NY 163: Void Mountain of the Nightless Temple (Game Over)

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VOTE: Metal Overlord

This is legit.

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Feel free to tell us who they are.

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Because town do also do it sometimes "for the lols" or "for reactions, derp". Which is why scum feel that they can get away with it and why it needs to be forcibly eradicated. I don't mind whether you call it a policy lynch or just a lynch if that makes you feel better but it is a pro-scum move that should be punished with a lynch.

ChannelDelibird, ChannelDelibird, it rhymes with ChannelDeliturd.

It's not as horribly anti-town as you're making it out to be. Are you one of those players that go "PL PL" over something meh like this instead of useless and/or consistently anti-town play as a whole?

It wasn't until your next post that you voted for yourself, which makes your self vote look like a self conscious attempt to not vote someone else.

Don't get this. Why is this true as a second post and not as a first post?

UNVOTE: VOTE: Bulbazak

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^I don't understand - your post reads sort of as though you're disagreeing with the Bulba lynch, yet you vote him.

Reek, the self vote wouldn't necessarily lead to theory discussion, had you not initiated it. Regardless, I think calling for a policy lynch is excessive.

I question some of the points brought up but vote bulba anyway, yes.

Where be your vote, O confused one?

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Oh, no, it was my bad. I looked at the votecount and didn't notice your vote.

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My next question was going to be how you expect scum to react to a town self-vote.

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I was talking from your PoV.

Are you calling me opportunistic on page 2?

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OtterHorse looks scum. Forcing heads to claim has always been something I've despised, and quite frankly, I don't think I've seen a town player ask for it. (Granted, it doesn't happen often.)

Why is scum more likely to do that?

BT's been bumped to null. The posts on page two aren't good, though overall I still think null-town.

What isn't good?

I agree with you on Marangal.

UA, AA9 voting for you is not a good reason to believe she is scum. That is null at best. And having played with her before, she is playing incredibly town here. I'm not sure how to feel about your read posts. They just feel off somehow. Suffice to say, I have a gut scum read of you.

How does it feel to be awkward?

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Deflection, gotcha.

On a serious note, it's like you sat down to construct that post before posting, though I guess it may be playstyle.

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Have you played with AA9 as scum?

What do you think of the concept of generating discussion? Do you think it is pro-town?

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I've played with AA9 as town, and she feels even more town in this game than in that one.

Do keep us updated.

I believe that discussion is very pro-town, but then you'd know that if you had read my meta.

There you go! That's one pro-town thing that came from my posts.

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UNVOTE: VOTE: Ms Marangal

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Human Destroyer, overall read of bulbazak? We're past the self-vote.

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Good read.

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Actually I'm dumb, that's instinctive.

I've played with AA9 as town, and she feels even more town in this game than in that one.

I'm leaning on this though.

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I don't see what's bad in the logic there. If you mean questioning bulb voters + voting bulb, it should be obvious that I wanted to put more pressure on the dude regardless. It paid off.

(Snark was a part of it. Plus, calling someone opportunistic for jumping on RVS wagons IS silly.)

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MO, comment on current events please.

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...You really need to wait to hear that?

MO, obviously, I'm talking about this page ~ last page. Your vote's still on HD.

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It's like you're doing your best to attract votes.

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Sure.

UNVOTE: VOTE: Keybladewielder

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I'd understand complaints about sheeping? If it was all I'm doing.

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Hmm.

Mastin, you never explained the Titan townread.

PEdit:

Bulbazak reads town -- already explained.
Lean town on you and TU (think overdoing it is more likely from town).
Ms Marangal's post seems like scum.
Not much else notable.

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We're talking about this one.

Calls "the votes" "icky", which is too general twice over. No actual confrontation. Reads like a spectator's comment.

PEdit: My reason is that I want to get a read on him. Bulbazak already nailed it.

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Gonna add anything to the discussion, towntell mcgee?

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The idea of a pressure vote is to apply pressure. How intimidating it is when a bunch of people suddenly think you're scum!

Though that's not going to work now.

UNVOTE: VOTE: Ms Marangal

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Its a hydra, not an alt.

Your stated reason (knowing activity) is absolute bullshit. As town and as scum equally, I have neglected posting as a hydra. Not for any strategic reason. Because I just plain didn't feel like posting in the hydra for that day, a luxury that I don't have as a normal player but as a hydra (with a partner covering for me) that I do.

So try again. What strategic value for town is there in knowing who's in a hydra?

Vote stays.

Hey look, you answered your own question. We can prod your sorry ass regardless of your alignment.

Heck. As a hydra, I've been lynched for my partner vanishing on me, and have even vanished on my partner before. As both town and scum. (At least one in the cursed hydra Palisade. No, seriously, read any game it was in; we had horrible luck. )
Head activity (i.e., which head is posting) has no relevance to alignment of the hydra.

It's not an ideal reason behind a lynch but it isn't a bad reason either. Knowing the heads of a hydra and which of the two heads is more active / commanding has plenty of meta-relevant convenience for the town. See: Hydra meta.

OtterHorse gave you a shortened version of this a post later. Whatever.

~*~

Marangal ignores my #149 despite skimming through the last seven pages. I like this vote a lot more now.

I also think the very weird #198 is coming from scum. Do you think Titan is town? Do you think Keybladewielder is scum?

~*~

What the fuck, Tammy? It's like that "this will be brief" line at the very beginning is mocking me. ANYWAY:

You reply to AA9's vote on you when such a vote doesn't exist so I'm going to assume it's a reply to Bulbazak. I don't like your way of dismissing that vote -- feels inappropriate to the state of the game. I'd expect a "discussion" to better read the slot instead of a straightfoward "you're wrong, stop it", which just reads purely defensive.

Your "kind of a towntell" on TU irks me because it's like you haven't thought about it hard enough -- scum can eliminate townies via lynches which is what I assume he meant. Considering this follows after a pretty good reason to suspect him ("reply to BT questioning me compared to Bulbazak voting me"), an ill-thought-out towntell to subdue that raises my brow.

Finally, unrelated to that post, Arthur was questioned about my meta earlier but simply ignored it. What's the motivation behind that?

To reply to your question, I don't think I've ever read you as town as soon as single-digit pages and TU was the only one to read you as town here IIRC, with at least one person suspecting your slot. Questioning them about it is natural. By the way, what makes you think you have a decent handle of my meta?

Another question -- what do you think of my reason for reading Bulbazak as town? I don't think I said it directly (only linked to the post): I questioned his meta read by asking if he played with scum!AA9 in the past. He had an option of admitting that it isn't a great meta read and I'm correct, or acknowledging my point but sticking to it anyway, both avenues for later backtracking that I have a hard time seeing scum NOT take. Instead he stated that he's only played with her as town but her play is even more town than before, which seems like a genuine response from a townie who is legitimately using meta to his aid. Him being new (I assume?) makes it much more likely that he'd have taken the easy option as scum. -- eh, this was before your stated town-lean on him, but feel free to answer anyway

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Reply to TU's post above: already explained. I voted Bulb to add pressure.

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Klick, @the crossed-out part, who else but Titan fell into this category?

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Marangal ignores a vote that's baseless, so? I could care less about what people think of me and if people think I'm scum, so be it but I would like reasons so I have the possibility of refuting it otherwise, I'll just do what I do and catch scum myself

Ignoring votes is generally beneficial to scum. If you thought it was baseless you could have easily said so instead of retroactively noting as much.

Your #198 is exaggerated. What "case" were you referring to?

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Who would you consider as "very townie", besides Titan?

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I'll get to this tomorrow.

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For now I'll just post this before reading the rest of page 10 and pages 11-15:



I don't like serrapaladin's #222 + #224. I feel like he has no reason to be as suspecting as he is (of OtterHorse and their Setup Ploy, Oh No), so much that I'd accuse him of throwing suspicion onto OH for not-good-enough reason. (considering this is his only stated reason for disliking OH)

~*~

It wasn't a slam dunk, hey this is a solid town tell, which is why I labeled it as kind of a town tell, and I did consider that. I spill a lot of my thoughts but don't always spill everything, and was interested in their response to my potential town tell and other people's. That interpretation is a small point in their favor, and I'd hoped that Mastin would react to it today when he posted, as there are issues I have with both of their heads at the moment.

I really don't see the towntell still though. In fact looking at it again it's more likely that he was in the mindset of general theory talk aka not-necessarily-talking-about-this-game-which-happens-to-be-nightless.

Because it's arthur? He probably missed it, and yes even though he quoted the very post it was asked in, he has a tendency to miss things or overlook them. As do I, but probably less than Arthur does. If you want a specific question answered, sometimes you just have to ask it again.

Still bothered me. Even some kind of hint that he registered the question would have sufficed, but, actually, thinking about it now, if he reads me as null and it was more of an earlygame thing, he MAY have chosen to ignore it due to reaction-fishing-related reasons. So yeah, okay.

As far as me thinking I have a handle on your meta, can we just postpone that answer? I don't *think* my answer will broach ongoing games territory but I'd rather not put it to the test.

Mmm, thought so, alright. My question was mostly due to *ongoing* as you might have possibly guessed.

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What's wrong with being suspicious of someone due to their call of a policy lynch?

I'm assuming this is for me? It isn't wrong, but it didn't seem like the suspicion was justified. He didn't address anything else about OH and didn't address anything else (though I haven't finished reading so he may have fixed this).

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Basically it looked like he had a biased point of view on OH's behavior solely because of the PL thing.

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No, he has done some other things. I suspect he clinged to the PL suggestion as a reason to paint the slot's actions as scum. This isn't even that strong and, again, I'm not done reading, but I guess I just want to make this clear.

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Ugh, sorry for saying I was reading and then pretty much walking off.

BT: why is it beneficial for scum to ignore votes on them?

Avoiding confrontation... all that comes with it. Letting the issue slip, not drawing more unneeded attention, not making anything worse. Possible especially when it's "baseless".

What's the purpose of this question? What's your read on Marangal?

OtterHorse: Why are you voting me?

You havent head claimed mainly (which as ive said, anti-town at best), but especially after your last couple posts are a decent scumpick independently of that as you are really more seeming to comment on KBW who is a hot topic of conversation but actually say nothing with respect to alignment.

You sound like you're convinced I'm town

, but that you want to be stubborn and vote me anyway, based solely on principle that you're not getting what you want.

Where does this come from?

I have never personally played with Active TAM at all. he does lurk quite a bit, though IMO, he does it harder, and more actively as scum then as town. then again, almost everything he does pings my radar soo....

And at time of posting you were leaning towards...? What kind of lurking is he displaying here?

I agree with Bulb that this is a really awkward post by Antilles.

Don't get your TUA townread at all. "Overdoing it is more likely from town" is pretty vague and bad. His reasons for scumreading both Arc

and

OtterHorse were literal shit. Why is he town?

Ms Marangal's post looks relatively normal for what I've seen from her. What makes it scummy?

I don't think his reasons were as "literal shit" as you're making them out to be and, well, I do think their overdoing things is a fine reason. Seemed like he was adamant about the suspicions and not how they look / whatever.

Answered a few posts later.

Post 268 by Key is bad.... Self meta and AtE? BTW AtE does not work on HD, he is kinda like a bulldog once he gets his teeth on something.

(Still ♥ you HD, but you do tend to be tenacious even when you are going down the wrong path).

Considering this is also some sort of AtE... "lol"

Marangal #275 is kind of filler except for a few reads that don't have anything backing them up anyway.

HD is most likely town, it feels like his usual towny blustering. As usual, he is wrong about me, but that happens in every game he assumes I am scum it seems like, so I am used to that.

2 games TAM and I were in I thought it was more? Open 472 (Pick Your Power), and Lover's Mafia. In both of those games TAM lurked something fierce.

I want some answers TAM.... Seems like you sometimes do not lurk?

That is correct. In fact, as I believe I said earlier, I have two metas.

epic lurking TAM, and epic Active TAM and sometimes a hybrid of the two.

My activity level is an unreliable tell as RachMarie just pointed out. The two games she listed? I'm scum in one, and town in the other.

So yeah, and please, try and use something other than my posts which clearly state that I'm trying to keep up and am confused for scumtells?

But instead of posting things like this you could be posting

something

of substance. You've clearly had time to catch up and this post means you're somewhat in tune with the thread so you have to have some sort of gut reads.

OH #282 pretty much includes two of my major thoughts in one post (Serra and TAM, exact same reasons). Lean town.

right now Pony, I'm watching and observing, I'll make comments when I feel best able too.

Well Mr. Two Meta, can you try and be super hyper active TAM for this game? Considering it's nightless vanilla. I think it's a good investment.

Do whatever it takes to stop these Dumbo's from mislynching us.

VOTE: Underachivers

Yup, ISO'ed everybody individually and found some stuff. But this little gem was my favorite.

What are your reads?

Marangal #317 wins the award for most forced post ever.

Some people don't wanna reveal their heads, bro, doesn't make them town or scum.

Meaning that your first reason is BS and half of your second is BS.

You need to stop worrying about him not claiming heads, its a secret hydra, who cares who the heads are? Just read him as he is, and if you find scumminess in his actions, then we'll lynch the fool.

You are all wrapped up in head claims and policy lynches, and I expect LOADS more from a hydra of two very intelligent people.

However, the rest of your case on Antilles is pretty compelling.

Watching From the Sidelines vibes here. "you guys are smarter than this, but uh I think I like your case anyway??" That kind of thing.

but... what about TAM? He's being just as detrimental to the game, and I actually feel that he's scummier then Antilles. at the very least, Antilles is giving reads and asking questions, TAM isn't even doing anything that can be remotely considered scum hunting. TAM's posts are absolutely terrible, and keeping him around makes me feel like shit

What about Antilles's reads and questions are good?

I kind of lean town on Rach #333. Cool number.

Another Marangal post with unexplained reads.

Disagree with Arthur here. OH is the one to make a fuss about it but then you have a bunch of other people telling them to stop and I think that's what zor meant there. I could see myself saying the same thing spontaneously.

Getting the same vibe from Robo again. He really does seem like a spectator here.

Marangal's explanation later on bugs me quite a bit. Bulb gut read from the very beginning of the game seemingly uncaring for the rest of his play, confident about Antilles having a CHK head, most if not all of the reads are gut feelings / waffles. There doesn't seem to be any scumhunting effort in here and it really reads like a classic weak reads list from scum. Feels like posting a read list for appeasement more than anything else too (bulb's request for read explanation only).

Dislike MO #370. Reads are weak in the same vein as Marangal's, nothing original, advocating a PL but at the same time directing it towards key and not TAM/Ant (why?), aware of their slot's issues.

Klick #378: Why is Marangal town? Why is Rach scum?

This probably would have looked better if I had done it immediately after the last post, but hey, it's my first day of spring break, and I did other stuff, I regret nothing.

Thank you for proving again that you're self aware. I also like how you think Ant is scummy yet in the former post you didn't want to PL him.

Fucking Hell despite him being my biggest scumread, I really want to vote HD just cause.

Even if you'd said it right (with townread over scumread, is what you meant obviously) this part is dumb as hell and is probably from scum putting *whatever* into their posts just because.

Mod, delete the second one, they're identical etc?

Also, as stated, I really don't plan on doing much this game, so hopefully this'll be enough to keep you from lynching MS? Thanks, and bye.

Have I said before that this protection of your slot is really bad? (different from the mastin/nero thing too because he was talking about himself? didn't read that bad too. this on the other hand...)

Because you townslipped.

Oh here we are. What if some of the scum are really inactive (makes sense acc. to the game) in the QT and that gave her the illusion that they're 4 people? I know this sounds like a stupid crack theory but it really doesn't seem that unlikely to me. Alternatively you could consider how artificial that post looks and call it a planned townslip though I don't think that suits the slot. (I could be wrong about impressions though)

I like how she's using your townslip claim to make you look bad by the way.

Arguing over a town slip? Yeah, MM is definitely town.

Town and scum are just about equally likely to do this. At least from experience. Depends on the player too.

Not impressed by Metal Overlord defense at #412.

So I do think Marangal is scum (TITAN this reminds me of Maenara from Mafiastuck after I'd already caught him and every one of his posts were meh and no one was listening to me) and I don't see the overflowing towniness from this towntell discussion. I think my vote will be better on MO though.

UNVOTE: VOTE: Metal Overlord

Antilles is also a good wagon but MO is worse.

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Do whatever it takes to stop these Dumbo's from mislynching us.

VOTE: Underachivers

Yup, ISO'ed everybody individually and found some stuff. But this little gem was my favorite.

What are your reads?

^ Answer this Robo.

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Yeah, remind me, were do I say that I don't want to policy lynch him? In fact, iirc, he's been listed as a possible PL by both heads. And on that, if I've gotten this correctly, Ant is supposed to be pretty competent, so wouldn't lack of activity be ground for a regular lynch and not a policy lynch? Well, whatever it is, I don't see a problem with lynching them, though it seems like more posts from them could make it better.

I'm talking about this:

I am strongly in favor of Policy lynches. To me, if you have the time for it, a policy lynch should be a way to hit the people who are hard to read, and who you wouldn't be able to tell normally. You eliminate them, provided nobody else seems to be scum more then them, on the off chance that they are scum. However, in this game, outside of Key, TAM, or Antilles, I don't see any options, and aside from Key, I don't think any options are really good.

Where you basically direct the PL. Makes everything worse when you direct it at the nonexistent dude over two

common scumreads

with

no explanation whatsoever

.

By the way, we don't know how competent Ant's slot is. They won't say who they are.

Thanks for not being a total ass and making something of the mistype. If it's any meta knowledge, me and HD came here from the same site, so know each other somewhat well. Also, isn't this total WIFOM? Anything that leads you to your conclusion, or just gut?

Nah, being all "I'm townreading this dude but I really want to vote him anyway" has 0 benefit for town because it just opens options / acts as a derailer, which means it's more likely to come from scum, like I said.

Forgive my ignorance, but were do I say this is meant to be protection? Unless I missed it, it was just me saying that I hadn't planned on playing this game. Also, if you dislike my writing style, well, I'll actually agree with you there. If you mean because of the content, then how so?

I think you're using MS's existence as an excuse to overdefend your slot. Not to mention it's an attempt at making people go easy on you, but yeah.

Also, you say you're not impressed with the defense, how so?

It reads like, well, a defense, where a pure defense is expected to come from scum. You prioritize making your slot look better / keeping MS from being lynched over scumhunting. In #412, just like in your reply to me right now, it's important for you to relieve all suspicion from your slot by correcting every little detail possible and without confronting people that much.

As for voting me, I'm curious, what do you hope to gain from it? Actual lynch, in which case how to you justify this slot, which has at least given something to go off of, over ones which have done nothing or next to nothing? And if it's simply for pressure, well, k, gl with that.

Are you hopeful that I'm only trying to pressure you? That's cringe-worthy. I think you're scum and you're reading the justification.

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Wait, what head is this? Is this the head who replied to HD?

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Basically how do you feel about HD finding you scummy if you two know eachother? You're KX, right? It's kind of funny that you barely replied to HD's post that called out all of your posts but it's so important for you to address everything Bulb and I say.

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IN FACT most of your reply is saying "blah blah MS is bad" when he finds both your posts bad.

This is so easy.

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What's the "stuff" you found, though? That's mostly what I was getting at.

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@mod, I'm replacing out. Sorry to do this when you're already looking for a few.