NY 159: RUST game over

[Cheery Dog]

Wow. Miller claim already.

Seems legit. BC=Obvtown

.

I was mostly commenting on how he was claiming miller in first post, and that's like one of two schools of thought on how to play Miller. But it was so to the letter it was just kind of funny.

I also wasn't sure if it was a legit claim or not.

These two posts do not equate.

This.
VOTE: zabriel

[Cheery Dog]

I worded the line poorly i guess. I probably should have put a

comma

right after together, making it read as such:
"The only thing that

i have done

that would make people believe that Zab and I are on a scum team together,

is if

we had pre-game talk and came up with this huge ass gambit about me claiming miller. "

Have you done it or not?

the bolded is the problem in that sentence.

[Cheery Dog]

If it was a pregame chat gambit, you wouldn't have planned this far ahead.

I feel it's more likely a gambit you decided to try yourself without talking to your team. but then we may be overthinking the miller claim, since a large theme ended recently (and nominated for a scummie) in which a miller claim made endgame.

[Cheery Dog]

two miller claims in one game.. wtf

[Cheery Dog]

Comparing my reaction to another game which i haven't read is poor imo.

but if you had read it you wouldn't be making the same reaction?
While it's not a useful tool since it's not the same person that is having the reaction, if you had read it then you probably wouldn't have that reaction if you are scum. (actually I don;t know what I've talking about, but that defence is bad)

In my point of view, both claims are true. It's too much of a coincidence for BC

to fakeclaim before I did

. So if I somehow flip, then BC will be confirmed town miller. Voting for him is stupid, unless you think we are both fakeclaiming. Will reread and make reads later.

Thanks for just admitting you fakeclaimed, that makes it so much easier for me to decide which one of the miller claims I'm down for lynching.

VOTE: Malpascp

[Cheery Dog]

Blood's reaction to the Malp Miller claim was less than spectacular. If you claim a role (other than VT), chances are good you ARE that role, and if you are, you know that the new claim is a lie. Blood's reaction was a:

Most VT claims I've seen have come from VTs, so why is that an exception?
yes most scum claims are also VTs, but there is in general more VTs than scum in any one game.

Rob is Town. I still think both Millers should disappear from the Town before Lylo and lynch them on-site should they survive till Lylo. But I feel better about BC being Town now that I have kind-of caught up.
Hopefully PMysterious gets replaced as well and stuff.

While they shouldn't get free passes through LYLO, I don't think everyone else should be getting free passes through LYLO instead of them, given that scum may not nightkill them for WIFOM purposes.

If I flip town, then it means that BC claimed miller when another one existed, and I think it would be too much of a coincidence for scum to claim exactly that when another miller existed. Not that hard to understand. In my point of view, BC is confirmed town.

There is still a point that he may have fakeclaimed miller without knowing there was an actual miller in the game and also you hadn't read the thread, meaning you fakeclaiming it there would also have no knowledge another miller existed.
Neither of you are cleared at the present time and neither of you will be cleared when/if the other flips.

[Cheery Dog]

There's going to be uncertainty anyway, that's what this game does for us

[Cheery Dog]

I'm not seeing why Darthe needs more votes, calling someone out for flailing means they are scummy how?

[Cheery Dog]

I've fairly sure I did the exact same thing when I voted malp, although malp never fixed what he had said, so I'm just wondering, does that also make me suspect?

[Cheery Dog]

Read the second miller claim again. If he had read the first miller claim before posting, wouldn't there be an acknowledgement to it in the post?
Looks to me like he just opened to a reply box to say he existed.

Spoiler: if you're too lazy to find it yourself

Hi there. Hungover.
Claim: miller.
will read later today, and I guess RVS is already over.

[Cheery Dog]

The same chance as a game without a miller where a scum claims miller.

[Cheery Dog]

@Rob13 It's not the exact same, just similar in that it was likely to have been missing a word or two.

In my point of view, both claims are true. It's too much of a coincidence for BC

to fakeclaim before I did

. So if I somehow flip, then BC will be confirmed town miller. Voting for him is stupid, unless you think we are both fakeclaiming. Will reread and make reads later.

Thanks for just admitting you fakeclaimed, that makes it so much easier for me to decide which one of the miller claims I'm down for lynching.

VOTE: Malpascp

[Cheery Dog]

I just looked from Demon Core's ISO, and holy shit. How did I manage to miss some of that while reading the game. I may have to read some other ISOs as well.

UNVOTE: malp
VOTE: Demon Core

[Cheery Dog]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: drmyshotgun

[Cheery Dog]

We're 5 days into the game, which is less that halfway through this phase, why are you so eager to to finish the day?
and why do you want a pile of dead bodies?

[Cheery Dog]

I ask because I want to know more about it. Your response has given me hope that it is right.

It's a scumtell because town doesn't want dead bodies to be piling up, we'd much rather just have the mafia's bodies and all the innocents still alive.

[Cheery Dog]

Cheery, I want you to take a step back and seriously ask yourself "Would drmyshotgun openly admit to wanting lots of people dead if he were scum?" Think about it. Acknowledge your completion of this task by voting for someone that isn't town.

I only have one person I know to be town (myself), so therefore I may be voting someone now that isn't town.
also WIFOM.

@drmyshotgun (383 which I can't be bothered quoting), yes.

[Cheery Dog]

393* if my pressing the wrong number confuses anyone.
*end usless ebwodp*

[Cheery Dog]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Demon Core

back to this vote, it has a much better chance than drmy for flipping scum.

I'm not seeing CKD as scum but the rest of Rob's list looks quite possible to me.

[Cheery Dog]

anyone can look scummy when you read them in ISO. You can always nit-pick and misinterpret shit.

You are agreeing though since your vote just went that direction

Though you are correct that just an ISO leads to confirmation bias.

[Cheery Dog]

And with players like PMysterious (still around?) in the game, I'm most certainly not comfortable with a player sitting on L-1.

PM is being replaced as of 407, so we should be fine with that aspect.

and that claim claim out too fast and angry for my liking

[Cheery Dog]

or vanilla townie, but then that's not actually a counterclaim unless you know there is only one VT in game, but then that would be role madness.

[Cheery Dog]

If Demon=cop, scum is Rob, zab, Josh at least

Why Rob?

[Cheery Dog]

Interesting.
Useless post I know, but I can't think straight lying down.

Massclaiming should not happen any more than it already has, we still have 12 people who have not claimed, and I believe it is best to keep it that way for now.

[Cheery Dog]

I was going to come vote BC and be happy to lynch a

miller

today, but Darthe has stepped the over the line with that post (705) and voting just for competing wagons doesn't sound like a very good choice for a voteplacement.

but then again I just looked back at the votecounts, I do have to wonder why he would have been bussing two of his partners during day 1. (zab all day and then DC with the hammer for

information

)

I think I'd be fine with either of those two for today, but I'm going to go ahead and
VOTE: BloodConvenent

[Cheery Dog]

If he is one of the people taz saw visiting zab, I could definitely see him being a SK.

[Cheery Dog]

@Darthe This game has slowed sligthly since it's start, but I wouldn't label it as slow. Slow games are those that don't get any posts in them for 12 hours or more in my opinion.
I guess it only has 7 main posters (with over 50 posts each) while everyone else is taking the slow road though.

I don't believe that Angry is scum because of that, but it does overflow into lowing the amount of scumminess you have given.

[Cheery Dog]

I didn't say they were related, I guess I just responded in the wrong order.
I was originally just going to post that I didn't feel the game was slow (though the other game you've mentioned would be very fast), but then rofl ninja'd me, and I thought I can give thoughts on that part of your post as well so that it's more ontopic.

I'm still good with lynching one of the

millers

today, or do they need investigated by a gunsmith power if we have one?

[Cheery Dog]

That plan sounds good to me.

UNVOTE: bc
VOTE: darthe

[Cheery Dog]

UNVOTE: darthe
VOTE: blood

back to lynching the

miller

then.

I also don't like Prohawk's new post at all.

[Cheery Dog]

Look at his reaction against Taz. Taz gave him the easiest out possible if he was lying. He restated it many times. Darthe stuck to his guns and was adamant that Taz was lying, despite Taz being confirmed town.

If Taz was still claiming to be a watcher, and had in fact reaction tested the rest of us by saying a name that didn't visit zab, then this is a good sign.
The reaction test has only proved that Darthe isn't a SK, which seeing that only one person died, and has now been claimed to have been done by a cleared player claiming vig, suggests to me there isn't a SK in this game, unless they're playing hide their killing ability night 1.

It's still possible to that Darthe is mafia - I doubt this - and didn't vote because he knew Taz was town.

[Cheery Dog]

I believe Rob was trying to see if there was only the one VT in this game.

This would be a bad idea and practically mean we'd all have to massclaim, which I stated earlier, shouldn't happen today.

[Cheery Dog]

Who has actually stated he was a legitimate lynch today?
I don't recall reading anyone saying that, well maybe PP since he voted that direction.

I know I said I didn't like a post, but not as far as saying he was a legit lynch. I'm currently only willing to go blood, darthe was included earlier as possible SK, but that's been proven to be false via reactions.
There isn't currently anyone else I think would be a good choice for today's lynch.
Tomorrow will depend on how many scum we still have left if any.

We really need Paid Pyro, Josh L and other inactives to be posting somewhat more though, I feel there's possbly a scum hiding down there.

[Cheery Dog]

And my Cheery red-flags are not Day 2 stuff, Darthe. They are Day 1 things. Specifically how he seems to leap on the smallest typos and messed-up words as legitimate reasons to vote and lynch. It's very opportunistic. I don't like it at all.

I was thinking we were going to lynch a miller day 1, malp's typos there told me I should go on that one - though overall since then I've found Malp more town than Blood.

As for the drmy vote, I didn't expect that to go anywhere, I basically did it to confirm some my town reads to make sure I wasn't joining a scumlead wagon.
-------------------------------
Also you two, get back to the game!

[Cheery Dog]

I just looked from Demon Core's ISO, and holy shit. How did I manage to miss some of that while reading the game. I may have to read some other ISOs as well.

UNVOTE: malp
VOTE: Demon Core

Was Cheery Dog implying he missed something that someone else didn't miss?

Sounds like it. You'd have to ask him what it was.
In terms of counter wagon to Zab though, why not lynch Darthe who was at 2 votes instead of making Demon up to 2 votes? (This is assuming Darthe=town, Cheery=scum).

Conversely, as soon as Drmy joins the Demon wagon(384), Cherry votes him instead (387).

I had basically ignored DC's posts while reading them, the fact someone (rob) got me to look at his ISO enabled me to see what I had missed by looking there.
(damn you people always posting the most pages while I sleep)

UNVOTE: darthe
VOTE: blood

back to lynching the

miller

then.

I also don't like Prohawk's new post at all.

I don't like this post at all. There are two miller claims, you seem certain i'm the only one? Cherry+Mal as remaining scum?

Your interactions with zab are telling me you are the one more likely to be lying.
Malp's only talk is WIFOM bullshit with practically no interactions with anyone - I'd like to see them die as well, but I feel more town from him than you because of interactions.

[Cheery Dog]

Spoiler:

Wow. Miller claim already. Seems legit. BC=Obvtown.

if zab had simply said "miller claim. bc=obvtown" i would have thought nothing of this post. but no, its "wow," its "already," and it "seems legit," which makes zab "seem way too excited" to either already know who he doesn't have to nightkill, or be pushing his buddies millerclaim through to the town list (still too early to tell which, but we will kill you before too long too and find out, don't worry)

or you may have just outed the cop.

why would Zabtown "distance" himself from someone he doesnt know is scum?

why would anything BC(you)town do "implicate" Zab?

these two terms are not sitting right with me.

waiting on an answer from Zab

also

unvote

The only thing that i have done that would make people believe that Zab and I are on a scum team together is if we had pre-game talk and came up with this huge ass gambit about me claiming miller. On page 1, Zab's post was sketchy enough for Roflcopter to deduce that Zab's is scum. He believes that Zab's flip flop implies that I am scum as well, as scum wouldn't want another player of theirs in the hotseat.

Zab is distancing himself from me because i'm basically poison.... if that makes any sense.

unvote, vote: zabriel

don't want to split the vote between two people i think are scum. we will get bloodcovenant tomorrow.

The order doesn't truthfully matter, as long as we get BC tomorrow.

BC's actions implicated Zab as much as himself.

Unvote:
Vote: Zabriel

It's actually impossible to scum hunt when under fire. People just say you're trying to shake off suspicion and they won't take you seriously. I'm complacent with dying at the moment.

Fine, then.

Let's say the mod gave you a day vig shot that you had to use right now. Who would you use it on and why?

(Fun fact: BC's vote is still on Tazaro)

Honestly, i'd probably shoot ROFL, as i feel his case on me is very aggressive and poor.

As for voting, who am i going to pressure? Zab? that's going to make me look awful. Vote some other random that isn't a lynch candidate. naw. If it comes down to it, sure i'll vote zab.

Two miller claims. Seems legit. We should believe both of them.

Jesus. I'm going to have to put trollface on every post I make. I'm pretty sure at least one of the miller claims is completely full of shit. Honestly I thought the first Miller claim was a joke until everybody went so apeshit over it. Guy comes in and jokeclaims in first post, and then we throw shit around until something sticks and one of us is dead.

Two miller claims. Seems legit. We should believe both of them.

Jesus. I'm going to have to put trollface on every post I make. I'm pretty sure at least one of the miller claims is completely full of shit. Honestly I thought the first Miller claim was a joke until everybody went so apeshit over it. Guy comes in and jokeclaims in first post, and then we throw shit around until something sticks and one of us is dead.

From a third person point of view, i'm willing to believe two miller claims to an extent. Mine is definitely less gambity.

@BC: Rofl is kind of drifting into the null-town region of my reads. Shoot CKD

Darthe is town.

Did mal just CC BC's miller claim?

DemonCore is still scum.

2 miller claims. Right. Ok. I bet my lucky oldschool 5$ bill that they are both true. Takers?

VOTE: Demon Core

I wouldn't even consider it a counter claim. And yeah, i'm thinking he might be town too. If Mal posted more, that might help.

this Zab lynch is too fucking easy...a wagon built up on him based on a sarcastic remark?

bullshit.

AP I am curious, am I still scum when/if he flips town? I would like to know before the day ends?

I got called out for Appeal to fear for this kind of post. I'm pulling that card out against you now.

I am totally going to vote for someone on the Zab wagon.
BUT WHO?

fucking worthless post.

BC is town.

Right now Dcore/CKD are the obvious team. CKD's "Am I scum regardless of the Zab flip" solidifies that connection although Zabriel hasn't done enough to warrant the lynch compared to these 2.

P-edit: BC isn't flipping scum and you are.

who are you going after when i flip town?

another appeal to fear

way to dodge all the fucking questions.

if BC flips scum, am I scum?

do you really think BC wasnt being dodgy?

why is that so hard to answer?

appeal to fear.


PeregrineV is townnnnn

fos: angrypidgeon

no there are not two millers in this game. and your entire "catchup" spiel reeks of bullshit. bc is not town. zab is not town. they are today and tomorrow's lynches, in either order.

This post feels like it comes from a player with extra information.

Dear everyone not voting one of the claimed millers:

1) Link to game with two millers
2) A vote for BC or malp (preferably BC)

or STFU

FoS CKD and AP for obfuscating the point and cluttering the thread with stupid bullshit when we pretty much have a guaranteed scum sitting right in front of us.

why is Mal's Miller claim any more legitimate than mine? that makes no sense and there is no reasoning at all.

Your last line is awful as fuck. You're calling out players for creating discussion and giving us information. That's fucking awful town play.

unvote:
Vote: Demon Core

---

I dont know if this is correct. I have never been in a game with two millers...never heard of a game with two millers.

tbh a deathnote game with two millers wouldn't really surprise me, but i'm surprised it's in a mini, instead of a large themed game.

Yeah.
I'd love to see both of them go down.
They must not survive until the Lylo at the very least.

What happens if you lynch me and i flip town? do you go right after Mal then? or do you let him slide by? how does that work?

DC is not getting lynched unless a CC comes up.

According to Rofl, only scum want a CC to hunt out Power roles.

all he's doing is trying to draw out the counterclaim because he is scum going down in flames on day one its exactly what i would do if i were in his position

Drmy is enabling a CC right? scum motive?

i'd rather no one cc because that is the most obvious fakeclaim i've ever seen, and he hasn't in posted in how long but he's keenly aware that he's being wagoned enough to appear from thin air while we're all online doing it? do not buy it.

You

asked me to claim in the latest post...

Scum response. Happy with lynch.
Hammer away.

Bussing from scum drmy to scum demon core. amirite ROFL?

#appealToROFL.

unvote:
Vote: Drmyshotgun

I'm now hating mal's miller claim. I'm wary of

any

miller claim (scum just make themselves cop immune for no reason), but if I got a miller role PM and someone else claimed miller, it would take a lot of convincing for me to not park my vote on that person.

Short and sweet reads (will "elaborate" on request for a specific one)

town: AP, rofl, rob13, darthe, prohawk, CKD (yes, I flip-flopped)
???: Cheery dog (more on this one later), BC (actual play made me change my mind; still hate the miller claim)
scum: Tazaro (talk about someone making WTF votes and then disappearing), malp

Withholding my vote for very, very good reason. If anyone hammers before the next vote count, I will rage.

These interactions.
I would go into more detail at such, but I see no point when you have already been lynched and we're in twilight.

[Cheery Dog]

So you want me vigged twice?

I'm not bulletproof

[Cheery Dog]

Tazaro, that crazy bastard. He drew the NK as essentially a VT. RIP

Now, moving on, I have a third ability that I previously didn't disclose. This is why I asked for a doc-protect last night. My third 1-shot ability is Gunsmith. Would you care to explain my result mal?

I have a mod-confirmed guilty on roflcopter

VOTE: roflcopter
I will not say anything else about my role.

I haven't fully caught up yet will all the posting you lot did while I was asleep, but I'm going to come out now and clear AP.

I am in fact a 1 shot gunsmith, I was going to use it on the millers, however I didn't want to waste a shot when going why what had been posted I assumed they were going to be vigged.

[Cheery Dog]

opps I forgot I multiquoted those two before and continued to read.

and AP doesn't have a gun to be clear.

and can we stop all this fakeclaiming as town please.

[Cheery Dog]

It's scummy because you have CKD as a town read yet voted him.

(I don't recall reading angry's post, I must have skipped that one, but I did read yours as a scummy post.)

Offtopic, but how am I meant to do preedits when they should up as being on my ignore list in preview mode?

[Cheery Dog]

You listed AP as your scumread of the two at first, then went sheeping others.

This was before I cleared AP as being an idiotic town fakeclaimer, and therefore both were vaible lynch options for today when you posted.

[Cheery Dog]

If I hadn't received results that pointed oaway from AP being scum, I probably would have been voting AP today because of his lie, and if he had actually claimed cop I would have had to assume he was a serial killer.

[Cheery Dog]

If I hadn't received results that pointed oaway from AP being scum, I probably would have been voting AP today because of his lie, and if he had actually claimed cop I would have had to assume he was a serial killer.

You do realize that no-gun leaves SK possibility alive?

Yes, however I don't see it as likely since we've only had 1 kill each night, one of which was a vig shot, I also don't see a SK claiming guilty on someone since that wouldn't help their win condition if the person concerned were to flip town.

[Cheery Dog]

I think paid pyro claimed vt yesterday

Which means it's just pere and josh still to claim

[Cheery Dog]

VOTE: ckd

I'm convinced, the lol fake ham
mer looks like it came from everybody else's refusal to unvote

[Cheery Dog]

The rundown of todays pages are that this town seems to like fake claiming

[Cheery Dog]

Well if you're an infolynch, can we work out what the information we would gain from you flipping town while you're still alive?

@malp, the only conftown we have alive currently (unless someone else has stuff) is Angry who I cleared night 2 and posted about yesterday.

I have varying townreads on all players, except paid pyro and Josh.
Given that Josh hasn't logged on since he made that post at the end of day 2.

VOTE: Paid Pyro

[Cheery Dog]

Maybe I'm wrong about this, but what do you feel about this:

Assuming one scum is left and Josh hasn't logged in since Day 2, we can conclude he is town because someone sent in the NK.

That is the reasoning I produced for why I voted Paid Pyro out of the two.

I'm not seeing rofl scum from his day 1 play, his reaction straight away to DC's claim was

vote: demon core

hammer it

Although the unvote on L-1 before the claim was also weird.

[Cheery Dog]

I can't give town points for people because they have made catch up posts, while it does look useful, my vote is going to stay for the moment.

I'll probably check ISOs to make sure I havent missed anyone's elses scumminess though.

[Cheery Dog]

At a look at Rob's too targets, I'd be much happy with a malp lynch than a darthe lynch.

[Cheery Dog]

I'm going to hope Josh Lyman is actually able to catch up, so no I'm not going to vote there yet, although it is quite possible malp is our last scum, I'd rather let everyone in the town talk more (especially those lurkers)

[Cheery Dog]

You want the [*spoiler=][/*spoiler] tags

(that one is now even more annoying to read that just the quotes themselves)

[Cheery Dog]

Cheery, why wait for lurkers. You are just sitting back yourself two opinion post today and nothing else. What going on with your iso work? Also if you are happy with a malp vote why me over him?

Because I want input from them.
I also want to have a longer game today, as otherwise I'm going to draw a blank if we fail to get scum today. My vote on you however is now being useless.

unvote

[Cheery Dog]

Unvote

Not because my opinion of mal has changed (it hasn't), but because I don't want the day to end early. Let's get some inactives in here!

I thought you were happy to have him have been put onto L-1 yesterday, just not hammered, what happened to that theory?

[Cheery Dog]

That's why we're waiting for more content from him.

[Cheery Dog]

Just looking at a balance perspective here with what has been claimed/revealed, I've decided I don't feel like waiting anymore.

DemonCore - Mafia Goon
zabriel - Mafia Doctor
curiouskarmadog - Mafia Jack-Of-All-Trades (Tracker/JK)

BloodCovenent - Town Miller
drmyshotgun - Town Doctor
PeregrineV - Town Vanilla
Tazaro - Town 1-Shot Vigilante

Cheery Dog - 1-Shot Gunsmith
malpascp - Miller
Darthe - Vanilla
ProHawk - Vanilla
roflcopter - Jack-Of-All-Trades (1-Shot Bullerproof/1-Shot Roleblock)
Paid Pyro - Vanilla
AngryPidgeon - Vanilla (confirmed town by me)
TheReverend -

Miller

Vanilla (he did jokingly claim miller first)
Rob13 - Jack-Of-All-Trades (1-Shot Cop/1-shot Vigilante)

Josh Lyman - Unclaimed.

We therefore have apparently Mafia JOAT/Doctor/Goon/unknown vs Miller/Doctor/2xJOAT/2x1-Shot.

I am seriously doubting that there's two millers with only one cop shot and a mafia doctor which wouldn't have shown to be having a gun with my gunsmith.
I guess what Josh's role actually is may or may not change this.

VOTE: Malpascp

If it is something else, I'm actually now leaning TheReverend for the other scum because his vanilla claim was the only one that followed the layout of VT role in the opening post.

But otherwise the other options are the other vanillas that don't have a negative gunsmith result on them.
(paid pyro, prohawk, darthe and possibly Josh)

[Cheery Dog]

People I at least mostly think are town at this point:
Darthe
Rofl
Josh

I thought you were calling rofl and darthe possible scum earlier today, what changed?

[Cheery Dog]

because this is a social game?

Social games kind of need to be social...

[Cheery Dog]

cheery, I gotta be honest I'm not following you. Your logic is flawed by virtue of me being town, but since I can't follow your logic I can't really show you why it's flawed.

I do not know for certain that you are town, the only things any of us can know for certain (besides our own roles, which are capable of being lied about) are:

The roles and alignments of people that have flipped.
That Rob used a vig shot last night.
That Angry does not have a gun.

The logic that malp is not a miller actually relies on Josh's role. Since we're not actually that power heavy a town (since all we know is that there was a full doctor and a claimed bunch of 1-shots) Two of those 1-shots were weakened by the miller(s?) and a mafia-doctor which leaves the only 1-shots still at full power being a roleblock and two vigs (which were also weakened in strength by the inclusion of the above roles) I feel like that there is either something missing from the town power supply, or we have a fakeclaimed miller.

Outside of suspecting malp and heading towards you, my logic is that you had to check the opening post to claim your role instead of a role pm, most VTs will remember their role, but might not notice that it said "Town Vanilla" instead of the usual "Vanilla Townie", or have just associated the words together to become VT, which is what the rest claimed.

I will admit it is possibly bad logic as it makes a assumptions that you as scum wanted to be right on the money with your fakeclaim by looking at the opening post before you claimed, the none of people who had the town vanilla role checked either the first post or their role pms before claiming and that all the power roles claims still alive are from town.

[Cheery Dog]

Spoiler: Sample Role PM

Town Vanilla!

During the day you can choose to vote to Lynch or No-Lynch.

Win Condition = All threats to town eliminated.

Spoiler: Darthe's Claim

Or, and this one is crazy, I am VT and you're all sheeping the PC.

Spoiler: ProHawk's Claim

@ Rob13 - I am VT which also confirms CKD's claim of me not targeting anyone.

Spoiler: Paid Pyro's Claim

Hapless VT by the way. I find it odd we have so many PR's and Prohawk claimed VT fairly late.

PeregrineV never claimed, but talked about VT's a few times.

Spoiler: AngryPigeon's Claim

I would like to point out that rofl said his role titlw was Jack of all Trades and not Town Jack of all Trades. I asked him to specifically claim the role title. Mine says Town Vanilla. I find it very unlikely his ACTUALLY says Town JoaT and he decided to just exclude it when asked to quote it.

Spoiler: TheReverend's Claim

HAHAHAHAHA joke guys I'm vanilla.

and now I retract my argument because I never checked what Angry claimed when I made that post yesterday. (because he was confirmed to be without a gun I forgot to look)
This means you're now just bunched together with the other VTs

[Cheery Dog]

I should mention two things. One, the watcher who said I did something to San is lying because I'm vanilla . Two, this train is forced as fuck.

Just gonna point out this was my role claim

well damn my "ctrl+F VT" skills which made me think your post after was, still I failed by not looking at angry's ISO when I did that post, but it doesn't matter since the miller has to go first. (unless there is a super power role in Josh's slot)

[Cheery Dog]

What, no lynch yet? You guys must really love me.

I believe we're waiting on what chance there is of being a miller by way of the last player coming and claiming. (which requires a replacement, and then presumably a read up by them and whatever else a replacement wants to do)
But yeah we're able to love you for a bit I guess before we toss you with your dead scumbuddies.

[Cheery Dog]

My vote is on malp because a second miller doesn't make sense with the claims that have happened. I'll remove it if you have a role that makes a second miller make sense.

Also based on the wording of malp's miller claim, I'm not convinced he had seen BC's claim before posting his own.

[Cheery Dog]

MY role pm definitely states I'm a town 1-shot gunsmith.
I didn't choose what my role was.

[Cheery Dog]

and as town (which according to you I'm not* I'm meant to go
"ohh wait my role pm actually says I';m a vt and a big fat liar"?

The only other defence of my role I have is that fact I used it to clear Angry.

[Cheery Dog]

Rob claimed first.

Spoiler: here

I am Jack-of-all-Trades. One-shot cop, one-shot vig. One-shot cop is used already on Tazaro, clearing him. One-shot vig will be used tonight to prevent me dying without using it. Because of my role, I doubt there is another vig. I don't see how it would balance. I think an SK is likely.

[Cheery Dog]

Spoiler: and for reference

because i am a jack of all trades and one of my abilities is

1-shot bulletproof

[Cheery Dog]

I used it on him because out of the people I felt weren't likely to be vigged, he was at that stage reading the most scummy to me.
As both you and Taz claimed to have vig shots going into night 2, I wasn't going to check up on any of your likely targets, which I felt were either the remaining miller or one of the lurkers.

Had I known you weren't actually going to vig anyone that night and that tax was actually only a 1-shot vig, I would have used it on Malp, and same with why I never used it night one.

Day two I softclaimed with this question, trying to see how likely we were to have them vigged, and since the only reaction I got was from you calling any gunsmith an idiot for not doing so night 1, I discounted keeping the shot to use on a miller if they were still alive during night 3 when all the vig shots would have been used.

I'm still good with lynching one of the

millers

today, or do they need investigated by a gunsmith power if we have one?

I think the choice of Angry was also influenced by rofl's readlist at the end of day 2.

[Cheery Dog]

We don't need to worry about lynching mal right now, because he'll be our lynch tomorrow if we're still around by then. He won't make it to LyLo due to his claim and general scumminess. No reason to waste a lynch today on someone we'll get tomorrow or the day after for sure (definitely before LyLo). We can get a lot more information by lynching someone else who's scummy.

Vote Darthe

For reasons stated earlier and general scumminess.

we can also vote darte another day, which should a miller-claimed scumbag have to wait a few days?

[Cheery Dog]

Cheery, why didn't you use your 1-shot ability on Night 1 to check out a miller?

as the talk in the thread had been to have them vigged. Since I only had the one shot, I didn't want to risk warding it on someone that may have died during that night.
Given that there were vig claims day 2, this carried on in my mind for night 2.
However I still wanted to have used it by that time.

[Cheery Dog]

I wasn't one of the first on dc, I went there after rob, I think, said look at his iso, which I did and found mostly scummy.

@rob, how would my result give me an easy mislynch on ap? - he was an easy mislynch after his fake guilty claim - just look at ckd still trying to push it before his flip.
before ap had admitted he was fake claiming, and I was catching up on a busy start to the day, I was going to be using my result to stop rofl from being wrongly lynched because of a fake cop claim.
Me outing my result then (which I would have had you all not talked ski much while I was asleep, would have prevented a scum me from getting 2 free mislynches - this does not compote with a scum win con.

[Cheery Dog]

Wiki says"The Gunsmith is an information role that can target a player at Night to learn if they have a gun in flavor. Members of the Mafia (that are not Doctors),

Cops

, FBI Agents, Vigilantes, other Gunsmiths, Paranoid Gun Owners, etc. all have guns in traditional flavor. Notably, Serial Killers and Doctors do not have guns."

I didn't use it night 1 because I wanted to know what was happening with the miller scenario - at that stage I wanted to use it on one of the millers, but since I felt that it was likely that there would be a vig shot on one of them based on the talk at the end of day 1, I didn't want to take the risk.
Day two had two people claim they were going to vig someone that night, so I thought that one of them would be taking out the other miller after we lynched BC, so I changed my mind about wanting to use it on a miller.

Compared to others that were obvtown, Angry was not obvtown enough (even if you think he was) that he would have been likely to received the kill that night (he was the actually the scummiest player that I could see had no chance of being vigged, so I decided to use it on him)

[Cheery Dog]

I will compromise on malp

You're voting me currently, malp is the wagon I'm on, I see a big problem if you're compromising from voting me onto the wagon I'm voting.
I'm also not going to move from this wagon, unless forced to by needing a lynch by deadline.

I'm still not seeing darthe as a member of the mafia, which means since he avoided the sk trap from taz, leads me to believe he is town.

[Cheery Dog]

No player with 1-shot anything doesn't use it on Night 1, unless he's vig. If they're NK'd or lynched, their one power is wasted.

I don't believe it.

Let's hang Cheery.

We lynched scum day 1, as a minor player in that lynch, I felt it was safe to not use it night 1, yes I could have been killed or lynched, but since at that stage my thoughts of who to use it on were both vigging options, I thought leaving it for one night would be a safer option.
If I was nightkilled night 1, it would still have been a worthless power.

[Cheery Dog]

If you believe it makes sense, can you put it into your words please, because I'm agog as to how it makes me scum.

[Cheery Dog]

It's a 1 shot power, not a "must use on first night" power. I'm sorry if you think I should have used it differently. Guess what, people can have different ideas for using their one shot powers.

[Cheery Dog]

Just because we're in front now doesn't mean it's a guaranteed win. No I'm not going to just let you lynch the only person I know that has no chance whatsoever of being what we're looking for with today's flip.
You'd be more likely to get me to cave in on my result's clear than myself.

[Cheery Dog]

Just one fewer townie, right? No big deal, don't you think?

UNLESS YOU'RE THE LAST SCUM. Then it's a big deal.

so you would be fine if I joined the wagon Angry is trying to lead?

[Cheery Dog]

Also, DGB, a one-shot power night 2 is not impossible. It depends on Cheery's meta for that. I personally use one-shot powers night one on a very rare basis. I only do it if town looks to be ahead OR if I've made myself a huge target for scum. Otherwise, I save it until I have a good target to use it for (while aiming to use it by Night 3, latest). At the same time, using specifically a gunsmith on night 2 with two claimed millers - now that is sketchy because he has the most clear targets possible right in front of him. Even if they are potential vig targets, the potential town gain from using that ability is significantly more than the potential town loss if they're both investigated and vig'd, as gunsmith isn't a great PR anyway considering that it can out vigs and cops. I certainly would have played gunsmith much differently going into Night 1. I would have investigated mal for sure (he had the least content at the time and therefore the more difficult read among the two millers). I would assume most people would have done that as well. If you are town, Cheery, your choice of night actions was incredibly poor.

Day 1 was ending with lots of "vig the millers", I figured that one of the people shouting that probably was actually a miller. (well one of the people saying to doctor you was a doctor who doctored you, so there was quite the possibility)
You then never actually said who you were going to target nor did Taz, and both of you claimed to have a vig shot to use using night 2, since there was still a option of that targeting the remaining miller claim, I never went there either. Had Taz not actually lied about how many shots he had, I probably would have used it on malp night 2.
In the end I decided to use it on Angry, and for some reason he decided to go out a fake guilty, I did not know that was coming, but clearing town doing stupid moves means my night actions worked out fine.

My meta with one shots before this game is micro 17, where I was a 1-shot delayed cop, which I used on night 1. (to get a result night 2) Given that this game has double the amount of players (-1), and ZI didn't think I was a likely nightkill target or lynch for the next day, I held off using it straight away.
I feel stupid not having brought up gunsmiths on day one to make sure I had a clear shot at them, but my target dying is as much a waste of a 1-shot as myself dying.
Had I been a full gunsmith I would have definitely targeted the millers, but 1-shot and what appeared in the thread to be calls for having them vigged, I decided not to.
You can call my actions stupid all you like, but your own night action which was able to clear a miller by killing them was also not used on said millers.

When there are people trying to direct actions in the thread, and said actions are not stupid ideas, then as someone who is generally sitting at the back of the pack, such as myself, is likely to believe said ideas are going to happen if possible. I would much rather people didn't try to direct others actions, as then I wouldn't have the possibility of another actions ruining my own thought processes.

[Cheery Dog]

Is there any way to ISO people together? Like make a timeline of all posts from four people in the game? Not sure if you can.

You can do three people at once by pressing the the + button next to where you choose an individual to ISO. (unless you're doing it the other way which isn't directly under the reply box)

I've given my reasons why I didn't use it night 1, yes due to how it turns out, not using it night 1 was a mistake, but at the time I saw it as too high a risk to take.

[Cheery Dog]

@DGB why should I believe you to be scum just because you brought a bad idea forward? I had produced a town read on your predator which was pretty strong based on his activity levels. Although that doesn't actually confirm your slot to be town, I feel that it does indicate that you shouldn't be todays lynch .

And you've actually brought up some good points as to why I could be scum now - pity I interacted with the last scum, otherwise we could have caught them based of who I never interacted with wait your slot is the last one I interacted with right? Maybe you are scum after all.
I'm still convinced it's malp, I can't see this game balanced with two milers. The one we know to be a true miller wouldn't have claimed had malp claimed first; if that happened, it wouldn't have even been possible g to have them both vigged.

[Cheery Dog]

bus'd 2/3 DGB, not 1/3

I'd bus 3/3, myself, if I felt they deserved it

number 2 scum was vigged, it's hard to be able to be on the lynching wagon of someone that got vigged :p

[Cheery Dog]

When you are the last scum, this makes zero sense.

That would be because I'm not the last scum, nor scum at all for the matter.

[Cheery Dog]

How the hell did the same people who came to the conclusion that the town had too few power roles to be balanced also come to the conclusion that one of our power riles must therefore be scum?

They didn't.
Unless you're talking about me concluding that malp is scum and you count miller as a power role. Millers are negative powers and are thus a anti-power role, therefore they are scum.

We may be all part of the same town, but that doesn't mean we all conclude our balance specs the same way.

[Cheery Dog]

Cheery is town and should feel town.

I don't think that meme works in that fashion.

I'm not seeing it being DGB, I although I may go have a browse around Josh's meta to see if he is always "needs catchup" lurk heavy to see if that can sway me. But I can't see DGB's posts actually coming from scum.

I'm still also unsure about Darthe. looking at his iso, I can only see 966 as being scum motivated with the correction of removing CKD from his acceptable vigging list.

and the "info lynch" hammer of Dcore still stands out as an antinomy, I'm still not sure what that means.

Just looked at the votecounts posted to see if they were lined up with my read and apparently there were no scum on the BC wagon.

BloodCovenent (8) -

drmyshotgun

, Darthe,

PeregrineV

, roflcopter,

Rob13

,

Tazaro

, Cheery Dog, TheReverend

[Cheery Dog]

Josh meta got nowhere, his last completed game was 3 years ago. (although he was more active before being replaced in those I don't trust it) and I can't really get much out of his 6 posts in reverse mafia redux where he was scum.

I'm good with maybe switching to ProHawk, I can at least see him being scum from his ISO. (him being apparently roleblocked by scum doesn't mean much in way of clearing him)

[Cheery Dog]

Bad dgb, bad!

malp or ph tomorrow
followed by reverend the day after if you still haven't won.
And paid pyro at some stage a well I guess.

Also a minor possibility of angry being a sk that somehow knew I targeted him.

[Cheery Dog]

You wouldn't be getting my vote on darthe as it is, I still fail to find whatever is making him as obvscum as you say.
Although I did feel the same way about ckd, but I could see scum intent from his actions and when he still wanted to lynch ap after it was confirmed he had no him, he was an obvious choice.

[Cheery Dog]

I wasn't aware I was a death miller.
How did that get past the normality check?

[Cheery Dog]

yes, I'm aware CKD played until the end.
He then flips scum and we ditched his useless reads which even if he had been town we still wouldn't have followed today.

If I flip scum you can ditch my reads as well (or ditch them anyway because I've been lynched and was basically sheeping the obvtown all game).
I do know you're going to be going into to night now anyway. You can WIFOM all the fuck you want with my posts during twilight, but it'll just paint a bad picture of you come tomorrow.

[Cheery Dog]

If I hadn't investigated angry I would have been for lynching him day 3.

And we should have gone off the bc wagon after I posted it. I know I didn't have faith since I've seen a whole town wagon happen before where scum has been attempted to be found.

[Cheery Dog]

I still don't even know how Darthe was meant to have been scum.

[Cheery Dog]

your welcome and thank you

i thought the gunsmith should know that investigating a miller would return a 'doesn't have gun' result but i couldn't figure out how to tell that without giving away that there was miller in the setup. it would've confirmed at least one person.

I did figure they would return a not have a gun result.
I asked to see if you were on the same page, as I have seen some mods list milers as being guilty to gunsmiths.
And then I decided not to use it on one anyway.