NY Mafia 155 - New Age Mafia II - Game Over!

[Knight of Cydonia]

S'up. Anyone care to give me a brief update while I read up? I see my predecessor already claimed, but anything salient other than that?

[Knight of Cydonia]

Oh, bugger.

Unvote

Starting my read now.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Okay, as with all reads I do when I replace in, my thoughts are very, very likely to change throughout the course of the reading, since I'm basically speed-playing 2.5 days of Mafia. This is probably also going to end up being a bit of a wall, so reader beware. However, if JD's (slightly hypocritical) comments are to be believed, this game could use a kick up the arse.

Nhammen killing (or trying to kill) the RVS in post 7 of the first page is hilarious. Almost as hilarious as how badly it evidently backfired on him. Interesting is the early posting from Rhinox, which does the same thing:

So I claim now right?

VOTE: Tierce

confirm vote: agar

stalling scum

---------------------

For serious though, I'm not liking umoms complaining about a slow start while not doing anything to fix it, while also complaining about something that actually *could* speed up the start of the game (aka the agar wagon)

unvote, vote umoms

oh I can probly change my sig now huh

For all the joking "lol I confirm my vote on Agar :shades: :yolo:" stuff, he's still doing his damnedest to create rather tenuous cases to call back to and kill RVS like nhammen did. JD's #40 brings up another good point about this post:

For serious though, I'm not liking umoms complaining about a slow start while not doing anything to fix it, while also complaining about something that actually *could* speed up the start of the game (aka the agar wagon)

unvote, vote umoms

oh I can probly change my sig now huh

Can you clarify your logic a bit where you seem to be saying that he did nothing to change the slow start despite complaining about it while drawing attention to something that would speed up the start of the game? It seems a bit like you're accusing him of not bringing attention to something while bringing attention to that same thing.

This early Tierce wagon explains why my predecessor in this slot used his role so early... though I really wish he hadn't, Gunsmith can be a lot more useful later on.

redFF and nhammen both leap on umoms for "stifling discussion" by... asking a question that invited an answer. Hrm.
Holy shit this umoms wagon built up fast. But then again, it apparently leads to people spotting what a scummy piece of crap nhammen is, so...

Yeah... I was gonna say, if it was a reaction test, umoms failed.

What exactly am I supposed to be reacting to? I couldn't really give less of a shit about a page 3 lolynch wagon.

A good start might be to actually address the reasons people think you're scummy.

Yes, because so many reasons had been given on page four.
umoms' 94 sums up how I feel about Rhinox at this point.

ut just vote umoms.

I'm redFF. I'm...

helping

nice omgus

Ladies and gentlemen, the most overused term in all of MS history: OMGUS.
OMGUS does not include votes that actually have a reason behind them. The only people who think that are bad players and scum who are ignoring it.

It was anything but 'pack mentality'.

1) It's ridiculously fun.
2) It's useful.

A quicklynch threat on D1 catches players off-guard. It generates reactions that can be studied later with a couple of flips And I would

definitely

have hammered that wagon if he had been at L-1 by the time of my vote; among other things, analyzing who came after me on D2 would be gold.

Analyzing who came after you on D2 would be a big pile of shit and get you nowhere. I hope you're not actually serious.

Agreed with Quag here. A sensible town would almost certainly not have been "analyzing who came after you" they'd have either put it down as you being a VI/MI and made sure you didn't get to endgame, or they'd have quicklynched

you

D2 as well and then put you down as a VI/MI.

Tierce's insistence on this whole "D1 quicklynches are good, honest u guise" both explains why Shea used the one-shot on her, and makes me incredibly hesitant to put any kind of weight behind the result.
Flameaxe's hop onto the RedFF wagon is terrible. Agreed with JD at this point that stupidity =/= a scumtell.

OH MAN. Tierce wagon or nhammen wagon. BOTH SO GOOD.

But nhammen is bigger.

Vote: nhammen

Umoms wagon is stupid as shut and I'm glad it's dying. I don't get the nammen hate, you know what I'd really like? A dead tierce with drench fries

Why can't I hold all this solid reasoning and logi-oh wait

nhammen's 139 would have had me crashing down on him like a ton of bricks and I am very glad he didn't get away with this horse shit.

I pretty much always have scumreads on people with nhammen's playstyle but not here.
Tierce may or may not be scum.

unvote
Vote: tierce

everything else seems largely irrelevant.

Disregarding meta for the sake of hopping on the counter-wagon. K. (spoilers - admitting you're doing it doesn't make it okay)

I didn't say that third vote is always or usually a wagon vote. But there is a better expectation for it to be one than for a second vote. I have seen random voting before, and you can check my wiki if you want to see previous games. But, I believe that random voting and asking questions was strictly better than just random voting alone, so I asked the questions that were available for me to ask. In any case, there was no casting of aspersion, subtly or not.

Okay, I don't think I'm ever going to get this, but if you think it was some great play I guess I'm cool with it.
It does sound more like an attempt to seem town than an genuine question, though.
And I agree with others that your jump on the umoms wagon looked ridiculous.

"I don't get this so I'm gonna let it slide instead of working it out" is something no townie with 2 functional braincells has ever posted.
Jesus Christ Tierce you are a horrible D1 player. I hope you get better soon because FUCK ME this is painful to read.

that is absolutely beside the point.

you didn't have a problem with Rhinox until other people did.

I can't be suspicious of someone if someone else is suspicious of him?

The problem is that you seem to be suspicious only

because

someone else was suspicious.

- Rhinox does a thing.
- You post, showing clear awareness that Rhinox has done this thing, and no suspicion of him for doing it.
- Other people post, saying that the thing Rhinox did was suspicious.
- You post again, and

now

you're suspicious of the thing that Rhinox did.

Why did it take so long for you to realise that what Rhinox did was supicious?

YES. YES. THIS. SO MUCH. This is what makes me worry a little about the Rhinox wagon from what I've read so far; I can't tell if Rhinox is just being bussed (which seems hella unlikely with us 2 for 2 on lynches) or redFF is a straight-up moron.

@iaun
I don't really remember how I felt towards Rhinox when I made post 99, though it was definitely his posting on the next page that made me think more about him, so no I wouldn't say I was suspicious of him around post 99. You're putting words in my mouse and trying to get an wagon going on "easy pray" now that people are calling you out for lurking.

This makes no sense and was adequately answered in #188 - of all the "easy prey" to go after why would iama go for redFF.
Huge townpoints to Glork for calling for a mass-claim given the effectiveness it's had so far. Not sure why he would have suggested it any earlier than this (re: Staeg #199). Staeg has kinda been floating along in this game hasn't he.

Forgot to include on the last post: And the fact that I can't read Glork at all means I'd totally be down with wagoning him.

This is a bad post and you should feel bad.

unvote
Vote: Simenon

Just... floating along... doing nothing of use...

nhammen voting redFF for jumping on the same wagon as him with almost as little reasoning is funny. As is the fact that he insisted on referring to JD's UT summonings as "interesting" and only committing to calling it "somewhat scummy" behaviour without feeling the need to actually analyze what UT was posting. This whole post in light of UT/singer's flip reads like heavy distancing.

As for the idea of a D1 massclaim itself, I can see how it could help greatly, although I am a little uneasy about it because I've never been in a game where it's been done. The reason we usually don't massclaim is because it would give the scums a roadmap for who to kill, right? Then in low power games, scum can take out PRs easy, and turn this into mountainous. In high power games, it allows town to easily catch scum and break the game open. Is this all correct so far? If so, then massclaim is a bit of a gamble on how much power the town has, right?

This is scummy.

"...but I have no intention of pointing out how it is scummy"

Neighbor with an additional ability (my neighbor doesnt know about my extra ability by the way). I really don't think I should claim it though.

Popcorn umoms

This is not a claim, this is a "here's a part-claim, but there's more to come if you're good boys and girls and don't lynch me, teehee~"

antiprod, etc

Should we expect some substance with the antiprod soon?

sure, we should lynch tierce, I have no fucking idea why sjhe is still alive

Aditionally, rhynox should get dayvigged or killed int he night or whatever because he is as well as scum

Koffing needs to live to engame. As well as umoms and quillford. They are all town.

I dont care about massclaiming. I just want to lych fuckign scum so hurry up, etc

...Are you even trying?
Please tell me you aren't trying because on the basis of what little you've posted so far I refuse to allow you near endgame.

At this point, that fact that Rhinox withheld

any

information about his role with the inevitable intention of using this unclaimed "extra power" to dodge a lynch if it occurs makes me want to vote him already, even if he at some point later in this readthrough claims this extra power.

Oh wait

Wow whatever its not like i can even draw a nk at this point anyways. I'm factional bulletproof. I can't be nk'd by mafia. I can be lynched or vigged or killed by any faction other than mafia if they exist but idk if that means there are for sure multi factions or not.

Fos glork (+others? On phone too lazy to go look) for starting massclaim and calling for a lynch before completing the massclaim.

Actually who am i voting? Redff? Eh doesnt matter

unvote vote glork

Okay, let's go over all the reasons this post is horrible:
- "Mafia-NK bulletproof" is a terrible role and an incredibly scummy claim because it is devised to make the town go look for a second scumteam (or a Serial Killer, or what-the-fuck-ever else you can think of) and drop attention from the claimant
- There is no reason whatsoever for a townie to be safe from anything but other townies
- "I can be

lynched or killed or vigged

by anyone but Mafia" - this makes absolutely no sense: bulletproofs don't magically gain lynch invulnerability the moment a single scum steps on the wagon, if they did it would make LyLo with this role virtually impossible to win for scum
At this point I'm going to stop this read here because I can see this post is getting long as fuck and I'm going to provisionally

Vote: Rhinox

, take a break in case anyone wants to actually read all this and react, and then come back to this from P12 onwards. Also anyone who doesn't want to lynch someone "to keep people who are actually playing the game" (hi JD, Quag) are being big sillies. I also would not be averse to any of the other main lynches being proposed (scooby, Flameaxe, redFF) at this point but would prefer Rhinox based on what I've read thus far.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I will be around from 12pm BST (7pm EST) and will hammer either of the Rhinox or Flameaxe wagons based on my current read, which I will finish overnight.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Alright, let's do this shit.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Alright, fuck it.

Unvote; Vote: Flameaxe

If this day ends on a no-lynch, look at anyone not on Flame/Rhinox wagons very, very hard.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Vote: Rhinox

[Knight of Cydonia]

I tend to get really disinterested really quickly in any game that becomes "scum must be in this pool, lynch all of these until we win"

I suspect I am not alone here

[Knight of Cydonia]

Here's a list of where we're at with claims and strategy. Let me know if I missed something.

Living (12/19)
1. Hoopla [VT]
2. Glork [VT, neighbor with Rhinox]
3. Quagmire [one-shot gunsmith]
4. Tierce [VT]
6. Bella [Innocent Child]
7. Rhinox [neighbor, mafia-nk-immune]
9. scooby [VT]
11. AGar [one-shot Vig]
13. Knight of Cydonia [one-shot gunsmith]
14. redFF [VT]
16. MichelSableheart [VT]
19. JDodge [VT]

That's 7 VTs out of 12, with maximum of 3 mafia left. I'm inclined to think the innocent results from the gunsmiths (Hoopla and - embarrassing - I forgot?) should be last on the list, as well as the Staeg roleblock on scooby.

Tierce.

[Knight of Cydonia]

If Glork is scum, the longer we let him live, the more of a threat he becomes. A Glorkscum with 3-4 left in LYLO is a recipe for disaster. He also pushed for the massclaim D1, which I guess I was the only who thought was a scum-motivated move at the time. We'd really be in the hole if Psyche didn't get that guilty on singer.

My massclaim directly netted us one scum (nham saying "I claim") and indirectly caught us the other scum (singer's refusal to claim leading to the investigation on her). If I'm scum, I literally threw the game away on D1.

Anyway, reading this when I get home tonight. I promise. No matter what.

Or you were banking on getting townpoints from asking for a mass-claim and knew that at least one of your buddies was already "cleared".

[Knight of Cydonia]

@KoC: What's your opinion on Rhinox' claim? You've been voting him for most of the day, but have never commented on something that in my opinion is a major towntell for him. I believe your vote would be better placed elsewhere, preferably on red.

My opinion of his claim should be evident from the fact I am voting for him.

[Knight of Cydonia]

@KoC: From your vote, I understand that you disbelieve Rhinox' claim, but I don't understand why. What is the benefit for Rhinox scum to claim bulletproof to mafia neighbour over normal neighbour? Why do you believe that's the case, rather then him being a pro-town player who is actually bulletproof to mafia?

@Hoopla: fair enough. As long as we refrain from lynching Scooby and Rhinox, we should be fine lynching me. Only if it is decided to lynch them both as well do we run the risk of running out of mislynches.

Why are you constantly asking questions of other people instead of actually doing anything useful?
Claiming "bulletproof to Mafia" is the problem. It suggests that the town has something other than the Mafia to worry about (i.e. a Serial Killer) and I believe it was intended to muddy the waters and prevent proper scum-hunting.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Yes, a townie who can only be killed by a vig is a great idea.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Whatever works, I guess.

Vote: RedFF

[Knight of Cydonia]

Care to explain, or are you just going to throw it out there and hope shit sticks?

[Knight of Cydonia]

Alright. Fine. The faster you lynch me, the faster you actually go catch scum?
If that's how it has to be, then let's get it out of the way, shall we?

Unvote; Vote Knight of Cydonia

And gods help you mod if you claim this is playing against my win con.

[Knight of Cydonia]

2 max.

[Knight of Cydonia]

No extraneous lynch mechanics, closed setup, but no scum PRs flipped... probably their 1 PR is left alive.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Now that Glork has shut the fuck up:

unvote

Anyone who thinks that lynching a claimed PR instead of from the VT pool is a good idea is an idiot or scum.
The fact that Glork is:
a) A claimed VT
and
b) not an idiot
have him pinging my radar massively.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Part of me really wans to make a case against Quagmire, but:
A) I'm lazy as fuck;
B) It'll probably just get me lynched, and then nobody will go back and heed my words after I'm dead.

I just wanted to post this for posterity, though.

"It'll get me lynched so I won't try it" is not a pro-town mentality unless you're afraid your case is so shit it'll fall apart on first inspection.
Your obsession with trying to lynch PRs is, again, noted.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Part of me really wans to make a case against Quagmire, but:
A) I'm lazy as fuck;
B) It'll probably just get me lynched, and then nobody will go back and heed my words after I'm dead.

I just wanted to post this for posterity, though.

"It'll get me lynched so I won't try it" is not a pro-town mentality unless you're afraid your case is so shit it'll fall apart on first inspection.
Your obsession with trying to lynch PRs is, again, noted.

ITT, KoC misses the point entirely. I would have no problem making the case and getting lyched for it if I thought it would convince a majority of the town that Quag is scum.

ITT, Glork continues to miss the point. If you think Quag is scum, you must have a pretty good case. If you have a pretty good case, you'd make it regardless of the consequences. The fact that you refuse to even state that case means:
a) it's a bad case
b) you're worried about being lynched for some reason
Combined with the fact you're in the pool of people we should be lynching from, but are constantly pushing on PRs for no real reason...

[Knight of Cydonia]

Vote: scooby

Good enough for me.

[Knight of Cydonia]

So you're proposing scooby is scum AND is bussing

his last buddy

when there are so many town players to go about, redFF?

Get real. If scooby is scum, Rhinox is really obvtown.

WAIT, LAST BUDDY?

VOTE: TIERCE

4 scum in a 19 player game isn't far-fetched, though maybe on the weak side. This isn't a slip. Don't try and paint it thus.

[Knight of Cydonia]

KoC was the first gunsmith claim. I forgot that, and it makes him pretty likely town unless he and Quag are gambitting together.

I'm sure as shit not doing anything with Quag.
Sorry for being away, chemo is a bitch and I don't trust myself to make rational posts in games during it.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Mmm, I could buy either of the neighbours as scum, tbh, and there's a theory rolling around in my head based on nothing that says they're actually the scum team together. I'd take Glorkscum over Rhinoxscum at the moment, though.

And yet, you're happy to vote for the same wagon as "Glorkscum".

[Knight of Cydonia]

Mmm,

I could buy either of the neighbours as scum

, tbh, and there's a theory rolling around in my head based on nothing that says they're actually the scum team together.

I'd take Glorkscum over Rhinoxscum

at the moment, though.

Emphasis mine. See my point?

[Knight of Cydonia]

I mean, when I flip pro-town gunsmith, you'll all look pretty foolish, and then someone will posit that KoC is the scum one, and people will try to lynch him, and he won't object because he's busy too, and the town will lose. The more I see this shitty case develop, the more I think it's Glork, with a last-ditch effort to try to mislynch and interrupt the game.

Gee, how unsurprising.

[Knight of Cydonia]

CES is doing precisely what town-Quag said would happen when he flipped. At this point he's either scum taking refuge in audacity, or a fucking idiot - and CES is not an idiot.
Only issue I have is that Rhinox/RedFF clusterfuck going on either side of my name - something about that whole MAD seems off to me.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Balance. Scum power grows quadratically in the amount of members and you need a silly amount of power to countenance 5 scum in a 19p game.

My question is: should we No Lynch?

My answer is: we should lynch KoC.

Still waiting for a proper case other than the one Quag literally predicted just before you lynched him.

[Knight of Cydonia]

KoC, why aren't you voting CES if all you've done today is take little potshots at him about "what Quag said" would happen. It sounds suspiciously like you're trying to drum up suspicion on him in a premeditated fashion without actually committing yourself.

Who is MOST likely to be scum? Who's second most likely? How's my scums are left?

You or CES. Dead heat. One of you.

Vote: CES

[Knight of Cydonia]

Gorram idiots.

[Knight of Cydonia]

This is so stupid.

UNVOTE: Glork
VOTE: Knight of Cydonia

"This is so stupid... but I'm gonna do it anyway!"
Never reproduce.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I told you it was CES
but nooooooo, let's let him do EXACTLY WHAT QUAG SAID HE WOULD