NY 151: Playground Mafia (Game Over-Mafia Win!)

[Kublai Khan]

...Oh, wait. Khan Man.
So much for me being logical.

confirming

[Kublai Khan]

Even a fool, when he holds his peace, is counted wise: and he that shuts his lips is esteemed a man of understanding. (Proverbs 17:28, King James Version)

[Kublai Khan]

KK are you town?

Was Jesus Jewish?

I'm starting to wonder if there's a point to having an open thread confirmation stage. We have our role PMs, either dam the river or open the floodgates.

[Kublai Khan]

mastin2 could be town. Time will tell. I'm in no rush to lynch him. He'll slip up later if he's scum.

Nero Cain, drmyshotgun, & Maxous are earlytown.

Candy Corn Vampire has some bad mojo going on. Not a fan of vijay2vasandani either.

P. Edit - Good feelings on HezLucky. He's wrong though.

[Kublai Khan]

@Junpei - Why encourage mastin2 to be less forthcoming with his thoughts?

@Nero Cain - Can you seriously not provide a single game example to back up your argument that drmyshottyizsik is a VI? Why are you deflecting the burden of proof on someone else after you made the argument?

@Lady Lambdadelta - All my early reads are purely gut. When I read their posts I made an instant judgement on call as to whether the it read ginuwine or if it seemed calculated. It's also very possible to believe someone is town even if you disagree with them.

Do you want more elaboration than that?

@rack - what's your read on Nero Cain?

@Candy Corn Vampire - Why is rack scummiest at the moment?

[Kublai Khan]

Noodle strategy, esp boring noodle strategy. These questions don't really need answers and more amount to him trying to think of things to say rather that saying things he thinks needed to be said. Rack, are you an alt? and alt of who?

Oh, okay. Taking you off the scumlist then.

[Kublai Khan]

Pine... You know better. There is scum motivation in avoiding posting content until you see where other players stand on issues. scooby is deserving of the pressure that The Mini-Librarian is trying to exert.

Also, rack needs to answer NihilisticNinja's questions. He picked up on the same thing I did.

btw - The Mini-Librarian and NihilisticNinja are town. True story.

[Kublai Khan]

@Pine -
What should The Mini-Librarian do? Threaten him with the comfy chair? The pillow with all the stuffing pushed into the corner?

Hyperbole isn't a new thing in mafia, so I'm confused as to why you're acting so unfamiliar with it.

Whatever you think, scooby definitely ain't deserving of the defense you're volunteering.

@Nero Cain -
You made the argumentum ad populum that drmyshottyizsik is a "well-known VI", then tried to shift the burden of prooving your own assertion onto NihilisticNinja who seems legitimately confused by your behavior. And so am I. If anyone is drawing out the argument and making it "tedious and a distraction" it's you. You are acting scummy and shifty for no concievable reason. I looked up and found a game with both you and drmyshottyizsik in 2 minutes, why can't you?

[Kublai Khan]

he could have looked it up.

Mongolians are psychic and I know you're scum. We'll just take that as truth until you do the research which proves me wrong.
---

@KK: The elaboration you gave is fine, but I do note that I never said that you couldn't find someone town and disagree with their reads. (As shown above, I agree that this IS possible. Rather, I wanted to know WHY this was the case for you.)

Check back. I had called Nero Cain as earlytown and HezLucky called him scum. So I said that I had good feelings about HezLucky, but disagreed with him.

Also @Lady Lambdadelta - I was town in the only Metropolis game I played. Not sure where your twinge might be coming from.
---
@redFF - Day 1 non-deadline policy lynches are bullshit. You should have WOTC during the signup. Also, who is the bigger VI: drmyshottyizsik or drmyshotgun?
---

Fuck these idtiots that think that posting a lot means you are town

Nobody has made that argument.

Also, if you're read/skimmed that people suspect you, then why haven't you posted any content yet?
---
@drmyshotgun - Why are you complaining about spam by triple posting?

[Kublai Khan]

@KK: Weren't you the DaySK in that game that decimated everyone?

That was Magua. I was the doctor who stupidly protected him for half the game.

[Kublai Khan]

@mastin2 - *low whistle* A two-parter analysis and you've only covered my first 3 posts. Impressive as always.

For those unknowning of the meta between me and mastin2 (and/or just skimmed his post), I've been mastin2's nemesis. Dating back to when mastin2 was just Mastin, I have been scum in every single game that we happen to have been together in (6 now, I think).

I knew his "Khan is scum" tunnel was coming and there's nothing I could really do to avoid it. He's willing to interpret anything as scummy because that what he wants to find. Of course, he's ignoring the observer effect problem of the whole thing. Am I saying stuff just to appear town? Not conciously, but maybe unconciously so. Like that wikipedia link a couple of sentences ago. I've done that as scum in a game with mastin2 before, so is it a scumtell? Not really. I do it regardless of alignment. But based on his biased sample size of my play, he'll undoubtedly consider it one.

mastin2 has only ever seen facets of my scumgame, so that's why I get a 2-part dissertation on how devious I am. (The Best SK meat cleaver award that'll appear under my name probably won't help at all either.) And comments like "Was Jesus Jewish?" being WIFOM-analyzed. It's not a super-scummy cryptic way of... wait, I don't even know why/how crypticness is scummy, but that's beside the point.

I won't really confront mastin2 directly, because there's no point. He's looking for arguments to fit his conclusion. But he does have a really good analytical mind when it comes to observing interactions and if he's town I'd like to harness it. So I'm going to make a request of him. I'd like him to compile two sets of analysis. One being his normal one where he considers me scum based on out-of-game statistics, and another one where he pretends my name is "randomnewuserguy" and reads the game in a more neutral fashion. I know it's more work, but could this be done?

[Kublai Khan]

Having people screaming for a person's death when they haven't actually entered the game yet is a big pet peeve of mine. It pisses me off. If they've engaged with the game, and are withholding significant content (like Rack) then I condone it. All Scooby had done to that point was confirm, and people were ready to lynch him. What the fuck?

Not people - one person. You over-reacted to that.
And @Firestarter - WTF? For someone who dissected the game as such as your game notes show, how are you so obvlious to the situation you've called me on? Here's the play-by-play:

Spoiler: play-by-play

93 - scooby confirms
96&99 - Khan posts (no mention of scooby)
106 - The Mini-Librarian: "I also would like scooby to die."
107 - Pine: That seems unreasonable.
108 - Candy Corn Vampire: "wow tml."
109 - The Mini-Librarian: How could he ignore content?
113 - Candy Corn Vampire thinks The Mini-Librarian is over-selling reads
114 - Pine agrees
117 - The Mini-Librarian sees scum motivation in scooby's actions.
118 - Pine disagrees, vehemently even.
119 - Kublai Khan: "There is scum motivation in avoiding posting content until you see where other players stand on issues. scooby is deserving of the pressure that The Mini-Librarian is trying to exert."
121 - Pine: "he's deserving of pressure. Not of "NEEDS TO DIE NOW"."
123 - Kublai Khan: "Whatever you think, scooby definitely ain't deserving of the defense you're volunteering."
125 - The Mini-Librarian: "What other means of pressure do I have besides calling for his death? Would you have liked it better if I said something more of the lines of "scooby is scum" or "scooby needs to explain himself"?"

WHOLE THING GETS DROPPED. UNTIL -

176 - scooby: "I am town btw

Fuck these idtiots that think that posting a lot means you are town

Ill post after fucking my GF"

(Note: scooby has officially been fucking his GF for 1 day, 4 hours, and 5 minutes straight as of this post! Way to go! Hope you're using lube and definitely consult a doctor afterwards!)

186 - Kublai Khan: You still having posted content despite the fact that you're obviously reading the game enough to skim for your name.
211 - Maxous calls out Pine for defending scooby
217 - Pine responds, massively over-stating the danger that scooby was in.

The biggest thing of note is that The Mini-Librarian is the only person to call for scooby's death. And he did so 5 pages into the game. I backed up The Mini-Librarian because prodding someone for content is a perfectly valid scum-hunting technique. Pine, scooby, and now you have all accused "people" of trying to lynch scooby for merely making a confirmation post. There's a lot of misrepping going on.

I could get behind a Firestarter wagon. His analysis is a mess. Though drmyshotgun, rack, and Nero Cain need some serious ropage as well.

Hmm..

Vote: Firestarter

-- I'll start here.

[Kublai Khan]

unvote: Firestarter

Vote: rack

Changed my mind. Firestarter isn't going anywhere and likely doesn't need pressure to answer questions. However I think that rack should be bandwagonned so that he posts and explains himself instead of his "I'm going to vanish now until Head B takes over". If we take him to near lynch then we'll get him to start posting again.

Also, Psyche is really annoying and scummy. His "go ISO Maxous and look at how scummy he is" reeks of a strategy of starting a nowhere-going wagon so he can look busy without strongly commenting on anything at all. HezLucky is also making a lot of noise but isn't being productive. Same goes to jasonT1981.

[Kublai Khan]

@drmyshotgun -

Why would you

You know what? Nevermind. I'm just going to ignore you until you're dead. You're the second worst mafia player I've ever seen. Please confine yourself to the newbie queue from now on until you know what the fuck you're doing. (Hint: Don't roleclaim for no fucking reason).

I understand that you disagree with the naysayers about TML's premature call on scooby scum, but the extent you are going to defend someone of what should be unknown alignment is a bit much for me. TML is perfectly capable of answering for himself, and I am unsure why you feel it necessary to be in this argument.

The extent? Two posts as back & forth posts banter done within the span of.. less than an hour. Then two tangently-related posts later on where I call out people for misrepping me. [sarcasm]Yeah, I've totally got The Mini-Librarian's back in this game[/sarcasm]

Why am I not allowed to call out Pine on what I consider strange (possibly scummy) behavior? Would you prefer I stay silent and not answer anything until directly addresses?

I don't know if this is due to my headache or not, but I looked at his post over and over again to see what he exactly called you out on. He said that he agreed with pine, but he has you under a town read for thinking like him otherwise. Can you tell me what you mean?
The problem I have with the post though still stands. The original play by play was obviously extraneous, so what does that make your correction? To me it feels like you were undermining him rather than correcting him.

My main problem with Firestarter is that his read on the situation is completely wrong. For as carefully as he's claiming he's read the game, he's exhibiting very poor reading comprehension. I don't care that he has me under a town read, my problem is that he's implying that I'm being hypocritical and inconsistent in my views ("Where was the pressure on me?") when I'm not. The play-by-play was to clearly explain that I am not being in the least bit inconsistent and my "stance" on scooby is nothing like what he preported it to be.

If anything, you would call Firestarter a shameless sheeper rather than messy with his analysis. I believe all of his scum reads were recycled from other parts of the thread. Such as the nero cain part from you, the drmyshotgun from Ninja, and the rack part from me.
Can you explain exactly what you meant by your statement then?

It's a mess. It's no good. It's not accurate. It's inept. It bears the resemblance of someone putting effort in, but it's really poorly done and rather self-conciously trying to push forth an agenda. I don't really know how to answer your question as I think you're just trying to create busywork for me.

I have no problem with the rack vote, but instead your reasoning for jumping off. You hadn't even attempted to question him on his reads, or make points on him other than a vote. So what makes you think he doesn't need pressure? Or could you articulate your change of mind of better? I have some idea why, but I'd like to hear it from you.

Because I've played with Firestarter in the past. He's not a spammer. He posts about once a day (or sometimes less) in a deliberate fashion. I've registered my discontent with his content and he'll address it later. Thus I am freed to pursue a pressure wagon on rack.

Other reasons I have picked you out first is your attack on nero and a little bit of what I accused rack of. In post 186 you say you know nero is scum. However you haven't pursued this in 6 pages. I also hardly see how it's scummy to not have proof when it comes to policy lynching. Nero obviously is a bit of a less rational player so his reactions were a bit odd, but I see no need to pursue what had been already verified by several sources. The other part is picking a lot of targets with weak accusations, looking for the worst reaction. It doesn't have to be a scum strategy, but it's one I like to do as scum, so I recognize when other people are doing it.

Nero Cain is on my back-burner. His early behavior in this game is freaky-odd and I'm undecided on how to fully classify him. Nero Cain-scum could have easily just pointed to a game he was in with drmyshottyizsik and squashed the argument. Instead he's ignored it which makes him look scummy as hell, but he's not so dumb as to do something like that. So.. he's under observation for now.

The rest of the stuff is interesting. Shows that you're insightful, but it's ultimately wrong. I often reaction-hunt as town in the early parts of games. You're not going to get any traction with it. Instead you should join the rack-wagon.

@redFF - How the hell do you have a town-read on rack?

[Kublai Khan]

Kublai: Why did you feel the need to say you were taking Candy off your scumlist? Why was he there in the first place?

Sorry, don't know how I missed this.

Post 37 was a shit-stirring post.

And I disagree about shotgun. His play has been interesting.

Not that interesting. I've seen plenty of idiots who think that avoiding lynching is a worthwhile activity to do as town. It's bad short-sighted play.

[Kublai Khan]

You only answered one of the questions.

No real reason, just being open with my reads. Why were those questions so important to you?

[Kublai Khan]

Yup. That's what I thought. This is purely going to be a meta-educational game for you mastin2.

Shift in tone.

It's one of the few dead giveaways Khan has as scum. See 742, preclaim (smug) and postclaim (panicked) for just one example. Memory's a bit fuzzy, but I think NY 142 had a change in tone as well.

Again, for emphasis, everything I do is a "dead giveaway" that I'm scum to you. You had not played a game with me as town. This is why I ::facepalm:: so much in our games together. You've never actually caught me, you've just 'guessed correctly' until now. And today you're wrong.

Do you know what a "shift in tone" is? It means I'm not a robot.

Khan is completely scummy for his dismissal and reaction on the last page. Even Mastin saw it.

Dismissal and reaction to what? Speaking of dismissal, where's your answer to... anything you've been asked?

Nice job OMGUSing and sucking up to the guy with the confirmation bias.

[Kublai Khan]

Catching up, 4 1/2 pages+.

Khan's last post isn't great imo. I read Mastin's scumhunting guide and personally I can see tone as a way to determine somebody as scum. Instead he chooses to attack mastin instead of the points he raised. Instead of explaining why the things mastin mentioned isn't scummy, he says that mastin sees everything he does as scummy. That made more sense in my head. Either way,

What the --? I explained why a shift in tone isn't scummy. Listen, you are not allowed to piggy-back on the words of the living embodiment of confirmation bias (mastin2). You have to come up with your own damn case.
---

KK: Do you consider OMGUS scummy?

Under the right circumstances, I do. rack ignored a ton of questions directed at him and instead chose to echo mastin2's sentiments and vote the guy who is actively encouraging others to vote for him (me). If he had a previous history of thinking that I was scum, then it wouldn't be OMGUS, but his suspicion of me directly coincides with the fact that I'm campaigning for a bandwagon on him.

Yea. When someone calls someone out you don't really need to defend them for them.

Or at least I don't.Why do you feel it's "strange (possibly scummy)"? I don't really know him, but disagreeing is scummy?

At the time, I was just refreshing and waiting for new posts.
It was strange (and possibly scummy) because it was an over-reaction and/or a strongish defense.
---
redFF's push on Candy Corn Vampire feels forced. I'm not seeing the case.
---
Oh, moot-ness. Candy Corn Vampire is out. Hi Antihero.
---
@vijay2vasandani - You realize that drmyshotgun claimed Universal Backup, right?

*more to come

[Kublai Khan]

My relevant thoughts at this stage:

I need more posts from rack and firestarter.

Pine is scummy.

Head A of rack has been proven to respond to voting pressure. We can revisit Pine later.

[Kublai Khan]

Head A of rack has been proven to respond to voting pressure. We can revisit Pine later.

Or we can visit Pine now.
Are you under the impression rack won't answer anything unless there is a bandwagon on him?

Distinctly so. The only read he's given since he decided he created a "shitstorm" was to call me scum after I started asking people to pressure him. I think he's trying to stall until this Head B shows up. Why are we letting him?

@KK: How in the hell can you call Rack's responses "responding well to pressure"?

I don't think I said "well", just that he responds. Which is what I want him to do. He's cagey as fuck. He was asked what his reads were and he figuratively answered "oh, all of them" and then he blamed me for being part of the "liberal drive-by lamestream media".

All I'm doing is asking that we stop and recognize the extreme scumminess of his behavior and shine a bright spotlight on him.

<ooc>Woo! Scummie! </ooc>

[Kublai Khan]

I disagree with the "shotgun is obvious town b/c he claimed" crowd. I asked him a very simple question, why whould he as town bandwagon rack with a vote disquised as an RVS. He avoided said question and went on to claim a PR. This looks like newb scum trying to shut down early heat on him.but since he's a VI the scumread is weak.

LLD, NN and KK get scum points for their cognitive dissonance here i.e;Nero is scummy for not providing "proof" that Shotty is a vi but Shotgun is town for avoiding a question.

drmyshotgun's not "town because he claimed". He's getting a pass right now because he claimed

Universal Backup

. Which means that he gets a pass until the first PR death and then he must validate his claim. If he's scum, then he's bought himself a day or two, tops.

I don't care if he doesn't answer any questions or even bothers to post (since he doesn't seem to understand the concept of scumhunting). There is zero chance that he will "lurk to victory" with that claim.

[Kublai Khan]

@vijay2vasandani - The fact that you're trying to start a counter-wagon on Pine

right now

can only be interpreted as an attempt to get focus off rack so that he can coast without punishment.

If I wasn't pressuring rack for reads, then I'd be with you on Pine. All I'm asking is that you stay your hand for now.

[Kublai Khan]

I think Rack needs to come out and say something, anything, quite soon, he hasn't really responded to pressure beyond looking for head b to make an appearance.

Exactly. We're pressuring rack. He's saying nothing, so our solution is to say "fuck it" and go after Pine?

Fucking ADD generation...

[Kublai Khan]

I'm working on a re-read. Should have some updated reads up in a few hours.

[Kublai Khan]

Okay, didn't have time for a full re-read because my son was sick today, so I'll give what I've got.

1. Psyche
- Felt the need to complain repeatedly.
- Frustrating & confusing writing style
- Not sure why he jumped off the rack wagon
- Pretty strongly scum

3. scooby
- Reallllllllllllly lurking.
- Not helping town out any.

4. FakeGod/jasonT1981
- jasonT1981 came across pretty town.. Meta is that jasonT1981-scum wouldn't have much of a problem lurking.
- nothing on FakeGod.

5. Firestarter
- Not much content, but not shying away from controversy.
- Townish feeling

6. The Mini-Librarian
- Townie-looking.

7. rack
- Horrible meta attacks
- OMGUS votes me
- Have no idea why he's voting Macros
- Obv-scum.

8. DeasVail
- some drastic read-changes between 297 & 298 (Psyche, most noticably)
- Why no immediate vote after reads?
- Very greasy/sleazy feeling. Prob. scum

9. Macros
- Tunneling on a suspect that has a low lynch-chance.
- Signs of looking busy, nullish on him atm

10. NihilisticNinja
- "Quote/Premise/conclusion" opening thing read like eagertown
- Heavy LLD defense...
- Hey, where'd he go?
-

Mod: prod him?

11. Benmage
- Good ballsy town content

12. Pine
- super sub-standard early play (defending scooby, trying to tie rack & Lady Lambdadelta together..)
- vote hopping
- Pretty scummy feeling

13. drmyshottyizsik
- I R SERIOUS SHOTTY (early game)
- reads scummy, but that's not unexpected.
- ambivalous towards him atm

14. HezLucky
- Is the HEZWAVRE tunnel gimmick a meta thing? (Probably, so I'm not concerned)
- It's really bothering me that I'm disagreeing so much with his reads. Means either I'm way wrong or we're not on the same side.

15. drmyshotgun
- VI with a PR. Next.

16. Nero Cain
- NOISE NOISE NOISE
- "that wagon is building too fast to be town" bullshit
- I'm getting used to his style. He's not an idiot but is despretely trying to come off as one for reaction's sake. But I'm getting that it's probably more of a meta thing. I'm utterly baffled as to why he doesn't have any doubt at all that rack isn't scum.

17. redFF
- Not sure where he stands on a lot of stuff. Seems to just be sniping and playing his cards close to his chest.
- Also not sure why he's not the least bit interested in a rack-wagon..
- IGMEOH

Last seven when I get home tonight...

[Kublai Khan]

Nero Cain is an idiot. It's not an act.

Post 548 puts him more than a notch above drmyshottyizsik and drmyshotgun (for example).

[Kublai Khan]

Oh cool, so he's a slight improvement upon the worst of the worst. It's like he got a 10% on the test, but hey, someone didn't get ANYTHING right.

Well, okay. If you want to put it in a way that's pretty insulting, sure.

The base conclusion is that he's more in my town column than my scum column right now. However he needs a better explanation as to why he's not on the rack-wagon.

[Kublai Khan]

Finishing up..

18. Antihero/Candy Corn Vampire
- Early sharp scumhunting
- redFF's pointed out "backtrack" is overblown
- I like Antihero's style. Willingness to talk through his thought process is a towntell because it's extremely hard for scum to fake.

19. mastin2
- Ugh...
- Never did unveil the "dozens of scumtells" that Firestarter tripped (275 - i18). Votes for Firestarter still without giving reasons (585 - i39)
- Not surprised he sees rack as town. mastin2 continues to be horrible at scumhunting. His strength is reading links between players and I want to see more analysis on this.
- Also, the pseudolynch musing is bad scum-hunting.
- His meta musings about changing style and feeling out of his league are noise. Still, I've got a townish gut feeling.

20. Lady Lambdadelta
- Kinda didn't like the fence-sitting arbitration between Nero Cain and NihilisticNinja early on. ("NN you should research shotty and NC you answer NN's question and provide examples" (paraphrased))
- Been agreeing pretty consistently with her reads, which is a good sign.

21. Junpei
- "passion" arguments are really bad.
- It's a shame that mastin2's posting style is massively distracting him from the rest of the game.
- I'd seriously like more participation from Junpei (if I may call him that)

22. Maxous
- His posting and scumhunting is very obv-town.

23. vijay2vasandani
- His vote on me was terrible. And I mean not just because it was on me, it was just terrible.
- A lot of wagon-shopping while constantly questioning people's rack-reads.
- Scum.

24. GreyICE/Praetyre
- Didn't like the dayvig play on someone he considered to be townish. I can buy that it's meta-hate, but there's no need for it.
- Also not liking the idea that he considered all the non-rack wagons to be scum-driven, then tries to launch a wagon on drmyshottyizsik.
- town read, but i've got doubt.

Also, overall I've got an itchy face. Which means that I feel that I've got wool pulled over my eyes. Probably by one of the better players. But that's fine, I rarely nail entire scum-teams in the first day.

[Kublai Khan]

Khan, how do you go from this:

1. Psyche
- Felt the need to complain repeatedly.
- Frustrating & confusing writing style
- Not sure why he jumped off the rack wagon

To this?:

- Pretty strongly scum

Your first two points are complaints about my style and the third is more of a question than a reason for finding me scummy. And yet you come to this conclusion. I find the very idea that you actually think this way disingenuous.

By the way, I thought I explained my reason for leaving the rack wagon? I suppose I might be remembering wrong, but I doubt it.

I'm trying to do a thorough read so that my return to the front becomes like an emergence from the spring of rebirth. In other words, I'll be in my groove and more capable of helping you guys, more or less. Hopefully this isn't

I am deeply interested in how merely presenting an unlikeable personality can have such a profound effect on how people read your scumminess! That probably isn't the butt of it all — I haven't performed with intellective grace, either. I'll of course need to monitor that in future play, but, oh, the research opportunities! Anyways...all I have for today.

Well, let's take Post 215 as an example. You use flowery language, bad sentence structure, roundabout thinking, and passivity to essentially say: "Hey, since drmyshottyizsik isn't going to be night-killed, he's only going to be a constant counter-wagon for scum to push. So we should lynch him, but I'm not going to take part." (Which is a fucked-up scummy wishy-washy statement to begin with). However you spread it out over five lines and it takes 4 readthrough to understand. It looked like a trap designed to get someone to misunderstand you. And sure enough Post 265 is you accusing NihilisticNinja of misrepping you. (Not outright either, but in a bullshit passive way)

There's a weak scumtell that people who try to use super-sophisticated language are more likely to be scum. Generally it shows that they are consciously trying to manipulate. In general, people with town win conditions try to be clear and avoid misrepresentation. Your posts seemingly encourage misrepresentation with your style. It's possible that it's a meta thing, in which case, change yo' style. This game and in future games.

Your reason for unvoting rack was "No longer interested in my instinctive reactions to his posts". Whatever the fuck that means.

[Kublai Khan]

@Psyche - Pretty sure I answered all your questions and observations in the response from me that you quoted.

Re-read and try again.

@Junpei - He asked for an example, I provided him with one, so now he's saying that my provided example is evidence of me scrambling to provide *NEW INFORMATION*.

[Kublai Khan]

No. Answers are not in your post. What, are my questions worded in a way that's oh so confusing again? >.>

Seriously, Psyche? If you're going to use big words to make yourself sound more authoritative, at least have the readability skills to back it up.

lol where do you get this stuff? a correlation between hypersophistication and scumminess. If that's true, I'd love to understand why.

Generally it shows that they are consciously trying to manipulate.

Why would I want to be misunderstood? In what universe does that make sense?

It looked like a trap designed to get someone to misunderstand you. And sure enough Post 265 is you accusing NihilisticNinja of misrepping you. (Not outright either, but in a bullshit passive way)

Sure, I should've shut up over the shotty question or spoken more decisively, but the diffidence inherent in my consideration of it all shouldn't be mistaken for wishy-washiness. Also, scummy how?

You use flowery language, bad sentence structure, roundabout thinking, and passivity to essentially say: "Hey, since drmyshottyizsik isn't going to be night-killed, he's only going to be a constant counter-wagon for scum to push. So we should lynch him, but I'm not going to take part." (Which is a fucked-up scummy wishy-washy statement to begin with).

[Kublai Khan]

What does hypersophitication have to do with manipulation? Can you give me one good example of this tell, or is the gem of your own creation?

It's an version of the appeal to authority fallacy. You're choosing to say something fancifully instead of plainly in hopes to intimidate those that may not understand the language and/or may unintentionally give it more weigh as it comes from someone appearing to be educated.

Characterizing play as a trap doesn't explain why I would pursue it. WHY would I set a trap to get people to misunderstand me? That's wholly counterintuitive. And who does that? Is it one of your scumplay strategies?

Nice loaded question at the end there but yeah. The snobbish "Nice attempt at misrepping" reply to NihilisticNinja is the pay-off to a confusion trap. You didn't accuse NihilisticNinja outright of being scum, but planted the seed in everyone's mind.

Number three has the same error as two - it simply restates what I have issue with. HOW is flowery language and that other crap scuummy? But you already attempted to deal with this above, so try and focus on 1 and 2.

I'm cheerin for ya; you can do it!
One more try...

What's the point of all this mockery and derision?

P.Edit - The readability skills thing was a joke. (obv). Thanks for the apology, though.

[Kublai Khan]

@rack

- You are at L-2. Are you going to continue to fuck around? Or are you going to realize that Head B isn't coming to save your ass and finally play the game and post some reads?

[Kublai Khan]

For what it's worth, I've started a comprehensive post containing 24 sections (one for each player and "other stuff", like VCA and miscellaneous comments in my QT) which I've been working on trying to complete. (Yes, most of it'll be spoilered. ) Showing original reads, old reads (if different), gut-reads (current-right-at-this-very-moment, if different), and current reads (future-after-I've-done-my-work-reads, if different). I've gone through all the original and some of the old reads content that's in my QT, but haven't covered in-thread reads, yet (though they're mostly the same), yet alone, having started the reread.

Basically, the idea's to show how I got my reads, explain why they morphed, and then give an update based off of all the new content.

I'd prefer nobody speedlynch rack until I finish, since contrary to appearances, I sometimes

do

give valuable insight into a game, insight which can on occasion earn me the fear (and nightkill) of the scum.

I'm confused by the number of people saying "No, mastin! It's super-scummy when you do that!"

[Kublai Khan]

No one hammer till we get a claim and mastin makes his huge post.

Bored. C'mon mastin2 & rack.

[Kublai Khan]

@rack - 4 reads and a "can't remember why I voted". Plus two of your reads are stupidly wrong.

Ugh.

Do you have any reads that show that you're reading any part of the game that doesn't pertain directly to you?

* You've already stated that you think mastin2 is town.
* You're calling Lady Lambdadelta "pretty much town", but you've been taking pot shots at her all game. (in what little content you've provided).
* Your read on me is crap, vague, and lazy.
* Your drmyshotgun read is useless, because he isn't going to be lynched.
* And your Macros vote was fluff.

Could you show that you've read the game? Can you comment on anything else besides stuff you've already commented on (like the majority of the fucking playerlist)?

In my small sample size of games I've played with you, you've never been *this* useless as either town or scum.. So the meta defense is weak.

But...

Antihero does have a point about Pine. (Which I think Nero Cain is guilty of as well). But I can't justify moving my vote off you for only providing some meta background as an excuse for such shitty Day 1 play. I think that if you can't post a proper "here are my reads on every player" then you should hang.

[Kublai Khan]

LLD is pretty much town (and sorry about the "passive" remark; I was just trying to generate conversation, then shit went down, yo).

Please look very closely at LLD, KK, and Pine, who are (collectively) absolutely scum.

I feel fine about the rack-scum lynch. He can't even keep the few reads he has straight. The only thing Lady Lambdadelta posted in between these two posts is a "will post later".

P.Edit - That was out of line, redFF...

[Kublai Khan]

Not every needs to weigh in on it. It's a distraction from the game. PeregrineV will deal with it as he sees fit.

[Kublai Khan]

This is a distraction from the game. PeregrineV will deal with it as he sees fit.

[Kublai Khan]

Hmm.. Two of my scum-reads were way off (vijay2vasandani & rack). Might need another re-read.

vote: Pine

Also... No replacements? Cool. Let's all be civil.

[Kublai Khan]

Agreed with mini-librarian.

vote: Nero Cain

[Kublai Khan]

And
-No kill went through on a stronger town player.

What exactly is meant by this? Who do you see as a stronger town player than Antihero? (Based on Day 1 play alone)
---
@Nero Cain- Your Lady Lambdadelta push looks scummy as hell because it looks like you were anticipating an anti-Lady Lambdadelta sentiment following the kerfuffle during the twilight of Day 1, then you seem to be scrambling to defend your position.

This line:

Still I think the LLD, GI, Benmage taking offense to reds post is a dileberate attempt to distract from the game and each slot should get major scum points.

is one of the stupidest things I've ever read. Your scumhunting has been pretty random all game, but this takes the cake. This is craplogic that makes drmyshotgun look brilliant in comparison.

Plus your wagon hunt list makes absolutely no sense. Why is FakeGod crossed out? You called his rack vote terrible. Why is my name randomly crossed out? How the hell are Maxous and The Mini-Librarian higher scum-targets than Pine and Junpei? You need to explain the fuck out of that.

Plus your attitude towards the rack wagon was scummy as balls. You fought against it like crazy, calling it scum-driven. Then when people started complaining about how long Day 1 was, you jumped on it saying that "the day needed to end" then turned around and called FakeGod terrible for doing the same thing? WTF?

Nero Cain or Pine are swinging today. (scooby and/or Junpei are outside chances depending on their contributions today)

[Kublai Khan]

Oh, goddamn. 5 pages crop up in 29 hours? Including giant walls?

Ugh. Catch-up post by this evening at the latest. Let's try not to drown the game in the meanwhile, huh?

[Kublai Khan]

First,

Mod: Can we get a votecount?

{Also, re-reading all of Day 2 while I'm at it, it's only a little extra...}

Pine - Why is Pine only voting for people based on perceived absolutes? Could he be a stronger scum-read?

This line:

Still I think the LLD, GI, Benmage taking offense to reds post is a dileberate attempt to distract from the game and each slot should get major scum points.

is one of the stupidest things I've ever read. Your scumhunting has been pretty random all game, but this takes the cake. This is craplogic that makes drmyshotgun look brilliant in comparison.

Plus your wagon hunt list makes absolutely no sense. Why is FakeGod crossed out? You called his rack vote terrible. Why is my name randomly crossed out? How the hell are Maxous and The Mini-Librarian higher scum-targets than Pine and Junpei? You need to explain the fuck out of that.

Plus your attitude towards the rack wagon was scummy as balls. You fought against it like crazy, calling it scum-driven. Then when people started complaining about how long Day 1 was, you jumped on it saying that "the day needed to end" then turned around and called FakeGod terrible for doing the same thing? WTF?

reds comments to AH wasn't an attack. GI, LLD and Ben are fucking immature to get pissed about said statement. If I had bullets I'd shoot each one for being whiny little bitches.

Fakegod is crossed out b/c he's not my first lynch choice. A few people, myself included, didn't have Jason in high praise. When he replaced in he hadn't fully caught up yet wich is fine but he promised to and then voted rack. I was kinda hoping he'd catch up before the day ended but meh.

Your name is crossed out...did you really not read? GAH!!! You're like the third person to ask me this shit.

Nero Cain.. Slow down and ACTUALLY READ what you are replying to. Because you are making no sense and I just think you are scummier for deliberately misinterpreting my posts.

1) I have no idea what "reds comments to AH wasn't an attack" means. It refers to nothing in my post. What the fuck is that about?
2) You called Lady Lambdadelta, GreyICE, and benmage scummy for their offense to redFF. Now you're calling it immature. Is that a backtrack or do you somehow think that scum are innately immature?
3) So the fact that FakeGod didn't catch up by the end of Day 1 makes him less likely to be scum?
4) I asked why my name was crossed out (and therefore not a lynch target) because if the basis of your case is that Lady Lambdadelta SAT on the rack lynchwagon, why would I not also be scum with her? I sat just as long on the rack wagon because rack never posted anything that might convince me to move off of it. So why is there a double standard?

Also, as of Post 1098.. WTF? You're not even pushing a Lady Lambdadelta lynch anymore? What changed?

Oh, you posted another, different case on Lady Lambdadelta in Post 1135. It reads like a scum-case of "I'm going to analyze everything in her posts and pick up on minute inconsistencies to show her as being scum and therefore justify my vote". A town-case is usually one or two major things with maybe some other minor things.

Spoiler: Some thoughts

mastin2 could be town. Time will tell. I'm in no rush to lynch him. He'll slip up later if he's scum.

Has he yet?

He hasn't.

To FakeGod: There are 20 players in the game besides yourselves. Why are you pouting about a single player being called a townread instead of commenting on anything else?

@Everyone else - How the fuck is Nero Cain not being wagonned?

[Kublai Khan]

Cause even for scum Nero's posting is bizarre.

Pine is a better option, he is just outright scummy.

Bizarre or not, there is scum motivation at work.

Pine is #2 on my suspect list, though.

(The generalized reason I voted for rack the way I did was to break myself into the game by lending my clout to a decent wagon.)

That's a shitty reason to jump on a wagon. Also, what clout?

[Kublai Khan]

1.) "reds comments to AH wasn't an attack" refers to him calling AH a fag. I really see no reason for those three to get all upset like that. It reads to me like an

ATE

. Do you really think that Ben, GI and LLD are all town?
2.) If you wanna call it a backtrack fine.
3.) I didn't say that. I was just unsure of it and I wanted to see more posts from him before I made a decesion.
4.) but my basis isn't that she sat on the wagon, true its a big part of my case but its not like its my whole entire case. But like I said in my first post, I think lynching from the Rack wagon is a good idea. You were a day1 gut scum read, I can't really explain it therefore I'm not pushing it and I'd lynch others before you anyways.

In the future I'd appretiate if you'd read fully first. I already explained that TML zeal that I was wrong and should not suspect LLD gave me chainsaw vibes like he was defending a townie for town cred.

As for why I'm not being wagoned. Its simple. Scum know I'm town and are saving me for a mislynch later down the line.

1) You have no idea what an ATE is. And as a matter of fact, I do have benmage, GreyICE, and Lady Lambdadelta on the town side of my reads. The whole incident was a bunch of personality clashing that had nothing to do with alignment. The fact that you're trying to make a case out of it is scummy.
2) So you're backtracking the main basis of your case against Lady Lambdadelta?
3) Oh. You wanted to see more posts from him. That's why you let him know that he was off the hook for his "terrible" vote. [/sarcasm]
4) That makes no sense whatsoever.

Now, KK, can you explain to me why Nero is scum and not incredibly misguided town?

There's a point between misguided and townie. He's crossed that line. Post 1135 is post made by scum justifying a bad vote.

Also still waiting on that Mastin case

"

Maaaaaaaastin! Please distract them from meeeeeee!

"

You already saw mastin2's case on me. It's Post 238 except longer because the game's gone on longer. If you think I'm scum (and you've already said so), then post your case before he does.

Also, did you really write up your Lady Lambdadelta post at the end of Day 1?

[Kublai Khan]

1.) "reds comments to AH wasn't an attack" refers to him calling AH a fag. I really see no reason for those three to get all upset like that. It reads to me like an

ATE

. Do you really think that Ben, GI and LLD are all town?
2.) If you wanna call it a backtrack fine.
3.) I didn't say that. I was just unsure of it and I wanted to see more posts from him before I made a decesion.
4.) but my basis isn't that she sat on the wagon, true its a big part of my case but its not like its my whole entire case. But like I said in my first post, I think lynching from the Rack wagon is a good idea. You were a day1 gut scum read, I can't really explain it therefore I'm not pushing it and I'd lynch others before you anyways.

In the future I'd appretiate if you'd read fully first. I already explained that TML zeal that I was wrong and should not suspect LLD gave me chainsaw vibes like he was defending a townie for town cred.

As for why I'm not being wagoned. Its simple. Scum know I'm town and are saving me for a mislynch later down the line.

1) You have no idea what an ATE is. And as a matter of fact, I do have benmage, GreyICE, and Lady Lambdadelta on the town side of my reads. The whole incident was a bunch of personality clashing that had nothing to do with alignment. The fact that you're trying to make a case out of it is scummy.
2) So you're backtracking the main basis of your case against Lady Lambdadelta?
3) Oh. You wanted to see more posts from him. That's why you let him know that he was off the hook for his "terrible" vote. [/sarcasm]
4) That makes no sense whatsoever.

Now, KK, can you explain to me why Nero is scum and not incredibly misguided town?

There's a point between misguided and townie. He's crossed that line. Post 1135 is post made by scum justifying a bad vote.

Also still waiting on that Mastin case

"

Maaaaaaaastin! Please distract them from meeeeeee!

"

You already saw mastin2's case on me.

{Now with tags fixed}

[Kublai Khan]

Oh, effin' hell. It cut off the bottom part. Eh, whatever.

[Kublai Khan]

WTF Junpei?

mastin2 has commented on Macros already. Why the delay on your part?

[Kublai Khan]

Speaking of Macros,

Kublai Khan

, I'd like an updated read on him from YOU as well.

Fair enough. He's been prod dodging and making empty promises for far too long. The only town-ish thing that he's done that put him a (small) notch above the scum line is the fact that he had the opportunity to jump on the rack wagon, but didn't.

[Kublai Khan]

Fair enough. He's been prod dodging and making empty promises for far too long. The only town-ish thing that he's done that put him a (small) notch above the scum line is the fact that he had the opportunity to jump on the rack wagon, but didn't.

That's reasoning, but it's not a *read*, Khan. Give me something concrete, here.

Wow, really? That was dodgy? Was that really

that

hard to parse?

Macros ->

weak scum read

Is that better?

[Kublai Khan]

@mastin2 - I can tolerate you calling me scum (because you were going to do so regardless of whatever roles we got), but I won't tolerate you calling me a shitty scumhunter. Drop your shitty tactic of pre-flip guilt-by-associating and fucking look at Nero Cain in isolation. There is no fucking way that he's town.

[Kublai Khan]

Mastin - can you point me in direction of a couple of recently completed games where you have been town and scum.

Likewise KK.

Kublai Khan - The last crash wiped out some updates though.

Most recent... The Aftermath (scum), Animal PetPick (SK), War in Heaven III & Final Fantasy 6 Mafia (Both were largely eaten by tigers -- I think my entire contribution, in fact..)

Probably some I'm missing. I really should get organized.

[Kublai Khan]

Also still waiting on that Mastin case

"

Maaaaaaaastin! Please distract them from meeeeeee!

"

You already saw mastin2's case on me.

lol.

LLD voted Mastin at the begining of the DP. I wanted to see her case on him. That was me asking her for her case on mastin not asking mastin for a case on you. misrep much?

Not misrepping. Misunderstanding. I thought you were repeating your request from Post 1116.

In the absence of a scum-flip, mastin2's verbal diarrhea means nothing and it's been established that he will consider me his top scum suspect no matter what. If you're asking him for his read of me, it means you've already read what he's posted about me and thought that it had any merit what-so-ever.

You're tickling the back of mastin2's keyboard because you want a distraction away from you.

Stating that someone is town or scum via unflipped player attack is ridiculous.

Says the guy who has

no problem at all

with mastin2's input.

just like Rack and Vijay were not town.

Not a town response at all, btw.

Everyone:

Does Mastin do this kind of thing as scum?

Well, the game I've played with mastin2 where he was scum is outdated (thought it was multi-scum), but he was really, really obv-scum. He reads as town in this game.

Once there's an actual scum-flip, mastin2 can help uncover the rest of the scum-team really well, but until then he's just spinning his wheels in the mud. Being massively wrong and full of himself isn't a scum-tell for him.

---
Benmage comes off as the scummier one in his tiff with HezLucky.
---

One other thing, KK - your vote Post 1011 how do you feel about Pine now? Still guilty?

Scummy, not "guilty", but yep.

[Kublai Khan]

---
Benmage comes off as the scummier one in his tiff with HezLucky.
---

Explain please.

Still busy. This game, still on the backburner. Not much else to say.

Because he's right. Just popping in every so often and saying "Gosh guys, I'm really busy, but I'll post something content eventually! Scout's honor!" is the definition of active lurking.

You're avoiding commenting on the game and not giving reads. On top of that, you're only scanning for your name in particular. Which is survivalist behavior.

[Kublai Khan]

Yes I was very against the rack wagon for it's entirety, rack wasn't scummy, and when NS claimed he was rack it all made sense.

Really? It "made sense" that fucking Nobody Special thought he was in a "shitstorm" and was waiting to be bailed out?? Nobody Special can't handle himself?

Plus you called rack town way before you knew it was Nobody Special, so you're full of shit.

[Kublai Khan]

@KK for the last time I'm not asking Mastin for a read or case on you. I asked once and that was it. I'm not sure why you keep bringing it up.

Yes. I understand that. I admit that I misunderstood the second request that I had quoted originally. However, the point remains that you did ask mastin2 to outline a case against me while you were under pressure.

Stating that someone is town or scum via unflipped player attack is ridiculous.

Says the guy who has

no problem at all

with mastin2's input.
When did I ever say that?

Have you not read any of mastin2's posts all game? A large majority of his scum-hunting style is to read people as scum or town based on their interactions with other players. So if honestly believe what you posted in 1217 is correct, then you wouldn't be interested at all in mastin2's reads on anyone. You are inconsistent in your attitudes.

Everyone:

Does Mastin do this kind of thing as scum?

Well, the game I've played with mastin2 where he was scum is outdated (thought it was multi-scum), but he was really, really obv-scum. He reads as town in this game.

Once there's an actual scum-flip, mastin2 can help uncover the rest of the scum-team really well, but until then he's just spinning his wheels in the mud. Being massively wrong and full of himself isn't a scum-tell for him.

Actully, in Mafia on werewolf islad he did something similar when he was outted. And he should know that it's very anti-town to flood the thread like this.

It's anti-town, but he does it plenty of times as town.

[Kublai Khan]

Yes I already had a town read on him, when ns revealed that town read got stronger.

Yeah, but it is (and was) a bullshit town read.

"Head B is coming to bail me out"
"Head B is coming"
"Head B is coming"
"Head B is coming"
"Head B is coming"
"Head B is coming"
redFF: "Gosh! He's so town!"

The only reason why you're not a strong scumread for me right now is that all evidence points to this being a multi-scum game. So your play is merely bad instead of scummy. But feel free to stop commenting only about yourself and start making cases on people.

[Kublai Khan]

sup KK are you going to vote me or are you just pushing with bad reasoning on me in the hopes of having shit town like code_x jump on my wagon.

Pfff..

I did not say he was so town. I simply said he was a town read because nothing he was doing was scummy to me. Coming out and saying he was waiting for his other head to "bail him out" is not something scum would do.

Why does "

nothing he was doing was scummy

" mean town read and not null read?

Town read means something he did caused you to think "Heyyyy-y-y-y-y-y.. He's got a town role PM because of {action X}"

Fill in {action X} with your reason for thinking he's town. Note that {action X} can't be a negative action.

Scumreads as of now
Firestarter, KK, shotty

notice how both firestarter and shotty have completely disappeared?

Staggering coincidental that I'm suddenly on your scumreads after I call you out on some shit.

And you're not actively pushing anything. All you're doing is saying vague "so-and-so are scum". Do something more than take up space. Argue something. Show your work.

[Kublai Khan]

yes the shitty obviously scumdriven wagon was why I had a town read. Notice how there was a kill off the wagon? Scum doesn't want to shoot into the wagon because if they do they're narrowing down the amount of shitty town diluting the scum concentrated on that wagon.

You called me out on no shit KK, because I'm not spouting shit.

Wait, what? There were two kills last night. One of them hit the wagon and one of them didn't. How are you figuring that Antihero (who was on the wagon) wasn't a scum kill?

At this stage town is wrapped around scum's fingers or terrible and up their own ass. We're heading to a loss.

Right, it'd be better if we mumbled a vote on Firestarter and otherwise didn't make any waves?

I want your reads on everyone, redFF.

[Kublai Khan]

wb shotty, good to have you here.

> Notable dodge of questions asked in Post 1368.

Unvote

vote: redFF

[Kublai Khan]

Okay.. redFF is a dead-end. Nobody appreciates how goddamn good the Nero Cain case is. Time to compromise with second choice.

So...

Unvote

Vote: Pine

[Kublai Khan]

Thats a buncha quick redff votes, can someone give me a quick bulleted case please.

If I see one more "I'm not reading the game" post from Benmage, I'm revoking my townread on him.

@redFF - No.

Gonna re-read Junpei tonight and see if I'm okay with his lynch. I think we need to start consolidating on wagons and figure out who we are lynching today.

[Kublai Khan]

You don't think I'm scum kk? Why did you vote me?

You were scummy for dodging my questions, then when you did answer, your answer made me think that you were town.

[Kublai Khan]

KK what about my reads made me look town? I also asked you for all your reads on every player. Dodging the question? Isn't that what you voted me for?

Oh, no, your reads are crap and lazy. But that's what I've come to expect from you. I wanted you to actually post some positions on people since you've been so minimalist all game. I've already posted three times as many game reads as you, so you're really not in a position to demand anything of me.

It's your conclusion that Antihero was a vig target that convinced me to not pursue you. It's such a mind-blowingly stupid conclusion that it could only have been formed by inside knowledge that I'm not privy to. Which means you are either a vig, a mafioso, or a SK.

Since there are (at the very least) two killers in this game, I'm happy to let the problem resolve itself.

[Kublai Khan]

Nope. I'm not asking him to reveal anything. Just explaining why I have no interest in lynching him.

[Kublai Khan]

Yeah, but I can't lynch him on my own and nobody else is interested. Plus Pine is a fine, fine choice for a lynch today. So either the redFF situation works itself out, or I just have to revisited another day.

Either way, I'm dropping it for now.

[Kublai Khan]

I'm still confused as to whether you think I'm scum or not.

I'm not entirely sure either. I'm leaning scum though.

[Kublai Khan]

@KK: So you think redff is scum, but you don't want to vote him because you think he's going to get nk'ed? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Tell me how that is a town move please.

Look, it's not LYLO right now. When there are two killing groups.

Those two groups do not have the same win conditions

. And it's very much in their benefit to eliminate any other killing groups because someone with a killing ability can present a more potent threat because then someone who has to convince other people to help kill (aka lynching).

redFF's certainty that Antihero is a vig shot is not natural. It means that he most likely has inside information that's fueling his conclusion.

In the slim chance that he's a town vig and Antihero was his target, then I didn't want to draw too much attention except you, redFF, and drmyshotgun have been prodding me to provide more information. But whatever. So if scum kill redFF-vig, it's not overall a big loss because Antihero was a terrible NK target.

If redFF is a SK or scum, then the vijay2vasandani killer(s) will eliminate redFF because it furthers their win condition.

So like I fucking said. I'm backing off redFF and waiting to see if the problem resolves itself. Whether or not he's scum is irrelevant. He's NK-bait.

[Kublai Khan]

@KK: redff said early d2 (his first post of the day I think) that he thought AH was a vig. So why the sudden suspicion on him for his views?

I misunderstood it. Re-read the top of Page 42 and you'll see why. Drmyshotgun said that "he wished he was a vig", then redFF asked "im guessing ah was a vig?" to which Nero Cain answered that Antihero was a mason. I read the exchange and assumed the same thing that Nero Cain did (that redFF misunderstood Drmyshotgun). It wasn't until Code_X re-quoted it (much) later that I realized that redFF was making the call then.

@StrangerCoug - Thanks for the comprehensive review. Though what's your read on Pine?

[Kublai Khan]

Yeah, that's pretty suspicious of Benmage. His ISO is also pretty poor. I'll take his vote as a bus or maybe opposite scum team.

What? I'll argue well into the post-game that benmage's active lurking of "uh, I haven't read, but all catch-up" is scummy as balls. But straight-up forgetting who the Day 1 lynch is? How the hell are you trying to paint that as scummy? Scum don't forget who got lynched.

Benmage joins drmyshotgun in the "town, but useless" category. (Also, I should mention that I'm thoroughly insulted that benmage compared himself to me.)

Junpei is in the scumbox.

[Kublai Khan]

Also, the mastin2 wagon is crap. He's posted dumb cases, but he hasn't acted scummy.

Mod: Votecount please

P.Edit - Yeah, you're scum, Junpei. Not much doubt now.

[Kublai Khan]

Are... are you trying to OMGUS me for towncred?

LOL! Keep digging.

unvote
Vote: Junpei

[Kublai Khan]

@FakeGod: You have 4 posts in all of Day 2. I want to see your reads on everyone.

[Kublai Khan]

I find him a bit scummy. I do think it likely that Benmage is town and did actually forget that we lynched rack (a very similar thing happened to me before), but it also crossed my mind that he could be faking it, and I think it scummy of KK to attack you for thinking it.

I'd call this fence-sitting, but you seem to be taking three different positions on this, so I think I would have to create some kind of new geometric figure to describe it, but I just don't have the theoretical physics skills to do so.

I don't know how to explain it but his posts this page do seem a little off to me and I have been entertaining the possibility of KK and mastin being scum together (considering mastin's illogical obsession with KK early on and later drop of it), but I don't want to go too far with this because I am not sure at all about mastin being scum.

"Off"? Compared to what? What the hell do you mean by that?

And mastin2's obsession isn't illogical. It's already been explained. I've kicked his ass many times as scum and he's super-paranoid of it happening again.

[Kublai Khan]

Pfff.. buncha bullshit Junpei. I'm just posting the goofy mood I'm in. It'd be scummier if I maintained the same detached monotone all game. Like, well, you.

[Kublai Khan]

@DeasVail- *shrug* mastin2's suspicion of me was completely expectedand is logical for mastin2 from his own crazed internal logic.

[Kublai Khan]

Hey look! I'm buzzed and there's a load of happy horseshit in the thread.

StrangerCoug: Sure thing, allow me to preface with the idea that I find Kublai to be a mature and rational person and I couldn't find any craziness in his ISO. Nor could I find much suspicion of me at all, save for he doesn't like how my passionate arguments a long time ago.

Completely irrelevant argument. I don't have to have a long history of finding you scummy to read something you did and decide it's scummy.

Yeah, that's pretty suspicious of Benmage. His ISO is also pretty poor. I'll take his vote as a bus or maybe opposite scum team.

What? I'll argue well into the post-game that benmage's active lurking of "uh, I haven't read, but all catch-up" is scummy as balls. But straight-up forgetting who the Day 1 lynch is? How the hell are you trying to paint that as scummy? Scum don't forget who got lynched.

Benmage joins drmyshotgun in the "town, but useless" category. (Also, I should mention that I'm thoroughly insulted that benmage compared himself to me.)

Junpei is in the scumbox.

I am now a scum-read after finding Benmage scummy for reason X. I explained that I did not find him scummy for reason X, but reason Y, and he did not comment.

What the fuck is this "reason X & reason Y" bullshit? Like they were legitimate reasons or seomthing. Reasons Y or X or Z was that it was "suspicious" that Benmage didn't remember that rack was dead. Junpei never said he thought Benmage was faking. Just the mere idea of Benmage not remembering the Day 1 lynch was "suspicious". The other reason is what? "His ISO is pretty poor"? Get the fuck out. Vagueness is not a reason, it's a cover.

Also, the mastin2 wagon is crap. He's posted dumb cases, but he hasn't acted scummy.

Mod: Votecount please

P.Edit - Yeah, you're scum, Junpei. Not much doubt now.

Except to say that there is now no doubt about me being scum (yet no vote), and he decides to attack the mastin wagon which is a direct counter to me.

WTF? Your case is to point out how amazingly hyper-aware I am of the vote count and who the major wagons are on while quoting me asking for the mod to post a votecount. That's some brilliant shit, Sherlock.

The not much doubt comes from the fact that you are now accusing Benmage of faking confusion for towncred. Which is bullshit because if you had thought Benmage was faking at the time you would have replied with something along the lines of "rack is dead, as if you didn't know, you faker". But you didn't. That is ex post facto "scumhunting" which is something scum do.

Are... are you trying to OMGUS me for towncred?

LOL! Keep digging.

unvote
Vote: Junpei

Then somehow digs OMGUS out of my 1517 (maybe it's just me, but I certainly wasn't attacking him on virtue of him attacking me, and even if i was I don't see how you can get towncred from that) and votes me (why now and not before, I don't know). Also has yet to comment on why I am scum.

Nice job of only quoting me saying OMGUS to nothing so you can make it look like it's a wild accusation.

You have a vote on mastin2. You are accusing me of voting for you for the sole reason of saving mastin2. And now you're denying that you were not trying to imply that I'm scum-buddies with mastin2? Buuulllllshiiiiiiit.

Let me explain something to you. I would neeeever, eeeeeever stick my neck out for mastin2. If we were scum together I would bus the fuck out of him and him me and whoever survived would look townie as fuck. Go read 132- Desert Mafia. That bastard got everyone to believe that there was no way we were won the same side then went and got himself lynched.

I know it's a meta WIFOM argument, but there's no other way to explain it. Pine was in that game as well and he'll vouch for how well that move would have worked in this game.

My reads of mastin2-town, Benmage-town, and Junpei-scum are completely independent because I'm not a blowhard who thinks he can scumhunt on connections and call out entire bullshit scumteams based on perceived connections. I lynch scum, then another scum, then another scum, and then I win the game for town.

Seems to be stretching to a large degree to not get Mastin lynched, yet get me lynched. It's so blatant that the connection to Mastin (if Kublai is scum) could certainly be faked, but this isn't a rational thought process by Kublai and I don't have any irrational lens to look through here because he hasn't been irrational this game, he's been quite rational.

This bullshit of "Khan is irrational. Khan's personality changed." needs to stop. None of those are scumtells in even the slightest sense. It's just psychobabble buzzwords.

[Kublai Khan]

Suit yourself. Sorry for all the cussing, but the cervesas are stopping me from self-censoring right now. I stand by my reasoning though abnd nonw of that was "emotional".

[Kublai Khan]

Pfff.. buncha bullshit Junpei. I'm just posting the goofy mood I'm in. It'd be scummier if I maintained the same detached monotone all game. Like, well, you.

Personal insults are not needed.

That... was not a personal insult in any way, shape, or form.

I can't even fathom how you would even begin to interpret it as such.

[Kublai Khan]

You called him scum because of his tone. He can't help that he comes across monotoned. It was a dumb reason to call him scum, and truly kind of mean.

drmyshottyizsik, I'm not talking about his physical, audible voice. I'm talking about the tone of his posts, his writings.

Anyone can control how they sound using the written word. THEY CAN SOUND LIKE THEY ARE SHOUTING IN ORDER TO BE MORE INTIMIDATING! Theyca n type wreal fast and make mistakes to sund to like arent hiding anyting betwen mind nd keybord. They can prefer to opt for an extensive and esoteric vocabulary to persuade via sophistication. Kublai Khan could communicate in third person to annoy. ^_^ They can b KAWAII~! (^_^)b to be disarming, etc...

Junpei has excellent spelling and grammar, every time. That's a sign of someone who reviews their posts and corrects mistakes before they hit submit. Therefore they mean every word they say and is very exact about what he means. So if he's slyly implying something, it's the same as if he's bluntly stating it.

Honestly, if you wanted to defend him, then you could argue that it's a meta thing and therefore a null tell. But "he can't help how he comes across"? WTF? Do you know/understand anything about mafia and what to look for in someone's posts?

---
Why does Benmage keep abbreviating StrangerCoug as SSC? It's annoying.

[Kublai Khan]

LOL! Keep digging.

how would Jun voting/attacking you give him towncred?

"Woh is me, the attacks against me are scum-founded!"

Sorry about your grandma, hope everything is ok

[Kublai Khan]

yep. dude replaced Macros. I'm actully starting to think Mastin was on to something with his Jun/Mac/KK scumteam theory.

I love how nobody directly accuses me of scum. They just put next to two scummy people and say loudly "Look how scummy those three people are. Collectively, not individually!"

BTW, just to check... What was your red on redFF?

[Kublai Khan]

*read

What's your read on redFF, Nero Cain?

[Kublai Khan]

null, though he gets some scumpoints for his crappy vig kill theory. Though I wasn't accusing you of being scum. I was simply stating what his theory was. This is still not the town Jun I'm used to and Kdowns is lurking horribly so perhaps Mastin was on the right track afterall.

Alright, I was just making sure you're being consistent. If you're buying into the 2 3-scum teams theory that mastin2 pushed, then redFF should be anywhere on your townlist.

Also, calling kdowns a lurker is a little premature as there is a lot of reading to get caught up. However he should check in soon and let us know how he's progressing.

KK:

I hereby accuse you of being scum. I hope you're feeling better now.

Nero Cain:

I can easily relate to GreyIce's feeling of apathy toward this game as town. I'd expect scum to be much more motivated in this game considering they're part of a team and things had obviously been going quite well for them. I also don't see scum having Red (unless scumbuddies with him) influence their decision to replace out.

I'll take it as a compliment that the same guy who thinks apathy is a towntell thinks that I'm scum in this game. Your theory of "town are more likely to replace out" is so horrible and wrong that it actually hurts town. Flaking or replacing out is

always

a null-tell. The only reason that it seems like more town replace out than scum is because there are more town then scum players in the game. So quit with the crap logic and actually make a case on someone who you think is scummy.

[Kublai Khan]

We need to vote someone... if we don't get a majority we get no lynch. All aboard Mastin.

Even if all the active posters vote the same person, I don't think we'd have a large enough number for a lynch. Inactivity is hurting the game.

Did you ever actually write a case on mastin2?

[Kublai Khan]

The Mastin wagon... still bigger than Pine.... a better lynch imo, fuck a nother day of walls. Though Pines a legit alternate.

I hate walls is a shitty case.

Unvote
Vote: Pine

I'm fine with this. I've made my case in the past.

[Kublai Khan]

Day ends thursday? We need to agree on a wagon.

Or a crap-wagon on The Mini-Librarian could spring up out of nowhere. Because god knows that has a chance of succeeding given how inactive half this game is.
---
Holy crap, I agree with everything in redFF's Post 1652.
---
Also, scooby seems be to aggressively and purposefully useless.

[Kublai Khan]

VOTE: Pine

Yep Pretty confident in this just from the ISO.

You just replaced into another game I'm in. Could we get some full reads from you in this game?

[Kublai Khan]

I am 100% for a deadline lynch of Pine, scooby, FakeGod, Firestarter, or kdowns. In that order of scummyness, though the last 3 are random. The deadwood in this game is ridiculous.
---
I think StrangerCoug is pushing the joke-claiming angle too strongly. Next time read the whole post and not just the "I claim cop" part.

@The Mini-Librarian: Don't make stupid jokes.
---

Ugh, Pine replacing out? I still prefer to lynch Mastin, I don't know what to do to convince people though.

I asked you to post your case a while back. You never did. So quityerbitching.

[Kublai Khan]

Junpei never said he thought Benmage was faking.

Yeah, but he did'nt say it was because Benmage forgot either. You just assumed it.
Which was your case.

I didn't assume anything. If he had expressed the slightest doubt that one of his biggest scumreads was faking being dumb, then that would be an awesome towntell on Junpei's part.

Instead, he "knew" that Benmage was faking with scum-like certainty.

WTF? Your case is to point out how amazingly hyper-aware I am of the vote count and who the major wagons are on while quoting me asking for the mod to post a votecount.

So you are saying you were'nt aware that Mastin and Junpei were the two highest wagons? Or at least 2 of the 3 highest?

Not really. I knew nobody was currently close to a lynch and that mastin2 and Junpei had votes on them, but I had no idea what the votecount looked like.

[Kublai Khan]

P-edit:
KK, I don't get it. Junpei did'nt previously call benmage scum

He didn't? Eh. I guess he didn't. Damn. Could have sworn he did. That does take the wind out of my sails a bit.

Still, though. It's the certainty of it that's scummy. He's ready to paint any slightly-scummy action as scummy without that "is it scummy or is it bad town" moment of doubt that is the sign of a town-mindset. (see his insistence that drmyshotgun is not town as backup evidence)

Hey Mastin. Did anyone ask you for your reads? No? Then why are you giving them. Other than an attempt to try and look town I can't for the life of me understand the purpose behind your post (O LETS GIVE MORE INFORMATION TO THE MAFIAZ)

Junpei is an EXCELLENT lynch. And if we have a townwagon flip today we are lynching from the people on that wagon tomorrow.

WTF? mastin2 came back from V/LA, read the game, and is giving his updated reads. When did that become bad play?

The second line doesn't make much sense either. "Junpei is an EXCELLENT lynch. Let me just scare people away from jumping on the wagon by letting them know I will try to lynch them if I am wrong."

@Nero Cain, I don't really care about the votes on me because I always have votes casted against me, it isn't something new to me.

You know who else didn't care about votes on him? rack.

Also I notice how you call me scum to prevent people from calling me town. You're scum using classic scum tactics aren't you?

Oh wow. That's a horrible bad straw-grasping post. OhGodMyLife has a perfectly valid point. Right now you're just scum who has run out of interesting ways to distract attention from yourself.

Unvote
Vote: Junpei

I'm tired. Scum has been caught. Let's go to night.

[Kublai Khan]

Hammer

vote: Junpei

[Kublai Khan]

Unvote
Vote: Seacore

Re-thinking it. There's no reason for Seacore to jump into the game and vote Junpei before really reading the game. And only voting him because he's the counter-wagon at that.

I mean, I could understand if Seacore was a PR, but he claimed VT. So why would he vote someone who he doesn't have a scum-read on and might possibly have a more useful pro-town role (Junpei didn't claim VT until later).

[Kublai Khan]

Voting for him was a reasonable thing to do no matter what my alignment.

I can't see that. Why would it be important to increase the number of votes on Junpei when you are a VT and you have no idea if the case on Junpei has any merit or what his claimed role is?

Also, use the nickname of "shotty" for drmyshottynizsik and "gunny" for drmyshotgun. Saves on headaches.

[Kublai Khan]

KK, there are very few days left. of course i would want the counterwagon to be as competitive with my own as possible. You're saying that when you're replacing into a suspected VT slot you just roll over and die?

No, when you replace into a suspected VT slot, you power-read as much as possible. Whatever you don't finish reading you ask questions on. Then you vote your gut and/or your conscience. Failing that, sheep whoever you have the strongest town-read on.

Voting the competing wagon for no reason other than to save your own ass and not giving a shit about who is forced to claim or gets lynched as long as your vanilla self stays alive and claiming to not have read anything of note is self-preservationist as fuck (and therefore scummy).

I think Seacore fucked up. I think Seacore is scum.

[Kublai Khan]

This is a mehful attack.

The attack is sound. Your reaction is what's meh.

[Kublai Khan]

Even as town yes Seacore should of voted Junpei, he would'nt know for sure that Junpei is town while he knows he is.

Wrong. What if Junpei was a doctor/cop/whatever that really didn't want to claim unless he was at L-1? Why the fuck would a VT risk that?

Seacore had no idea what Junpei's claim was. Any good VT knows that they deserve to die instead of a town PR. Why would VT-Seacore vote for someone he had

ZERO

read on when he knows that he's the most expendable town-role when the shit is deadlined to hit the fan?

[Kublai Khan]

Ugh. I can't watch this. I just have to intervene because Kublai's logic is bugging me too much.

Kublai: Your logic is fine only if Seacore has reason beyond randomness to think that I'm a PR. Granted he didn't have reason beyond randomness to think I'm scum (which is why it's scummy). If you want to make the point that Seacore shouldn't have voted before getting a read on me and then deciding whether to kneel over and die or not then fine; but you're presenting that point as if you are saying that VTs should all die to avoid risk of PR-claiming prematurely.

Oh, not all VTs. If Seacore is a VT and had read the game (by being in it or catch-up reading), then I would have no problem with his voting for you because it was be an informed vote.

If you replace into a VT slot and it's a "you or him" situation and you have no time to read, then it just breaks down to mathematical odds. Statistically, in a closed setup, how likely is someone to be scum versus a town PR?

Also, as you've pointed out, I didn't even put Junpei on L-1, so why should I be scared of him being lynched?

Don't play that game. A L-2 vote isn't that much different from a L-1 vote with a deadline looming.

[Kublai Khan]

So, I shouldn't vote for Junpei until I found out if he's a PR or not.
But I shouldn't bring him to claiming level with a vote...

So what was I supposed to do again?

No, when you replace into a suspected VT slot, you power-read as much as possible. Whatever you don't finish reading you ask questions on. Then you vote your gut and/or your conscience. Failing that, sheep whoever you have the strongest town-read on.

Voting your counter-wagon and making excuses as to why you haven't read anything yet is something that scum do.

[Kublai Khan]

Ifyou keep taking this incorrect perspective that overestimates human rationality, you're just going to end with a mislynch. :/

Ugh. Are you fucking serious? That's your problem with my case on Seacore? That I'm assuming that Seacore would rationally play towards a win condition...

Goddamn. I'm floored as to what else to say. That is such a bad/stupid thing to write. You could literally say that at every single lynch on this site and never be wrong.

[Kublai Khan]

@Nero Cain - A lynch was already reached, so, uh... There's not much to discuss until we see Seacore's flip.

[Kublai Khan]

Dunno, waiting on PeregrineV.

[Kublai Khan]

Thanks for modding Pere! I enjoyed my brief time in the game.