NY 151: Playground Mafia (Game Over-Mafia Win!)

[StrangerCoug]

Hello!

Expect me to be fully read up by tomorrow afternoon or evening; I'm just getting here. UNVOTE: if I'm voting anybody.

[StrangerCoug]

#37 I disagree here. As much as the top of page 2 stands out to me, I don't really think it is of any help in determining anyone's alignment.
#46: You had better not be serious.
#57: Good point about Benmage.
Mid-page 3: Yes, drmyshottyizsik is a VI. No, that does not mean that you can insult him or he should be lynched just for that. I'm not liking your play here.
#79: Town.
#82: That's not how I'm interpreting the question. I understood the question as asking how you came to the conclusion that drmyshottyizsik is a VI.
#90: Somebody knows my meta, as much as I hate it.
#92: OK, I've decided you're serious in #46. Let's break down why each and every one of your bullet points is scummy:

1. Not a scumtell.
   
2. Not a scumtell.
   
3. Vague.
   
4. No we don't. Additionally, trying to chase drmyshottyizsik off the site is cheap.

#97: What is noodle strategy?
#104: Why?
#124: Thank you for telling Kublai Khan that you are lazy.
Top of page 6: Strong town read on Lady Lambdadelta.
#140: I'm starting to see a redFF-Nero Cain connection here. Both want drmyshottyizsik policy lynched and neither are doing anything to convince anybody that he's actually scum, with Nero Cain trying to shift burden onto NihilisticNinja and redFF trying to stifle discussion.
#145: This isn't the bottom of the dumpster as the first sentence of drmyshottyizsik's post in question is trying to push what is effectively a meaningless statement as the reason he should not be lynched. I'm still not sold, though.
#153: So are you.
#154: For the love of God, if I were able to use a dayvig at this point, redFF would go this instant. Being a VI is not a scumtell and neither is not being liked.
#158: How do you get that redFF is talking about the possibility that Nero Cain is scum?
#166: That's a good idea, too.
#181: WIFOM.
#184: I think pregames like this can be a useful source of information as people have already looked at their alignment before posting.
#188: WIFOM.
#192: One of the ReaperCharlie games, yes? (The exact title's failing me right now.)
#210: Interesting that you open a page 9 Day 1 start with what appears to be an RVS.

This is through post #239. Any urgent matters that occured after that that you would like me to address, please speak up now, but redFF and Nero Cain come off the worst.

[StrangerCoug]

Does posting like that help you catch up or something? Because it isn't content but if it helps you then I'm all for it.

How is my post not content? Its purpose is clearly to voice what I think of what I've read so far.

[StrangerCoug]

I provided post numbers; the lack of links is not detrimental to the understanding of my post. It is at worst a slowdown.

[StrangerCoug]

#140: I'm starting to see a redFF-Nero Cain connection here. Both want drmyshottyizsik policy lynched and neither are doing anything to convince anybody that he's actually scum, with Nero Cain trying to shift burden onto NihilisticNinja and redFF trying to stifle discussion.

What the hell? A PL has nothing to do with being scum. You should know that, LLD should know that. This kind of discussion makes me think ya'll are defending for the towncred.

You are not reading. "I think your reasoning for wanting to lynch drmyshottyizsik is crap" ≠ "I think drmyshottyizsik is town." The only thing I have done that could remotely be considered as me passing any sort of judgment on drmyshottyizsik yet is agree with Benmage's statement that his first sentence in the first post of his ISO is fluff. You two could be bussing him for all I know.

I also don't see anything regarding my accusation of the shift of burden. If it's between post #240 and now, then I'll get to it, but if you've done nothing in that regard, now's a good time.

As for my not posting links, too bad.

Back to playing catch-up.

[StrangerCoug]

Through page 15. I think I need my head away from the game for a few moments, plus I have had a package come in the mail that I'm excited about. Again, speak up about any urgent matters.

I know about the lack of links; you're fully capable of checking back to what I'm talking about. I have, however, quoted small parts of two posts because I feel I'd lose you guys if I didn't... so slight bend

Bottom of page 10: It's interesting to me that Nero Cain has drmyshottyizsik and drmyshotgun confused, but due to the similarity of their names I can easily write this off as null.
#270: mastin2 gets a couple townpoints here upon reread of Firestarter's catchup post. I'm still having a lot of trouble wrapping my head around what he thinks, but this one is crystal clear.
#274: Strengthening of NihilisticNinja town read, especially regarding the "red herring".
#293: vijay2vasandani starts off on the wrong foot by not explaining his drmyshotgun vote.
#300:

Drmy needs vigged desperately.

Which one?
#308: I've kind of been wondering what's with Psyche in my readthrough, and this answers my questions.
#313: I disagree that it's ironic. The quote walls are offsetting to me, too.
#318: I dislike Benmage sticking himself over mastin2 on the totem pole here, especially since it's combined with a refusal to read his longer posts.
#332: ...OK, I can buy drmyshotgun-scum here. Unnecessary claim, and not I can easily buy given the site meta.
#354: scooby's reaction is surprising, but I can see it coming from town.
#356:

Drmy is p much confirmed town.

Which one?

[StrangerCoug]

Continuing on through the end of page 29:

#385: Understandable.
#391: Sold on Candy Corn Vampire's scumminess.
#393: You're still not doing much.
#399: Why should she? The shape of the Earth is not relevant to a Large Normal.
#408: Lady Lambdadelta did not give a comprehensive case of the shape of the Earth because it would be a waste of her time. That it is an oblate spheroid and that drmyshottyizsik is a VI are both common knowledge, while arguably true, is not valid justification for thinking LadyLambdadelta scummy for your refusal to explain why shotty is a VI (even though, as phrased, it's not a useful question anyway—it literally asks for what reason shotty is a VI, implying that it is a conscious choice that only drmyshottyizsik is qualified to explain).
Top of page 18: redFF is doing better. I like the push on CCV.
#431: This is a bit mindscrewy to me. You unvoted because you got too much support for the Kublai Khan wagon? Explain how that works to me.
#439: Flippant.
Top of page 19: Lady Lambdadelta vs. mastin2 comes off town vs. town to me.
Mid-top page 20: redFF vs. Firestarter stands out to me. While I think redFF is pretty much redeemed, I'm having a hard time deciding what to make of Firestarter here.
#488: As much as I hate Nero Cain's push on drmyshottyizsik, the latter makes a poor response to the former in this post. I can see how it can be a crossbus.
#497: I can make heads and tails out of the vote reason, though I think questioning a town read on yourself is more anti-town than strictly scummy.
#517: I don't like how the vote on Pine comes off. By itself, it seems like he's drawing a name out of a hat. (Then again, it's getting my bedtime here.)
#525: Why don't you want your posts read?
#532: No you are not.
#537 and #538: Despite my reading this with the knowledge that rack flipped down, I really cannot fault Macros here.
#577: I don't like the response to Macros here. Macros tries to get DeasVail to think on his own and DV responds back by voting him.
#583: Fluff.
#590: How should Benmage know?
#593: Possible, but needs further investigation.
#610: This post makes me want to blow Nero Cain's head off. He has yet to realize that we are not going to cater to his hatred and he's

STILL

doing this crap on page 25.
#611: Amen, sister.
#619: Vague.
#625: Looks like I replaced in on solid ground.
#657: I don't follow. A crummy vote, yes. A joke vote, I fail to see that.
#672: Not a big fan of the disclaimer. I also see a contradiction in the Nero Cain read.
Bottom of page 28/Top of page 29: Poor response by DeasVail to Junpei. You don't care that what you're saying is flawed!?
#720: The post sticks out, but I'm getting a neutral. mastin2 obviously isn't new, but that may be Junpei's point. The main thing I want to probe is why he thinks wiping everybody's slate clean and rereading is scummy.

As it stands, Nero Cain is my top scum read; DeasVail, and Psyche are good lynches in my opinion as well. I will not vote until done catching up, though.

[StrangerCoug]

@SC: Why are you writing comments about CCV?

Because one, I really only skimmed the player list, and two, because replacing out does not void my opinions on a player.

StrangerCoug:

Why didn't you see who died before reading through?

Similar to the above. I only skimmed the player list and I'm allowed to have opinions about the dead. (I only have "rack" and "the masons" as my mental notes on who is dead.)

No.

YOU

are not reading. This response makes no sense. You said that if me an red want a PL on shotty we should start explaining why he's scummy. You know darn well that a PL has absolutely nothing to do with scumminess. Then you cry "I NEVER SAID THAT I FELT SHOTTY WAS TOWN!!!" I said absolutely nothing about you finding shotty town. The hell did you get that? On second thought perhaps you got it from the town cred part. Regardless, a PL has nothing to do with him being scummy and it looks like you are defending him.

That I "know darn well that a PL has absolutely nothing to do with scumminess" is exactly why I find

YOU

scummy. Policy lynches rarely work. Even if it nets us a scum lynch, there still must be sound reasoning behind the policy lynch for us to get much information; that drmyshottyizsik is far from the sharpest knife in the drawer does not qualify. redFF has since relented and moved on; you, on the other hand, are still running your hate machine and expect us to fuel it. For me to defend drmyshottyizsik, I have to dispute that he is scummy. I am not doing so; in fact, I have come to my own conclusions as to why he is scummy (ironically, how he is responding to you; since I'm looking at the page your post is on, I can tell everybody that he's not responding admirably to mastin2, either). Try looking deeper than a player attacking a case on another player before assuming that it's a chainsaw defense.

I have dishes again, so catch-up time will have to wait.

[StrangerCoug]

Pages 30 to 35:

#732: I'm having trouble understanding the first sentence; could you clarify?
#735: WIFOM.
#758: Fluff at best. I want to say "appeal to fear" as well, but I'm not sure that's the right term. This slips redFF back down a bit.
#760: Something against Nero Cain that isn't remotely about policy lynches for once, but is still about a lynch. My first impression was a feel that NC is being flip-floppy about rack; upon immediate reread, he seems complacent about what he thought would be (and now knows is) a mislynch, calling him useless. This reads like scum trying to stay off a wagon he knows will flip town.
#772: If rack were still alive, I'd be yelling at DeasVail for applying stall tactics here. Since rack has since died, I'm trying to decide if this is the same problem I have with Nero Cain.
#777: I think the "pressure votes are meaningless without intent to lynch" shtick here is well-intended, but it fails to take into account that you can attack two people at one time. We are open-minded.
#782: How the hell do you get this? He thinks your number of scum on the rack wagon is too high. That's different from thinking you think there's scum on the rack wagon at all.
Bottom of page 32/Top of page 33: While I have a town read on Kublai Khan and a scum read on Psyche, their argument here really doesn't tip the balance in either direction. I find Kublai Khan's statement that Psyche quoted the answers to his questions flawed, but otherwise the case is good.
#809 and #810: Something pings here, but I can't quite pin it.
#838: This is a playstyle attack. Walls are pretty typical of Mastin.
#847: Stating that there are most likely two teams of four scum based on site meta and denying that there is one team of eight scum are legitimately two different things. I don't like that you're trying to pit the statements as contradictory.
#857: This is an overreaction to something that is clearly a joke.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm unable to get anything from page 36 to the flip, so this is for Day 2 up to page 50... with guess what?

#1014: The lurking accusation against LLD rings false. Regarding the comment about Lady Lambdadelta asking people to replace out, two of them make sense to me. She asked Nero Cain to replace out once GreyICE replaced in as he seemed to find GI intolerable, and she tried to get the mod to replace redFF for the homophobic slur, to which she should not have been subjected (and neither should have anybody else). Only mastin2 has been asked to replace out for reasons I cannot comprehend as townie.
#1024: No more reason to vote this slot.
#1027: How do you get this?
#1039: Dear God, I hate meta.
#1053: I fail to see how HezLucky is applying a double standard. Could you show this to me?
#1060: Why does pushing the Lady Lambdadelta case without knowing the nightkills make no sense?
#1081: I'm not liking the doubting Thomas here.
#1124: Good point.
#1129: The explanation of how a mason QT is very difficult to fake is obvtown.
#1132: The town read on mastin2, however, screws up here. Previously, you entertained both two teams of four and a single team of six; you're now saying it's the latter as if you know this.
#1135: A terrible Lady Lambdadelta case.

• What's on the label is not what's in the tin regarding what Lady Lambdadelta thinks about town reads. He bolds her statement that she thinks hydras outing heads is townie, which is entirely different from explaining town reads and therefore is compatible with her refusal for the latter.
  
• I have reservations about Lady Lambdadelta butting up to Antihero and then Antihero dying being inherently scummy. It's possible, but alone it tells me nothing.
  
• #1058 regards an entirely different wagon than Nero Cain discusses, his instead of her own.

#1136: Why are there blank player slots in the first spoiler?
#1157: I'm not that much happier about the numbers slip. The two-team possibility previously considered is not addressed in any way whatsoever.
#1162: Not what I get from Junpei's post.
#1164 and #1170: I could have sworn mastin2 was in Mafia 91, which had two teams of four, under his original account. I'd have to double-check that game, though, and it was a 30-player game instead of a 24-player game anyway.
#1183: Thanks! If anyone wants me to repost my previous catchup posts with the post links inserted, please let me know.
#1196: The last sentence tells me nothing.
#1197: How so?
#1203: I believe the claim.
#1235: I like the strong push on Junpei here.

[StrangerCoug]

Hurah, links! Now I can actually follow your thoughts.

If anyone wants me to repost my previous catchup posts with the post links inserted, please let me know.

What Nero did was say "Do you really think that X Y and Z could not contain at least 1 scum?" which is fundamentally flawed because it assigns arbitrary groups to a playerlist which should be assessed individually, not in sets. The purpose here is to make the set of XYZ appear to be scummy as a set, which is fundamentally flawed because mafia are investigated individually.

OK, this makes sense.

[StrangerCoug]

Well, I'd like to be clearly understood, so...

#37 I disagree here. As much as the top of page 2 stands out to me, I don't really think it is of any help in determining anyone's alignment.
#46: You had better not be serious.
#57: Good point about Benmage.
Mid-page 3: Yes, drmyshottyizsik is a VI. No, that does not mean that you can insult him or he should be lynched just for that. I'm not liking your play here.
#79: Town.
#82: That's not how I'm interpreting the question. I understood the question as asking how you came to the conclusion that drmyshottyizsik is a VI.
#90: Somebody knows my meta, as much as I hate it.
#92: OK, I've decided you're serious in #46. Let's break down why each and every one of your bullet points is scummy:

1. Not a scumtell.
   
2. Not a scumtell.
   
3. Vague.
   
4. No we don't. Additionally, trying to chase drmyshottyizsik off the site is cheap.

#97: What is noodle strategy?
#104: Why?
#124: Thank you for telling Kublai Khan that you are lazy.
Top of page 6: Strong town read on Lady Lambdadelta.
#140: I'm starting to see a redFF-Nero Cain connection here. Both want drmyshottyizsik policy lynched and neither are doing anything to convince anybody that he's actually scum, with Nero Cain trying to shift burden onto NihilisticNinja and redFF trying to stifle discussion.
#145: This isn't the bottom of the dumpster as the first sentence of drmyshottyizsik's post in question is trying to push what is effectively a meaningless statement as the reason he should not be lynched. I'm still not sold, though.
#153: So are you.
#154: For the love of God, if I were able to use a dayvig at this point, redFF would go this instant. Being a VI is not a scumtell and neither is not being liked.
#158: How do you get that redFF is talking about the possibility that Nero Cain is scum?
#166: That's a good idea, too.
#181: WIFOM.
#184: I think pregames like this can be a useful source of information as people have already looked at their alignment before posting.
#188: WIFOM.
#192: One of the ReaperCharlie games, yes? (The exact title's failing me right now.)
#210: Interesting that you open a page 9 Day 1 start with what appears to be an RVS.

Bottom of page 10: It's interesting to me that Nero Cain has drmyshottyizsik and drmyshotgun confused, but due to the similarity of their names I can easily write this off as null.
#270: mastin2 gets a couple townpoints here upon reread of Firestarter's catchup post. I'm still having a lot of trouble wrapping my head around what he thinks, but this one is crystal clear.
#274: Strengthening of NihilisticNinja town read, especially regarding the "red herring".
#293: vijay2vasandani starts off on the wrong foot by not explaining his drmyshotgun vote.
#300:

Drmy needs vigged desperately.

Which one?
#308: I've kind of been wondering what's with Psyche in my readthrough, and this answers my questions.
#313: I disagree that it's ironic. The quote walls are offsetting to me, too.
#318: I dislike Benmage sticking himself over mastin2 on the totem pole here, especially since it's combined with a refusal to read his longer posts.
#332: ...OK, I can buy drmyshotgun-scum here. Unnecessary claim, and not I can easily buy given the site meta.
#354: scooby's reaction is surprising, but I can see it coming from town.
#356:

Drmy is p much confirmed town.

Which one?

#385: Understandable.
#391: Sold on Candy Corn Vampire's scumminess.
#393: You're still not doing much.
#399: Why should she? The shape of the Earth is not relevant to a Large Normal.
#408: Lady Lambdadelta did not give a comprehensive case of the shape of the Earth because it would be a waste of her time. That it is an oblate spheroid and that drmyshottyizsik is a VI are both common knowledge, while arguably true, is not valid justification for thinking LadyLambdadelta scummy for your refusal to explain why shotty is a VI (even though, as phrased, it's not a useful question anyway—it literally asks for what reason shotty is a VI, implying that it is a conscious choice that only drmyshottyizsik is qualified to explain).
Top of page 18: redFF is doing better. I like the push on CCV.
#431: This is a bit mindscrewy to me. You unvoted because you got too much support for the Kublai Khan wagon? Explain how that works to me.
#439: Flippant.
Top of page 19: Lady Lambdadelta vs. mastin2 comes off town vs. town to me.
Mid-top page 20: redFF vs. Firestarter stands out to me. While I think redFF is pretty much redeemed, I'm having a hard time deciding what to make of Firestarter here.
#488: As much as I hate Nero Cain's push on drmyshottyizsik, the latter makes a poor response to the former in this post. I can see how it can be a crossbus.
#497: I can make heads and tails out of the vote reason, though I think questioning a town read on yourself is more anti-town than strictly scummy.
#517: I don't like how the vote on Pine comes off. By itself, it seems like he's drawing a name out of a hat. (Then again, it's getting my bedtime here.)
#525: Why don't you want your posts read?
#532: No you are not.
#537 and #538: Despite my reading this with the knowledge that rack flipped down, I really cannot fault Macros here.
#577: I don't like the response to Macros here. Macros tries to get DeasVail to think on his own and DV responds back by voting him.
#583: Fluff.
#590: How should Benmage know?
#593: Possible, but needs further investigation.
#610: This post makes me want to blow Nero Cain's head off. He has yet to realize that we are not going to cater to his hatred and he's

STILL

doing this crap on page 25.
#611: Amen, sister.
#619: Vague.
#625: Looks like I replaced in on solid ground.
#657: I don't follow. A crummy vote, yes. A joke vote, I fail to see that.
#672: Not a big fan of the disclaimer. I also see a contradiction in the Nero Cain read.
Bottom of page 28/Top of page 29: Poor response by DeasVail to Junpei. You don't care that what you're saying is flawed!?
#720: The post sticks out, but I'm getting a neutral. mastin2 obviously isn't new, but that may be Junpei's point. The main thing I want to probe is why he thinks wiping everybody's slate clean and rereading is scummy.

#732: I'm having trouble understanding the first sentence; could you clarify?
#735: WIFOM.
#758: Fluff at best. I want to say "appeal to fear" as well, but I'm not sure that's the right term. This slips redFF back down a bit.
#760: Something against Nero Cain that isn't remotely about policy lynches for once, but is still about a lynch. My first impression was a feel that NC is being flip-floppy about rack; upon immediate reread, he seems complacent about what he thought would be (and now knows is) a mislynch, calling him useless. This reads like scum trying to stay off a wagon he knows will flip town.
#772: If rack were still alive, I'd be yelling at DeasVail for applying stall tactics here. Since rack has since died, I'm trying to decide if this is the same problem I have with Nero Cain.
#777: I think the "pressure votes are meaningless without intent to lynch" shtick here is well-intended, but it fails to take into account that you can attack two people at one time. We are open-minded.
#782: How the hell do you get this? He thinks your number of scum on the rack wagon is too high. That's different from thinking you think there's scum on the rack wagon at all.
Bottom of page 32/Top of page 33: While I have a town read on Kublai Khan and a scum read on Psyche, their argument here really doesn't tip the balance in either direction. I find Kublai Khan's statement that Psyche quoted the answers to his questions flawed, but otherwise the case is good.
#809 and #810: Something pings here, but I can't quite pin it.
#838: This is a playstyle attack. Walls are pretty typical of Mastin.
#847: Stating that there are most likely two teams of four scum based on site meta and denying that there is one team of eight scum are legitimately two different things. I don't like that you're trying to pit the statements as contradictory.
#857: This is an overreaction to something that is clearly a joke.

And because I'm a sucker for everything being nice and in order:

I'm unable to get anything from page 36 to the flip, so this is for Day 2 up to page 50... with guess what?

#1014: The lurking accusation against LLD rings false. Regarding the comment about Lady Lambdadelta asking people to replace out, two of them make sense to me. She asked Nero Cain to replace out once GreyICE replaced in as he seemed to find GI intolerable, and she tried to get the mod to replace redFF for the homophobic slur, to which she should not have been subjected (and neither should have anybody else). Only mastin2 has been asked to replace out for reasons I cannot comprehend as townie.
#1024: No more reason to vote this slot.
#1027: How do you get this?
#1039: Dear God, I hate meta.
#1053: I fail to see how HezLucky is applying a double standard. Could you show this to me?
#1060: Why does pushing the Lady Lambdadelta case without knowing the nightkills make no sense?
#1081: I'm not liking the doubting Thomas here.
#1124: Good point.
#1129: The explanation of how a mason QT is very difficult to fake is obvtown.
#1132: The town read on mastin2, however, screws up here. Previously, you entertained both two teams of four and a single team of six; you're now saying it's the latter as if you know this.
#1135: A terrible Lady Lambdadelta case.

• What's on the label is not what's in the tin regarding what Lady Lambdadelta thinks about town reads. He bolds her statement that she thinks hydras outing heads is townie, which is entirely different from explaining town reads and therefore is compatible with her refusal for the latter.
  
• I have reservations about Lady Lambdadelta butting up to Antihero and then Antihero dying being inherently scummy. It's possible, but alone it tells me nothing.
  
• #1058 regards an entirely different wagon than Nero Cain discusses, his instead of her own.

#1136: Why are there blank player slots in the first spoiler?
#1157: I'm not that much happier about the numbers slip. The two-team possibility previously considered is not addressed in any way whatsoever.
#1162: Not what I get from Junpei's post.
#1164 and #1170: I could have sworn mastin2 was in Mafia 91, which had two teams of four, under his original account. I'd have to double-check that game, though, and it was a 30-player game instead of a 24-player game anyway.
#1183: Thanks! If anyone wants me to repost my previous catchup posts with the post links inserted, please let me know.
#1196: The last sentence tells me nothing.
#1197: How so?
#1203: I believe the claim.
#1235: I like the strong push on Junpei here.

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP: Forgot to mark #184.

[StrangerCoug]

Pages 51 on:

#1266: I don't follow. "Were not"? Are you sure you're talking about the right game?
#1276: Couldn't tell you, unfortunately. I'm unfamiliar with mastin-scum.
#1279: If mastin2 is "too scummy to be scum" (which is itself flawed), then why are you voting him?
#1292: IIoA stands for Information Instead of Analysis.
#1295: Not a fan of the bragging.
#1320: I don't think so. You need reasons to convince others of scum. Reads, in theory, could be pulled out of a hat (in practice, I can't think of a game where that's been allowed to happen).
#1340: Because I find his posts hard to wade through, too.
#1368: I like Kublai Khan's question, and redFF has slipped back into scum territory.
#1372: Why?
#1376: Wishy-washy.
#1381: As this is where I replace in, everything past this point is about stuff that happened during my readthrough that I have not properly addressed.
#1388: Crummy redFF vote.
Bottom of page 56: Now I'm worried. On the one hand, I still think redFF is scummy, but on the other hand I'm not liking the wagon here. If this is a multiball, as I believe mastin2 has slipped, then I'm almost positive that someone on the other scum team is voting redFF. There's really nothing pointing away from a redFF bus, though.
#1403: Nero Cain's attack on redFF here is actually pretty good. Not his saving grace, unfortunately, but more posts like this are going to make me reconsider my #2 scum read.
#1435: Examples?
#1444: I don't think it's scummy that Kublai Khan is not going to risk lynching a possible vigilante. It's better to rule out the vig possibility first.
#1485: I was going to wait until completely caught up, but as I am now, yes.

VOTE: mastin2. I'm sorry, but the way he'd been going about the number of scum/teams in the game is the straw that broke the camel's back, not to mention that I'm really unable to get anything out of his walls. Absent the slip, this would be a Nero Cain vote for his terrible cases on drmyshottyizsik and Lady Lambdadelta.

I'm not going to cry over a redFF, DeasVail, or Psyche lynch either.

[StrangerCoug]

@StrangerCoug - Thanks for the comprehensive review. Though what's your read on Pine?

Pine is null.

[StrangerCoug]

point is, you should know better. A pl is a policly lynch. You sitting there and saying that me and red should provide proof of him being scummy for a PL is absurd. Nor did I ever say anything about you thinkin' shotty was town. Nor am I still trying to for for a pl on shotty as you claim. Why are you putting words into my mouth?

You just don't get that I need proof of scumminess to support a lynch

AT ALL

, do you?

"Even if it nets us a scum lynch, there still must be sound reasoning behind the policy lynch for us to get much information"

A scum lynch is a scum lynch. It moves the town closer to a town wincon. Why would we have to have information before we lynch scum?

Because the less information we have to go on, the more harmful it is to town. I can see how we can get information about who was quick to lynch the person without talking about him or her much (opportunistic, scum wanting to get rid of a weaker player to avoid liability), but that's all I can come up with right now.

Your bus theory is pretty retarded. You believe that me and red decided to pl shotty in the queue thread, before any of us had roles, and then all three of us were given scum pms....the odds of that happening are astronomical.

I don't care about what happened in the queue thread. I care about what happened here.

I have to ask you about your shotty scumread. As far as I can tell 488 is the only time you express that he's scummy. The case (shotty is scummy for weak replys to Nero and Mastin and (I think) they are crossbussin') is a pretty weak case or is there more to it? Would my town flip make you change your read on shotty? Why did he not make your list of scum reads/lynchs in 1453?

drmyshottyizsik is a suboptimal lynch right now.

As far as I know I never called shotty scummy or put a case on him. Why then are you saying that you are attacking the shotty case? (hint:if there's not one you can't attack it) If anything you are attacking me. Not any case. Please quote were I called shotty scum and put a case on him.

I'll take the hint as a scum claim from you.

Now defend your crappy-as-all-hell #1135.

[StrangerCoug]

And I like how you did the same to me. Now go bus mastin2.

[StrangerCoug]

SSC, whats your opinion on rack?

Dead. Your name can be added to the "not gonna cry if this person gets lynched" list for not reading.

[StrangerCoug]

By the way I should add that what makes Kublai especially suspect on this page is his complete personality change; to me his posting looks like he's trying too hard to think I'm scum and that Mastin isn't. Nothing feels genuine here.

*brain explodes*

[StrangerCoug]

By the way I should add that what makes Kublai especially suspect on this page is his complete personality change; to me his posting looks like he's trying too hard to think I'm scum and that Mastin isn't. Nothing feels genuine here.

*brain explodes*

Elaborate?

I don't follow you. Could you demonstrate what you're talking about?

[StrangerCoug]

Benmage has now upped himself to my #3 scum pick. You're not unlike Mastin was with the number of supposed scum.

[StrangerCoug]

Benmage has now upped himself to my #3 scum pick. You're not unlike Mastin was with the number of supposed scum.

Can you explain this further....

You claimed to forget that rack was the Day 1 lynch this late in Day 2. When you said you pulled who was in the game from an old draft list, you had said he was under a different category than he was in the list you posted. Even if the forgetfulness is not, in fact, feigned, it tells me that you are not reading this game.

The VC looks weird, because I dont even see SSC on it.

Heh. So I'm not.

Backup mod: Do you secretly hate me?

[StrangerCoug]

Oh, both my online name and my real name get slaughtered all the time.

In game-relevant news, I like the point you make against drmyshottyizsik, and I often think my posts over as both town and scum.

[StrangerCoug]

SSC, whats your opinion on rack?

Dead. Your name can be added to the "not gonna cry if this person gets lynched" list for not reading.

There a reason you keep avoiding everything that anyone asks/requests of you?

Yeah. The same reason you keep blowing off everything non-drmyshottyizsik related that I yell at you for. Are you conceding that the Lady Lambdadelta case is crap? Are you going to try again? Or have you failed to realize that it never held any water?

[StrangerCoug]

Point me to the outstanding questions and I will answer.

[StrangerCoug]

Why are you putting words into my mouth?

Once again, for me to "defend" someone, I have to think a player is town. By claiming that I am defending drmyshottyizsik, you posit that I believe he is. I have my doubts right now.

I'll admit that the fact that it's a topic of discussion again is skewing my beliefs, but there was never a reason to PL

ANYONE

. You took roughly the same attitude toward shotty as you did to my immediate predecessor. A look at your ISO reveals that the shotty PL was not, in fact, a topic of discussion for awhile before I replaced in, so I'll take that as an error on my part and drop it.

I have to ask you about your shotty scumread. As far as I can tell 488 is the only time you express that he's scummy. The case (shotty is scummy for weak replys to Nero and Mastin and (I think) they are crossbussin') is a pretty weak case

or is there more to it?

I had nothing else on him.

Would my town flip make you change your read on shotty?

If you flip town, as your question is phrased, then no; if you flip scum, however, then I have less of a reason than I already do to push for drmyshottyizsik.

Why did he not make your list of scum reads/lynchs in 1453?

Answered already. Lynching him is suboptimal right now, so I

WOULD

cry if he gets the rope. Of the people I suspect, he's the one on which I have the weakest read.

As far as I know I never called shotty scummy or put a case on him.

Why then are you saying that you are attacking the shotty case?

(hint:if there's not one you can't attack it) If anything you are attacking me. Not any case.

Please quote were I called shotty scum and put a case on him.

A sample of your statements regarding drmyshottyizsik:

he's a VI and they make great early game lynches.

ummmm...ever game I've played with him. Its common site knowledge that he's a VI. Why are you seemingly defending a shotty pl?

For anybody to be a decent lynch, they have to be scum. I am led to believe you seriously meant to carry out the lynch and you have been attacking people against it. Lynching someone for being a village idiot is not a valid case; this is why I implied that you shot yourself in the foot after the first time you asked this.

[StrangerCoug]

I find some elements of Nero Cain's explanation for finding Lady Lambdadelta scummy, especially regarding explaining town reads, sufficient enough to knock him down a slot or two in my scumlist. I still think he's significantly scummier than her, though.

[StrangerCoug]

I still think he's significantly scummier than her, though.

Well you should!!! Considering you once said you had a strong LLD town read on her. Has that changed?

Other than you succeeding in killing my obvtown read on her, no. She's still high up there. Despite TML's innocent, she's not really "confirmed" in any sense.

and stop posting elsewhere on the site and post here, kdowns.

Thank you for bringing his lurking to our attention.

FoS: kdowns

Is drmyshottyizsik usually this useless?

Yeah.

I've seen like the entire scum team replacing out. And that was my second completed game. So, Deasvail's Scums =/= Replace Out theory, is invalid.

I don't understand this at all. He clearly stated that scum do indeed replace out; it's just that he believes that, under the circumstances, my slot is probably town given GreyICE's replacing out.

[StrangerCoug]

You took the words right out of my mouth, Lady Lambdadelta.

[StrangerCoug]

because I wasn't being serious guys. cut me

some

slack here.

No. You claim an innocent cop result on a player and then backtrack over it, saying you're not serious? What kind of shenanigans is this?

UNVOTE: mastin2
VOTE: The Mini-Librarian

[StrangerCoug]

SC:

If you thought TML was implying a cop innocent on LLD, why did you bring it up?

You cannot, by definition, imply something stated outright. By stating you "have a cop inno" on a player, you claim cop with an innocent result. That's about as plain as it gets.

@SC:

Let's see. That post had an emoticon, the next words after that were "

seriously though

" and I finished out the post by giving reasons completely seperate from me being a "cop" why I thought LLD was town.

Yep, totally a serious claim.

That my sense of humor is shot is conceded, but joking around claiming you are a certain role in a Mafia game is like joking around claiming you have a bomb at an airport. You cannot do either without serious repercussions. I stand by my vote, no matter how unpopular.

DV's is the scummiest hop so far. Not that he hopped, but how he did it.
It reminds me so much of my bandwagoning on D1 mislynches. A very sparse — the minimum for the ambitious scum, which makes me think gunny is town — justification for the wagon to show that it makes you uneasy and to avoid commitment...

Eh.

That's a good point to bring up, especially when I interpreted his vote as sheeping me despite him getting a chance to comment about the claim first.

His "LLD is town since unflipped Nero is attacking her" is just pathetic.

Quoted for truth.

I see Nero's case on me. Will respond to it tomorrow game day (god willing) as it will just clog up the thread today.

Why should we let you live that long?

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP: Scatch the response to Psyche; I misinterpreted DeasVail as Nero Cain.

[StrangerCoug]

kdowns replaced Macros right? Maybe we should see if Mastin's theory is correct.

Unvote
Vote: KDowns

I'm sorry. It's four in the morning and my brain isn't awake yet. What theory?

[StrangerCoug]

#1164 and #1170: I could have sworn mastin2 was in Mafia 91, which had two teams of four, under his original account. I'd have to double-check that game, though, and it was a 30-player game instead of a 24-player game anyway.

even if he was, why is this scummy?

That is not part of my case on mastin2. Yes, one of us has his facts wrong about other games, but that was a game from 2009 and it's possible neither one of us has a clear memory of the scum teams in that game.

That my sense of humor is shot is conceded, but joking around claiming you are a certain role in a Mafia game is like joking around claiming you have a bomb at an airport. You cannot do either without serious repercussions. I stand by my vote, no matter how unpopular.

So do you actually think he is scum or what?

Yes.

[StrangerCoug]

There's not going to BE a shotgun lynch because he's town.

There's not going to be a DV lynch because DV's town!

And this tells us what?

You're not really doing much of anything, are you DV?

Not really, no.

What should I be doing?

You're asking me to unvote the jokeclaimant and vote you instead. I've seen you be more useful than this.

It goes without saying that those of you not voting Junpei or Pine need to pick a wagon ASAP.

If you are absolutely having trouble, look at the people who are on teh Pine wagon, and the Junpei wagon, and decide which wagon is more likely to be town-driven. Then join it. There is no reason to not be on one of these two wagons right now.

If somebody were to put a gun to my head and say "pick one of these two now or die", I'd be more inclined to vote Pine than Junpei due to my town read on the latter, but as I am lost as to what the cases on them are, I really do not feel comfortable about voting either one. I'm the kind of person who would like to try to come to my own conclusions and I refuse to merely sheep a wagon.

My thoughts:

1. Psyche Merry or Pippin
2. Kublai Khan Boromir
3. scooby Angry Smeagol
4. FakeGod poor me
5. OhGodMyLife Theoden
6. The Mini-Librarian Denethor
8. DeasVail Legolas
9. kdowns Samwise
10. Code_X Merry or Pippin
11. Benmage either Gandalf the grey or Saruman
12. Pine Gollum
13. drmyshottyizsik Bilbo Baggins
14. HezLucky Merry or Pippin
15. drmyshotgun Frodo Baggins
16. Nero Cain Faramir or Sauron
17. redFF Eomer or Uruk-hai captain
19. mastin2 Either Elrond or Balrog
20. Lady Lambdadelta Galadriel
21. Junpei Either Aragorn or Ringwraith
22. Maxous Gimli
24. StrangerCoug Either Gandalf the white or Treebeard

I would vote pine over Junpei.

I agree with drmyshotgun here. Do not assume everybody knows about Lord of the Rings. Could you convert that to a town/scum scale, please?

[StrangerCoug]

grandma passed so I'll be be travling to Nashville and doing the wake + funeral. I''l be back tuesday.

Condolences.

I'd like Seacore to catch up before I consider voting him.

[StrangerCoug]

@SC

: If forced to do so right now would you rather vote for pine or junpei?

I already answered that question before you even asked it:

If somebody were to put a gun to my head and say "pick one of these two now or die", I'd be more inclined to vote Pine than Junpei due to my town read on the latter

My reads will not be really useful later on. I'm a VT replacing into a game and about to be lynched, what insight will that give?

This stands out, but I'm having trouble making a firm decision whether this is townie or scummy. I want to say townie, but I really do want Seacore to give a valiant effort into scumhunting and not just throw in the towel.

[StrangerCoug]

UNVOTE: The Mini Librarian

Still want cases on Pine/Seacore and Junpei.

[StrangerCoug]

Howdy,
I've got a pretty busy weekend going at the moment, with an out of state wedding to go to. So expect me to start getting caught up in a few days. But don't expect me to get 'caught up' caught up. It'll be some ISOs and a skim.

Could somebody please outline the case on Junpei? I don't really care about the case on me, I can't defend Pine's actions.

He knew that we were the two wagons of the day for sure. Yet he doesn't vote me. What changed 10 minutes and zero posts later?

Perhaps he read the vote count in that time span? Why are you acting naïve?

VOTE: Junpei

This is not a good reaction to Seacore's vote or Lady Lambdadelta's case on you. As I am not touching Seacore with a ten-foot pole until he's caught up, this is where I feel more comfortable with my vote.

[StrangerCoug]

Not at this point. I'd pretty much see a stalemate.

[StrangerCoug]

Well I think that there exist a key number of people who are voting me because Pine is replaced out.

I will replace out if that's what it takes to get Pine lynched, not me. State if this applies to you and we'll see how many swing votes we got.

This is not a game of chicken. You stay right here and convince us not to lynch you.

[StrangerCoug]

StrangerCoug seems to be opportunistic and not wanting to trip wires.

Here's a hint next time you're in a game: These are two different things.

[StrangerCoug]

StrangerCoug seems to be opportunistic and not wanting to trip wires.

Here's a hint next time you're in a game: These are two different things.

Here's a hint next time you read my post: They didn't happen simultaneously.

Very well then, show me where I was opportunistic, and then show me something different where I wasn't tripping wires.

[StrangerCoug]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p4037841
Opportunistic

You really did come off naïve in the post I quoted in that post. It comes off as a failure to account for the possibility that Seacore did not, in fact, take a close look at the votecount, even though he clearly knew that he and your predecessor were the main topics of discussion. Your reaction comes off as "What the hell?" as if Seacore had another viable option.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p4021112
This is maybe the only post that isn't not being aggressive or more importantly the only one that is using real conviction. I mean the staples of your ISO are an argument about policy lynches and a post hoc catchup post (As if they couldn't be post hoc, but still).

"Isn't not being aggressive"? As in that post is passive and everything else is aggressive? Are you sure you're awake?

If you mean what I think you mean, I'm the kind of person who likes to keep things short and sweet. If you're wondering why I haven't been very talkative in this thread, I'm not talkative in real life either. However, as I cannot use the "real life is boring" excuse here (not only because I'm expected to put an effort into this game, but also because I pretty much have an Internet addiction to blame for it), I

DO

try to look for things that I think are worthy of discussion.

[StrangerCoug]

1) Your vote is bad because you had been on the fence about me/seacore previously.

True, but keep in mind that I was still

LESS

inclined to vote you than Pine. You killed my town read on you by acting surprised about Seacore's vote on you when you were the only contender than him. It is worsened by you taking advantage of my refusal to vote Seacore because he was catching up and offering to replace out so I would vote him. It wasn't going to work before you pulled that stunt, and it isn't going to work now.

2) Isn't not being aggressive clearly means that post is aggresive-ish and the rest is passive. Are you sure you're awake?

The way the post was worded was confusing. I was trying to put two and two together.

As for your explanation, it seems like you looked at it and rewrote it a few times. Please confirm if this is true for me.

I rewrote sections of it before posting, yes. Why is that scummy?

[StrangerCoug]

I rewrote sections of it before posting, yes. Why is that scummy?

I didn't say it was scummy, did I?

Then why did you bring it up?

CONFIRM VOTE SEACORE

Could you be any more useless? I really don't see your face all that often.

Kublai Khan's last post stands out to me, but that requires me to take a closer look at Seacore before I pass judgment on it.

[StrangerCoug]

Let's go back to a VOTE: Nero Cain. I still dislike his apathy toward the Day 1 lynch and Lady Lambdadelta case. (On the other hand, I've become dispassionate about mastin2 and The Mini-Librarian, but Junpei is still pretty high up.)

To all who claim to need to play catchup: You have 72 hours, then I'm going to stop being sympathetic to your needs.

[StrangerCoug]

My main case on him is how he went about the Seacore lynch. He reacted to the vote on him as if there were other viable options from Seacore's point of view. He wasn't going to self-vote, so why the surprise?

[StrangerCoug]

Howdy,
I've got a pretty busy weekend going at the moment, with an out of state wedding to go to. So expect me to start getting caught up in a few days. But don't expect me to get 'caught up' caught up. It'll be some ISOs and a skim.

Could somebody please outline the case on Junpei? I don't really care about the case on me, I can't defend Pine's actions.

He knew that we were the two wagons of the day for sure. Yet he doesn't vote me. What changed 10 minutes and zero posts later?

Quoting your post doesn't answer my question. It tells me

THAT

you were surprised, not

WHY

you were surprised.

You think I'm town but you like SC's vote on me. lololololololol

sigh

This is a great example of one of the big issues with this game: People like Nero frustrating people like DeasVail by using absolutely shitty logic.

Nero Cain actually sold me here, though it's for something he's basically guilty of himself. DeasVail thinks Nero Cain is somewhat town, yet finds my vote acceptable—a similar issue I have with Nero Cain's not caring about rack's alignment at the end of Day 1.

He's seen my scum play. I attack my buddies pretty often (self meta, not great I know) but me knowing this I got a pretty big kick out of Jun saying that me and Mastin were scum b/c I barely mentioned him.

You should know I don't like meta, I get "a pretty big kick out of" you suggesting I care about your meta beyond the fact that you're highly immature.

Not happy with the

ad hominem

at the end of this post.

Junpei is town.

Pretty sure this guy is scum.

VOTE: Nero Cain

I would love to have even the simplest of reasons for both of those statements.

Quoted for truth.

If this is indeed a multiball, then I highly suspect that Nero Cain and Junpei are on opposing scum teams. (I am completely unable to support either being an SK, so with a single Mafia team I can more easily cut out Junpei.)

[StrangerCoug]

Quoting your post doesn't answer my question. It tells me THAT you were surprised, not WHY you were surprised.

I was surprised that he DIDN'T immediately vote me. I was surprised that it took a 10 minute pause and another post to do so. I was surprised that he initially had the mindset that he wasn't going to vote me.

This still tells me nothing new. I already know the what; I want to know the why.

It's possible to think X is scum and think that Y's vote on X is good (good reasons, looks town).

DeasVail is leaning

TOWN

on Nero Cain. Therefore, it is odd that he supports my vote on him.

[StrangerCoug]

This still tells me nothing new. I already know the what; I want to know the why.

..Because he should probably want to vote me just based on a simple fact which he expressed knowledge of at the time of the first post, yet he did not. I felt that if he were town he would have acted with a vote in THAT post, rather than mysteriously wait 10 minutes and then vote based on the aforementioned simple fact.

OK, this makes better sense.

Well my play this game pretty much confirms me as town on its own so you suspecting me and keeping me in the lynch pool is SCUMMY!

In what way does your play confirm you as town?

I sold you on what?

You think I'm town but you like SC's vote on me. lololololololol

When you pointed this out, I looked at DeasVail again and saw it strange. What I get from DeasVail's defense is that he even though he disagrees that you are the best lynch, my vote isn't damning to him in any way, which, as your post that appeared in one of my preview edits states, still looks bad, no matter how slight his town read on you supposedly is.

[StrangerCoug]

We should just speed one lynch of these three or maybe all three! Let's do it. Save the game from complete irritation.

Drmyshottyizsik
Kdowns
Scooby

We're just as likely to spend three weeks arguing over some bollocks case for Junpei or Nero and then mis-lynching. Let's get it done in one day.

And Maybe even FakeGod and Psyche could perish.

I'd also like RedFF to die though seem to be the only one.

Next we can off Mastin for crimes against the human eye. Too many words = glaze over everything. Is probably scum but spews so much shit everyone gets hypnotized and then seems to ignore.

Do it.

And this plan of action is supposed to help us how, exactly? You cannot use frustration over people's failing to get anywhere with cases on one set of players as the reason to go after another set, much less clear the first.

UNVOTE: Nero Cain
VOTE: Code_X

My vote's not coming off until you post cases on all seven people you advocate lynching. And don't give me this "too many words" crap for mastin2. That's his playstyle.

[StrangerCoug]

My vote's not coming off until you post cases on all seven people you advocate lynching.

Good luck.

I'm not doing it.

Lynch me if you want - but do it quickly - like today. Like now. Like maybe ISO me and Ninja and then if I'm the scummiest get everyone to lynch me. I can't be arsed. If that's supposed to be non-town then so be it. I'm sick to fuck of this game and the amount of pages and posts in it. Am I the only one? Perhaps I should ask for replacement so someone else can come in and spend 5 hours reading through the thread.

I'll give some thought to posting my opinions, but I'm not posting cases on seven players - why the fuck should I put the effort in when 50% of the players have put in less effort.

I'm saying we have plenty of content people who want to extend the game by posting another 20 pages of basically nothing are just dredging things out and making it even more annyoing/irritating for those of that are town. At this point another fortnight of waffling about and posting is not pro-town.

You cannot just throw out a set of names and expect us to take your word for it that they're scum. That is not how this game works and you know it. By refusing to comply with my perfectly reasonable request, you contribute to the very problem that you're complaining about. If

YOU

think they're scum, it is

YOUR

responsibility to prove that they are.

I've posted a case on Red before it got shot down in flames. He's not done anything since to make me change mind considerably.

Could you repost it?

Mastin posts far too much shite/theory and just drowns everyone out - if he does this as town then he's a bad player,

Anti-town ≠ scummy.

he seems to know the exact make of numbers in the scum teams which is scummy.

The numbers issue I've advocated previously. OK.

Psyche/FakeGod purely haven't contributed and both have suspect voting patterns. Both I'd have no problem with if they lynched.

I agree that the lurker problem needs to be solved, but how are the voting patterns suspect?

[StrangerCoug]

OK, I think my pressure vote has served its purpose. I'm reverting back.

UNVOTE: Code_X
VOTE: Nero Cain

[StrangerCoug]

OK, I think my pressure vote has served its purpose. I'm reverting back.

UNVOTE: Code_X
VOTE: Nero Cain

What do you make of my seven?

I agree that we need to deal with the lurkers soon (drmyshottyizsik, FakeGod, Psyche, scooby, arguably kdowns), and I share a concern you have with Mastin. I'm in disagreement with redFF, but he's not top town.

[StrangerCoug]

Time to switch. I'm not getting any support for Nero Cain, but there is support for somebody I've suspected since the end of Day 2.

UNVOTE: Nero Cain
VOTE: Junpei

I don't care about the vote count.

[StrangerCoug]

The more apathy I sense in this game, the more I support lurker lynching, though Junpei still needs to go regardless of his activity.

Mod: Massprod please.

[StrangerCoug]

Are you sure that's legal?

[StrangerCoug]

I was able to get ahold of the thread before he deleted it and reposted it here. As you can see, he doesn't mention this game, but we may still want a mod ruling on whether it's unfairly influencing the game.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm confident we're looking at 1 scum team + a SK or 1 scum team + a vig.

Thoughts?

I see your logic as to why you don't think there are two scum teams, but I doubt a vig. Neither of the Day 1 kills stood out as scum to me, Kublai Khan was strong town, and drmyshotgun was a claimed power role, albeit a somewhat useless one.

[StrangerCoug]

Unless given clear evidence to the contrary, I assume people are reasonable, not stupid.

[StrangerCoug]

Fallman7 has plenty of breathing room. While the clearest lynch candidate at this time with more than a quarter of the votes, he should be free of concerns of a quickhammer. If he isn't, I'm going to chew out the five people that jump on him without giving him a chance to catch up.

[StrangerCoug]

Don't you have a scumread on FG? Why demean my scumread on him then?

You do know this is multiball right? Since its multiball its possible for one scum to find other scum. Its also plausible for you to be bussin' for town cred.

How do

YOU

know this is a multiball? All we know about the setup are that there are two kills. Everything else is speculation—for example, even though I'm a strong opponent of there being a vig, what keeps one from being a lousy shot?

UNVOTE: Fallman7
VOTE: Nero Cain

[StrangerCoug]

Yeah. Go ahead and laugh your way into your grave, outed scum.

[StrangerCoug]

yep

SRS, large game. The majority of large games have two scum teams and or 1 scum team and a sk. I am

NOT

going to believe this is 1 scum team + vig, if there were three kills I'd buy a vig but with only two. no

I don't believe one scum team + vig either, but a multiball is a two-scum game. Town shouldn't know whether we have two scumteams yet.

[StrangerCoug]

yep

SRS, large game. The majority of large games have two scum teams and or 1 scum team and a sk. I am

NOT

going to believe this is 1 scum team + vig, if there were three kills I'd buy a vig but with only two. no

I don't believe one scum team + vig either, but a multiball is a two-scum game. Town shouldn't know whether we have two scumteams yet.

multiball is two anti-town factions. Both 2 scum teams or scumteam + SK is multiball. You are correct that I don't

know

but its an educated guess and at this point it seems the only logical thing to believe.

Give me a third-party statement that a multiball can be one Mafia plus a serial killer and I will revert to Fallman7.

V/LA for the holidays. I'll be back monday evening EDT.

@SC: Why are you voting NC for speculating about multiball when he's essentially sheeping Mastin about the same point?

I am not voting Nero Cain for

SPECULATING

that this is a multiball; I am voting him for

STATING

that this is a multiball. The reason I brought up speculation is because that's all town can really do with the setup right now and Nero Cain appears to know something we don't about it.

[StrangerCoug]

Anything fair game goes.

[StrangerCoug]

StrangerCoug-

Do you think the kills themselves could give an indication of whether it's multiball or not?

In most cases, but not all. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. While it requires scum to be either really inattentive or really unlucky, one kill could go off each night in a multiball and we'd only learn it's a multiball through the Mafia factions having names once we have flipped scum. Three kills a night? Could be Mafia-SK-vig. Four or more kills a night, though, and for it not to be a multiball requires either some of the kills to be indirect (and that assumes the game is not bastard mod) or the game to be unbalanced.

Why am I talking about the improbable, though? This is all Mafia theory and my vote on Nero Cain is based on what he seems to

KNOW

rather than have guessed about the setup.

[StrangerCoug]

Its the only logical fucking explanation. There's no fucking vig. Those shots were terrible. Can a vig be terrible? Sure. Like I said if there were three shots I would buy a terrible vig. But with two shots and most if not all large games being mutli-scum (mafi team, cult, SK) The chances of us having an everyday vig are -99.9%.

You can stop preaching to the choir. It's been clear since before I voted you that I don't see a vig as likely. The reason for my vote is because you said it was a multiball, which I define as two Mafia teams. Not a single Mafia team and a serial killer—two Mafia teams. I have asked you to supply me with a third-party statement that a single Mafia team and a serial killer can constitute a multiball and you have not done so. Until you do this, I consider you to be

outed scum

. The presence or absence of a vig was never relevant as we both disagree there is one—the current argument is a dispute over whether or not a single Mafia team and an SK is a multiball.

I'm tempted to be the days lynch just so I can flip town and laugh at how fucking terrible you are.

Nice appeal to fear. You are not going to laugh—if you're town,

YOU

are the stupid one with your complete lack of comprehension about Mafia terminology. Now die.

[StrangerCoug]

How is my attack on him shit? Leaking setup information that town does not know is a very strong indicator of scum and that's what I feel Nero Cain has done by saying it is a multiball. You may do my request for Nero Cain for him, but unless and until I get a statement from outside of the game made by neither Nero Cain nor me that says a multiball can consist of one Mafia team and a serial killer, my vote is not budging.

[StrangerCoug]

You may do my request for Nero Cain for him, but unless and until I get a statement from outside of the game made by neither Nero Cain nor me that says a multiball can consist of one Mafia team and a serial killer, my vote is not budging.

For the record this is wrong, what other people define as multi-ball is irrelevant.

It's only important what Nero beleives the term refers to.

I thought the term's meaning was standardized...

Oh yeah, and SC's accusation that only scum would assume it's multiball is not good.

This is not my case on Nero Cain. "Assume" implies that Nero Cain does not know for a fact that this is a multiball—he merely thinks it the most probable. By what he told The Mini-Librarian, it

IS

, thus revealing a certainty about the setup that only scum can have.

For the record though I think multiball is any game with more than one kill a night from different factions.

I also find it pretty funny that you want

me

to find a statement that states multiball doesn't have to be just two mafia teams but

YOU

can't find a statement that defines multiball as 2 mafia teams and

ONLY

two mafia teams. Shouldn't the burden of proof be on you?

Very well then, I will present what leads me to believe that a multiball is a two-scumteam game: Although doing a search for "multiball" on the wiki fails to come up with a page specifically defining the term, these three setups come up, which have in common either two Mafia teams or a Mafia team and a werewolf team; the designation "werewolf" simply being a retheming from Mafia.

Well it looks like we are both a little wrong and right. Empking says it refers to multiple kills from anti-town (group) factions so the way I interpreted that was it could still be a Cultafia or a group of SK's like Lock Lamora used in his WWE game. The co-mod says that Fonz (who came up with the term) defines it as two scumteams. So I guess you're right though I think its pretty ridiculous that it HAS to be a group kill. A kill is a kill. Doesn't matter if it comes from a group or not. Oh well.

Now that we've established that we were on different pages and have now come to the same one, the fairest thing to do is to UNVOTE: Nero Cain.
VOTE: Fallman7 as promised.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Delete the quote tags from Maxous.

~Fixed.

[StrangerCoug]

Very well then, I will present what leads me to believe that a multiball is a two-scumteam game: Although doing a search for "multiball" on the wiki fails to come up with a page specifically defining the term, these three setups come up, which have in common either two Mafia teams or a Mafia team and a werewolf team; the designation "werewolf" simply being a retheming from Mafia.

I did the same thing, though in my defense I see people in games yell, anytime there are multiple nightkills, "THIS IS MULTIBALL!!!". So I though it refereed to any game with multiple killing factions and was a "catch all" type phrase like scum is.

We do need a catch-all term for when there are multiple kills a night, though. If you still want to link me to a game where town said it's a multiball with evidence of multiple kills but not two scum teams yet, you certainly can, though I no longer see it as a requirement to you being town.

I, on the other hand, need to fine-tune my definition of a slip...

[StrangerCoug]

Holy Fuck I'm not doing this deadline lynch bullshit again.

Junpei was scum.

Fallman CLAIMED SCUM IN HIS FIRST POST. THAT POST ONLY HAS SCUM MOTIVATION. SURVIVALISM IS A SCUM MOTIVATED PLAY.

HE DIDN'T SAY "LET ME SCUM HUNT". HE EXPLICTLY SAID HE WOULDN'T!

WE ARE LYNCHING FALLMAN TODAY. I WON'T LET SCUM DERAIL THIS LYNCH!

When he flips town, I'd like to lynch LLD.

unvote vote Fallman

IF he flips town I would rather lynch you given the level of confidence that you are pretending to have (considering you haven't even read the game)

Good comeback.

[StrangerCoug]

Of course not, silly! Are you going to contribute something actually useful?

[StrangerCoug]

DV, with three days to deadline you're trying desperately to start a counterwagon on me out of thin air.

I didn't realize it was so close. It feels too much like early- or midday and I still see no group cohesion in this game. If we do not step up, we will lose. That's what happened in The 100 Boxes Reboot—apathetic town led to a Mafia win. This is why I'm fine lynching lurkers for the sake of getting the game moving.

[StrangerCoug]

DV, with three days to deadline you're trying desperately to start a counterwagon on me out of thin air.

I didn't realize it was so close. It feels too much like early- or midday and I still see no group cohesion in this game. If we do not step up, we will lose. That's what happened in The 100 Boxes Reboot—apathetic town led to a Mafia win. This is why I'm fine lynching lurkers for the sake of getting the game moving.

This. It helps that several of the lurkers are scummy as fuck though. The only wagon I see through today is fallman. Who should we wagon tomorrow, SC?

I worry the most about FakeGod.

[StrangerCoug]

Ok I'm just a vanilla bystander for this matter. What I was trying to say is that I wanted to start scum hunting on a new day since I was replacing someone. The only one that I am quite suspicious of at this point is ladylambdadelta I hope I spelled that right but I am suspicious of him alone. That's all I can say. Hammer if you choose.

Here's a little hint: Somebody whose name starts with the word "lady" is most likely female, as is the case here.

Happy with the lynch.

[StrangerCoug]

Holy Fuck I'm not doing this deadline lynch bullshit again.

Junpei was scum.

Fallman CLAIMED SCUM IN HIS FIRST POST. THAT POST ONLY HAS SCUM MOTIVATION. SURVIVALISM IS A SCUM MOTIVATED PLAY.

HE DIDN'T SAY "LET ME SCUM HUNT". HE EXPLICTLY SAID HE WOULDN'T!

WE ARE LYNCHING FALLMAN TODAY. I WON'T LET SCUM DERAIL THIS LYNCH!

When he flips town, I'd like to lynch LLD.

unvote vote Fallman

Now that LLD is dead...

VOTE: Benmage
Why did you vote someone you claimed, and we all now know, was town?

[StrangerCoug]

I agree that TML should claim.

From the mafia perspective, they should have thought it possible that TML did indeed have a cop innocent on LLD considering their knowledge of LLD being godfather. It's possible they wanted to wait for TML to actually claim an innocent result on LLD, but if they killed TML and he flipped as some sort of cop, it would have been obvious that LLD was an innocent result, so there shouldn't have been any need to keep him alive.

On top of that, having a godfather on their team would have indicated that there must be a cop, so my big question is, why is TML still alive? There is obviously a reason for mafia keeping him around. The only thing I can think of is that they had information (rolecop/track result) suggesting TML was not a cop, and that's why they didn't kill him.

So yes, I think a claim is necessary, because I don't think it will change the chances of mafia night-killing him and will only help us read him.

That makes very good sense.

I don't see that StrangerCoug is saying that, at all. It looks more like StrangerCoug is accusing Benmage of voting for Fallman7, knowing all the time that it would be a mislynch.

That's true, but HezLucky is acting on my mention that the person Benmage wanted to lynch after Fallman7 was lynched is dead scum.

Why did you vote someone you claimed, and we all now know, was town?

He was obviously town. Dur.

So we should all be lynching townies so the Mafia can win, eh? Yeah.

CLEARLY

shows whose side you're on.

Benmage is our lynch today, ladies and gentlemen. I won't be upset about The Mini-Librarian being lynched, either.

[StrangerCoug]

Why did you vote someone you claimed, and we all now know, was town?

He was obviously town. Dur.

So we should all be lynching townies so the Mafia can win, eh? Yeah.

CLEARLY

shows whose side you're on.

Benmage is our lynch today, ladies and gentlemen. I won't be upset about The Mini-Librarian being lynched, either.

Its called progression.

You aren't this dense.

I don't think I've gone a game where I didn't vote town reads of mine.

If I am dense in the first place, then you can help me find my way in a universe in which lynching town reads is ever a good idea. That was my question in the first place.

You also have the bussing accusation to defend. Lady Lambdadelta was not under any sort of serious pressure, and out of the blue you throw mud at her. Why?

And Meta /self Meta is awesome. Whoever educated you otherwise is wrong.

No, whoever educated you that meta is useful in determining alignment is wrong. That's why I don't like meta defenses.

When SC and LLD (maybe NC also I really don't remember) asked me point blank if I was the cop late day 2 (in which I did think LLD acted a little oddly), I decided that it was best if I lied since I only had one result and if pressured to claim later I might be able to convince everyone else why I did this.

My results

N1-LLD (not guilty)
N2-Kdowns (Now DLG) (Not Guilty)
N3-Code_X (No Result (Screw you Nero Cain))

I've decided not to re-invoke Lynch All Liars and accept this claim. The investigation targets make sense and DLG is alive.

Okay so, if I was to start pushing fakegod again would anybody help me?
Would rather it than benmage.
Benmage is acceptable if it comes to it (did he ever explain why he felt so strongly about lld?).

Right now my feelings about Benmage and FakeGod are the other way around, but as I've said, the lurkers need to step up to the plate this instant. I will not allow scum to lurk to victory after modding a game with apathetic town and a Corsican Mafia win.

[StrangerCoug]

If I am dense in the first place, then you can help me find my way in a universe in which lynching town reads is ever a good idea.

That was my question in the first place

..

Hence why I answered it first.

I'll spell it out for you: P.R.O.G.R.E.S.S.I.O.N.

Elaborate on how this "progression" works. I still don't see it.

I don't think there has ever been a game where I haven't voted someone I thought was going to flip town. BECAUSE NEWS FLASH I CAN BE WRONG.

So can the rest of us despite us thinking that the person we're voting is scum. This is no excuse.

If I was powerbusing it wouldb't be my GF with an innocent on, nor someone as strong as LLD.

WIFOM.

we're lynching

ohgodmylife or Hezlucky (most likely SK)
or ill shoot them. same thing

Reasons?

[StrangerCoug]

I'm not familiar enough with the OhGodMyLife case to push it, and even if I did I'm the most confident with Benmage at this stage of the game. Fuzzy logic, WIFOM, little real attempt at scumhunting overall... It's not clear to me what he thinks a lot of the game. All I've been able to take in is game theory, fluff, and a few opinions on players here and there. #2429 is clearly unwarranted.

[StrangerCoug]

SC/Hezz

what do you do when I don't flip scum?

What do I do when you don't flip scum? I rip out your throat for sabotaging us, that's what I do.

Who is?

Other than you, I'd practically bet my life savings that at least one, perhaps two, of the lurkers are scum. FakeGod stands out in this regard, but HezLucky makes a point that Psyche is not much better at providing content either.

[StrangerCoug]

It took me longer than usual to play catchup when I replaced into this game, but it was still a reasonable amount of time by most people's standards and I've been able to keep up.

[StrangerCoug]

SC/Hezz

what do you do when I don't flip scum?

What do I do when you don't flip scum? I rip out your throat for sabotaging us, that's what I do.

Because I'm the worst here?? Come off it take this fake anger shit elsewhere.

All you've done is tunnel on me off late for really shit reasons.

If you honestly think lynching town reads is remotely near the best thing to do, you need to go back to the newbie queue. I have repeatedly asked you why your thinking makes sense and I have been unable to get a satisfactory answer out of you. The more you lynch your claimed town reads, the more often you'll be lynched yourself. I should not have to teach you or anybody else this lesson. It's

COMMON SENSE.

Who is?

Other than you, I'd practically bet my life savings that at least one, perhaps two, of the lurkers are scum. FakeGod stands out in this regard, but HezLucky makes a point that Psyche is not much better at providing content either.

And your opinion of max is?

Maxous has a good chance of being town.

SC

who all even falls under this "lurker category"?

FakeGod (as I've said), Psyche, and maxwell.

Fuzzy logic? Wtf does that even mean?

OK, I admit my thinking was a bit off, but you wanted the definition. The point of what I was trying to say is that what you advocate makes absolutely no sense to me—it's like what you think and what I think are in complete conflict with each other.

WIFOM.... okay? So?

I'll take that as a concession.

little scumhunting. Fair enough. Worst contributor. Hell no. (Guess you can add deflection to the list now)

When did I say that you were the worst contributor?

Few opinions...so?

I'll take that as a concession.

maybe we should mc at some point

The operative words are "at some point". Today is not a good time.

[StrangerCoug]

-I'm very rarely lynched, and I don't think a game goes by I don't lynch town reads.
-Like I said I can be wrong.
-Being 1 useless vote out there does nothing. BEING ONE ISLAND OF A VOTE AND STAGNATING A GAME KILLS GAMES. SEEING LYNCHES THOUGH;

PROGRESSION

AND THEN ANALYZING THOSE LYNCHES IS HOW THE GAME IS PLAYED.
-It can help incriminate scum reads by proving them wrong.

THANK YOU.

You say this isn't my town meta.

I don't care about anyone's meta and I never will.

Maxwell, the one who replaced shotty. The one Im voting. Fuckina. The one who has 9 posts mr. LAL.

You should have clarified that; there are two people whose names can be shorted to Max. maxwell doesn't look good.

My point is several of the issues you have with me could equally be said of a multitude of individuals this game. It would be absurd to call us all scum. And you are doing a poor job of deciphering. I'm sure there is atleast 1 scum in the several lurkers. But you might mislynch 3 times, and lose the game first. Starting with me/followed by psyche. Two townies.

Nice job trying to scare me by saying that you and Psyche are town. It's not working.

SC

, do you agree that there is a common practice amongst scum to lurker hunt?

No.

[StrangerCoug]

My point is several of the issues you have with me could equally be said of a multitude of individuals this game. It would be absurd to call us all scum. And you are doing a poor job of deciphering. I'm sure there is atleast 1 scum in the several lurkers. But you might mislynch 3 times, and lose the game first. Starting with me/followed by psyche. Two townies.

Nice job trying to scare me by saying that you and Psyche are town. It's not working.

Blind blind blind. GOGO TUNNELVISION!!!!! HUZZAH

This is where I go I'm > U... and endgame proves this.

Still not working.

SC

, do you agree that there is a common practice amongst scum to lurker hunt?

No.

Maybe I was too ambiguous. Do you think the site, recognizes lurker hunting as a scum tactic?

No.

[StrangerCoug]

We have nine days, people. I still want Benmage to die, but I'll bite a FakeGod lynch.

[StrangerCoug]

stranger, vote ohgod.

OK, if OhGodMyLife flips scum power role, we have a good pool of scum to lynch from. Any other compelling reason?

[StrangerCoug]

I see how you want to optimize your chances of lynching scum, but I want your opinion of what OhGodMyLife has done that makes him scummier than Benmage or FakeGod.

[StrangerCoug]

FakeGod and maxwell are likely scum either way. I'd have to take a closer look at Maxous and HezLucky's interactions with OhGodMyLife to be able to answer the question about them, but I have a weaker town read on HezLucky than on Maxous.

UNVOTE: Benmage
VOTE: OhGodMyLife

[StrangerCoug]

Hezzlucky slipped when he automatically said the vig shot lady.
he must have been the Sk to know that.
he then backtracks after i pointed it out

Another so-called "slip" that isn't.

I see a dead maf and my first thought is assume vig. This isn't that hard.

That there were three deaths last night should have given you pause for thought. It did not, and neither did the fact that few suspected LadyLambdadelta of anything.

[StrangerCoug]

In arush so I can't address the previous questions.

FakeGod and maxwell are likely scum either way. I'd have to take a closer look at Maxous and HezLucky's interactions with OhGodMyLife to be able to answer the question about them, but I have a weaker town read on HezLucky than on Maxous.

UNVOTE: Benmage
VOTE: OhGodMyLife

So you have Hezz as fairly scummy aye? Why?

I'm sold on the SK slip and backtrack. I'm also reading the reaction to andrew94 wanting to kill him as an OMGUS attack.

If OhGodMyLife is not scum PR, then I will most likely revert to a Benmage attack.

[StrangerCoug]

Talk to andrew94; I'm sheeping him.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm still willing to give andrew94's theory that OGML is scum power a try.

[StrangerCoug]

Looking in ISO, I do think he's tried to make The Mini-Librarian look unnecessarily bad in #2411. Granted, it's something I've done myself earlier in the game while Lady Lambdadelta was still alive, but other things were more pressing than the gambit and when he was serious about the claim his actions made sense to me.

[StrangerCoug]

@DV: how does that makes sense?

It makes sense to me anyway

That doesn't answer his question.

And more of as no one wants to talk about OGML with me

I'm all ears about OhGodMyLife, actually.

[StrangerCoug]

My vote is not doing any good on hez right now. If anyone wants to get a real wagon going on him though, I'm your man.

Unvote, Vote: FakeGod

Could also go for redFF, but again, not without a real wagon.

You keep prod-dodging and promising reads. If you don't explain your reasoning for voting hez in your next post with so much as a single sentence, I'm voting you.

Responding to benmage in next post.

THIS LOOKS LIKE A BUS.

EXCELLENT.

Unvote, Vote: OGML

I'M WITH YOU IN ROCKLAND

I can make sense out of you voting OGML, but as your post is phrased, it implicates maxwell. How is he scummy?

[StrangerCoug]

The "bus" part. I see no problem with his post.

[StrangerCoug]

The "bus" part. I see no problem with his post.

I do.

It sets off my busdar.

Stop being vague. How does it set off your busdar? How does it show that maxwell has a reason to have his buddy OhGodMyLife lynched rather than maxwell simply being town deducing that OhGodMyLife has done something scummy?

[StrangerCoug]

Stop whiteknighting. You are trying to make yourself look useful when its clear a statement like "sets off my busdar" does not need any explanation.

Yes it does. I cannot arbitrarily say you are bussing maxwell, especially when I think maxwell is town. Why should I allow you to arbitrarily say maxwell is bussing OhGodMyLife?

[StrangerCoug]

StrangerCoug is still mafia. Trying to get himself intentionally distracted by asking me stupid questions.

Nobody of either alignment has any need to distract himself and my questions are not stupid. The only thing making you any better than Benmage is that you have not gone out on an ego-pumping trip and it has been difficult to get straight answers out of both of you.

You have 24 hours to post a case on maxwell that is more than just him bussing OhGodMyLife or you get my vote. For extra credit, tell me why you don't suspect me of doing the same thing when maxwell has come to his own conclusions about why OGML is scum while I'm sheeping andrew94.

[StrangerCoug]

Clock's ticking, HezLucky. Now's not the time to be a smart aleck.

[StrangerCoug]

Whichever of Benmage and HezLucky doesn't get the rope. (If neither, your choice.)

[StrangerCoug]

Oh, and happy scumday!

[StrangerCoug]

One of the lurkers.

[StrangerCoug]

StrangerCoug is still mafia. Trying to get himself intentionally distracted by asking me stupid questions.

Nobody of either alignment has any need to distract himself and my questions are not stupid. The only thing making you any better than Benmage is that you have not gone out on an ego-pumping trip and it has been difficult to get straight answers out of both of you.

You have 24 hours to post a case on maxwell that is more than just him bussing OhGodMyLife or you get my vote. For extra credit, tell me why you don't suspect me of doing the same thing when maxwell has come to his own conclusions about why OGML is scum while I'm sheeping andrew94.

Time is up.

VOTE: HezLucky

[StrangerCoug]

^Way to derail the OGML wagon, with a pointless vote on Hezz... congratulations, you've done nothing.

When I threaten to do stuff, I intend to carry that threat out. If I wanted people to screw around with me, I would sign up for a game of 52-card pickup. I made a perfectly reasonable request, and I even put my image on the line when I made the threat and asked why he didn't accuse me of bussing OGML when it's maxwell with the much better case. You're next unless I actually see you scumhunt. Adopting a holier-than-thou attitude is not scumhunting.

[StrangerCoug]

SC

you've been so all over the place.

List me your top 3 scum reads, scummiest first.

HezLucky, you, and a tossup between OhGodMyLife and FakeGod.

[StrangerCoug]

Oh, so we practice cannibalism now? [/spelling Nazi]

I am not here to be pushed around. If I cannot garner enough support for either HezLucky or Benmage right now, then I will vote one of them, but I want the fact that HezLucky cannot post a simple case on maxwell brought to everyone's attention at this moment. The reason I'm more reluctant to vote OhGodMyLife right now is because 1.) my vote on him was to test a theory by a player who since replaced out and of whom some people now suspect of being a serial killer and 2.) I don't buy OhGodMyLife and maxwell as both scum the way HezLucky's been going after him.

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP: going after them

[StrangerCoug]

StrangerCoug, you're still pointedly ignoring me pointing out that your read on me has done a 180 without explanation.

I currently see you being scum as unlikely given HezLucky's refusal to put up a case on you that is more than just you bussing OhGodMyLife, to which I'm getting that your counterattack against DeasVail in post #2766 is related. (Speaking thereof, what do you think of HezLucky)?

StrangerCoug has morphed into obvious scum who is pretending to be a noob / distracted. But he is not.

As I said, nobody of either alignment has a need to be distracted. Ever. And trying to get answers to perfectly legitimate questions does not make me a noob. Anybody who finds me a nuisance has three options:

1. Work something out with me so that I am no longer a nuisance. (Hint: It's common sense to be reasonable.)
   
2. Replace out and find a game I'm not playing.
   
3. Kill me.

I

REALLY

prefer the first option.

[StrangerCoug]

...Yeah. Since neither of us are getting anywhere with the other at this point, let's at least do something we both agree is a good idea—dispose of the lurkers.

VOTE: FakeGod

[StrangerCoug]

@Anybody: Do you think it is possible a Serial Killer in this game could be investigative immune along with a godfather that was?
Particulary @ Hez, benmage, and SC who I think(?) have been in numerous games.

Yes. For two investigation-immune roles to make sense requires a very strong town, but we have plenty of evidence of that here.

I still think lynching HezLucky is the correct answer for refusing to justify how maxwell was bussing OhGodMyLife. Yes, OGML flipped scum. That was what I thought at the time.

VOTE: HezLucky

[StrangerCoug]

The reason I'm more reluctant to vote OhGodMyLife right now is because 1.) my vote on him was to test a theory by a player who since replaced out and of whom some people now suspect of being a serial killer and 2.) I don't buy OhGodMyLife and maxwell as both scum the way HezLucky's been going after him.

That's the last thing you said regarding OhGodMyLife on Day 4.

I still think lynching HezLucky is the correct answer for refusing to justify how maxwell was bussing OhGodMyLife. Yes, OGML flipped scum. That was what I thought at the time.

I'm confused by what looks like pretty unconvincing revisionist history on your part. Can you explain?

It was a relatively weak scum read, but a scum read nonetheless.

So

SC

is anyone more blatantly town than I, now?

Yes. Practically the whole game. Do you see the rest of us pumping our egos?

[StrangerCoug]

So

SC

is anyone more blatantly town than I, now?

Yes. Practically the whole game. Do you see the rest of us pumping our egos?

Wait wait wait... YOU STILL fine me scummy??

Let me see your top 2 scum.

When you asked the question, it hadn't changed from the end of yesterday: HezLucky, then you. DLG's pushing really hard for a Psyche lynch in #2864, and I'm buying.

UNVOTE: HezLucky
VOTE: Psyche

Psyche.... I am the only reason you are alive.... last sentence did you mean someone else?

Do you think it's a really good idea for you to say that to DLG's biggest read? I know he's not seriously considering you, but the implications will not look good if Psyche flips scum.

Which leaves Psyche, Maxwell, Hez and SC.

This is a good list. Minus me.

I still think lynching HezLucky is the correct answer for refusing to justify how maxwell was bussing OhGodMyLife. Yes, OGML flipped scum. That was what I thought at the time.

LOL and you wonder why you're on the list.

If you're going to comment about the list, why don't you provide some useful input? maxous is entitled to his opinion, and if I am not knowledgeable about why I am on the list, I will ask.

The toher vote I am interested in right now is maxwell's obvbus from yesterday.

once psyche and maxwell flip scum (minimum 1 out of 2) we can then proceed to get strangercoug for being useless

Explain how I am any more useless than you.

[StrangerCoug]

Ah here's the post that makes me chuckle at the notion I could be scum... I suggest lynching one scum, and vigging the other.... Yep totally partners... What did SC want, oh yeah 2 town. Me and Hezz.

So who should I target then?

How about Fakegod or OGML...whichever doesn't eat rope. SO we can analyze both competing wagons.

Show where you posted cases on FakeGod and OhGodMyLife. Bussing two scum is perfectly conceivable.

Vote Strangercoug

-I'm tired of his stubbornness.

Stubbornness is not a scumtell.

-His shitty reads

Shitty reads are not themselves scumtells.

-His illogical statements

Show how my statements are illogical.

-His counterproductive mentality.

Show how my mentality is counterproductive.

[StrangerCoug]

So I show you it... But I could still be scum bussing.. so whats the point?

The point is that it's WIFOM. So you nailed two scum. That does not itself make you town.

Way to give yourself options.

So open-mindedness is now a scum tell? You're hilarious.

-Stubborness on common practices. I.E. SCUM DO TARGET LURKERS.

Where did I say they didn't?

--You DERAILED THE SCUM PR TO ATTACK HEZZLUCKY.

The black mark I get from trying to shift the wagon off someone who has since flipped scum to someone whose alignment is still unknown is something with which I have to live. You have to take into account that it could be mitigated if HezLucky flips scum (which I think he will), but any way you slice the bird, there are still worse crimes.

[StrangerCoug]

Explain.

[StrangerCoug]

OK, I can see how that works from a town point of view.

[StrangerCoug]

You think people with scumbuddies are still in this game? That seems unlikely.

Four Mafia goons in a 24-player game would make up a sixth of the game. I'm open to the possibility that there's one Mafia and one SK left but I'm willing to bet on a five-player Mafia team and an SK.

[StrangerCoug]

Benmage, I'd respond to every single sentence about me, but nobody wants a wall, so I will summarize the main points here. Anything you want explained in further detail, please speak up.

#2909: Neither you nor HezLucky is in the slightest confirmed town. From now on, I will ignore any post of yours where you defend HezLucky, and I will also ignore any post of yours in which you whine and complain that you are not my #1 town read.

#2911: Why do I think I am still alive? Few other players are pushing that I am the scummiest player. I have caught on, however, that other people think I am scum (or at least an option for it).

As for the other part, I refuse to give you details about what I think is the setup. My 5:1:18 theory is based on the fact that mods shoot for 25%-33% of the game being scum, the Mafia has no specific name, and there were three deaths on nights 3 and 4. That is all the town needs to know of my opinion.

#2912/2913 (which is the same thing): The same statement cannot be both a lie and an opinion. You asked if I agreed that scum target lurkers. I had forgotten that I had disagreed, but the point is that you were asking for an opinion.

Attacking the lurkers is because I felt they were being detrimental to the game and I thought scum was among them. That was justified.

Nothing else in those posts is a scumtell.

#2914: See response to #2911 for the defense to the first point. As to the second, I play hardball. I believe in fighting to the death.

[StrangerCoug]

why i am still a scum suspect of yours?

You are more focused on trying to prove that you are better than everyone else than doing proper scumhunting, number one. Number two, I have no reason to trust you when you are constantly defending my scumread.

As far as I can recall your suspicions are outdated.

Show me which of my suspicions are outdated and what posts outdate them.

The rest of your post is a waste of my time.

[StrangerCoug]

You are more focused on trying to prove that you are better than everyone else than doing proper scumhunting, number one.

Bullshit. I make a few comments, and you cling to this little piece as if it was the totality of my work.

Did I say you were

EXCLUSIVELY

focused on trying to prove you are better than everyone else while doing

ZERO

scumhunting?

Number two, I have no reason to trust you when you are constantly defending my scumread.

So we differ on reads....

And yes I will defend pysche from being mislynched at this pinnacle point in the game.

The scumread of mine that I'm worried about you defending is HezLucky. Yes, I'm voting Psyche, but I'm second-guessing myself at this point.

The only information you've really complained about me, was not answering REALLY fucking obvious questions.. Which as quoted got answered.

I stopped pushing that when it was answered.

And you accused me early on of lurking. Which clearly is no longer the case.

Lurking in the sense that I've been using this game, that is true. I still get this boasting and noise-making, though.

Now whose suspicions are outdated?

Can't explain why scum didn't NK you? (Guess saying it would be against the scum teams WC would be bad aye)

I don't care about why scum didn't kill me, hence why I dismissed your bringing it up as a waste of my time.

[StrangerCoug]

You know what?

Yes, I'm voting Psyche, but I'm second-guessing myself at this point.

I've decided that my vote does not belong on Psyche.

UNVOTE: Psyche
VOTE: Benmage

I am done with what is effectively OMGUS and his crappy case on me. At least maxwell has a three-digit IQ and is voting me for reasons that I can get to make sense (I believe he is referring to my 180 on him, and I still hold that it makes no sense for both HezLucky and maxwell to be scum). He's not my number one town read either as I have questions as to how, exactly, he plans on being cop-cleared, but he's still not a lynch I want to pursue.

[StrangerCoug]

I am in agreement with you that Benmage is stretching in a lot of his case on me (he claimed that my suspicions are outdated when I had already taken into account what he specified were outdated in my attack on him), and he apparently thinks not having him as my top town read is scummy, which is coming off as a "glorified" OMGUS attack. I still have issues with the level of his scumhunting in general, but anyone who thinks he hasn't been posting much lately is extremely inattentive.

[StrangerCoug]

The reason I'm more reluctant to vote OhGodMyLife right now is because 1.) my vote on him was to test a theory by a player who since replaced out and of whom some people now suspect of being a serial killer and 2.) I don't buy OhGodMyLife and maxwell as both scum the way HezLucky's been going after him.

That's the last thing you said regarding OhGodMyLife on Day 4.

I still think lynching HezLucky is the correct answer for refusing to justify how maxwell was bussing OhGodMyLife. Yes, OGML flipped scum. That was what I thought at the time.

I'm confused by what looks like pretty unconvincing revisionist history on your part. Can you explain?

It was a relatively weak scum read, but a scum read nonetheless.

Alright, I'd like further clarification on this, StrangerCoug.

See, I expected an answer to my question more along the lines of, "I was just saying what I thought prior to the flip." Because, you

were

saying that prior to the flip. Instead, this idea that you really did have a mild scum read on OhGodMyLife seems out of place.

Explain how it is out of place.

I am done with what is effectively OMGUS and his crappy case on me. At least maxwell has a three-digit IQ and is voting me for reasons that I can get to make sense (I believe he is referring to my 180 on him, and I still hold that it makes no sense for both HezLucky and maxwell to be scum).

That's a ridiculous claim. OMGUS? That's just patently untrue.

Then give your opinion about why Benmage is complaining that he is not my top town read.

So, if both HezLucky and maxwell are not scum (I agree with this, by the way), could it be that HezLucky just had really good "busdar"?

Your wording's off, but I understand what you mean, and I am currently closed to the possibility that HezLucky had a good "busdar" as he refused to back himself up. I would be much more willing to accept it with maxwell flipped scum.

If not, then why aren't you pushing for a HezLucky lynch based on the fact that he would have had to have known OhGodMyLife was going to flip scum?

Because I cannot get any support for it.

As for the other part, I refuse to give you details about what I think is the setup. My 5:1:18 theory is based on the fact that mods shoot for 25%-33% of the game being scum, the Mafia has no specific name, and there were three deaths on nights 3 and 4. That is all the town needs to know of my opinion.

So, 18:5:1 is your theory. That would put us at 7:2:1, right now.

Why were you willing to flat sheep me on Psyche

When you asked the question, it hadn't changed from the end of yesterday: HezLucky, then you. DLG's pushing really hard for a Psyche lynch in #2864, and I'm buying.

when he was at best your third highest scum read?

Like you, I reject the idea that the Seacore lynch was made up of ten town and one scum.

I mean, under your theory of distribution, we only have one mislynch to give (worst case), right?

Let me do this in my head... 7:2:1, town gets lynched, two more townies die (since the vig is dead), putting us at 4:2:1... Sounds about right.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Please put another opening quote tag before the quote tag before "As for the other part..."

[StrangerCoug]

#2909: Neither you nor HezLucky is in the slightest confirmed town. From now on, I will ignore any post of yours where you defend HezLucky, and I will also ignore any post of yours in which you whine and complain that you are not my #1 town read.

This sounds like bitter scum. OH NOES YOU GUYS AREN'T CONFIRMED TOWN STOP THAT.

You two aren't confirmed

ANYTHING

, admittedly, but all this defending you will look bad for him if and when you flip scum.

[StrangerCoug]

UNVOTE: Benmage
VOTE: StrangerCoug

[StrangerCoug]

maxwell, why are you so ashamed of your own play when you got me my first scum win in about two years?

Also, interesting piece of trivia: I won the other game where I self-hammered as scum, too. (On the other hand, I've lost every other game where I've been lynched while self-voting.)

By self-hammering, I wanted to create as much confusion as possible, and I honestly don't think that worked too well. My remaining scumbuddies were reluctant to keep pushing Benmage after that and the FBI claim was center stage.

[StrangerCoug]

Don't you feel bad, GreyICE. I carried the torch for you (far enough, anyway).

[StrangerCoug]

The end!