NY 151: Playground Mafia (Game Over-Mafia Win!)

[Maxous]

confirming

[Maxous]

So... wait.

QUOTE #1:
PREMISE #1: drmyshotgun is a fool
PREMISE #2: It's better to remain silent and thought to be a fool than open your mouth and prove it.
CONCLUSION: drmyshotgun should remain silent.

QUOTE #2:
PREMISE #1: It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
PREMISE #2: drmyshotgun is a fool.
???
CONCLUSION: Lambda isn't a fool.

How do you get from Premise #2 to conclusion?

I think i'm going to like this guy.

[Maxous]

how is ninja already buddying lambda before the game starts.

In what way exactly?
This confused me.

b/c Vi's are hard to read....

why are you taking this so personally?

I agree this question is a bit odd.
Nero, what were you trying to gain with this question?

[Maxous]

KK: Nero is currently null-leaning-scum.

Going through this..
You think Nero might be scum (as you are leaning scum). Presumably because of what he is posting early game.
So you decide to tell Nero to

stop

what he is posting.
Because you otherwise...might get a better read on your scum suspect?
If you think he might be scum why would you tell him to stop his line of posting exactly, rather than let him continue?

[Maxous]

It was a joke. He was defending her statements for her.

*Ahem

I knew this...moving along

Red, CCV, Maxous, shotgun- what is your current read on Nero?

Meh

Mastin strike me as Town.

Why?
And I echo KK about scooby.

I mean, you either HONESTLY BELIEVE that someone would lynch Mastin based off playstyle. (In which case you're incredibly stupid).

To be fair, there are players that would do that.

[Maxous]

@Maxous: To be fair, do you think I'm one of them?

In this game, no.
In general, maybe
I honestly don't know.

[Maxous]

Umm...just asking. Is it safe to assume that these pre-game chatter is not very important? Or should I read them all anyways.

every last word.
and you will report to me your findings of each post

[Maxous]

Maybe Rack, I want him to explain that Nero stance and comment.

Pine's defence of scooby is just weird. And unneccessary.
Why would you say it is 'unreasonable' to hold something against scooby when you agree that he is deserving of pressure for the same comment. Why even bother defending him at all if you think he deserves pressure?
And I want to know where the Mastin town read came from.

[Maxous]

All Macros has done has been a weak vote on benmage.

Also: "(benmage)suddenly becomes an active player" suggests macros is'nt paying attention to the thread.
#305 was benmage's 24'th post, it was'nt exactly something that was easily missable.

While I would'nt pull the trigger just yet, i'm not liking this slot.

___________
___________

Nero is also coasting in a really scummy way.

Nero- what are your current reads?

thar be scum in NN, KK, LLD, Psyche, jason,mage

Why has he explained nothing about this? Or pushed it all?
All i seen was "i'm pretty sure one of LLD or KK is scum"

I did'nt like this post either,

Ok then.

Mastin called you scum and I called you a vi. Instead of responding

you instead join a bandwagon with a vote that attempts to look like an RVS. Why would you do this as town?

Why should shotgun respond to either of these? Particulary you calling him a vi?

And here is my biggest issue,

though I have to agree that fire is very probable scum. Psyche is his #1 but he joins the rack wagon?

This is your FS scum read presumably.
First, how is it scummy if somebody joins the more viable wagon of a scumread rather than the preferred scumread?
If I understand correctly you prefer a drmyshotgun lynch but you are voting Firestarter right now yes?
So you are doing exactly what you are calling FS scum for doing.
secondly,

And note (I should have put this in my original post), my initial scum list is in no particular order.
If one was to check the player list on the very first page, my reads are in that order.

Explains the entire issue Nero had with Firestarter.
Nero did'nt respond to or adress this at all.
And yet Nero is voting FS. For no other explained reason.

Vote: Nero Cain

I'll get to more a bit later.

[Maxous]

Sorry if this looks a bit cluttered!

Maybe Rack, I want him to explain that Nero stance and comment.

Pine's defence of scooby is just weird. And unneccessary.
Why would you say it is 'unreasonable' to hold something against scooby when you agree that he is deserving of pressure for the same comment. Why even bother defending him at all if you think he deserves pressure?
And I want to know where the Mastin town read came from.

Having people screaming for a person's death when they haven't actually entered the game yet is a big pet peeve of mine. It pisses me off. If they've engaged with the game, and are withholding significant content (like Rack) then I condone it. All Scooby had done to that point was confirm, and people were ready to lynch him. What the fuck?

Mastin Townread is from experience and gut.

I'll be frank, i'm sceptical of all this.

I still find it hard to beleive you would of used the wording "unreasonable to hold against" if you did beleive he deserved pressure.
I think you were trying to white knight scooby but then realised how silly this argument was when KK called you on it. And then you tried to cover it with 'well yeah, I agree he deserves pressure'.
And why do you have no read on Scooby if you beleive he deserves pressure?
People who deserve pressure are light scum reads yeah? Are at least people who are acting scummy.

Most of what KK has written so far I agree with, except maybe the stance on scooby.
I agree with Pine here, that death shouldn't be in the pipeline for someone who only posted
once, and that was to confirm.
I came in and did the same thing, confirmed. Where was the pressure on me?

You confirmed post #26. Scooby was post #93.
There is a very obvious difference.
And no, mini librarion was not pulling double standards as you seem to be suggesting.

Why does psyche's vote on rack look like a bus to you?

Ohgod. Oh, god. Firestarter. really. is. scum. That post. just.

painfully

so. IioA, bad reads, scummy tone...

I need to go back to my QT to type out the details in more...coherence.

I was actually interested in this...

@Jason: Is the tl;dr of your case on psyche 'he avoided a couple of questions before he eventually answered them'.
Frankly, #308 is very unclear to me.
Are you calling ninja scummy or what? Are you calling benmage scum?
Which of Mastin's thoughts interested you?

Nothing drmyshottyizsik posts makes sense to me.

@Psyche: I don't know what "his posts are meh" means.

YO MAXOUS COMMENT ON CCV

You over-reacted.

I'm willing to give rack a bit more time to explain themselves but..stop dragging it out already.

[Maxous]

All you or anyone had to do is ask me if they wanted me to explain my reads.

If you think they are scum(or suspect) why would'nt you bring up the reads and explain them unprompted? Any of them.
Ninja had to ask you directly for the reads in the first place because you did'nt give any.
How would you expect to get them lynched? Particulary since you think the leading wagon is town.

And please explain in clear terms why you are voting firestarter.

More town than null on ccv.
to elaborate on ccv-red,
I think CCV using the phrase 'wrote the book on rack scum' was him attempting to be humorous with his wording again and red over-reacted to it with his accusation.

[Maxous]

Head A of rack has been proven to respond to voting pressure. We can revisit Pine later.

Or we can visit Pine now.
Are you under the impression rack won't answer anything unless there is a bandwagon on him?

Speaking of which,
@Pine: I actually do want to know why you think scooby deserves pressure of you have no read of him.

antihero looks a lot better than ccv.

In what way?
And you should know better than this. If rack is scum it would make a lot of sense for partners to vote him early considering what happened in pre-game.

That being said yeah, FS' statement that psyche vote specifically looks like a bus is what? And the explanation for it has'nt been satisfactory.

[Maxous]

whoops,
*pressure when you have

[Maxous]

Out of all the things you could say, why so something useless that you know to be hypocritical instead of soemthing else?

[Maxous]

Out of all the things you could say, why so something useless that you know to be hypocritical instead of soemthing else?

sorry my phone is awkward for this. deas, he is probably scum. he knows he is in trouble, mastin highlighted it iirc, and his response is to basically troll.
it is sum keeping his mouth shut as to not harm the rest of His team.
even if he does'nt want to give strong reads without consulting his partner he would at least explain what he wrote previously which many have asked for

vote:rack[\b]

p-edit: lol no that was'nt directed at you lld, I just messed the post somehow. I was responding to deas.

I see pine and macros posted but I need to wait until I get home.

[Maxous]

An ISO of rack shows he still needs to be lynched.

Starting to catch up now, thankfully it's not as long as I thought it would be.

[Maxous]

^These are scumposts. Check out his ISO. Coasting on some early contribution, now cheerleading leading wagons.

Unvote
Vote: Macros

Not liking this post..again.
Stating Macros was "cheerleading leading wagons" is stretchy at best.
He was'nt.

Maxous also bothers me for his sudden jump on the rack wagon, especially given his previous comments on that wagon.

(what comments?)
btw lurking and not contributing when given a chance

are

scum traits

Looking at Jason's long post here... he says pratically nothing, and his reasoning for his scum reads were really weak at best. Well, from what I can understand of them anyway.
I see he replaced out later because he had trouble catching up. Could explain the laziness of his posting I suppose.
Still, it does'nt explain the poor reasoning for his scum reads. Particulary the benmage one.
I wish I could get him to elaborate on some reads but w/e. Looking through his ISO does'nt impress me much either.

Yes, I agree, but people should take a look at Macros' answers to my questions- Scum trying to give reasonable, logical answers, which are actually not what town would think.

I don't see it.
Can you elaborate on this?

@vijay2vasandani - The fact that you're trying to start a counter-wagon on Pine

right now

can only be interpreted as an attempt to get focus off rack so that he can coast without punishment.

If I wasn't pressuring rack for reads, then I'd be with you on Pine. All I'm asking is that you stay your hand for now.

This attack is lame.
Viijay is starting a wagon on his scum suspect..what do you expect him to do instead?
And if you are not calling vijay scum, why bother accusing him of having an ulterior motive to starting the wagon?

Then comes a lot of comic relief posting.

tell me o wise one, why was it important to vote for shotty when there was a healthy bandwagon on Rack?

You called FS scum for doing the exact opposite.
Why are you even asking this question?

I also saw the Firestarter-thinking-Psyche-was-bussing-rack post, and was able to put two-and-two together even before Firestarter
explained himself and the fact that you weren't stupifies me.

Meh, I did'nt get why it specifically looks like a bus. I still don't really get it.
Unless FS is just using confirmation bias of rack-scum to call psyche a busser.

Are you a good player?

Am I good? Not bad enough to get lynched early often, I don't exactly terrorise scumteams with brillaint deduction skills though.
I'm okay I would figure.. idk analysing how skilled you are is a bit awkward =P

Ehh, nothing I want to comment on for the rest of it.

The suspicion on Junpei is probably wrong.
Particulary with the way he attacked red FF, even if I don't agree with the logic used.
Dunno why Junpei-scum would even bother do what he did with ML either. Well, unless he was playing to a meta maybe.

Anyway I don't get why a few people are waiting on Rack for more posts before making a judgement on him.
The guy is intentionally not providing any content in order to avoid creating a bigger mess. Rack-town would of done

something

by now, particulary when you look at his first post of the game.

vote: rack

I'll go through more on why I think Nero Jason and Pine(kinda) are scum when i'm less tired.
Wanna go through KK and Ninja again also.

[Maxous]

So yeah, turns out I don't have as much time today as I thought I would.
I'll have to post that stuff Sunday night/monday along with whatever catching up.

[Maxous]

I love how my scumreads are getting called town for no good reason. It's pretty awesome.

Is my Junpei comment being referred to in here?

He attacked red on a snap decision based on what he seen with a weak scumtell and not much of a case. That's a lot more town than scum. (scum are usually more like 'oh i'll wait until I fully catch-up and post a comprehensive reads list'. It's a lot safer that way)

Its not like scum bunch up and do A but not B or B but not A. No scumtell is 100%.

right...but if i have understood correctly you said joining the wagon on somebody that is'nt your top suspect is scummy. (in that situation)
And then you were questioning somebody on why he was voting thier top suspect and not joining the wagon of a lesser suspect. (in a similar situation)

I don't get why you would think both of these behaviours are suspicious.

Someone please explain to me how drmyshotgun's claim gave him instant towncred.

Okay.
Universal town back-up.
Done.

It seems like people can get away with coasting on the Rack wagon because saying "herpderp he not posting, he sucks" is enough scumhunting.

Can you elaborate on who you specifically think is coasting?
(I think you're saying LLD is one but not sure)

Also we should'nt drag this lynch much longer despite 2 weeks until deadline, I would be willing to talk theory as to why.

I will have to re-read that psyce-KK debate later because *whoosh*
I agree psyche's #828 is weird. The rack case is simple enough and has been repeated a lot...even in the parts of the game where psyche was caught up.

(got some acces )

[Maxous]

Why does one need Mod's Clarification for anything?

because I hit rack with my day role earlier.
when successful it forces a post restriction on the player that forbids them from posting anything that can be interpreted as relevant content.
he has to make sure he does'nt cross the line.

[Maxous]

-Were meant to look kinda town in nature,

What?

Nero's post was'nt a 'scumslip', though I really don't get the 3 people pulling a distraction to the game thing...(to what end exactly? Why?)

Unfortunately I can't re-check rolling in the deep - as it is lost in the crash - but if I remember correctly, Pine is quite likely scum for this post

There was a player in that game, sky who lurked like hell and then claimed VT when wagoned to L-1.
Pine made the arguement(again, iirc) that it was unlikely that a player would be so lurky and useless and then claim vt so he is likely town (or something to that affect). Turned out he was correct.
Yeah, he was a sk in that game but he was still genuinely hunting scum.

The same arguement is pointed out to him this game and he dismisses it with 'oh wifom, let's lynch scooby next'

Why

scooby is scum for that post was'nt pointed out either

Plus that fakeclaim accusation was silly, a fakeclaim of what exactly?
Why would scum claim vt and then say 'oh I want to check with the mod about my role'
Why would someone think a scum player would do that?
He did'nt think that through at all ...which is also scummy, particulary since he was basically calling for a hammer on rack.

vote:Pine

[Maxous]

Rack claimed way before he was at L-1, Maxous's comparison to Sky in NY142 doesn't hold water. Completely different situations, and completely different people. NS is exactly the kind of person I'd expect to claim VT as scum, just because scum don't usually do it.

He claimed when he was psuedo at L-1.
If you think NS would do that as scum for meta reasons, fine. (though why you said 'wifom' and not 'NS would totally do this as scum' is beyond me)

Your scooby vote makes no sense to me at all.
And I think you are being intentionally oblivious to the 'mod clarification on VT issue'. It was explained he was clarifing head reveal and why(as it was vague in the ruleset)

[Maxous]

Yeah, Pine is scum. For sure.

Shotgun and Psynche had good relevant points and his suspicion on scooby just screams fake.

Code X is scummy too, posting a lot but not saying a lot. Reading through his walls, it is a lot of commentary...not much meat to it.
Even his player by player post said surprisingly little.
I'm trying to work out the tl;dr of his case on red but it seems to only consist of 'well, he ignored questions'

It's quite similar to why I think Jason was scum, though not to the same extent. (still waiting on FG to do something btw)

[Maxous]

Cause even for scum Nero's posting is bizarre.

Pine is a better option, he is just outright scummy.

[Maxous]

I think he's bad more so for the way he played regards the Rack lynch. As I say he always seemed to be happy to push and prod the lynch along, despite vehemently claiming Rack was town at several opportunities.

Meh, does'nt look like it to me.

I did notice how easily he jumped off antihero after making a big song and dance about CCV though.

Stating that someone is town or scum via unflipped player attack is ridiculous.

itt psyche is scum and knows Jun is town.

Checking the time stamps the second quote was posted 47 mins after the first one.
That was funny.

You claim you are unfamiliar with the site meta of old players and then you go on to hold it against Macros.

What? Where does he claim that?

I don't wanna wagon Mastin. Junpei seems town.
Nero...I would live with it.

Macros and FG would be the preferable alt wagons.

I would like to say more but recently it's been the same few people talking about the same stuff. Or at least it really seems that way to me.

[Maxous]

Well, I'm still here.

From what I can gather the Mastin case is 'he promised to post reads from the qt and did'nt so he is'nt scumhunting' and 'he is flooding the thread which is scummy for meta reasons'.
Neither of which convince me, town promise to do full re-reads and never do also.

I don't get why Code X thinks Mastin is scum..again.

The case on red is meh.

Not much more for me to say tbh, I still beleive Pine is the best option for today.

[Maxous]

Can somebody give me a tl;dr of red-scum?

So far I have got:
- he is dodging questions (in an obvious manner)
- Being annoying and saying people should'nt question his lordship.
- Having a town (or non-scum read) on rack which KK does'nt agree to the logic too.

Don't see why this is scum.

@SC: Why are you writing comments about CCV?

[Maxous]

I'll get caught up on this tomorrow.

Based on the votes, not much changed since i left anyway.

[Maxous]

I'd usually say Pine being fed up is a towntell, but I've seen scum act that way before, so am avoiding thinking it town. I think he's an alright wagon. RedFF not so much, but don't care about my opinion on him. I really don't mind the idea of Mastin as scum because of his desire to change his playstyle, while still (seemingly) sticking to the same way of playing.

Can I get a quick list of who you think the scum is? Your strongest suspects.
It's not entirely clear since.. you're saying many lynches are

okay

Don't really need them explained if you don't want, just names.

Mastin, stop being such a drama queen; It's suspicious that you are playing a massive noob card while simultaneously backing away from all of your previous reads (and thus, content).

I think that Mastin "wiping the slate clean" is suspicious because it releases him from all previous commitments he has made. We catch scum overtime in isolation; and he is basically cutting everything up to this point off with a few exceptions and wanting to start over.

And hypothetically why do you think Mastin-scum would of felt the need to cut himself off from previous ties? Why bother?

The Nero v StrangerCoug discussion is a lot of talking without saying much.

Yeah, I don't get what thier points are either.

#1164 and #1170: I could have sworn mastin2 was in Mafia 91, which had two teams of four, under his original account. I'd have to double-check that game, though, and it was a 30-player game instead of a 24-player game anyway.

even if he was, why is this scummy?
Admitally I have'nt went through all your links but this was the main point about why mastin is scum that I could find.

[Maxous]

Junpei never said he thought Benmage was faking.

Yeah, but he did'nt say it was because Benmage forgot either. You just assumed it.
Which was your case.

Also:

WTF? Your case is to point out how amazingly hyper-aware I am of the vote count and who the major wagons are on while quoting me asking for the mod to post a votecount.

So you are saying you were'nt aware that Mastin and Junpei were the two highest wagons? Or at least 2 of the 3 highest?

And yeah, Junpei's suspicion of KK amounts to little more than gut feeling -considering no examples of KK being ungenuine about Mastin - and saying KK is defending Mastin is quite a big stretch.

You know we could just all vote shotty...

We could all vote the mod too, but that doesn't mean we are going to.

Post reason(s) red is scum...

1. Psyche----Quite beginner town, feeling overwhelmed. (Couldddddd be lost scum, but thinking the latter)

Do you mean the former?

SSC, whats your opinion on rack?

Dead. Your name can be added to the "not gonna cry if this person gets lynched" list for not reading.

There a reason you keep avoiding everything that anyone asks/requests of you?

Are you saying he should give an opinion on a flipped town?
The hell is that avoiding?

Again, these Nero-SC debates are going way over my head.

[Maxous]

Is drmyshottyizsik usually this useless?

Is Code_X usually this useless?

Why is he being useless? Because he suspects you?
And yeah, colour me sceptical that you wanted backed-up facts about why shotty is being useless, why did you even ask for them?

Nero's case on TML is quite good, actually.
TML's response is poor also... I would support the wagon if it becomes viable.
Considerably better than Mastin/Junpei lynch.

So I wouldn't mind offing lurkers to try and keep scum active and not lurking.

Pine is a good candidate for this. So is FG.

That my sense of humor is shot is conceded, but joking around claiming you are a certain role in a Mafia game is like joking around claiming you have a bomb at an airport. You cannot do either without serious repercussions. I stand by my vote, no matter how unpopular.

So do you actually think he is scum or what?

kdowns replaced Macros right? Maybe we should see if Mastin's theory is correct.

Unvote
Vote: KDowns

Can you explain how any of this makes sense? Why are you following your scum read's theory again?

[Maxous]

Just b/c those posts are in succession doesn't mean they are related. I had asked some questions of SC and Ben had asked SC for some links. Instead of answering my questions or providing Ben with the links. He attacks Ben.

This makes no sense as he already gave an opinion on Rack so your point is lost on me.

Would of been more clear if you quoted ben asking for the links but I digress.

And no, I don't wanna lynch kdowns atm.

I understand Pine is unmotovated and unable to fully keep up with the game etc. but apathy does'nt explain his bad thoughtless 'fakeclaim' accusations towards Rack and shotgun and his scooby scumread.
It's not town, no matter how lazy you're being.

I should prob go more into detail the next day.
But you don't think "he is scum claiming VT and asking for a mod clarification." without realising the idea of scum doing that is weird.
And I agree with Shotgun of questioning why Pine just did'nt ask the mod does he consider mason a PR first instead of advocating his lynch.

In short, he is looking for things to pick at and call scummy instead of thinking his suspicions through..that's the general point.

P-edit:
KK, I don't get it. Junpei did'nt previously call benmage scum

[Maxous]

nd hypothetically why do you think Mastin-scum would of felt the need to cut himself off from previous ties? Why bother?

It's a form of waffling and not having to worry about work he hasn't done. Basically it's the old "I haven't done any scumhunting, let me just start from the top and tell them that I am doing a second read when it's really my first".

He did'nt read the thread previously even though he wrote that 6 part wall of doom with his reads on the whole playerbase?

P-edit: Why was my vote crap exactly, nero?

[Maxous]

Was Nero's last post a reply to me?
If so, it makes no sense.

[Maxous]

22. Maxous Gimli

I'm actually rather tall.

Deas, why did you vote kdowns anyway?

[Maxous]

Based on the current wagons and the one I feel is more town driven.

Unvote
Vote: Junpei

Okay..but why did you vote kdowns in the first place?

[Maxous]

Really? I thought it was an opportunistic jump.

By me?

No. By Seacore.

Actually, regardless of alignment it is the only sensible move to make. (unless another rapid bandwagon appears)

@ Deas, Code X: Did either of you expect to get kdowns lynched today when you voted him? Or bandwagoned?

[Maxous]

Eh, Junpei should'nt claim atm.

I find it interesting how the two of you just voted kdowns without pushing for his lynch at all (i.e. why he is the best choice), particulary when the wagons on pine and junpei were well established (so any alternative wagon was'nt gonna just pop up without somebody driving a force behind it), hence my asking.

[Maxous]

DV, what experience do you have playing with Seacore?

None, as far as I'm aware.

What do you think of the slot?

Why did you vote a replacement before they could contribute to the game?

Is Seacore easy to read as scum or something?

[Maxous]

Hmm, do you

really

not know KK was on your wagon already?

I would'nt expect you to miss that.

[Maxous]

PEDIT: And 3rd wagon contender number 1 steps up to the plate.

I assume this is about shotgun..why do you think he is scum?

[Maxous]

Even as town yes Seacore should of voted Junpei, he would'nt know for sure that Junpei is town while he knows he is.
I found it more suspect that he did'nt stick with his Junpei vote(as in asking for cases) and talked about forming a third wagon(personally that is the approach I feel scum is more likely to take rather than,"i'm voting Junpei because it is of no benefit that I just let myself be lynched" - which would be correct)

But most of all Seacore wanted to start a wagon on shotgun because he thought shotgun proposed a no-lynch.
That's scummy, that's very similar to why we're wagoning Pine in the first place.

Why would scum just propose a no-lynch like that? What is the scum benefit to announcing that?
It would bring negative attention to them from a situation where it is completely unneccessary.

[Maxous]

Any good VT knows that they deserve to die instead of a town PR.

Disagree... but it's late and i'm tired so i'm not discussing game theory

[Maxous]

VOTE: Fake God

I find it interesting that tml voted him but regardless, this should happen.

Teams as they stand are Junpei-kdowns DV | TML-shotty-FG.
Worked it out last night.

What do you think about tml voting fg?

kdowns is okay I suppose.

Mastin and Junpei are still not a good idea.

[Maxous]

vote drmyshottyizsik

baffled hes alive.

Ehh, why would be surprised that he is alive?

2. I have read a decent chunk of the game but I get a headache when I try and go back and come up with a case.

On who?

Actually,

unvote, vote: kdowns

I don't think FG wagon is going anywhere..might as well get something going.

kdowns is an okay choice for lynch

[Maxous]

Just responding to the prod for the moment.

Will get doing stuff tonight.

[Maxous]

vote drmyshottyizsik

baffled hes alive.

ZZZZZ lynch shotty please

So im still voting scum.

Benmage,do you have a game that you remember where you successfully got somebody lynched using this strategy?

[Maxous]

@NC: I mean backed off in that I stopped trying to convince you I'm not scum. At this point this seems like a pretty useless endeavor wouldn't you agree? You came off the scum read list for late day 2 play. Don't you have a scumread on FG?

Why demean my scumread on him then?

Can you point out

how

Nero is demeaning your scumread on FG?

Because I don't see it.
Also,

@Code: You know what I'm sick of you trying to push a quick lynch through today OK? Relax. We don't need to push through a lynch as quickly as possible. There's no reason to do so right now.

And I really want people to take a look at Fake God again. Tell me why he isn't scum. So yeah. I'm not gonna give up on this lynch yet. If you don't like this, well, go suck an egg.

As for Junpei, I don't like the way he responded anytime someone deigned to question his alignment. It was smug and overdefensive. Yes, if things don't go my way I'll probably meander over to that slot. No, I don't want to do that now, especially when we are getting a replacement that will hopefully confirm that vague thoughts about Junpei I have.

Code X asked you why you had'nt voted Junpei at all in the game despite him being your number 3 suspect.
Why did you write that first paragraph in response? It makes little sense in the context. He was'nt pushing for a speed lynch with that post.

Can you give example(s) of Junpei being smug and overdefensive? And explain why being smug is a scumtell?

[Maxous]

vote drmyshottyizsik

baffled hes alive.

Ehh, why would be surprised that he is alive?

2. I have read a decent chunk of the game but I get a headache when I try and go back and come up with a case.

On who?

Actually,

unvote, vote: kdowns

I don't think FG wagon is going anywhere..might as well get something going.

kdowns is an okay choice for lynch

An OKAY choice for a lynch? We've provided you with an excellent Junpei wagon (that you are BLATANTLY deflecting, mind you) and all you can do is sit here and vote someone because they are an "OKAY" choice for a lynch? What have you even done this game that suggests you shouldn't be hanged this instant?

What do you want me to do Hez?
I don't find Junpei scummy save for that one moment after KK's fake hammer.
I feel kdowns is a better choice and the only realistic alternative, hence my vote.

Gonna assume the last question is rhetorical.

You may do my request for Nero Cain for him, but unless and until I get a statement from outside of the game made by neither Nero Cain nor me that says a multiball can consist of one Mafia team and a serial killer, my vote is not budging.

For the record this is wrong, what other people define as multi-ball is irrelevant.

It's only important what Nero beleives the term refers to.

@Psyche:

Why don't you just read day 3 or something and give your opinion/reads and such?
You don't have to read the entire game to form an opinion.
And you been around enough to read a lot of late day2/day 3 posts right?

Give us a quick list of your impressions based on them.
I don't even care about backed up reasoning at this point.

For the record I skipped Mastin's stuff for the moment, I will get around to it tomorrow hopefully.

[Maxous]

Sticking with my vote. DV, maybe some day you'll be able to articulate what suddenly made you list me as apparently the scummiest player in the game, but for now I'm just going to ignore you because there is nothing to respond to in what you said.

Thank you for claiming to me.

Unvote: Kdowns

Vote: OhGodMyLife

Deas..why are you doing this again?

How do you expect this to get OMGL lynched? Can you elaborate please?

[Maxous]

Meh, fine.
I don't see how OMGL's response is particulary scummy though.

@peregrine: can you please fix the quote on the first paragraph of post #2268?

~Fixed.

[Maxous]

I don't see how OMGL's response is particulary scummy though.

Hmm ok. How do you think scum would respond differently?

idk.
Not saying it is a town looking response, he just said he is'nt responding because there is nothing from the line to respond to.

I guess more to the point is how you expected town to react to the statement.

[Maxous]

Which is a response?

touche.
not sure if I follow your reasoning correctly though. you think town would of been suspicious of you for posting such reasoning? call you scummy?

unvote, vote:fake god[\b]

seems to be more support for this than I thought.

[Maxous]

ugh,

unvote, vote: fake god

[Maxous]

andrews 2314 slightly pings my scumdar. I don't get why he's asking for claims.

Really?
In case a cop or equivilant claimed a clear which would make the catch-up reading easier..

@:Benmage

Going to direct you this post

@Andrew: Junpei and Mastin claimed VT. That's it iirc.

[Maxous]

Fine.

vote:fallman7

Let's just get this over with.

[Maxous]

Okay so, if I was to start pushing fakegod again would anybody help me?
Would rather it than benmage.
Benmage is acceptable if it comes to it (did he ever explain why he felt so strongly about lld?).

Was thinking tml but with that claim it would'nt be a good idea.

Not from my phone, but BS has been his lead suspect for the last two days.

Percy and I are the two most experienced people here, true or false?

The most experienced should be leading, or trying to if they're town. (Not obviously blind to others logic) true or false?

Got a bit of a laugh from this comment

I will have time tomorrow to properly look at things with LLD.
Most of the rest of the playerlist is a jumble of null and nullish.

[Maxous]

oh yeah, can tml give brief reasons as to why if chose each target

[Maxous]

-___-

[Maxous]

okay that might of been patronizing >.>

anyway a sk would be foolish to claim like that.
if Andrew is the sk the vig better counter claim.

[Maxous]

prolly nk immune.

[Maxous]

as in the sk.
particularly if all claimed roles are true

[Maxous]

Psyche has been floating around this thread long enough to have on opinion on things.

Absolute promise to give this game proper effort tomorrow, just unexpected stuff came up and such -.-

p.s. are we aiming to lynch mafia or the sk here? I'm a bit confused about it.

[Maxous]

vote:FakeGod

Still going for this. Fake God is constantly saying nothing and just popping down votes without explaining anything.
The only opinion he gave apart from his votes was stating that shotgun should'nt be confirmed town.
Jason was pretty scummy too with his walls that were very lacking in substansial opinions. (the only thing was psyche-scum for not answering questions and benmage-scum because benmage said he was'nt gonna read mastin's walls iirc.)

Plausible scumbuddy with lld imo. Nero asked LLD for an opinion of FG 4 times he said and she did'nt answer that she thought it would be a distraction from the Junpei wagon?
How? She was'nt exactly calling FG scum.
Her opinion on Jason was "town as he gets" due to meta or something for the record.
The only other mention was 'I'll have a look at him' at the end of D3.

Psyche might actually be a buddy. LLD calls him null town, states she did'nt like firestarter's scum-read on him.
The only other mention is telling him to start being useful or 'get dead' whatever.
And told Nero she would ISO Psyche to see if she could justify the suspicion on him. She never went back to it though, even though Psyche well, just done the same thing as always.
That little back and forth looked like a weak attempt at distancing imo.

OGML, maybe. She was on the fence really regarding Firestarter.
Bit interesting that LLD did actually go back and ISO Firestarter when Nero asked her for an opinion on him though, in contrast to psyche and FG. Meh.

Nothing else stood out to me much apart from the whole thing with Red.

[Maxous]

@Code X:

ohgodmylife or Hezlucky (most likely SK)

I thought with this comment Andrew was calling OGML and Hezlucky the most likely candidates for a sk.
Thus I thought Andrew was voting OGML cause he thought he was the serial killer and yourself voted OGML for being a mafia buddy of LLD's.
Hence my confusion, but it seems andrew was just calling Hez the sk so nevermind.

Anyone?

I sense as a result LLD will have defending her scum buddies more than attacked them? Thoughts?

Probably true.

I've actually glossed over the SC-benmage debate, I'll go over it later.

[Maxous]

Why is benmage voting ogml?

I don't get it.

[Maxous]

Sorry, I'm probably missing something and don't have time to look for it right now, but what's this thing about OGML being a scum PR?

He thinks scum are setting up wagons to save ogml because he is important

I was actually serious when I asked why exactly benmage is voting ogml.

@Benmage: Can you give a tl;dr please? I don't follow your thoughtline clearly.

[Maxous]

^
Do you think OGML is scummy apart from Andrew's theory? I can't remember.

[Maxous]

VI = village idiot.

"you're just stupid and terrible at this game", basically.

[Maxous]

you think he is scummy because he made a show of stating he was ignoring your gut suspicion on him instead of analyzing your post/point to check your motovations like you believe town would of.

you are conflicted because he drew up potential links to lld without making a point of explaining those links like you would expect scum to do.

what would you like to discuss about that?
both points seen meh imo

[Maxous]

ugh, he's just posting a ton of rubbish. everytime.

I don't get why he is being ignored so much.

[Maxous]

His latest post of "If you don't do this I'll vote for you" is not genuine scumhunting at all, because it's not actually considering whether it makes him likely scum or not

Actually yeah, this point does have merit.

[Maxous]

Fake God has literally not provided any explanation for a scum suspect in the game. He just throws down a vote and dissapears for like, 10 days.
I don't see any evidence of scumhunting in his posts either.
Plus yeah he is dodging DLG like a boss.

And if you get the time look over Jason's walls posts too. Pay close attention to the reasoning he gives for his scumreads (more to the point 'lack of')

Plus LLD had that weird "I was ignoring giving an opinion on him even though I think he's townish because he would distract the Junpei wagon"...somehow

There's a summary I guess.

[Maxous]

lol, that's a weird statistics picture.

I don't think I've seen two mafia be such counter wagons before (I think they were anyway?)

I will look at it... later

[Maxous]

Psyche

RachMarie

DLG

Code_X
Benmage
maxwell
HezLucky

redFF

Maxous

StrangerCoug

Rach..claimed cop...leave her
Dlg..cop clear.
Red..claimed doc..leave him.

@Anybody: Do you think it is possible a Serial Killer in this game could be investigative immune along with a godfather that was?
Particulary @ Hez, benmage, and SC who I think(?) have been in numerous games.

I'll remove benmage and Code X from the list. Don't wanna lynch either of them today.
Which leaves Psyche, Maxwell, Hez and SC.
Probably be okay with lynching any of them 4.

[Maxous]

It's kinda annoying how ben does'nt answer direct questions.

FakeGod voting Benmage. FakeGod was part of the early Day 4 quick push on Benmage. Given that FakeGod avoided voting who he knew was his scum buddy PR, and his all Day stance on Benmage, I really don't believe he was bussing Benmage. This means that Benmage is probably only scum if this is a 2 scum team set-up as opposed to 1 scum team and Serial Killer.

Any particular reason you don't think he is a SK?
Did I miss it earlier?

[Maxous]

this:

@Anybody: Do you think it is possible a Serial Killer in this game could be investigative immune along with a godfather that was?
Particulary @ Hez, benmage, and SC who I think(?) have been in numerous games.

Since you're one of the more experienced heads.
Like, how likely do you think it would be or is it unlikely enough not to worry about?

P-Edit: Code X's D4 play read as town to me. I would rather not lynch him.

[Maxous]

Oh, I'm assuming the SK is bulletproof. Wondering if people think he could also be investigative immune also.

I remembered a large normal game in which Mastin('s hydra) was both as a SK.

[Maxous]

Sorry was a busy weekend..prob should of announced semi-v/la or something.

I'm fine with lynching SC mostly based off his weak voting in D4.
Don't like either how he just randomly decided to sheep Andrew's PR theory on OGML (for some reason?) despite not finding OGML scummy previously.
Not a fan of his Psyche vote also.

*** -Classic scum read positions. Town as his #1 suspects, but keeps scum partners as weaker reads, to still get cred. Classic scumtell.

This is a fair point I guess.
Think Ben is streching in a lot of the other points though.

@SC: Can you tl;dr why Benmage is scum?

I wanna disuss the Hez points that Psyche brought up later.

@DLG: Dunno but it's possible.
I have mislynched town before because I beleived "no way could X wagon be all town" when it was.

[Maxous]

meh

vote:Stranger Coug

that summary on why Ben is scum does'nt impress me.
and I cannot figure out why he was calling Ben scum at the start of the day (as in the reasoning behind it.)
which could merit the forcing consistency point also I suppose.

@DLG: I will take a look at the day 2 wagon/VCA when I get home then and see w/e

@Rach: you said you have a case on Maxwell?

p-edit - :S

[Maxous]

but TML was scummy prior to his claim and the Cop claim could easily be fabricated.

Possibly. I agree TML was scummy.

As for FG's LOTR thing it was intentionally written to be confusing I beleive. He called drmyshotgun Frodo(the main hero of the story) but said:

dude, Frodo is one of the sketchiest characters in LoTR. I don't trust you.

so..yeah
And for example he calls psyche Merry or Pippin which is a side protagonist or a side protagonist...? -.-

Side Note - when people are doing VCA can they stop colouring in unconfirmed town as green? even if it's yourself just use a different colour or something, it's a bit confusing at first glance.

Maybe there is another scum on the Seacore lynch?
I would'nt lynch based off it tbh.
Doubt Red is scum regardless.

btw is this 'another scum on the seacore wagon' referring to another mafia only or another scum inclusive of a SK?

[Maxous]

@ Code X: Why are you okay with being investigated?

[Maxous]

Alright, so results please Rach?

I'm thinking Maxwell would prolly be the best option today, barring Rach claiming a guilty of course.

[Maxous]

Meh, Hez is very likely to be a SK regardless of Max's alignment.

Scum Max lying to get town Hez lynched makes no sense in the situation and would be professional suicide

I'll hang on since DLG wants other to post etc.

[Maxous]

Re: Balance.

I would suspect the mafia had day talk. Would balance it out I think (I'm not a reviewer though)

[Maxous]

Once roles were assigned, that dropped somewhat (read: a lot).

Hmm, imo the biggest problem for the scum team in the game was too many of the mislynchable town players got important must kill PR's.
So we had to leave the stronger players alive and... well got screwed over in the latter half of the game.

ftr I agree with your decision re:Andrew

Maxwell's arguments in LYLO was excellent though and he really carried the scum-team from D5 ownwards, coming up with the FBI fakeclaim too.

Ben was particulary good too, Day 4 ownwards (and he made sure we knew it ) but was real impressed with how Max won this for us ^_____^

[Maxous]

by the way that Jack of all trades could of ripped the scum-team apart by it'self

Holy smurf!

[Maxous]

Andrew has games where he is pretty spot on actually. I remember when I first joined the site he was riding this high of a game he played where he got a large amount of scum lynched as a PR or something.

I agree that he is a good player but I did look back at his posting and there is just....quite a few coincidences to beleive.