NY139: Underground Mafia (Game over!)

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well i'm drunk but hopefully that's the best time to do this

vote:nunez

for distracting flavor yezt what

[eep]

I edge into the corner as I hear my name, each syllable dropping like iron weights into my gut. "No... no come on guys you can't do this.." I clench my fists as I think about the things I have yet to do, promises I have to keep. I remember the first time me and Molly met, I faintly remember the smell of grass as I recall our summer walks through the parks. My teeth grind and I feel cool sweat dripping down my back. "God damn it..."

you have one vote on you. Stop being dramatic.

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wait i thought he was just afraid of not leaving here alive

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sorgster definitely has some reason he especially wants to stay alive, and I'm leaning towards scum.

That being said, I'm a little wary of Vifam because of the number of people he seems to be defending, albeit in a somewhat joking manner.

Has anyone played a game with Nunez? Do we know if he will stop being weird?

Hey back off, his wife just died.

Wait really? Shit, I'm sorry, I had no idea. That certainly explains it, I can't imagine that.

If it is the case, then it is certainly tragic, but how does that explain anything?

[eep]

I'm not defending anyone, this is more about focusing pressure on Sorg rather then defending TTA ( Who is null right now).

I think TheAwesomeAll's post was a bit confusing, even if sorgster massively overreacted to it, but, you're right, that isn't important. And nonetheless,

unvote, vote: sorgster

.

...it would be terrible to get rid of a cop or doc D1. Definitely someone to keep an eye on, but we don't have enough information to make a foolproof case that he's scum.

and we never will, til he's dead.

Not to say it's terrible not to vote him, but looking for a foolproof case might be the wrong way of going about things.

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EBWOP:

I should replace "Basic reading comprehension" with "Reading carefully".

The lack of commas made it confusing.

The first way I read it was that sorgster had sold out his mafia buddy uncledaphne to protect his own ass.

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how so?

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e first way I read it was that sorgster had sold out his mafia buddy uncledaphne to protect his own ass.

That's the way I first read it to and was why I was completly confused. But that made no sense at all to me. I'm not scum. I don't understand how saying I'm confused makes me scummy.

it's not that you got confused, it's that you got super aggressively defensive about it.

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This is an instalynch or bust game, isn't it? I don't understand.

Still suspicious of sorgster but gonna

unvote

for now, seems like he just freaks out easily.

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freaking out easily is not a town trait eep

scum doesn't freak out in the same way as town, though. I'm not convinced that he's showing us a scum trait as opposed to a normal personality trait.

nor is wishy washyness eep

nor is constantly gunning for an easy target

regardless there are other players in the game and sorgster is being boring and repetitive. But by all means, carry on, crusader.

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also,

stringer bell

for being overly cautious.

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I'm calling him stupid what?

Oh
My
God
You're
Stupid

OMGUS.

And since I didn't see anyone vote you after YOU voted THEM, I thought that was what you're trying to say. If not what the hell are you saying?


Anyway, it should be noted the two people to defend Sorg were doing it for terrible reason.


One being: "Poor Scumhunting" (While not doing much of his own)

The other being: I "overreacted" which is ridiculous seeing how Sorg's reaction to TTA's vote was an "overreaction".


I wouldn't be surprized if Sorg were to flip scum, one of these guys would be his buddy.

But that's a talk for a different time.

its oh my god you suck derp

I'm pretty sure Vifam was making a joke and goddamn is this game getting weighed down with discussing jokes.

unvote, vote: uncledaphne

for pulling an OMGUS every other vote.

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EBWOP

and also for flipflopping even more than I have, Jesus Christ.

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http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... er_sort=Go


ONLY completed Scum game, I don't think I was aggressive.

also, regardless of how Vifam might have acted in whatever other game, I think this does demonstrate that meta is a poor strategy for identifying his allegiances.

FoS: David Xanatos

for focusing on that one meta more than looking for scumtells.

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I'm not uprising, but unless I missed something, you had a vote on Vifam, who you have consistently found suspicious, and then switched to a "placeholder" vote on someone you think is town? That does not make any sense.

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beat me to it, redff. Games here are normally cardflip games, no? Keeping my vote where it's at.

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so is eep, ftr

i checked the thread on my phone before I went to sleep.

that being said, i didn't see this or several of the posts before this one, so i think the forum might just have a lag in that regard.

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Unvote
Vote:Daphne

I agree I overreacted a bit to the first post.

You admit this on an L-1 vote? Seems pretty opportunistic.

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I'm doubtful that Stringer Bell is scum. Let's get that out of the way. Scum leading a wagon like this is pretty risky. I need to check if he started the wagon though. If he did, then it stays the same. If he didn't, the one who did start it and may, or may not, depending on if he's on the wagon, be scum. I need to check though.

iirc Stringer was the first VOTE on daphne, but that was during RVS and he just never switched off. He's not at the top of my suspicion list but I wouldn't clear him off just yet. Paraffin was the first one to vote for daphne in a more wagony way, but this doesn't help us.

Also, there was sort of a demi-wagon (of like 3 people. tremi-wagon?) on sorgster at one point, and then I think on Vifam?

Vifam started the votes on sorgster, and Paraffin started the votes on Vifam here. daphne seconded paraffin. After a lot of fluffy discussion, paraffin changed his vote to daphne and Vifam quickly followed suite. And generally started agreeing with paraffin thereafter. Yes, daphne was actually suspicious, but something about the timing here is striking me as really odd.

Despite his earlier aggressive stance, Vifam hasn't really been all that firm with initiating accusations since sorgster. So, for now, VOTE: Vifam.

Also,

FoS: rainman

for lounging around telling us why he doesn't think anyone's suspicious and never casting a serious vote.

[eep]

Who else,other than me, has vifam initiated accusations on anyways? Daphne did too many scummy things. He had to get lynched.

Vifam initiated accusations against David Xanatos and TheAwesomeAll today. Yes, daphne was scummy, I voted for him too. That alone is not suspicious, but it's worthwhile to explore the reasons and situations surrounding people's votes for him.

Firm? Where have I not been firm in my stances?

I mean that you've been casting votes very lightly and pulling them back equally lightly, instead of picking away at them like you did with sorgster.

Just to tack on a few points;

for better or for worse, I otherwise mostly agree with Vifam's reads on other players, except that I don't quite understand why he jumped off David Xanatos. theAwesomeAll is definitely being a bit of a "go with the flow" player.

The players we've heard nothing to almost nothing from are AntB, Nunez, Daybid, StevieT92, and nocase. Would like to hear from them.

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Also, sorgster, you seem to be very intent on repeatedly going for the inactive AntB instead of doing any real scumhunting on the active players. Not saying that AntB is in the clear or whatever, but any reason why?

@Vifam, fair enough. I'm not saying that it's a good idea to just gun down the first suspicion that comes to mind and ignore all the other players, I just wasn't sure why you changed playstyle.

That being said, I feel like you started doing that halfway through day 1, so I'll keep my vote where it is for now.

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hurg, my internet decided to crap out on me, so some of these responses are a bit past-due. Oh well.

I would also like to hear some more from AntB. Surely things like the fact that paraffin is dead now have factored into your readings? You gave us notes when a paragraph or something would be nice.

Also, sorgster, you seem to be very intent on repeatedly going for the inactive AntB instead of doing any real scumhunting on the active players. Not saying that AntB is in the clear or whatever, but any reason why?

@Vifam, fair enough. I'm not saying that it's a good idea to just gun down the first suspicion that comes to mind and ignore all the other players, I just wasn't sure why you changed playstyle.

That being said, I feel like you started doing that halfway through day 1, so I'll keep my vote where it is for now.

Because he is confirmed but refuses to post? If you don't vote them, they may watch the thread and say absolutely nothing or only say fluff like nunez.

2 problems with this: (1) Nunez continued to watch/say nothing even after votes were put on him and (2) this means that you're focusing all of your attention on getting inactives to post. It's one thing if you want to just put a vote on one of the inactives, but you seem to be doing so at the expense of looking at other players. Also, there are other inactives, so I'm not sure why you were just choosing this one?

My point is that you seem to be waiting to provide a lot of your actual reasoning until after someone else has voted for your target, and I'd be interested in seeing your reasoning independent of what the current votes stats are.

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oh yeah, also i will be a bit less active until next wednesday on account of partying/quals, but i will try to post at least once a day or so

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Voting someone for posting fluff is a pretty iffy vote. If anything its a null-tell, you have no idea what I am you are just taking shots in the dark, and with this many dead townies I doubt that's a smart thing to do.

I think the idea is that, regardless of your actual allegiance, you aren't acting in a very pro-town way if you're just posting nothing. if we can't lynch scum, the next best thing is to lynch a player who isn't helping town. come end game, the last thing we want is a player whom we have absolutely no read on. he's putting a pressure vote on you to participate, and that's not a bad move given what you've shown us so far.

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so TheAwesomeAll is striking me as terribly opportunistic and relying on kinda weak tells.

unvote, vote: TheAwesomeAll

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HEY SOMEONE

VOTE FOR ME

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HEY SOMEONE

VOTE FOR ME

Fos: eep

don't get this at all. Post something productive, this is not it.

nono, not

Fos:eep

, like this: VOTE: eep

So you're voting an inactive Nunez to pressure him? How does that even work.. I know atleast I'm not prepared to waste a lynch on something which I won't get anything out of -

his lynch provides zilch meaning we'll have nothing to go on, on Day 3.

How do you figure?

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hey so anyone else notice that nunez has made exactly two posts at the beginning of each day and then disappeared?

maybe he is the serial killer. that flavor text sounds awfully consistent with losing it and going on a murderous rampage D:

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If I vote you will something cool happen?

only one way to find out!

Why is everyone voting Nunez? He comes off as more unexperienced than scummy to me.

i think we just want him to stop dicking around and play the game

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jester? oh, no, no. I wouldn't be nearly so obvious about being the jester.

In other news, here's my case against Rainman:

(1) He seems strangely convinced that lynching Nunez will DEFINITELY not provide us with any new information. I'm wondering where he's getting his conviction from.
(2) He didn't actually vote until I FoS'd him for not really doing anything.
(3) He's basically only defended people.

And so, I

unvote

, VOTE: TheRainman.

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can't say until it happens

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by the way possibly nothing cool will happen and don't let this take you away from your scheduled scumhunting

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hiraki, what and what and what?

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vifam said something about the cool thing, not me. ask him.

so nunez, who do you think is scum?

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I didn't say something awesome would happen. I just asked to be voted for.

Maybe I felt like we weren't getting enough information by other means.
Maybe I felt like I was coming across as "too town"
Maybe I'm the jester.
Maybe I have a secret new role called "flasher" who gets to show their alignment to one player every day they get to L-1 and survive.
Endless possibilities!

P.S. I'm a girl.

[eep]

NOPE SORRY

unvote

VOTE: David Xanatos

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I didn't say something awesome would happen. I just asked to be voted for.

Maybe I felt like we weren't getting enough information by other means.
Maybe I felt like I was coming across as "too town"
Maybe I'm the jester.
Maybe I have a secret new role called "flasher" who gets to show their alignment to one player every day they get to L-1 and survive.
Endless possibilities!

P.S. I'm a girl.

So now that you've gotten some votes, would you like to tell us why you did that?

P.S. sorry bout that, I'll try to remember.

Several reasons:
(1) There's like no suspicion on me. It was partly a misplaced attempt to get some suspicion. The only time it's good to have zero suspicions is if you're bulletproof or some variant. It all failed, though. I'm probably fucked.
(2) We weren't really getting much new information. I wanted to see if doing something totally nonsensical would get some interesting responses. And it did, to some degree; sorgster and David Xanatos took a risk, which means they're probably town. You and StevieT92 got annoyed, which makes you two more suspicious in my book.

And, no worries on the girl/not front. (:

Nunez lynch won't provide any information because he hasn't even said anything.. What do we get out of it? Nothing. Zilch. Now that he's showed up though I think we'd all appreciate it if he would stop dicking around. If he's got a PR then he would've at least said something constructive.

I disagree with this; if he flips scum, it's useful on its own, and we could also tell something about the players who hesitated/were opposed to lynching him. It's only if he's town that we don't get any information. You seem to be hinting that you know he's town.

So, UNVOTE: David Xanato, VOTE: TheRainman

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(1) There's like no suspicion on me. It was partly a misplaced attempt to get some suspicion. The only time it's good to have zero suspicions is if you're bulletproof or some variant. It all failed, though. I'm probably fucked.

Something seems a little out of place with the last sentence. Fucked how? you didn't exactly get wagonned to death.

why would I want suspicion if I was worried about getting wagoned to death? I don't mean I'm fucked in today's lynch.

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what do u mean fucked then? and i'm not that suspicious of you i just want some clarification

basically i wasn't sure why i only seemed to be on town lists and wanted to see if i could adjust that a bit. method failed.

"fucked" was an overstatement, though.

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oh, is it that time already?

Lol seriously? I'm hinting I know he's town so you vote me as mafia? Only a true dumbass of a mafia would out themselves like that. You guys are missing the point completely, this doesn't haev anything to do with Nunez. If you have an extreamly inactive member and have no real indication of his alignment. You lynch him and don't get any information from what he's said, from how he's reacted, how he takes the pressure etc. The only small bit you get is that which we have right now with us bickering back and forth..

how is this all that different than what we would get out of voting anyone else? we lynch people because they seem anti-town, not because it's an amazing way to get information.

honestly I don't even want to lynch nunez because I get the feeling he's town, but your reasoning feels a bit like buddying.

eep, they didnt take a risk. All you did was give scum a perfectly good opportunity to get active, post something and blend in. im pretty sure one of you sorgster and david is scum.

except all three of us were active before that and with the exception if maybe sorgster blending in just fine?

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i'm not sure what you're saying, then.

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also, @Uprising

how many scum do you think we have?

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oh, is it that time already?

Lol seriously? I'm hinting I know he's town so you vote me as mafia? Only a true dumbass of a mafia would out themselves like that. You guys are missing the point completely, this doesn't haev anything to do with Nunez. If you have an extreamly inactive member and have no real indication of his alignment. You lynch him and don't get any information from what he's said, from how he's reacted, how he takes the pressure etc. The only small bit you get is that which we have right now with us bickering back and forth..

how is this all that different than what we would get out of voting anyone else? we lynch people because they seem anti-town,

not because it's an amazing way to get information.

honestly I don't even want to lynch nunez because I get the feeling he's town, but your reasoning feels a bit like buddying.

@the bolded part. You're kidding me right?

no? we get information from discussions like these, not from lynching people. how exactly would lynching, say, me get us more information than lynching nunez?

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Lol. What are you guys on some third party team? You revealing right now would be pretty idiotic so I'm willing to guess you're both mafia and that when sorgster flips town you can act all innocent and pull the "I told you so" card.

so it was retarded for me to suggest that you hinting you knew nunez was town could be a scumtell, but it makes sense that they're both mafia if they think sorgster is town?

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actually that's a good idea, having your scum/town reads together means that scum can't just shoot off the relatively confirmed townies.

[eep]

actually that's a good idea, having your scum/town reads together means that scum can't just shoot off the relatively confirmed townies.

No, it's stupid and vague. If he's scum and any of those players flip scum he can say "He was one of those players to look out for as scum!", it makes me think it's a masked attempt to bus.

i mean in the end just a list of "players to watch out for" is kinda useless in terms of casting votes. i doubt anyone's going to get lynched without any reason.

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mmkkay, actually David has been relying on all too many metas and generally distracting the conversation away from this game.

unvote

,VOTE: David Xanatos

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yeah so i am not really sure what's going on in this thread and also i am not really convinced enough about david xanatos so

unvote

for now and i will look over the thread again sometime tomorrow.

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If you want us to give you reasoning for YOUR scumreads you have another thing coming.

Nice threat. And its to make you look closer at the players I've mentioned...

---

QFT. Someone who has something to hide, and makes it blatantly obvious that they are hiding something, is scum.

Town hide things all the time. Also scum wouldn't blatantly hide something. The only thing I'm hiding is if they are town/scum. The people on that list are my strongest reads, one way or the other.

Scum will pick me off if I'm right, or try and and frame me if I'm wrong. All I'm doing is making them think.

---

No surprise at the redFF vote

---

Anyone voting me for that list needs to step back and use their brains and really think about it.

---

Self-voter ¬_¬

---

You really think if me and david were scum together we'd be happy at being the only two wagons? If it was the case, that would be epic bussing.

---

Self affirming townie scum... I hate those guys.

---

"I'm VT - Hey mod, can my ability hit anyone or my wagon?" - derp

---

Everyone is being very vague this game.. its interesting.

David needs to be lynched, he's basically hit self-destruct and town don't do that.

Seeing as everyone is bitching about my list, I'll turn it into the scums shopping list.
TRM and Hiraki are town, the rest are probsscum. Sorgster is VI/Newbtown.
redFF is also on the list now.

@antb, hiraki and sorgster I get, but why do you think rainman is town?

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oh huh

apparently I massively misunderstood that quote button. k.

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mkay, so I'm still not really sure what's going on here. David Xanatos is anti-town regardless of his allegiance, but I'm just not sure what that allegiance is.

Here are several guesses/observations/rants/whatever. (and I'll try to make them clear just for you, vifam <3)
(1) David Xanatos and vifam are not scumbuddies together; if one of them flips scum, the other is town. The reverse is not necessarily true, though. Vifam is getting too freaked out by David's behavior for them to be in communication with each other.
(2) The people I would rate as the most town are Hiraki, Nunez (unfortunately...), and trekker.
(3) The people I think are the most scummy are Uprising, TAA, and one of David Xanatos and Vifam.
Uprising for generally hanging in the background and not making any serious votes.
TAA for generally being very opportunistic with his finger-pointing but not really getting involved in discussion.
David Xanatos for the general metas and various other ridiculousness, also excess cutesiness with Vifam more than actually scumhunting? But his Vengeful townie claim seems legit. If this is the case, then I would rather look at other players than him, because he's likely to get nightkilled, being a semi-suspicious role like that. This would give us one more townie tomorrow. But he's being way too obvious with this gambit.
Vifam for switching really quickly between being aggressive/opportunistic and being cautious/freaking out when people are unpredictable.
(4) I think redFF and sorgster are suspicious, but I can't tell whether they're just naturally scummy or what.
(5) I lean angry town on StevieT92 and Stringer Bell.
(6) I lean scum on Daybid. He also has even fewer posts than Nunez, and most of them have been voting people for very token reasons.
(7) nocase doesn't strike me as all that scummy, but he's made 2 posts for all of today? Seriously? What the hell.
(8) I'm getting a bit sick of people making suggestions that anyone who doesn't understand what they're doing is being stupid. Especially rainman, but also AntB to some degree. There's more than one way to play this game, and it isn't ridiculous if other players get confused by your playstyle, nor is it particularly helpful to redirect the game to discussion about whether certain players are smart or stupid based on that.

Rainman in particular has only cast one serious vote, and that was after I FoS'd him. Sure, he's been popping in to say xy or z are bad ideas, but he hasn't really been scumHUNTING so much as waiting for other people to cast votes that he agrees with so that he can jump on the train. Or waiting for other people to cast votes so he can tell them they're stupid. I suppose it's really easy to just sit around telling other people why they're wrong if you're never really putting any ideas out there.

Also, seriously? A Nunez lynch wouldn't provide any information? It would provide information simply by virtue of giving us his role/cardflip information, as well as information about who wants to jump on the bandwagon of an easy target. PLEASE explain what further information you would get from lynching a highly active player. Unless a player flips some sort of role, we don't get any more information from their reads/whatever else than we do from any other player. Also, do you honestly think that pressure votes are worthless? And do you honestly think that a full-out bandwagon is likely to build up against a totally inactive player this early in the game?

Lastly, you suggest here that you do actually have some special reason to believe that Nunez is town. You also suggest that it can't POSSIBLY be because you're mafia, because only a dumbass would do something like that. Which seems to suggest that you're hinting at being a role. Which is crazy crazy suspicious this early in the game. The best possibility is that you're something like masons together, but given that paraffin was a neighborizer, I don't know how likely I find that.

To be honest, I can't really tell whether I'm just tunneling because I'm really annoyed with how you're playing, so I'm not going to vote for you yet, but serious, serious FoS.

But I do objectively find Vifam and David Xanatos to be the most suspicious players at the moment, but I'm not sure who is most suspicious. So, VOTE: David Xanatos. If he flips town, then I think we should look at Vifam tomorrow.

Also Vifam where did you explain?

[eep]

nope, L-1, unless I'm missing something.

[eep]

I explained that.

[eep]

I know that, but you basically freaked because he claimed vengeful, which was weird to me.

[eep]

also for freaking out when people are being vague, it just struck me as an overreaction.

[eep]

the ones that are wishy washy, overly cautious, apologetic, and generally avoiding the game. I recommend page 1 as well for the more defensive posts.

so maybe I am not the best judge but I'm pretty sure this describes the opposite of most of my play style.

[eep]

so am I the only person who finds uprising crazy suspicious?

[eep]

you've been lying very low, keeping out of most of the major discussion, and really only giving your reads on one or two players.

[eep]

Maybe I'm playing things up too much, but I think "procrastinating" on reads and posting very little reasoning is kinda scummy.

Also why I'm suspicious of Daybid.

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wait, isn't that what redff is saying?

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yeah, hiraki, I am convinced that redff is obnoxious. not that he's scum, though.

but, it's worth a reread on my part

[eep]

antb, problem is my 2 other scumreads flipped town, so im a little lost tbh.

so you only have 3 scumreads for this entire game?

[eep]

also wait, I thought you found sorgster scummy? or did you just vote for him because he seemed like an easy target?

[eep]

"coincidentally" the person you called most suspicious is also the person with the most votes on him

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VOTE: redff

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hurg, you're right. missed that in just iso'ing, whoops.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: uprising

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taa, who do you think is town?

[eep]

voted red for the reasons listed in the previous three posts

voted you after that because I realized I misread my main reason and because I've generally just found you suspicious in a "staying in the sidelines" sort of way

[eep]

but no uprising?

how do you figure?

[eep]

for reals

also, I guess we know what a day without vifam looks like now :/

[eep]

no activity

also I guess I should clarify that by "day" I mean 24 hour period.

[eep]

I can't find where you explained your stringer bell read.

I think I'd rather do theawesomeall.

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these are not linking me to pages where stringer bell has posted at all

are there multiple page settings on this forum?

[eep]

wait, 586 is his post

I don't really feel like that was piggy-backing, especially because he didn't just jump around to the most likely lynch candidates from what I can tell.

got anything else?

[eep]

no kidding

UNVOTE:
VOTE: StevieT92

[eep]

Okay! So here's a somewhat more serious think through of the currently living players who I've been suspicious of or whom others have been suspicious of.

TheRainman:
59 - RV after RVS ended with the sorgster wagon.
He spends most of the game buddying pretty much everyone except Vifam, but also suggests that Stringer Bell might be suspicious here, but that he has no desire to vote stringer bell unless he's bandwagoning. Also changes his mind on sorgster in D2.
He seems very concerned with getting information out of lynches, which is confusing to me? Or perhaps more relevantly, the question is under what circumstances a player would be more interested in getting information out of players instead of lynching them. At any rate, he doesn't seem very endgame-oriented.

Daybid:
Has literally made 5 posts with almost no content, and doesn't really seem to be following the thread. um...

AntB:
Can't really get a read on him, but I actually found his post summarizing the votes that happened and the reasons why really helpful especially in the case of Stringer Bell. Except, he portrays Stringer Bell, for instance, as defending sorgster with a daphne vote, and I really can't find any evidence of this being the case? @AntB, how did you figure that Stringer Bell was defending daphne, or that his post suggested a sorgster vote would be more logical?

Stringer Bell:
Found the unvote post that trekker was talking about. And, yeah, actually, I don't get it. @Stringer Bell, why did you unvote AntB yesterday?
also realized something else, so UNVOTE: StevieT92, VOTE: Stringer Bell.
If Stringer Bell flips town, we should look at trekker tomorrow.

redff:
doesn't strike me as scum when I totally ISO him. I'd give him a dick town read.

TheAwesomeAll:
seems to believe that any player changing their mind is "wishywashy," which strikes me as very arbitrary. I would give him a scum read.

nocase:
would be nice if he would post a little more. I have absolutely no read on him. Coincidentally, he proposed a lynch for David Xanatos early on D2 and it happened. nocase is the hidden game master. we should lynch him.

sorgster:
overexplains everything he says, and does a lot of slightly shady stuff.
if sorgster is scum, then TheAwesomeAll is not and vice versa.

Vifam:
yeah, not really getting a scumread at all.

StevieT92:
is super angry.

Uprising:
has only ever cast a vote on AntB, and generally seems to be just sorta skimming unless called out?

[eep]

AntB:
Can't really get a read on him, but I actually found his post summarizing the votes that happened and the reasons why really helpful especially in the case of Stringer Bell. Except, he portrays Stringer Bell, for instance, as defending sorgster with a daphne vote, and I really can't find any evidence of this being the case? @AntB, how did you figure that Stringer Bell was defending daphne, or that his post suggested a sorgster vote would be more logical?

youre scum, or antB is scum, or youre both scum.

or you're scum, or stringer bell is scum, or everyone is scum

who is town????

[eep]

Finally, someone who voted me with an actual question or some sort of evidence. I originally voted AntB here, citing his super non-commital-ness. Seemed scummy to me. I reiterated my own point here when AntB asked me why I voted him, and said that I would unvote him if/when he became more town in my eyes. My scumread on AntB wasn't huge, but it was worth a vote to see what the reaction would be. When he became more town, I unvoted, just like I said I would. Then, he became more scummy here, hence my re-vote.

Puzzling over why you only seemed to work with suspicions on AntB that day.

[eep]

I reread eep's post on TRM and apparently I've misread most of TRM's posts.

Could you elaborate?

There are a bunch of people we have not seen enough of which is bothering me a ton. It's neither town-only or scum-only but it's a major pain in the ass.

yeah, we have a bunch of null-reads. bleaghlebleah.

[eep]

You know.

IF FEEL REALLY GOOD WITH THIS REDFF VOTE.

but i can change to stevie.

and only stevie.

i think redff is a dick and stevie is angry

in real life this would make them the most likely mafia

[eep]

vifam come back

[eep]

uprising is right, however i do not understand why people think you're that scummy

you're neutral-scum but there are way scummier people around i think

[eep]

I mean associations can be good and all, like how you're definitely not scum if theawesomeall is.

but, yeah, I don't think there's anyone like that for antb. maybe uprising if he's town, and maybe vifam if he's scum.

which is why we should vote someone else instead

[eep]

like taa

[eep]

VOTE: theawesomeall

[eep]

you think hiraki's scum? why?

[eep]

wait I thought he was just talking about who he found most suspicious/was willing to vote for.

[eep]

also did you just claim that all of the currently active players are scummy?

[eep]

yeah, this is weird

UNVOTE:
VOTE: soda

[eep]

okay so I'm a bit puzzled

I think soda is scummy but almost too overtly so, and that *almost* makes me not want to vote him.

also I just realized that I was on that list too, why do you think I'm scummy, soda?

[eep]

I mean rainman was not really that high on most people's scumdar so I don't see why he needs to blend in

I think it seems more like he's trying to get lynched. maybe he's a jester or something?

[eep]

mine as well, but most other people did not seem to agree.

ah, I guess jester would not be a good role in a normal game. yeah, I don't know what's up then.

[eep]

You just realized? IDK your votes are kinda bad sometimes. Although the fact you agree with me about Uprising makes me think lesser of you

You seem be conflating disagreeing with you to being scum.

That's a dangerous mistake to make, son. Although it does throw my read of you off a bit.

[eep]

can someone please tell me what the case against antb is?

[eep]

isn't this the same reason that a lot of people voted xanatos?

I mean is there really no one else you find more suspicious? because "he's posting fluff" is more of a null tell than a scum tell.

[eep]

yeah, I'm not getting a scum read.

minor point, but when he said that "the rest are probscum" I think he was talking about the rest of the people on that list he made, not the rest of the players. how would accusing most of the living players make any sense?

steviet92 is a bit higher on my scumlist now, though

[eep]

I don't want to lynch AntB.

SodaSpirit came it and posted reads that seem a bit faked to me and then just jumped on the AntB wagon, something I don't like at all.

is stringer bell a better lynch than sodaspirit?

[eep]

I kinda see where he's coming from.

you gave way too much explanation for the amount of reasoning you actually posted. seems like you're trying to make it easy to back out of the vote if things go another way.

also, the fact that you jumped off antb as soon as he got close to a lynch strikes me as odd.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: uprising

[eep]

I agree that sodaspirit is suspicious, I just also think your reasoning was a little bit odd.

Also, I feel like you've been very hesitant when it comes to casting judgments on players in even a minor way, and that hesitation strikes me as a little bit scummy.

[eep]

goddamnit, i find all of the people who are gunning for antb suspicious except for vifam, so i don't really want to vote him

but then i also find uprising suspicious and antb insists that he's town

i don't know what to do anymore

[eep]

sorgster i find you way more suspicious than antb, why should i vote for him?

also, hiraki and trekker are probably my biggest town reads, so if they don't find him suspicious i doubly don't want to vote for him

[eep]

sorgster i find you way more suspicious than antb, why should i vote for him?

also, hiraki and trekker are probably my biggest town reads, so if they don't find him suspicious i doubly don't want to vote for him

Assuming they are both town, why would they always go on scum? They could hit scum instead. So what you are saying is that you will sheep hiraki and trekker and not go after anyone they don't find suspicious. Strange.

not what I said there, and also not consistent with my voting history. I haven't just been sheeping them, and I don't intend to. but if I have a null read on someone and they have town reads, you bet your ass that I am NOT voting for that person.

okay, so, people who aren't on the antb wagon, who are you suspicious of?

I'm looking at stringer bell, sorgster, theawesomeall, sodaspirit, or uprising, though I'm actually leaning a little away from uprising?

[eep]

trekker is stringer bell the only person you will vote for today?

[eep]

TheAwesomeAll seems to be using intimidation techniques on other people, while ignoring any accusation against him.

makes me think he's scum.

[eep]

TheAwesomeAll seems to be using intimidation techniques on other people, while ignoring any accusation against him.

makes me think he's scum.

If this day goes on 10 pages longer I can compromise on ss17.

I concur.

gonna go back to
UNVOTE:
VOTE: stringer bell

[eep]

That does not describe my interactions with you at all

You're just not paying attention and trying to do whatever possible to push your own agendas on a few specific players. I've yet to see you make ANY case against anyone. And let's look at your voting history: day 1, you just gunned for sorgster until hammering on daphne. Day 2, you basically didn't do anything, but you threw a vote on sorgster for a while. Oh, and today, despite my being OH SO SUSPICIOUS, you jump OFF me and ONTO AntB once you see that no one's paying attention to your accusations and he's garnering some attention. So, by your own reasoning, we should be doing this: UNVOTE: , VOTE: TheAwesomeAll.

And, seriously, why are you more concerned with bragging post-game than with PLAYING THE GAME.

[eep]

Eep, why are you trying so hard to find a counterwagon to antb?

because no one's made a convincing case against antb and I'd like to vote someone who I actually find suspicious?

if you're trying to goad me into voting for him, it won't work.

[eep]

Eep, why are you trying so hard to find a counterwagon to antb?

Possible that eep doesn't think antb is scum? If one of your town reads was being wagoned on, you would try to find a counterwagon on someone you thought was scum, would you not?

also, fyi, you're pretty high on my scumlist.

sorgster would be up there too, but i'm pretty sure only one of sorgster and taa can possibly be scum, and for now my pick is sorgster.

[eep]

I don't think I have been posting much more since antB got suspicion. And uprising certainly hasn't; he's been getting suspicion since yesterday. I still find her suspicious, but this isn't a good case against her.

I've been making cases against other people, which I find far more convincing than the case against antb. I JUST made one in the post before your last one, but apparently in your book, that's just gunning for a counter-wagon and not to be taken seriously. The fact that he's been posting fluff is, at best, a null tell.

I'd rather lynch one of these three people: stringer bell, taa, or sorgster. For two reasons: (1) I find these people suspicious, for reasons that have been spelled out in the thread repeatedly and (2) because if one of these people flips scum, we'll have more information about another player.

[eep]

yeah, that's a typo

also, sorgster, want a case? why's stringer bell buddying me instead of scumhunting?

[eep]

@taa, don't be talkin like you were suspicious of me first

@sorgster, I have, on multiple occasions. iso me.

also, find me an instance of stringer bell scum hunting.

also, I'll ask a revised question: why is antb more suspicious than any other player?

[eep]

do you mean that that is a scumslip?

[eep]

if he had said, "who are my three scumbuddies," I could see it, but he just asked us to assume.

uprising made the same claim about there being 4 scum in day 1. why is antb more suspicious than her?

[eep]

so it's the fact that he makes very large posts?

[eep]

and antb is more suspicious than any of us?

[eep]

yeah, I got that, I'm just not clear on why yet.

[eep]

well, can't argue with gut, I suppose.

I don't agree with your reasons, but taa is definitely one of the most anti-town players around.

[eep]

stringer bell might still be a better lynch, just saying.

[eep]

the in-thread case on him is weak compared to other players. I would prefer to rely on I'm thread info target than your guess.

stringer bell, who do you think is scum and why have you not been scumhunting today?

[eep]

oh my fucking god swype

I need to stop posting from my phone. pretend that last post makes sense.

[eep]

taa is the best lynch

followed by stringer bell and ss17.

[eep]

hiraki, cool off a bit. I agree that taa is misrepresenting you, and he's been doing that with a lot of players. getting worked up over him isn't going to help anything, and it's almost impossible for me to get a read on angry players.

that being said, I don't see much more of a case from you on sodaspirit/rainman.

@sodaspirit, several cases have been made against stringer bell.

there's also something I suspect was hinted at, but don't quite know if I want to rely on.

also I think most votes in this game hold a lot less weight than you've been suggesting; we're quite far from lynching anyone.

[eep]

You undermine my mastery.

if one post from little old me is all it takes then I wouldn't quite call it mastery :O

[eep]

I don't think undermine means what you think it means.

[eep]

oh okay

cool

anyways let's go back to talking about how taa its the scummiest scum.

[eep]

I can agree that uprising is scummy

but taa is scummier

swype wants me to say he's schubert, though. I should listen.

[eep]

I can agree that uprising is scummy

but taa

is scummier

VOTED FOR ME OMG

swype wants me to say he's schubert, though. I should listen.

dont be so ambiguous eep.

don't be talkin like you voted for me first

[eep]

sodaspirit's scumtells are basically "if so and so doesn't agree with me, so and so must be scum"

this is of course an oversimplification, as it suggests that perfect scumplay can be achieved by always behaving perfectly rationally. it also discounts subjectivity. however, this is not the MOST suspicious thing happening today.

I'm tentatively inclined to believe uprising's claim at the moment, because low key, slightly scummy part is good part for a role and I don't feel like she hinted at role before she became a very likely lynch target. not 100% sure, though; would still consider voting her depending on what happens.

taa is still the best lynch, followed by stringer bell.

[eep]

we just aren't agreeing on anyone today, are we?

who are people's top 3 scumreads?

[eep]

yea but thats like scum hunting infinity to the MAX. i mean scumhunting is good, but you really are very persistent and I just realized it.

this is what was bothering me before.

it's like he's claiming but not quite claiming and I don't quite trust that.

[eep]

you know, I'm actually not sure anymore.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: sodaspirit17

[eep]

why is that?

[eep]

yea but thats like scum hunting infinity to the MAX. i mean scumhunting is good, but you really are very persistent and I just realized it.

this is what was bothering me before.

it's like he's claiming but not quite claiming and I don't quite trust that.

When did I softclaim at all?

it's the fact that you're insisting he's scummier than anybody with a very small case, but not just saying, "hey, I'm a role."

[eep]

how so? he has some number of posts where he votes for stringer bell and then says he doesn't want to explain why. he's also made comments about how we can lynch him if stringer bell flips town.

that suggests a little bit more than just scumhunting to me.

[eep]

eep and Stringer Bell are partners.

wait, were you serious about that?

how do you figure?

[eep]

actually

UNVOTE:
VOTE: steviet92

[eep]

@eep
Pick a side and stick to you, all your voting has me wondering...

you're right, I'm getting overloaded with all the claims/accusations.

I'm gonna back off for a bit and reread the thread.

[eep]

so I'm scum because I can't decide on a lynch? is that what you're saying?

also, I'm a she.

[eep]

hard-defending?

I am not voting everyone to create the illusion of forming reads. back when I had cases against people, I cast far fewer votes. at this point, I'm voting everyone because I honestly don't know who's who or what's what anymore.

[eep]

how would that even work? wouldn't someone with clear scumreads keep their vote more solidly?

[eep]

Eep do you think that I am not a bg?

quite probably. rainman was crazy suspicious and you made a really big deal out of the whole "doctor save me" thing.

[eep]

agreed

UNVOTE:
VOTE: SS17

[eep]

2/2 of scum,

Last one's

probably gonna be between TAA and Daybid as nocase said.

also, just wondering

how do you know there's 3 scum?

[eep]

revised scumreads:
one of redff and sodaspirit17
trekker
stevieT92

[eep]

redff is counterclaiming ss17 and you think his case is bunk but he is town

what?

[eep]

knock out steviet92, insert taa.

[eep]

that was stupid of me lol, i still think the initial case against SS was bad but i cant see why he would claim as town. unless hes bg, which is more likely then him being scum. look we got 1 missing kp on N2 or something so mafia must know there are either medics or vets in this game. they KNOW that there is most likely another bg, so claiming bg would make no sense. doesnt really matter anymore since hes hammered but i still think hes town.

typo

so did anyone else notice this?

why did taa think there was a missing nk before we had any reason to believe that there was more than one killing role?

coupled with his general scuminess, I'm inclined to believe he's a serial killer.

VOTE: theawesomeall

[eep]

edit: more than one role that would regularly submit a kill at night.

[eep]

any idea of whom? or are you just going by the nature of his role?

also, seriously, taa. wasn't it strange that he expected there to be two body guards? and also that he thought there was a "missing kp n2"?

[eep]

are you thinking something like, he guarded me or hiraki again?

It's certainly unlikely that the target was uprising or sorgster.

[eep]

n1 there were 2 kills, im getting so sick and tired of you being terrible.

what does this have to do with there being a missing nk night 2?

Also, general question, is it common for vigilantes to make night kills every night?

i didnt expect 2 bgs, the case against SS17 was incredibly bad and in general just a distraction by you and hiraki from antbB.

except what got him lynched was a counterclaim from redff concerning who was the bodyguard. And you RESPONDED TO THAT.

im a vigi and shot hiraki today because there is no way hes getting lynched with this town and he is obviously scum. if redFF protected him im gonna cry. N2 i killed nunez. N1 i killed parrafin.

So you're saying you're a vig and the mafia hasn't submitted an NK since night 1? or that we have 2 bodyguards AND a doctor? I don't find either of these cases likely.

Hiraki has failed to do anything all game long. hes supposed to be a good player but made the worst case POSSIBLE against SS17. you and hiraki saved antbB by lynching SS17.

redff's case was what got SS17 lynched. NOT anything me OR hiraki did.

[eep]

So, you hit town twice and you're calling everyone else terrible?

how do you know hiraki is town?

[eep]

hiraki is scum and no scum is lynched yet so i consider him a good player, eep is playing terrible even for scummy standards.

also, i'm confused. do you think i'm scum or not? and, regardless, what am i doing that makes my play so terrible?

[eep]

how are we responsible for his death more than any other person who voted for him?

[eep]

oh my god.

i was sitting here wondering what you were talking about, and then i realized that I just totally forgot about nunez.

sorry about that, hurrrg.

[eep]

taa said he targeted nunez n2, so it was a vigkill instead?

I don't know about this. what do other people think?

[eep]

what part of my interactions with TAA?

[eep]

Good, glad to see you gave up.

That's one job done.

Let's get some scumbud pairs going.

One of Uprising, AntB, and eep are scum.

I have my gut on eep due to being complete opposites.

I don't feel AntB or Uprising are scum. So I'll lay that there.

so, just to clarify.

you think that me and taa are on the same nk-less scum team, because we have been cross-accusing one another. is that right?

[eep]

I like how hiraki dropped off your scumlist, taa.

[eep]

so apparently I'm just scum with everyone I interact with? haha, k.

[eep]

i think he's saying that because we know who he is now, we should keep him alive because he can help us kill the mafia since there's no way he's going to win anyways

i don't think i want to trust his judgment, and i don't see how it's actually to town advantage to have a few more kills left to an individual player's decision.

so possibly the mafia tried targetting taa nights 2 and 3? that would make sense i guess. but also, yeah, where is vifam?

[eep]

also, would be nice to hear from csl.

[eep]

vote: vifam

[eep]

it was funny

also, vifam suddenly dropped out of the game and has been apologetic about getting back in.

[eep]

i'm almost certain that one of vifam/antb is scum

i'm just not quite sure which.

[eep]

at this point, I'd rather have more information

[eep]

how do you know there's 4 scum?

[eep]

yesterday you said there were probably three, if we have a serial killer

i'm confused by the turn-around

[eep]

huh, if this is true, then we have a lot of double roles

sorgster, what is the mechanism of your role? were you mod-informed about vifam's alliance?

[eep]

WAIT hiraki confirmed vifam as being gunless. gah, I really need to keep better track of these things.

UNVOTE: vifam

looking at StevieT92, for trying to keep roles/information covered up in a really critical time. VOTE: StevieT92

[eep]

vifam, can you confirm whether you have some sort of confirmation of sorgster's allegiance?

also, i'm curious about what uprising is trying to claim?

[eep]

not every counter-vote is an omgus.

[eep]

no, i was talking about the fact that paraffin was a neighborizer

and also that we have 2 bodyguards

[eep]

oh yeah, i should probably mention that i'm a vt

[eep]

not every counter-vote is an omgus.

ur right - but look at your reason for voting me. You're voting me because I think massclaiming is a bad idea. There's nothing scummy about that in the least. so if you are voting for me for a bullshit reason that is clearly an omgus. now die scum.

@trekker what are your thoughts on eep?

you don't want a massclaim during a possible mylo. why?

[eep]

also trekker do you ever provide cases?

[eep]

oh, and to answer battousai's question, I don't have a really strong case against antb, other than the fact that he hadn't done very much scumhunting and he and vifam have been at each other's throats

[eep]

trekker :/

mkay so i just realized something.

look at steviet92's iso, from ISO 13 to ISO 19:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... elect=1111

He votes for AntB 3 times in a row. The first two times he just says he's jumping on a wagon because he can. Then he posts a case. Then he says he can get behind a sodaspirit wagon, but votes antB again.

Then he sheeps trekker.

Then he jumps on a different wagon.

Next day, he sheeps trekker, then jumps on a bandwagon.

In fact, if we go back to day 2, we see that he points at a bunch of people, especially sorgster, who's kinda an easy target, but then jumps on the bandwagon again.

I have a really good feeling that steviet92 is scum, and possibly because of what happened D3, antb is too.

Would rather lynch steviet92 but might be willing to switch to antb with some persuasion.

[eep]

Do you support an mc tomorrow, then?

[eep]

also, what do you mean, with so many vanilla townies? Do you know how many townies we have, then?

[eep]

people who are opposing mc, are you working under the assumption that today is NOT mylo? and why do you feel safe making this assumption?

[eep]

I don't really give a damn either way about the MC right now. I'm posting little because I have no idea what I should be posting. I think a lot of other people feel the same way.

yeah, i was mostly talking to battousai and steviet92.

regardless, I feel like this game has involved way too many one-liner reasons and not enough serious analysis, which is probably part of the reason why we aren't getting anywhere today. I would really appreciate it if everyone could go through the list of remaining players and post some thoughts on all of them; I will do the same sometime later today or tomorrow.

[eep]

Great. Actually stay done, this time.

[eep]

Here's my rereads:
AntB:

Uprising is screaming scum but IRC meta is null at best on forums.

Also, uprising is town, if she was scum she'd be all over this like a rash.

Didn't notice this before.
AntB, what made you change your mind?

Vifam: confirmed town by dead hiraki and by sorgster.

Uprising:
AntB's been buddying her a bunch; I'm inclined to believe that she's town regardless of his alignment. Also,

I know I'm scummy. I'm often scummy.

I'm so afraid to vote because I really don't want to lose.

Jesus. Rereading the game.

These make me think she's town. Additionally, she posted a total list of her thoughts on living players on day 3; the fact that she's at least paying attention to the game is a plus in my book.

sorgster: is confirmed town by Vifam, although Vifam has technically not commented on how sorgster's aligment was confirmed to him. If sorgster turns out to be scum because Vifam was careless about confirming that, I'm going to be pissed.

StevieT92:

I have town on Vifam, Trekker, Hiraki, and yes, Sorgster.

Right now I have as scum RedFF and AntB. As weak scum TAA, nocase, and eep. AntB has the largest wagon therefore I'm going to

Vote: AntB

IDK who to vote, so I'm gonna wagon AntB.

vote: AntB

You know.

IF FEEL REALLY GOOD WITH THIS REDFF VOTE.

but i can change to stevie.

and only stevie.

redff is town and antb is the smelliest scum right now. why are u not voting antb.

Somebody asked for a case against AntB.

<truncated>

I can get behind a SodaSpirit wagon.

unvote, vote: AntB

@AntB you are right that i misrepresented you on that one point, I read it out of context. As far as the rest of the case goes, I realized while reading it that it was not the strongest, however there is some stuff there that is suspicious.

These contain the first three votes that stevie cast on day 3. Yes, all three of them are on AntB. What?

I can get behind a SodaSpirit wagon.

unvote, vote: AntB

you can get behind a SodaSpirit wagon when it's obvious that

AntB and Soda are not on the same scumteam

?

1. I didn't notice that read. 2.

It doesn't matter, the important thing is that we lynch scum today.

Period. We need to get this game going in the right direction, we'll worry about the implications tomorrow.

Someone, please explain this to me.

Also, if he is so suspicious of AntB and soda is clearly NOT scum, why has Stevie not pressed any case against AntB since then?

battousai:
I don't notice anything exceptional in his posts, but I have a gut impression that he's town.

Stringer Bell:
I ultimately have a null read on him. trekker has been gunning for him based on two posts, from what I can tell, and he hasn't really done anything further to warrant suspicion. I thought trekker might have had special information on him, but he seems to have outright denied that, so I don't really see a case on him.

trekker:
gah I can't believe I forgot about this:

2/2 of scum, Last one's probably gonna be between TAA and Daybid as nocase said.

Is this a scumslip? He seems to imply that he knows that there are three mafia.

If this is the case, then I'm taking a guess that the three scum are trekker, antb, and steviet92. But this also means that we should NOT massclaim, and I apologize for pushing for that before really looking through things.

[eep]

what size games have you been playing?

plenty of people suggested that there were very likely 4 scum total so it is weird to me that you were looking for 3.

[eep]

yeah, it's frustrating when we even have confirmed townies just dodging questions

steviet92 is acting just like taa

I feel like csl has a bit more of an excuse because he did come in as a replacement pretty late game, but I would still like to hear from him asap.

[eep]

also, vifam, is there anyone else you think is notably scummy?

[eep]

@mod, I will be v/la until Tuesday.

[eep]

Awesome, I'm scum with steviet purely because that guy appears to want to failepicbus me... and I'm "glad" to see sorgster is still VI.

you're probably the weakest of my scumreads; first is stevie, then trekker.

why do you think stringer is scum?

[eep]

this is going nowhere....

anyone have any other ideas? or are we just going to sit around until the day ends?

[eep]

sorgster, switch your vote to stevie

[eep]

csl do you have any reads on people?

[eep]

this is an awful lot of cop-type roles.

[eep]

I'm not sure that this would make up for having at least 4 information roles, plus sorgster's "confirm a townie" thing with his mason ability.

trekker's claim is a pretty big contrast with all the other information roles. Hiraki, Uprising, and Battousai, assuming the latter two are telling the truth, have roles that give ambiguous or risky information. I have a hard time believing we'd have three of those plus an outright rolecop.

Also, we had BODYGUARDS rather than DOCTORS and MASONIZERS rather than just MASONS. A theme in this game seems to be roles that do things indirectly, and rolecop just doesn't fit with this trend. It's also an easy role to fake when you aren't listing your views until after massclaim is finished.

There's also the more personal note that trekker has been suspicious of me since day 3 and hasn't stopped gunning for me. But this doesn't mean anything to the rest of you unless someone else has something to confirm me. Once roleclaim is finished, I would like trekker to be one of the first to list his views.

[eep]

I already claimed vt

[eep]

I think I would like Uprising to give us her results next.

@battousai, you're probably right that at least one scum claimed vt, but i feel like there's some kinda weird stuff going on with our power roles? Possibly we are more likely to find a scum in them.

That being said, if we only have 3 scum we still have some time and I feel like it will be easier to tell which PR claims are lies than which VT claims so it might be worthwhile to try to figure that out today.

I don't like how stevie just suddenly switched on trekker after I commented on the roleclaim being weird, I kinda feel like he's trying to distance himself or something?

[eep]

Considering current claims, JoaT seems too weird to be conceivable....

wait for the rest of the claims... and 5 days means this looks like a quicklynch is going to happen :Z

do you think JoaT is weirder than rolecop?

[eep]

A little bit more about my role, I was told that I wouldn't die if I hid behind scum. I took this plus the 1-shot neighborizer to mean that my role's intended purpose was to either give town an extra neighbor or to give town an extra investigation (if I hid behind a cop target).

wait, I'm confused.

Why did you even use your role if it didn't give you investigative information?

also, mastin, you skipped uprising having a watcher role. and I'm REALLY not clear on why you think anyone's scum, or why you voted for me when you think trekker and stringer bell are more definite?

whoops, ninja'd: It's true, I'm not a very decisive player. and I can't confirm this, but that's honestly just the way I play VT.

[eep]

A little bit more about my role, I was told that I wouldn't die if I hid behind scum. I took this plus the 1-shot neighborizer to mean that my role's intended purpose was to either give town an extra neighbor or to give town an extra investigation (if I hid behind a cop target).

wait, I'm confused.

Why did you even use your role if it didn't give you investigative information?

never mind, i'm dumb, i get it now.

Hypocritical. Highly hypocritical, in fact.

haha, fair enough. it's something I've been kinda on the fence about trying to beat/thinking it's fine so I sometimes get oversensitive about other people doing it.

but, to buckle down a bit, here is what I think:

at least one of battousai and uprising MUST be scum.
one or both of trekker/stringer bell are PROBABLY scum.

Frustrating that battousai was a recent replace-in, but he's generally struck me as town. I thought uprising was scummy until she got put under pressure, but maybe she's just good at getting out of pressure.

fuck this, I still don't know what to think. I'll look through things tomorrow.

[eep]

uprising, can you show us some evidence of your breadcrumbing before day 3?