Mafia 125: Khan's Game of Mafia (Game Over)

[Kmd4390]

Wow, all these pages already? Uhh I'll try to get around to it tonight, but my only real chance is probably 3 or 4 in the morning and I don't really have any opportunities after tonight to sleep for a few days. Working 14 hours tomorrow up through midnight, then gotta leave at 5 am the next morning to go out of state for a few days.

[Kmd4390]

I'm back from my trip to Rhode Island now. I'll catch up on this game one late night. Tomorrow... may actually work.

[Kmd4390]

Ketchup time.

----------------

I don't like nocase's first post. Stating the post restriction, but no vote or anything. Just focusing on his own role. Cyber's first reaction is probably null, but first instinct gives me bad vibes. However, the vote coming after Antihero's catch and Spy's vote worries me. Antihero's reaction makes sense as town realizing that post restrictions shouldn't exist. Spy is probably scum for laying a vote. I think townSpy would sit back and think, "wait a minute. What is this guy doing?" before just laying the vote. The possibility that I'm wrong is if Spy is voting for reactions/pressure. Slight town read on Korlash's reaction. Sera makes good points on CKD.

Nocase's next few posts kind of frustrate/annoy me. Still, Spy's attacks are pretty scummy. If DGB and Spy are both scum, we might be screwed. I disagree with most of Inhim's take on the early game. Not sure if that means Inhim is scum or if we just have differing views. Based on Post 39 by nocase, I think he made up his "restriction" and is amused because Inhim chose to follow suit. I wanna say town on nocase and scum on Inhim. I don't get Antihero's jump on Korlash at all. Korlash's reaction isn't any better though.

Dutch is definitely town.

-------------------

Gorrad - 5 - nocase, inHimshallibe, Gorrad, SpyreX, Dutch one

Gorrad is town.

-----------------

Chevre gives off "over explaining" vibes. Scummy. I hope Iam started explaining things more after page 3. When you give back to back posts about someone being scummy without saying anything about it, you start looking bad. CKD's post directed at Dutch at the top of Page 4 looks like a fluffy post with sprinkles in the shape of newbframing. Antihero started out so great, but is sliding downhill. I take back the bad vibe thing about Cyberbob because of post 96. Xalxe, however, looks worse with every post. DGB's response to Dutch's points looks like the ScumDGB we all know and love. All we need is for her to start OMGUSing her accusers and give away her buddies. (lol, she OMGUS'd Chevre a little later). Runner is town.

Dutch, I have to ask. Why was the Gorrad vote "out of date"? Did you no longer believe in your reasons for voting him? What convinced you of his innocence?

-------------------

Interesting because it goes against my reads, but Inhim's Post 123 shows a strong Cyber-Sera connection, which would make Korlash and Inhim town. Dunno what to think of Jerbs. He looks newbish, but his join date says otherwise. I just realized that DGB's play is pretty much mirroring Sly Cooper Mafia, where she replaced in as a scumbuddy of mine. Chevre is scummy too, so bussing maybe? Kats is under-the-radar-sheep-scum.

--------------------

Damn, not even 4am and I'm starting to fall asleep. I think it's the fact that I know I have a night shift followed by a morning coming up this weekend, then have to be up before 5am the next day for my New Jersey trip. Oh well. Here's my take on the first 7 pages. More as soon as possible. I see the most recent vote count and definitely would prefer to lynch Chevre over Gorrad.

That being said, you guys are lucky I'm here because I don't think DGBscum and Spyscum would be lynched otherwise.

Vote DGB

[Kmd4390]

Ok, I just got home and have a little while before I have to get ready for work. Rather than sleeping, I'm going to spend that time on mafiascum. Not sure what kind of access I'll have at the hotel Monday night (probably none), so I'd like to be caught up before then.

---------------------

Where was I. Page 8. Yes. Sera's and Antihero's "pooflinging" thing has no good points either way. Neither player looks scummy in that exchange. The first thing to catch my interest in tonight's read is something that was said by Chevre. She claims that anything out of the ordinary is scummy. As wrong as that is, the mere assumption is the least of my worries in that statement. I'm more concerned with the fact that Chevre has that belief, yet went out of her way to keep an open mind with Nocase. Lemme get the quotes, because I feel like this could turn into "No, prove that that was said" and I won't be able to find it again:

I have no idea how many games I played here, but I can't say I've kept track of how what they did at the beginning of the game relates to their faction. I don't know if that's a common practice or not, but I do not do it. However,

I do know that anything that seems out-of-the-ordinary or not seeming to benefit the town is scummy

.

I've tried to think of how nocase's lie could be helpful, but I cannot.

If you can recommend such a way that it could assist the town, then please do share. With your previous statement, you are bordering along the lines of "The scumtells at the start of games are measurably less valuable than those later on in the game." I surely hope that is not what you're intending, nor do I think you are.

(Bold shows Chevre's belief about out of the ordinary meaning scummy, italics along with previous posts shows open mindedness about nocase)

-----------------------

Farside, you mention that you've never seen scum do anything moronic or crazy Day 1 and get lynched. What about Xtoxm in a game YOU MODDED? For those not familiar with Futurama Mafia, Porochaz joke voted Xtoxm and called him out as SK. Xtoxm, who actually was SK, said that Prozac must have been a Scum Daytime Rolecop, claimed SK, and vowed to act as a town vig. Xtoxm was lynched as SK Day 1.

--------------------

I don't like Spy overblowing Gorrad's "Gorradscum can hang later" thing. Sure, Spy doesn't call obvscum and ask for a lynch. But the way he draws attention to it and even directs it at a player who might make something of it (DGB) is pretty bad. However, for this to be a tell against Spy, DGB would probably have to be town. But this game fits DGB's scum meta better than Cinderella's slipper fits on her foot. What a pickle we've got here.

------------------

RedCoyote is town. Hmm. Scum team may be/include DGB/Spy/Iam/CKD. If it is, we have some serious veteran players to worry about here. Nothing specific caught my attention to realize this. I was just thinking about it while reading and figured I'd say something. 205 by Jerbs catches my attention. He comes in to say he's posting one thing "from memory" and then that he'll be back later. Looks like he skimmed quickly, not planning to post, but felt a strong urge to say the one thing to Dutch. I'm trying to determine what this means. Either way, Jerbs and Dutch are definitely not scum together because Jerbs REALLY wanted Dutch to see that post. 208 by Iam is definitely reassuring.

cyber:post 51 welcome to my scum list. Really Gorrad votes himself and your confused? Seriously?

Why not call Spy on this? Also, in the same post, why build up all those points on Cyber, hardly mention Sera, then vote Sera?
Hmm...

-----------------

Cyberbob is town (211/212). Damn, forgot Inhim when I made my possible vetscum list above. I've got my eye on werewolf after the post where he says not scumhunting much is ok as long as you don't use too many one liners or whatever he said. Then the Sera vote after that is pretty bad (also a one liner lol).

-----------------

My mind stopped working. I'm through Page 11. Gotta get in the shower in 20 minutes anyway, so I guess that was semi-productive......

[Kmd4390]

I'm trying to block together some time to do this. Expect it some time during the week.

[Kmd4390]

Gorrad

- 8 - iamausername, Cyberbob, DrippingGoofball, SpyreX, Antihero, inHimshallibe, yabbaguy, nocase

werewolf555

- 6 - Chevre,

farside22

, RedCoyote, Dutch one, Korlash, curiouskarmadog

Chevre

- 2 - Seraphim,

Xalxe

nocase

- 2 -

Gorrad, werewolf555

DrippingGoofball

- 1 - Kmd4390

RedCoyote

- 1 - Weatherman

Players not voting:

PokerFace, curiouskarmadog

[iamausername, Cyberbob, DrippingGoofball, SpyreX, Antihero, inHimshallibe, yabbaguy, nocase] contains 8 living players and a scum gold mine
[Chevre, RedCoyote, Dutch one, Korlash, curiouskarmadog] probably has a scum or two in it too.

This is weird knowing Day 2 that we had competing wagons on town.

Vote DGB

to continue where I left off Day 1.

Also, I think the Gorrad wagon is the best place to look.

[Kmd4390]

Also

Dutch one - 5 - curiouskarmadog, PokerFace, SpyreX, yabbaguy, RedCoyote

This wagon sucks.

[Kmd4390]

I wouldn't mind lynching Spy at all.

Actually

Unvote, Vote Spy

[Kmd4390]

Personally I think Werewolf would be a better place to start. The Gorrad wagon almost definitely has scum on it but I would be willing to bet the werewolf one had more, or at least a higher percentage. Then again I'm wrong half the time and incorrect the other third.

You were on the Werewolf wagon. Taking that into consideration, why do you think a higher percentage of scum were on that wagon than the Gorrad one, which went to a lynch?

[Kmd4390]

Yabba, I said Dutch was obvtown yesterday.

---------------

Korlash, I believe that a Day 1 mislynch almost always contains multiple scums. Also, Gorrad was obvtown. Werewolf, not so much.

[Kmd4390]

The case on Antihero seems to be a summary of his posting style. Spy is a much better lynch.

[Kmd4390]

Yabba, show me the difference. Show me some Antihero town games where he posts differently and show me how it's different.

[Kmd4390]

Why can't everyone see that this is scum DGB we are dealing with?

[Kmd4390]

There is nothing awesome about someone who will kill you in your sleep.

[Kmd4390]

Xtoxm, why the claim?

[Kmd4390]

And Antihero, does Xtoxm's hider claim affect your info at all? If you still think he's lying, come out with the info.

[Kmd4390]

Are we still waiting for Xtoxm?

[Kmd4390]

Dgb, I told you already. It's you and spy and some combination of the other names I mentioned. It will all be more clear when you and spy flip scum.

[Kmd4390]

why would xtoxm-scum come out with a pr claim so quickly, which relatively few townies really chomping at his heels?

why would xtoxm-town come out with a pr claim so quickly, which relatively few townies really chomping at his heels?

[Kmd4390]

Unvote, Vote Inhim

[Kmd4390]

Tell me, Inhim. If we lynch Xtoxm and he flips town, would you want to lynch Antihero next? What about Yabba?

If Inhim is scum, Xtoxm is town. Antihero probably is too. Maybe Yabba.

[Kmd4390]

I dunno though. Yabba is riding the confirmed town thing a little too much.

[Kmd4390]

His attitude towards Xtoxm.

[Kmd4390]

Yabba, I'm mostly waiting to hear from both sides before I decide anything.

[Kmd4390]

Chevre, just because I voted Inhim doesn't mean I suddenly think DGB is town. She is still obvscum and so is Spy.

[Kmd4390]

unvote, vote spy

[Kmd4390]

I'd prefer a Chevre lynch to a Dutch one although it would be far from my first choice.

[Kmd4390]

unvote, vote chevre

[Kmd4390]

Chevre, you should claim to hurry this up.

[Kmd4390]

No hammer on Chevre yet?

[Kmd4390]

Vote Spy

[Kmd4390]

Scums rarely approach their buddies the same way. It's like I said from the very beginning. Spy and DGB are both scum.

[Kmd4390]

Some thoughts:

[iamausername, Cyberbob, DrippingGoofball, SpyreX, Antihero, inHimshallibe, yabbaguy, nocase] contains 8 living players and a scum gold mine
[Chevre, RedCoyote, Dutch one, Korlash, curiouskarmadog] probably has a scum or two in it too.

Chevre

- 9 - iamausername, yabbaguy, inHimshallibe, nocase, Kmd4390, cyberbob, Dutch one, Pokerface, RedCoyote

Dutch one

- 3 - Chevre, SpyreX, Korlash

SpyreX

- 1 - Weatherman

Cyberbob

- 1 - curiouskarmadog

Kmd4390

- 1 - DrippingGoofball

Players not voting:

Xtoxm, Antihero

[iamausername, yabbaguy, inHimshallibe, nocase, Kmd4390, cyberbob, Dutch one, Pokerface, RedCoyote] should be scum central.

Keeping [iamausername, Cyberbob, DrippingGoofball, SpyreX, Antihero, inHimshallibe, yabbaguy, nocase] in mind...

[Yabba, InHim, nocase, Cyberbob] appear in both lists.
[Kmd, Dutch, Poker, RedCoyote] voted only Chevre.
[Iam, DGB, Spy, Antihero] voted only Gorrad.
That means [Korlash, Weather] voted none.

------------------

CKD showed up as just "mafia", so I doubt we have multiple scum groups. Three dead players N1 means we have a protown vig and with the dead SK, Xtoxm died as a result of HIS ROLE.

[Kmd4390]

Also just noticed that Korlash was on both wagons that competed the most with the lynch (werewolf, Dutch). Scummy.

[Kmd4390]

Townly

Yabbaguy

<targeted him night one

Korlash

<likly target for night 2?

Kmd
Dutch one
Weatherman
iam
CKD
inHim

Neutral

RedCoyote
Cyberbob
Chevre
PokerFace
nocase
Antihero

Scummy

Spyrex
DGB

The order in the town list is relevant. The order in the other lists is not

.

DGB I replaced in on Night 1 and had to make a choice based on only very limited reading,

so I went for someone who I had a town lean on who I thought would not be NKed

.

I do think a hider finding out innocents is much much better play than trying to get killed on scum.
That being said, if he went for scum, it was SpyreX. Last post of his:

While I don't object particularly to an inHim lynch, Spyrex would be my personal perference.

This crumb or no crumb? It looks to me like the only possible crumb except if he used his list from iso 1

Cyber 25 + 50 + 15 + 25 + 25 + 5 = 145
PF 25 + 50 + 25 = 100
InHim 25 + 15 + 25 + 25 = 90

yabba 25 + 15 + 25 = 65
Anti 25 + 15 + 25 = 65
username 15 + 25 + 25 = 65
Spy 15 + 25 + 25 = 65
Dutch one 25 + 25 + 5 = 55
RC 25 + 25 = 50

KMD 25
Weather 25

Inhim is now obvscum.

-----------------

Also, DGB, why only 15 points on the Gorrad lynch?

[Kmd4390]

Unvote, Vote Inhim

[Kmd4390]

Unvote, Vote DGB

[Kmd4390]

Guys, DGB accuses her accusers as scum. Always. It gets worse when she is closer to being lynched.

[Kmd4390]

Yeah, well I'm not the one complaining about how people won't sheep me onto a crappy wagon, scum.

KMD is scum, so that makes it a good wagon.

You spelled "DGB is scum, so that makes it a good wagon." wrong.

[Kmd4390]

Yabba, my list should be obvious:
DGB
Spy
Inhim

I don't know what more I can do to push those cases. At this point, it seems that people either support them or they don't. Xtoxm obviously hid behind Inhim. DGB is just duplicating her scum meta. And Spy is just downright scummy.

[Kmd4390]

What's different is lack of interest.

If you don't buy the crumb as being a crumb, you won't think inhim was targeted.

[Kmd4390]

Wait, that's the crumb? Since when?

[Kmd4390]

You guys are really going to make me spell this out.

-Xtoxm gave a town/scum list. He said ONLY TOWN order was relevant. Inhim was at the VERY BOTTOM in towniness.
-Xtoxm said he went after someone who he thought was town and wouldn't be NKd. Inhim was at the BOTTOM of his town list.
-Xtoxm later shows some support for an Inhim lynch, someone who was just on his TOWN list.

[Kmd4390]

Hint: the town list and next quote in my post are the crumbs.

[Kmd4390]

Inhim was only on the town list as a crumb. Xtoxm didn't think inhim was town. Someone check Xtoxm's ISO and see what his read on Inhim was BEFORE all of this. I don't know if I have time to do it myself, but I bet he called him scum before the list.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, Xtoxm only had one post before his list. Can't show anything there. Still, I don't think he really read Inhim as town.

[Kmd4390]

So everyone pretty much thinks Xtoxm thought inhim was town but wanted him lynched anyway. And everyone forgets that inhim is actually scummy. Ok. Whatever.

[Kmd4390]

Unvote, Vote Spy

Let's just string him up and end this day. I'm bored and he's scum.

[Kmd4390]

Guys, let's just lynch Spy.

[Kmd4390]

Iam, id be fine with that. Spy has more votes right now though.

[Kmd4390]

Ok.

Unvote, Vote Inhim

[Kmd4390]

Meh, he

could

be scum, but I'd lynch you, DGB, or Inhim before Red.

[Kmd4390]

How about his scuminess while Xtoxm was still alive?

[Kmd4390]

-The way he followed Nocases post restriction thing
-his under-the-radar, but not quite lurking kind of play
-his reaction to Xtoxm's claim (OMG HES LYING LYCHLYNCHLYNCH)
-the fact that I still think Xtoxm targeted him (if not him, then you)

[Kmd4390]

Oh, and if someone did a real VCA TM, it would look bad on Inhim.

[Kmd4390]

Oh, and if someone did a real VCA TM, it would look bad on Inhim.

Actually, DGB did that point thing.

Cyber 25 + 50 + 15 + 25 + 25 + 5 = 145
PF 25 + 50 + 25 = 100
InHim 25 + 15 + 25 + 25 = 90

yabba 25 + 15 + 25 = 65
Anti 25 + 15 + 25 = 65
username 15 + 25 + 25 = 65
Spy 15 + 25 + 25 = 65
Dutch one 25 + 25 + 5 = 55
RC 25 + 25 = 50

KMD 25
Weather 25

[Kmd4390]

#3 was after Xtoxm sounded like he was claiming cop, then while we were waiting for clarification, then after he clarified.

Looking through Inhim's ISO, I remembered his reaction to my vote (oh, vote, cool) on him and his "people I'd lynch" that was half the game.

[Kmd4390]

Xtoxm would have been a terrible lynch. I'd say this even if we didn't already know his alignment. In that situation, it would have been best to let it play out.

And Dutch is obvtown.

[Kmd4390]

/inb4 "OMG WE CANT LYNCH INHIM CUZ REPLACEMENT"

[Kmd4390]

While we are saying our favorite lynches:
Inhim
Spy
DGB

[Kmd4390]

Vote Spy

[Kmd4390]

Actually, DGB has a point. One of DGB/red is scum for sure. It's been a long time since I've been more sure of anything non-role-based in a mafia game.

unvote, vote redcoyote

Gotta say dgb isn't likely to bring that up if she's the scum. If she is, we'll find out when red flips town.

[Kmd4390]

"if" is at the beginning of the sentence.

If you are scum, Red WILL flip town, therefore, we WILL find out.

I don't think the two of you are buddies.

I do think one of you is scum.

[Kmd4390]

Cool.

[Kmd4390]

Problem?

[Kmd4390]

Iam:

Also, yabbaguy wanted you dead, and he died for it so....

DGB is either:
A) right
B) wrong
C) lying

The only thing that supports EITHER a dgb lynch or non-red lynch is if you think dgb is wrong or lying. I don't think she'd be dumb enough as scum to try to use a NK to frame somebody. I also respect her town game enough that if she is town, I trust the red vote.

Basically, it comes down to dgb being a good player. I like the point she made. I'm willing to follow for now, but if red flips town, it's back to taking down dgbscum and spyscum.

[Kmd4390]

You missed the part where I don't think she'd be dumb enough to try framing someone with a NK as scum.

[Kmd4390]

Fine, fine...

Unvote, Vote Spy

[Kmd4390]

RedCoyote

- 3 - DrippingGoofball, Cyberbob, SpyreX

Cyberbob

- 1 - RedCoyote

Kmd4390

- 1 - iamausername

iamausername

- 1 - Korlash

SpyreX

- 1 - Kmd4390

Players not voting:

Antihero, PokerFace, Ojanen

Just realized that DGB/Cyber/Spy make up the RedCoyote wagon. I won't be getting back on it.

[Kmd4390]

lol nice try.

nice try at what are you high

Well you just dropped a heavy implication that DGB, KMD and Korlash are all scum together, while you are voting for none of them.

MUD
SLINGING

And now YOU are implying that Cyberbob is scum with DGB/Kmd/Korlash as town (Unless he's mudslinging at buddies), yet you were just voting me.

[Kmd4390]

So how is Cyberbob "slinging mud" at DGB, Korlash, and myself without voting any of us any worse than you attacking him under the assumption that I am town when your vote was on me maybe a page or two ago.

[Kmd4390]

See, but that's just how DGB plays. As town, she just calls everyone scum until she figures out who she really wants to lynch. As scum, she tries to duplicate this play.

[Kmd4390]

Alcohol is truth serom....

[Kmd4390]

Prodding Ojanen & Kmd4390

Hi.

[Kmd4390]

I think it's a null tell simply because we don't know what the scum have or have not discussed.

[Kmd4390]

Fonz, when I'm scum and my buddies talk about who to lynch, I mostly ignore it. You can't really plan who is going to play scummy. I don't want to turn this into an MD debate, but that's why I see it as null. I don't know if the scum take your position or mine, therefore I won't make conclusions based on it. It's debatable, which is my point. It doesn't matter if my take is right or if yours is. What matters is that not everyone agrees.

[Kmd4390]

I dunno what to do. It looks like we are lynching either Cyberbob or RedCoyote. I have a sort of town read on Cyberbob and I didn't like the names on the RedCoyote wagon when it caught steam.

Meh.

Unvote, Vote Nacho/DGB

Maybe we can get this going.

[Kmd4390]

There is way too much apathy in this game...

[Kmd4390]

Yeah fate is so far off it's not even funny.

To respond to specific points:
-I couldn't keep up in the beginning
-I had a town read on gorrad

[Kmd4390]

when I have scummy scumbuddies, I have no problem bussing. This is completely irrelevant for this game, however.

[Kmd4390]

It was more DGB and Spy on the wagon that I didn't like. And I doubt the three of them as scum together would all be alone on the wagon like that.

[Kmd4390]

Also, building a case on a low Day 1 post count makes no sense because:
A) my sitewide post count was just as low
B) you will NOT find a game in my entire mafia career where I thought "hey, lurking here is a GREAT strategy". There is just no reason to ever do it intentionally. Any time I ever have has been a lack of time and/or interest.

[Kmd4390]

I agree with fate on this one. What town player needs info just BEFORE they read?

[Kmd4390]

Iam, in that game she asked WHERE to start reading. Here, she asked WHAT SHE SHOULD KNOW BEFORE (annoying not having a caps lock button) she reads. Try telling me you don't see a difference. Her next post is fair if it's true though. I don't have time (or care enough) to check.

Red, I don't get your analogy. And I've always gotten pissed at people who accuse me of lurking intentionally. Like since I first started playing this dumb game.

[Kmd4390]

Oh, wow. Talk about trying to slide through on a technicality.

How is that a technicality? One is like "Hey guys, is there anything important early on or should I skip that and start somewhere else?" and the other is like "Hey guys, is there stuff I need to know?". The second one, you should always be able to find on your read. If you don't see the difference, you shouldn't be playing this game.

It has nothing to do with you personally. I'm talking about this hypothetical scumchat. If you're going to tell me with a straight face that it's null for a player to mistakenly bring up a player that was lynched simply because we can't be certain if the scum talked about their night kill... I'm sorry, but that's dumb. That's a dumb point. Lurking or not, there's going to be some minimum level of discussion. I mean, look at the players in this game. You're going to tell me that Fonz, DGB, or Spyrex (just random names, not my suspects necessarily) aren't going to talk about their nightkill? Come off it, man.

0_o

Uh.

Inhim was LYNCHED, not NKD.

The difference is that one happens during the day and is agreed upon by a majority of players who can be either alignment and the other is agreed upon at night by scum. Guess which one a lynch is.

Seriously, have you played mafia before?

----------------

Nacho, I didn't say I had a town read on DGB. Lately, I'm more willing to accept that reads are wrong more often than not. That kind of openness comes into play when a scum read makes a good point. When her point is more reliable than my read, guess which I'm going to follow. And so what? I was wrong about Inhim/Xtoxm.

[Kmd4390]

Iam, it really wasn't very many games ago for me although I don't really remember starbuck being in it. But that's beside the point. If it's scummy now, it'd be scummy then. However, it was entirely different. Either way, as I already said, none of it matters if starbuck always asks for more info before reading when replacing in.

--------

Red, I completely disagree, but it really isn't important.

--------

Korlash, I'd lynch fate before iam.

[Kmd4390]

Can't say I'm too upset. After the lynch goes through, I'm no longer alive in any mafia games. It's a good feeling.