Mafia 123 - Outdoorsmen Mafia 2 GAME OVER

[bvoigt]

Hi, everyone! I've kind of been following this game, but I'll read the thread more carefully when I get a chance.

[bvoigt]

OK, several people have only posted a few times, but here are my reads at this point.

Town

bvoigt
nhammen- seems to be looking for information and making logical decisions.
Empking- His vote for Nacho looks like something a townie would say.
iamausername- see above, except because of his defense of Guderian. I disagree, though, as I'd expect scum to carefully read the sample role PM.
Calcifer- they're making a lot of sense to me.
DemonHybrid- This one's hard to explain, but he's not staying in the background as scum would.

Not Sure

Parama
chkflip
don_johnson
RossWilliam- I'd like him to explain his DH vote, please.
ender241
Untrod Tripod

Scum

werewolf555- only a few posts, and all he's really done is parrot other's ideas. I haven't seen any scumhunting from him.
tylerjarvis- I don't like his HoS on Demon. Why do a "jumpy nature and snap judgments" (ISO #5) make someone scum?
evilpacman18- OK, I have nothing really to add to the case on him, but I agree with Calcifer's argument that he's been defensive.
Guderian- Yeah, he overreacted to DH's statement about the possible scumteam. Guderian is always aggressive, but it feels like he's focusing on defending himself rather than aggressively scumhunting.

VOTE: Guderian

[bvoigt]

bvoigt

, I see you haven't changed a bit. Still putting yourself at the very top of your towny list. Aside from the fact that you know your alignment, what (that you've done) would implicate you into such a position?

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that the people under each heading are in no particular order.

VOTE: Empking

- his hunting, so far, seems fake. Also, if you're into meta, this is exactly how he played the above-linked scum game.

What seems fake about it?

[bvoigt]

You can add DGB into the town column, though.

QFT.

[bvoigt]

Yeah, werewolf logged in yesterday, and he's been posting in other places. Let's see where this goes.

UNVOTE: Guderian
VOTE: werewolf333

[bvoigt]

Werewolf, you don't exactly seem like you're doing your best to scumhunt. It looks like you're mostly just concerned with keeping yourself alive.

[bvoigt]

I will support an nhammen lynch tomorrow.

[bvoigt]

Isn't it also modkillable to out one's scumbuddies?

[bvoigt]

VOTE: tylerjarvis

His HoS on DH seemed weird...I don't see how a "jumpy nature and snap judgments" make someone more likely to be scum. And that's basically all the content he's contributed for the entire game.

[bvoigt]

Also saw this post from ender (DGB's predecessor), when evilpacman was being run up early on:

I'm really disliking the fact that after a couple pages with little not many people posting people are making decisions on who's scum and town already. I haven't played any games except from newbie games on this site but you can't automatically decide who's scum and who isn't...

makes me think Calcifer may well be onto something.

This is a good point. It looks like he might have been trying to subtly discourage a wagon on his buddy. I'm happy with my Tyler vote, though.

[bvoigt]

Emkping you've been on Nacho since the beginning and Calc since they came in but haven't really given any reasons besides not originally being aware that there was two scum teams. Care to say anything else?

Are you planning to say anything else?

[bvoigt]

Interesting. So you both say that Calcifer may be right about pacman, but then go and vote an active lurker. How many scum are in this game again?

More than 2.

Exactly. But why is iamausername not guilty of this, while bvoigt is?

They both are, but it's who they vote for which is important. Iam votes for UT, which is a valid vote.
bv votes for a relatively-new player who is a little on the lurkerish side.

Which of those looks worse?

UT has lurked more than Tyler.

[bvoigt]

UNVOTE: tylerjarvis
VOTE: evilpacman18

[bvoigt]

They both are, but it's who they vote for which is important. Iam votes for UT, which is a valid vote.
bv votes for a relatively-new player who is a little on the lurkerish side.

Which of those looks worse?

UT has lurked more than Tyler.

And that makes him a

less

valid vote?

Nah, I was just pointing out that Calcifer's point wasn't really true.

Also, I have a townread on Parama.

[bvoigt]

bvoigt now takes to following others. If bvoigt knew werewolf was active and posting elsewhere, it seems weird it would only occur to him to bring it up after werewolf gained a couple of votes. bvoigt now my biggest scum read.

Nah, I didn't know that Werewolf had been active elsewhere until checking his posts after iam's vote.

In other news, I think that most of the scum are lurking. This game needs a wagon or something.

[bvoigt]

bvoigt now takes to following others. If bvoigt knew werewolf was active and posting elsewhere, it seems weird it would only occur to him to bring it up after werewolf gained a couple of votes. bvoigt now my biggest scum read.

Nah, I didn't know that Werewolf had been active elsewhere until checking his posts after iam's vote.

In other news, I think that most of the scum are lurking. This game needs a wagon or something.

Can I presume from your last comment that you're voting DH?

DH's hammer did seem fairly scummy, but I'm voting EPM.

[bvoigt]

Why not?

UNVOTE: evilpacman13
VOTE: DemonHybrid

[bvoigt]

@DH: Even if Guderian was SK, he didn't have any buddies to defend, and he was still probably trying to scumhunt and gain town cred. So I'm asking you to tell us your logic, please, assuming Guderian was town.

[bvoigt]

UNVOTE: DemonHybrid
VOTE: evilpacman13

I'm more convinced that EPM is scum, and I think my previous vote has served its purpose.

[bvoigt]

SensFan

tylerjarvis

don_johnson

4computer

SharkFinn

Untrod Tripod

Unless all 3 Eastern Mafia were on the werewolf wagon, one of these guys is the final Eastern Mafia.

Tyler's ISO has almost no scumhunting. And look at the similarities between post #55 and post #58:

I'm really disliking the fact that after a couple pages with little not many people posting people are making decisions on who's scum and town already. I haven't played any games except from newbie games on this site but you can't automatically decide who's scum and who isn't...

Wow you guys made some quick judgments. Sorry I'm just now getting started, I thought this game wasn't supposed to start until today.

With their buddy getting in trouble immediately, perhaps both the newbie scum tried to stop the immediate judgements? I know, it's not a very convincing case, but...just ISO Tyler and see if you get the same feeling of newbie scum.

VOTE: SensFan

[bvoigt]

I will support an nhammen lynch tomorrow.

UNVOTE: DemonHybrid
VOTE: evilpacman13

I'm more convinced that EPM is scum, and I think my previous vote has served its purpose.

bvoigt: Your votes on evilpacman13 when he was lynched had no reasoning to it, aside from bandwagoning. What exactly made evilpacman scummy and why did you make the first post about nhammen, yet completely abandon it both days.

The first post was made during twilight D1, when werewolf had claimed scum. And yeah, I know my EPM vote was sheeping. The main actual reasons were his excuses for active lurking and link to Ender (iamausername's ISO #11).

[bvoigt]

I really see no reason for Emp to fakeclaim, so I believe him.

Parama is at L-1, right?

[bvoigt]

Yeah, you're right. In that case:

VOTE: Parama

Now he's at L-1.

[bvoigt]

VOTE: Calcifer

You played well, though.

I'm starting to think that Shark is the final scum, BTW. His hammers the past two days read as someone over-eager to gain town cred.

[bvoigt]

At this point, I would guess that the last scum is a godfather. It's the only reason I can think of for keeping Emp alive. It also makes sense in the setup (one team has someone with NK immunity, the other team has someone with investigation immunity).

(Ninja'ed.)

[bvoigt]

Hmm...who is the last scum? Despite the innocent on SharkFinn, I'm going with the theory that there is a godfather, and he'd be my most likely choice for scum. But, I should probably do some rereading.

[bvoigt]

Im VT as well.

I was about to call Don out on not being mason (seeing a lack of connection between him and chk/DRK), but I am mistaken. Don is mason imo.

Im going to call out on iam as

first of the remaining two scum

for the reason that:
1. He's acted scummy most of the game, playing anti-main stream and opportunistically jumping on werewolf555.
2. His last "content post" before he went VLA consisted of calling WIFOM out on Don. Calling WIFOM is scummy imo.

Though, I will not vote him until he returns, hopefully with content.

Why do you say there are two scum remaining?

[bvoigt]

I'm a Town Townie (vanilla).

I don't think scum would make that mistake.

True...Shark's mistake probably is a towntell. So, is it DH or iam?

[bvoigt]

VOTE: DemonHybrid

I'm not sure how to explain it, but I'd prefer this lynch over iamausername. DH, did you ever explain why you needed to know Guderian's role at the beginning of D2?

[bvoigt]

Good game, everyone. I was still leaning DH as scum in the final day, but I'm surprised you guys lynched Shark. He was pretty clear town to me. Also, I had to laugh when I got voted in 5 straight posts. Especially with this:

Post #637: Final nail in the coffin. bvoigt playing the long game because he knows he needs to get two mislynches to win, so he's looking to keep me around for tomorrow.

So the town move would have been to quickhammer?

[bvoigt]

Thanks for taking over, Haylen!

[bvoigt]

Here's the dead QT.

[bvoigt]

Calcifer was obvtown. Just sayin'.