Mafia 125: Khan's Game of Mafia (Game Over)

[Weatherman]

Damnit weatherman [... ...]

The zebra salutes you as she sings Stars and Stripes forever.

Also, I thought I would try a skimmy gutty pleasurable replacement read approach but it's not working, the fuzzy conception of what's happened is agonizing. I need a day.

DGB and inHim are piercingly town, though.

[Weatherman]

Grrrrr. I have been more procrastination inclined than I should have. I thought I nice alt would ease me up for gutsy play, instead it's taking away the social pressure for basic functioning. /prodded, content and rest of catch up coming on Sunday morning.

[Weatherman]

Fuck fuck fuck. I just have no motivation to get this game properly read up, specifically from 22 to now. Gotta play it by ear and interaction then I guess.
A couple of notions: DGB, inHim, farside, the Dutch one are extremely non-mafia.
I wasn't really feeling iamausername's case (Antihero was it?) in the early pages but he's imo seriously one of the few greatest players of all times on mafiascum, and underrated, play close attention to his gut if turns out town.

I don't know what to make of this serious cyberbob (serious=safe but that's not necessarily the motivation) - lots of both town and scum feeling moments. The argument with farside was weird.
farside - "cyberbob should know weird isn't scummy, has played with people like DGB and Jack"
cyberbob - "has been a long time since I've played with these specific 2 people, gosh farside"
cyberbob's smart, that isn't.

Why is everyone so confusing this game? Is it just me? I'm not even prepared to touch the farside/Korlash battle. The best I gather, it's an argument over whether one person has seen awkward townie play before or something? Ugh, I feel like this is such a lame start to what could otherwise be a really enjoyable game (although I'll admit I have really been enjoying DGB's posts). That's not to say it won't get better of course.

"I'm so confused" feels scummy. Especially from someone cognitively capable like RedCoyote when there was nothing confusing between farside/Korlash.

I don't really like this progression

Let me preface this by saying that I think I can be persuaded onto the Chevre wagon without much arm twisting. I think Chevre is a little too high strung right now, and it's striking me as panicky. Especially that line about how she can't defend herself unless you formally confront her with a case.

The Best Lynches

Kat
Runner
Antihero

The Okay Lynches

Gorrad
Dutch

Chevre

Cyberbob

I like Chevre's last post. I'm starting to really fail to see how she's the biggest wagon here.

Chevre's big L-1 post happened between those last two quotes. Lots of people commended it, several moved away from the wagon (I think only farside continued arguing), by the time RC commented the opinion was in the general spirit of the momentum. I don't like him saying he can't see how chevre is the biggest wagon when the wagon was formed

before

that post during the time he alleged feeling it too. it strikes me as taking advantage on the fact that he had avoided actually placing his vote on that wagon.

The Katsuki vote is a bit easy. Katsuki is someone accepted in the community through being apparently friends and hydraing with some well-known users, but to be honest I have never seen her be anything but useless, fluffy and lurky. If I remember correctly she's very young but that doesn't make it more fun to deal with.

In RedCoyote's post where he votes Gorrad

I'd really prefer a Runner lynch to anything on the table right now, but I know I don't have the energy or the capital to commit to a battle against him.

I don't see Spyrex as voting Gorrad illegitimately here.

He's fluffing his way through the first part of the game. His vote on Cyberbob is kind of lame. [etc etc]

The double negative is gut scummy, and is RC really one of the vollkan-Netopalis school of "legitimate" and "illegitimate"? I only forgive that mindset based on case by case meta history - only certain kinds of rare town players read the game as objectively classifying cases as "legitimate" and "illegitimate" (I think the mindset has gaping holes), but it's a convenient MO as a scum player.

I know this is a stray one currently but

vote: RedCoyote

yeah yeah, haven't commented on the big wagons.
should read more and get a grip
not inclined to vote chevre.
Gorrad could be scum. should read his iso. also werewolf's, since the part of the thread I really read he wasn't really there.
votes aganst nocase seem pretty bad.

[Weatherman]

Well, Weatherman, it's difficult, if not impossible, to put yourself in that same situation. It's a more than a little out of context to label me as feigning emotions, given that a fair number of "psyche-outs" and reaction fishing attempts have happened throughout the game.

Let's cut the crap on generalities. What was confusing about farside/Korlash?

Anyways, I'm having a hard time stomaching the amount of gut feelings in your overall case. You say that the things I say don't feel like things a townie would say and compare me to two different players I've never played with before. I don't recall having played with you before either, even though you propose to know a great deal about what you think I would or wouldn't say as a townie. I hope you won't take offensive to me writing off your case as little more than some false meta supposition, something that I'd argue you had little context with which to judge me on.

I'm an alt, which I actually did state but I don't blame you for missing that. I know you.
The bias I might have would be for finding your scum play transparent before more than anything. when you feel like you've nailed someone you get a feeling of wanting to do that again.
The fact that you haven't played with vollkan/netopalis is completely irrelevant btw, I was more gathering from others whether you really belong to that school of play nowadays.

Moreover, you undercut your own attempt at building a new wagon from the ground up (

with less than two weeks until our deadline, no less

) by admitting to us that you don't have a firm handle on your reread. You shouldn't be criticized for this necessarily, but I think you would be better served having at least that knowledge of the game should you insist on coming after me.

The worst part, however, the part that actually may be valid grounds with which to criticize you on, is your ignorance of why werewolf and Gorrad at least are where they are in the vote count.

I've been very open on having trouble getting myself to read everything.
Two weeks is a hell of a lot of time btw, as you yourself state in the same post, somewhat contradictorily, so deadline-inefficiency is not an argument at this point

But you have plenty of time, so I look forward to future analysis.

I couldn't get strong reads either way from Gorrad/werewolf from skimming the first 20 pages, and also openly stated I hadn't taken real positions and I needed to get a grip and force myself to catch up all the way.
In the meanwhile I'm going with what comes to my mind, it's better than shutting up.
I don't understand your last sentence's function. Are you criticizing me for it or not? Is it bad/scummy play to jump on you in the meanwhile or not?

To be fair, though, I'll give you props for touching on a majority of the players.

I didn't give meaningful opinions on nearly a majority. not even a third.

[Weatherman]

Hey guys
I took a look at werewolf555 and currently think that it's a crap wagon.
The scummy thing would be the edge on chevre and switch on popular wagons. The timing seemed to be following. (chevre=>Gorrad) werewolf's site wide activity at the time actually doesn't give additional evidence towards that though (no other mafia game posts from just before chevre's China Wall until 20 minutes before he posted here again a couple of days later). could be opportunistic scum, but I'm pretty sure he always plays dumb and inattentive from browsing his sitewide profile (remember that guy a couple months ago flooding GD with those stupid applause video clips? proper annoying flooding? that's our guy.), is being targeted too easily by other real bad arguments, and any outsde references of his I've checked sum up as honest/reactions seem real.
The meta argument that convinced people seemed incorrect to me.

Also, I who did I set eyes on immediately at the wagon's birth moments? MY FAVORITE PERSON REDCOYOTE

As you can see from the finished game that wolf was town he scum hunted more and actually made cases instead of following the crowd as he is here.

I feel like farside just found something big on werewolf. I wouldn't be crying if werewolf took a lynch here.
I don't like werewolf's reaction. I would've felt much better if he said that each game was an island and told farside to come off her cloud. As it stands though, farside looks as though she unearthed something important and werewolf comes across as a guilty child trying to look for a bs excuse to get out of it (I don't mean this derogatively, werewolf, I just mean to give an image of how it is playing in my head).

Unvote

;

vote: werewolf555

It makes a very interesting game, by the way. I forgot to mention this earlier.

"Big find" is powerful rhetorics.
RedCoyote, did you take a look at the game farside linked?
If YES, explain how exactly could you think it was a big find on werewolf? He was lynched D1, posted relatively rarely, contradicted himself, in other words based on that game I don't agree with farside's meta at all although I do think she's town.
If NO, how can you have so little curiosity as town on something that you think was a big find/would not want to verify it yourself?

As come for the bs excuse, actually don't find werewolf's "is that a modkill" a bs excuse at all, and most of all it is one that is easily verifiable. I just searched 5 minutes on msutils and indeed found a very recent modkill on werewolf on an ongoing in an exactly similar situation, linking to another ongoing game, where werewolf was clearly burnt for ignorance.
Why didn't

you

?

[Weatherman]

I also iso'd Gorrad. Reaction from just the iso? Pretty fmuch a null. I don't really feel spyreX's original case, but there's nothing very townish either. I'll take a look at the context and the wagon when I feel like reading more.

[Weatherman]

uh, looking at my last two posts, total bullshit?
I just isoed the 2 biggest wagons for god's sake and said to further research the reactions to gorrad soon.
I have stated that I'm not interested in lynching werewolf or chevre or nocase right now.
"technicalities" should be easy to explain if you view it as that, so I'm waiting for your swift reply.

[Weatherman]

those 2 nocase remarks look really genuine. town!

[Weatherman]

*shrug*
They spell town to my gut in flashing lights. Exactly the kind of back-forward musings that come to my mind as town, and I agree on the way he is reading inHim.

[Weatherman]

It's null. I'm not going to make you testify against yourself, but fencesitting stances shouldn't buy Town cred really, hence why Weatherman's opinion drove me up the wall.

I disagree with your approach to mafia.
Whatever comment feels profoundly natural to me I will assign towncred to.
Sometimes that will be someone being in two minds, reading people is subtler than "you are only allowed to count people's firm stances for reading them".
It's not like there was a specific scum motivation for hypo-scum-nocase to blurt out suddenly a downgrade in his inHim townread and then post another side as an afterthought. Fence-sit is as much a buzzword as anything in this case.

Still waiting for RC.

[Weatherman]

Kidding, of course, but I am bitter over the lack of any real debate between these two acceptable wagons.

And you're wondering why I'm getting apathetic? werewolf lynch >>>>>>> gorrad lynch at this point, but people just think they can swoop in and go "lol, werewolf wagon sux balls, gorrad wagon FTW!!!!" Talking to these people is like talking to a lead block, and I'm tired of getting crapped on for no damn reason.

What. The. Fuck.
You changed from werewold to Gorrad when the situation was
werewolf 8
Gorrad 4
Actions and convictions in massive conflict.

unvote; vote: Antihero

I know 'm probably dancing too late in the day that's how it is wth replacng in; consider this a statement at least. And I don't like getting on wagons I'm meh about.
I like Korlash, btw.

[Weatherman]

Will respond to RC if the day is still going on in 14 hours.

[Weatherman]

Guys,
my internet at home is down and mafiascum is blocked at my uni.

I'm V/LA

until I get this fixed, hopefully not many days but I just got a job that will change my life on Sat and have to move cities and am in a bit of a general messy whirlwind of omg right now.

I'll leave a few remarks in a sec.

[Weatherman]

First of all, the Dutch one is one crappy wagon. I really don't buy it. He sounded like a super sincere noob on D1. He had too categories
-"questionable (people who sometimes act suspicious, but who aren't that scummie in my opinion)"
-"possible scum"
Placing Gorrad in the "questionable" category and now saying that he had said Gorrad was scummy (easily verifiable, so he must have remembered so), and making a huge fuss over this is just NO.
I mean please. questionable, sometimes act suspicious vs. his top suspect category and then going SCUM YOU SAID HE WASN'T SCUMMY (difference to not

that

scummie and context, hello!)
I'm liking SpyreX less for being "haha, that's hilarious". I mean I really don't see what's the big tell here.

Also, REMARKABLE:
Antihero not getting much attention except from pro-town players, after this gaff yesterday:

Kidding, of course, but I am bitter over the lack of any real debate between these two acceptable wagons.

And you're wondering why I'm getting apathetic? werewolf lynch >>>>>>> gorrad lynch at this point, but people just think they can swoop in and go "lol, werewolf wagon sux balls, gorrad wagon FTW!!!!" Talking to these people is like talking to a lead block, and I'm tired of getting crapped on for no damn reason.

What. The. Fuck.
You changed from werewold to Gorrad when the situation was
werewolf 8
Gorrad 4
Actions and convictions in massive conflict.

unvote; vote: Antihero

And RedCoyote! RedCoyote who echoed on my point on Antihero as excellent in the same post in which he hammered Gorrad, and then his first post today went like "the Antihero lynch would be the loveliest but hey I can also support this great thing on the Dutch one"
That is really fishy. That

to start the day with

? A-hero already had one vote, the start of the day is where you don't compromize if you're actually interested => me no like.

vote: Antihero

, more in a sec

[Weatherman]

Pokerface, we do know each other but sorry, not telling my main. No point to have a known alt. The whole point of getting one was me wanting to experiment and it requires anonymity.
I'm sure I'll fuck up with my accounts soon enough though, be patient and you'll likely find out.
My replacing in was fuzzy but I'm familiar with the material, can't tell you the exact time when I had read everything. It wasn't chronological, more like read first 20 pages, iso, get references for isos, iso more, in the end have everything.

I love iamausername's spectrum on how he sees the game in its towniest side until Korlash, the only one I don't see exactly similarly in the order is cyberbob (haven't figured him out yet). Usually extensive in synch things happen only with people I'm town. Undiscussed town reads are pretty gutteral, scum reads are easier to be in synch with - for 5/6 on green side I'm willing to call him town.

DGB is town, but dear, go check on your wagon analysis, you have names missing at least from the Gorrad wagon and I think also werewolf. KK didn't make the last vote count in the lynch post etc.

[Weatherman]

Oh, also

Crap! We lost a doctor. well, at least Xalxe is gone. But I'm quite disappointed that both Gorrad and Werewolf turned out to be VT's.

As I already saw mentioned on the way up here, this is a very basic tell. Frankly, I can't even twist this post to make it seem sincere. It's completely and utterly focused on the flips. There's no analysis in here at all. There's no vote in here at all. This is pure reaction, pure, just, emotional regurgitation of what everyone already knows. Overall, it's an ugly, ugly post that does not have any place coming out of a town player's mouth.

This is a cliché tell, but a ridiculously crap one. Like "third vote", but much worse, cause I've never seen were its psychological validity could possibly come from. Somebody explain me. I mean, any player would have a reaction to the new information to themselves. Any player would think to themselves the obvious the the Dutch one stated.
It was the first post of the day besides Xalxe's "bah". 25 min after opening the thread.
An extroverted newbie would blurt out a comment on the flips (radical new information), an introverted might not.
Experienced players rarely comment because of social engineering.
In my time in newbie games, I've never seen the tell as reliable. If there's something psychological behind it, explain it to me.

[Weatherman]

First of all, the Dutch one is one crappy wagon. I really don't buy it. He sounded like a super sincere noob on D1.

I've never been one to excuse people from being scum because of their experience or lackthereof. There are some people you are more or less willing to cut a little slack given their meta or given that they made a questionable statement, but that doesn't mean they can't be scum. I see no reason to look past Dutch in this instance, let alone write him off as obvtown.

Let me repost,
He sounded like a

super sincere

noob on D1
super sincere and noob are both descriptors. I'm not "excusing" him, I'm stating he sounded super sincere D1, and acted like a noob. noobness is independent of sincerety, but a trait how to categorize his behaviour (meta climate matters a huge amount so i don't care about 5 games on some other site).

I can have other suspicions; I can work other angles. Yes, I specifically noted Antihero because I didn't want people to forget that I didn't care for the quote here, but we obviously have a fundamental disagreement over Dutch at the moment (and it's not our first). I want Dutch to take some flak over his opening statement. Maybe he'll satisfy me, and maybe he won't.

Do you think Antihero would be the best lynch? Y/N please.

If you want to analyze it, that's fine by me. Why was there no analysis? If you want to vote based on it, that's fine by me. Why was there no vote? It's just this pure, "Dang! They got our doctor... frowny face. But at least we nabbed that serial killer... happy face." It's the most basic type of psychological manipulation. You're trying to tell everyone that

you feel just like they do

, and it's okay. It's like a forced empathy. I mean, I don't want to sound like I know anything about psychology, I just call out worthless drivel when I see it. This particular worthless drivel was aimed at making Dutch seem like "part of the town" more than anything else that I can tell. Unless you can point me to someone analytical angle that I'm missing.

"This first post of the day made 20 minutes after the opening of the thread is OBVSCUM and never could come from town's mouth because it's an inexperienced player blurting aloud the obvious and has no analysis or vote. No town would ever state the obvious! Instead it must be scum PRETENDING to do so to fit in. Why? Because it's just what the town thinks. Look, look, it's in the wiki!"

[Weatherman]

No. I'm still happy with the Gorrad lynch and I'll take that gamble on risk-reward every time.

This one though wraps itself up all nice and clean.

SpyreX. Clarify what you meant with that last sentence please. The Dutch one "caught"?

[Weatherman]

My access still sucks; internet at home completely down and I'm gonna basically have to rely to late night visits in internet cafes for at least a week more to access mafiascum at all.

Happy with Antihero wagon!

GUYS (especially Kmd)
YOU ARE STILL USING THE NON-COMPLETE VOTECOUNT FOR WAGON ANALYSIS.
KK didn't post the final votecount at the lynch scene.
Final D1 recount:

Gorrad - 11 - iamausername, Cyberbob, DrippingGoofball, SpyreX, Antihero, inHimshallibe, yabbaguy, nocase, farside22, Dutch one, RedCoyote
werewolf555 - 3 - Chevre, Korlash, curiouskarmadog
Chevre - 2 - Seraphim, Xalxe
nocase - 2 - Gorrad, werewolf555
DrippingGoofball - 1 - Kmd4390
Antihero - 1 - Weatherman


For Korlash and RC (I don't think these debates are going to places right now) I will post the succint reply that since my first replacing in post the Dutch one has been up there in the town stratosphere for me and I'm confident enough about that to fight for him at this stage if needed.

A couple of notions: DGB, inHim, farside, the Dutch one are extremely non-mafia.

The whole noob/not noob thing is not very relevant. Korlash, he has stated that it is his first game here and it's obvious he's ignorant of the meta climate.

I'm so happy that iam is town.

SpyreX is scummy

No. I'm still happy with the Gorrad lynch and I'll take that gamble on risk-reward every time.
This one though wraps itself up all nice and clean.

SpyreX. Clarify what you meant with that last sentence please. The Dutch one "caught"?

The ohh shucks isn't a huge deal by itself.
Followed up with the "It is YOU, good sir" on PF is a dealbreaker.

If there's nothing to gain and one isn't trolling, noone in the game of mafia lies about something verifiable. I'm certain that even if I would be tragically wrong on the Dutch one, he would have had a genuine mixup of not remembering that Gorrad was on his „questionable“ list instead of his „scummy“ list. The dealbreaker then boils down to whether it is Dutch town going „you haven't read my posts and your vote seems opportunistic after yabba; vote pf“ or Dutch scum going „OMGOMGUS“
What do you see here that I don't? What is huge there?

[Weatherman]

Oh yeah,

Well, I never thought he sounded that sincere. I thought Runner sounded even worse. What do you think of that?

I think nothing about it, really. I was too biased by my role pm to judge how his posts read to outsiders/pay too much attention to what he thought (I don't even remember his stances anymore).

I mean, if you're going to continue to push this idea that a person may only go after one target and it must be their biggest current scumread, then that's your prerogative. I'm guilty as charged of not subscribing to that policy. I'm a pragmatist and a realist. I realize that my reads aren't infallible, I realize that there are multiple scum, and I realize that you can't always get what you want in this game.

Iam already made the point well, but you didn't even try. Start of a day you cannot even know the positions of others; you automatically reverted to your second choice which is very weird in a situation where you basically start from scratch (second day, extremely early, first wagon just up after one day). That is not pragmatism, that is not when you compromize unless you're half-assed about what you're pushing.
I just checked your sitewide activity at the time; had you had serious posting in your other games while missing for the first 30 hours after thread opened D2 I would have absolutely gone for your throat for waiting out on a way to wiggle out of your hammer post statement. You were not on the site, though, so we'll see about the issue later.

[Weatherman]

Bad activity.

The only thing that really makes me nervous about you is how confident you sound.

You should try an alt too. Very refreshing, the anonymity, easier to play effective, try out stuff and not worry much about the what ifs of being wrong.

I mean, I agree that it was a good catch when Antihero voted Gorrad out of nowhere, by no means do I think that makes him obvious scum. You have to understand we have two entirely different interpretations on Dutch and, apparently, two entirely different interpretations on Antihero's post. We both think it's scummy, yes, but you have got it in your head that I'm trying to sneak a Dutch vote in out of nowhere, which is clearly not the case. I've

never

been fond of Dutch this game. On the other hand, I've had ups and downs with Antihero. And you can keep pushing me on how I'm not being reasonable or prudent, but I will not apologize for using my vote as a tool.

As I've said, I'm ready to drop the subject for now, I'll come back to this later if I see fit; the whole thing was based on the fact that in that first post, without ambigousness, you stated both that Antihero would be the best lynch and got on the Dutch wagon and without bringing up anything else on Antihero than that short line of that lynch being loveliest. Whether this means anything will depend on Stuff.

Liking KMD a bit more.

If there's nothing to gain and one isn't trolling, noone in the game of mafia lies about something verifiable. I'm certain that even if I would be tragically wrong on the Dutch one, he would have had a genuine mixup of not remembering that Gorrad was on his „questionable“ list instead of his „scummy“ list. The dealbreaker then boils down to whether it is Dutch town going „you haven't read my posts and your vote seems opportunistic after yabba; vote pf“ or Dutch scum going „OMGOMGUS“
What do you see here that I don't? What is huge there?

I'm really not sure what the first part has to do with anything.
The response to PF calling him out on the Jeeper's Creepers with that vote is the key point.
As I said earlier, when you add to that nothing (and he IS around, as can be seen by the ??? response to my saying just that before) its busted and skating, hoping the winds will blow a different way.

The first part is exactly what you call Jeeper's creepers. Come on Spy. The OMGUS.
I still don't get you from that response.
I always need to decrypt your style of speech. "Antihero wagon is fffffff" means you think it sucks?
Why?

[Weatherman]

Xtoxm isn't mafia.
I'm getting bored and fidgety and this is making me less confident on Antihero. (hi there parallel)
Pokerface bothers me, btw. More in a bit.

[Weatherman]

What needs to happen here is a full claim from Xtoxm, followed by a full claim from Antihero.

This.

unvote

[Weatherman]

I can't make the post I want right now (need to sleep proper nights, 2nd day at new work tomorrow morning), but guys:
READ THE POKERFACE ISO.
I'm starting to get bothered by the fact that he has never posted anything that doesn't feel like busywork.

vote Pokerface

His scumreads D1 (late replacement): Gorrad, werewolf, inHim.
Vote D2: Dutch man
Can you go more with the flow? with the rise of the Antihero wagon he stated was "considering looking at it" (what that even means I don't know) and commended iaun's post - town looks and decides or doesn't, but "considering to look" sounds exactly like a preparation to perhaps maneuver on.
end of D1:

is gorrad at 9 votes or 10 votes? I am considering dropping the hammer

beginning of D2:

Yo DGB I wasn't on any wagon at the end there. I was not all caught up. I did get caught up during the night though so thats all good. I wrote this during the last night. [etc]

Oh no I wouldn't have voted not caught up! Also, Katsuki was on Chevre, which DGB notes in the wagons analysis, and to which Pokerface replies with this misunderstanding; overly conscious on wagon placement.
Mostly I just get shivers from non-specifically explainable stuff; posts rich with using "questionable" instead of scummy (funny with the Dutch wagon starting with the fact that Gorrad was on Dutch's questionable list, not scummy list, Dutch mixing this up and PF bringing it up), "considering" to do things, being happy on the Dutch wagon waiting for Dutch's responses and generating content that looks like it's generated for the sole purpose of generating something, thoughts I don't think a person with a good scumdar would spout. His last post, as an example, is gut bad.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p2814370
Bob's misunderstanding of CKD was reasonable, I can see how he might have missed what CKD was refering to, but what he said after it looked like a really bad reach. Like he was just searching for any reason to keep voting CKD. I am starting to loose the read I had on him earlier

Bob's post was merely stating a possible obvious scum motivation, perhaps no more likely than the town motivation, but I really don't see the reach.
"I'm staring to lose the read" bothers my gut.

PF, how can I pick a side when all I have are vague innuendos? Hell, who's to say they aren't both town?

Your point is valid and I am of the current thought they both are town, but the thought you portrayed earlier went after both of them so it was like you were saying they were both scum. It is possible that they are but I don't see how anyone could have jumped to a conclusion like that.

Aggressivity is the way to go about questioning things, I just can't feel this at all from RC's post.

The rest is not all that insightful either, sort of fluffy or stays on an obvious, superficial level.

Pokerface, you stated earlier you think you have a good guess who I am and based a townread on that hypothetical meta. Who am I and why town?

[Weatherman]

Can you go more with the flow?

Mmm. I guess in the case of dutch man, to be fair, it by definition was not going with the flow as he was the first vote. I guess my hate of the dutch wagon spilled over; anyway it's on town.

[Weatherman]

Xtoxm, I'm not sure if this is alignment related or not but you suck. I'm sorry but you really do. You don't abandon posting and set up a ghost game in a large for 5 days out of a simple claim situation while being on site.

Also frustrated at PF's non-response so far.

[Weatherman]

@MOD

: I am voting Pokerface.
In case the missing colon was a problem, here we go again:

vote: Pokerface

Fixed.

[Weatherman]

As far as busy work and saying I'd check anti and what not, well I've kinda been getting a bit bored waiting for dutch and what not. Dutch hasn't really done anything new so I've probably started to come off like a broken record there. So I've wanted to see if my vote would be better served elsewhere. Use it to find other scum since dutch obviously can't be the only one. Why I didn't look into it anti or some others yet, only answer I can give is general boredum spilling over and being busy in real life. I have never been replaced in a game and I think I've only been prodded during mass game prods in the past so I guess I didn't want to start, so I had to post something.

Yes this is the problem I was perceiving with many of your posts. they read exactly as "I should post something", which is

the

motivation for scum's posting except when one of their own is under danger. Bored town usually lacks that generic feel.

I honestly don't remember if I read katsuki's posts earlier. He is me so I already know what he is. No need to scumhunt I guy that is me. I think that may be why I didn't or at least didn't care too much about what he said. I don't think he was even paying attention to the game really

this has so little relation to what I was talking about that it's almost funny but it doesn't lead anywhere sorting it out.

Please link games into which you've replaced. Couple latest as town and as scum. Particularly curious about stomping into a game and just happening to find the only 2 players under real scrutiny/danger your only 2 big scumreads (referring to the Gorrad/werewolf situation here).

[Weatherman]

Pokerface, Spyrex, ckd.
Looking at the playerlist, that would be my current top 3 hate zone.
Rereading stuff regards to the others coming up soon, hopefully.

[Weatherman]

Weatherman's solid Town, poking at PF with a stick while everyone else is fixated elsewhere.

People I'll lynch:
[...]
Weatherman
[...]

?

I have a full blown null read on Chevre. Iam's case good as far as cases go but not truly feeling either way. D1 wagon makes me meh. With deadline tomorrow willing to lynch a null.
claim asap, chevre. I think you would be hammered already if Dutch hadn't written vote; vote x instead of unvote; vote x.

out of more popular (in speech) second options, I'd lynch this guy

unvote; vote: SpyreX

[Weatherman]

Oh fuck, today is Saturday? Two days until deadline then. Good. I should work less.

[Weatherman]

I do think a hider finding out innocents is much much better play than trying to get killed on scum.
That being said, if he went for scum, it was SpyreX. Last post of his:

While I don't object particularly to an inHim lynch, Spyrex would be my personal perference.

This crumb or no crumb? It looks to me like the only possible crumb except if he used his list from iso 1.
BUT SpyreX would have been the guy I want to lynch most based on behaviour.
Speedwagons

can

be awesome for information. I'm going to put him at 5 votes. More in a sec.

vote: SpyreX

[Weatherman]

I will get a real post up in a bit.
My reason for voting SpyreX has quite little to do with the hider business - that tell is shaky. It's about Spy's behaviour, being my preferred vote at the end of D2 and so on.
I have to say though, the vanilla claim at this point makes me sway some.

unvote SpyreX

at least until I get my post up

The problem with any clear and followed breadcrumbs from Xtoxm would have been that unless he hit scum, the scum could kill his target and him easily. I just now realize how that claim was strategically unsound - hider

needs

the crumbing to be really effective.
I was thinking it would be also possible that scum blocked and killed Xtoxm. But I just checked the natural action resolution from wiki, and at least there hiding happens

before

blocking.
...hey, wait a minute, if that applies then antihero wouldn't have blocked Xtoxm N1 and yabba would be confirmed again!

@MOD: what happens first in the night action resolution in this game, hiding or blocking?

[Weatherman]

Dutch one was one of the major wagons at the end of the day, not a likely nightkill target.

But a pretty likely vig target. (based on werewolf dying N1, I think expecting a vig would be natural)

[Weatherman]

My life sucks mafiawise atm. Another foreign city with crappy hotel and crappy internet. I'll try to get up early tomorrow morning to make my post.

Weatherman

- Still thinking town even though his unvote of spyreX felt bad. Seriously why do Vanilla claims ever deter anything? I don't get it

...that's the

point

, they rarely ever do. we're up from the lowest point of site meta ebb and flow - that was claiming vanilla under wagon pressure=> very close to certain lynch => scum motivation to claiming vanilla (massclaim/claim not under pressure is obv a whole other story) extremely low.
it's gotten more mixed. but a premature vanilla claim under pressure still gives me pause.

DGB seems

biased

about Spy, I found his D2 horrid.
I still find DGB town though. Do you guys have an affectionate history?

[Weatherman]

...hey, wait a minute, if that applies then antihero wouldn't have blocked Xtoxm N1 and yabba would be confirmed again!

Explain. When was he not confirmed?

anti blocked xtoxm n1, unclear about resolution order.

RC, why do you interpret Xtoxm was hitting scumß?

do you know what i hate about europe? every fucking little country has different keyboards.

[Weatherman]

i'm soooo out of tune with some of you guys (SpyreX, cyberbob at least)
I'm on RCs neck from replacing into D2 like a rabid beaver and no one really cares.
Then the guy makes a move I deem brash enough to look TOWN. And then you guys are all over him.

Why was the chevre hammer scummy?
Seriously. There was NO strategical advantage for RC to flip flop. I'm sure there would have been people to line up to finish the job for the deadline, and he had JUST taken the position, in deadline conscious time frame, that chevre was town, as was dutch. The flip flop is one of those things that is bound to attract attention and seems pointless if he's scum. THe only exception would be a dangerous counterwagon raising. But there was no significant other momentum yet.

[Weatherman]

@Dutch one: your content has been bordering on unacceptably low for too long. I've defended you but this is not okay. You are not suited for this site if this is your normal pattern. I know I haven't had good access lately either but another V/LA from you is pissing me off, frankly.

[Weatherman]

@mod:

we are in a desperate need of a vote count.

[Weatherman]

I'm snapping to dutch one but i still can't deliver.
spyrex, pokerface and non-attention-getters korlash/cyberbob is the list i wanted to look thoroughly. tomorrow. sdhf,hgs-

[Weatherman]

Prodded. I suck. Fever. Content tonight.

[Weatherman]

kmd is reaching waaaay too hard with these crumb reads tbqh. then again I've never really "gotten" the whole breadcrumbing thing so maybe I'm just not the best at spotting them either

I think Kmd's reading something that isn't there.
Xtoxm should have targeted someone on his town list but the inHim crumb just isn't there.
but this remark. from

cyberbob

. it's OFF.
cyberbob ridicules stuff he finds implausible pitilessly sharper than almost anyone on the site. it's psychologically near implausible for the cyberbob I've encountered to go "this is a maaaassive reach... then again, what do I know." This reads hard to me as him not wanting to criticize Kmd to the fullest for some unsaid motive of either not wanting to discourage too much or not wanting to be perceived discouraging too much.

vote: cyberbob

my long post is coming.

[Weatherman]

Kmd, problem is, hider trying to find scum without A+ crumbs will waste the role if he hits scum. once he claimed, really effective crumbing was impossible (hider dies if he's hiding behind a nk target). That's my problem with Xtoxm targeting someone he thinks is scummy.
As for the "only the order of town is relevant", well that's an obvious breadcrumb on targeting yabbaguy who was at the

top

of the town list. Hidden other meanings implied already originally so much before N2, thinking that it's a crumb that he next targets the bottom name on his town list, it's just not more than vague guesswork. If Xtoxm followed the list in the logic he had given, he would have targeted Korlash. That's possible. That's also risky - it's who I would have guessed as scum.

[Weatherman]

fuck. well i knew this would eventually happen. blame it on the fever.

[Weatherman]

Lol. definitively the fever.