Mafia 125: Khan's Game of Mafia (Game Over)

[yabbaguy]

Hello!

Thank you, thank you!

*bows*

Thank you so much.

Subscribing and reading now, my fellow players and not-so-fellow villains. (I'm somewhat giddy at the moment.)

[yabbaguy]

Before I begin-

Hypocratic

Not a word.

[yabbaguy]

I read the whole damn thing in 3 hours PokerFace, including getting distracted by dinner and a lame sports rivalry war. You're reading wrong.

NOW EXCUSE ME.

BUT.

WHY.

THE FUCK.

IS THE CHEVRE WAGON DYING?

When was she not scum?

farside- your werewolf example has a confounding variable- the fact it's a Mini. From personal experience, I floundered in my first Large, Picking Simplicity (Hi, SpyreX!). It very well could be the same thing happening here.

Two posts made me go "huh?". Will the two authors just give me a quick runthrough of what they were meaning?

There's a scum in the first page. I think it might be Seraphim.

OMG, I have been here for years...and that post was the longest I have ever read...firm stances and opinions...and lots of content...town or really ballsy scum...got to be town.

scumlist:
-Chevre: reaction to fake dayvig was delayed, among tentative language. The kicker was somehow trying to take advantage of Dutch one's sentiments about, I believe, DGB. The "DGB didn't want to confess she got caught" line.
-curiouskarmadog: ignored Chevre at 135. This is a contingency case based on Chevre-scum, so it can't possibly be today's lynch.
-RedCoyote: 264, much like Cyberbob, set off my radar.
-Antihero: has just been asking stupider and stupider questions and is being irrelevant.
-Seraphim: tougher one, but the reactions to the initial nocase reaction test were strange.

werewolf is not scum and scum should be found on his wagon.
gorrad is not scum.

I think for the first time, I agree with my predecessor. The Chevre vote sticks.

Fixed your quote tags

[yabbaguy]

Wasn't quite 72 hours here. Still calling myself prodless on the yGDB.

Chevre made a lot of sense whilst I was reading. Let me go back and make a

meaningful

ISO case.

among other things.

[yabbaguy]

YAY!

Here's a gem! Watch this screwy reaction between Chevre and nocase. It's like she thinks he's scummy... and probably does... except not!

*Disclaimer: I fully acknowledge that the usage of fancy area tags does not automatically make my case correct.

All quotes Chevre and numbered by ISO view.

Chevre's Wishy-Washy Language

nocase has claimed that he has a post-restriction. Of course, in a Normal game, I'm immediately suspicious, but I want him to explain his restriction as much as he can.

More information and views are better, and the most vital view here is that of the person who claimed such an unbelievable thing.

The underlined bit is a clunky, needless explanation. She starts to begin to say that she's suspicious but wants to hold back from it.

That being said, nocase and inHimshallibe, why would you lie about having a post restriction? Certain philosophies would have you lynched under that statement.

"Just sayin."

Take a stance.

nocase, I find that very anti-town of you, to say that Xalxe is not scumhunting and then when he asks you a legitimate question of elaboration, you tell him to stop posting. How is that going to help us?

But not scummy.

Flip to nocase for a sec. All quotes him now.

nocase being abnormally tentative

no, it was a perfectly straightforward question.

why aren't you voting anyone?

vote: chevre, i guess.

From a man who shows abnormal confidence and recklessness, tagging that "i guess" on is an interesting contrast. I don't see that anywhere else in the ISO.

@chevre, i would rather not waste my time justifying to you something that i do habitually.

Preferably, he wouldn't want to, not some rash GTFO-ish remark like expected. Why's he being so nice to Chevre?

nocase's scumvenient swap

unvote. vote: chevre. that last post was awesomely indecisive.

Now this did happen as well. But then this comes back after a mere post from DGB.

actually, i'm skeptical about xalxe.

That is NOTHING other than fencesitting. Swap the vote if you're that unsure. And then, only after Chevre gets 3 more votes stacked on her...

dhjkfgdklfjghsgadfhdskjgh.

unvote.

vote: xalxe. yeahhh.

And the swap comes at a scumvenient time. There was quite a bit of contention over the issue of whether or not Xalxe was scummier, but I think there's everything to gain for nocase to jump ship at that point if he and Chevre are scum alike.

I've changed my mind. Chevre, then nocase presuming a red flip from the former, and then we proceed from there.

More votes on Chevre please.

[yabbaguy]

*Disclaimer #2: I realize scumvenience and its derivations are words that haven't been used for years.

[yabbaguy]

selfish x3 post to make sure this lands on the new page I stupidly created.

---

Here's a gem! Watch this screwy reaction between Chevre and nocase. It's like she thinks he's scummy... and probably does... except not!

*Disclaimer: I fully acknowledge that the usage of fancy area tags does not automatically make my case correct.

All quotes Chevre and numbered by ISO view.

Chevre's Wishy-Washy Language

nocase has claimed that he has a post-restriction. Of course, in a Normal game, I'm immediately suspicious, but I want him to explain his restriction as much as he can.

More information and views are better, and the most vital view here is that of the person who claimed such an unbelievable thing.

The underlined bit is a clunky, needless explanation. She starts to begin to say that she's suspicious but wants to hold back from it.

That being said, nocase and inHimshallibe, why would you lie about having a post restriction? Certain philosophies would have you lynched under that statement.

"Just sayin."

Take a stance.

nocase, I find that very anti-town of you, to say that Xalxe is not scumhunting and then when he asks you a legitimate question of elaboration, you tell him to stop posting. How is that going to help us?

But not scummy.

Flip to nocase for a sec. All quotes him now.

nocase being abnormally tentative

no, it was a perfectly straightforward question.

why aren't you voting anyone?

vote: chevre, i guess.

From a man who shows abnormal confidence and recklessness, tagging that "i guess" on is an interesting contrast. I don't see that anywhere else in the ISO.

@chevre, i would rather not waste my time justifying to you something that i do habitually.

Preferably, he wouldn't want to, not some rash GTFO-ish remark like expected. Why's he being so nice to Chevre?

nocase's scumvenient swap

unvote. vote: chevre. that last post was awesomely indecisive.

Now this did happen as well. But then this comes back after a mere post from DGB.

actually, i'm skeptical about xalxe.

That is NOTHING other than fencesitting. Swap the vote if you're that unsure. And then, only after Chevre gets 3 more votes stacked on her...

dhjkfgdklfjghsgadfhdskjgh.

unvote.

vote: xalxe. yeahhh.

And the swap comes at a scumvenient time. There was quite a bit of contention over the issue of whether or not Xalxe was scummier, but I think there's everything to gain for nocase to jump ship at that point if he and Chevre are scum alike.

I've changed my mind. Chevre, then nocase presuming a red flip from the former, and then we proceed from there.

More votes on Chevre please.[/quote]

[yabbaguy]

I. @Chevre
II. @nocase
III. @SpyreX
IV. werewolf = Town

yabbaguy, I've given nocase multiple opportunities to explain why what he did was pro-town. He hasn't. Therefore, I still see it as anti-town. That is a firm stance. It means that until I get further explanation, I don't see how it could help the town in anyway, but it isn't suspicious. Doing something like that would bring heaps of attention upon oneself.

No. You've been pointing out to him that he's doing things that are anti-Town without really saying how you feel about it... like you're saying it just 'cause you can tell him that he's being anti-Town.

It's scumbuddy coaching.

nocase's game start is indicative of nothing other than the desire to start the game with something entertaining, IMO.

The chunky passage is really you lying through your teeth and trying to say gobbledygook that sounds pro-Town.

---

pro-town ≠ explaining every little think you do, especially when it's obvious.

i didn't think i was being nice to chevre.

even if i was being nice to chevre, i don't see how that's a scum team tell, but cool.

Point one is irrelevant.

Basically, you interact with Chevre in a noticeably different way than the other players. Phrases such as "I guess" and "would rather not" are the bits of conservative language that you've used with Chevre and, as far as I can tell, nobody else. That's the niceness of it all.

Attacking Chevre less forcefully leads to her not looking like as much of a big deal. That's where the scum motive enters.

also CAN WE PLEASE GET ON WITH THE LYNCH. if you don't want to lynch werewolf then get over it, that's who we're lynching today. i've got ants in my goddamn pants.

I'm not going to stop trying for Chevre and you. It will happen.

i was hesitant about voting chevre because i wasn't sure, because (GASP!) we were TWO PAGES INTO THE GAME SHOCKING I KNOW.

pfft. You clearly thought her as the as-sure-as-can-be suspect then. Even at that point, I don't believe you as Town would show that timidness. That's the thought.

i didn't vote xalxe because i didn't yet feel he had overtaken chevre.

Saw that coming. The problem is that you have everything to gain as scum for swapping at that point. That Chevre wagon was gaining steam then, and you slipped out the back only then. The fact of the matter is that your timing sucks and that this argument hits a brickwall automatically.

---

@SpyreX: I'm confused.

Read my things again. The second post says:

Chevre made a lot of sense whilst I was reading

as in

Chevre-scum made a lot of sense whilst I was reading

and not

Chevre made a lot of sense with some very good points whilst I was reading

or maybe you're hanging on the fact on where exactly I changed my mind. I changed my mind as in I had my scumlist of 5 people, but then realized I was really sure about Chevre-nocase particularly as a scumpair. I then said, okay, let's abandon the others for the time being, lynch former, lynch latter, see what happens.

---

I still think WW ain't scum. Please show me where he's done something actually scum motivated. Right now, I still think he's a "omg I'm drowning in a Large game" sort of player. Retaliating with the OH MY GOD EVERYONE ON MY WAGON SUCKS (OMGEOMWS) suspicion list could still just be the sign of anti-Town and not Mafia, for one.

I'm terrible at deriving conclusions from meta, but I'll make an attempt at it now.

[yabbaguy]

@SpyreX: I slopped together a Word document of interactions as I went through, which led to the crap I dragged out in catch-up post #1. It actually was pretty meatless, but I made an attempt at going through each of the pages and jotting down things that stood out.

When it came time to substantiate Chevre, the one I definitely recall being the most sure (hence the caps lock key being firmly down while I pleaded for her lynch), I didn't have anything from my doc that would please the jury. So I ignored it and said, "okay, but I know Chevre was scum. Surely I'll find it amidst the ISO", which I conveyed in post #2. In I went.

nocase fell into my lap at that point, hence the sudden realization and my "changing of mind" at post #3. I changed my mind thinking he was nowhere on my sizeable list, in fact, he rocketted up to the top two. It's solely a contingency case- if Chevre flips Town, all those reasons for him being scum mentioned above dissolve. If people are buying my case, this lynch should be happening now because it has another riding right after it.

@nocase: The niceness reaction happened twice. One was on page 2, but your 45th (ISO-44) post was the other.

And it was the

timing

of the swap. That's where the brickwall hits- you jumped off at a very scum-opportune time.

You trying to slap me (and others?) in the face with the "i love all the vets in this game who think they can call scum teams on day one." line is laughable.

[yabbaguy]

VOTE: Gorrad

a good start

now

more

[yabbaguy]

Oh, two people are voting nocase?

Swap please, Gorrad and werewolf. Chevre's better.

[yabbaguy]

Bringing the votecount back, slicing everyone who's standing alone on a vote. (Take the hint- loners should strongly consider a swap at this point)

werewolf555 - 7 - Antihero, Chevre, farside22, RedCoyote, Dutch one, inHimshallibe, nocase
Gorrad - 4 - iamausername, Cyberbob, DrippingGoofball, SpyreX
Chevre - 3 - Seraphim, yabbaguy, Xalxe
nocase - 2 - Gorrad, werewolf555

At this point, we're in a mode where some people, myself included, are screaming at a brick wall that our lynch choice is best without making progress. *glare at DGB*

Regardless of how extroverted everyone has been about their stances, my proposal is that we all rate the wagons 1 through 5, 1 meaning we'd categorically avoid it D1, 5 meaning we're begging for this lynch to happen. It's informative for later, we can gauge where the pulse of the Town really is (maybe we'd support a lynch more if we knew people liked it) etc.

Like this:

werewolf - 1: I won't deny werewolf's been shady and floundering the whole time, but I believe him to be nothing but lazy and a poor scumhunter. Nothing I've seen is directly scum motivated. You need to realize that werewolf, just by glancing at his Wiki, is quickly becoming everyone's favorite lynch. I don't see anything directly scum-motivated from his actions, I can see him still taking stances amidst his madness. Avoid him please, I refuse to participate in a VI lynch right now.
Gorrad - 3: This I could live with. I'm still not entirely sold on it, but his interactions with my top scum suspects are weird somewhat. It's really not one I'm sure of at all, so it's a complacency lynch.
Chevre - 5
nocase - 2: Contingent on Chevre-scum. The order really should be the right way around.

[yabbaguy]

Korl, it's a 1 on the others?

[yabbaguy]

Korl, there are players who are being opaque, and I want to know that if people aren't following my wagon (and other people want to know their support for their wagon) that everyone is consciously dismissing the wagon or admitting their ambivalence, rather than just ignoring the fact that an active effort to lynch the person is occurring. I can't tell which they're doing without forcing them to say "Okay, what's your stance on the wagon? Do you just not care, or are you actively recognizing the arguments made for it and are dismissing the prospect of their lynch in an informed manner?"

If you think you've been transparent enough that I could infer the magic numbers for each of those wagons, fine.

werewolf and Gorrad, I counted, and the Xalxe VC agrees with me on those two.

However, I'd MUCH rather if there's a pigs chance in hell of it happening in the next 10 pages see Gorrad lynched. I guarantee you there's more sweet delicious data there either way and on a scum flip its freaking candyland.

Does this have to do with interactions? I'm intrigued, go on...

I also dont understand the "what has WW done thats scummy?" posts

Wrong way around. YOU have the burden of proof.

You've explained how he's a VI and not how he's scummy in the little points you've made about him. I, at the moment, perceive you as someone floating along for the ride on his wagon.

[yabbaguy]

those 2 nocase remarks look really genuine. town!

My mind: "WHAT THE FU- BOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!!!!!"

[yabbaguy]

nocase was genuinely fencesitting.

Come

on

people. He has a meta, but today, that meta hasn't drawn a Town role.

[yabbaguy]

your meta on me really sucks. i don't always generate reads as quickly as you insist. in fact, i'd say my reads either flip-flop or fence-sit as often as they stick.

It's null. I'm not going to make you testify against yourself, but fencesitting stances shouldn't buy Town cred really, hence why Weatherman's opinion drove me up the wall.

What has werewolf done to let himself off the chain?

Again, I haven't seen anything

scum motivated

from him that's a vast departure from his past play, so it's your burden of proof. Do you at least acknowledge that werewolf is at or headed towards Idiot status? Glance at his Wiki and notice that he has an EXTREME propensity to get D1/D2 lynched. Stack this game to his past meta. farside22 is directly arguing the opposite, but I think he's just like in his other games where the Town binned him.

Uh huh... so theoretically, you're saying if I say a random number then I am no longer 'Ignoring the fact an active effort to lynch is occurring'? And why do you thinking numbered lists is better then trying to force them to explain their stance? Do you speak in binary or do you just not like actual discussion?

Excuse me, but people were giving reasons on the lists. In a game where the dominant complaint is "FFS, why is nobody on my bandwagon?", it helps to have people just briefly give a reason why. If something sticks out now or in retrospect, then yeah, I'll probe. It makes perfect sense.

[yabbaguy]

crypto ain't playing unless one of his alts is. /:|

Unvote, Vote: Gorrad

.

Cancel the pertinent question I had for you, SpyreX.

We'll go with my complacency lynch since my numero uno wagon is stuck in the mud. Gorrad has had funky reactions with Chevre as well, I can flag these points of interest if need-be.

[yabbaguy]

Hi crypto, nocase, nutcase, whatever.

You're oversimplifying my argument.

[yabbaguy]

Gorrad - 10
werewolf - 5

"Is that not a votecount?"

CROWD: YES THAT IS A VOTE COUNT!

"Is that not 10 votes on Gor?"

YES THAT IS 10 VOTES ON GOR!

"Is that not 5 votes on wolf?"

YES THAT IS 5 VOTES ON WOLF!

"Is that not the winning team?"

*pointing at Gor wagon* YES THAT IS THE WINNING TEAM!

"Is that not the losing team?"

*pointing at wolf wagon* YES THAT IS THE LOSING TEAM!

*alternates pointing at respective wagons*

WINNING TEAM!
LOSING TEAM!
WINNING TEAM!
LOSING TEAM!
WINNING TEAM!
LOSING TEAM!
WINNING TEAM!
LOSING TEAM!

*dissipates to applause*

---

Lame parody, I know. But Korlash, I'm a replacement and I feel D1 has gone on too long. It's over.

I think there's stuff directed at me, but I'll reply when it's not a half hour to midnight.

[yabbaguy]

WEREWOLF IS TOWN. I TOLD YOU ALL SO. I'M RIGHT. *rave song plays, ego is visibly seen inflating*

Umm...

Vote: Chevre

Antihero is an intriguing case, but I would, once again, like to label him as a complacency lynch until a) I actually read through his input and interactions into the game and b) well... at least Chevre goes through. I'm still sure that nocase is a good follow-up to that, but clearly very few are swayed by that argument. >:(

[yabbaguy]

Wait a sec...

Crap! We lost a doctor.

FoS: Dutch one

for committing the "Well, That Sucks" tell. Also, as I look at the ISO, a lot of aggressiveness and confidence shows, as if he's sure he has a good handle on the game. I mean, I've been a loudmouth for part of the game myself, but here's where his scumminess shows:

DGB, I know you are making a list like this a lot (other people say that, so I assume that is true), but it's an easy tactic to place yourself in the "town" list. With making this list you more influence in the lynching system because it makes people almost think they have to prove themself that they are townies. And because it's your list, because you are doing this often and because you placed yourself in the townie-list, you don't have to prove anyone, and you get away with it.

Contrived, but alignment-null. Still, we proceed.

Yes, I totaly agree with you definately a townie hunting for scum.

The cynicism strikes me as a Mafioso talking.

ok... so you are voting for Chevre because she said exactly the same that I had in my mind? And anoher thing, I replied about your questions and the only thing you reply with is "Huh? Am I defending DGB?" And after that post I'm suddenly not suspicious anymore in your eyes. That is a really easy way to get away with it.

FoS Jerbs

This is another lynch that I'm sure won't go through but might be worthwhile somewhere down the line. In what I've seen, people who usually have a more inflated confidence about the game than usual often attempt to paint some good-sounding case from one thing and display it to Town as if it were obvious truth. It's a sort of confidence that stems from the position of knowing the answers to everyone's alignment, even moreso now that Xalxe has exited the game.

[yabbaguy]

I think you are only voting for me because Yabbaguy just accused me, and you think I'm an easy wagon to jump on.

This is very wrong.

In fact, practically every damned time you bring something peculiar up, you're setting a straw man by making explanations like "oh I think it's just because you're [insert convoluted chain of logic here]". That's scummy.

[yabbaguy]

Chevre, CKD, nocase

One of these three shall be lynched today.

HOORAY! \o/ \o/ \o/

VOTE: CKD

BOO! >:(

[yabbaguy]

*sigh*

Chevre.

Then nocase.

[yabbaguy]

Is my Chevre lynch eventually going to happen? I'm patient and all, but I just want to make sure that's the plan eventually.

However, this is, notwithstanding the obvious argument in retrospect, much better than the Gorrad lynch.

Unvote, Vote: Dutch one

[yabbaguy]

Could you elaborate more on this? I reread this part a couple of times, but I'm unsure what you are referencing. Do you mean a Dutch lynch or a Jerbs lynch?

That was me wrongly thinking that Dutch one's lynch support wasn't going to take off.

I'd like to think a Jerbs lynch would never happen, in fact. That would suck.

[yabbaguy]

Go to the Newbie queue for your next game, Dutch one. It's not an insult, it's just that you really should've given yourself the tutorial before you recklessly joined a Large game thinking that your past Mafia experience was enough. You've just committed another textbook Wiki logical fallacy, Appeal to Emotion, showing a complete lack of resources to defend yourself against our arguments.

Since you did refuse the kiddie gloves however, DIEDIEDIELYNCHLYNCHLYNCHOBVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVSCUM.

[yabbaguy]

inHim, please actually show where we're going wrong if you think Dutch is Town. Here's a case of newscum instead of noobtown like werewolf, the way I see it. It's not a convenient wagon, it's the right one.

DGB: First you suggest nocase is someone who will be lynched today, now he's in your almighty triumvirate, first Dutch one is someone you're claiming made a scum slip, now he's fallen off in favor of three other suspects.

What the hell are you doing right now?

[yabbaguy]

Add Antihero to my "would lynch" list, by the way.

[yabbaguy]

Chevre, why are you still preoccupied with your potential lynch whilst you, well, were on zero? You're mentioning the prospect of you dropping before Dutch.

[yabbaguy]

I'll revisit- but at the moment, I'm of the belief that the lazy belief is actually the other way around from what it seems people are thinking- the belief that the Dutch one's wagon sucks just as much as werewolf's for all the same reasons. To me, it is a sign that people have their head in the past result of werewolf actually in fact being noobTown and equating it to Dutch being noobTown.

More developing thoughts on Dutch's scum likelihood later.

[yabbaguy]

Quickly: Flips include the role PM, PokerFace. ISO KK if you have to.

[yabbaguy]

Actually, I'll bend. I'm looking into Dutch, and while he is perhaps an extremely disagreeable player, I've noticed his voting patterns actually seem to be pretty Town motivated. It's odd how he goes to FoS DGB several thousand times after the first, but my mind's split now considering that consistency. Still niggling me are those points about how he's committed both blatant "That Sucks" and "Appeal to Emotion", but the latter ain't a scumtell and the former, I have to realize, I haven't much of an idea as to its reliability. Does anyone have more of an insight on the "That Sucks" tell?

I'm looking at the next one down, Antihero. It could be- I know he's even more of a saucy character when he draws a scum role- about the level he's at now. The thing is, I want to do my game plan again, and Chevre's not that far below.

So it's

FoS: Antihero

. But...

Unvote, Vote: Chevre

...why did this wagon fall apart at the end of D1 anyway?

[yabbaguy]

inHim, I will change my mind all I damn well please anyway. There's a tell for changing one's mind too often (hopping) and too little (tunnelling). Therefore, it stands to reason that I am allowed to change my mind a reasonable amount of times. There isn't even a quota- it's just if I swap at a time that doesn't seem Town. If I do that, *then* go after me.

I'm willing to bet you knew that already somewhere in your mind.

@nocase: Multi-Mafia and a Serial Killer? Run me through that, I don't find the likelihood of that high at all.

---

Fiiiiiiiiine, I'll revert.

Unvote, Vote: Antihero

suspect list:
Chevre
Antihero
nocase (contingent on Chevre)

and probably a 4th, but I'm not sure.

[yabbaguy]

Nobody likes the Chevre wagon, ckd. I mean, I've already put the stuff out there, she hasn't said much to add to that, and nobody's buying. :(

[yabbaguy]

The case on Antihero seems to be a summary of his posting style

as scum

.

Don't you dare bastardize the case as something it isn't. FTFY.

[yabbaguy]

I. Antihero as scum
II. Antihero as Town
III. Antihero now

It was sort of one of those things where you have a look at something as a readthrough, and then hate it as you read through it again. If you lot saw me lurking, I spent half of the time bashing my head.

Here comes the thought process, which I'm candidly writing as I go.

---
I. Scum Antihero

Take one of his scum games from November. Coupl'a noobs in it.

Open 265

All quotes by Antihero FROM THE ABOVE GAME AND NOT THIS ONE.

@chesskid: You're still refusing to explain how joystick is scum. He didn't vote in a circle? So what? It just looks like you're pulling stuff out of your ass at this point.

P. Edit: WTF, chesskid? WTF?

Latter was in reaction to a controversially-timed claim from chesskid.

Oh, please. Here's another "because I said so" bullshit "tell".

Sauciness.

Oh, come on Zed, you can do better than that.

Mockery.

Can you please be more specific when you say "did it wrong"?

...and interestingly, well-mannered tone of voice at times.

So basically, that's how I gleam he's 10x saucier than usual.

---
II. Town Antihero

Now I've just realized that this game is actually over. He replaced out and his slot got lynched down the road.

He's Town in this game.

OK, why did I replace into this mess again? I just wanted to do fishy a favor, but this MC crap makes me want to die inside.

We subtract mockery away, i.e. it's a nulltell.

Alright, prepare your votes everybody. I'm going to find the scum now.

Here mentions that he's über confident in his scumhunting abilities. He's focusing on it. He didn't really do that in his Mafia game.

---
III. Antihero from now

Okay. Now we have the gauge set as best as it can be.

What I glean-

when Anithero cares more about himself and finding scum- that's a Towntell
when Antihero's going out of his way to talk about others' playstyles- that's a scumtell

Now into the relevant ISO- from this game.

Do I sense irritation? There's no reason for that; nitpicking early on is how I roll. Nothing personal.

That latter sentence is what I'd call the well-mannered scumtell from earlier.

^Wasted votes make me cry on the inside.

Again going out of his way to mention another players' playstyle. Interesting.

Also, there are plenty of lazy people on this site. Jerbs isn't one of them. Try again.

This is @Cyberbob, he's going out of his way to correct another players' read. He cares more about the other players then his own supposed objective of finding scum.

Also, there's no reason to be condescending. You're accusation is unclear and bizarre to me, especially considering the later jab at Chevre by quoting DGB.

There's him being well-mannered again and talking to werewolf-Town as a gentleman instead of going full-thrusters like I thought. Antihero also tends to invest a lot of emotion into his Town games, from what I gather.

There's more of this chivalry-telling and a significant lack of focus on his own scumhunting in the ISO, in my opinion. You all have a different set of eyes and a different brain from mine. You tell me if I'm missing something or put a tell in the wrong column (town/scum/null). I'm sure Antihero who actually knows his meta better than I do, I would gather, has an idea.

My vote sticks. If anyone's replying to this- do me a favor and resist the urge to fling a wall back unless you see it as the best way to reply.

[yabbaguy]

@KK: Ignore PokerFace, please.

PF, you're stupidly asking questions whose answers are in KK's ISO. We get a "3 days remaining" alarm in thread- presumably by massprod as well.

[yabbaguy]

See, this is consistent with my former theory. It's still sort of that strange arguing-but-not-really-accusing relationship that's been present between nocase and Chevre the whole game.

Can I restate the question again and ask whether or not people believe it's a link?

[yabbaguy]

- Prodding Gorrad..

@Korl: The problem is that I think I can only go chronologically backwards from these games, and the more I do that, the more the meta becomes irrelevant to present-day Antihero. I did one scum and one Town game, hence. Even if I had found more relevant meta, I probably would've just posted one Maf and one Town game anyway.

@SpyX: Mafia can be apathetic as well, or, um, can feign apathy. Yeah?

@all: Fair, I'll drop nocase off the list. I s'pose I'll aim for Antihero or Chevre today and stick with that unless someone really wants to drag an incredibly novel case out right now.

[yabbaguy]

@Nocase:

Will you apologise when I turn up town, or is it my fault for being too scummy? Aptly named account, by the way.

Hey where's your scum hunting?

Saw this and forgot to remark on it. Yeah, that's + scumpoints.

[yabbaguy]

YES! I now have the golden license to change my mind all I damn well please. This is a privilege I believe I have not had the chance to enjoy for a prolonged period of gameplay. :)

Be back in a bit!

[yabbaguy]

*headdesk*

That sounded unbelievably corny. But the reality is that I am a fallible human named Greg, and Greg is a corny man.

Next post

will

be actual content.

[yabbaguy]

Well fuck it, I want to act like a confirmed townie anyway.

[yabbaguy]

Hider's something different, but I'm 99.9% sure he means Weak Cop.

Trying to think- that doesn't sound like a scum claim. If that were actually the case, I could see himself metaphorically running into a wall somewhere down the road running out of pseudo-investigation targets that were innocent.

So I'm, hence, 99.9% sure he's truthing here.

[yabbaguy]

They're just lazy substitutions for a better punctuation mark- comma or period. Not hard to get.

[yabbaguy]

Kmd, you are lurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrking.

[yabbaguy]

Still thinking about what I should do as confirmed Town. Last thing I want to do is clutter the thread with candid commentary, but blech, I'm getting apathetic.

Deciding on a lynch is usually the best cure for apathy. I'll find a way to get my interest up in a bit.

[yabbaguy]

Fine, I won't act like obvious confirmed. >:(

Notwithstanding the accuracy (obviously), I do believe Xtoxm right now, in any event, but Antihero has already effectively claimed better-than-Vanilla. Hasn't Xtoxm already claimed though? I mean... that doesn't make sense why we somehow need more, and I think the gist got through even though he technically claimed two rolenames. I saw someone in another Theme game where he was Town claim the sample PM, if anyone's arguing it's scummy, so I don't want to touch him.

Xtoxm should die on his own provided he gets an investigation off every Night. Other factors may tamper with this plan, but either way, he definitely shouldn't be today's lynch.

I'm uncertain about Antihero at first glance, I'll read into that softclaim in a bit. We could have two Investigators, or maybe Anti has made a bold, fake scumclaim. I'm unsure, and hence cannot keep the firm stance. :\

Unvote

Kmd, can I ask why your interest in the game suddenly spiked when a big controversy appeared? You really have not been putting any input into the game for far too long, and now when we're dealing with stuff where scum can both be easily detected and easily blended, you now step in to contribute.

The timing pings scummy to me- why haven't you been attempting to scumhunt before?

[yabbaguy]

So xtoxm doesn't actually get a pm, but he lived, hence he thought he had taken a risk with me and lived. And I really lose confirmed status.

Vote Chevre

[yabbaguy]

The dizzying rate of flip-flopping MUST stop. I am sick of it, and this secret deadline is going to kick our asses at this rate. I'm gonna read back and watch now for people deliberately trying to fog things up.

Who I absolutely would not lynch:
Dutch_one - case has been disintegrated ages ago
Antihero and Xtoxm - claims are very strong

Really fuzzy reads: (usually for reasons of sounding Town but are doing a disturbingly good job of blending. I'll reread later.)
PokerFace
Korlash
iamausername
Weatherman
inHimshallibe
DrippingGoofball - not for the above reasons, actually just for sounding more and more worthless as the game progresses. Her blunt style sounded fantastic at first, but it's beginning to just foster this awful environment.

^6 players large. Very bad, just from the statistical likelihood of one Mafia existing in that bunch being very high.

Who I'd lynch, in order of preference:
1. Chevre - still my most certain scum suspect. (<- current vote)
2. Kmd - lurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrker.
3. SpyreX. This is novel- he's blending and coming in for the off comment and contributing to this awfully anti-productive atmosphere. This is very off from the SpyX I know- he's usually very keen on energizing the game with novel thoughts and a novel attitude on the game. What's the difference?
4. nocase - Still in the back of my mind, not expecting its support, but I saw another rapid Chevre reverse and the fact that he's now flipped his vote (mind you, to SpyX) rather reflexively. If someone scooped this case up, I'd hop.

Transparency please, everyone, I'd like top 3/5/whatever suspect lists, no funny business or shenanigans. Korlash doesn't like numbers, that's fine, we won't do a 1-5 scale. But we desperately need to have clear indicators of where everyone stands at this point, we're a bunch of apathetic wrecks who are impulsively latching onto anything that sorta kinda makes sense at this point and complacently accepting replies to just the current events as significant enough contribution.

Votes have lost all meaning in this game at this point in time. They are NOT good enough indicators of who you feel suspicious.

And yeah- new scumtell for this game at least, muddying the waters.

[yabbaguy]

@Chevre's Dutch_one case.

I: That's fine - why is this overconfidence or relying on known information?
II: Not scummy - Dutch is a weaker player, and this is still possible.
III: From A to C, the wagon was actually dying. Fair point by Dutch.
IV: That's your stance. We've been over this, and we generally conclude the tell itself is speculative.
V: This happens constantly from Town. AtE is not a scumtell. People make these posts constantly as all alignments.

Vote sticks.

I'd like to warn the Town that we should have at most two wagons, and I only see Chevre and SpyreX as plausible. PokerFace, I have no read on, and Dutch one is a lousy choice. The standalone votes and nonvoters are categorically anti-Town right now.

[yabbaguy]

If we can get to L-1 really, really quickly, we can demand a claim and have some time to discuss. NOT swinging the hammer, however, would be a larger problem since the deadline alarm just went off.

[yabbaguy]

Chevre's female.

And I'm saying if someone else happens to be run up, at least get it over with quickly. Obviously, Chevre's claimed Vanilla, but if someone else gets wagonned up and they have to claim, we could actually do something about the claim, even a full-out wagon shift.

Make sense?

[yabbaguy]

Come

on

DGB.

Anyway, Chevre's one off, hammer appreciated thanks.

[yabbaguy]

FINALLY.

[yabbaguy]

SpyreX is still potentially scum, but that was a terrible wagon based on a contrived interpretation of Xtoxm's death.

If he is Town, that wagon has scum on it.

DGB, you are simply reminding people about the fact that I am wrong.

iPhone post, more later.

[yabbaguy]

Not thrilled that you still decided to opportunistically turn it into an information wagon, Weatherman. But okay.

RedCoyote certainly gets minus points for suggesting a rather blatant inaccuracy about Xtoxm in the first place.

[yabbaguy]

No, I don't buy that RC. Xtoxm clearly laid out that he had, and therefore probably would, go down the tactics of picking the Towniest person he thought would not die.

And hey, curiouskarmadog is on the list. Obviously, he was quite wrong, but maybe quite literally he was dead wrong and hid with him. In that case, we have no further business to discuss. But aside from that, there are plenty of other Town people and I also think he was Nightkilled manually by the factional kill.

I also think the lashing out at quotes in a disjoint and random fashion is a scummy move, since it's not scumhunting, it's merely an effort to discredit players as much as possible. Earliest instance of seeing this tell... uhh... Antihero-scum in Open 175.

Vote: RedCoyote

[yabbaguy]

...in a clearly stated way.

[yabbaguy]

Still happy with RC vote. I have a guess as to what SpyreX is having a look at, but I'll let him say it.

Someone show me how ckd and SpyreX are buddying, please?

[yabbaguy]

Oh, I see a theme. An honest townie trying to fight his way through PRs, scum, and at least one SK.

Agreed with Cyberbob, this is a bad reply to a good point made against you.

[yabbaguy]

Criminey with the sauciness. I'll have a post by tomorrow.

[yabbaguy]

@SpyreX: Dutch one case has been dismissed ages ago. How is going on vacation repeatedly

scummy

, not just annoying?
@DGB: Same question

I'm looking at this RedCoyote case, but the more I think about it, the more I realize... "Hey, once upon a time, I was a lazy scumhunter in Large games." Laziness and coasting on other tells isn't really a scumtell unless you can show that there's opportunism involved. The hammer is the only thing really making my head scratch, and the cynicism, goddamn. I can't understand logic when it's infused with this unnecessary bitterness. :\

FoS: inHimshallibe

Deliberately contributing to the anti-Town sphere and wagon opportunism according to DGB's formula. I'm still wavering on the fact that SpyreX is scum who's just being poorly accused just by eyeballing it, but I'm more sure about this one.

This I really want an explanation about:

DGB
SpyreX
nocase
inHim
Cyberbob
Antihero

Let's kill someone.

and after nocase goes

unvote. vote: gorrad.

You go:

unvote
vote: gorrad

What the fuck. Not on your "to kill" list, and yet here we are without any explanation. What's the explanation?

It's also just too convenient how widespread the "to kill" blanket is so wide. It basically just gave you the license to hop between any wagon, so long as it was the biggest, you're on. I should've squawked at the 5 5 5 1 response to Chevre/werewolf/Gorrad/nocase question and wondered how he came to all those conclusions. But now especially with the fact that they're ALL Town, and inHim didn't really give a solid explanation for his 5s in the first place.

Why FoS? Because I want to do this even-more-sure lynch instead:

Unvote, Vote: Kmd

He's usually quite more substantive than this as Town. But everything's just shenanigans and wagon-hopping now. He's deliberately blending with the anti-Townness of one-liners and just making the game into the informal wreck it is now. Again, the tell of pushing an anti-Town atmosphere, scum love it when the environment for scumhunting is suboptimal.

[yabbaguy]

It is consistent I guess. I still have massive problems with the fact that you generally refuse to go into more detailed scumhunting tasks when your past games as Town, you do this much more extensively. What's different?

Can you explain the chain of logic leading to how Xtoxm targetted and was thus killed by inHim? I see your post where you do this, but I can't say the logic is jumping out at me. Main problem is that I don't buy the last Xtoxm post as an actual breadcrumb of any sort.

[yabbaguy]

While I don't object particularly to an inHim lynch, Spyrex would be my personal perference.

This allegedly crumbs inHim as the target that Night. I don't see it, myself.

[yabbaguy]

I went for someone who I had a town lean on who I thought would not be NKed.

Xtoxm had a Town lean on neither inHim nor SpyreX according to that last statement. I actually think this is a definitively busted argument.

[yabbaguy]

Since this.

[yabbaguy]

Maybe he did change tactics. So again, we can't assume anything. :\

[yabbaguy]

If he fell off the Town list, he doesn't have a Town read on inHim.

But again, I also buy that the tactics changed.

I assume we can assume nothing is my thought.

[yabbaguy]

Unvote, (re)Vote: inHimshallibe

Not in light of any crumb of sorts, I'm just more sure of him now than Kmd.

[yabbaguy]

Good post 1678, iamausername.

[yabbaguy]

Which is not an adequate substitute for responding to the points regarding your scumminess, I do need to point out.

[yabbaguy]

tl;dr that wagon analysis for me? If DGB does one thing right- it's making things easy to read for stupid people who need pretty colors and little words adn numbers.

The assumption I get is that inHim shows Town to you from that analysis, but I don't follow.

[yabbaguy]

Lovely.

Meanwhile, we're all being a grand bunch of egotists again. Who are we willing to lynch?

Me:
inHim
Kmd
-rift-
Coyote

[yabbaguy]

Can I do a sweep on people's stances on Korlash's alignment real quick? I still don't have a damn clue about what to make of him.

[yabbaguy]

inHim is lynched, I believe.

FOS: Cyberbob

for blathering.

[yabbaguy]

Well that sucks.

Naht.