NY 114: Mafia vs. Werewolves (Game Over)

[LimMePls]

confirmed by pm, but I figured I'd do it here too.

/confirm

Looking forward to the game!

[LimMePls]

SSBF I have to agree with everyone else. The things you are saying seem really scummy to me.

If you quick hammer me, you run a higher risk of killing a townie.

A higher risk? o.O And who said anything about a quick hammer?

Due to all this pre-game talk, are we even gonna have an RVS?

[LimMePls]

Sorry, haven't been following this... didn't think we'd start pregame .

Anyway -

Super Smash Bros. Fan's list is null... I don't really agree with it, but I don't see what makes it so scummy. It seems more like something easy to bandwagon onto. With that in mind,

FomS: Parama and Chronopie

. Parama seems far more eager to lynch over that alone, but chronopie seems to be following him, which is odd.

I agree with your SSBF points, although I do think he is acting a bit scummy. I think those who have seized on it to the point that they are pre-game voting is a bit suspicious.

[LimMePls]

Sorry, haven't been following this... didn't think we'd start pregame .

Anyway -

Super Smash Bros. Fan's list is null... I don't really agree with it, but I don't see what makes it so scummy. It seems more like something easy to bandwagon onto. With that in mind,

FomS: Parama and Chronopie

. Parama seems far more eager to lynch over that alone, but chronopie seems to be following him, which is odd.

I agree with your SSBF points, although I do think he is acting a bit scummy. I think those who have seized on it to the point that they are pre-game voting is a bit suspicious.

[LimMePls]

1) Live games? Countless. Forum games? 2
2) Live? Yes. Forum? Not even close
3) No
4) Yes

[LimMePls]

zOmg I've got 6 points already? Oh noes...

[LimMePls]

@chronopie Doh! I knew I screwed up with my account name. I should have made it "I'm Never Scum" or "Trust Me". What was I thinking? *bonk*

[LimMePls]

But let's take a look elsewhere at what I was seeing earlier.
askbob, vezopiraka, SGRaaize, and LynchMePlz all softly egged on the SSBF wagon without actually taking the active role Parama did and/or tried to use their own "unique" brand of arguments against SSBF (askbob 65, vezo 77, LMP's MASSIVE fence-sit in 88). The chance of all of them being Town is nil.

I like this fence. I think SSBF is either scummy or over eager town, and I haven't made up my mind yet. I also think egging the whole thing on has been good for town. I'd be surprised if Parama AND SSBF are both town. I wanted to see how it shakes out.

My vote's going to the one who IMO had the most weak comments of them all on top of lurking in New York while not posting earlier. (I've already looked at the other games in this subforum; he's not in any of them.)

I dont get the argument against vezopiraka, can you explain it again? What do you mean by lurking in NY? Do you mean he was lurking in pre-game? Which comments were weak?

[LimMePls]

But let's take a look elsewhere at what I was seeing earlier.
askbob, vezopiraka, SGRaaize, and LynchMePlz all softly egged on the SSBF wagon without actually taking the active role Parama did and/or tried to use their own "unique" brand of arguments against SSBF (askbob 65, vezo 77, LMP's MASSIVE fence-sit in 88). The chance of all of them being Town is nil.

I like this fence. I think SSBF is either scummy or over eager town, and I haven't made up my mind yet. I also think egging the whole thing on has been good for town. I'd be surprised if Parama AND SSBF are both town. I wanted to see how it shakes out.

My vote's going to the one who IMO had the most weak comments of them all on top of lurking in New York while not posting earlier. (I've already looked at the other games in this subforum; he's not in any of them.)

I dont get the argument against vezopiraka, can you explain it again? What do you mean by lurking in NY? Do you mean he was lurking in pre-game? Which comments were weak?

[LimMePls]

Sorry for the laggy double post.

Sure I'll vote.

Vote: Parama

Of the thread so far he comes off scummiest to me. Particularly the over enthusiastic attacking of SSFB and the pre-game vote that wasn't a vote. He strikes me as opportunistic scum preying on an easy target.

[LimMePls]

Also why are you concerned about whether there’s an RVS or not?

Cause I've never done one and they sounded like fun. I've read a lot of completed games on the site, and I always thought the RVS stage looked funny. The only game I'm playing on this site I replaced in after RVS.

I was gonna do an RVS vote, but the 5 or so pages of pregame talk seemed like the game didn't need it.

I guess my "really" and "a bit" are pretty contradictory. I was just trying to keep the whole thing going. I think there was good stuff going on in the whole SSBF/Parama thing.

[LimMePls]

I have somewhat of an inside source and I can tell you that lynchmepls is in the mafia but he's not werewolf. And no I don't know this cause I'm scum.

unvote:vi
Vote:Lynchmepls

Are you smoking crack vez? What inside source is this? What a fascinating development.

@Vi It's cause I'm pretty much a complete noob at forum mafia. I'm still learning, as my post answering your questions stated. I'm perfectly willing to admit I'm a noob. I am most definitely not scum though.

[LimMePls]

He is definitely lying.

If I vote him, I'm OMGUS voting and I can't be trusted. If I don't vote him, then my not voting means I can't be trusted. It's a Catch-22. What the hell am I supposed to do?

Unvote

Vote: vezopiraka

You happy nhammen?

[LimMePls]

Unvote

I hate idiots.

[LimMePls]

Is it just me, or are Mason groups the first thing to get outted in these forum games? I've read three or four games now, and I think in all but one the mason group outted themselves day 1.

I 1000% believe Seraphim.

[LimMePls]

Yeah. It was the only move I could possibly make after they became convinced to take me down with them. My God.

Now you know why I thought your case was weaksauce, Vi. But now I'm not so sure. The play I have just witnessed is pretty terrible. If any of them is scum, it's Vezo, I'm fairly sure Daniel is town.

Based on current information, as much as it pains me to say it, vezo is definitely not scum. And much like Forrest Gump "That's about all I got to say about that".

[LimMePls]

@Dry-fit I'm not clinging to the nooby card so much as answering Vi's question and admitting that if my play was bad it was from noobness.

Sevis is very astute.

For now, I like the Dr. Robotnik wagon, so...

Vote: Dr. Robotnik

[LimMePls]

I'll

Unvote
Vote daniel94581

I seriously don't know whether to laugh or cry. This post makes me sad.

[LimMePls]

FMI why do you think I look most town

Do you need to be convinced of your own innocence?

If someone on the mason team is scum, I'm pretty sure it's daniel.

[LimMePls]

I didn't say I think daniel is scum, I said that if someone from the mason group is scum it's daniel Please don't misrepresent what I said.

[LimMePls]

Once again, you are misrepresenting me. If your question is why do I think he is scummier than Seraph and voz, then I'll answer that by saying Seraph's cleared a lot of things up for the town, and if he were scum I don't think he would have made the claim. For why I think voz isn't scum, I'll point you to post 283. And I'll reiterate that, at this time "That's about all I got to say about that".

Thus, as I've said twice already,

IF

there is scum among the masons, I think it is daniel. That DOES NOT mean I'm saying daniel is scummy. Do you have a hard time understanding the distinction?

If there an ugly chick among Angelina Jolie, Megan Fox and Jessica Alba, it is Angelina Jolie. That does not mean Angelina is ugly, it means that of those three, if I had to say one was ugly, I would say Angelina Jolie. If you still don't understand, I can't help you.

[LimMePls]

This is exactly what I meant.

It isn't what you said. You said

Please come up with a better reason as to why you think daniel is scum LMP.

I asked you why you thought he was scummy

Asking me why I think he is scummy is not the same as asking me why I think that he is most likely of the masons to be scum. I think the distinction is very important, and I don't want to be misrepresented. I don't want anyone later on saying "But you said daniel was scum". That is not what I said.

I think I've been about as clear about this as I can be, so this will be the last I say on this subject.

[LimMePls]

EBWOP: I'd also like to add that your repeated attempt to misrepresent me is noted.

[LimMePls]

Seraphim is just stupid. I don't know why he claimed.
Nobody from the mason group know about my power.
I think there was another question for me but I forgot it.

Vezo, seriously, I think you have a real logic problem. Seraphim's claiming is the only thing that has even semi straightened out this situation. Blaiming him for your false accusations against your partners is ridiculous. You need to take responsibility for the fact that you started accusing people of being scum for almost no reason.

[LimMePls]

You know what, I think the town is losing a lot of focus by the massive cluster **** that Vezo has caused. I'd like to share my info with the town, since I've hinted at it, but others don't seem to pick up on it. If the town would like me to completely clear this whole mess up, I'm willing to do so. If people think I should be quiet I will.

Above all else, as much as it pains me to say it, vezo is not scum. Any lynch of Vezo is a guaranteed mislynch.

[LimMePls]

@Vi Pretty sure Dry-fit doesn't like me being on the Robotnik wagon, but he didn't want to say it. He's been riding me for awhile now.

[LimMePls]

@C-Pie: With everything that has happened in this game, the most likely conclusion you come to is that I'm a cop, and that somehow I've had an investigation in a game that has had no nights, and that if I somehow did have a N0 investigation, I used it on Vezo, who then later accuses me of being mafia? That doesn't make sense at all. 379 and 380 both look a bit scummy to me.

FOS: Chronopie

[LimMePls]

You know what, I've changed my mind.

UnFos:Chronopie

I like this much better.

Unvote: Dr. Robotnik
Vote: Chornopie

[LimMePls]

@Parama: Is there anyone you aren't HOSing or FOSing in that post? Don't they start to lose meaning when you've done it to 5 people in the same post?

I agree that Nhammen is acting scummy. I also really like my Chronopie vote, so I agree with you in that regard.

[LimMePls]

@Dry-fit 365: Sit on that fence some more please.

What fence? I think that both Robotnik and some of his wagoners are suspicious, and am currently voting one of the wagoners (LynchMePls)

That's a bit of a misrepresentation. You were voting me before my Dr. Robotnik vote, so you can't say you voted me because I was on that wagon.

I think the nhammen wagon is good, but I like my vote were it is.

[LimMePls]

Well, Vezo claimed, and since it'll be pretty obvious, I'll go along and do so as well. That way the town will have the info and can make of it what they will. Here is the post I prepared for if the town wanted me to share my info:

Alright, lets clear the air.

I am a monk (functionally the same as a mason). I am one of three. Vezo is one of the other monks. I choose to not disclose the third monks identity at this time.

As a monk, I know that my monk partners ARE NOT werewolves. I do not know if they are mafia or not.

When Vezo started spewing his unbelievable "Lynch is mafia" business, I was initially confused. When he then started accusing daniel, I started to get an idea about where his info was coming from. When Seraph made the claim, all the pieces fell into place. There are essentially two groups that can talk at night. 1 is a mason group that knows each other are not mafia. The other is a monk group that knows each other aren't werewolves. To further complicate things, Vezo is in both.

For some reason, my guess being that Vezo isn't good at logic, Vezo thinks that because he was told "the members of this group can't be werewolves" he thinks that means one of them MUST be mafia. And since he was told that "a member of this mason group can't be mafia" he took that to mean one of them MUST be a werewolf. I'll give you all a moment to digest this appalling use of logic. For some of us who are logic challenged, I'll use this example. X can belong to the group A, B, or C. You are told X is not A. Does that mean X is B??? Clearly not.

Now, for whatever reason, he decided that between me and the other member of our group, I must be the mafioso.

What does this tell us: First and foremost, since no one in Seraph's group can be mafia, and no one in my group can be werewolf, and Vezo is in both, VEZO IS CONFIRMED TOWN. PLEASE STOP TRYING TO LYNCH HIM. It also tells us that Vezo's logic isn't very sharp, and we should be careful with any conclusions he draws from information. (I don't mean to be rude, this is just a fact). Lastly, the possibility does exist that Seraph, daniel, and MonkX are scum, though they can only belong to a specific faction.

I'm pretty sure Vezo completely wrecked the usefulness of the Monk and Mason groups. I think at this point, the best way to salvage the situation is to confirm a townie, and get us back on track hunting for scum amongst the rest of the game. This explains why I said that of the three masons, daniel is the most likely to be scum, but I wanted to be clear I didn't mean that daniel IS scummy. I think Seraph's claim only makes sense if he is not a mason/werewolf. If he were a mason/werewolf he would have been happy to let the whole thing continue spiraling out of control.

[LimMePls]

@Vezo why are you still voting daniel? Surely there has to be a better use of your vote. Do you really think the mod meant to imply that one of your mason mates HAD to be mafia?

[LimMePls]

No, I mean, the monk/mason chat portion. I mean, I can't really rely on anything Vezo says now.

[LimMePls]

Unvote
UnFOS
Vote: nhammen
FOS: Chronopie

nhammen that is L-2, I think its claim time.

[LimMePls]

Why is it important for you to point out the lurkers? Any of us that are paying attention know who the lurkers are.

I'm convinced of my vote. Pretty sure this is gonna flip scum roleblocker. Pointing out lurkers in a flailing attempt to deflect the inevitable lynch is also suspicious.

I will say that SGR is acting pretty scummy.

[LimMePls]

And if nhammen flips Town Roleblocker???

The one to hammer will surely die next day phase.

Am I the only one who thinks this post is incredibly scummy? Eager to setup a day 2 mislynch MS?

[LimMePls]

IIRC = If I recall correctly
ITT = In this thread (I'm guessing on this one).

http://www.muller-godschalk.com/acronyms.html#I should help with most, although ITT wasn't in there.

[LimMePls]

You might want to look at this article.
The second section under "Mafia Masons", which makes this a possibility, although unlikely.

And I thought my claim would solve the confusion.

*SIGH*

Apparently Vezo isn't the only one who has logic = suck.

Try to follow along SSBF, I'll explain this as slowly and fully as I can.

The mod told the monks that those in their monk groups are not werewolves. Vezo is in the monk group, therefore Vezo cannot be a werewolf.

The mod told the masons that those in their mason groups are not mafia. Vezo is in the mason group, therefore Vezo cannot be mafia.

This game has two scum groups, the werewolves and the mafia. Vezo cannot be a mafia. Vezo cannot be a werewolf. Therefore Vezo CANNOT BE SCUM.

If you're still confused I can't help you. I only pray to god you're still in school. And you need to go to your teachers, smack them upside the head, and demand that they actually do their job.

[LimMePls]

I thought Chronopie was scum before the nhammen wagon. I support that wagon. I'll move if I'm convinced its the superior wagon, but nhammen has yet to convince me he isn't deserving of a lynch.

@Vi You left the nhammen wagon because of AtE plus his pointing out lurkers? Isn't attacking lurkers like scum 101? They make easy targets because people disapprove of lurkers by policy (LynchAllLurkers) and they don't defend themselves.

[LimMePls]

MS strikes me as scum. Just sayin'.

[LimMePls]

@Leafsnail I kinda agree, I'm not convinced Vi is town.

[LimMePls]

Vezopiraka is still showing no sign of logic.

For one, while I certainly am in the camp of those who criticize Vezo's logic, he has actually made a couple of good posts since the big "my mason/monk buddies must be scum" snafu. I'm not sure what you mean by "still" showing no sign of logic. Care to explain better Sevis? Even a quote of what you perceive as bad logic would be useful.

I'm half-way done with ISOs, and so far, Midnight stood out when I was reading, but I can't figure out why.

What the hell does this mean?

Dr. Robotnik's hopping has been noted before. He seems to be mostly targeting VIs. His list of suspects, other than SSBF and daniel, includes LMP -- who, although he certainly isn't a VI, is new. Doesn't look all too good.

Vote: Dr. Robotnik

, at least until I can finish re-reading.

So you think Dr. Robotnik is scummy because he is only targeting VI-ish players? What about a player who only votes easy targets and makes strange posts that look like they are saying something without actually saying anything? I think those are more worthy of votes.

Unvote
Vote: Sevis

Pretty sure the nhammen wagon is going nowhere, although I'm still not convinced he isn't scum. I like this vote better for now.

[LimMePls]

I think this conversation has been enlightening.

Unvote: Leafsnail
Vote: Timeater (L-12)
Because SSBF won't do it do it do it, and this wagon really needs to happen, and nobody wants to vote Sevis for some reason.

LOL! See my latest post. Then come join the wagon. We have cake.

[LimMePls]

Its not that you target someone less scummy, its that you pick an easy target, a lurker who won't defend himself and has about 0 chance of getting a serious wagon on him. You get to look tough without being tough.

Keep posting Sevis. I'm feeling better about this vote with each sentence.

[LimMePls]

^^ [sarcasm]This post is really insightful, helpful, and is certainly scumhunting. I approve 100% [/sarcasm]

[LimMePls]

Mod: I will be V/LA from Wednesday the 26th to Tuesday the 1st for Memorial Day weekend. I will check in as often as I'm able.

[LimMePls]

@Dr. Robotnik: So after massive lurking, all you've got is unvote a player who hasn't posted in 3 or 4 days, and an unbolded FOS of Timeater? Do you plan on scum hunting at all this game?

FOS: Dr. Robotnik

I still like my vote, but 707 does nothing to change my scum read on Dr. Robotnik.

[LimMePls]

@Pomegranate What exactly do you want from us? Weren't you V/LA? Have you caught up? If so, have you made any exciting posts? Can you give me post numbers? I'd be happy to comment tomorrow if I have a spare minute.

Maybe because the crazy long deadlines + unwillingness to commit + strict activity rules is making this game a merry-go-round of suspicion without the faintest hint of an actual lynch happening.

QFT

[LimMePls]

This is likely my last post before V/LA. I still like my post. Sevis' most recent post makes it even better. Why is it so important for Sevis to impress Vi? Is Sevis doing that because he thinks it'll get him unlynched? How about countering the arguments against you instead?

Sevis is likely scum. Askbob probably is too. Nhammen is still on my radar.

I hope when I get back that the scum hunting has been very productive.

[LimMePls]

Alright, this is for realz my final post before V/LA.

I still think Sevis is scum, but I agree with Faraday, this day is lasting WAY to long. I think CP is scum. He has a big wagon, and I support his lynch. Therefore

Unvote
Vote: Chronopie
FOS: Sevis

Good luck guys, I'll check in when I can.

[LimMePls]

Vote:Sevis

Because Vi had strong scum vibes from him. And after ISOing Sevis. I agree.

Also GL SGR ^^

Vote: Midnight's Sorrow

I know its WIFOM, but seems interesting that you would immediatlely point to Sevis. Isn't that what the scum would want us to think? Did you one time mention that you might agree about Sevis D1? We talked about it for pages, and I'm sure you posted during that time. Why do you wait till now to go after Sevis?

@nhammen who was blocked? Maybe they were the killer that didn't get a kill?

[LimMePls]

Don't we have to at least allow for the possibility of a doc save? nhammen could have gotten targeted as a claimed PR and someone could have doc saved him for the same reason. If we do lynch SGR and he flips town, we can't assume that means nhammen scum, and if SGR flips scum we can't assume nhammen town. Just saying.

That said, there is some pretty scummy vibes from SGR anyways.

Unvote
Vote: SGR
HOS: Midnight's Sorrow

I'm getting the feeling that Timeater is Jester.

@MS My case against you wasn't for active lurking, and I wasn't band wagoning. Don't pretend those were the only reasons for your wagon. You are really scummy.

[LimMePls]

@MS I've already said what in my post voting you. 896 if you're too lazy to find it yourself.

You immediatly lept onto Sevis. Your argument is really crap. Massively bad logic to assume that Vi NK = Sevis scum. The only thing I can figure is that you were pushing for a mislynch on Sevis thanks to the Vi NK.

That case is neither wagoning nor accusing you of active lurking. So now you've also misrepresented the case against you. Can you get any scummier?

[LimMePls]

@MS: No, I definitely still find Sevis scummy. I just find your immediate attempt to pin the NK on him plus your D1 play scummier.

[LimMePls]

PPL please ISO MS. He is clearly scum.

[LimMePls]

And again you misrepresent, like you have everyone who says anything to you this game. I still think Sevis is scumy, and I said that just a post or two ago. You either are unable or incapable of listening to people.

Anytime anyone makes any hint of a case against you, the only thing you can do is deflect and misrepresent what they say.

You are SCUMMIER than Sevis. I still think Sevis is likely scum.

I can't believe your wagon isn't bigger. You are now scummier than SGR. Congratulations.

Unvote
Vote Midnight's Sorrow

[LimMePls]

Is it just me, or is MS only willing to post rambling setup speculation posts, fluff, and completely crappy/scummy defenses of himself? MS do you plan to hunt scum at all, or spend the rest of the D2 trying to speculate on how many NKs were stopped last night?

I think there were 6 NKs last night, but 5 of them were stopped. Wait, no, I'm pretty sure it was 7...

@SC I agree with your assessment of the nhammen/SGR situation, but I'd like to hear from SGR or his replacement.

[LimMePls]

Completely back from V/LA. I haven't seen anything to change my FOS or vote. I'll check in tomorrow.

[LimMePls]

I do not get the foilist accusations at all. He defends himself when attacked, and then scum hunts. He doesn't OMGUS and he doesn't fail at his defense. I also think its fascinating that he says Parama doesn't make one logic based argument against him, he asks Parama to provide one, and all Parama can do is

I can quote any of my cases and I'd succeed at your challenge. So go away, scum. You're trying to get me off your case through any means necessary. It ain't working.

If this is true, and you really want to prove him wrong, why not do it? Sounds more to me like you are unwilling/unable to provide him with one post like he asks. I don't think Parama is scum, but I do think he tunnels way to hard.

Fail scum is fail. He is tunellvisioning on parama and has one no scum hunting at all. He just tried to defend himself. Very scummy thing to do.

What are you talking about? First off, if tunneling is scum, then you and Parama are both guilty. Second, are you saying defending yourself is "very scummy thing to do"? That seems insane. Last, foilist scum hunts just two posts above you.

@Socrates:

1) Have we played together before?

2) Can you link me to the previous game you played with Parama?

Looks to me like he is trying to get a better read on Parama and Socrates. What exactly do you want from him?

@foilist13 Do you think Parama is scum? If so, why. If not, why not. If you've answered this question, I'd be happy for a post number or quote so you don't have to type it all again.

I think roleblocker is a fairly unlikely role for town to have. I also don't like the way nhammen gave his report and instantly voted SGR.

While I don't agree about roleblocker being a fairly unlikely role for town to have, I do agree that nhammen was way to aggresive with his vote on SGR. Almost like he was desperate to put the attention anywhere other than on himself. nhammen didn't even consider for a moment that there could be other reasons for one less kill.

Unvote
Vote: nhammen
HOS: Midnight's Sorrow
FOS: Sevis

I still think MS is scum, but that appears to be going nowhere. Grats on your masterful deflection MS. I'd really like to hear from Sevis or his replacement.

[LimMePls]

The masons confirmed each other as masons, and vezo is confirmed as a monk as is lynchmepls who confirmed him. That means we have monks and either a monk mason, or a monk/mafia. It is unlikely that there would be monks and not masons, and I doubt the mafia would out their whole team D1

There is 0 chance based on the way that the whole debacle played out that vezo is monk/mafia. I think it is really strange for you to even propose it.

[LimMePls]

This game only serves to further support my theory that people don't actually read the cases other people put out.

Who among the Foilist defenders can actually say what my case on him is without looking back at it?

I can't. I ISO'd you to reread your case, and I have to say it's pretty damn good. 1104 is very logical. However, I think in 1108 foilist13 answers your questions against him very well. You haven't responded to that post, so I'm wondering whether you are just going to ignore it and keep voting him, or challenge any parts you disagree with.

[LimMePls]

@nhammen You said you blocked SGR in 952 and you voted him right then. You didn't admit to other possibilites until 984, and only after others pointed out that there were other explanations for missing NK besides your RB.

@Socrates Start with post 896 and read the next few pages. Note that we had considerable discussion about Sevis on D1 and not once did MS ever even hint that he thought Sevis might be scummy. Then, after Vi NK he immediately leaps on Sevis. When I point this out, rather than offer any sort of credible defense, he instead tries to make the issue about me "dropping" Sevis. His attack on Sevis was weaksauce. Add 951, where he claims the whole wagon on him is only bandwagoning, adding yet another complete misrepresentation to his already considerable list of them.

For that matter, just ISO MS. The whole thing is scummy.

[LimMePls]

1. nhammen
2. MS
3. Sevis

[LimMePls]

@vezo no I can't. The best case I've seen on him is 1104, and he responded well in 1108. If you want us to see how scummy he is, could you actually try and produce a logical well thought out case against him? I've seen nothing from you on foilist13 except parroting Parama.

[LimMePls]

Am I willing to what? And I don't think foilist13 needs someone to defend him, he has done it fine himself.

[LimMePls]

SSBF: You are misrepping Faraday I think. Go back and look, he votes SGR before nhammen says he targetted SGR. Faraday then makes a post congratulating himself for voting correctly.

This is one of the reasons I find nhammen scummy. He claims to have RB'd one of the people getting suspicion early in D2 before he announces who he RB'd. Seemed really convenient.

[LimMePls]

Sorry guys, couldn't post yesterday. Out of the past few pages of argueing, I'm not seeing a person who really comes across as "scummyist"

So what you are saying is you're pretty much worthless? Can you even be bothered to reply to Timeater's "top 3 suspects" question? It would literally take a three line post.

[LimMePls]

@MS Sevis is likely scum. You are also likely scum on the other team, killing Vi and then leaping at the opportunity to blame it on Sevis. I'm guessing this is the logic you and your scum buddies came up with when selecting Vi, only they were clever enough not to bring it up.

I don't much like 1233. I don't know if it qualifies as AtE, but saying we shouldn't lynch you because we'll need to apologize seems scummy to me. If you are town, that is why we shouldn't lynch you. Worrying about "self flagellation" should not be our concern.

I think our best lynch today is nhammen or Socrates. The question is do we trust the role blocker claim or not. Currently I'm in the camp of not trusting the claim, but 1233 concerns me.

Cos that doesn't apply to foilest/leaf/lmp/askbob/dryfit/unsight etc etc etc

Are you saying every time I post I sound scummy? I don't ever one time recall you claiming I was scum. If you have a case, I'd love to hear it so I can defend myself. I don't much like being generically lumped in with players you find scummy with no chance to defend myself.

[LimMePls]

What you basically said is that you think him likely scum, so, why are you not voting him?? Do you want to keep him alive? If so,for what reason?

I think I've answered this question at least 3 times. Let me try again. I THINK YOU ARE SCUMMIER. Not to mention he is going to get replaced and I'd love to hear from his replacement, AND I think Socrates or nhammen should be our lynch today. Do you even read anyone elses posts if they aren't specifically directed at you? I already said all of this.

You need to stop hiding behind your monk status dude(You don't really bring it up, but come on...its practically seeping out of everyone of your posts >.>) and start putting your vote where your mouth was and still seems to be.

Are you serious? Other than any post I make to clarify to people who ask about the whole Mason/Monk debacle, I've never one time "hid behind my monk status". I'd love for you to show me where I do that. I can't defend against your perception that it is "seeping" out of my posts. What does that even mean?

I can't for one second think that a Night
phase was enough to make you drop your previous case on Sevis because of fear of WIFOM. Give me a fucking break.

You seem like a child with his fingers in his ears going "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU". I've already answered your questions about the Sevis case multiple times. Read this post again if you still don't get it. You jumped on Sevis because of the Vi night kill. That is a terrible reason to suspect him. It discounts any of a number of possibilities, not the least of which is that the scum killed Vi simply because he is a good player.

I stand by my accusation on Sevis yesterday. Your actions today, coupled with your day 1 play just make you even scummier.

How many times am I going to have to say this?

[LimMePls]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

[LimMePls]

@SSBF Apparently I

AM

taking crazy pills. Please show me where I misrepresented anyone especially MS, or where I tunneled MS D1. I disagreed about MS over what I said, as he kept saying that I was saying daniel was scum. I wasn't saying that, I was saying that if there was a Mason/WW daniel was most likely to be it. We argued about that, but I certainly didn't "tunnel". I don't even remember if I voted him, but if I did, it didn't stay that way for long. Compare this to Parama, and I don't know how you can call that tunneling. Please, for my sanity, show me where I misrepresented MS. I'll either apologize for the misrep, or explain why it wasn't one. The last thing I want to be is a hypocrite.

I also think your Mason/Monk "mini series" was a complete waste of time. Almost distracting. I don't think any of the Masons or Monks are anywhere near as scummy as other players in the game, and I think your efforts would have been much better used on those players. And you calling me a newbie makes me laugh.

[LimMePls]

@MS Sevis is likely scum. You are also likely scum on the other team, killing Vi and then leaping at the opportunity to blame it on Sevis. I'm guessing this is the logic you and your scum buddies came up with when selecting Vi, only they were clever enough not to bring it up.

You seriously think NKing Vi incriminates sevis that much? Or that anybody else would think that? Wow...

Sigh... apparently I am taking crazy pills. This is the opposite of what I'm saying. MS is the one who switched his vote to Sevis after the NK, and I attacked him for it. For my case on Sevis please read my iso, particuarly D1.

Is this really that hard to follow?

[LimMePls]

Yes, I do think he is saying that, and I do think it is wrong. Want to see why I think he is saying that?

I refuse to throw away a night kill as possible evidence because of WIFOM tendencies.

And its equally bad logic to not think Vi NK=/=Sevis scum. And no; I did not immediately leap on Sevis.

In addition, MS claims to not immediately leap on Sevis, yet his very first post of D2 is:

Vote:Sevis

Because Vi had strong scum vibes from him. And after ISOing Sevis. I agree.

Also GL SGR ^^

How much more immediate can it get than his first post of that day? It was even the 5th overall post of the day. Why not ask some probing questions of Sevis? Why not discuss the case from the day before? Once it's clear we're getting a Sevis replacement, why not wait to hear from Sevis replacement? If all he is going off is the case from D1, then why wasn't he with us on D1? Why wait for the NK and the WIFOM to be convinced? Both MS' play and his WORDS say that he is basing his case on the Vi NK.

[LimMePls]

I feel like gouging my eyeballs out. The whole argument with MS day one was about me saying that of the three of the masons, daniel was most likely to be scum.

Lets try this again:

Saying X is the most likely to be scum out of X Y and Z does not have to mean you think X is scummy, it can mean that you think Y and Z are pro town. That was my point. I thought Seraphim was pro-town based on his claim to clear up the vezo situation. I knew Vezo was town because of my knoweldge of him being Monk/Mason. Therefore, all I said, was that

IF

there was scum amongst the three, it was daniel. This was, IIRC before I made my monk claim, and I was still trying to hint at it, without having to make the claim. Since it was still a giant cluster fuck and vezo went ahead and full claimed Monk/Mason, I then claimed to clear it up.

1. You just misrep me there.. I accused you of tunneling Midnight's Sorrow Day 2, not Day 1.

How on earth can I be tunneling MS day 2, I'm not even voting him! We must have completely different opinions on what tunneling is. I see tunneling someone as focusing on them to the exclusion of anyone else. Clearly I'm not doing that, as I'm working on the nhammen/Socrates situation as well as MS. For an example of tunneling, see Parama.

@Experience players: Am I wrong about "tunneling"? I'm engaging in talk with nhammen, Socrates, and MS. Is this really tunneling? I need some help hear, I feel like I'm arguing with idiots.

@Socrates: He isn't dead because most of us feel that we need to clear up the nhammen/YOU situation. That said, I'd really like Shrinehime to answer to the charges leveled at Sevis. He is definitely on my scum list, and I would not be opposed to a lynch on him. I just don't think leaving nhammen/YOU unresolved is good for us, since we'll just spend D3 going over this all again.

[LimMePls]

If you even bother to look at the time stamps you'd know it wasn't immediate >.< I can read pretty fast, but hell to the freaking no can I read that many pages in a *Snap* like that... It was a hour or two.

Stop saying I immediately jumped on it because of my first post being my vote on him.

THAT

is stupid. Sorry~

So you couldn't do the reread during the night like I did? You had to wait for day 2 to start to do a reread? Why is that, where you busy in the night time? If so, with what?

[LimMePls]

That said, I'd really like Shrinehime to answer to the charges leveled at Sevis.

um.

Q:

Why have we waited until Sevis is unable to defend himself to suddenly bring up these accusations?

It's terribly convenient.

R U JK? Read my ISO, I've asked Sevis plenty of questions. We were waiting for you because he stopped posting.

Unvote
Vote: Shrinehme

[LimMePls]

Alright, I'm officially not continuing this discussion with MS anymore. If you guys can't see the scum by now, then I don't know what else to say. He is either VI or scum.

Serial really needs that cop investigation.

Explain please?

[LimMePls]

You are hysterical. Arguing with a brick wall makes me the fool. Imagine that, I'm not the only player who has argued with you to frustration. There's only one common denominator in both those situations... you.

[LimMePls]

I'm as calm as bee buzzing in the wind on a Spring/Summer's day dude.

You just need to stop putting the Hardball into play and not finishing up with it.

Coward.~

Do town players really taunt like this? I say I think he is scum, he gets hyper defensive and aggressive. I say I'm gonna drop it, and he calls me a coward. I mean WHAT THE FUCK!?!?

I've asked this a number of times, but I don't seem to be getting any responses.

EVERYONE: AM I TAKING CRAZY PILLS?

[LimMePls]

Despite that, what I'm trying to accomplish is this. I want to try to scruntize the scummy people first. If that fails, we go to people with a current null read. If that fails as well, our last choice is to pick out the claimed roles. This will be difficult to accomplish, I know, but it can be done.

If you want to scrutinize the scummy people first, why did you waste a whole day on that Mason/Monk review? Why not spend that time scrutinizing the scummy players, since you claim that you want to do that first?

And I say "waste" because I believe that almost nothing useful came from that.

[LimMePls]

Why is Unsight so obv town? And I don't know how comfortable I am with SC liking SSBF's town list and saying "Ok, I'm willing to go with this". Frankly it looks pretty bad to me.

2 posts before SSBF's list, SC says he can't find enough obv town to do it, and suddenly SSBF's post essentially saying "me, you and Unsight are" is enough to convince him? 1337 and 1341 stink.

FOS: SerialClergyman

[LimMePls]

I'm gonna go ahead and

FOS: SSBF

too, for 1345 and ignoring my question about what makes Unsight so obv town. In case it wasn't clear who I was addressing @SSBF Why is Unsight obv town?

SSBF's whole eagerly jumping with SC's 1337 remark about wanting a pro-town group just seems like scum trying to buddy town (or in SC's case maybe other scum group).

[LimMePls]

@SSBF Would you please answer my question I asked you.

I'll ask a third time: What makes you say Unsight is town enough to be in your club? I'm not saying Unsight is scum, but I have definitely not gotta an obv town read.

[LimMePls]

Why would scum even bother killing you? They can just kill the rest of them and single out you or someone else and say "hey, why isn't he dead yet?"

Can we please not give the scum ideas?

In unrelated news:

Unvote
Vote: Dr. Robotnik

Nacho's case was made of win.

[LimMePls]

HOT DAMN ALL CAUGHT UP

So, first things first.

I want this group of people that in some circles we would call the NEW BASTION OF DEATH:

Parama
Nacho
Serial
SSBF
Unsight
Socrates
LynchMePls

to pick A single target from this list which shall be called THE LIST OF THE DEAD WALKING:

Midnight's Sorrow
Shrinehime
Timeeater
Nhammen

And make them dead. Right now.

My vote under the raw needing to be the dead clause is MS. WHY WHY WHY did that wagon go away? Seriously now.

Nhammen wouldn't bother me as much if he had posted earlier in the day today than ahead of the game. However, want to know a secret? Gut says we're gonna see a town flip here but now is the time to deal with it because THIS ARGUMENT EVERY DAY IS NOT AWESOME.

Timeeater and Sevis mk2 I -really- better not even need to go into detail with.

OHH SNAP SPYREX YOU SAID YOU THINK MASONS ARE TOWN BUT THEY ARENT ON THE LIST

Nope. Not yet. Faraday WAS awesome but I need more Faraday to be sure. Vezo is town but mos def not awesome so.

I've got some secret more awesomes that need to play more and then can join the murder-brigade. They dont get to know who they are though.

And the fifth that isn't on the list for the mo because of replacement help is Nik. I liked Nik but I absolutely hate The Goat and if not for these other issues.

Foil isn't a bad lynch but not my favorite. The rest of the game I'd happily hang if it meant the above group was all that was left.

I think I'm in love.

Unvote
Vote: Midnight's Sorrow

[LimMePls]

@SSBF Isn't Spyrex already doing this, except without the crazy clutter that will be involved with close to 20 players all post 2-6 suspects and you spamming us with constant updates?

Spyrex's death list is fine enough, why derail it with? Do you disagree with his death list?

[LimMePls]

My point is, you are just adding way to much clutter. We need focus, and what you are doing is the opposite of that. 2-6 suspects from each person? We'll spend forever going round and round on that, as we have this whole day so far. I'm completely against your idea, it seems like a giant cluster **** waiting to happen.

[LimMePls]

Stale game is getting staler. Still a week to deadline.

[LimMePls]

Alright, as much as I want MS to DIAF, this is just too obvious.

Unvote
Vote: Shrinehme

Pack your bags Shrine scum, its time to go.

[LimMePls]

MS, your contributions cannot possibly be seen as "scum hunting". Attacking Sevis/Shrine because Vi and I scum hunted him out and Vi died is not scum hunting.

[LimMePls]

Observing that a slot is scum != scum hunting.

[LimMePls]

Oh apparently the MS wagon disappeared.

Gone, but not forgotten.

[LimMePls]

This game is in serious need of some action. If there is a day vig, you need to do something, cause this is ridiculous. We're at page 65 and we're on day 2. I've been in large theme games that are on day 6 before they hit page 60. If you are playing this game, and you aren't voting Shrine or Robotnik, you are seriously killing the game. It is tough to be enthusiastic about a game that is this mired down and doesn't have deadline for like another month.

Stale game is stale. Action please people.

[LimMePls]

Also, when ISO comes back, I need to ISO Parama, because I realized that I don't know why Parama suddenly found Unsight Town. I know it happened about a week ago or so, but I can't remember why.

ISO is still here, its just a bit clumsier to use. I'm sure they'll fix it, but until they do you can still ISO. Just go to the bottom, select the drop down box for Sort By and select author. Then click go. It will sort all of the posts in the game by poster's name alphabetically, and each posters posts will be in post time order. So you then just navigate to the page where your ISO target starts posting (which takes a few clicks, but since it's alphabetic it shouldn't be that hard to find them) and then viola you are reading them ISO.

For instance, to ISO me, go Sort By Author and click go. Now I just start at page 1 and go through the pages about 5 at a time until I hit page 17, and I see Lowell is at the top of the page. Since Lowell is before LynchMePls alphabetically, but they are close, I just scroll down, and there I am. Start reading from there until LMP posts end. ISO complete!

Again, I know it isn't most efficient, but until they get ISO back up and running like we're used to, it'll have to do. Hope that helps.

[LimMePls]

Who is this BM guy? And who takes a user name that abbreviates to BM?

@Anyone who has played with BM: Is he as VI as I'm thinking he is, or is this just some clever ruse? Cause I'm pretty sure this game is way over its MAVI(TM).

*MAVI = Maximum Allowable VI

[LimMePls]

I'm new to forum mafia, so I'm still learning. I'm not sure what you mean by "cleaning up the town". I do think we need to get organized, because right now we're just spinning in circles getting nothing done.

I'd be happy to better answer your question once I understand exactly what you are asking.

I also think that if there is a day vig, they aren't doing their job.

[LimMePls]

Oh, then no. I want scum gone. I wanted MS gone cause he is scummy and I want Shrine gone because he is scummy. If they are bad players, then that is just a bonus. Lynching scum is much more important than lynching bad players.

I will say that given two potential lynches with roughly equal scummyness, I'd probably lynch the one that is lurkier/less helpful to the town.

[LimMePls]

Does anyone noticed that Midnight's Sorrow is tunneling Shrinehme now?

He's been tunneling him the whole freaking day, and you just now saw it?

Most of his posts recently has been dedicated to attacking him. His defense isn't that good either.

You're a little late to the party SSBF, but I'm glad you finally made it. We have hats, and cake. All the pie is gone though.

[LimMePls]

Haha this is all irrelevant as i have the strong feeling i will be lynched tomorrow.

BM

Wow. Just wow. This game is a cesspool of absolute idiocy. I thought Timeater's slot couldn't get worse. You and MS make me want to jump off a cliff. If I didn't want to build up finished games on this site and avoid a reputation of a flaker, I'd probably replace out of this game. It is absolutely absurd.

This game has been about as enjoyable as an unlimited supply of 1,000,000 punches in the face.

[LimMePls]

@Pom I've scum hunted for like 30 pages this day. I don't know what more you want from me. As I've said a dozen times now, there is nothing new to say until the game state changes. All we're doing is going around and around in circles. I'm sure I'll feel much more motivated when we've had a lynch.

It also seems fairly hypocritical for you to ask me to scum hunt. Do you ever have anything constructive to add to the game? Seems like all you do is pop in to say you are catching up or poke random questions at people that rarely have anything to do with scum hunting.

[LimMePls]

GG Scum. This game was massively frustrating. I was shocked town hung in as long as it did. By far this was the most dysfunctional town I've seen.

[LimMePls]

Good job to the mod, although the activity requirements made the revolving door pretty much guaranteed, and the revolving door made the game really tough to play.

IMO Vezo has been an absolute liability to every town I've seen him on. I don't say this to be mean, but I do want to point that out. If I were scum I would have left him alive too. If Vezo had been just about any other player in the game, as SpyreX points out, we would have had a pretty powerful team in the monks/masons. Alas.