Mafia 113: Mafia in Mendo ~ Game Over

[sirdanilot]

Hey guys, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm just going to pretend the game already started, I think that's what everyone should do. If I would want to vote, I'd just vote without it counting, then revote once the game officially starts.

Fonz I think that the stuff you said there is usually the best play (assuming town-alignment) but I am very much so against policy lynch so I refuse to 'sign the contract' so to speak.

I am not going to random vote, since I am very much against the 'joking phase' in early parts of the game. I would rather skip that shit and just cut right to the case (is that even a good expression lol, as you can see from my location I'm not a native english speaker).

starter question to all

:
1. anyone have any opinion on fonz about the stuff he proposed in post 12?
2. what is your previous experience (if this is your first game, state experience with chat, off-site and Face to Face mafia as well)

can't think of more at the minute. Anyway, for my experience, I've been playing a while so check my wiki. And as for fonz, I suppose it's mostly null that he proposes that stuff, but I don't like how is in favor of getting everyone to agree on a policy lynching method., However I have the idea this is playstyle rather than alignment but we'll see.

oh and question 2 is the same as bober's question but whatever

[sirdanilot]

Boberz dont bring meta of an ongoing game into this game. It's

against the rules

.

I can behave authoritarian as damn well as I please. Explain to me how it is scummy. Now.

1. how is leading town scummy?
2. Yes I am sitting on the fence here. It's very early game and I am not too sure what to make of Fonz' post. To be honest I am more leaning null than leaning towards it being a scum tell.

3. I contributed much more than most people in this thread. I cannot 'scumhunt' when there's only one contentful post in the entire damn thread.

[sirdanilot]

crossposted with diacria.

[sirdanilot]

diarcria, why do you think dramonic is scummy because of that post?

[sirdanilot]

Presume for a second that everyone agreed to this contract. What do you think the impact on the game would be?

the point is that we CAN'T know what happens in this game, since it's an open setup.
A more important point: Discussion about when and when not to do what detracts from the scumhunting we have to do. An example is this exact discussion we are having; its getting anti town.

Fonz what do you think about boberz, you have said only one sentence

[sirdanilot]

about him.

[sirdanilot]

its a closed setup, sorry

[sirdanilot]

fonz, do you not agree this discussion detracts from scumhunting?

I'm not trying to avoid it though, I just want to know your opinion on that.

[sirdanilot]

@deer:

In the game it will also happen that not everyone is here (replacements) so that is hardly a reason not to start already. The people who have yet to confirm will jump right into the real game, so that we are doing the theory crap etc. right now is only a good thing. Of course if they have anything to say about that matter they can, but I am not too fond of theory discussion myself.

The Fonz, why do you think me prevoting a player that I find scummy means I am the sort of player who will screw things over later in the game???

nice misrep, he didnt say anything about prevoting, rather he referred to that you think I am scummy while you didn't say anything about Fonz. I worry about this too.

I had better get this on record, I didnt really suspect sirdan I just thought I could stretch more points on him than anyone else at the time. I am trying to lead by example and scumhunt rather than

just

talk about theory.

Alright, this is not the way to go about things. Scumhunting is good, but if you are going to come up with Bullshit excuses like this to throw out bullshit cases and get away with it, you are going to get voted real fast, boberz.

Pressuring without having a real solid suspicion yet is fine (it's scumhunting, which is good) but you shouldn't PURPOSEFULLY throw a bullshit case.

I think looking at specific players is more important than theory discussions.

yeah. Agree.

[sirdanilot]

In fact I'm going to

prevote: boberz

for that above.

Can you understand that as scum, it's also really good to find excuses to make bullshit cases? Since that is what scum does. Can you understand that as town, you just can't do bullshit cases?

[sirdanilot]

great flavour, Ythill

vote: boberz

For Real.

Well Fonz, why would I as town agree to sign a 'contract' that says: 'you have the right to be lynched if you do one of these three things'. I think that IF I would do one of these things, I would not want to have scum (or others for that matter) vote me but HAVE AN EXCUSE: 'fonzie said we can vote him!'

That is really what I mean. What you are doing is, you are already giving people an excuse to vote selfvoters, fakeclaimers etc. Sure,

usually

they deserve to be lynched. But you can't make a policy of it. Policy voting gives scum excuses and is detrimental to scumhunting.
This is why I do not want to be committed to such a 'contract'.

I am really tired right now, so I might not have phrased this very well or replied to all of your points.

[sirdanilot]

Oh...looks like I might have to read the pregame. GUYS, WHY YOU HAVE TO TALK SO MUCH IN PREGAME!

Just read it and post.

Stuff to look at: what do you think of Boberz?

[sirdanilot]

Oh, I got ninja'd

I agree with sirdanilot. Given that the town can lose halfway through day 2 if enough things go wrong, we should make sure every lynch counts.

Jack, what you mean by the lose halfway through day 2 thing?

It was either in my pm or the OP.

Anyway,

vote:Nicodemus

What the hell? Why did you just softclaim something?

Is the nicodemus vote random? Why did you elect to random vote at this stage

just finished reading the thread
i agree to the policy based upon roleclaiming, especially day 1. I am avidly against d1rcing.

(1)i would really like to put the fos on sirdanilot. of all the people so far, he appears the scummiest to me as well. (2)perhaps it is because i am about as new as horror,(3) but i'm AT LEAST just letting you know that you have a very scummy vibe to you regardless of your affiliation.

deer would be my second candidate at the moment, (4)and if voting for sirdanilot does not pick up traction or if he appears to be town in later posts, i will consider shifting my vote to someone else

vote: sirdanilot

1. Okay, he finds me scummy. Why is the 'as well' part in there?
2. Perhaps you find me scummy because you're new. I don't know. What is your accusation?
3. Uh I have a scummy vibe to me (explain please) regardless of my affiliation? So even if I am town I have a scummy vibe?
How does that make me scum?
4. "If nobody joins the sirdan wagon I'll shift my vote to the biggest wagon right now.

Right now there's only 1 thing that's really sticking out to me as scummy: Post 23.
(1)I almost see this as a bit of an overreaction. (2)Number 3, however, was probably the only thing I found scummy in pregame. We're on page 1 in the confirmation stage, and you're claiming you can't scumhunt because only 1 other post contained content that you could use? Seems odd to me.

Vote: sirdanilot

dissecting again:
1. almost? not quite? Also psst, here's a new one for you: overreaction/overdefensiveness is not a scum tell.
2. to clarify, this was about me saying there was only one contentpost at the time (which was true). Why does it seem odd to you that I cannot scumhunt when there is only one post? Why does it make me scum?

Hi all, should've posted earlier....

As of yet, I haven't seen any posts that I'd consider scumtells.

I agree to the contract Fonz posted, too.

Also, I highly doubt that people can scumhunt effectively while we're still in the confirmation stage. Most people haven't even POSTED by then, and how are you supposed to figure out someone's alignment if they haven't posted?

Why are we voting Deer? Could somebody please summarize the case against him?

No we cannot figure out the alignment of those who haven't posted, but if you had actually read the thread, you would have known I said people aren't posting even when the game is ongoing too, due to flaking etc. We have to hunt with what we have. Besides, the game has started now.

I find it very very alarming that you cannot find any scum tells while there have been plenty. We are in page 5 and there has been content since page 1.

vote: mehplusrawr

I strongly urge you to go start scumhunting now, even more so if you don't find anything on first sight.

[sirdanilot]

unvote, vote furcolow

That's an awful lot of waffling to vote sirdanilot on essentially a gut feeling.

Why didn't you post anything about his 'case' earlier? I don't like how you ignore it, then parrot when someone calls him out on it.

[sirdanilot]

Ignore it? I didn't SEE it, until you quoted it.

<other post>
Oh yeah, and how is voting someone different, for a different reason 'parroting?'

Heheh, why should I believe that you didn't see it (you did post between his post and my case on him, so you could have)? And why are you not reading the thread properly and paying attention? I don't buy it for one bit.
And I said parrotting because it seems you based your vote off my refutal of Furc's post rather than the post itself, although I indeed didn't vote for furc.

I'm wondering why you're TRYING to scumhunt on page 1 in the confirmation stage, knowing full well that many people haven't posted, thus limiting your pool of people to read... this could either be town, hoping that scum posted early, or scum attempting to appear town by pretending to scumhunt early on. As a gut feeling, I'm leaning more towards the second.

No we cannot figure out the alignment of those who haven't posted, but if you had actually read the thread, you would have known I said people aren't posting even when the game is ongoing too, due to flaking etc. We have to hunt with what we have. Besides, the game has started now.

quote formatting altered because this separates your two points against me

Why do you not look at boberz, who tried this as well? Since when is scumhunting a scum tell? And read my quote up there.

I refuse to continue this discussion any further, because you aren't bringing up any arguments and you are ignoring mine. But it seems you fled away from the case on me already...

I find it very very alarming that you cannot find any scum tells while there have been plenty. We are in page 5 and there has been content since page 1.
vote: mehplusrawr

This bugs me a little bit... because he hasn't found anything particularly scummy, then he's scum? Explain please.

Why can't you see it? It's not that he doesn't find anyone scummy, it's that he ISN'T SCUMHUNTING AND IS USING NOT FINDING ANYONE SCUMMY AS AN EXCUSE. SCUMHUNTING 101.

case and vote on furc

copying much? The same question goes to you: why did you not react to this post immediately when you saw it (you DID see it as you posted between furc and me).

It's true I don't remember any scum hunting from boberz. But I don't especially get a scum feel from that last post.

unvote, vote:sirdanilot

He seems insincere. I'll be watching :stare:

ahahahahahahahahahaahahahhahahahahahaahahahahah

you didn't react to my point (softclaiming) at all and now respond with a non-case (insincere)?

You are ridiculous. You NEED to explain your softclaiming now (wether it was softclaiming in the first place, not claiming your role mind you). You also need to explain your 'case' on me.

unvote, vote JACK

scum: Jack (awaiting response)
mehplusrawr)

[sirdanilot]

[quote="MehPlusRawr"

I like basing my scumtells off more than one piece of evidence. I have indeed found things that look, but not enough of them for me to want to lynch someone.[/quote]
can you please point out the stuff you did find?

if you can't find anything worth lynching someone over, then why are you not even looking for it for example by questioning people ?

I didn't softclaim anything, it's common knowledge.

burden of proof is with you. explain. I'm not going to unvote you if you keep throwing shit into the thread without explaining. While you are at it you can either explain your vote on me or drop it.

[sirdanilot]

mehplusrawr, two practical things:

1. Get an avatar please.
2. Use quote tags. like this:

Code: Select all

[quote="PersonYouWantToQuotedInQuotes"]quote[/quote]

Okay, Sirdan. You say there have been plenty of scumtells. Please list those "plenty of scumtells". Who are you currently voting for?

I just asked you this, and now you are choosing not to answer but ask the same question back?

I DON'T like lynching town. Obviously, scum prefer to lynch townies. If I'm going to lynch somebody, I'd like to be pretty sure that they're scum. One odd post doesn't necessarily indicate scum, several odd posts combine indicates scum. If somebody posts something weird, protects somebody else, and lurks, then I'd say they're scum. If somebody says something only slightly out of the ordinary, especially when I don't know how they usually play, then I'll note it, but not consider it a scumtell. Kthx?

I am not asking you to vote. I am asking you to state the 'odd stuff' (e.g. potentially scummy/scummy) that you noticed. Making a case =/= lynching. In fact, voting =/= lynching per se.

in this quote, I fixed the quote tags for you.

Now, as for the scummy posts I've seen made...

Let's look at the ones by you. You've made most of them.

"3. I contributed much more than most people in this thread. I cannot 'scumhunt' when there's only one contentful post in the entire damn thread. "

Later, in response to my

"As of yet, I haven't seen any posts that I'd consider scumtells."

you said

"No we cannot figure out the alignment of those who haven't posted, but if you had actually read the thread, you would have known I said people aren't posting even when the game is ongoing too, due to flaking etc. We have to hunt with what we have. Besides, the game has started now.

I find it very very alarming that you cannot find any scum tells while there have been plenty. We are in page 5 and there has been content since page 1.
vote: mehplusrawr

I strongly urge you to go start scumhunting now, even more so if you don't find anything on first sight. "

I said in effect the same thing that you did, so then you told me I was wrong? That's a bit of a contradiction. If I say what you said, and I'm wrong, then you said something wrong. In effect, you're accusing yourself of being scum. That's a pretty weird way to play.

Ahahahahahahah. How is that a contradiction? On PAGE ONE I said there was only one post so I could not scumhunt. When I accused YOU of not scumhunting we were already at like what, page 4 or page 5 or so. Plenty happened in the meantime.

This is an absolutely HORRIBLE attempt at making a bullshit case on me. I can't really see this as newbie town at all. I am keeping my vote on you, because you are obviously trying to force a case on me and you still didn't really scumhunt.

I've also seen that you've been acting strangely aggressive, in posts like 23 and 53.

Being that you're telling me to vote on little evidence, presumably because you're scum who wants to lynch townies, I'm voting for you. Vote: Sirdanilot

I wasn't telling you to vote, and aggressiveness isn't a scum tell.

[sirdanilot]

ebwop

This is an absolutely HORRIBLE attempt at making a bullshit case on me. I can't really see this as newbie town at all.

I am keeping my vote on you

, because you are obviously trying to force a case on me and you still didn't really scumhunt.

Oh woops, I actually forgot that I don't have my vote on you.

There are so many suspects now: jack, mehplusrawr, perhaps furcolow. I currently think mehplusrawr is the most likely, yet I have my vote on jack for a reason so I am going to contradict myself here (OH SNAP!!!! STOP THE PRESSES!!!! OH MY!!!!!!!) and not change my vote.

[sirdanilot]

if you lynch me though, i'm going to be townie. i really don't mind, as at least we will have all of our blue roles left if i'm lynched.

Is this a Vanilla Town claim? What do you mean with 'green roles' and 'blue roles'? My guess is that blue roles are power roles?

I really really don't like softclaiming and rolespeculation like this. You are also going against fonz' policy, but I don't agree with that (which doesn't mean I won't vote you, by the way).

I didn't softclaim anything, it's common knowledge.

burden of proof is with you. explain. I'm not going to unvote you if you keep throwing shit into the thread without explaining. While you are at it you can either explain your vote on me or drop it.

You just haven't thought about it enough. It's in the OP.

I don't think you're sincere. I guess you aren't a gut player?

Point me where in the OP. I am telling you to show me, yet you keep refusing. I see no reason to stop voting you until you show me.

Sure, town can have gut, but it's anti town because scum CAN be caught out while explaining their votes (non-gut) but CANNOT be caught out if 'gut' is generally deemed an acceptable reason. This gives scum an advantage in a meta wherein GUT is allowed. Therefore, we should NOT allow gut so I am not allowing it here. Explain it, or drop it.

[sirdanilot]

Fonz, see what you have done? Now people will vote furc and I am pretty damn sure he'll be lynched, but (assuming furc-town for a moment) WE WILL HARDLY GAIN ANY INFORMATION FROM IT WHATSOEVER BECAUSE IF I, OR ANYONE ELSE, WILL QUESTION PEOPLE VOTING FURC, THEYLL JUST SAY 'IT WAS JUST IN THE CONTRACT'.
Just look at this example:

I like what I see

Unvote
Vote: Fur

I can't do ANYTHING WITH IT. Because if I would question dramonic now, he'd just say 'fur violated the contract' and he'd be DAMN RIGHT.

Do you see now, Fonz, that your contract was complete bullshit and crap and anti-town? DO YOU SEE IT??? DO YOU SEE THAT POLICY LYNCHING CRAP CONTRACTS RUIN THE OPPORTUNITY TO LEARN FROM MISLYNCH????????

After this game you should REALLY consider to change your perception of mafia theory. But we're NOT GOING TO MAKE THINGS WORSE by discussing it to death in this game thread.

Thanks for reducing scum tells to null tells.

sorry, I'm just very pissed that exactly what I had foreseen happened.

[sirdanilot]

Scum often complain when gut voted for some reason. Makes no sense to me. They should be happy.

you still refuse to explain anything, meaning I will still keep the vote on you.

It's a bit hard with people like Furcolow around, but I'd like to urge people to

PRESSURE JACK

so he will start explaining things. He's been extremely anti town, when I have time I'll do a meta on him.

Fonz, I'll reply to you later.

[sirdanilot]

"PRESSURE JACK

e.g. vote him. seriously. he's not going to contribute at all otherwise

[sirdanilot]

Meh.

I will never assume my opponents are stupid

. It's not respectful. If furcolow has any intelligence greater than that of a walnut, he knew what he was doing.

Ever played newbie games? I'm pretty sure you did. I agree that letting newbies (or anyone) get away with scummy stuff because they are 'dumb' is usually not correct, but some things (like the famous WHY DONT WE NOLYNCH fallacy) do deserve this.

I am not yet sure on furc, though. (i guess that's what you wanted to hear?). I am waiting for his response. My gut doesn't at all say 'scum scum scum scum scum' right now to be honest.

I have had your mindset on zero-newbie-tolerance in the past, but it just doesn't win enough town games very often. You still have to distinguish between newbie scum and newbie town play, and newbie town play sometimes include dumb stuff like this, sadly.

My God. You are like the perfect storm of horrible mafia theory opinions. (1)Gut is a useful tool for finding scum, (2)and genuine gut feelings are very hard for scum to fake. Therefore, it's absolutely acceptable.

1 yes 2 no. if you have a gut feeling of someone, you know THEN is the time to make a case on them, or start asking questions. THAT's the purpose of gut. not just 'oh my gut says scum vote X'. it's TOO EASY FOR SCUM. and JACK is DOING IT.

caps

Clearly, THE POINT OF THE CONTRACT WAS TO STOP THINGS LIKE THIS HAPPENING IN THE FIRST PLACE. If someone claims vanilla out of the blue like this, they are likely to get lynched anyway. All the contract does is remove the excuse that they didn't know what they were doing- IE, gives scum one less excuse to help them get away with advancing their win condition. PRECISELY because of the discussion you and I had in pregame, it is impossible for a townie to NOT KNOW that what Furcolow did was bad. Therefore, we must conclude that he was deliberately trying to harm the town.

fonz I agree with this part of your contract IE stopping newbies from acting stupidly. It's the REACTION of the BANDWAGONERS that worried me.

Answer me this: give me a believable scenario in which a townie, who has seen, and agreed to, a motion that he should not claim vanilla unless he's at L-1, and that that is lynchworthy behaviour, then does it. How does that make any sense?

newbie. newbie gets panicked, believes 'everyone thinks im scum'. newbie is 'sure' hes gonna get lynched. newbie claims. forgets about contract
or the newbie simply made a slip.

You may not want to see it, but this stuff happens. This is why I am not so sure of furc's alignment partly, and also because of, YES, GUT.

Do you see now, Fonz, that your contract was complete bullshit and crap and anti-town? DO YOU SEE IT??? DO YOU SEE THAT POLICY LYNCHING CRAP CONTRACTS RUIN THE OPPORTUNITY TO LEARN FROM MISLYNCH????????

No. Everyone who votes for him is exactly as culpable for his lynch as we would be if there was no contract.

how will you distinguish scum votin furc from town voting furc? since now there is ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT THAT FURC IS TO BE LYNCHED (among the followers of The Fonz) while otherwise there would be a slight sliver, which can shed light on who is scum.

And you, and jdodge, and shea, and all you other stupid assholes who think that town should just tolerate stupid newbies and justify their stupid behaviour and NOT DO THE FIRST FUCKING THING TO TRY AND PREVENT THEM HARMING THE TOWN should just fucking admit YOU WANT THE TOWN TO LOSE.

Clearly, either Furc is scum, or he is a level of stupid that could not realistically have been predicted.

I am not part of any 'clique' or theory group. I am not aware of the theoretical standpoints of jdodge, shea or anyone else of the scumchat clique. I explained my vision of newbies in this post. Stop saying stuff like 'asshole' (though you were probably agitated). Don't push me into a 'box'.

[sirdanilot]

yes fonz newbie scum could do that too (i never said furc cant be scum)

god I keep typing 'fonzie' instead of fonz

Anyway I am off now, I may post more content tomorrow (perhaps the long awaited case on jack, or a response to a furc post or so? who knows?)

[sirdanilot]

this game is just hilarious

In other news, there is this user called 'Jack'.

ISO 3: not only the infamous softclaim "It was either in my pm or the OP." but also random vote on nicodemus?

jack you NEED to explain this, since it might help town

Otherwisely, jack's post are ALL one-liners. I suppose it's play style. Because of this, I can't really spot any scum tells, but I also can't really find a lot of scumhunting, though he does it here and there.

conclusion: I can't read Jack. And perhaps the information he has is a bit too valuable to spill, but if I get into the assuming people are PR wifom stuff I'm not going to get out of it. What to do with non-contributing people you think are PR?

This post is entirely wifom and wishy washy ness because I simply have no clue what to do with this. Sorry...

[sirdanilot]

Hey bob, why don't you join the "Ignore Furco and let the Vig take care of him club!" too!.

FoS: Deer

Cool OMGUS, bro.

Do you really think it's cool?

I saw it jack, you omitted the "Jack still hasn't answered me, btw. " on purpose.

WHY? answer. now. if not I'm just going to vote you again.

*bullshit case on sirdanilot pointing out two of my posts which he supposedly found scummy but weren't in the slightest*

I'm not even going to reply to this. It didn't include any scum tells at all, so I'm just not going to. It seems very very forced (so forced you became tired by making all that shit up).

Note to all:

you do know you can search using THIS site, right? So look up the meta yourself if you need it.

[sirdanilot]

"if not I'm just going to vote you again.

why did I type that? I knew I had my vote on jack...

read: 'I'm not going to unvote you'

[sirdanilot]

I think mehplusrawr is scum. Refer to my posts for that.

unvote

vote: mehplusrawr

why? because I don't think I'm going to get anything useful out of jack anyway and I am not that sure if he's scum or not (if you read, you'd notice I said that before).

sorry if this seems like a forced vote change, but I've made up my mind now.

[sirdanilot]

posting in all my games:

sorry was away for easter will get post up soon

[sirdanilot]

wow lets all jump on the MPR wagon
hope hes red

why are you not on it then?

oh as for the case on deer, yeah now I am seeing it too. I'll glance over his iso

well yeah, he's up there in being scummy, though my gut isn't really alerting me at the moment (perhaps because I am tired).

sorry for not having much content in this post, I need to start up again after my absence....

[sirdanilot]

Unvote; vote: Sirdanilot

?

[sirdanilot]

yes jack I see it.

I still think mehplusrawr is scummy though

scum: mehplusrawr, deer, perhaps bv/furc (not too much of suspicion there yet though)

I am a bit torn whether to vote or not. since I'm extremely tired right now and cannot think straight, I'm going to wait until later when my mind is less clogged up.

[sirdanilot]

you only added my name because i'm voting for you

dude, nice job at misrepping and mixing up the order of events:

407: I question you over the supporting Meh's bandwagon vote
409: you vote me
413: I include you in my scum list.

so me including you in my scum list (which isn't even scummy to begin with, omgus much) can not possibly be a reason for you voting me. this makes me suspect you even more, furc.

[sirdanilot]

yep deer and bv for scum in this game

[sirdanilot]

and mehplusrawr.

[sirdanilot]

any idea if deer is at l-1 now or anything? since there have been countless of votes on him.

[sirdanilot]

Damon Gant, stop being on the 'non voting list'. Start scumhunting on who you think is so scummy not named mehplusrawr/deer, or really scumhunt anyone.

Yes this post doesn't contain much content, I have yet to catch up with the thread, so I only read the last page.

[sirdanilot]

posting in all my games: probably V/LA next two days (very small chance I post something on Tuesday, but do not count on it at all). Please don't replace me.

After this I should have a period of higher activity.

[sirdanilot]

Okay I replaced out of some games (I really really really hate doing that) so I will try to make best of this one.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 60#2218760

Damon's bs case. click on the link

Okay, I dissappeared/fell inactive because of out of game reasons.

My case on Mpr was NOT forced. However your case does look like it:

And this post above is mainly a defense against the points that M+R made against him.

(1)

Dissect it yourself, and see if you can find any reasons other than "He isn't scumhunting" in any of these posts, because I'm not seeing it

(2)

(and the scumhunting reason is weak in my opinion because it was still early in the game).

1. How is this not a valid reason? How is this not a good reason to vote someone? How is this not a reason to lynch someone?

1.Argh! your horrible,horrible, HORRIBLE case makes me cringe! Do you see how this isn't a valid case against me at all? Yes, the point in my case was 'mpr isn't scumhunting'. So WHAT? How does it make me scummy?
Do you understand that not scumhunting is VERY ADVANTAGEOUS FOR SCUM and very DISADVANTAGEOUS FOR TOWN?

Now, if you understand this (god save our souls if you don't), how is it unnatural/scummy for me to vote MPR over it?

And then you go on: (see 2)
2. Okay, so if it is not scummy to not-scumhunt in the early stages of the game (which is NOT the case, but hear me out), then how is it scummy that I made a case on someone that included only one point? In fact, it should make me even more towny by your crap logic because I put in even more effort than 'necessary'!

However, obviously it wasn't that early in the game at all, frickin' page 5. And whenever anything is available at all (in games that lack the useless joking phase this can be as early as page 2/3, like this game) scumhunting, or making attempts to start an environment in which scumhunting is possible, is town priority number one.

Because I found this case very incriminating on MPR, I lingered on it. My votes on jack were mostly pressure votes, to get him talking, but eventually I figured that with his playstyle it's not going to happen.

I cannot possible imagine why damon-gant [town] would find me scummy for this. Only because my case had only one, but very very very valid point? I just cannot wrap my head around it.

Damon-gant [scum] sounds a lot more easy to explain here, just looking to post a bullshit case (since he hadn't scumhunted in the entire damn game yet, and thought 'hmm it may be time now') and eliminate one of the more experienced players here. Call this omgus if you wish. But I have absolutely no idea how damon [town] could find me scummy for such a ridiculous crap reason. And THAT is why I am suspecting damon_gant now, not because he voted me (which is the definition of omgus).

And then he goes on to vote Jack, and then after that, goes back to M+R and tells us to look at his other posts for the reasons. I looked, and I found one, very weak reason. This isn't scumhunting, this is applying artificial pressure, and trying to look like they're scumhunting.

Same again. What if it WAS a valid case? Because, yaknow, it WAS. would it then be scummy still?

You are doing the same you are accusing me of. explantion:
sird. finding MPR scummy: 'he's not scumhunting'
damon finding sird. scumy: 'has only one point on MPR'

you do have a second, smaller point but it wasn't your main reason of voting me and by your (faulty) logic this shouldn't make your case much less scummy in the other people's eyes.

Since im on to something here, I will take a small look at your iso.

Okay, what I noticed in your first few posts: sure they don't really look scummy at first. But I encourage you all to look deeper. Do you see any scumhunting? No. Do you see him calling anyone scum? NO! He called a lot of people town. ISO post 1 does contain him finding boberz strange, but no accusation.

ISO 6 things get started in damon's mind. I will quote a part of it for easy reference.

I'm uncomfortable with Fonz. He's been very aggressive all game, and has also taken a strong lead of the town. I'm not saying that's scummy, it seems to be his meta. However, it does make me uncomfortable, and I hope that we don't put all our eggs in one basket with him. It could be a nasty basket for all we know. I don't particularly agree with everything he says either. However, what I do like about Fonz is his passion. Maybe I'm getting sold by an act here, but that feels townish to me.

Oh, the wiffle waffling! Do I need to explain this? Do I truly?

And other than that, only a lot of fluff saying people are town rather than scum.

this one is saillant (not sure if that is an english word):

I include myself in this advice, and that's why I'm hunting for scum outside of Deer and M+R whose cases I don't believe in. However:

where? the only places where you have said anything about people not called Deer/M+R were post 1 and post 6, boberz and fonz resp. neither included even a small attempt at scumhunting, let alone you forming an actual opinion on them.

You are laughable, Damon_Gant. It is only in post 10 that you state you are suspicious of ANYONE (it was furc), and only in post 12 you decided 'hmm maybe its time to make a case'.

His following scumhunting of Furc then is pro-town, I feel I should mention.

ISO 17: oh, where did Diacria pop up on his scumlist out of nowhere.

damon_gant can you explain

ISO19 could be seen as an attempt to get a list of people he found townie (it succeeded) but since I am not too sure what scum would win from this I'll just say that it is unhelpful at best.

Current top-notch suspects: Damon_gant, MehPlusRawr

vote: damon_gant

I want you not to only adress my reply to your case on me, I want you also to reply to my case on me. Why did you not scumhunt? Why did you lie as in saying you did scumhunt? Why did you call so many people town? Why did it take you so long to find anyone scummy at all?

I want everyone to look VERY close at mr. non-obvious scum, Damon_Gant.

[sirdanilot]

However, I also have my suspicions about the dana wagon, and I think that will be one of my focal places for scumhunting. The votes nearer the end of that wagon were really unconvincing for me.

Oh you can be damn sure we won't forget this promise. Looking forward to see it.

[sirdanilot]

What? You didn't read my case on damon but voted me? Or what?

You know I am fucking sick of this jack.

unvote, vote jack

I am not even going to hide that this is a pressure vote (since I said something about them in my case, so my normal behavior of not saying they are pressure votes cannot be done now).

Explain yourself.

[sirdanilot]

I have NOT been omgusing, and here is my defense.

MPR, my rebuttal of damon's case wasn't my only reason of voting him (if it was, then yes I would be expecting lots of accusations of omgus coming at me). Look at the very very incriminating ISO, please. You know you would if you were town.

My vote on Jack is merely a pressure vote, so also not OMGUS. However he does need to explain himself, and I mean really really.

Then, my case on you was before you omgused me, so you are the pot calling the kettle black (or what is this expression).

I nailed 2 of the scum guys: mpr, damon_gant.

[sirdanilot]

Blatant OMGUS on Jack there sirdan. But before you did that I was on your side I actually quite liked your post on damon.

pressure. vote.

comprende?

[sirdanilot]

I nailed 2 of the scum guys: mpr, damon_gant.

What???WHat????WHAt?????WHAT????

what? these are my two top suspects. I think I nailed the scum.

Now let's not let these two just coast by guys. At least look at them and form your own opinion, but don't you dare ignoring them.

Boberz: what do you think of damon?
What do you think of MPR?

[sirdanilot]

I guess I should have read that post by sirdani

unvote, vote:Damon Gant

Yes you should have. I nailed the scum, and night actions proved it.

unvote

vote Damon Gant

He wasn't L-1. Now he is.

Claim. Now.

[sirdanilot]

^that was useless

RichardGHP: Who, aside from Damon_ObviousScum_Gant do you think is scum?

In fact, do you think damon is scum or are you not sure yet?

What do you think of my ISO on damon?

[sirdanilot]

I think a claim from Damon might be informative for later use. I don't think anyone should counterclaim yet, though.

A claim isn't an obligation to counter claim.

[sirdanilot]

jack - who, aside from damon_gant, do you think is scum?

yes I am repeating myself

[sirdanilot]

Voting biggest suspect:

vote: mehplusrawr

Jack is up there but I am unable to read this guy. I need to read some other players though.

[sirdanilot]

uh guys, CCARAVEN4 hasn't posted since 8 days ago

please replace ccaraven4

[sirdanilot]

Ythill I don't want to argue with you or question your judgment. But please pay attention to the fact that CCARaven4 hasn't posted AT ALL on the site since the 24th of April. Double check that yourself if you wish. To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if he were a flaker.

[sirdanilot]

sigh don't talk about ongoing games.

I think you can get away with what you just said but please don't even think about talking about it any further. I think Ythill is pretty pissed now since there was talk of ongoing games earlier as well, so let's try not to push this line people.

[sirdanilot]

Oh I forgot to mention this, posting in all games:

Mod: due to an eye operation I will be v/la from Wednesday 28 until at least 1st of march

If you really want to you can replace me out, since I am of course not 100% sure I'll be back at that date (heh, I'd like to be... ), but you don't have to as far as I'm concerned. If I don't return by that date, just replace me.

[sirdanilot]

"Mod: due to an eye operation I will be v/la from Wednesday 28

april

until at least 1st of

march

may

"

[sirdanilot]

ALL GAMES:

Okay guys I have a problem here. Ive just come out of ee surgery and I have this plastic thing on my eye... I can see )hence im here to post) but it's going to be way too tiring to read pages of mafiagames etc. I don't think clogging up my games while I'm hardly able to read will do any good,so uh...

replace me out

.j it's not a permanent condition, but its for like ten days and I dont want to be vla for two weeks straight.

I'm really sorry guys, but this is just the last drop for me. I really can't handle this with my horribly annoying eye covered by a plastic cap. I did not foresee this before I went to be operated, or at least I thought it wouldn't be as bad... oh well.

unvote