Mafia 113: Mafia in Mendo ~ Game Over

[boberz]

Wooo, lets play.

Btw Jack you have already broken the rules lol

[boberz]

I wont be doing any of the above. But I am not convinced that we should say "on pain of lynch" untill we actually see the situations in detail. I would agree with that if there were a clause saying something like. 'If and only if, there is no justifyable excuse' or something similar.

Can I ask all a question:

How much mafia have you all played?
I have 3 completed games was town in all and won all.

[boberz]

Hey guys, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm just going to pretend the game already started

Who did you leanr that off

[boberz]

I sense that sirdanilot is assuming the sort of authority he would have as an IC in a newbie game, he does not have this here we are all equals.

1/ I therefore see his manner as a way to lead town.

2/ I also think he sits on the fence calling The Fonz null, it may be true but he could have not hedged his bets so much "it might just be playstyle..." etc.

3/ It could also be called active lurking. Why even mention it if it just his playstlye, it is not as if anyone was suspecting him or writing him off. It was attempt to look like contribution without there being any.

4/ He also copied my question, admitting to it. why??? a clear attempt at buddying with me!

---

This guy is scum,

I will prevote sirdan

[boberz]

Sorry didnt realise that was against the rules.

[boberz]

Active lurking is always scummy. And you can active lurk in one post. So long as that post is not contributing when it should have been.

Leading town is scummy when done in such a way that it stops (or attempts to) the line of thoughts that were going on.

The point about the null read was that I didnt see the need for it at all, it was just words.

You can always scumhunt!

You did not address the buddying point, a clear attempt to get me onside!!!

Diacra's vote on me is crap. It stems from him/her? not agreeing with my case, disagreeing is not a scum tell.

[boberz]

I find games are quicker when everyone tries to make the game quick, rather than when people talk about making a game quick.

[boberz]

Mostly newbie games, but I have also played in Pick Your Poison IV a mini normal.
Currently in two other newbies as well.

Other situations to break your contract. Off the top of my head, what about lying about the nature of their role (dont react to this obviously people it is not rolefishing) such as how many shots or something like that. I dont know but the point I was making is that we need to examine each situation in isolation.

I do not accuse you The Fonz because you only asked for people to comment on your proposition, I felt sirdan did more than this.

[boberz]

Crap sorry PYP4 wasnt normal sorry.

Link is here. http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... &start=775

[boberz]

I strongly think we should be scumhunting now, there is nothing different now apart form the fact not every player has confirmed. We will get to see the players that are delaying this confirmation and we get to examine everyone's play.

The Fonz, why do you think me prevoting a player that I find scummy means I am the sort of player who will screw things over later in the game???

I had better get this on record, I didnt really suspect sirdan I just thought I could stretch more points on him than anyone else at the time. I am trying to lead by example and scumhunt rather than

just

talk about theory.

I think looking at specific players is more important than theory discussions.

---

Why is it hard to scumhunt deer?

[boberz]

But you said it was hard to scumhunt deer, not you didnt want to. Which is it? Or both?

---

I dont know a great deal about the game but I dont think I am going to play that badly. If you think I believed a word of my accusation you were wrong, I was just trying to get scumhunting going. I dont really get what I have done wrong.

Where was I trying to be too clever??? (I dont really get why I have given off this impression?)

[boberz]

Thank you for the compliment The Fonz. And I will happily promise not to lie about my role, and as I indicated I agreed with all your points in principle. I was just worried by the definite lynching element of it. I misunderstood what post you were moaning at me for.

My mafia history??? Can you elaborate (it sounds like a meta). I dont make silly plays, I got told off for fake claiming VT in my first ever game, I was a doc. We still won fortuantly but I learnt my lesson there. That said I am still able to take advice and will do.

---

Sirdan. I have already answered why I felt you were different to The Fonz, I felt you were trying to direct whereas The Fonz was just making a suggestion.

I think that it can be dangerous and maybe I was wrong to make up an accusation from nowhere. But equally it can get people talking and it did. I was worried about the direction of conversation and tried to change it.

---

Now the game has really started. I will vote

Deer

for the slight inconsistency I pointed out near the end of pregame. I do not think he had a valid reason not to scumhunt.

@Damon: you could have joined us at the time. but good to see you now.

[boberz]

Even after Deer's post I want to know whether he couldnt scumhunt, or whether he didnt want to scumhunt pregame. Whichever he chooses I wish to also know why he used the other one as a reason. If it is both why did he not say that in either explanation he gave.

[boberz]

BV why random vote????

I agree the theory is better than RVS i think hunting would have been better than theory. However discussing the virtues of theory v hunting v RVS we should now scumhunt. So can we all do this on MD another day and get on with the game now?

[boberz]

I meant it is

possible

to active lurk in one post, not every off topic comment it active lurking. For example (an extreme case) say you are the third person to post and the other two have both provided content, if you then make a really big post that takes hours to compile, but every line is a joke then I would consider it active lurking. Town thrives on content.

My policy on lurking full stop is to stop it before it starts, so try to include everyone in the discussion and mention it if I see someone falling off their normal posting schedule. This means that when I first mention lurking of a player it is not always a scum factor for me.

---

Sorry Ythill I knew the rule just failed typing

vote: Deer

with the bold correctly as I have now done.

Hey guys, can we have reasoning with these votes otherwise the rest of us cannot understand your thinking.

---

I am a newb, but I hate people using it as an excuse so I rarely introduce myself as such. I try to emphasize my f2f games because i have played hundreds and a lot is transferable. (I accept not all)

---

Diacria why did you change your mind on me??? Against the grain of conversation if I may say.

---

[boberz]

So you guys are voting Deer not because you have any new info, but you recognise that I have a small point and we need to put some pressure on?

But surely the three of you calling it a bandwagon, and talking about getting the game rolling reduces this slightly???

Oh well atleast it will get my question answered.

V/LA untill tomorrow about this time, soz but it will be daily posts most weekdays if I am honest.

[boberz]

Anymore to say on the matter Furclow???

[boberz]

Well you are now refusing to scumhunt BV, by the fact many asked you to and you didnt in your latest post.

I kind of think you an deer are scum.

[boberz]

Firstly not scumhunting is in my eyes scummy. But there was also a contradiction deer.

In #45 you say it is very difficult to scumhunt. When pushed on it you change your mind and in #51 you seem to swing the argument and suggest we shouldnt scumhunt because not everyone is here. Now you are saying it was difficult again.

Either way get scumhunting!!!

[boberz]

Deer please do some scumhunting, asking someone to explain a case only seems like lurking with a purpose to me.

I myself am tired and will do a proper post tomorrow morning.

[boberz]

OMGUS vote everyone btw. I was the only one really pushing the deer wagon properly so it is no suprise it is me who is scummy for it.

My calling people out for not scumhunting is scumhunting in itself because i see not scumhunting as a scum tell.

Also I asked about BV's random vote, the three people who got onto your wagon deer and obviously attacked sirdan. It is a little harsh to say I havent scumhunted.

My iso is ok I think alhtough I will try to make it better.

[boberz]

Your gut read on Jack was not scumhunting. It was one sentence long, and mentioned a vote without reason, which is not a scum tell although annoying, the only point you had was Jack moaning about wuestions being askes so one proper point! Not equivalent to the three examples I pointed at, these were just examples I am sure looking at my iso properly I could find more. I also followed through on mine properly. If you count asking questions as scumhunting I have done a lot more than you.

Lurker hunting, and calling people out for scumhunting is scumhunting. Of course it is. I dont understand your argument why it isnt. If I consider it scummy, which I do then calling someone out for it is scumhunting.

The vote still looks OMGUSy.

[boberz]

What I meant was that I think you genuinely see a need for all these questions, despite the fact we are yet to see anything come of any of these questions. It isnt a 'term' just something I used.

I do not think I have been the most protown player here but that does not take away my right to criticise others and ask them to do better. Perhaps you looking at me can be considered scumhunting though so this element of the case is reducing.

[boberz]

Deer the other point was the contradiction point. Maybe I am the only one who read it that way???

---

I agree I want the softclaiming answered for btw.

---

Horrordude! What do you consider your primary aim in this game if you are working for town right now??? I seriously think you have it wrong.

Scumhunting was possible because people had psoted nad those people might have been scum. Even if you disagree with that why does it make sirdan scummy???!!! That said, any suspicions Damon or HackerHuck???

[boberz]

Pretty much anyone, actually, I think Sirdan is probably in the least scummy fifth of the players at the moment.

^
This

---

Dont like the recent Diacria posts, they feel silly but not necessarily scummy.

I do not want to lynch Furcolow!!! But the claims was a claim and was bad and I have no idea why he did it.

[boberz]

Furcolow, how does your recent play help town???

[boberz]

Sirdan and The Fonz please dont wade into the theory discussion (I know you are trying to avoid it) but I think if ti goes too much further I will consider it lurking and therefore scummy because we all warned of it earlier as well.

I will actually

Vote Jack

sirdan makes a bit of sense to me in truth.

I would like Jack to post to three posts he has made that have actively helped town.

[boberz]

I am not saying that. If you read it properly you will see that it is a warnig about the future not a complaint about the past.

[boberz]

No I dont think you do look like doing that. But if you look at your post above the post where I first mention this you will understand why I wanted to make the warning. That said this discussion is no better.

How easy is meta to change The Fonz??? Because if you only have read one or two games they may be outliers compared to his normal play. If you read my meta I cannot imagine it would tell you much because I have only finished four games so I am still adapting with respect to game style. I am always wary of people placing too much emphasis on meta.

That said if it works for you then go ahead it is not something to discourage merely question.

[boberz]

. If you're going to drop crumbs like that we

need

to know what you're talking about.

Guys, has no-one figured out yet that if someone drops a breadcrumb, the thing for town players to do is IGNORE it?

Assuming that's what he's doing at all, which i doubt.

I did but this was talked about enough for me to be happy that scum had noticed it. So now it is necessary to get said info out. Lots of people have been breadcrumbing PRs I am not mentioning them all. That said atleast some of these people must be scum.

[boberz]

@Nico, I admitt this hasnt been my best game so far. But there has been content out there. I was the only one to put up any case on Deer the early bandwagon for example. I could have been a lot worse if I wanted to tactically lurk.

I have also raised a number of other points which have been largely ignored (I am saving these up for a mass 'ypu fail' post in a day or two) and have tried to keep level headed when others were being pain silly (people who have seen me in other games will know that this has not been my strong point).

[boberz]

unvote vote furcolow

Please answer the question: explain how what you are doing is helping town.

I think you are bad but playing on your weirdness to try and get away with it. Note I am not voting because of the contract (which I never agreed to without conditions, it was later explained differently in a way which I was happy to agree with) I am voting because this guy is scummy.

He uses WIFOM for fun.

He is full of inconsistency not leas the time when he criticised meta and used it in the same post.

He tried to set up a newbie excuse pretty quickly (something I find scummy)

There was an AtE in the post where he did some kind of colour related claim.

Seems happy to mislynch in iso #5 not the right mindset, even if statistically it is true.

---

Actually

unvote

provisionally. Can somebody explain the jester to me properly. Because the way I ahve played it in f2f is different from how it is explained here. Might this be furcolow.

I may have commited some drastically bad thing mentioning it but it kind of seems relevant to me.

He is scummy though.

SO is Deer btw still.

[boberz]

When I play f2f pretty much everyone claims vanilla all the time, then if you are a doc you claim later. Lying about being Vanilla isnt a tell at all this honestly works just as well, but I understand why we do not do it here.

But my other points stand. And after having a jester explained properly I will

vote furcolow

[boberz]

Furcolow how is that post helping town?????????????????????????????????

[boberz]

I just saw that.

Why unvote. This mad WIFOM claim come everything else is not the only reason I am voting him.

He is yet to even mention the other points.

The most importnant being.

How are you helping town now, what are doing to help town in the future, and what have you done in the past to help town.

[boberz]

Unless they can daytalk here and he has just let something slip, again.

That said you are right this is unlikely

unvote

[boberz]

I think he means blue are third parties. In which case I dont like the fact he is bringing it up at all.

[boberz]

Bad post Fur!!!

[boberz]

I get the case on bv. Can somebody explain why we are back on Deer and why we are considering dram???


I am going to

vote CCA

He has not contributed anything despite checking in. He is concentrating enough to care about incorrect spelling but fails to spend any time in presenting a case.

His vote on Ythill still exists and that rubs me up the wrong way this late in the day.

It is beginning to get too late to put scumhunting off. This is not a lynch all lurkers. This is a lynch this lurker.

[boberz]

I didnt even try to understand it.

Although the case on Damon is the most protown attempt I have seen from Fur. I also didnt like that first post Fur has quoted.

Why do you think he specified Damon was a Mafia Goon??? Or am I about to stroll into Wifom.

[boberz]

He is getting more cocky with it now he thinks we are not going to lynch him.

[boberz]

unvote

too many competing wagons with only one or two people on. Any one with a wagon they are keen on please present a case for it again. I will also iso read bv, fur and MPR to decide.

[boberz]

Wait, with the contract- You can't claim vanilla townie unless you're at L-1, but you're not allowed to lie about your role? That looks a bit contradictory, or am I misunderstanding it?

Explain this again please MPR. (nobody else please I want MPR on this)

Why did you seem slightly indignant when people asked you for a case, then halfheartedly present one on sirdan.

---

Do you understand why we need to see you scumhunt in as many posts as possible???

---

How much mafia have you played MPR???

[boberz]

lol I ask people to explain their wagons suddenly they all start leaving them!

[boberz]

Deer comment on something other than yourself please!!!!!!

Make a case. You are online I know you are.

[boberz]

Thanks Richard. can I have links please MPR??

[boberz]

Thanks sirdan, off to bed onw though.

[boberz]

Wait, with the contract- You can't claim vanilla townie unless you're at L-1, but you're not allowed to lie about your role? That looks a bit contradictory, or am I misunderstanding it?

Explain this again please MPR. (nobody else please I want MPR on this)

Why did you seem slightly indignant when people asked you for a case, then halfheartedly present one on sirdan.

---

Do you understand why we need to see you scumhunt in as many posts as possible???

---

How much mafia have you played MPR???

I still want this answered MPR.

[boberz]

Took a closer look at Deer and don't get the case. Although I'm keen on a Diacria, I'm much more interested in a Boberz lynch. I don't like his early attacks on Deer - I really don't see much wrong with Deer's comments and squawking about scumhunting is not the same as actually doing it.

Thisis where he continues to believe that Deer is scummy. He makes a few more posts, then without any indication of why his opinion has changed, he's now questioning the Deer wagon

That makes me think it's more likely that Deer is town and Boberz is scum.

Vote: Boberz

My read sort of fizzled out. The point wasnt really addressed but it lost potency as the game continued. I also asked about two different wagons including deer, I wanted to know what the new points were because I hadnt seen them. This is a question that is yet to be answered.

[boberz]

If MPR is posting elsewhere I will vot efor him. I want my questions answered and nobody has prsented a substantial case on anyone else recently and I cannot find much new yet.

vote MPR

[boberz]

I missed MPR responses to my questions because they were imbedded in the quote. I didnt like them though.

I think MPR made a bit of a slip when talking about the not lying about your role thing. There is no way he thought that you should be allowed to claim PR before L2 and only claim VT at L1. Or however else he is going to claim to have read that. The meaning is not at all ambiguous he just got a bit confused from scums perspective, I think.

MPR wrote a case five days before trying to post it???!??!?!?!?!?!!!!!

[boberz]

As some of you may have seen the election in Britain has been called. I am heavily involved in British politics so will not be as active as I have been in the past.

I will be on and commenting no need to replace, just a warning in advance.

[boberz]

Hi all to say I am on but falling asleep, lots been said will have to read it tomorrow.

[boberz]

SO in short if it came down to it I would be more than happy to go on deer but I still like MPR better.

---

HackerHuck doesnt even put me on his massive scumlist when he was voting for me in #489. He then hops onto MPR wagon with no new reasoning and much bigger cases on many others. I sensed from this post that maybe deer is scum with HH but not MPR. So despite my read I am going to do this.

unvote vote deer

---

That said I dont like how inward looking MPR still is.

---

I do think The Fonz was as much at fault as deer for that rolefishing, which may as well be a softclaim now because of you lot. Meanwhile I dont think deer was deliberately rolefishing there but he certainly milked it once he realised he might be able to squeeze somehting out of it. That said loads of people havve dropped loads of hints, it has been quite funny.

---

MPr has not explained his lurking adequately.
He still posts a lot of fluff, only a few of his posts are no longer lurking.
I think he is very inward looking and defensive to a point where it distracts from his own scumhunting.

[boberz]

Fur as nice as it is to ignore you I will address this, once and only once.

It is not that suspicious for me to unvote and vote. when I explain why (primary reason being the wagons, specifically HH) when we are looking for a compromise and when the meta did look different.

You are just hoping it would look suspicious so you look good but this time, as with many others, you fail.

[boberz]

I dont want to go into the rolefishing debate it will only make things worse. I just think you could have done it in a better way. I agree with your intentions. I am not certain Deer even gets why what he did is bad so if he cant get his head round that I hardly think he was deliberately trying to out a PR, but that doesnt make him any less scummy.

I am voting deer because I didnt like the look of the MPR wagon, and HackerHuck's vote on MPR looked to me like he was picking the one that wasnt his partner.

[boberz]

What I mean is it makes him no less scummy than I had him before. ie I am attributed it more to newbiness than scumminess but it could have been newb scum as well as newb town in equal measure.

Any way the longer this debate hangs around the more chance of drawing scums attention to any more roles that may have been revealed.

[boberz]

Why is he the scummiest Deer?

[boberz]

I don't know, he did it confidentally and he had an immediate flavour answer. He also doesnt seem to play like he would know what a tracker was unless he had played with one before.

However it is an easy day 1 claim and I too want to know how your role links to weed.

[boberz]

ALSO: FURC: PLEASE STOP USING COLOURS TO REFER TO ALIGNMENTS

^
This

I am too tired to comment on much more. I thought we decided to leave Fur, I still dont like him, but I think we decided to let a vig sort him out. Every word that has come out of his mouth has been drivel but I have literally been loling at it and moving on.

[boberz]

unvote vote fur

too tired to aruge tis easier just to kill him. Dont care how scummy this look sI want him dead he has been anti town and scummy for the whole game.

[boberz]

unvote vote fur

too tired to aruge tis easier just to kill him. Dont care how scummy this look sI want him dead he has been anti town and scummy for the whole game.

Unvote, Vote: Boberz

Is this not reason enough?

Clearly not, considering what everyone else has says. I still think Fur is scum I came off it because others advised me to (potentially correctly) but I am not policy lynching if you think I am making a policy type thing,

[boberz]

i really would like to know why you're on my nuts so bad. i'm sorry that i'm a new player, but would you mind leaving me alone? honestly. I'm trying to have fun, here, and I hate seeing you nitpick.

Honestly, if you're THAT newbish that you can't handle nitpicking and negative attention, you should be in newbie games...

I agree with Richard here.

Fur sometimes like to think he is the only one who understand mafia and at other times plays the newbie card.

He has said some things which clearly show he understands mafia (even if he is bad at it) but then plays the most noobish game ever. I think he is scum.

[boberz]

Why are we leaving Fur to vig, every word that comes out of his mouth is bad.

Furthermore I dont like the wagon that is building up on Dana. I understand it is almost a backup lynch but it just feels like it is building up without any real force behind it. I dont see a coherent case that I would be prepared to lynch on but I understand we will need to find someone.

[boberz]

Fur I genuinely keep having to scroll up to your explanations, which are ambiguous at times, to see the difference between blue and green; please stop using the colours. Why do you?

dana: Did a very strange thing there. I see no reason why he would do that as scum more so than town so once again I will say that the contract has not worked and I cannot see how it has helped us find scum either.

[boberz]

Fur go crawl into a hole curl up into a ball and stay there please.

[boberz]

Blatant OMGUS on Jack there sirdan. But before you did that I was on your side I actually quite liked your post on damon.

[boberz]

I nailed 2 of the scum guys: mpr, damon_gant.

What???WHat????WHAt?????WHAT????

[boberz]

I thought you had just stated it as fact as a slip. Ie knowing you were scum with them. But it was a long shot I was just hoping you had slipped rather than genuinely thinking it.

No I do not ocmprehend your pressure vote. Do you think he is feeling any pressure right now? I am not saying you are scummy sirdan just wrong on a couple of points.

I was against dana wagon because I honestly didnt see where it was come from. His breaking of the contract need not have come from scum and I said so at the time.

[boberz]

Wow I missed a lot. We seemed to do the right thing there. Presumably he is town (he was still saying it after death so I have no reason to doubt).

I am trying to work out what that would mean for deer.

[boberz]

Diacra, what am I meant to get out of that big post you did? I still have to go back and assess who did what for what reason anyway. I am slightly confused as to its necessity, but the fact it came so quickly leads me to believe you were writing it during the night. Is this true?

I am fairly certain that I hads an outstanding point or two on MPR as well, but I will have to read back to find out what exactly.

[boberz]

Diacra, what am I meant to get out of that big post you did? I still have to go back and assess who did what for what reason anyway. I am slightly confused as to its necessity, but the fact it came so quickly leads me to believe you were writing it during the night. Is this true?

I am fairly certain that I hads an outstanding point or two on MPR as well, but I will have to read back to find out what exactly.

I believe I pointed it out in the post where I quoted it. It was the fact that Jack was on most every wagon.

2 things:

1/ Dont answer when it was not directed at you please.

2/ Do I establish from this that you have not actually gone and read back to see if Jack was on those wagons and why. Or is it inherently scummy to be on band wagons?

[boberz]

You still cant talk about it.

[boberz]

Well you have just told him something he could ahve found and he will use it to bluff his way out of o load of IIoA.

So you didnt read Jack on the wagons you voted him for. And despite that not being scummy according to you you are keeping your vote there.

Vote CMAR

[boberz]

The chainsaw defence is ludicrous when you dont know either allignment so I will just ignore your point against me as potential omgus in itself.

Ok you said every bandwagon I said bandwagon. The fact you found it coincidental rather than going back and reading is rather my point though.

[boberz]

I dont undertstand that post diacria

[boberz]

Case on Jack was not VC's. I wrote GUT pretty clearly.

Below for my reference:
With the speed of built up of the dana wagon, I would bet on at least 2 scum, probably 3 on it.
So that's 2-3 {Jack, Cry, Meh, Richard, Dram, Nico}.

Deer wagon at it's height is the same.
1,2{Jack, green, Meh, bob, dram}

Keeping hands clean from dana wagon:
1, 2{Greeni, boberz, Sirdani}

Competing bv vs. furco vs. mehplus
1, 2{Richard, horror, greeni, dram}

Assuming Mehplus town:
1, 2{Richard, Greeni, sirdani, Jack}

After looking through this, I would like to here from greenindirt.

@Mod: Prod him?

@ Boberz: So your point is that I hadn't gotten to analyzing more of Jack? That is ridiculous since I've been rather active and just haven't gotten around to it. I think being on every bandwagon itself is rather scummy. Deal with it.

No my point is you voted him for getting on several bandwagons without reading the context behind those bandwagons! ie he could have done it perfectly legitimately.

[boberz]

I completely forgot about Nico you know. I think he needs a look just because he is under my radar and that is not good for anybody.

[boberz]

Ok, I'm not sure if that's just his play, but Jack just did it again. This time it was really funny, I actually LOL'd. Someone provides a case on a person, Jack votes the person who provided the case haha.

Unvote

for now

I fail to see what is wrong with this at all.

[boberz]

EBWOP: The irony of me doing it again is intentional, don't mind it.

Okay then if we choose to allow the random playing of the noob card for no reason you will have to contribute.

So apart from the above what is grabbing your attention MPR?

[boberz]

Hi finding it really hard to keep up and whenever I get a moment the site wont let me log on. I will be back in action proper from friday and will be back properly active from then. I am aware I have been lurking I apologise but not much more I can do tbh.

[boberz]

We are not doing very well are we! I will be more active from now but I am struggling to get a grip of this game.

I do however sense that Nico has been escaping the limelight somewhat. Needs chacking over

[boberz]

Yep claim seems ok to me.

[boberz]

I am a bulletproof.

[boberz]

I am not a sk. Is it possible there is an sk with an alternative rule set that might mean they dont want to come out but only they know why?

This is not me suggesting it is me just a thought.

[boberz]

Boberz you was going to look closer on Nico, how did it go?
Since you are bulletproof i would like to ask you some questions:
1) is it one-time protection or have any other restrictions?
2) did anyone tried to shot you already?
3) what is the point in claiming it other than saving yourself from being shot this night?
4) why did you avoid attention lately instead of pretending being other useful PR?
5) why you didnt claim cop or other role that could made scum try to shot you instead of other role?
6) flavor?

1/ It only stops shots I think (although this is not overtly said it is not hard to read between the lines). We also lose if we are in a logical tie in a two way endgame.

2/ I dont think anyone has shot me, I have had no communication as such.

3/ Because we were in a mass claim and I didnt want to lie. I was warned at the start of this game about implications of trying to be too clever with role claiming. Read The Fonz in the first few pages for evidence.

4/ Because I have been very busy and only this week got more time, more or less straight into a massclaim by the time I was involved enough to comment properly

5/ You have sort of already asked this question see answer to three.

6/ I am one of the most influencial growers in Northern California. I understand how dangerous it is so have built a fortress for a house.

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Another post on Nico in a few minutes

[boberz]

Nico's claim, with his reference to CMAR's direction looks like it could be good actually, because it is the sort of thing you can tell he may have been itching to say for a while. Equally it could be that he is trying to deflect attention away from a fake claim bringing in something else to discuss at the same time. So I am null on that.

IN fact he has been talking as a poss vig for a while I can see him as a vig. An element of lurking and undermining people's argument without addressing the points made but not overall scummy I dont think.

It appears my gut was wrong. Unless my head is wrong.

I suppose part of what was bugging me was occasionally he seemed to accidentally hint about understanding the game more than us, but that could be true of a vig as well.

[boberz]

All this setup rubbish has confused me slightly, largely because I am trying to ignore it somewhat. MPR why did you want me to comment on your very strange post?

I think we should lynch th eplayer most likely to be scum.

Then we should hope to wake up in the morning with another situation to talk about.

[boberz]

Basically I want to apologise to town for being a dick. Basically I was very busy and should have replaced out but thought I could do it. I could just about read every post and tell my gut opinion but actually helping was beyond me. it showed a lack of respect for the game and a lack of respect for my fellow players.

My original point about fakeclaiming in the first couple of pages stands though. Obv I couldnt say "if you are a bulletproof you should etc..." but I did my best to disuade the idea but when it came for it the warnings were ringing in my ears. I should have gone with my instincts and claimed something useful, or at last thought about it.

I am not Gordon Brown. But like him I did lose, by 1001 votes. If anyone is sad enough to google which person lost by that many they will find me