Mafia 109 - A Glitch in time - Game Over!

[camn]

VOTE: Nikanor

You heard wrong

RVS aside, I would like everyone to know that I am rocking out to Bruce Spr

in

gsteen in honor of Incog, the back-up Mod.
KMD: did you notice the flavor shout out we got?
Even when we destroy each other, our

death

s are remembered.

[camn]

Why are you asking if someone is serious in the random voting stage?

Why wouldn't someone be serious in the so-called RVS?

YOUR vote might be random, it doesn't mean everyone's is.
I, for one, am just as serious now as I ever will be
And my vote is not random, it is clearly OMGUS. So

there

.

PS. DGB, it

is

wonderful to see you again, so to speak.
@KMD, disregard my previous shout-out comment.. I thought she meant "pale moon rising", but then I remembered we were BOTH wolves! And that was INCOG who survived..

[camn]

Nika-Ythor scumteam for sure.

No

doubt about it.

[camn]

I can only have so much faith in your powers.
He has barely even posted!

[camn]

Yes the five posts made by one of the roughly half of total players who have posted so far have been more suspicious than anything else in the last page and a half or so.

Actually, Anon.. THIS^^ is scummy.
WTF does this even mean?
I was no math major... but it reads like this:
(*x(5)/1.5)/0.5n
to me.

Ytgan

.. lets get down to it. Can you please

reveal

the meaning of that sentence to us all?

[camn]

Actually I can't hold off.
Being obstructionist = scummy, generally.

You are saying it didn't mean anything, then?

[camn]

@ Miserable:

He spied a steamroller of a bandwagon against his buddy, and piled on for no good reason?

If CSL-town, he would maybe hesitate a little, for prudence's sake, at putting anyone at L-1.
CSL-scum would hesitate at putting a TOWNIE at L-1, prob..
but CSL-scum can easily put Nika-scum at L-1, thinking it would fool us after the flip.

@ Nachos:
Case please. We are out of the RVS.

[camn]

Who wants to make a deal? This is an exclusive offer - the first person who agrees to it, gets it. I'm offering a 50/50 bet to control my vote for the entirity of Day 1 (by the way it's going now, it won't be very long). However, if you lose the bet, I get to control your vote.

I roll a 10-sided dice (in thread), and if it's odd I get your vote. If it's even you get my vote. Hurry now!

I am not interested in your bet, but you are right about the fact that Day 1 will be short. EVERY day will be short, due to this being a quick game.

[camn]

I am not interested in your bet, but you are right about the fact that Day 1 will be short. EVERY day will be short, due to this being a quick game.

What was the point in posting that?

Making sure you remembered.
I don't want to see you flopping your vote around Tuesday evening saying "I forgot the deadline was so soon!!"
GOSH!

[camn]

Making sure you remembered.
I don't want to see you flopping your

vote

around Tuesday evening saying "I forgot the deadline was so soon!!"
GOSH!

*votes

ORLY?

[camn]

I also read that as Parama saying Nika is buddying DGB.

But if Parama corrects us, shall we accept it?

PS.. WHERE IS EVERYONE??

[camn]

Wow. That is not the kind of brinksmanship I am used to! But I guess that goes to show what happens when you try and RVS-bandwagon ME.

Anyway.. before night falls everyone should know this:
During Sign-ups, me and KMD came to an agreement that we wouldn't kill each other NIGHT ONE, if either of us ended up scum.
I tell you this so you know, if I die tonight.. KMD is NOT auto-scum. We have a truce, of sorts. In case any of you follow history.

[camn]

Vote: camn.

I've never played with KMD before, but I hear he's a good player. If he hasn't found scum by now, I'd be surprised.

Has the fact that Nikanor's first post was spent following Kmd's RV been included in the case?

That is totally part of the case. That, plus the fact that I love riding the edge, are why my vote stays for now. I wanna see how this plays out.
I also support a CSL - lynch.
I also do NOT support KMD's vacancy. I would support his lynch on those terms.. but I have to wait until day 2...

Oh, and hush your mouth about the other thing, Ythan. I am paying attention plenty.
If you MUST know, I am listening to

Buena Vista Social Club

. I like the Cuban stuff, but I think I like

Ry Cooder

the most.

[camn]

I love taking quotes slightly out of context.

Me not knowing that there was no n0 would be ridiculous.

... I'd have to know if there was a night zero because I'd have to kill somebody.

[camn]

Theory aside. in

THIS GAME

... claiming is a pro-town thing to do, i think. Especially post-hammer. If you subscribe to the idea that a well-informed town is a victorious town, that is. Which I do.

That said.. I am willing to follow Yos on a CSL wagon if we cannot reach consensus re: Nika.
I DREAM of Drip-town, camn-town and Yos2-town all playing in concordance..... so if we 3 can come to an agreement, that would help my dream come true.

[camn]

METHINKS IT'S TIME FOR MaB TO GO.
DGB is in charge of voting though.

RAGEEEE.

Wait, didn't Nik propose I go in Day 1? Yeah lets SO go with what scum said.

Unless you're scum with him?

Wow.

VOTE: Miserable at Best

[camn]

Does anyone care to point out exactly why they're targeting me, or is this how all quick games go on this site? (Serious question, by the way.)

Quick games move quickly... and I think I was pretty clear as to why I was voting you.
What you saidwas MAXIMUM scummy, and I don't know who you have been playing with that lets you get away with stuff like that.

Do you want to explain that post?
Nika-scum tried to throw some crap on you. We call that 'distancing' and it is a classic scum move. It could be a scum-double-move, with you as town... until YOU TRIED TO USE IT AS YOUR DEFENSE.

You honestly said (sarcastically i might add) that SINCE scum-nika was distancing from you, you should actually be cleared.

this, my friend, does not fly. Please try again, and keep the sarcasm to yourself.

ALSO, Drippereth is town. (Or she is scum and is going to kill us all, in which case this game is already lost) Voting for someone who is obv-town is no way to convince us you are town.

[camn]

It is a possibility. I doubt it, but it is nonzero.

[camn]

Please don't forget that SpyreX is scum.

And, apparently, a sleeping-girl molester.

Unsurprised, you spot camn and SpyreX sleeping peacefully in one corner; curled up together, SpyreX's arm was draped over her waist lovingly and protectively.

Yeah no. I was asking her about it and she was being elusive.

I actually was trying to avoid my typical night-1 death.
I'd like to avoid death night-2 as well, thank you.
My crumbs are to be explored AFTER I die... not before.

[camn]

Does anyone care to point out exactly why they're targeting me, or is this how all quick games go on this site? (Serious question, by the way.)

Quick games move quickly... and I think I was pretty clear as to why I was voting you.
What you saidwas MAXIMUM scummy, and I don't know who you have been playing with that lets you get away with stuff like that.

Do you want to explain that post?
Nika-scum tried to throw some crap on you. We call that 'distancing' and it is a classic scum move. It could be a scum-double-move, with you as town... until YOU TRIED TO USE IT AS YOUR DEFENSE.

You honestly said (sarcastically i might add) that SINCE scum-nika was distancing from you, you should actually be cleared.

this, my friend, does not fly. Please try again, and keep the sarcasm to yourself.

ALSO, Drippereth is town. (Or she is scum and is going to kill us all, in which case this game is already lost) Voting for someone who is obv-town is no way to convince us you are town.

I know it is hard to explain your predecessor... but here is the meat of my vote.
This plus Day 1 = scum?

[camn]

2. His thoughts might help the town, too, regardless of alignment... which is more important.

[camn]

And as I said before you were trying to get people to lynch me immediately, that would have stopped me as death kinda stops people. I haven't read the rules, but I think I'm not allowed to post even a BAH post after I die.

Are you dead yet? Were you dead earlier when you said you wanted to post your thoughts?

OK, look dude....
I think you are town.. but you probably should take it down a notch.
The poor guy just replaced in 2 hours ago, and has already out-posted KMD.

Take a breath, and start posting about half as much, k?

UNVOTE

I think the replacement deserves some playing time... and Ythan has a little too much of a hard-on for a quicklynch.

[camn]

Guy had bad luck replacing in. If he deserves more playing time there are a ton of other games. In

this

game he is obv scum and should be lynched.

We can lynch him just fine by Saturday without you post-bombing him.
Just take a breath, ok? Build a case. Use quotes. Take some time with things. You will live longer

[camn]

Pulindar, just read clergy in ISO. I was going to quote things that were scummy but I ended up quoting half their posts.

This doesn't count as contributing.

Neither does this.

[camn]

Camn, why arent you voting for someone?

1. Ythan is totally knocking this game off track...and I watch in horror.
2. I would like MaB's replacement to have a chance to get a hold of things..

[camn]

Ok.. this game needs more signal and WAY less noise.

1.

Parama

Town

. A little too tunnelled on that CSL policy lynch, but we have all been there.
2.

Nachomamma

Null read due to low signal:noise
3.

McZombie

Lurking

in all my games. Please die IRL.
5.

Maemuki

lolmaeisaccusingsomebodyofactivelurking

ISO 33 redeems her though.

Townish

.
6.

Ythan

Town, but actually

hurting the game

. I would have daykilled him already if this were Medieval Mafia. BOO.
7.

Pulindar

(Rep. Miserable At Best)
I like the replacement, but MAB was REALLY SCUMMY.
I almost buy that he was a rookie overwhelmed by our awesomeness... but then I remember when BM replaced out as scum in endgame.

NEVER AGAIN SCUM.

8.

Dramonic

Die lurker die

. This game = awesome, and it should be your #1.
9.

camn

obvtown

.
10.

SpyreX

I agree with his ISO 9 re: hoops.

probtown

. But he is good enough to fool me.
11.

A Clergyman with a Hoop

I don't see scum here. I like ISO 33/34 a lot, and think that they defended too hard to be buddies with Nika.
On the other hand...

Camn needs to learn to stop breadcrumbing in the RVS.

I always breadcrumb. Regardless of role. And every time, pointing it out is scummy.
Last time that happened, it was Yos/Nuwen.. and they were scum. And it was a fake breadcrumb.
I would accept a

deadline lynch

, but I have a

town

read right now.
12.

Drippereth

OBV

TOWN

.
14.

Yosarian2

I generally respect Yos's play VERY HIGHLY, but I think he is off his feed this game.
Spinning out a theory argument after the Nik non-hammer?
Sadly, even when I get a full town-read from Yos, I tend to want to lynch him, since he is another one who can fool me.
I am glad he is finally here to help me control the spam problem though. NULL READ.
15.

Anon

Are you serious when you say Parama is scum, Drip?

Vote: Nikanor.

I am that good.

Prob

Town

16.

KMD

(numbers)
Die, my

lurking

friend. This game deserves more respect.
17.

Weaboo

In his ISO 2 he is on to something, but then seems unconvinced later. Maybe this is Hydra crosstalk. I am feeling his 9 and 10.. but I need WAY more posts from this filthy lurker.

probtown

[camn]

VOTE : YTHAN

Yos deserves WAY more respect, rookie.

[camn]

camn

-Why is your Parama read town and not null? Is tunneling pro-town to you?
-Is McZ really lurking, or just not around?
-As for your read on me, don't bother doing anything aside from complaining or anything.

1> I don't explain town-reads.

2> I don't know. I dont know her in real life. I don't care. Dropping out of games is even worse than lurking.

3> I can't cut through the uselessness of this to see any real meaning whatsoever. . . but I will lay it out for you.
You have become a liability to the town.
All threats to the town must die.
Thus, you must die.

[camn]

Guys, stop posting so much.

Guess I should read up.

Don't bother.
Just refer to my recent Player-by-player, and start playing from NOW.

seriously.
All of today has been a waste of internets.
And we need you.

[camn]

I have a serious question for you Ythan..

Why do you think you will die tonight?

[camn]

There is a purpose to the bickering. You'll see.

Not really.

I am with Drips re: Vig.
I, too, am a pretty consistent Night 1 target... and I was SHOCKED to see both Drip AND Myself alive this game-morning.
I can't think of any situation why a CSL kill would be better than one of us. . . so I have to assume that they targeted one of us... and failed for some reason.

Though, I will say.. if >I< were scum, I would have killed CSL. I hate bad play that much. But I doubt I would have been able to convince the whole team.

[camn]

UNVOTE
Vote Pulindar

I like you.
But you can't defend MaBest's play.
Odds are you are scum....
And you just minimized the mislynch risk.

[camn]

I too would like to hear this announcement.

[camn]

UNVOTE, Vote Dramonic

[camn]

I'm not trying to live longer, I plan on dying tonight.

I have a serious question for you Ythan..

Why do you think you will die tonight?

Can I get an answer?

And Spyrex-scum could easily be bussing dramonic-scum.

[camn]

I'm not trying to live longer, I plan on dying tonight.

I have a serious question for you Ythan..

Why do you think you will die tonight?

Can I get an answer?

What is the point of this question?

It nags at me that he said that.
I hate loose ends.
and I want to try and steer Ythan back toward the right path. You know.. asking and answering questions in a normal way.

[camn]

Camn, you are focusing on a player that is likely town. I dont know what are your opinions on recent events. Care to share please?

So are you, but I don't mind. I like attention!
My player by player still stands. No real change.

[camn]

Dramonic? Your results?

[camn]

I'll scan who I think is anti-town, thank you very much

Justify scanning Drippereth Night One, please.

[camn]

I dont see any D1 indication you thought she was 'anti-town'.
Plus Parama was #3 on your list. Why not look at me or Ythan?

I think dramonic was/is vig-hunting.

Please discuss.

[camn]

Your explanation is totally consistent with scum Vig-hunting or Cop-hunting.
I understand that for sure.

And why not me? Am I no threat? (I might cry!:()

[camn]

Are people suggesting that Dramonic is a scum gunsmith?

I am exploring the possibility.
His targets seem suspect and his play scummy.. . .
But I

am

thinking about saving it till tomorrow.

Your opinion?

[camn]

PS:

VOTE : Nachomamma

I am ready for a policy lynch here.
Better a dead lurker than a live unknown, IMO.
If scum: must die.
If town: a liability, must die.

[camn]

Weaboo has three fewer posts.

But they say a lot more.

And I would love to point out here that Weaboo pretty heartily attacked Ythan yesterday. A little backsided self defense from our one-line-posting friend?

Hmm.

@

Ythan

:
Could I request a short Player-By-Player from you?
I tried to scan your posts and see if you had taken a position on Weaboo yet.. and your Iso is unreadable.

So, Please?
One post, containing a couple lines re: your opinion on everyone? Even if it is just a townlist, a neutral, and a scumlist?

It would help, I think, for us to see what you are thinking.
And sharing your positions = pro-town.

[camn]

Lurking IS scummy.. especially in a quick game like this.

Imagine you are scum.
Imagine there is a giant town-town battle.. like Clergyhoops vs. Drippereth.

What is your optimal play?

OBV. Stfu and let it happen.

Also.. lurkers don't get nightkilled.
Lurkers KILL us in endgame.. because we have no read on them. We have no posts to dig through.

Right now, we are ahead. We lynched one scum and have avoided some nighttime carnage. We can afford to try and hit some lurkerscum NOW.

[camn]

<snip> parroting it to discredit someone who wants you lynch is just stupid. You're not stupid right?

Is calling someone stupid who wants YOU lynched any better?

Seriously, dude. Your posts are getting absurd.
You should come up with a better argument than "YUR DUM."

[camn]

<snip> IMO, and if he was vig hunting, I'd think that he'd simply claim vig and get it over with. The chance of him dying without the scumteam learning anything at all would be extremely small...<snip>.

No, he would just get vigged.
Whereas claiming a protective role would avoid the noose, give him town points for claiming 'gun' and bussing a buddy later, AND draw doc protection.
Hell, maybe he isn't an investigator AT ALL. Maybe he is plain scum.
If he is scum and targeted CSL, then gambling on ALL the townies being gun-free is pretty easy money. It is such an awesome fakeclaim.. . I think I'll use it if I ever get a chance.
But I do think he is an investigator, and is betting on there only being ONE in the game.
(PS.. I thought about

The only problem is last night.
If he drew protection.. why no kill?

Unless of course we have no doc.. and instead have a RB, who blocked a kill. Or a NK-immune somewhere in the mix.

Anyway, theory-wise it isn't weird, it's awesome... but I agree it is a non-optymal lynch TODAY.

Whereas NACHO is a fine lynch.
Set the precedent for the others.
Maybe scare up some activity from the under-actives.
Maybe even hit scum.

[camn]

Also, this is a very good point against the people saying I'm vig hunting.

And no.. it is a GREAT argument that if you ARE scum, you are not an investigator.. and your fakeclaim is ENTIRELY fake.. not just kind of fake

I do agree that it doesn't really count against you though.

[camn]

Anyway, theory-wise it isn't weird, it's awesome...

But doesn't it sound too ridiculously nefarious and complicated to you?

There is no upper limit to that particular variable in my world.

But I agree that Dram is probably a scum-investigator, and not a plain scumbag. He figured Drip was WIFOMing him, so he went for her.

HOWEVER, I don't like how this discussion is going back to lynching Dram, and away from lynching NACHO.

Your laziness is why you must die. Defending yourself by claiming "lazy" only makes me want you more dead.

[camn]

The town is better served by letting dramonic live for a day or two.
He is totally committed to giving us info every day.
He will not survive to endgame, as scum or town.
when he dies, we get more info from him, and we are better off REGARDLESS of his alignment.
Lynching him now robs the town of future information.

[camn]

...hai guys. Ahm. Nacho's a lurker lynch isn't he? Can somebody explain me why a lurker lynch is better than another lynch? (Please explain it like you would explain it to a 4 year old.)

Lurking IS scummy.. especially in a quick game like this.

Imagine you are scum.
Imagine there is a giant town-town battle.. like Clergyhoops vs. Drippereth.

What is your optimal play?

OBV. Stfu and let it happen.

Also.. lurkers don't get nightkilled.
Lurkers KILL us in endgame.. because we have no read on them. We have no posts to dig through.

Right now, we are ahead. We lynched one scum and have avoided some nighttime carnage. We can afford to try and hit some lurkerscum NOW.

[camn]

Whatever.
So we lynch both of you.

[camn]

No
We kill a couple, and everyone else stops lurking.
Plus you are scum, so that helps too.

[camn]

Would really rather lynch some of the obvious scum today.

Convince me, then.
Your arguments have been VERY unconvincing.

In fact, I'd like to point this out for you so you can improve your game.

You have fallen into a classic trap: ARGUING WITH SCUM

Here's the deal.. If someone is scum.. there is really no point in discussing it with them. They are never going to fold over and admit it. They are not going to vote

themselves

...

YOU HAVE TO CONVINCE THE REST OF THE TOWN

.
Thus, your argument shouldn't be toward them.. it should be ABOUT them... and directed TOWARD us.
This is the

essence

of an effective case.
Right or wrong, if you can't convince the town.. you can't achieve your desired lynch.
In THIS game, you have an incredible oppourtunity. Drip and I are both town, and we are both

bloodthisty bitches

. Convince either of US someone is scum, and we will choke the life out of them with our own hands.
You also have Yos as prob-town, who is one of the most level-headed players on the site. Convince

HIM

, and you can convince almost anyone.

So far you have failed.

[camn]

I am not convinced and also I already had nachos today.

What IS your opinion on Nacho?
I just noticed that you have VERY CAREFULLY avoided giving an opinion.
You said null read in your player-by-player/2
Then you have implied a couple times that he is NOT scummy....

Let's hear it out loud: Is Nacho scum? Are you trying to derail a wagon on your buddy?
Also.. when you said

The rest I have no comment on. I'm not explaining town reads.

Can I take that to mean you had TOWN READS on everyone that you did not comment on?

@ Spyrex: I agree. If we wipe out some lurkers, this will be a better game.

Also

FOS: Parama, Starbuck, Maemuki,Yosarian2, Weaboo

Vote now, please. This game needs an enema.

[camn]

And the other part?

[camn]

Old post should have read that I wasn't explaining town OR null reads.

OK.
I officially want to request a PROPER Player-by Player from you. Before deadline.
If you have a town or null read, please state which it is. You don't need to explain WHY (though that would help), just WHAT.
Avoiding giving us your reads is anti-town at

best

. I shouldn't have let you get away with a half-assed list earlier.

@ Weaboo. .I want one from you, too. God forbid you die tonight and flip town, and we are left without the glory of your insight!!

[camn]

Indeed.

As it is, Ythan has weasled out of really taking a stance on anyone.
He has either null or scum reads on EVERYONE.. thus can attack anyone in the game at any time without explaining why or when he started to think they were scummy.

PREVIEW EDIT:
@Ythan:
can I then interpret that as you having NULL reads on everyone NOT on your list... except Drip, who you have a town read on?

[camn]

A bit like how you have null or town on everyone in your list?.

Actually, that would be the opposite, if it were accurate.
TO attack someone, I would have to explain how my town read flipped to a scum read. I am vulnerable to consistency-checks throughout. My Null reads can slip to scum reads with minimal explanation, of course.

A very town position to be.

Having NO town reads lets one jump on any old wagon that suits one. One can be as opportunistic as they like.

NOT a very town position.

Having accountability for your reads is just fine.

And Dram.. why not investigate me, if I am so scummy? Because you are already convinced I am no vig.. and thus a waste of your scum-vestigation?

[camn]

Well.. I didn't think it really needed saying, but..

a) No, I don't think you are improving.
b) I have no evidence that your presence is 'incredible'. Many boys have promised me that.
c) You attempted deflection onto lurker-KMD is nonsense.
d) Policy lynches actually DO help discourage lurking. Your post was false.
and,
e) As I already stated. There is no upper limit on nefarious and complicated.

Does that cover everything?

Now, tell us who your buddies are before we string you up.
Still KMD, Spyrex and Ythan? is that your final answer?

[camn]

a) Yes, you are.

Starbuck, Weaboo and KMD should take note:
A few meaningless one-line posts and a fake argument with another lurker does NOT get you off the hook.

Besides,... lurking aside, you are scum.
Too bad you are lying fully about your buddies. Tell the truth!

[camn]

Ok lemme go check.

Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim can take a lifetime.

[camn]

You can't count?

DEAR WAGON ANALYZERS:
Ythan was NOT on the Nacho Wagon.

Nachomamma8: camn, SpyreX, Kmd, Drippereth, Dramonic, Weaboo ~

With 14 alive it take 8 to lynch

Vote:Nacho

And I contribute:

Unvote Vote: Nacho.

THATS THE HAMMER.....

Haylens bedtime is now...4am...

Along with repeated concern regarding vote count hijinks.... we get this late wagon-hop

unvote vote Nachomamma8

Vote count?

Someone just isn't even reading the thread anymore, I think.

[camn]

YAYAYAY!

Anon. I could ksis you. Seriously.

I have been reading along since I died.. and reading the scum QT, and I was going to die if we ended up losing.

GREAT bus in endgame there, Spyrex... but you were too scummerific, and Anon held fast! You should have had KMD do it!

GG scum. GG town. BAD GAME YTHAN.
I would like to point out . . if I Ythan hadn't made such an annoyance of himself.. I was ready to Vig KMD on lurker-grounds... which would have set up a near-perfect game if Drip had followed up with a Spyrex lynch.... but meh.


Yay.

Yay.

yay.

THis was my favorite game in a while.

[camn]

PS.. I was the vig.
AND .. I told you guys there was no-reveal!!

[camn]

Unwinnable??!

You came pretty close to call that unwinnable, my friend!

If you had left me alive another day..maybe.

They town had some big fumbles, too.... Deadline-Lynching Maemuki was garbage, for instance. Ythan might have well have been scum.

I thought it was good balance, good play both ways, overall.

[camn]

WHat happened with Clergyhoops, anyway?

[camn]

Hunting for a vig that didn't "exist" hurt.

I breadcrumbed it hard enough... if anyone had bothered it was right there

[camn]

I think that was just a N1 requirement, no?

[camn]

Thank YOU for replacing in and being so, so townie.

[camn]

I was so annoyed when I found out you were scum, and I had NOT vigged you for once!

[camn]

I enjoyed playing with you, Yos. In this and the other one, which we just won, BTW ...

[camn]

You were a town liability, IIRC.
There was a lot of meta-talk re: you, and I thought it was a distraction at best... and you were actually lurkerscum at worst?

Actually.. I just ISO'd you.. and I would Vig you again