Mafia 109 - A Glitch in time - Game Over!

[Ythan]

In my previous, smaller games, responding to everything while online didn't become a problem. With 17 players it has gotten out of hand. My bad.

[Ythan]

I expect my theories to be attacked along specific lines that can thereafter be discussed clearly rather than just generally.

[Ythan]

That is to say, if you just say "I don't like it" or "provide more evidence" what do you expect? What don't you like? What do you want to see more explicitly supported?

[Ythan]

FUUUUUCKK.

Lost my post. Up to Page 26. Well, Ythan scum. Parama scum. Serial/Hoop scum. Pulindar, scummy at first, but then town. Anon some scummy things but not extremely bad. Mae, bout the same level as Anon. That's about it. Not gonna remake that whole damn post. Any specific questions, post 'em and I'll answer. Need to read after 26 still.

Why, to everything.

[Ythan]

\No, you're wrong here. Pulindar wouldn't have reacted so calmly as scum, and he DEFINITELY wouldn't have responded to Ythan as much as he did. Goofball might not realize that, but I definitely know that Elli does.

Now all you need to do is make it convincing. The basis of the assertion, it's

cloudy

absent.

I think his point is that he needs to see everything explicitly supported. If no one knows what you are talking about, and no one really emphasises any of your points, then reexamine each of your points and give a good explaination for each.

Disagree, but that seems a personal matter. Blanket nos are unacceptable.

If

When I do it I don't expect to get what I want.

Also, you are seen as having tons of time because you post constantly for hours and hours on end I posted with you for over two hours, went to my cousin's house, came back and you had posted near constantly the entire time. Get a few more games sub into a game with like 50 pages and catch up there. use your time.

I blame homework on the internet.

If you want to use it just in this game then do that. make 10 posts instead of 50, but make them about four pages each in word rather than one liners. It provides more for people to talk about, puts fewer distractions in the game, and over all is better. plus if you focus on a few long strong posts you may be able to make a real case. If you have a real case, even against me, I'd love to see it.

Yeah this occurred to me but things were already underway. Expect to see it in the future (hopefully).

Right now you're posting so much that I'm having trouble finding other's cases. I have to read each person in ISO.
Ythan has 9
Drip has 6
Parama has 4
and then there are about 3 or 4 people with 2 pages. Ythan you have 9 pages, other than drip that's more than double everyone else, and other than parama and drip that's more than four times anyone else. four times times actually since most are just on their second page worth of posts you have more like six times anyone else. that's an exorbant amount. give more content, and less fluff you're making the game more difficult for everyone else to play.

Ain't that a bitch.

[Ythan]

I suppose when you're pushing for a lynch on someone you suspect you'll pony up more info. I can wait until then.

[Ythan]

To the undiscriminating eye I can see why.

[Ythan]

I will continue to spam out of spite as long as I continue to see anyone post inane stop spamming shit without reading the thread.

Don't spam in Blue please. ~ Hayl

[Ythan]

Can the issue of whether or not CSL was a threat be separated from the problem of the WIFOM of people who interacted with him yesterday?

[Ythan]

I brought it up. I MEAN

But seriously, I was thinking that he wasn't the most threatening player to the mafia and then had second thoughts when I saw Yos's post incorporating the possibility of mafia killing the townie they had defended to confirm him.

[Ythan]

Ythan

I want to say scum, but he could just be the second worst town player I've ever seen.

Do you have anything that doesn't sound like OMGUS whinging?

[Ythan]

I don't see the benefit in extending the day unless there is something specific that needs doing.

[Ythan]

I can vouch as well for relief at my own suspect not being quick hammered.

[Ythan]

Hydras in general have seemed to be throwing analysis(es?) around without tons of support. That's how I took it when I saw that one.

[Ythan]

Yeah that's incredibly overinterpretative.

[Ythan]

No, your interpretation is fine. His comment was overinterpretative of night actions.

[Ythan]

If and not when you flip town we get Parama tomorrow.

"Are you afraid of giving the answers?" Is this a joke because it's not a good one.

"Ythan, except for the fact that you're following on your master's heals" Spell heels right next time and your ass-pulled mudslinging will stick better.

"how is that over-interpretative?" Too great a stretch with too much surety behind it.

[Ythan]

Excuse me for not taking your clearing of him seriously.

[Ythan]

I understand that your interpretation of Para is dependent upon your interpretation of Clergy. Is the opposite true as well?

[Ythan]

I question it.

[Ythan]

If you want to question my tactics then a blanket comment like that isn't going to do shit to get you there.

As far as your questions, trying to paint them as dangerous to the people attacking you is ridiculous when it's clear that your role was under attack since long before you got here.

I actually did answer the question in the next bit. Great job there.

Yes.

If you're going to keep saying my reasons are wrong in the way you've been doing it and nothing else then die scum die.

[Ythan]

There is a purpose to the bickering. You'll see.

[Ythan]

Then maybe you're a GF?

[Ythan]

Thanks Hayl.

No Problem ^.^ ~ Hayl

[Ythan]

Pulindar why the hell did you just claim VT this early?

[Ythan]

The lady's made a request. The proper thing to do is oblige her.

[Ythan]

He said any other claim would be fake.

[Ythan]

I don't buy it. Nor do I buy your buddying with Drip.

[Ythan]

How do you account for everything else with a single "misclaim"?

[Ythan]

Claimed VT, if telling the truth, narrows down scum NK choices and also lynching choices. The former obviously is anti-town. The latter is arguable, maybe neutral. If lying, probably anti-town. PR trying to stay alive wouldn't claim in the manner you did. I say lynch.

[Ythan]

Loaded questions from?

[Ythan]

I do not feel my questions were stupid or pointless. Some of them were there to distract

Pardon?

I stand by the decision because it's not a role to keep secret.

How do you figure?

There's no point in claiming a false role that I don't have.

That's not exactly true considering that you're not confirmed town.

[Ythan]

That is true... My scumdar is spinning out of control... help!

I'm confused, what is your position on Pulindar? Is there some hydra disagreement going on or something else?

[Ythan]

I love how I'm summarily scum in Pulindar's book for no apparent reason other than that I attacked him. Also

I meant to do it before I was lynched.

It's not a bah post if you can still escape. You still have motives.

[Ythan]

The sort of read that indicates that you'd like to have the player there in lylo?

[Ythan]

Wagon I hammer flips scum.
Wagon I don't support flips town.
So the obvious result is to lynch me?

Idiotic oversimplification, approached only by idiotic stop spamming posts made in an attempt to discredit me instead of saying anything intelligent. :3

[Ythan]

Wagon I hammer flips scum.
Wagon I don't support flips town.
So the obvious result is to lynch me?

Idiotic oversimplification, approached only by idiotic stop spamming posts made in an attempt to discredit me instead of saying anything intelligent. :3

Are you even trying anymore?

Thanks for confirming it so clearly. Die obvious scum die.

[Ythan]

He is nothing but deflection. Explain that in the context of a good town player.

[Ythan]

That is a completely idiotic and meaningless response. But what do I expect.

[Ythan]

I'm gonna stop spamming though

Weakling.

[Ythan]

This is the second time wagons have been miscounted by two. Is something going on?

[Ythan]

Are you even allowed to do that?

When I saw it I was also like what. But it's just the hydra QT.

[Ythan]

I'm terribly confused. There wasn't a lynch?

[Ythan]

I'm not trying to live longer, I plan on dying tonight.

I have a serious question for you Ythan..

Why do you think you will die tonight?

Can I get an answer?

Don't worry I just said it. If I die tonight it will be by vig.

[Ythan]

I said a while back that I planned on dying tonight. Not really a serious comment. And now I can't see why I would be killed unless it was by a vig to get me to shut up.

[Ythan]

What exactly is it that is so compelling about the dramonic case? I'm hesitant to assume when you tell me to jump on.

[Ythan]

she may be town, doesnt change she's not a good source for reads...

@ Dramonic - if you're urging players to stop listening to us, it's because you know it's a mislynch.

Is this it?

[Ythan]

Second, the Nik wagon: Worst... Wagon... EVER...

I questioned him on this.

@Ythan: A case based on 1 post that isnt even scummy doesnt need to be dismantled. a combination of scum and misguided town (or borderline neurotic for Drip ) doesnt need a case to make a wagon. That's what's happening here.

DGB, I see where you're coming from, but I still am kinda sceptical, I've seen Nik scum and it didn't look like that.

I gave reason why I didn't think Nik was scum. Look a bit before throwing stuff randomly?

Didn't seem terribly sure. More "kinda sceptical".

Oh look, someone jumping to conclusions hastily, where have I seen this before?

While I don't mind the post right before this (not listed here) so much, I don't like this.

Eh, quite possibly scum.

[Ythan]

Unconvinced that dramonic is worse than Pulindar. May reconsider at some point my vote as dramonic is looking questionable and the Pulindar wagon is not really going anywhere.

[Ythan]

He's a fool if he needs to see the vote on him to know that it is time to claim. Know, dramonic, that if your claim is unfavorable you will have my vote as if I was contributing to your wagon beforehand.

[Ythan]

Pul you never actually made a case against me did you.

[Ythan]

DRAMONIC, YOUR NEXT POST IS TO INCLUDE A CLAIM. DGB AND I WILL NOT BE GRANTING YOU THE COURTESY WE GAVE CLERGYHOOP.

I back this threat up with a vote.

[Ythan]

In cases where it is best not to claim isn't it in order to get oneself lynched rather than someone else?

[Ythan]

Pul you never actually made a case against me did you.

Except that your posts don't really have substance ... no. I really should do that huh??

Thanks for pointing that out Ythan, I've got ten pages to ISO you tomorrow morning and point out why I think you're scum.

_____________________
@ Drip: You already said that you were giving Ythan the benefit of the doubt, I'm not. Though I should make a case and will soon.

McZombie has yet to post anything of consequence. There is no proof of towniness. Her vote on Nika was from the RVS. Pure coincidence. I normally don't like policy lynches, but it seems like McZombie's slot is not getting any attention and I don't like that. You can't call an empty spot town. We just don't know.

Weaboo, Still not sure about... something just feels off there. I can't make a case against Weaboo.

Yeah it'll really support your incessant OMGUSing when you look up something to support it after the fact.

[Ythan]

You're asking the mod to edit the rules midgame in order to prevent the occurrence of town demanding hydra QTs? Am I getting that right?

[Ythan]

Can you see why I might find this suspect?

[Ythan]

Wait no. The player saying this is hydra with the one who already showed. Nevermind that's not suspect.

[Ythan]

Wait no. The player saying this is hydra with the one who already showed. Nevermind that's not suspect.

Ok. And I'm agreeing with him. And I'ma hydra too. Am I suspect now?
Seriously, drop it.

What are you even talking about?

[Ythan]

Possibilities would be lone mafia faction, one of multiple mafia factions, vig, SK. Are there any points against any but the first?

[Ythan]

Aw, get well soon.

Are folks still pretty sure the CSL kill was a vig? I doubt a vig couldn't have found anyone to kill last night, so this means at least two prevented kills?

[Ythan]

No vig: Mafia killed CSL N1, failed N2.
Yes vig: Mafia failed N1 and N2, vig decided not or failed to kill N2.

I think the former is more likely.

Happy Birthday Ythan and Ythan II...and that was so weird refreshing the page to see a new avatar... ~ Hayl

[Ythan]

Thanks! Also I've decided Parama is town for now.

[Ythan]

Why did you wait to post your results until quoting me?

[Ythan]

MaB is still just as terrible in retrospect and Pulindar is still just as didn't fix the situation. Looking forward to the results of his "I'm going to look for reasons to support my vote on you" post.

vote Pulindar

[Ythan]

Why did you wait to post your results until quoting me?

[Ythan]

I find your explanations iffy.

[Ythan]

Thanks Captain Obvious.

[Ythan]

Your explanations are possible and yet the other is quite compelling. Nothing actually lends any credence to your claim besides the fact that it hasn't been disproved yet. This is a little different from you not liking my posting style.

[Ythan]

I find your explanations iffy.

I find your posting style iffy, doesn't make it a case

Actually it kinda does. I fail to see how Drippy needed to be investigated.

The possibilities seem to be either that he found Drip scummier than anyone else or that he didn't want to clear someone who wasn't nearly cleared already. Let's take a look at his past feelings on Drip.

[Ythan]

misguided town (or borderline neurotic for Drip )

you know, you should stop listening to Dripberreth fellas <<
she may be town, doesnt change she's not a good source for reads...

[Ythan]

I believe that he didn't even mention Drip

+ a

read on D1.

Also happy birthday~

Thanks~

they just say
X is scum
Y is town
lolz you scuummy:P
They're as much noise as Ythan is, except since it's DGB it's supposedly content.

You want to stick to something relevant for once?

[Ythan]

unvote vote dramonic

[Ythan]

For God's sake respond to something relevant.

[Ythan]

You're ignoring things.

[Ythan]

I'll scan who I think is anti-town, thank you very much

You said this, you know. And you failed to explain why your only mentions of Drip are hardly consistent.

[Ythan]

I think that his claim is a bit of a stretch for this forum, that there is nothing to support it other than the fact that it's yet to be disproved, and that the much more likely explanation is that he is lying.

[Ythan]

unvote vote dramonic

You guys really think lynching the claimed investigative role is the right move here?

It's curious how he wasn't roleblocked, isn't it?

Elaborate a bit?

[Ythan]

I would assume so. I don't think it's too WIFOM to assume that they wouldn't leave him to his own investigative devices.

[Ythan]

If the scum would be so kind as to tell us who they tried to kill.

[Ythan]

Weaboo has three fewer posts.

[Ythan]

I've been sharing propositions. From the start of the day I started doing one at a time, like I did both preceding days. But yeah I'll do that.

[Ythan]

If his choices make sense can you explain how?

[Ythan]

I'll scan who I think is anti-town, thank you very much

I understand not inspecting your top target but I'm not so sure he does.

[Ythan]

It's coming. There are a lot of people in this game.

[Ythan]

Parama

Found him scummy as hell yesterday. Now that the smoke has cleared I don't

for now. His push on CSL is still questionable though.

Nachomamma8

Needs to pick up the pace. This is a speed game. I can't get a read even

with questionable content if he's not around.

Miserable at Best
Pulindar

"MaB is still just as terrible in retrospect and Pulindar is still just as

didn't fix the situation. Looking forward to the results of his "I'm going

to look for reasons to support my vote on you" post."

dramonic

I'm voting dramonic right now because he is both scum and around to actually

get something out of. For my thoughts on this guy check out the ongoing

situation.

SpyreX

I generally don't like him but that wagon will come another day when he's

posted more and is perhaps somewhat active.

Weaboo

Same as Nacho but better.

The rest I have no comment on. I'm not explaining town reads.

[Ythan]

Shit I typed it out in a notepad and the word wrap fucked it up. It's clear right?

[Ythan]

I'm not a great read of voting patterns myself. Evidence (a simple explanation) of Parama bussing Nik would put him back on the map for me.

[Ythan]

You're looking at one of the lurker pile. There are players who are still hoping to lynch someone scummy.

[Ythan]

Drip would have been the most dangerous person to have in a scum position. Even if I was pretty sure she was town I still would have investigated him just to make sure.

Said he'd scan who he found scummy.

Didn't I say something eerily similar yesterday???

High five?

I was told, by both you and Drip that the thought that Mafia would go after CSL was a completely scummy thought. Heck, even Camn said that it wasn't a possibility she saw.

Not a scummy thought, just a very in depth story.

[Ythan]

Dramonic lynch is pretty non optymal even if he is scum

Meaning?

My advice to you would be to iso people, and just ignore Ythan. He's posted between 1/3 and 1/4 of all the posts in this game. Most of them are one liners with no content.

It made sense when Anon said it but parroting it to discredit someone who wants you lynch is just stupid. You're not stupid right?

[Ythan]

Ignoring all but the part you want to respond to is absurd. Calling someone's actions stupid is a much better argument than whatever you're doing.

[Ythan]

Why did I expect more from Pulindar?

Oh well, sitting on this dramonic vote for the time being.

[Ythan]

Reck here. I'm not going to bother with D2 so I can keep my head in the game. Why hasn't Ythan been lynched yet, exactly? He's spamming this thread with contentless posts and fluff so hard it's making my head spin.

Don't you have an LJ for this? My posting is a hell of a lot more relevant than yours if you keep this up. Same goes for Parama except he's also just generally bad.

[Ythan]

Dramonic be less horrible for a single post.

[Ythan]

I'm saying the people saying I'm vig hunting should explain to me why I'd investigate someone who yelled not vig at the top of its lungs.

Because you're lying. Are you keeping up?

[Ythan]

And of course note that the one guy who can't stop whining about my posting style instead of addressing the points made against him is the one I happen to have my vote on. Not that this doesn't figure when you take the rest of him into account.

[Ythan]

Since you asked so nicely.

Dramonic. Can't be bothered to actually do anything about the Nik wagon he hated so much. Whining about often negligible "spam" posts instead of addressing meaningful questions about the fact that he is scum. Claim post comes off as not genuine. Explanations for investigation targets come off as very not genuine, in particular when his stated method of determining a target doesn't match up with his own posts. Generally dismissive, which complicates the fact that he has so many questions to answer. Separate post for the other.

[Ythan]

Miserable at Best was undeniably scummy. His defenses were terribly dismissive, more or less trying to argue that he couldn't be lynched for links to confirmed scum. Placed an OMGUS vote then replaced out under pressure.

Pulindar does the old "Scummy predecessor doesn't count" routine. The fact that this would even come up raises alarms. Gets extremely defensive over it, which really varies from person to person but it can't hurt to throw it in. Defensive as in OMGUS ad hom bullshit by the truckload, calling me scum more or less solely for attacking him. This hasn't improved at all. I no longer feel sorry for him for replacing into such a scummy spot because he clearly would have gotten himself lynched anyway if he had been there from the start.

[Ythan]

Inane. Don't we have a day vig or something?

[Ythan]

No YOU!

What's the word, fixed?

[Ythan]

Until you care to actually address what's so "weak" about my points quit wasting time doing nothing. Don't even bother to post if you're not going to involve yourself in the game. Accusations have been leveled, address them or lurk. Then again, there is active lurking.

[Ythan]

The white noise is there so the rest of the town has something to do while I pick out the scum.

[Ythan]

I said can't stop whining. That would be one player.

If you think a wagon is wrong and you don't do anything about it guess what, you're a bad townie or not a townie.

My belief is fact.

What your investigations do go against is your own claimed strategy for investigation. Blatantly.

And yes keep whining about spamming while I'm clearly attacking your scummy play. That doesn't come off as pointless, dismissive, bitter, or just plain idiotic.

[Ythan]

A not unwise argument. Reviewing. Still, I don't want to listen to him blithering on until the end. This game isn't as speedy as I expected.

[Ythan]

You don't say.

[Ythan]

Would really rather lynch some of the obvious scum today.

[Ythan]

I don't have Yos as prob-town. I have Yos as not-scum-yet. But ok.

[Ythan]

The nacho wagon is better; he hasn't done anything to convince me he's protown, really.

I assume since the second part of this sentence is after a semicolon and not a comma that it's a good wagon for you because he hasn't convinced you he's protown?

[Ythan]

I am not convinced and also I already had nachos today.

[Ythan]

I'm not avoiding giving an opinion. This is the first I've seen anyone ask directly what I think of Nacho. Trying to extrapolate that I'm scum off of that is a bit of a stretch. Fact is that I don't get scum vibes from him, and I don't get town vibes from him. There's even less to explain on null players than town ones. I would like to see him post more but with obvious scum in the game I can't support a policy lynch when he's not even lurking anymore as far as I can tell.

[Ythan]

Less than 24 hours. He's going to be lynched at deadline anyway.

[Ythan]

Old post should have read that I wasn't explaining town OR null reads.

[Ythan]

By the way, on both of the past two days we (players generally) thought we hammered and it turned out to be L-2. Is this a coincidence or something weird?

[Ythan]

Denied. I gave you what I'm going to give you today and explained why you're not getting more.

[Ythan]

Live Journal. It's where people whine about things typically.

[Ythan]

Personal thing, I'm not obliged to go through the trouble of producing anything labor intensive that I just said I'm not doing just because you said do it. Best you're going to get is that my only meaningful town read is you, Drip.

[Ythan]

I've taken stances. Your constant attempt to brush that aside and paint my lack of detailed town and null reads is getting absurd.

That's probably all moot though because yes to your preview edit question.

[Ythan]

Most answers don't lead to anything, but you can't be sure to find the ones that do unless you ask a lot of questions.

[Ythan]

Yos, do you read a number of posts by most of the players in the game as scumhunting? Enough that one without such posts is suspicious?

[Ythan]

What.

[Ythan]

I see a "funniest role claim" nomination in my crystal ball.

It's official! Pulindar is scum.

[Ythan]

Ok lemme go check.

[Ythan]

Wouldn't just straight up admitting his alignment violate playing to his win condition? It doesn't seem as if there was a ton of pressure on him or anything. Still not sure what's going on.

[Ythan]

YOU might as well surrender too.

[Ythan]

If he's going down for the good of scum then it makes sense that scum would be on the wagon. Unless the good he's doing for scum is incriminating those on his wagon? This isn't exactly a situation with which I am familiar.

[Ythan]

Jesters aren't Normal are they?

unvote vote Nachomamma8

[Ythan]

There was, is, no rush. I had a few minor questions but they weren't really going anywhere so I just settled. By the way folks, pay attention to the L-0/L-2 issue if that comes up again like it did the last two days.

[Ythan]

Vote count?

[Ythan]

I'm curious. Past two days we had voters think they hammered and both times it turned out to be L-2.

[Ythan]

It better not be.

[Ythan]

And her name is camn.

[Ythan]

I won.

[Ythan]

Town gf threw me. Since they tend to be scum, nk-immune, investigation-immune, and send in their faction's nk, I had no idea what was going on. Obv not scum, obv not nk-immune, what would be the point of investigation-immune. I assumed it was the head of a vigimason faction.

[Ythan]

Tough break for Clergyhoop. I'm sure they weren't thinking they were crossing the line when it happened. Glad to see that it didn't cost their faction in the long run.

[Ythan]

I still like my vigimason interpretation.