/in-Vitational Game 4 (Game Over!)

[zu_Faul]

/confirm

[zu_Faul]

Vote: Thesp

[zu_Faul]

zu_Faul, why? I thought we were friends.

I thought that was a good reason.

@e_k: Slips are way overrated. I don't remember seeing a slip finding scum (outside a Newbie game, though even there nothing springs to mind).

Also, it does not make a lot of sense for Xyl and BNB to be buddies anyway since she started the wagon.

Could be scum trying to distance, obv. What BNB said.

Unvote, Vote elvis_knits

[zu_Faul]

I still think my vote is in the right place. Arguments like

I seem to remember Yos slipping on the number of scum in dynamite stick mafia. (I'm sure I've seen others too). If Yos can do it, anyone can do it.

are totally weak (and not statistically relevant, as Yos explained himself).

But now I am less certain (if there is a thing like "certain" on page 8 in a 20-player game) of e_k scum than I was in my last post. This is because of what she wrote in post 172.

It has been some time since I was not dissatisfied with any of the early bandwagons. Normally I'd see at least one wagon, whose victim I would defend. But e_k, BAB, ekiM and Xyl all did not seem that bad as targets.

[zu_Faul]

i get the feeling kmd/bridges found themselves in a 4 person scumgroup, assumed that the sample role pms would simply state as much and therefore presented the information. upon discovering that the sample pms actually account for up to five scum, they are both now struggling to come up with reasons why they assumed 4, with such charming excuses as "i thought there were only 16 players." really? you haven't been paying attention to the more than a month long game placement process and announcement which very clearly indicated you had been placed in a 20 person game with only people who you were interested in playing with, or at the very least were not adverse to playing with? i don't buy it.

This sounds awfully constructed. Paying attention to the number of players is mandatory, but paying attention to te role pms is not? And the fact that it is a 20-player game has not been a "month-long process". That has only been established a short time ago

Really? "4 scum plus a traitor" was supposed to be sarcastic? I didn't get that at all. Has that been what others have been assuming all along?

I honestly don't see the humor there. Like, what is the joke?

I thought the sarcasm was obvious. Maybe you should take a step back more often.


I am up to post 205.

[zu_Faul]

Well charter, your reason was not very good in the first place, was it? That is what BAB was trying to say here.

I am up to date. I don't buy the BAB wagon anymore.

[zu_Faul]

Well charter, your reason was not very good in the first place, was it? That is what BAB was trying to say here.

I am up to date. I don't buy the BAB wagon anymore.

The main reason I'm suspicious of BAB is his manner of leaving of the Xyl wagon to join the Elvis one.

If Xyl dies, turns up scum and BAB is still alive, this would make a really good point against BAB (or the other way round). I am not too fond of it at the moment.

[zu_Faul]

I am up to date. I don't buy the BAB wagon anymore.

When did you ever buy it?

Post 184.

It has been some time since I was not dissatisfied with any of the early bandwagons. Normally I'd see at least one wagon, whose victim I would defend. But e_k, BAB, ekiM and Xyl all did not seem that bad as targets.

Pretty much all you've done is take pot shots at those that are suspicious of him.

This is plainly wrong. I did not attack anyone because they were accusing BAB. I made a comment at rofl and one at you. I doubt those really qualify as "attacks".
Saying something like this is just wrong.


Are you reading the same game I am reading?

[zu_Faul]

Oh, I did not answer your question.

I am not sold on BAB's townieness, but I don't think she deserves the spotlight she is currently getting.

[zu_Faul]

I am not sold on BAB's townieness, but I don't think she deserves the spotlight she is currently getting.

Why not?

Because there are players who are actually doing scummy things.

---

Shabba seems more inexperienced as opposed to scummy. Got to keep in mind for the next days, but I'd give her a chance to make her behaviour better.

Xyl's vote and accusations hop around too much for my taste.

Herodotus' lurker hunt is not yet a good idea.

BAB plays pro-townish; the initial accusations were not bad, but I have not yet seen further indication of his scumminess. Players who make a scummy thing and then disapp; ared completely should rather be persecuted. ekiM for example.[/hr]

[zu_Faul]

I am not sold on BAB's townieness, but I don't think she deserves the spotlight she is currently getting.

Why not?

Because there are players who are actually doing scummy things.

Can you tell me which players you think these are?

I gave comments in my last post. I mentioned at least two people, and my vote is on a third. I suspect you are not actually asking me those questions because you want the answers, but because of an other reason. Probably you just did not read the part of the message not directed at you.

---

I add Shabba to my list of suspects for that post because #1 is scummy as hell and because she asks for four people's opinions on wagons but has given no opinion on anyone herself.

Post 293

---

Stalling the game is a bad idea.

---

zu_Faul and Shabba have shown minor tinges of scumminess, but I wouldn't say I have a great read on either as yet.

Huh? Is this just gut feeling I have to disregard?

---

zufaul - seems to stop progress for no reason (slowing attacks on bridges, shabba, discouraging herodotus's lurker hunt, reprimanding xyl for too much vote hopping... these all impede the progress of a game. Pressuring people gives us better reads, so what zu is doing is bad).

This is my usual scum-hunting tactic. It works pretty well.
(/in before people accusing me of hypocrisy. It is much different from halting the game like BAB wants to, as what he is doing does not provide us with any more information, while slowing the impetus (on people who are not scummy) is doing so.)

---

Ojanen's point about KMD was quite good:

The wifom Kmd uses re: the vanilla claim gives my gut a townish feeling. Too obvious to likely deflect from scumbuddy, too obscure and likely to get flak to be a typical scum distancing from mislynch.

---

@zu Faul, ekiM, alexhans:
Do you think the paragraph under the last quote in roflcopter 298 is a valid scumtell?

No. Some people just don't like something wrong standing in the room, even if it benefits them, regardless of alignment. I think I have been so in my early days here.

Why are you asking the question to ekim, alexhans and me?

---

I totally don't get Xyl's unvote. It would be helpful if he went a bit more into detail on his thoughts. He has not produced anything more than one-liners until now. He is just watching and not acting, so he is hiding.

[zu_Faul]

PS: While I am against waiting on a lynch just because we can, I'd love to hear more from iamusername, serialclergyman and especially ekiM before deadline.

[zu_Faul]

For several reasons I don't have time right now to make a post with content.

I am sorry.

[zu_Faul]

I'd love to hear more from iamusername, serialclergyman and especially ekiM before deadline.

What in particular do you want me to say?

Anything game-related will do.

zufaul - seems to stop progress for no reason (slowing attacks on bridges, shabba, discouraging herodotus's lurker hunt, reprimanding xyl for too much vote hopping... these all impede the progress of a game. Pressuring people gives us better reads, so what zu is doing is bad).

This is my usual scum-hunting tactic. It works pretty well.
(/in before people accusing me of hypocrisy. It is much different from halting the game like BAB wants to, as what he is doing does not provide us with any more information, while slowing the impetus (on people who are not scummy) is doing so.)

Can you explain your approach more and how it helps you tell allignments? Because I don't understand how it's scum hunting to stop wagons on people who you've said yourself are not entirely townie. How do you get info this way?

I am not stopping the wagons.

Slowing down something allows you to look at it more closely. I think it is quite simple.

Also, you don't mind the hordes of people saying that you are probably town; it's only fair if others get this service as well.


Good thinking in the last post though. If you are going to answer Thesp's question about me in a satisfactory manner, I'll unvote you. After all, you have not done any news scummy things, since the KMD-slip action. There is a higher density in other player's scummy-posts-to-post ratio (obviously, this is not the only thing which determines my vote - for example, my vote right now stays because I first want the question answered). It stayed on you for so long, because no one else really stood out to me as more scummy.

I'm not sure whether BaB is town or scum.
I'm pretty sure that among the people voting him now or having unvoted him recently, there are more than one scum. I feel it best to scumhunt from among the voters.

This would only be relevant if the (expected) density of scum on that bandwagon would be higher than in the town as a whole. When you doubt even that, like you do, it makes no sense to limit your scope in this way.


@Ojanen: You did not answer my question from the previous post.

Also, I am curious, as a general question to people:

As scum, have you ever claimed vanilla?

Yes.

BTW, @Zu_faul and @Herotodus: Agree/Disagree on each of my three cases? Would you vote any of them?

I've already stated I am suspicious of ekiM. If he does not return with some pro-townish posts, I'll vote him (note: this has nothing to do with the point in time when he returns, but with the content of hi posts when he returns).
Most people are attacking Yos2 for meta reasons. I don't think I ever played a game with him, at least not in recent times. Scumchat Yos is a bit different, but you can't really compae I guess. In general, I find his behaviour (atl east in the beginning, sitting back and watch) more annoying than scummy.
I don't see Thesp as scummy. His behaviour is consistent. He always plays this agressive.


Attacking B&B for the Xyl-&-him-are-not-scumpartners-thing is still stupid.

[zu_Faul]

players who make a scummy thing and then disapp; ared completely should rather be persecuted. ekiM for example

No, I was V/LA. Any actual questions, ask them.

We are playing Mafia, not 20 Questions.

PS: While I am against waiting on a lynch just because we can, I'd love to hear more from iamusername, serialclergyman and especially ekiM before deadline.

Are we anywhere near deadline? I think it's only been about a week since the game started... Anyway, you will hear more from me. I was V/LA.

Sorry, I meant lynch when I wrote deadline.

[zu_Faul]

Slowing down something allows you to look at it more closely. I think it is quite simple.

There is a practical limit to this which has a point of diminishing returns for this, which is rapidly accelerated in larger games.

Like everything, it is only good in moderation. You think I overdid it already?
I am not sure that this goes quicker in large games than in smaller ones. I have to think about this. But this point is theory and irrelevant in this game, I think.

[zu_Faul]

Comments like this are similarly not helpful:

I am not sold on BAB's townieness, but I don't think she deserves the spotlight she is currently getting.

Why not?

Because there are players who are actually doing scummy things.

^^ And NO mention of who these people are and the scummy things they're doing.

I mentioned TWO people in the post you were quoting.

How is that helpful to the town? You're raining on the BaB wagon, but you're not sold he's town.

I am attacking the bad reasons to vote for B&B, not the good ones. Why would it be pro-town to have bad accusations linger around? Better decisions are made if there are only good reasons. Even if those may not be the decisions you like.

Furthermore, I don't see "slowing bandwagons down" as a pro-town strategy. Perhaps I am missing something, but this is how I think:

Unless you have a STRONG pro-town read on a player, you should not slow down a wagon on them. Reasons include: 1)Wagonee might be scum, you just haven't seen it yet; 2)Wagonee might be town and letting the wagon go on them might make this clearer and also might make wagoners give themselves away as scum.

I want to be able to judge the wagoner by their response, and also, for the town to feel able to vote freely. That way scum feel able to vote freely, and it will be easier to catch them through reasoning or timing that feels "off."

I do not understand why zu would stop a wagon on someone who he doesn't feel confident in their allignment. A wagon can only help make allignment clearer.

My theory is backed up. I tested it. It is not fooproof or always works, but it is, in my opinion, good. Is yours backed up? Or are you just saying something which in theory sounds nice, but has no foothold in reality?

OR, if you absolutely have to stop a bandwagon on another player, you should atleast provide other avenues of discussion, which zu hasn't been doing. Although I guess in his last post he expressed some mild suspicion on iamausername and ekiM. Although it was more a plea for more participation than any kind of attack.

Oh, you are obviously not up-to-date. Please mark your posts as such, or be up-to-date. Seriously, making an accusation agaisnt me, when I had LA, but then ignoring what I said after I returned is seriously unhelpful. You have obviously not read my latest post. You accuse me of things I explained in that. How can this ever be pro-town? Instead, you make posts where you want people to hammer another player, while you have not even read the most recent posts. My vote will stay on you.

[zu_Faul]

Also, zu, why were you all about hopping on my bandwagon if your winning strategy is to slow wagons down? You certainly didn't try to slow mine.

I thought that was a very valid bandwagon.


I don't see where I was accusing iamusername of anything in my last post, that is why I think you did not read my latest post. If I am wrong sorry, I guess I was a bit too frustrated.


I must admit, you made some really good points about the proportion of the scummy stuff made by people and me not attacking BAB.

My theory worked really well in the "Quack Multiball" Mini. I was able to find two scum in two tries. I can't talk about ongoing games. As I don't play a lot of games, I think this is somewhat significant.
I don't think bandwagoning is not good. I am just trying to exploit it further. It is still somewhat experimental, I must admit, but I wanted to try something new. Can't you see how it can work in theory?

---

Well now. Maybe I was wrong all the time, and elvis_knits was right. So I reread BAB in isolation.

The reason for first voting Xyl, then elvis is stupid. I think this is what I meant when I said that the wagon was initially warranted. Then there is a long time where she does nothing scummy (I already said enough times why I disregard the "scum with Xyl" argument). With someone this under pressure and in the spotlight and no further signs of scumminess, I can only rule him town. The vanilla claim... well, it should not be an excuse to not lynch BAB, but I won't vote him because of it.

---

I said I'd probably unvote e_k after she answers Thesp's question. I did not because I thought she was not reading my posts; I hope she can answer the questions I asked her at the top of this page; I am giving her the benefit of the doubt for now. Her most recent posts all looked pretty townish to me.

Unvote: elvis_knits

[/hr]

[zu_Faul]

363 zu_faul says stalling the game is a bad idea. He also says his usual scum hunting tactic is to slow down the game. The fuck?

Gogogo team misrepresentation.

zu_Faul 184 is going with the flow. Says his vote for Elvis is in the right place, and yet he's less certain of Elvis-scum. Also he likes all current bandwagons. This is no contribution at all.

Yes, I have been going with the flow with the elvis vote the whole game

zu_Faul 280 is horrific. Says spotlight should be on players doing scummy things. Names Shabba as inexperienced not scum. Says Xyl is moving too much. Says Herod shouldn't lurker hunt. Says I'm scummy for being V/LA. Says B&B initial accusations were not bad. And yet we shouldn't be pressuring B&B? What? Why on Earth not?

Gogogo team mosrepresentation. You were not exactly very verbose before you went V/LA. Also, I said you made something scummy before you left. I did not just accuse you for lurking. I also have explained why we should not pressure B&B that much.

[zu_Faul]

zu_faul has posted way too little

I was on V/LA for a long time during this game, which I announced in my sig and in thread. I don't see why this is important when you are V/LA, but not for me. When I was here I posted quite regularly. Even in total I posted more than several people who wehere not V/LA.

[zu_Faul]

I know, right now I am not very agressive towards anyone; I have not really been the entire game. I feel that today I can't make a worthwhile post anymore. A good night's sleep will make it better for me, so tomorrow I can start fresh.

This post serves to inform you that I am not turtling.

[zu_Faul]

Which game, VP Baltar? I assumed that his absense was legitimate.

I think Thesp is a good citizen.

There are still some questions directed at ekiM, would love an answer.

[zu_Faul]

See Family Guy where Charter insisted that Wolf had slipped. I called it BS all game. Charter and Wolf were both scum. Kinda funny looking back. But you can pull my reaction from that game if you'd like.

OMG I forgot that one -- I was in that game too. Charter and wolf were both scum, but that only means wolf DID MAKE A SLIP. So you remember that one, kmd, so you know it is possible for scum to make slips. Doesn't that make you rethink your position about slips being BS?

*sigh*

If people get accused for slips all of the time, it is only natural that some of them turn out scum. They even could have made the same "slip" if they were town. This proves nothing.
On the other hand, Yos2's point againt kmd is actually good.

But

Vote: SerialClergyman

for now. He needs some pressure on him. ekiM needs to post as well as him.

[zu_Faul]

Zu, were you in that game? Have you read it? Why are you dismissing my example out of hand? Wolf made a statement that he knew a person was town while he voted to lynch that same person. Fact is he was scum. How/why would a town person have done that?

The point is, here in this game, KMD's bhaviour can easily explained otherwise.
Scum may completely drop the ball (as it happened in that game as it seems), but don't yell "Slip!!" at every opportunity.

Zu, what point did Yos make against me that you agree with?

Your persistance in voting e_k for the stuff from yesterday; also you are completely ignoring anything e_k said afterwards.

Runner up prize: zu faul - you finally get into the game by voting me, mentioning it's a pressure vote and saying nothing else about me. I feel more pressure on me to shave my ugly facial hair than I feel from that limpy vote.

I wish I could be as cool as you, SerialClergyman. Could you send me an autograph?

At least the others who had voted me had bothered to have a look and see the levels of posting discrepency. (note it's not just mafia 96, I've also been pretty active in Welcome to Foggylondontown, but I've also been very lurky in Webcomic Wars. It's a mix of how late the game has gone on and limited time. Thankfully I'm at night and in a quiet patch in the two most active games so here I am.)

The others were in those games. I believed them. I have no time to check your games. Especially with search down. Who do you think you are?
There was no commenting on your posts, because there were none. If the others commeted on you posting in other games it was totally random who commented on you and who not.

And this is your reason for calling me the second most scummy person? My vote stays. You had a chance to come back in the game and all you produce is some questions and an attack on Yos2.


@iamusername:
First accusing me. Then voting me, without me making a post in the mean time? Why not vote me in the first post? It seems like you only waited for some reassurance (which you got). Seems like a scum move to me.

363 zu_faul says stalling the game is a bad idea. He also says his usual scum hunting tactic is to slow down the game. The fuck?

Gogogo team misrepresentation.

How?

It is easy. "Stalling" means waiting for a lynch just because deadline has not run out yet. What I do to scum hunt is jsut slowing down the wagon. Those are two strictly different things.a


Scum are SerialClergyman and ekiM. ekiM makes terrible points now to compensate for his lack of making points yesterday. Same with Serial; also the stuff I mentioned above.
There is somethin about Xyl which terribly bugs me, but I can't point a finger to it. Easily listening to rofl jsut now, for example, does not strike me as a pro-town move. But somehow I believe he is actually on our side. Like my head says "scum" and my gut feeling says "town".
I had a pro-town read on iamusername before his voting. Going to overthink this, as it was weird (see above).

[zu_Faul]

I had a pro-town read on iamusername before his voting. Going to overthink this, as it was weird (see above).

So you no longer think he's pro-town because he voted you?

I said "(see above)". If you had read above that, you would have seen what I found strange about the way he voted. It was that he said he'd like to vote me, someone else also found me scummy, and THEN he voted me, without me making a post in the meantime. So what changed his opinion?

Posts like what you just did are what I meant with "terrible posts". You jump at shadows (like just now, you accuse me of OMGUS, when I explain the reason for my "suspicion" in the same post) (and don't you dare say that there was not an implicit accusation in your question)(and you already did it yesterday), and, like e_k just said, you try to not have an opinion.

[zu_Faul]

Well, I would argue both of those points are born from my case on him.

That does not matter at all. You are attacked for things you did that were scummy. Is Yos2 not allowed to attack you for those scummy things just because it was aimed at him? I don't think so.

Regardless - as I'm 'so scummy' with an ominous ellipsis, would you mind sharing the rest of your reasons with everyone?

It's dangerous to go alone.
Take this:



(for the humor-impaired, I am accusing him of fishing)


Also, I reread the BAB-Yos situation. What SerialClergyman says at the top of this page is just untrue. It is not that BAB "just told" Yos about his reasons. It is:
BAB: Yos is scum for X.
Yos: X is false. BAB still has not answered my points. And is scum.
BAB: Nonono, wait I voted you for Y and Z!

BAB did not reply to the points Yos2 made against him.

I mean, in the end Yos2 was wrong, but so were several other players. I don't see how he is scummy because of that. SerialClergyman is misrepresenting what Yos2 said hard.
People, don't play from your memory, read the stuff. And vote SerialClergyman please

[zu_Faul]

I said "(see above)". If you had read above that, you would have seen what I found strange about the way he voted. It was that he said he'd like to vote me, someone else also found me scummy, and THEN he voted me, without me making a post in the meantime. So what changed his opinion?

First accusing me. Then voting me, without me making a post in the mean time? Why not vote me in the first post? It seems like you only waited for some reassurance (which you got). Seems like a scum move to me.

So he was too afraid to vote you until one other person, who is under heavy suspicion, also voiced some suspicion of you? That's your theory?

I reread. Apparently, his vote was just a pressure vote. I seem to have confused his post with SerialClergyman's or something. I am sorry.
Pro-town read on iamusername restored, obv.

I don't get what you want to say with the picture.

[zu_Faul]

I don't get what you want to say with the picture.

It's a tiny violin. Possibly the smallest in the world.

But what does it

mean

.

[zu_Faul]

I really dont understand the serial case. Anyone?

Lurking, lying, trying to not have an opinion other than "Yos is scum" and "KMD looks town". His posts don't seem like he wants to find scum, they look like he wants Yos2 lynched. He's also fishing for roles.


Thanks, elvis_knits, for the explanation of the smallest violin. I disagree with ekiM's assertion that my point is tiny.
ekiM looked really scummy on page 26, with all the "tell me who they find scummy." thing. What does it have to do with anything if player A can't tell from the top of her head who player B and C find suspicious? Scumminess has nothing to do with player A's memory.

[zu_Faul]

zu_faul

So, right from the start, we've got some scumminess here with the pretty blatant setting himself up to go along with whatever is convenient by claiming he is not dissatisfied with any of the major wagons. The rest of his contribution on D1 consists pretty much entirely of speaking out against the BaB wagon without making any attempt whatsoever to get any alternative going. He claims that his attempting to slow the BaB wagon is his usual scumhunting strategy, but if that is the case, what scum did it help him find?

Yeah it is like I did not attack elvis_knits at all...

The slowing down did not really work as I wanted it to. But I got some reads.

There's also a few times where he says something without explaining it, and acts like he has already explained it in a previous post, despite this not actually being the case. Example; "I already said enough times why I disregard the "scum with Xyl" argument" in this post. Not true. He's said several times that he disagrees with the argument, but reading his posts, I don't have a clue

why

he disagrees with it.

It seems I got confused about what I actually said in thread and what was only in my head. If you had asked directly, I would hav told you.

Then D2, he's decided to go after Serial because "You had a chance to come back in the game and all you produce is some questions and an attack on Yos2." This falls into the same problem I had with rofl above; he's dismissing the attack on Yos2 out of hand without giving any thought to the validity of the action. Secondly, this is some amazing hypocrisy; what has zu produced up to this point? He makes much the same point on ekiM, too. Those are easy, easy targets. zu has been just completely coasting, I really can't see anywhere that he's put any serious effort into scumhunting at all.

Yes, my vote on e_k was just coasting along the obvious bandwagon >.>
I already showed that I think that SerialClergyman is lying a lot in his accusations against Yos2.

[zu_Faul]

@Yos, zu_Faul, tajo, roflcopter: please kindly list the other games if any you are currently in.

None.

Unvote: SerialClergyman

. Actually, he is talking some sense right now.

Vote: ekiM

I don't have time right now, I had a guest over the weekend who stays until tonight. I only skimmed the VP arguments; look closer at them tonight.

Well, alright, I'll ask directly now, then. Why did you disregard that argument?

I could perfectly buy some pro-town player being zealous and attacking all forms of bad logic (or suspected bad logic), even if this bad logic is to their benefit. I could hardly see scum do that.

[zu_Faul]

@zu_Faul, can you be more precise in what you liked about SC's posting that lead you to unvoting?
I found your original reasons stated to be in a very dramatic and somewhat suspect form with the general accusations of lying and rolefishing etc. In comparison the unvote is vague.

Especially the well-thought attack on ekiM. In his posts I can see that sometimes I don't understand his points really well, but... it is hard to describe, it is like the more I read his posts, the townier they look.

Want to lynch:
charter, ekiM

Using too much of my patience:
Pooky

VP Baltar's wagon grew way too fast to not suspect some baleful influence (well, this is somewhat regardless of his alignment - scum would want to be on that wagon either way). The way he attacks ekiM somewhat clears VP for me (a bit like with serialclergyman). His somewhat random attacks on me don't look too much like scum either.

Charter:

Where did your "I think Thesp is a good citizen" come from ZuFaul (other than left field)?
ZuFaul also hindered just about everything he could day one, which EK touched on.

Whereas I said on SerialClergyman that his "fishing" was just icing on the cake (now I don't believe it myself anymore - I said when I found him scummy it added weight, but now it does not), here we have a very blatant case of an eager fisherman.

Yes, sure I hindered everything I could, by not finding BAB scummy >.> I can find you many quotes from Day 1 where I did not hindered something. Only my defense of BAB was pretty strong I must say. I don't repent, I would do it again.

Charter's accusations after he reread were also pretty weak. It seems like scum going to attack players who aren't in the vicinity of being lynched (esp. Thesp).
Also I had some suspicions on him on Day 1 already.

Going to look into Yos2 case on Wednesday, when I got more time, SerialClergyman.

[zu_Faul]

Someone asked me about my opinion on Yos2.

I think it is really obvious that Yos2 is not the lynch today, and probably also not tomorrow. Because it is so obvious I am not telling you guys any further.

Last pages were mainly town people discussing, while charter posted scummily again. I am worried about Xyl a bit now. I consider using my head here.

I'd never want to lynch Thesp now. Even after the directing the vig. Or maybe because of it?

More later this evening.

[zu_Faul]

Everyone who said some variation on "but xyl is just playing so transparently" is town, btw.

I don't remember anyone saying that. Who are you referring to?

One of those is me, that is right. But I also said that it was only gut and that my head told me something different than my stomach.
What I have seen in the last pages though makes me really rethink my stance on Xyl. It is hard to pinpoint exactly, because my read has been weird all the time.
Also, I got so many town reads atm, there must be some scum left over.

Claim please, Xyl.

[zu_Faul]

One of those is me, that is right. But I also said that it was only gut and that my head told me something different than my stomach.

This is an entirely normal townie reaction to my playstyle.

As much as I appreciate this, this is no statement about your alignment; to me it seems like it is intended as one, so I am making this clear.

[zu_Faul]

"VP Baltar's wagon went too fast for him to be town" is an extremely crappy argument.

Did you mean to say "scum" there?
I agree that the speed of the wagon has nothing to say about

his

alignment. Maybe that of the people on the wagon, but not really n his.

That said, I could settle for a Baltar lynch. The Xyl lynch looks more tasty right now.
I am going to bed now, we'll see if the new day brings a new wagon, a lynch already, or *gosh* maybe even a claim. If it brings none of these, I guess I'll hammer.

[zu_Faul]

Gooooooood Mooooooooooooooooooooooooooorning Mafiascuuuuuuuuuuuuuuum!

Vote: Xylthixlm

.

[zu_Faul]

Vote: Charter

FoS: Pooky

No time for more right now.

[zu_Faul]

I can't believe you guys are still desperately trying to misinterpret KMD.

I got a feeling Baltar is not the way to go. I doubt he was investigated by Ojanen. She did not even mention him until others voiced their suspicions of him.

Pooky has done nothing to easy my suspicions. His argument against VP Baltar is: "Well, Goon Cop voted him." Also, he is trying to misinterpret KMD. It looks like he grabs whatever argument is conveniently lying around, regardless of its value, instead of actual scumhunting.

[zu_Faul]

If the main reason to dislike charter is because how hard he was pushing for Xyl and derailing VP, that only makes sense for scumcharter if VP is scum. Otherwise he could have just hammered or kept quiet.

It's not the main reason.

I now that that my reason for unvoting SerialClergyman yesterday was not that good. I get a scummy read out of him during the last posts.

[zu_Faul]

Vote tajo

I think kmd/tajo are scum. Tajo has escaped all scrutiny but does not look his normal town self, at all. I will try and elaborate later. Kmd

IS

guilty of failure to be town.

I still don't like charter.

Tajo hasn't participated enough for my liking, but he seems town to me.

And charter's failure to give reasons is not a good sign.

And his failure to comment on current issues with iam/rofl is disturbing.

unvote kmd; vote charter

I don't know what roles/info IAUN and rofl have, so I don't see why I should tell them how to play those roles. I'm pretty sure they are both competent and can figure out how best to divulge anything. I really hate when someone tries to play your role for you or has to have every single detail revealed immediately.

Poster child for non-comittance.

SerialClergyman looks like serious scum again. So does ekiM. For blindly following IAUN, but not rofl, when both have done essetially the same.

I guess after the dust settle I will be voting one of IAUN and rofl. For now, I can't tell whom.

[zu_Faul]

I think iamausername is trying to tell us something.

unvote;
Vote: roflcopter.

(This is the full post)

Nobody suggested lynching roflcopter without more info.

Looks like a retcon.


I also don't see why rofl should claim before IAUN. Is there a good reason for it? Obviously the one who is claiming second has a significant advantage.

[zu_Faul]

Pooky gets away with everything.

@KMD: Weird, the only times you mention my name is in those lists; if I am so scummy as you claim, why have you neither told anyone before nor told any reasons as for why I am this high in that list.

[zu_Faul]

I wanted to post yesterday already, but the server was down for me.


A Yos2 lynch would be very bad right now in our position. A rofl/IAUN lynch would always be better. I am not going to explain it again, some other players already did that well.

I would also vote charter and pooky over both of those. They are both lurking hard and my accusations against those two still stand. I can't make out if any of iaun/rofl are lying. I had them both as rather townish and I feel more certain with charter and pooky.

If he's faking jailkeeper, we will catch him.

This is not necessarily true... he could always fake one-shot Jailkeeper.

[zu_Faul]

Zu is making me go against a Xyl townread

Why?

Tag fixed. - Mod

[zu_Faul]

BTW: I thought rofl was a PR.

a) you hammered in the middle of a discussion I was having with Xyl.

I announced that way before. Xyl had time to say whatever he wanted. I won't let you stall the game. He answered your question. There was no sign anyone of you would add anymore.

b) Your reaction to the claims is underwhelming for something that has totally blown the minds of people I think are town and forces a heavy decision.

OMG WE SHOULD ALL PANIC! THE END IS NIGH!

(also, I don't take the "people I think are town" as any point whatsoever from any living player).

c) You are commiting the same problem I pointed out with Yos2. I don't know how you can denounce a Yos2 lynch and in the same breath say you'd prefer to lynch charter or pooky. Either you feel that we should target one of rofl or iam or you don't, I don't like this middle ground that says a Yos2 lynch would be ridiculous but a charter/pooky lynch, which gives us LESS info about the situation at hand, is good.

Lynching Yos is bad, because lynching rofl would be superior, because of the amount of information, while still "risking a confirmed innocent".
Therefore, if I don't want to lynch any of rofl/iaun right now, Yos also falls out og the lynchable list.

Charter and Pooky don't have anyone claiming them to be CI.

[zu_Faul]

I'd be happy with a Pooky or charter lynch. I'd be ok with a rofl or iaun lynch. Please don't make me choose between those two.

Pooky plays like he's a jester.

I totally don't see elvis' point against rofl about BAB.

[zu_Faul]

Zu Faul and Thesp, if you were to vote for one of rofl/iaun, who would it be?

IAUN. Gut.

[zu_Faul]

So, now we can actually lynch charter or pooky?

[zu_Faul]

I think it would achieve lynching one scum.

[zu_Faul]

Do you believe the hider claim?

Yes.

@zufaul, u should read the thread before you throw random accusations out at people.

BWAHAHAHAHA.

I am confused as to how I am not being lynched at this point. Like, It thought it was going to happen

before

tajo backed up rofl's claim, so I do find it odd that it isn't happening afterwards.

It seems somewhat strange. Like there is no scum pushing for your lynch. Hmmm... Am I the only one who thinks that makes IAUN scummy?

So, now we can actually lynch charter or pooky?

Pay attention.

Sir, yes, Sir.

unvote: charter

.

I somehow overread some parts of tajo's claim.


People I'd want to lynch atm (in order of preference):

PookyTheMagicalBear
iamausername
SerialClergyman
ekiM

But Pooky gets a good first place.

Vote: PookyTheMagicalBear

. IAUN not so far behind. The others are a bit further behind. And maybe we get a revelation on someone like Thesp, or KMD, or e_k.

[zu_Faul]

Or are we relying on there being a doc who will protect tajo's target? I mean, if Iamausername is town, he can jailkeep tajo's target, but the hider goes first (I think), which would effectively protect both from a NK. Is that correct?

Very good idea.

A direct consequence of your claim is that only one of ekim, Elvis, zu, pooky, iam and thesp is town. That's hard to swallow.

Wait, why are you so certain there are 5 scum?

IF we lynch correctly today, it's a great idea. If we lynch wrong today, though, then Tajo SHOULD NOT HIDE tonight.

Restless

Hider?


I am feeling a bit of a conflict. A part of my says it is too good to be true, but another part of me says that we found our scum and should follow through with the Pooky lynch.

Suggestion: Rofl targets Pooky tonight and we no lynch? I think this is a very valid plan, so

Unvote

at least for the moment.

[zu_Faul]

@e_k: What do you think about my idea re: Pooky?

Massclaim does not sound too bad.

[zu_Faul]

I'd like iaun to target KMD (Tajo scumflip scenario). That would fit your last comment SC, wouldn't it?

[zu_Faul]

A claiming vengeful expects to be lynched. ekiM is town.

That's so basic WIFOM it almost makes me angry.


< Vanilla Town.
I think Thesp is the last one who has to claim now, no?

I don't see how Tajo lynch is better than No lynch + shooting Tajo. If Tajo is scum, he'll be shot, if he's town, we got one more investigation. I am not convinced that a Tajo lynch is good in our situation. I still think Pooky is scum and is a good lynch.


Sorry for the late claim, but my weekends are really busy, because I switch places then. Today was especially nasty with election day.

[zu_Faul]

A claiming vengeful expects to be lynched. ekiM is town.

That's so basic WIFOM it almost makes me angry.

What of it?

"Scum would never claim Vengeful Townie."

[zu_Faul]

I think zu faul is scum guys. I've been thinking he was a cop or info role of some kind since beginning of day 2 when he clearly breadcrumbed that Thesp was town.

This is the post I am talking about:

Which game, VP Baltar? I assumed that his absense was legitimate.

I think Thesp is a good citizen.

There are still some questions directed at ekiM, would love an answer.

I had Thesp as obv Vig after Night 1:

Thesp, if I lurk, kill me. Can I have the same call from you?

Sure!

Also, Thesp mentioned the Vig several times (remember when people accused him of directing the vig? that was not the only time when he did so).

Just because I say someone is obv town to me right after night does not mean I got role info on them; something else could have happened (like a flip or, like this time, a kill) which could leave me to think stuff.

I am totally baffled why everyone has me as scum now, but no one says why they think so or no one mentioned much suspicions before today.

[zu_Faul]

Don't have time to post more right now, bigger post in a few hours.

[zu_Faul]

IF YOU THINK TAJO IS TOWN, VOTE POOKY

Vote: Pooky

. Iaun's logic in this post is quite good. I'll rather lynch scum than town.

I would unvote tajo is we are going to lynch zu faul. He is the person I am most sure is scum at this point because his claim is BS, inconsistent with his earlier breadcrumb. He says he only said "Thesp is a good citizen" because he thought thesp was the vig. In what universe does that make sense? If you think a guy is the vig, you don't point it out. He didn't even provide reasoning why he thought thesp was hte vig (it doesn't even make sense), but if he did, he shouldn't have been hinting at it.

You are overreacting like you did with KMD and the "slip"..

I did not point out that he was the vig, this is why I did not say more. But I got a very good read on him - at least I thought that I did- and told people about that read. How is telling people about my reads scummy?

I gave reasoning why I thought Thesp was the Vig in my last post. He mentioned the Vig more than any other player and that InHim died after that exchange was really sticking out.


And you know what? Why on earth should I have claimed Vanilla as scum in that situation? Only Thesp was also left unclaimed; I could have easily claimed Cop/Tracker/Watcher and avoided all suspicion that you now bring forth. I almost knew what I said about Thesp was going to bite me; but as a town-player you don't get to choose what you claim.

[zu_Faul]

Okay I guess you did give some reasons:

I think zu faul is scum guys. I've been thinking he was a cop or info role of some kind since beginning of day 2 when he clearly breadcrumbed that Thesp was town.

This is the post I am talking about:

Which game, VP Baltar? I assumed that his absense was legitimate.

I think Thesp is a good citizen.

There are still some questions directed at ekiM, would love an answer.

I had Thesp as obv Vig after Night 1:

Thesp, if I lurk, kill me. Can I have the same call from you?

Sure!

This was from the round of questions that Thesp asked everyone at the very start of the game. It is also the only time Thesp ever mentions Inhim. And you thought this meant Thesp killed inhim?

Yes.

Also, Thesp mentioned the Vig several times (remember when people accused him of directing the vig? that was not the only time when he did so).

Do you normally see vigs directing themselves?

Yes, I often see vigs say "hypothetically, shouldn't the vig do...?" This is not only limited to new players.

[zu_Faul]

Actually, I say we lynch zu faul right after Yos. Zu faul

was

clearly lying about his "thesp is a good citizen" statement,

LYING? WHAT THE FUCK, CHARTER. "CLEARLY LYING"? HAHAHA. And elvis just swallows it.
Look, I am going to spell it out for you, since you are going to ask anyway: Accusing someone of a lie is a huge accusation in the game of mafia. You are accusing me of a lie, when I made a statement reagarding the alignment of a player. There was no way I could have known his alignment. You can't lie if you don't know the truth. Sometime you are just wrong in the game of mafia. I was wrong (maybe?) on Thesp's alignment. So what? That is not a lie.
Charter's attack against me is totally out of perspective and totally overeager. elvis believes him because he is agreeing with her, and she totally falls for that. elvis, scum can easily manipulate you by agreeing with you, have you never noticed that? You totally go along with everyone agreeing with you. Like pooky also just did. Just because he makes you laugh, and happens to have the same ideas as you, you fabricate some reason as to why he has to be town. You are not even noticing that it is your mind that is tricking you into it.

VP Baltar: 6 (

ekiM

,

iamausername, Ojanen

,

SerialClergyman

, Thesp,

Xylthixlm

, Elvis)

Why the heck are both SC and ekiM in blue? Does it mean that they are semi-confirmed or something? By claiming not-vanilla? Or is this just your point of view? Why should they be? And why did no one question charter about this?

Anyway, rofl is scum. After all, iam did not lie about blocking rofl. And tajo saving him is very scummy. Don't want to put him to L-1 before everyone got a chance to say anything though.

I don't necessarily believe in Thesp's goodness anymore. After all, he did not claim the role I had thought he was.

So at least rofl and charter are scum. (People, please don't forget the tajo also cleared charter). Pooky probably also is. Maybe we jsut got lucky yesterday and had two scum on the chopping block. I doub that everyone has a good reason for pro-town pooky to not vote tajo yesterday. But he did not. Scum pooky could have had a reason (preventing that a ally, who is also confirming at least one of his allies, dies). I can't fathom how you guys can just overlook this.

[zu_Faul]

Vote: Roflcopter

. He is obv scum. Yos2 is not that scummy.

charter should be lynched after him. Or "forced to treestump".
KMD should shoot pooky.

There's a clear difference here - the "citizen" word is pretty synonymous with townie - it looks an awful lot like trying to breadcrumb (and for someone who apparently missed roflcopter's "breadcrumb", it stuck out to me like one).

I don't breadcrumb this offensively.

zu faul, I pushed for tajo's lynch harder than anyone but SC. Tajo flipped scum. I don't understand what the problem is here. And plus, if anyone but you seriously considers me scum (unlikely) I can always suicide and extend deadline! But since I didn't do that when we were threatening a no lynch with about ten hours until deadline, that's a pretty unlikely scenario.

a) This is totally unrelated to what I said.
b) So you pushed for a scum lynch. Bravo. It is like scum never bus.
c) The last sentence is so dumb. I don't believe you can stump. And even if you could, why would you do it, when we were sure to get a lynch, one way or another?

I don't believe how nobody else sees charter as scum, especially with what Tajo did yesterday.


No one even considers I was not on the BAB wagon and defended him. If you push for a scum lynch, you are town, and if you push against a town lynch, you are... scum? Honestly, the only case I see against me is the "breadcrumb" which I have already explained. I could not get anything out of it as scum.

[zu_Faul]

Also - I did lol at Zu's death.

Hey, that quicklynch did cost all of you a funny post.

looking at how yos-rofl-zu went down should cure you of that. Role confirming a buddy mostly just gets you lynched instead, even if you aren't very scummy.

I was not involved in this.

I don't think Zu faul put it in to trick us or play mind games either, I haven't seen anything in his play to suggest that, while there is quite a bit to suggest that it is a slip, such as Thesp is a good citizen and whatnot.

Explain this to me. How was that a slip?

After all, it worked pretty well in tying thesp to me.




I want a rematch :/