/in-Vitational Game 4 (Game Over!)

[populartajo]

/confirmation

[populartajo]

Introduction:

Welcome to Llamaville!

You are one of twenty individuals selected through a highly complex and rigorous screening process to participate in a grand community experiment. Here in this beautiful secluded Peruvian valley, you and your new circle of friends - matched by the esteemed relationship website [censored] for compatibility - will live the good life.

At least, that's our hope. You see, we here at InVy Inc. have noticed some slight irregularities in the makeup of the community. We can't quite put our fingers on it... it could be nothing, in fact. Or, it could be that the system has been infiltrated by a group of evil Llama haters who want to kill you all.

But don't worry about little things like that! Enjoy your stay here in Llamaville... however long that might be!

Peruvian flavor ftw!

Also, if Elvis is scum, Claus isnt scum with him.

[populartajo]

*her, sorry Elvis.

[populartajo]

Ooo, my first time ever as the first bandwagon of the game (I think). I'm honored.

Ill contribute to your happiness.

Also I dont think you have a cat.

Vote: Xylthixlm.

This vote is not random. Its sponsored by I love bandwagons TM.

[populartajo]

populartajo, why'd you do it?

I love bandwagons.

Thesp, do you always ask questions like that?

[populartajo]

Im busy at my office. Will post tonigt.

[populartajo]

Here I am. Quoting some things that caught my attention.

Elvis in 27 is very eager and agressive with last to confirm weaktell. Slightly towntell from her here.

Claus 29 confusing Elvis with farside. As I said, its unlikely that if Elvis is scum, Claus is his partner.

Alexhans feels very relaxed in his first posts. I know he plays on irc, though. How experienced would you consider yourself alex?

Thesp asks a lot of questions. Interesting ice breaker. Thesp any conclusions of your questionnaire? What is your opinion of random voting?

On a related note, I would have wanted to place a wagon vote on someone, but had no interest in the options available.

Why not?

Xyl 66 is an interesting move unvoting me and voting Yos. How random would you consider that vote? What made Yos more suspicious on the late-confirming-scum front?

Charter 77 is agressive charter attacking Xyl. Slight towntell from him here.

Xyl 79 is dumb.

Wagon on Xyl starts with Elvis. Mike follows. BaB who was voting him already reinforces his position.

KMD avoids the wagon in 90.

Vote Elvis_Knits

Not random. Buddies are Bridges, ekiM, and Xyl.

Any particular reason? Why did you prefer Elvis over Xyl?

Elvis 94. Did you check the op when you made your slip accusation?

ITP I am not voting for Xyl.

Why not?

kmd, what made you think there were only 16 players?

101 is a good question from Kmd and I dont like how Bab reacts to the pressure.

Thesp 112 is a very strong post. It so goes against the popular options.

For the record, I don't concur with the line of thinking that says kmd3490 has made a slip with regards to the number of scum. I don't find the Xylthixlm wagon that compelling right now either.

Tell me what made you think that.

I don't think anyone has done the math on people who are active all over the site but wait an extra 24 hours to confirm

I dont understand this reasoning. Can you rephrase, Xyl?

Lol sock puppet attack.

Claus, I actually have a different meta from Mikescum. Can you point me to that game?

BGs

Yos
BnB

GGs

rofl
Xyl

What does this mean?

Rolf agressive and polemic in 140 eating the elvis wagon.

Um, the "1 in 5 players in a 20 player game is probably scum" thing was a joke.

I dont remember you joking very much in our games together. Do you usually joke with accusations?

Charter is being his usual aggressive town meta. I like his tone. BaB deflection attention to Elvis and trying to tie him with charter is weak.

So, in conclsuion, I dont like the Elvis wagon very much. She is being genuinely agressive, at least thats the overall tone I get from her posts. My experience with her tells me that Elviscum is more likely to not be that agressive and be more lenient when her ideas are being criticized.

Bab wagon is better but still need to evaluate some things. I so like this direction. Anyone want to join me?

Vote : Mike.

[populartajo]

Sorry guys V/LA until the 18th. City holidays.

[populartajo]

Tajo is in da house.

I am really furious with Charter right now because of how he seems to be completely missing all of my posts, and I really can't respond to him right now or I'll just be mean.

This post is either a sincere frustration position or a very good faked frustrated post. BaB, how experienced would you consider yourself?

I'm not feeling scum from BAB.

What makes you think this?

164-166 is ol town Elvis.

@PT: Because I didn't see any scumtells from any of the players with votes. I didn't see any from Ojanen, either, but I figured a random vote from myself was unquantifiably more likely to hit scum than a random vote from a player of unknown alignment.

wat?

Thesp 112 is a very strong post. It so goes against the popular options.

In what ways? The first 2/3rds looks like filler, and I don't see anything radical in the last third.

I should have clarified. In 112, Thesp says :"For the record, I don't concur with the line of thinking that says kmd3490 has made a slip with regards to the number of scum. I don't find the Xylthixlm wagon that compelling right now either. " is a very potent opinion, something town is more likely to do than scum.

So by meta, Elvis is more aggressive when town. That doesn't mean she wouldn't fake it as scum.

Yeah, she could be scum doing that. The basic point is that she is less likely to do it as scum. Why are you so eager to discard that piece of meta?

Bab wagon is better but still need to evaluate some things.

Like what?

Like answers to my questions.

kmd, what made you think there were only 16 players?

No clue. Can I blame lack of sleep?

KMD, why are you playing like this? Why so ironic? How many of your points in your attacks in 179 would you consider a stretch?

A question: In KMD's several references to a traitor, is it possible that he is trying to communicate some sort of information about the makup of the scumteam to the traitor? (I'm assuming from the role PMs on page 1 that the mafia members know who the traitor is, but the traitor only knows who the GF is.)

If you thought Elvis was scummier than KMD, then what does this post accomplish?

Posterior pages include charter-yos-rolf-elvis well reasoned attacks againt bab that fails to defend himself properly.

Shaba's 266 is scummy as hell.

Interesting reactions. Good to know charter is in the same boat. Xyl joins the shabba hate later. Rolf uses the newbie and the bab wagon excuse. So,rolf, do you think post 266 is more prob town or more prob scum? And Hero subtly defends Shabba in a lukerhunt. Hero, why didnt you vote iamusername before?

Vanilla claim from Bab. Meh. And stalls the game. And lurkerhunts instead of analysing his wagon. Great.

Saw the claim. I'm probably going to take flak for this, but I don't see scum fakeclaiming vanilla near a lynch on Day 1. Unvote, Vote EK

Dude, thats terrible reasoning. Vanilla claim from scum is not weird at all. Would you have preferred a power role claim? And even worse, why does a vanilla claim makes you revote EK?

Claus is very protective of Bab. Claus, what do you think of bab, what is preventing you from suspecting him?

But if I come up scum, they are pro-town, remember, there's no such thing as bussing Day 1.

Wat? Why would you consider the possibility of being scum?

I wouldn't use WIFOM if I was scum.

And you keep doing it.

Why is Hero avoiding the bab wagon and voting Thesp using babscum as an excuse?

I'm pretty sure that among the people voting him now or having unvoted him recently, there are more than one scum. I feel it best to scumhunt from among the voters.

Why do you think it is a good idea to hunt the wagon when you arent even sure about bab. Why are you not sure of bab being town or scum?

Mod, Mikeprod plz

Bab, instead of hunting lurkers, make a scumlist. My vote is waiting for you, so you have max two days to change or confirm my suspicions.


In the meanwhile,

Unvote, Vote : Herodotus.

[populartajo]

Top means most certain, blank spaces indicate tiers of my certainty. For example: most certain Yos is scum, least certain Kmd is (because I don't know if there's a traitor or not).

Scum list so far

:
Yosarian2
Ekim

Thesp

Elvis

Kmd

Town list so far

:
Ojanen


Herodutus


-----------

unvote
vote: Ekim

This is a very dissapointing list, Bab. I dont see why the post you quoted from Ojanen makes him obvtown unless you think that people that think you are town are obvtown and the people that suspect you are obvscum. Thesp and Elvis being in your list is also a letdown, I would put them at neutral at least. And why are you voting Mike over Yos here?

I think I know.

Unvote Vote: BridgesandBaloons.

[populartajo]

Work. Busy. Shit. V/LA. Tomorrow night.

[populartajo]

Catching up d2.

Kmd starts the day with an elvis vote. Yos asks. Kmd answers:

Mostly the reaction to my initial vote.

Kay, so are we talking about semirandom stage or something else?

lets lynch charter, but not tell him why.

vote charter

you should cuz charter is prob town.

agree with the serial pressure, I have no idea what does he think about the game.

serial 512 is a big indicator of lurking. as soon as the wagon starts he posts in thread.

kmd-elvis round 2 courtesy of Yos. Elvis reaction in 521 is basically what I think about this.

Dammit Yos, you are drawing me back in! I was trying to forget this!

Yos votes kmd. The problem here is why did you wait until day 2 to vote for someone with the same information that was available day 1?

Ojanen 524 is a very good analysis of Yos. Ojanen, what makes you think Kmd and Elvis are town?

The thing is, there is absolutly no reason a pro-town person should ever leave a wagon in response to a vanillia claim, especally on day 1. So, yeah, I think it's a scum tell; it's a move scum have reason to do, and vanilla town don't.

I tend to agree with you here. Also wtf vanilla town?

In other words, just like I said yesterday, by not stepping in and responding to Elvis' initial post on page 4, and instad hearing KMD's defense and all that, I was able to figure out that KMD is probably scum and Elvis is probably town. Which is what I've been saying all along. How the hell could you call that a "contradiction" of what I was saying yesterday? That is EXACTALLY what I was saying yesterday, especally later in the day.

Tbh, I dont remember a solid opinion from you in the elvis-kmd thing. It just feels like you were saving your opinion for today or at least you are reinforcing it. Could you point me where you were saying exactly that?

rolf 528. Good news, rabbit is probtown.

kmd 553 includes meh answers to yos, bs slip debate and an unvote for elvis. What was the point of voting her then?

I don't OMGUS as scum. I tell people they are town for pursuing a case they believe. And my reason for suspecting you is more the gut feeling that you aren't playing to your meta.

Kmd, what games are you using as meta information?

Xyl 549 is kinda odd, kinda aggressive, off. Dont know why yet.

Serial 558 is gutsy yos hate. Overall the post feels sincere but Id like more reasoning than gut in your reads, serial. In few words, why do you think yos is scum, why do you think kmd is town?

Serial-yos battle walloposting the thread. Tl dr.

This caught my attention:

serial is chainsawing for kmd hard, and at this point attacking yos is a scumtell.
Unless you've got some knowledge about Yos2 that I don't have, looks like you're doing exactly the same thing.

So what is the point/motivation of this question, serial?

Conclusion with scumlist ftw tomorrow.

[populartajo]

Tajo - I don't see scum motivation for what KMD did. Earnt more suspicion for getting off a townie wagon (and he knew what he was in for), when just riding it to lynch he'd fade into the rest of the wagon who were doing the same thing. It was an odd decision, but real gut decisions often are.

Im always suspicious of people jumping out of wagons for weak reasons, specially when BAB was inherently scummy. Do you agree or disagree with my stance?

rolf 528. Good news, rabbit is probtown.

me, rabbit, and elvis. We're actually unconfirmed in-thread daymasons.

Xyl, top suspects please.

Um. Wow. Just wow. My argument was "scum never claim vanilla"? Really?!? Could have sworn I used specifics from the setup of this game like the fact that several of the same power role may exist, so a counterclaim wouldn't mean one is scum, and scum would have been dumb to claim vanilla when facing a Day 1 lynch. The only exception is if someone bussed so hard that the lynch had to happen for that person to gain town points. This is why Bridge was so obvtown after he claimed vanilla.

Kmd, so you think it is impossible for hypothetic babscum to claim vanilla? I dont get why you were so sure about babtown. Also, was that the only reason why you unvoted Bab? You thought he was scummy or not? If he had claimed a power role would you have unvoted him?

kmd 553 includes meh answers to yos, bs slip debate and an unvote for elvis. What was the point of voting her then?

I don't OMGUS as scum. I tell people they are town for pursuing a case they believe. And my reason for suspecting you is more the gut feeling that you aren't playing to your meta.

Kmd, what games are you using as meta information?

Thought she was scum then changed my mind.
Not using any specific games. You can check my scum games if you'd like though.

Im talking about what games you are using to backup your Yos accusation. Yos has always been very hard for me to read, sometimes he makes a scummy point but in his next paragraph he comes with a very potent point. I want to understand what exactly makes you think Yos is not playing his town meta.

Suspect
KMD
VP Baltar
Xyl

Can you expand your reads on these players? I think I get the kmd case but what about xyl and baltar? Also lol tiniest violin.

[populartajo]

And if you want to know who tajo and thesp suspect, feel free to iso them. I am not doing your homework for you.

LOL! How can you not get this? I am asking if YOU know who they suspect. You say you do, but you can't take three seconds to type who that is? How strange!

Mike, what is the point of this post? You just posted that Elvis was prob headstrong town so why are you blaming her for something that I am supposedly doing?

[populartajo]

And if you want to know who tajo and thesp suspect, feel free to iso them. I am not doing your homework for you.

LOL! How can you not get this? I am asking if YOU know who they suspect. You say you do, but you can't take three seconds to type who that is? How strange!

Mike, what is the point of this post? You just posted that Elvis was prob headstrong town so why are you blaming her for something that I am supposedly doing?

It annoys me that she was so deeply concerned over what my suspicions were when she clearly didn't know what yours were, and didn't care.

Okay, since we both are thinking that Elvis is prob town, isnt this reaction normal taking into account what she thinks about you and me? I mean, I am usually more interested in trying to get a read of my suspect instead of of someone I think is probtown, isnt it the same for you?

And if you want to know who tajo and thesp suspect, feel free to iso them. I am not doing your homework for you.

LOL! How can you not get this? I am asking if YOU know who they suspect. You say you do, but you can't take three seconds to type who that is? How strange!

You are seriously getting obnoxious.

Tajo seems to suspect kmd most. Some suspicion on Yos, serial. Thinks Xyl is strange. Thinks rofl and me are prob town. Likes Ojanen.

Thesp seems to be suspicious of VP, Serial, ekim. He thinks both me and kmd are town.

WHAT WAS THE POINT OF THAT?

The point is you've QUITE CLEARLY just gone back and looked at their one substantive post from today and dredged whatever you can find from that. It's incredibly obvious. You DID NOT know what their suspicions were when I asked you. So get off MY jock about taking two days to re-read a 25 page thread and decide who is suspicious. Thanks!

I think her worries are valid since I also dont know who do you suspect. Your next post should be a scumlist instead of wasting time in a no u! debate.

[populartajo]

^^ that was to elvis.

to tajo, I already posted a scum list. You quoted it...

I know. Some of your reads were vague.

Can you use the format I use? Town/neutral/scum?

[populartajo]

As promissed, a scumlist ftw.

Prob Town

charter - gut, meta arguments, agressive charter is town charter.
roflcopter - gut, meta arguments, usual town rolf.
elvis_knits - gut, meta arguments, also agressive elvis is town elvis.
Ojanen - gut, solid reasoning, feels transparent.

Neutral

Thesp - solid reasoning yesterday, havent heard much of him today, needs to post more.
SerialClergyman - tbh I skipped some of his posts (the majority are a tl/dr debate with yos). Possible rolefishin, will need to iso him.
PookyTheMagicalBear - needs to post more. alexhans felt kinda relaxed yesterday.
iamausername - doesnt scream scum, doesnt scream town, needs to post more.
VP Baltar - solid points overall but something of his tone doesnt sit well with me, will need to iso him.
Xylthixlm - usual difficult to read Xyl. Majority of his posts are meh.
Yosarian2 - yos is always hard to read. as i said, some of his posts feel scummy but he comes back with a potent protown point.
zu_Faul - same with iam, doesnt scream scum but doesnt scream town, needs to post more.

Prob scum

Kmd4390 - gut, meta arguments (i dont remember kmdtown being ironic), elvisvote early is terrible, elvisunvote is odd. backs up his yos hate with yos meta that I still dont get.
ekiM - baltar case feels good. meta arguments, i dont think ive ever seen miketown being so humurous. his last elvis debate feels forced and i agree that his reads lack substance, something off in what Ive seen of mike in other games.

I really dont understand the serial case. Anyone?

Willing to vote kmd but also interested in the mike momentum and competing wagons.

Vote: Mike.

[populartajo]

Shit! Just lost my whole post. Ok, doing this the ghetto way. ekiM is scum. I basically just agreed with Rofl and voted.

Vote ekiM

. Serial wagon makes no sense. People are beating a dead horse about my unvote on Bridge by saying I distanced from the wagon when I

expected

to take heat, but I didn't want to lynch someone who I thought was town.

And Tajo, Medeival is my only completed game with TownYos.

So, is that the game you are using to metasuspect Yos?

[populartajo]

Grandpa had car accident. No access until things get better. If I take too long please replace me.

[populartajo]

Im back. Grandpa is still in the hospital but he is well.

Expect a reread from me tonight.

[populartajo]

I've been totally forgetting that we have five dead townies already.
IGMEO Thesp.

Dislike this attempt at scumhunting. First, I dont like the "Ive been forgetting clause" What kind of player forgets that four people died day 1? Second, where does that random IGMEO Thesp come from?

Have to advise against this. Charter was scum and quite aggressive in Pale Moon Rising. I think he's aware of his own meta. Also, what has been aggressive about him thus far today?

Disagree again. Just finished a game with EK as scum and she was plenty aggressive. I've been getting decent (though at times misguided) vibes from her since the original kmd dust up, so I'm inclined to think she is town, but I don't think aggressiveness on her part should be considered a town tell.

Ive played with both some games and they are very easy to read, I think I haven been wrong in our games together. Yeah, gutsy move here and yeah they could be aware of their meta but some things are really hard to fake specially in long games. So far this game hasn't given me a single reasons to think they are playing his scum meta. Their accusations feel sincere, scumhunting motivated, not fabricated.

Lurking, lying, trying to not have an opinion other than "Yos is scum" and "KMD looks town". His posts don't seem like he wants to find scum, they look like he wants Yos2 lynched. He's also fishing for roles.

I know Im way behind but where did Serial lie? About the fishing, meh, more later. In the other hand, Ive been asking Serial why he thinks KMD is town for years now. Serial?

Actually I'm going by who certain dead townies suspected, plus an iso-read of Thesp.

So, what did you dislike in that iso? Can you expand on who certain dead townies suspected?

The short answer is both scenarios are stupid, laughable things to describe as rolefishing. If they were rolefishing, my friendly attackers would at least have to describe them as the most lame and unlikely-to-succede attempts ever.

WIFOM but yeah, this is basically what makes me think this rolefishing thing is a very weak debate. When serial started fighting with rolf about chainsaw defense, Im not even sure if he knew he was debating about possible rolefishing. He was more worried in the apparent rolf hypocrisy. Now, either serial is town not worried about being called rolefisher or confused about rolf posts or he is a very bold scum going all in for something that obv would generate negative attention.

Kmd4390 - gut, meta arguments (i dont remember kmdtown being ironic), elvisvote early is terrible, elvisunvote is odd. backs up his yos hate with yos meta that I still dont get.

ironic how?

Ironic in the sense I dont remember any game from you where you were ironic to make a point. Like the first batch of your post day 1.

So, is that the game you are using to metasuspect Yos?

I guess. Just, on Day 1, he seemed more like a back seat player than normal. That's not really true for Day 2 so far though, so I don't know. I think we are more likely to hit scum in ekiM than Yos.

I dont see how this is related to the meta you used to suspect Yos. Care to elaborate?

If this VC was in order of votes, I'd be able to find some scum from it...

Gogogo.

Re: Serial and Yos argument. Im getting towntown vibes from this walloposts battle. None of the points feel scum exaggerated and I see decent points from both sides. Useless no u! debate.

iaum 743 is an interesting analysis of the game. I agree with some of the reads there (principally alex, charter, elvis, kmd, ojanen) but I dont get the rolf hate. Im very confident rolf is town here (he is so easy to read as scum), but I can see where the hate can come from. Decent cases in the other scum reads you'd support (zu_faul, VP Baltar and Yosarian2). Im still meh about Yos but I dont recall any single town feeling in all the game from faul and vp. Theres something that caught my attention, why did you make a case against kmd and didnt include you in the lynches you would support?

Liking the Ojanen baltar case. Ojanen points are strong and baltars responses (to iam also) are lacking. Disliking Baltar more and more as he answers. (I totally dislike excuses as I need sleep, my memory doesnt work) If fast, the wagon feels decent except for thesp and xyl. Fishy L-1.

Kay, charter is more town than ever in page 32, he is starting to tunnel on his theories.

And I am most suspicious of ekiM, xyl, iam, kmd, serial. Top three are pretty close in terms of order.

Elvis, so why did you vote Baltar?

hmm

unvote

tajo totally scumbag
done.

sup pooky, you forgot to vote. reasons would also be appreciated.

Yos scumlist in 836 is overall decent with some exceptions. Why is faul town and neutral at the same time? I still dont get the serial hate.

Anyway, are we going to get any, like, actual scumhunting from you any time this game, or are you going to just keep making snide remarks, unexplained votes, and random sniping at people from the sidelines?

Huh, so Yos

is

scum.

unvote, vote Yosarian2

I dont get this, specially when you unvoted Yos early today. (Im assuming for the same reason I pegged rolf as town). So far you've been meh so I can understand the hate you would get if you accuse someone out of nowhere. What makes you sure Yos is scum? Where does baltar fit in all this and why did you unvote him after you put him at l-1?

Also, where is ekim?

[populartajo]

So, what did you dislike in that iso?

Yeah, I did. And I explained this in a later post too. He was avoiding discussion early on.

I dont remember Thesp avoiding discussion day 1. IMO, Thesp day 1 is pretty solid. Can you quote what gives you that impression? And considering your vote history, why havent you voted him then?

Can you expand on who certain dead townies suspected?

I believe elvis nailed the answer to this one. "Certain dead townies" was Claus and Herodotus.

Yeah, and what does this mean? How is Thesp IGMEO related with Claus and Hero being dead?

I dont get this, specially when you unvoted Yos early today. (Im assuming for the same reason I pegged rolf as town).

I unvoted because I had a weak read and rofl claimed to have a strong one. Now I have a strong read and rofl is crazy.

Mkay. Why didnt you ask rolf why he had that strong read? How did he convince you?

Where does baltar fit in all this and why did you unvote him after you put him at l-1?

I explained

that

too. Baltar and Yos are scumbuddies. I want to make sure everyone knows Yos is scum, so I'm voting him. I still support a VP Baltar lynch.

Why are you asking for more Yos votes instead of supporting the wagon that you put at L-1?

I mean, I don't mind you asking questions, but it would be nice if you'd at least do an iso read on me and see if I've already answered them. It's not like I'm a wall of text poster.

Thats precisely the problem. Your answers are meh. I dont know what you are thinking and why.

[populartajo]

I should say that I totally agree with SerialClergyman's post 558 on Yos2.

Oh, and

unvote
vote Yosarian2

Also why did you vote for Yos based on a weak read?

[populartajo]

I dont remember Thesp avoiding discussion day 1. IMO, Thesp day 1 is pretty solid. Can you quote what gives you that impression? And considering your vote history, why havent you voted him then?

This question bugs me. "Your case on Thesp is weak, and why didn't you vote him for it?" Why did you need to ask that?

I dont need to answer for

your

cases, Xyl. Me saying your case on Thesp is weak is a total different thing than me calling you out in discrepancies in your voting history.

You voted Yos for a weak read (according to what you said before rolf convinced you to unvote him). You IGMEOed Thesp based on a case I still dont understand. (I assume you had a weak read on him too, right?). Where do you draw the line?

Still waiting for what gave you the impression Thesp wasnt collaborating day 1.

Answering 899 after lunch. Edit preview: dont like it.

[populartajo]

I definitely want a Xyl wagon after this.

i was under the impression that xyl had understood the implied message the first time i told him to stop voting for yos, but apparently the tidal wave of people who demand more explanation has emboldened him to go ahead and pretend he doesn't catch my drift either.

This.

Fine, I guess I've made my point
unvote, vote VP Baltar
Don't forget that Yos is scum

I dont like the revote for Baltar as soon as the wagon starts to grow against you. No, you havent made your point on why Yos is scum. Your accusation is silly and in no way should have made you go away of the wagon you put at L-1. Am I the only one here?

Interesting, I missed that. elvis?

This reeks so much of scum its not funny. Why are you supporting an attack to a person you just called town 1 page ago. And even worse for the same reason. (!)

What's the significance of the 'panicked unvote', Xyl?

Person who makes it is town.
I was kind of disappointed it was elvis, since I already thought she was town.

Unvote Vote: Xyl.

[populartajo]

i was under the impression that xyl had understood the implied message the first time i told him to stop voting for yos, but apparently the tidal wave of people who demand more explanation has emboldened him to go ahead and pretend he doesn't catch my drift either.

I've seen you play this pretend-you-have-role-info-to-clear-someone trick before and I am not buying it.

So why did you buy it the first time, when you unvoted Yos when rolf said the same thing about him?

Also, are you implying here that rolf is scum? Because I have a strong town rolf read.

[populartajo]

Meh. Scum are Yos, VP Baltar, charter, and tajo. Lynch them next.

Oh, and many of the arguments against me are scummy bullshit, so take a look at who was attacking and who was defending, and how. Particularly vp vs ekim. Ekim's right there.

Charter's first post against me was chock full of bullshit too.

Little tip: town tend to think I'm ambiguous leaning town. Scum tend to think I'm incredibly scummy and an easy mislynch. It's not 100% but the pattern is there.

This is a BS argument. Xyl is an easy target? People attacking you immediately turn into scum and the people defending your "obv towniness" become town, right Xyl? Nice subtly OMGUS there.

Not all the universe turns around you, Xyl. First, if you are town, which I doubt at this point, and if what you are saying is correct, then are you saying that this game has 7 scum, and that all have to be in your wagon. For obvious reasons, I doubt this is true.

Xyl, you are scummy. Deal with it. I dont understand people clearing you for no valid reasons, tbh. At the very least I would put you at neutral.

So that you can understand what I am thinking here is what bugs me about you:

First, L-1ing someone for zero reason and zero previous suspicions. Regardless of Baltar alignment.

Second, leaving that wagon and trying to form a new wagon for terribly weak reasons.

Coming back to the wagon when the pressure started to grow against you.

Unvoting Yos because rolf asked you to, then calling rolf crazy to finally tell him "I've seen you play this pretend-you-have-role-info-to-clear-someone trick before and I am not buying it". Why in hell did you buy it the first time then? Its inconsistent.

Calling elvis town in page 38 for a weak reason ("panicked unvote") and supporting an attack against her in page 39. You just dont support an attack against someone you think is town.

I dont get why you waited 10 pages to answer for charter accusations. I dont get why you waited 44 pages for trying to analyse the game.

Answer this question. How do you play as scum? Does your little tip work also in those games?

[populartajo]

Im preparing a big post for tonight with wagon analysis and such. I think I have a decent idea of at least two scum with how things went out yesterday.

In the meanwhile Ill contribute with the Pookyhate. Post or perish.

Vote: Pooky.

[populartajo]

Vote Pooky

I agree with Iamasarian2.

Kmd, who is scum?

[populartajo]

Sorry for my absence last week. Ive been terribly busy. Im posting tonight.

[populartajo]

Ugh, I was writing a nice lovely freaking post and then freaking windows update thought it would be a good idea to restart my computer. Its 0152 am here and Im tired as hell so Ill summarize my thoughts and comment on them with the promise of expanding on them during the week.

First, I dislike Pooky's overraction to pressure voting. My vote was in no way a omg diescumdie vote. My vote was clearly post or perish. Also I dont like how you want us to tell you what to talk about. I mean wtf.

Second, kmd is prob scum. He is using the wrong reason to suspect Pooky. (Pooky is scum for lurking) How the hell can you diferentiate Pooky lurker town than Pooky lurker scum?

Third, the Baltar wagon has its merits but I think people are suspecting Baltar for the wrong reasons which makes me want to reread him, the case against him and decide the fate of this avenue. This day, some of the points against him are weak. For example, the impression I got from yesterday was that the Xyl wagon was not produced by a baltar wagon derailment. Xyl himself was the one who deactivated the wagon by a)trying to switch it to Yos and b)looking super scummy. Serial argument considering Xyltown must mean Baltarscum is something I also dislike.

All the people that voted Baltar over Xyl. Why was Baltar more scummy than Xyl? Why did you have a town read on Xyl?

Fourth, still disliking kmd soft accusation against elvis scumlist.

Fifth, the rolf wagon is full of fail. Im pretty confident rolf is town in this game. The guy is so easy to read as scum and Im pretty sure he is not scum in this game. Serial is quickly losing the slight town impression I got from him yesterday.

I was under the impression that softclaiming is pretty scummy. Tajo softclaimed in Lynch All Lurkers and was forced to claim tracker (he was scum), although that was slightly different as he literally said "I have something I will pull out if I get more pressure on me, lay off".
.

Softclaiming is pretty scummy when its produced by pressure. My case on LAL is a pretty good example of pressuring a fullclaim. Now, in this case, first, rolf wasnt under pressure and second, I dont see a scum motivation to softclaim as rolf did.

I don't really see the pro-town motivation for saying stuff like that when you had very few votes on you, though. I can't see the scum motivation for it, either though. And we can't ask rofl why he did it without basically asking for a claim, which is obviously not great.

Basicallly this.

I have reasons to believe that rofl does not have the role he has been soft claiming. HINT HINT.

Im not buying this. But optymal play is fullclaim from both of you. Now.

Also, charter give me something to defend from. You are prob town so I wouldnt like to waste time with you but Im ready to answer anything you want.

In other news, Id like a kmd wagon while we solve this iam-rolf thing.

Vote: kmd.

[populartajo]

Busy times in my office. If things dont get sorted out here in the next tow days, Im sadly going to ask for a replacement. Hope not.

[populartajo]

Things still are a little hard in rl but Im posting here tonight. This is a promise.

[populartajo]

Sup.

this shit got complicated while i was away

anyway, i'm a vanilla cop. vanillas: yos, baltar

yos i thought was scummy enough day one to check out, had he scanned non vanilla i would have been on his back day two ready to pounce at the first sign of fake vanilla claim, but instead i got the innocent confirm. baltar was an easy decision, as with his claimed vanilla i could actually use my ability like a normal cop.

I was expecting something like this, choices make sense.

I'm an X-shot Jailkeeper (not telling you what X is unless someone gives me a good reason why I should), and I jailed rofl on N1.

I jailed him because I believed he was scum, and no one else did, so if I was right, good chance he'd be making the scum kill and I'd block it, and if I was wrong, good chance he'd be the target of the scum kill and I'd protect him. Seemed like the best choice all around.

Fair nuff. I still dont get whats so scummy about rolf day 1, though.

I'm also aware that I could have been targeted by a Mafia Roleblocker on N1, and that this would have allowed rofl to get his result. However, for this to be true, you have to also believe that the scum did not decide to block rofl on N2, despite him having very obviously softclaimed an investigative role, and there being no other power roles exposed. That seems very unlikely to me.

Actually I think this isnt that unlikely. Ojanen flipping goon cop increases the probs of a roleblocker in the setup. You played a solid day 1 and I dont think all people considered rolf an investigative role. This also doesnt consider the fact that there might have been a better choice for scum. (which if Im right about this, means rolf is probably going in the wrong direction btw).

I was fearing that this was going to happen. Rolf is playing his usual town self (trust me, the guy is so easy to read as scum) but I dont think iam is scum "counterclaiming" that way. Now that I think about it, I just wish iam hadnt pressured for a claim when there wasnt a 100% 1-1. Im thinking both are town or I am horribly wrong about one of them.

So, yeah, I don't have 100% damning evidence that rofl is scum, if I did, I would have just gone ahead and said so without waiting for a claim from him first. If you really think that necessitates a lynch on me, then I guess go ahead, but I don't believe that what I've done here has hurt the town.

Yes it does, if both of you are town.

By the way, we're not lynching rofl today. It would clearly be a better idea to lynch Yos, because he is definitely scum if rofl is scum, and on the off chance that rofl is actually telling the truth, we'd be lynching a vanilla rather than a cop.

Unvote, Vote: Yosarian2

Wat? I mean, if you just assumed it would be a 1-1 with rolf, so why exactly are you voting Yos? If you lynch Yos first and he is vanilla, what information do you get about rolf other than he was right about Yos being vanilla?

I was skimming the thread to write about the best solution to this situation but Yos wins the "I agree with" award here.

I personally think if there is a mafia roleblocker who happened to block IAUN N1 and not rofl N2, the game is essentially gone.

Not really.

If they are both town, and we don't lynch either one of them today, then there's a chance that one or the other would be able to confirm themselves tonight, and there's also a chance the mafia will feel the need to kill one of them tonight. It's probably not that likely that Iamusername was blocked by a scum roleblocker, though.

Also, I'm not liking the "lynch rofl and then if he's town we have two confirmed innocents" camp here. If rofl is town, then if we don't lynch him, we're likely to either get another confirmed innocent tomorrow or else force the scum to use their kill on him. If someone really thinks he's scum, then that's one thing, but you don't lynch a cop just to find out if he's telling the truth, that's insane.

Between the two of them, though, I think Iamusername is significantly scummier. His whole "let's lynch Yos first" plan really looks more like a scum move then like a town move; he lynches me, then when I come up vanilla, town wouldn't know anything more tommorow then they know now, and Iamusername is free to either go with a "rofl guessed right but he's still lying scum" gambit or else a "gee, I guess I did get roleblocked" gambit. The whole thing just feels like a carefully planned setup.

I dont like Elvis point about rolf having to derail the bridges wagon and check him when the guy was really really scummy even when she knows how townrolf plays. Also charter is still town. And I still have no idea why kmd is still alive. If there is a third party we should lynch is definitely him.

Meh, all other posts are opinions about this situation and people taking sides. I really dont want to lynch rolf and if I had to pick I would go with iam, only because I trust my rolftown read but I really dont want to bet the game in a failed assumption that its not that unlikely.

Anyways, there is no need to end the day and I want to hear more about everyone else. Im willing to push the kmd wagon and I also think pooky could be a good choice (reaction to the pressure early at the day).

[populartajo]

Where is everyone?

Pooky, thoughts of kmd.

[populartajo]

WTF?

Rofl is town.

Big FOS : Charter and KMD.

Im growing more and more confident than both rolf and iam are town and we are set in a false dichotomy heading to a fail lose. There is no need to end the day when this is NO A 100% 1-1 and we also dont have a read or a solid opinion on players like kdm and pooky And like Thesp said, I think another night of both iamausername and roflcopter staying alive is more likely to be productive than counter-productive.

In the worse case, if you would assume a 1-1, then the the one we should be lynching is iam not the informational role, ffs. Are you guys even thinking?

[populartajo]

Rofl is town.

Howso?[/quote]

Fuck it. Im claiming. Hider. N1 I hided with rolf. N2 I hided with charter.

Breadcrumbs about rolf and charter being town are over the thread day 2 and today respectively. I can quote them if you want. And I know you are going to ask. This last big fos against charter was a last attempt to not be too obvious about me having information about rolf, but I guess the best play is to claim right now since no one is going to trust my rolf is town without more reason than gut read.

Unvote accordingly.

Also.

Confirm vote: KMD.

[populartajo]

Tajo, please explain your night choices.

Tajo, please explain why you don't now think iamausername is scum.

Rolf was an easy one. There wasnt much consensus on him being town in day 1 and he was a big proponent of the bab lynch so scum had less reasons to kill them, nevertheless I had a strong town read from that play.

I thought a little more about charter but in the end I went with my town read I had from him also day 1, the fact that some people started to suspect him and his lurking day2.

About iam not being scum, I think Ive been pretty clear about it in 1434. The moment I reread I was having troubles seeing why iamscum would out himself "counterclaiming" that way when this wasnt lylo and this wasnt a solid 1-1 situation. Thesp also brought many good points in 1462.

I don't see what's insane about Tajo's move as scum. He claims to have role info clearing rofl and a bunch of other people (probably mostly scum, maybe not all to get the town ones good will). The lynch is steered to a third party scum know is town. Tomorrow is probably LYLO and scum with the help of a townie or two lynch iamausername or another townie for the win.

Unless I'm missing something obvious?

The part where my claim is true.

You think Im fakeclaiming, why.

[populartajo]

I'm catching up with the posts. My net access is still intermittent.

I hate the hider claim because I was more and more happy with my position on rofl. I don't see scum fakeclaiming unless it's lylo.

I am starting to think a massclaim is in order. We already have a number of claimed roles, it's close to lylo and we might be able to break the setup if we coordinate night choices.

I'm going to re-read as much as I can tonight, given many of the arguments I was forming were trumped by tajo's claim.

Why do you hate the hider claim?

[populartajo]

So, now we can actually lynch charter or pooky?

Pay attention.

[populartajo]

FTR, I dont disagree with a Pooky lynch but I really think a KMD lynch is a better idea.

[populartajo]

No, I'm disagreeing with iamausername's seeming belief that you cannot be fakeclaiming. I'm undecided.

Explain to me why your fakeclaiming is unlikely without using dubious rhetoric like "well,

I

know my claim is true!".

---

I thought a little more about charter but in the end I went with my town read I had from him also day 1, the fact that some people started to suspect him and his lurking day2.

Did charter aggressively leading a lynch on a townie not cause you any doubts?

Why

did "the fact that some people started to suspect him and his lurking day2" make you want to hide with him?

I repeat a question I asked earlier: did you breadcrumb your investigation targets?

Charter, as rolf, are both very easy to read as town. They are so transparent when they are pursuing their victims, even if these come up town. I cant say I disagree with the majority of the points they made against bab or xyl. Do you?

Reason for hiding wih him when people started suspecting him and his lurking made him a less likely target for a nk. Yes, there are always doubts but when I reread charter that night there was nothing that made me think he was scum.

And about the question about breadcrumbs, how exactly do you breadcrumb hiding with someone?

[populartajo]

The problem I have with that is that I find it astoundingly unlikely that they're all town, AND you got blocked N1, AND Tajo happened to pick the same target as you N1, AND rofl wasn't blocked last night. I don't know whether or not it's less likely that scum would go balls out defending like that.

Also, if Tajo is fakeclaiming the only absolutely certain scumteam members are him and rofl, I think.

And I imagine the vig would've shot last night if he had any shots left.

I think iam is telling the truth about his claim, but why does me being truthful with my claim, also makes you think iam is truthful with his claim?

[populartajo]

Am I the only one that thinks Mike's and Serial's reactions to my claim are extremely scummy?

I hate the hider claim because I was more and more happy with my position on rofl.

My first instinct when I read the claim was "crap, that could be true, but it's also exactly when scum would fakeclaim if we were about to bust this game open by lynching roflscum".

Im failing to see how these are protown reactions. Its like they were very happy with the rolfwagon and then bam, crap, tajo rained in his parade. How can you say "crap" or hate a claim that has the potential of breaking the game?

Serial and mike, did you iso me? Should I quote my breadcrumbs? Why exactly dont you believe my claim?

In other news,

Mod: Prod Pooky.

[populartajo]

A direct consequence of your claim is that only one of ekim, Elvis, zu, pooky, iam and thesp is town. That's hard to swallow.

Why is that hard to swallow? Any evidence Im missing?

I am also yet to see a breadcrumb you gave about who you were GOING to hide with, a piece of information pretty vital to the town if you hide with scum and flip hider.

I still dont see a good way to breadcrumb with who Im going to hide. Also why would I try to hide with someone that has big probs of flipping scum? Thats just dumb. In the other hand, I did breadcrumb my results which is the best way to play the hider role, IMO.

Finally, I don't like that you waited that long to claim. If you had claimed directly after Ian, knowing you could clear rofl and clear enough people to come close to breaking the setup, that's one thing. But you didn't, you waited til he was almost lynched.

First, I didnt think it was necessary to claim when there wasn't lylo or my two investigations were not even near to be lynched. Yes, the odds of breaking the game were not low but as proven with recent developments, they are not totally infallible. I was very clear in explaining why iam didnt make sense as scum for "counterclaiming" rolf the way he did and the best idea I could come up with was to try to push the suspicions to other players like kmd or pooky. Now, when the wagon swtitched to rolf then the obvious play was to claim.

[populartajo]

In fact, I just convinced myself. I do not believe Tajo. I think it's time to summon the minimals and lynch him.

I just gave the reasons why I don't believe him, it doesn't ring true. I don't think the scum team are in those six people, I don't believe he waited for so long to claim, I dont understand why he'd fos charter or not go after iam like a rabid dog. I don't think that rofl, yos, vp, charter and him are all town.

And if the worst happens, I think lynching him if he's town is not the end of the world, it confirms four other players and means we just have to pick out the townie from the six mentioned above.

But it won't, I think. Tajo is lying.

[]unvote rofl, vote Tajo[/b]

Okay, Serial is scum.

Why should I go after iam like a rabid dog? Its a false dichotomy.

I don't think that rofl, yos, vp, charter and him are all town.

Well I do, what's the case against them other than "omg, they are all scum fakegambitting"?

Also why did you have to wait to have Pooky at L-1 to come up with this? What was preventing you from posting this after my claim?

[populartajo]

Tajo, do you think it would be a good idea to lynch you today? Because if you're town you will confirm four people, and possibly break the game.

Im aware of that.

If my flip has a high certainty to break the game, specially when tomorrow could be lylo, then Im all for it.

I doubt it, though and I dont know what are the disadvantages of leaving me alive for the night or trying to maximize our possible information outcome without lynching one of the claimed power roles. Someone that is more adept in calculation things can prove me wrong, though.

Anyways, Im really uncomfortable with Serial deflecting the attention of the Pooky wagon in the moment when he is at L-1.

[populartajo]

Sorry guys, V/LA until the 28th. Ill try to get some access to comment on this clusterfuck.

I always hate to be lynched for information reasons. Its obv non optymal play from my own pov and I still dont see what is the omg gamebraking strategy you are going to get from my lynch. Even when the majority of people voting me already think Im prob town and there is no a single reason to believe the obvscum claim Pooky just made, but hey I guess there are some things I will never understand.

Just remember to afterlynch Serial and Pooky if I get lynched. I will vote for scum today, thx very much.

Vote: Pooky.

[populartajo]

Hey Serial, what are your thoughts of Pooky?

[populartajo]

Everyone that isn't voting tajo, in their next post, should either vote him, promise to vote him before deadline, or explain why we shouldn't lynch him. This is kind of dumb we're going down to deadline.

We shouldnt lynch populartajo because he is town.

Like really, wtf is this shit? Who the hell thinks Im scum besides serial?

[populartajo]

Eh. I still don't think lynching tajo today is a good idea.

Right now, if tajo flips town, we have two confirmed townies from him (charter and rofl), and from rofl, we have two confirmed vanillas (me and VP.) With Tajo and rofl dead tommorow, we only have 3 confirmed townies left, out of a pool of 11 people. (4, if you count KMD, who I also consider confirmed). If there are 5 scum, then that means there will still be 2 unconfirmed town people left, and with 5 scum-votes out of 6 votes to lynch, the odds are, town will end up lynching one of them and losing.

If tajo is town, and we don't lynch him, then we almost certanly win. One more confirmed townie, from either rofl or tajo, and town should autowin. If tajo is town and we lynch him, I think we've got a very good chance of losing.

Now, if tajo is scum, we should lynch him, obviously. But people (people who I think are likely scum, mostly) keep making the argument "we need to lynch tajo today to get information", and that's just completly wrong.

If someone has an ACTUAL argument for why they think Tajo is probably scum, I'd like to hear it. SC's argument sounded like "I think Tajo is scum because he's not letting me lynch rofl, and I really want to", and that just sounds like a scum reaction to me. ANd no one else has really made a case for him being scum at all.

We might also add to his case the "You didnt breadcrumb your target and you suck playing hider, that must mean you are scum".

[populartajo]

And ftr, these are my breadcrumbs after I got rolftown and chartertown.

Iso 11, my first day2 post.

rolf 528. Good news, rabbit is probtown.

Iso 16. My scumlist.

roflcopter - gut, meta arguments, usual town rolf.

Iso 25. When answering to Xyl.

Also, are you implying here that rolf is scum? Because I have a strong town rolf read.

Day 3.

Iso 30.

Fifth, the rolf wagon is full of fail. Im pretty confident rolf is town in this game.

Also, charter give me something to defend from. You are prob town so I wouldnt like to waste time with you but Im ready to answer anything you want.

Iso 33.

I dont like Elvis point about rolf having to derail the bridges wagon and check him when the guy was really really scummy even when she knows how townrolf plays. Also charter is still town.

[populartajo]

Charter, think for a second. I cant believe you are listening to serial.

Everyone that isn't voting tajo, in their next post, should either vote him, promise to vote him before deadline, or explain why we shouldn't lynch him. This is kind of dumb we're going down to deadline.

We shouldnt lynch populartajo because he is town.

Like really, wtf is this shit? Who the hell thinks Im scum besides serial?

Answer this. And everyone in my wagon. I feel like Im wagoned by people that doesnt think Im scum pushed by shitty reasoning.

No lynch is not a bad option when the claimed power roles can confirm at least one more people at night. Even if you somehow think they are lying, the game tomorrow will have at least one more piece of information and more probs of breaking since my lynch by far doesnt guarantee a town win and lylo is possible tomorrow.

I much prefer a scum lynch. The fact that the Pooky wagon was dismantled and pushed towards me for information reasons when there is no a single reason in thread to think Pooky is town should be enough to realize this. With one scum down, we will have also have more time to figure out this.

[populartajo]

I dunno tajo, I thought you were scum earlier in the day, though I don't even remember why now. I don't really have a very good town read on you.

A main reason I'm happy with the tajo lynch, is that is has kmd (confirmed town) and balter on it (almost certainly town) and myself. Which is three townies. None of the other wagons have that. PLUS, I think if tajo was town and a hider, he'd have been hammered so long ago, but I am pulling teeth trying to get a lynch. I think it very unlikely that three scum wouldn't have voted tajo by now if he was town, especially since there's a scapegoat in SC if tajo is town.

Obiously scumbags dont want too be obvious after my flip. Either they want this wagon to be ext townie powered so they can wifomize tomorrow or to be a deadline lynch, which it seems to be.

Just for the record, scumbags are serial, pooky and prob mike or elvis. I know you can catch the rest after.

Good luck.

[populartajo]

Who thinks Pooky is town?

Even better, who thinks Pooky is more likely town than me?

Seriously, guys.

[populartajo]

Good job town.

MVPs are definitely Serial and charter. Serial did an awesome job convincing some townies that my lynch was the optymal play and was one of the few that didnt buy rolf's claim. Charter, after some valid mislynching, got himself semiconfirmed and was a very valuable town member in the critical moments: my lynch and baltar's lynch.

I think we lost first when a)rolf decided to softclaim cop when there was no necessity to (Yos wasn't in real danger to be lynched) and b)when Baltar decided to not vote Pooky and go against then scumteam that was pretty obvious going for the "not bussing" way and the Pooky emergency lynch.

I think that if Baltar had gone along the scumteam, we would have had more possibilities of winning the game. We only needed to convince one townie the next day and we had Thesp, Iamusername and even Pooky on our side for doing this. Meh, I really would have liked to win this game after my hider claim.

Best post of the thread is definitely this.

lol

this is the equivalent of the mafia don carrying the bloody knife sitting in the courtroom with his giant cigar, his entire crime family turned state's witness, a mountain of evidence against him charging him with racketeering, murder, extortion... and he points his finger at the teddy bear in the corner and says....

"LOOK! THE TEDDY BEAR IS LAUGHING!!!!!!!!!!!"

Good game town! And good game scum!