Mafia 96 - Murder in Emerald City (Game Over!)
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Kmd4390 I lost a bet.
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Hmm. I've got some work to do. I think I'm just gonna get into whatever discussion goes on starting now and read as I discuss so I don't do what I did in Mafia 91 (lurk because I have no clue what is going on).
If anyone has any questions for me or anything they'd like me to discuss, it can only help.KMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare-
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Kmd4390 I lost a bet.
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Ok, a Mastin game. XD.Mastin wrote:Emerald City First Post
FoS:,SerynaKise,Nadroj15ZazieR
For being the last to confirm. It's a scum tell. (Sure, they replaced the last two to confirm, but still...that doesn't mean the tell doesn't apply.)
With that out of the way,
I'd like to do some real scum hunting, here!
Mastin Votes: Mastin.
I'm a member of Mafia A, along with...hmm...let's say...Roflcopter, Mufasa, MafiaMann, and...hmmm...Ah, yes. Kublai Khan.
Fallen Angel is also a neutral mafia traitor, who we failed to recruit last night for reasons we shalln't reveal.
Zazie is a Mafia B traitor, who can be recruited by the Mafia B faction. We want Zaz dead as soon as possible because of that.
And Kise...oh, right, did I mention Khan's a rolecop and we have daytalking abilities? Yea, we do, and Khan has revealed to us that Kise is a Mafia B godfather. Yay!
Discuss.
Well first, the "last to confirm" scumtell doesn't apply here. The tell says that scum will discuss before they confirm. But why would players strategize and then be replaced in confirmations. I just don't see it.
<Insert "OMG you suck for self-voting" comment here>
<Insert "scumclaiming is retarded when you do it like this" comment>
Serious question- Why assume two scumgroups over scum/vig/SK?KMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare-
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Kmd4390 I lost a bet.
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Rofl would have been my first serious vote in this game.roflcopter wrote:kublai khan is town, and wins the common sense award for knowing what to do as a miller
mastin needs a new start-the-game-up gag. mastin has also committed a real scumtell, policy voting the guy who claimed miller in his first post.
vote: mastinfor great justice
whoever killed elvis has earned my eternal ire and i miss her already
-Declares Khan town on next to nothing
-buddies to Khan by giving him and award for "knowing what to do".
-Wrong on Mastin's vote. He called it OMGUS, not a policy miller vote.
-Takes the easy Mastin vote, apparently knowing his meta
-Comment on the NKKMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare-
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Kmd4390 I lost a bet.
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Kmd4390 I lost a bet.
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Kmd4390 I lost a bet.
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Kmd4390 I lost a bet.
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Kmd4390 I lost a bet.
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Kmd4390 I lost a bet.
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10 pages now and those reads pretty much stand.ckool5000 wrote:
Please say that that's only the first six pages.Kmd4390 wrote:Some reads from the first 6 pages:
ckool5000-scum
fallen angel-slight scum
Faraday-town
Hayker-town
VP Baltar-townJohnny Rotten
Kublai Khan-town
MafiaMann-town
roflcopter-scumKMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare-
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Kmd4390 I lost a bet.
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On Page 12, Rofl gives a list that looks more like easy targets than actual scum candidates. Hayker and MM look pretty townie up to this point.roflcopter wrote: speaking of lists of who i'm willing to lynch:
mastin
fallen angel
hayker
mafiamannKMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare-
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Some new reads throught Page 14:
Achilles-town
Zazie-town
Wicked-scum
Nam-town
Having a hard time reading Mastin and for once, Emp.
My suspicions on Ckool are reinforced with the terrible vote on Khan "after looking at everything". I'd have been equally confortable voting either Rofl/Ckool on Page 14.KMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare-
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Kmd4390 I lost a bet.
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Kmd4390 I lost a bet.
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Kmd4390 I lost a bet.
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Um, what? You give an unreasoned vote (I assume it was because Hayker, who you mentioned as someone you are willing to lynch, gave CKool advice on how to look townier, right?) and MM asks for reasons, so you threaten to vote him?roflcopter wrote:
no. watch your step or it could be you.MafiaMann wrote:
ok... anything elseroflcopter wrote:unvote, vote: hayker
I haven't seen any scumhunting since FA went after you. (Up to this post, not current time)ckool5000 wrote:Whoa, whoa, whoa guys! Did I ever say I was going to stop scumhunting? Nope. This is the biggest case of strawman I've seen out of all my read-throughs of games. I only said I should probably stop saying things that'll make me want to foot in my mouth, which I was doing for quite a while there, and you guys turned it into me cracking under pressure (which I kinda was, I admit) and giving up scumhunting, which I am NOT doing.KMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare-
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Kmd4390 I lost a bet.
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I think there is scum on this wagon assuming my town read on JR is correct.iamausername wrote:-=Vote Count #8=-
Johnny Rotten (6) - Kise, Mastin, Namttam, Wickedestjr, Hayker, reveillark
I do this on nights that I'm not working. Is that a problem for you? XDWickedestjr wrote: The time comment was aimed at everybody that posts at 1-4 in the morning at their time.
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Don't really like Lowell's catch-up post. Basically seems to mirror Rofl.
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Done going back and forth on Fallen Angel, I think. Pretty sure he's town.
Reasons?ckool5000 wrote:Kise, you're starting to seem pretty scummy to me.KMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare-
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Kmd4390 I lost a bet.
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Couldn't agree more.Mastin wrote:Rofl's drop in activity is concerning...
*headscratch*Kublai Khan wrote: Are you a Lyncher by any chance?
VP Baltar-718 wrote: Also, voting Mastin is pro-town.roflcopter-719 wrote:unvote, vote: mastin
^LOL.roflcopter-720 wrote:a viable wagon on mastin was all i needed to come back to voting him
Btw VP, I'm having a hard time getting a read on Mastin at all. I'd prefer lynches on my suspects, especially Rofl and Ckool, but I'd lynch Mastin over some other popular choices like Khan and Hayker.
Let me look at your Mastin points and see what I get.
Fishing, I don't see.VP wrote:-He was fishing for flavor
-He is spamming the thread so you do not take time to read his posts
-He repeatedly asserts how pro-town he is and rather than defending he claims that most scumtells are null against him
-He has refused more than once to summarize any points against JR
-He has misrepped many many people in this thread
-He's OMGUSing anyone who disagrees with him
Spamming, post style and null.
Asserts he is protown, valid point.
Summarize JR points, valid.
Misreps, valid, but may actually be a result of his poststyle, unfortunately.
OMGUSing, I'd have to check, but if true, valid.
Ok, I guess I see your case for the most part then.
On to Page 30. Almost there. Can't believe I'm doing all of this in one day.KMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare-
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Kmd4390 I lost a bet.
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Miller is pretty normal. I included it in my Mini Normal that I modded.Wickedestjr wrote: Well at first, I was considering the same possibility that ckool was, that Khan would claim death miller when asked if he was a death miller or not, but then you pointed out that this was a largenormal, and now I'm beginning to get a hunch that Khan is scum. I don't have any good evidence now, so I will not vote him, but I will pay more attention to him.
STRONGLY disagree with this generalization. It may be true for some players, but there are several players, including myself, who are the exact opposite and contribute MORE as scum than as town.Wickedestjr wrote:Are you aware that scum don't typically contribute as much as town?
Proven? I had a town read on you early, but this is one of a few twitches I've had concerning you.Namttam wrote:Proven scum. If you don't know why go read my logic in a previous post.
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Page 32, Mastin is near a lynch I believe. Not a formal count, but I think it's L-2 or L-1. Not a bad choice if we lynch him. My top preferences probably won't be lynched, and like I said, Mastin is much scummier than Khan, Hayker, or VP who all had wagons on them for a while.
Interesting. I believe you about being a RB. I believe you thinking there are four killing roles/factions. I believe you genuinely suspect Khan. I'm just trying to determine your alignment.Mastin wrote:Oh, and I'm at L-2, by the way.
I am an Emerald Roleblocker. I blocked Kublai Khan Night Zero, because he said he'd kill me if he got a killing role in the pre-game. Best random choice I could think of.
I've breadcrumbed this throughout the whole day ("I'm a roleblocker. I blocked XX because he said he'd kill me if he got a killing role"-->Dead giveaway.)
I SERIOUSLY suspect VP picked up on this after my two posts, and got afraid of it.
I'm thinking that we have four kills--
A vig, a serial killer, and two mafia factions. With one of their kills failing last night. Specifically, I think Khan submitted the kill, and when he failed, he panicked and claimed miller.
THAT is one of my main reasons for suspecting Khan, above all else.
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Ok, everyone and their brother switches from Mastin to MM after he claims RB. One of the biggest WTF moments of this game.
I'd definitely prefer a Mastin lynch over MM. 3 more pages. Gonna rest my eyes for 5-10 minutes and I'll finish this read.KMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare-
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Kmd4390 I lost a bet.
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Ok, I'm caught up now. I still think Rofl and Ckool are likely scum. I think Mastin is scum who is probably dead tonight. I think MM is probably town. My other reads that I posted earlier mostly have held up. Nam is slightly scummier than I though originally. Fallen Angel is townier than I thought originally. I think Wicked and Lowell are scum, but am less suspicious of them than I am of Rofl and Ckool. Hayker, VP, Kahn, and Zazie are obvtown.
Vote RoflCopterKMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare-
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Kmd4390 I lost a bet.
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Also, anyone with less posts than me is lurking and needs to share opinions. XD
Oh, and I predict that in the future, this game will be used against me in a meta attack showing that I am capable of reading 38 pages in one RL day while also staying active in the rest of my games during that day. (Disclaimer: I didn't have to work today and wasn't feeling as lazy as I normally am)KMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare-
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Kmd4390 I lost a bet.
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Combination of early gut, not seeing anything in his actions that would benefit him as scum more than town, and the ridiculous speed of the wagon. He actually kind of reminds me of Myko in Spy's recent game.VP Baltar wrote: Also, I want to hear from Kmd why he thinks MM is town. I saw a lot of similarities in his reads on people in this game to mine, but this was a major difference.
He has not contributed a thing and has set himself up to jump any easy wagon he chooses. How is that a null tell?curiouskarmadog wrote: I have been down this EXACT same road with him before (exept maybe he posted more). I attacked him for spouting that "X is obv town"....I felt that it was scum motivated...I was wrong...his play is scummy to be sure, but for him, it is a null tell.KMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare-
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Kmd4390 I lost a bet.
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I haven't played with Rofl by himself. I've played with Trotsky which consisted of Rofl and Korts.VP Baltar wrote:Have you played with rofl before Kmd?
Can't say I agree with your gut read on MM, but meh. Guess I can't win them all.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure MM is town. I mean my vote is here over a no lynch if needed before deadline, but he'd be one of my last choices for a lynch.KMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare-
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Kmd4390 I lost a bet.
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Depends on how far into the Day it is and reasons for doing it.curiouskarmadog wrote: Also, KMD..you thoughts on bandwagons or the sake of bandwagons on day 1?
-Barely Post-RVS just to wagon
--acceptable. people do it for reactions.
-Mid-Day
--On someone you've voiced active suspicion on, sure.
--Someone you haven't mentioned at all, slightly suspicious
--Someone you've actively called town, retarded
-Near deadline when rules give no lynch without majority
--Acceptable.
-Near deadline when rules allow for a lynch anyway
--To stop another lynch, case-by-case
--second suspicion because no one is voting your first, acceptable.KMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare-
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Kmd4390 I lost a bet.
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Kmd4390 I lost a bet.
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Kmd4390 I lost a bet.
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Kmd4390 I lost a bet.
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Kmd4390 I lost a bet.
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From what I saw, he was behind. It's perfectly reasonable to look at the most commonly discussed players when you are behind and/or having a hard time finding opinions.Kublai Khan wrote: You're not concerned that he limited his choices to only those with votes? At the time it read like he was at a bandwagon buffet. I thought (and still think) that it reeks a little of signaling.
Thanks!VP Baltar wrote:Happy scumday, kmd!
The deadline would be a good reason.VP wrote:Care to explainwhysomeone should vote for MM, Emp?
I'd have to re-read you to make a case, but with deadline coming up and my suspicions on you being very minor compared to rofl and ckool, now isn't the time to discuss it.Wickedestjr wrote: What do you find scummy about me?
Not really, but has anyone claimed death miller? No. Khan just claimed miller.Wickedestjr wrote: I know that, but is a death miller normal?
Thanks.Wicked wrote:Happy scum day kmd.
Willing to lynch anyone we want who isn't scum, right?roflcopter wrote:i will do some reading soon. i'm pretty sure my positions on anything important are already clear.
Unvote rofl, Vote MafiaMann. If we don't reach majority before deadline, we No Lynch. So MOAR MM VOTES NAO.KMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare-
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Was he town in that game(s)?Faraday wrote: And is not how I remember him either. In fact quite the opposite, in that he was, well too easy to write people off as town.
Is his play different from before?ckool5000 wrote:Yeah Faraday... But your posts in general seem so town, that it's hard to find you scummy... If that's not redundant..... I guess what it really is is that there's nothing in your posts that can be considered scummy, as far as I can tell.... Hmm.... Does that make you scummy?
He already claimed miller. If he changed his claim to death miller, it would have been incredibly suspicious.Wickedestjr wrote: I understand, but at first I wasn't suspicious of Khan because I would of expected him to claim death miller when he had been asked if he was. Then Zaz pointed out that this was a normal game, which made me realize that he wouldn't have claimed death miller if he was lying anyway. Does that make sense?KMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare-
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The case on him is basically poor play. We do have a deadline and need a majority to avoid no lynch though, so voting him is pretty much necessary at this point.molestargazer wrote: I will, however, come back tomorrow and read the MM case to decide if I think that's worth it. Rest assured, I'll deliver a verdict on that one before the deadline.KMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare-
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Right, but even if he disagrees with the case like I do, we need to lynch someone before deadline.VP Baltar wrote:
Or he could read it and decide for himself.kmd wrote:The case on him is basically poor play. We do have a deadline and need a majority to avoid no lynch though, so voting him is pretty much necessary at this point.KMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare-
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Right. They are unconfirmed alignment, so no point claiming. They are basically vanilla now.SerialClergyman wrote:Also the neighbor thing - as far as I'm aware, they don't know each others alignments, so even if we got the neighbor Mufasa was talking to, we couldn't guarantee that they were town, so there's no point to them claiming. Is that right?
Rofl and ckool for sure. Maybe Wicked and Nam too. Oh, and Mastin claimed RB and everyone pretty much shifted over to MM who was a terrible lynch. I think he's probably scum too.Xylthixlm wrote:Hello. Who's scum?
You're voting with scum. Hayker is obvtown.Xylthixlm wrote:vote: hakyer
Mindless bandwagon vote until I've formed an opinion of my own.
QFT.Mastin wrote:...Zaz...was...mafia?!? Dang it, Zaz, you always do that to me.
Vote RoflKMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare-
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Kmd4390 I lost a bet.
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Rofl, more organized version of my case that I found by viewing my own posts:
-lurked
-only went after easy targets
-predetermined who was votable a little early
-Declared Khan town on next to nothing, very early in the game
-buddies to Khan by giving him and award for "knowing what to do".
-Wrong on Mastin's vote. He called it OMGUS, not a policy miller vote.
-Takes the easy Mastin vote, apparently knowing his meta
-Comment on the NK
-threatened to vote MM over asking for reasons for your voteKMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare-
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Lowell is getting off because of meta?SerialClergyman wrote:it's about time we looked at people like rofl, empking's alt, lowell etc who are coasting without much in the way of suspicion based on meta.
2-Hayker couldn't be more obvtown, but is newer and bound to slip up a little. Mastin could very well be scum, but he's not exactly a hard case to push. I'll lay off about Mastin though because I do see him as possible scum.roflcopter wrote: sure, just pretend those points are numbered
1 is true, i lurked
2 is false, my targets weren't "easy" they were scummy. and you can hardly call going after hayker and mastin easy now that kmd is riding my case about it. almost makes them seem like they're all connected.
3 is completely subjective. "a little early" is a pile of crap when it comes to calling something scummy. it is 100% kmd's opinion, not fact.
4 again with the "early in the game" bullshit. and i didn't declare him town on "next to nothing," i gave a very detailed explanation for why i was declaring him town.
5 kmd seems to be simultaneously arguing that i shouldn't have declared khan town, while saying that i'm buddying to him, an action which would only be scummy ifkhan is town. pick a side ass hat.
6 actually i don't even remember what this one is referring to in particular, but its obviously a backhanded defense of mastin again. mastin was doing exactly what zazie was doing yesterday, going after the claimed miller and ignoring most everything else. look what zazie flipped.
7 again, what about it?
8 again, what about it?
so there you go. now lets all sing kumbaya together while we lynch mastin.
3-people can agree or disagree with opinions, no?
4-Still way too early to say he's gotta be town. And Zaziewoulddistance knowing that no one else is agreeing. Idothink Khan is town, but he is FAR from being confirmed in any way like you are treating him.
5-Or he could be scum, but not with you. Learn the sides "ass hat".
6-But your vote at the time looked more like a playstyle vote.
7-It's scummy
8-It's scummyKMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare-
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Hmm. I can follow that logic. But the town perspective is that you don't want to "clear" scum, so you do everything you can to question someone being confirmed before you treat them as such.roflcopter wrote:i have this theory about the game of mafia. the town wins not by identifying all the scum, but by identifying enough town to drown the scum in confirmations. if a large enough proportion of the town agrees on one player being town, the scum are forced to deal with that player in a way they would deal with a cop-cleared player. this is why scum always fight so hard against people agreeing with one another over who is town, and why they will always argue against clearing someone. its like a supertell.
Well, scum going after easy targets is a tell. It's opinion who those easy targets are. I happen to think your targets are the easy ones.rofl wrote:
people are free to disagree, but you listing what is a difference in our opinions as a reason for why i'm scum is foolhardykmd wrote:3-people can agree or disagree with opinions, no?
No, my opinion is that Khan is town. I just think you're a little quick to "clear" him.rofl wrote:
see the above theory, and again you're using your opinion like its a fact, and like it makes me scummy for not agreeing with you about itkmd wrote:4-Still way too early to say he's gotta be town. And Zazie would distance knowing that no one else is agreeing. I do think Khan is town, but he is FAR from being confirmed in any way like you are treating him.
Maybe.rofl wrote:
he's town.kmd wrote:5-Or he could be scum, but not with you. Learn the sides "ass hat".
Sure. This was your first post of the game:Rofl wrote:
explain pleasekmd wrote:6-But your vote at the time looked more like a playstyle vote.
Ignoring that you call Khan town immediately and the comment on EK, you voted Mastin. You said he "needs a new start-the-game-up gag" and that heroflcopter wrote:kublai khan is town, and wins the common sense award for knowing what to do as a miller
mastin needs a new start-the-game-up gag. mastin has also committed a real scumtell, policy voting the guy who claimed miller in his first post.
vote: mastinfor great justice
whoever killed elvis has earned my eternal ire and i miss her alreadyALSOcommitted a real scumtell. And is he not just disagreeing with your opinion here? I was thinking the vote was due to his playstyle, but I see that I was wrong. My bad.
prove please[/quote]kmd wrote:7-It's scummy
8-It's scummy
Commenting on the NK is almost a subconscious "I have no idea what happened" after knowing that you (or your buddies) submitted that kill.
Threatening MM wasn't productive at all.KMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare-
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Gut. I'll push a real case when I have one. Rofl, ckool, and maybe Mastin are all scummier than you.Wickedestjr wrote: @Kmd - Can you explain how you got a scum read from me?
Also, if Zazie is reading the game, I wouldn't be stealing that post-style. XDKMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare-
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Didn't know that.roflcopter wrote:
then you are seriously reaching for any little thing i've done to call scummy. ek and i have a friendly relationship. i bemoaned the fact that my friend had been killed night zero and i would not get the opportunity to play with her.kmd wrote:I was referring to the EK kill.
Or you could let townies think for themselves.Rofl wrote:
i don't recall ever trying to badger mafiamann into voting with me, but if i did, he and you and everyone else should grow a pair and get over it.kmd wrote:I don't see how you can honestly think it's not scummy to threaten someone to vote how you want. If I were to say "Wicked, I'm voting you if you don't vote rofl in your next post", would that not be scummy?
Why?Asshat wrote:oh, and you should be voting for mastin. hop on that.KMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare-
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I have both you and ckool as scummier than Mastin. I'll only vote him if I can't get a lynch on one of the two of you.roflcopter wrote: as for why you should vote mastin, because he's probably scum, as you've also mentioned quite a few times over the course of the last few pages in a sad little attempt to look like you actually suspect him, and because if he is scum he's a scum power role
2 or 3 I think.roflcopter wrote:so how many points that you originally listed against me have you conceded now? we're getting closer and closer to the only point being lurking.KMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare-
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Thought we only had 2. Vi and Zazie.VP Baltar wrote:The point about the JK is a decent one...though I wouldn't have expected Mafia 91 to have three town cops either, but it did.
You are slightly more likely to be scum than ckool IMO.roflcopter wrote: and would you say you rate ckool and myself as equally scummy? that was the impression i got when you said you'd only lynch mastin if you couldn't lynch ckool or me.KMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare-
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You're asking me to vote ckool. If I start to think ckool's lynch is more likely than yours, I'll switch. A one vote difference won't do it for me.roflcopter wrote:is the disparity in our likeliness of being scum on your personal scale of more value than creating a 3 person wagon instead of a 2 person wagon?KMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare-
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But I would prefer for yours to be more likely. And does this game seem stalled to you? I don't get that impression.roflcopter wrote:
your switch would immediately make a ckool lynch more likely than mine. two racing wagons of two votes each stalls the game.Kmd4390 wrote:
You're asking me to vote ckool. If I start to think ckool's lynch is more likely than yours, I'll switch. A one vote difference won't do it for me.roflcopter wrote:is the disparity in our likeliness of being scum on your personal scale of more value than creating a 3 person wagon instead of a 2 person wagon?
Oh, right. Forgot about that.VP Baltar wrote: Empking was a cop as well...he just happened to be (rightly) vigged on N0.KMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare-
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Maybe it was the miller claim.molestargazer wrote:
What makes you think miller?Hayker wrote:I'm pretty sure Khan is indeed a miller now.
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VP, interesting. I saw ckool as scummy before, but I didn't see the connection to Zazie.KMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare-
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Probably skimmed it.SerialClergyman wrote:KMD - how did you not see a connection between cKool and Zazie when it was discussed right at the start of the day? Check out post 1041KMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare-
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Ok, I was planning to point out "Annihilated" if you claimed someone else. It's null now because you mentioned it. I don't think there is an SK (24 players, 6 scum would be balanced, I don't see 2 scumgroups with different numbers on each), so I do believe there is a vig. I won't vote you unless we either see a counterclaim or another vig flip later.ckool5000 wrote:Mufasa. It says "Annihilated" when it's me.
Also, did anyone else notice that Mastin nailed at least one scum on the first post of the game.
And Mastin got lucky.KMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare-
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Works for me even at the risk that Mastin actually is scum. It's just one more way that my top suspect can be eliminated.roflcopter wrote:unvote, vote: mastin
ckool: if mastin flips scum you should kill kmd tonight, if he flips town you should kill me
Unvote, Vote MastinKMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare-
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