/in-Vitational Game 4 (Game Over!)

[BridgesAndBaloons]

BridgesAndBaloons, do you enjoy having town roles or scum roles more? On an unrelated note, are you happy?

Town roles. As scum, I really worry about trying to not be scummy. Also, it's more fun to have an awesome case on a mafia member when I'm town than it is to have an awesome case that's a mislynch when I'm mafia.

Also, I think I'm a generally happy person. I'm pretty content right now. I just had breakfast.

vote: Xyl

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Ooo, my first time ever as the first bandwagon of the game (I think). I'm honored.

Don't try to laugh this off. Post 66 is genuinely scummy, and this is a legitimate wagon.

More XYL votes

please.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Kmd, why start a new wagon when someone else you think is scum already has a wagon on them? Why didn't you vote me instead? Is E_k much more likely being scum than the other people on your list?

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Also, it does not make a lot of sense for Xyl and BNB to be buddies anyway since she started the wagon.

This is terrible logic. Firstly, it's

wrong

. Scum very often vote eachother. Especially RVS. I think some people actually consider it a tell (if, for instance, Xyl turned up scum). Secondly, it makes no sense. How could I possibly know my vote would turn into a wagon? I could have easily just made one vote and switched it.

I'm not liking E_k's posts.

After reading the first post, I thought there were 4 mafia + (optional) traitor too. The fact that E_k didn't come to the same conclusion as me is weird.

Hos: Elvis

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Bridges, why just the HoS? Is the Xyl wagon really more important? If so, why?

Originally my thinking was that E_k seems like a more legitimate vote, but if I made the vote this early, it wouldn't have as much merit because it's so early, and I wanted to make this vote when it had more merit.

Then I realized that's pretty stupid thinking, and the Xyl wagon will continue without me,

unvote Xyl
vote: Elvis

But I still am suspicious of Xyl.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

C=

After reading the first post, I thought there were 4 mafia + (optional) traitor too. The fact that E_k didn't come to the same conclusion as me is weird.

What gave you that impression? Please be specific.

each mafia had a role pm like this (bolded numbers are my additions:

Mafia Godfather

Role Name:

Mafia Godfather

Group:

The Mafia Family is: XXXX

1

(Mafia Godfather), XXXX

2

(Mafia [?]), XXXX

3

(Mafia [?]), [XXXX

4

(Mafia [?])], [XXXX

5

(Mafia [?])]. Each Night, your group may attempt to murder one player - please specify who will be carrying out the kill attempt. The Mafia Family may communicate at Night by PM or Quicktopic: [Quicktopic Link].

Abilities:

In addition to your group's kill, you are [Immune to Nightkills and/or Immune to Investigations].

Win Condition:

You win when all non-Mafia players are dead, and at least one member of your Family is alive (or when nothing can prevent this).

Notice that I MISCOUNTED the number of mafia, so really there should be 5. Except, now I'm thinking that the last two are in brackets, so maybe they are optional? Any one familiar with one of Mith's games to see if that's the case.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

^Thanks.

That's...actually a really good point. Post 102 is really, really odd.

I really don't understand your logic at all, B&B. How is it that you thought you should vote for your #2 suspect rather then your #1 suspect because it was early in the game?

Yeah I know, bad logic, right? That's why I decided to vote for E_k instead, because she's my number 1 logic. Although, I don't like* Xyl because of his vote on Yosarian. Don't like the reasoning of "last to confirm."


*Future reference, when I say "don't like" I mean "seems scummy/odd" when I say "like" it means "seems pro-town." So, even if I say "I don't like you," I probably still like you.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

There's something I need to say about post 149, but now is not the time. Can someone please remind me (or remind myself) to do this later, probably like 10 pages from now or more.

@Charter, there is no case for me to defend against. I've been ignoring the votes on me because most of them don't have a reason posted with them. I'm fine with reasonless votes, they make wagons to read and I'm already collecting info from the one on me. They're also find to add pressure to make people react (this was my vote on Xyl supposed to do. I was sort of exagerating the strength of my case)

Anyway these are the people voting for me:

Thesp

"Most likely to be scum by far. " No reason for me to defend.

Charter

"vote BridgesAndBaloons for post 102. That part there seems especially scummy to me. " I'm not sure how me thinking the xyl wagon will continue without me is scummy. And you still haven't explained.

inhimshall

"BridgesandBalloons keeps getting mentioned. I'll take the good odds of good Townies and bussing scum. " - just going with the wagon and doesn't explain

SerialClergy

man, he says that my post 102 is weird, and that my thought that Xyl will continue is "ridiculous." I don't think wierd or ridiculous are scummy, so I'm not sure how to defend against those.

Rofl

- "they're equally scum, so i'm gonna put my momentum where it counts" again, no explanation for me to defend against.

Ekim

- "unvote; vote: BridgesandBalloons Strange behavior. " again, I can't defend against the word "strange."

I'm not calling these people scummy

yet...

for withholding their reasons, but without reasons attacking me, I can't defend anything.

On the other hand there are reasons for the Elvis Wagon which she seems to be completely ignoring. Her stretching the case on Kmd is totally forced and scummy.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Well, three people said you (BAB) were scummy, two more don't just seem to be bandwagon votes, and one does. You apparently don't have a clue why people are voting you, so you don't even care to find out?

Are you familiar with how mafia works? Just kidding. But seriously, they will explain their votes later. I trust that there's reasons they didn't want to explain now, but when they

do

explain their votes, I'll be ready to defend. Until then, I can't really do anything. I'm not going throw a hissy fit and demand an explanation.

Are you just hoping suspicion on you is going to blow right over by pretending like no one is voting you?

What? You seem to be twisting the facts. In my previous post, I explained that no one posted their reasons, and so I couldn't respond to anything.

I don't understand why you are not attacking Elvis. Elvis has almost as many votes as me, and she's been ignoring the votes on her. You staying off of her wagon is odd

---
I'm not quoting the rest of your post I'll just respond to it.

After Kmd brought up the issue, I spent 5 minutes (which is a pretty long time considering how fast the mind works) thinking and yes, I realized that I should vote for who I thought was scummiest. He didn't change my mind, he made me rethink my actions. All by myself I decided to vote E_k.

Also, I find Elvis more scummy. I'm not avoiding that. I believe I said that on post 102: "E_k seems like a more legitimate vote" meaning more legitamate than Xyl thus scummier.

Another question: someone says something that makes me think and then I change my mind. How is this scummy?

Your initial vote for Xyl came after post 66, and was cast with no reasons posted, but then after others voiced suspicion of Xyl, you cite post 66 as scummy. Not when you make your initial vote.

How is this scummy? Unexplained votes are not scummy.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

I am really furious with Charter right now because of how he seems to be completely missing all of my posts, and I really can't respond to him right now or I'll just be mean. Tomorrow I'll make a civil response when I have a level head.

I mean, normally I'd write something full of expletives like "you are stupid" blah blah blah, but I wouldn't mean offense by it, but people

are

offended by posts like that, and I don't want that to happen. So I'll respond to him tomorrow.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

I am not Shea

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Kmd, this is for you

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Well, I was more of asking to post something worth posting, like a response
to votes on you, instead of posts like 148.

You make no sense. How am I supposed to respond to an attack with no reasoning behind it?

I don't find Elvis scummy. She hasn't ignored the votes on her either. She responded to accusations in post 137. . .Why is my in particular staying off her wagon odd? Why should I have to join it?

I didn't see post 137. So I thoguht you were being hypocritical and that's odd. My bad,

The thing is, people have specifically stated what is scummy about her "

opportunistic

, but the

overreaction

" so she could defend against it. No one has said something like that to me.


But I think you should join it because I think Elvis is scummy, obv.

It's not. It's how you left the Xyl wagon.
. . .
I didn't say they are. I said that how you came back after Xyl had a wagon to repeat what others said and essentially shove legit reasons under your RVS vote was scummy.

That is utter bs. I voted for Xyl because he voted for Yosarian2.

I

started the wagon and those were my reasons. Just because i didn't reveal the reasons doesn't mean I didn't have them.

Another thing I didn't like was the 'Xyl wagon will continue without me' comment. What led you to think that by unvoting him, his wagon would continue?

[/quote]

cuz i think what he did was sort of scummy and I thought other people would vote him. Why is my (apparently wrong) assumption scummy?

[BridgesAndBaloons]

What is your logic for voting me? Now that you realize I was right on the 4 scum front, being that there is absolutely no reason to assume that, why are you voting me?

I'm voting you because I think your attack on KMD is ungenuine and forced. You are stretching a simple statement into a scumtell.

Also, I'm sorry, I missed your responses. You haven't ignored the case, and there is an actual case (which you think is bad probably) on you.

-------

@BnB--do you feel a majority of the votes on you are merely for bandwagoning purposes and/or are the result of lazy play?

I think Inhimshallbe, Serial Clergy, Rofl, and Ekim are voting me because previous people were voting me. I do not believe they would have voted me if no one else was.

I believe that Thesp thinks I'm scum for reasons he's withholding, I think that Charter thinks I'm scum for some reason I can't understand, something about me not defending myself against nonexistant cases?

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Kmd, this is for you

Can't open links on this computer... People link me on AIM all the time and I have to tell them it doesn't work.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12107

[BridgesAndBaloons]

I don't believe elvis is being anything but a little zealous. Not out of the norm for her, it's null.

I would love some game links for that, pleez.

BAB was obviously trying to drum up a bandwagon by overstating his case. It was so early he couldn't possibly have had a real case. I fail to see the scumminess.

this is true. (not to say I completely

lacked

a case, but I was drumming it up).

i get the feeling kmd/bridges found themselves in a 4 person scumgroup, assumed that the sample role pms would simply state as much and therefore presented the information. upon discovering that the sample pms actually account for up to five scum, they are both now struggling to come up with reasons why they assumed 4, with such charming excuses as "i thought there were only 16 players."

That's not my excuse. I must have mis remembered the number of names or miscounted earlier, and when Kmd said 4 I thought that was the number of XXXX

you haven't been paying attention to the more than a month long game placement process and announcement which very clearly indicated you had been placed in a 20 person game with only people who you were interested in playing with, or at the very least were not adverse to playing with? i don't buy it.

Yeah, I haven't. If you read the thread, I simply '/in as a replacement player." and then I got replaced into this game. I did not submit a list of people I wanted and did not want to play with. I was not involved with the whole process as much as you or other people were.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Stupid question: didn't people explain why they were voting BaB as they wagoned him? Wasn't it his HoS and then later vote on Elvis? I may not consider that a meritorious case, but why are people talking about it as if no reason was given?

Because, most people didn't explain their reasons. Look at my post 151 , where I quoted the portions of the posts where the people who voted for me "explained" their votes. They really didn't (except thesp and Charter. And now you can add Ojanen to that list. She said she didn't like my behavior with E_K While, that's obviously an incredibly vague explanation, I can't say she didn't at least

offer

an explanation.)
--------

I'm not sure it's necessarily scummy, but it's questionable that you try and further Xyl's wagon

while

unvoting.

I just want to reiterate the fact that you're voting me for something that's not "necessarily scummy, but it's questionable."



Now, if you thought I was scum because of my vote on E_K, that's a completely different story. That'd actually be something I could defend myself against. But there's no way for me to defend against "odd" "questionable" behavior. I just don't understand the wagon on me. I think Thesp is the only one who might have a good reason, and he's still withholding it.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

I was about to unvote E_k because she wasn't joining the wagon on me (something I'd expect scum to do and they could do it easily), but then in her most recent post she mentioned I was scummy which is a way of subtly joining the wagon without having to make the obvious vote.

I'm not saying that her suspecting me is necessarily scummy, because town would do that too, but if she continued to stay off my wagon I would have considered that towny and unvoted.

Still keeping my vote on E_k

I have another small point. Not sure what it means, but I thought it was strange when BAB argued with me when I said that BAB and XYL were probably not scum buddies since he random voted and then pushed the xyl wagon. It is more BAB's plea to wagon xyl that seemed un-scum-buddyish to me. But why does he even have a problem with this? Why does he want to argue that they could indeed be scum buddies?

I attack against bad logic because it creates an atmosphere where it's harder for scum to hide their insincere comments. Does that make sense? Even if someone is saying "Bab is town for [FAULTY LOGIC] " I will call them out on their bad logic.

231 and 232 make me think Charter is town.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

I'm not sure it's necessarily scummy, but it's questionable that you try and further Xyl's wagon

while

unvoting.

I just want to reiterate the fact that you're voting me for something that's not "necessarily scummy, but it's questionable."

Now, if you thought I was scum because of my vote on E_K, that's a completely different story. That'd actually be something I could defend myself against. But there's no way for me to defend against "odd" "questionable" behavior. I just don't understand the wagon on me. I think Thesp is the only one who might have a good reason, and he's still withholding it.

Not even a good strawman, I gave multiple reasons I thought you were suspicious. To try and pretend like this is the only one isn't going to fool many people.

I'm not pretending, I don't know what those other reasons.

And also, the reason I attacked was your main reason:

Well charter, your reason was not very good in the first place, was it? That is what BAB was trying to say here.

I am up to date. I don't buy the BAB wagon anymore.

The main reason I'm suspicious of BAB is his manner of leaving of the Xyl wagon to join the Elvis one

.

Also, the Elvis wagon didn't exist until I switched my vote. I was the second vote on Elvis.

So,

how is it a straw man if I was attacking your main reason to vote me?

What are your other reasons for voting me? Please restate them if you have already explained them. Am I misinterpreting your argument? I don't mean to do that, so please correct me if I'm misinterpreting.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

My logic isn't bad though. You have to follow the lowest common denominator approach, IMO. If two people are trying very hard to lynch one another, I assume they're not scum buddies.

Wait. Do you think day 1 vote before page 5 constitutes me "trying very hard to lynch one another?"

Do you

really

think that?

Furthermore, I think it creates a bad atmosphere to do what you did, to assume every attack could be bussing. Because then you can't clear any townies for finding scum. You get into a backwards mindset where you think that the town's greatest asset is bussing and is therefore scum. That hurts the town my creating a paranoid environment.

What are you even saying here? I don't understand this it all.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Although I like how bridges is determined to see my actions as scum either way, whether I vote for him or not:

This is a blatant

Lie

I was about to unvote E_k because she wasn't joining the wagon on me (something I'd expect scum to do and they could do it easily), but then in her most recent post she mentioned I was scummy which is a way of subtly joining the wagon without having to make the obvious vote.

I'm not saying that her suspecting me is necessarily scummy, because town would do that too, but

if she continued to stay off my wagon I would have considered that towny and unvoted

.

BAB is like, "elvis not voting me would be townish except she's fueling the wagon by finding me suspicious. I mean, suspecting me doesn't make her scum, but her continuing to stay off my wagon is just as scummy as voting me."

You are misinterpreting what I'm saying, and you're doing it so horrendously I'm having a hard time seeing this as an honest mistake. You are not staying off of my wagon, you made it very clearly you thought I was scummy. Forget semantics for a second and just listen to what I'm saying: if you had not said I was suspicious that would have been a town thing to do*.

Please read the bolded statement. Here, I'll quote it for you again
"if she continued to stay off my wagon I would have considered that towny and unvoted"

you did not do this. You added on to the wagon by saying I was suspicious. If you had not said I was suspicious, I would have thought you were town, but now that you DID vote for me, it's a null-tell.

Let me put this in other terms, these are my thoughts, I could be wrong.
POSSIBLE ACTIONS TAKEN BY ELVIS

• Vote for Bridges
  Would have done this as town or as scum
  
  
• Said Bridges is suspicious but no vote
  would have done this as town or as scum
  
  
• Say Bridges is town or neutral
  only would have done this as town

*The reason I say this is because as scum she would obviously want to discredit the person attacking her and shift the flow onto anybody else. As town she wouldn't necessarily want to discredit the attacker, but she'd be looking for the true scum, not just subtly adding onto a wagon.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

hey look, its the appeal to page number, my favorite terrible scum argument!

lynch bridges now please

Could you show me a single example of a good, correct argument made in a large game before page 5?

Before you waste your time looking through hundreds of games let me just tell you: it never happens. I didn't have a big case on Xyl, I was "drumming it up." and I knew it wouldn't get him lynched.

Just like I know E_k won't get lynched because she was making this "big attack on KMD for a slip that didn't exist." Because there needs to be more reason to lynch someone in a game than something simple like that.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

@yos 246, like I said before, it's really bad logic. If the town follows bad logic that leaves it vulnerable to listen to bad logic from scum. Scum's logic is always faulty (unless there's two scum groups, a SK, or bussing) and so I want to sent a precedent that we won't follow it. Does this make sense at all? I'd attack the logic of "Bridges is town because he isn't lurking" too, that's just bad logic.

I know I haven't responded to all the posts but I gtg now.

Page 11 will be my obligatory lurker hunt.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

page two of lynch all lurkers

page one of mafia 93

appeal to page number is a horrible, horrible excuse for anything

I agree. I'm not using it as an excuse.

I am not using appeal to page number to defend myself, I was using it to support why I don't think the E_k wagon or Xyl wagon will continue and turn into a lynch. So, that's why I don't consider those votes as trying as hard as one can to get lynched, because it's so early and lynches don't happen

that

early.

Now, you provided some interesting examples that sort of changes my mind, but after reading (I only read the first game) I see it was sort of an unusual situation -- Zwet who said something incredibly scummy and also threatened to lurk (super scummy because it was LAL mafia and lurking gave mafia extra NKs), and then threatened to self hammer. Anyways do you understand? I'm not using apeal to page number to defend myself, I'm using it to explain why I don't think actions that occur early in the day can really constitute "trying to lynch as hard as you can."

So,

Rofl:

please respond directly to this statement and tell me you understand what I'm saying.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

It was not merely that you voted him on page "x." This is the post that made me think you and xyl are prob not scum buddies:
[ . . .]
If however, you lynch Player B and he flips scum, and then you accuse Player A of bussing, you are screwing yourself hardcore. You are not only lynching a town player and a good one who has already lynched you scum, but you are creating a paranoid environment where other players can't trust each other, and where nobody can find scum without being accused of bussing.

You know what, I disagree with your idea, but now we're just pedantically arguing theory and that's kind of not helpful.

I'm curious: have you lost any games because you assumed someone was town after they bussed their partner?

[BridgesAndBaloons]

@BridgesAndBaloons: Could you comment on a wider variety of the players?

I'd love to but I'm spending all my time defending a case I still don't understand.

Hello!

I'm a bit too tired to post today, but I really would like to read and comment on the recent developments. So would you guys please avoid hammering BaB in the next 24 hours or so?

BaB, just in case you are quicklynched, could you give us a list of the 5 scummiest players in the game so far? Thanks!

Hm, there's probably at least one or two scum who are subtly joining the wagon on me. I'm not sure about which person it is, I need to think about this.

I'll get back to you asap.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Claim:

Vanilla Townie

Okay, before you'll lynch me I have a couple of things I'd like to see happen

• Give me time to properly defend the cases on me.
• Look into lurkers so we have more information on them going into the next day
• Give me time to finalize my list of scummy players

I'm saying all this so that we can have something to work on for tomorrow. Of course while I'd prefer not to be lynched, if I AM going to be lynched, then I want to generate as much information as possible.

Deadline is September 1

. Can you give me until August 28 at least? This seems fair. Town has nothing to lose from keeping me alive for a couple more weeks. If I turn up scum, just ignore everything I've said, OR use everything I've said to find scum partners.


This entire post sounds like a resignation that I'm being lynched, but I'm not necessarily giving up. Obviously I am going to defend myself, but if I learn that that will be impossible, I'll just focus on finding scum.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Page 11 will be my obligatory lurker hunt.

Here it goes on Page 12 instead...
I'm going to cross out the name of anyone who I remembered enough of them to make me think they're not a lurker. It's possible I cross out someone who only made a couple of recent posts, but those posts were memorable to me.

Then I looked at how many posts people made and crossed out the name of anyone who made 10 or more posts. (Meaning up to isolation post number 9 or not, so this included confirmation posts).

Then I left EkIm w/o a * or crossed out because he is VLA recently, but he is sort of a lurker

alexhans was crossed out because at the rate he was making posts, he probably would have had 10 if he wasn't VLA right now.

Lurker*
or

not lurker

Player list

alexhans

BridgesAndBaloons

charter

Claus

ekiM

elvis_knits

Herodotus

iamausername*
inHimshallibe*

Kmd4390

Ojanen*
populartajo*

roflcopter

SerialClergyman**

Shabba

Thesp

VP Baltar*

Xylthixlm

Yosarian2

zu_Faul

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Just popped in, about to go to sleep.

Anyway I see Yos voted me. This is really scummy unless he missed the following quote. I'll quote it again in case he missed it:

I'm saying all this so that we can have something to work on for tomorrow. Of course while I'd prefer not to be lynched, if I AM going to be lynched, then I want to generate as much information as possible.

Deadline is September 1

.

Can you give me until August 28 at least? This seems fair. Town has nothing to lose from keeping me alive for a couple more weeks. If I turn up scum, just ignore everything I've said, OR use everything I've said to find scum partners.

This entire post sounds like a resignation that I'm being lynched, but I'm not necessarily giving up. Obviously I am going to defend myself, but if I learn that that will be impossible, I'll just focus on finding scum.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

I've had a wild day and I'm going to my friend's gig soon so I can't be here long, but I'll do a quick run through all the posts I have time to respond to.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

I will not take the time to try and defuse a wagon on someone who is not helping himself.

BaB, list of scummy people, please. 10 days is too much - if you want a "break", you have to make one yourself by saying who you think is scummy.


[ . . .]
--
I'll give details when BaB gets out of his ass and posts a scumlist.

Gets out of my ass? What? Give me a week then if 10 days is too long. Please meta me. It takes me a while to write up cases.

[

@BaB: That's over a week away. No. If you were necessarily going to be lynched, then a couple days would be enough. You just happen to be at L-3, and waiting that long is only useful if a better lynch candidate may appear. Answer posts 277/278.

It takes me about a week to go through the game and find more scummy people. THen again, this game is smaller so I might be able to do it faster.

Just popped in, about to go to sleep.

Anyway I see Yos voted me. This is really scummy unless he missed the following quote. I'll quote it again in case he missed it:

Thesp is right here. There is absolutly no reason town should stall the game for weeks just because it's not the deadline yet.

Nevermind above, you can add Yos to the scum list.

Yos is a very smart, very rational person. I don't believe he would accidentally

exagerate

"10 days" into "stall teh game for weeks."

I also don't think he would do something as stupid as to not let someone get the chance to speak, if I turn up town, you get to see my opinions. If I turn up scum, you can use the info to find out who my buddies are.

Then I left EkIm w/o a * or crossed out because he is VLA recently, but he is sort of a lurker

Why are you making allowances for ekiM's V/LA, but not mine?

cuz EkIm is my scumbuddy

I'm sorry, I must have missed it. When I get a chance I'm going to type a post about all the lurkers, I'll switch you over to the nonlurker side and not do a post about you.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Okay fine you guys are impatient, give me until end of Saturday before lynch?

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Many of the people calling for my immediate lynch and not giving me time are probably worried I'm going to put a case on them, then when I come up town they look bad


. . . But if I come up scum, they are pro-town, remember, there's no such thing as bussing Day 1.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

. . . But if I come up scum, they are pro-town, remember, there's no such thing as bussing Day 1.

this one is good for the lulz because obviously before anyone ever votes for you and when you're at lynch minus one are completely comparable situations to judge your interactions with other players, amirite?

no no no no no

I'm talking about the people I will post cases on, if I find any. THOSE people are confirmed if I come up as scum.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Lurker list

ekiM-
inHimshallibe*-
Ojanen*-
populartajo*-
SerialClergyman**
VP Baltar*-

[/quote]

inHimshallibe:

He has really lurked, not contributed much to the game. This is his most substantial post:

Thesp, if I lurk, kill me. Can I have the same call from you?

BGs

Yos
BnB

GGs

rofl
Xyl

BridgesandBalloons keeps getting mentioned. I'll take the good odds of good Townies and bussing scum.

vote: BridgesandBalloons

He doesn't make a single mention on Elvis Knitt, even though Elvis had more votes than me at the time (5). If

Elvis comes up scum, look at inhimshallibe and vice versa

. Also, him plopping onto the wagon without explaining (AND STILL NOT EXPLAINING) his vote is really scummy.

What are your reasons for voting me?

Ojanen:

reread her posts, she lurks alot less than InHim, and she is totally townie.

populartajo:

Slightly pro-townish lurker, but I'm not certain. Not as bad as inhim I think, although him going off of my wagon when he said it was a good one is kind of weird.

VP Balter:

He has now made 10 posts and he doesn't read too much as a lurker, but I'm confused why he isn't voting iamusername if he said that

Also, if iamausername is not scum I'll eat my hat (see photo).

Ekim:

Oh, I meant to take him off the lurker list. . . Well, I shouldn't have meant to do that, becuase after I looked at him, he's lurker scum.

In post 82 he silently jumps on the biggest bandwagon (Xyl and fifth vote)

In post 142 he hops off of Xyl after I become the biggest wagon

I think he is lurkerscum.

serialclergy

is a super super lurker. Has made 4 posts all game. Tomorrow please pressure him, although he does say he's busy. . .

[BridgesAndBaloons]

the WIFOM, it burns me

I wouldn't use WIFOM if I was scum.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Sorry I have to go for the rest of the night now . . .

[BridgesAndBaloons]

GAHHHHHHH

Okay so if I had time, I could show you guys this, but this time of year is waterpolo hell weeks and I'm super tired because of it and quite frankly, i forgot about this thread until just now, right before I'm going to sleep. Happens every year around this time.

I have not read any thing since my last post and I can't, I'm really sorry. I'm not stalling, no matter my alignment, me not making a post today is bad play, I hope you can see that. Anyway, yeah suprer tired can't really think straight and I'm suprised I haven't meadte a ridiclusou amount of spelling erorrs to check.
ggonigth
goodnight all.
sh*t so tired.

I'l ltry to post tomorrow, no i WILL OST TOMORROW.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

anddddd I'm here now.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Well I'm adverse to BaB dying right now. I'm not sure about him, I haven't got proper reads on half the players yet and there are several people coming out of V/LAs right about now.
Thesp, when do you plan to enclose your reasons for heartily endorsing the BaB wagon (now and originally)? After he's been lynched? Frankly I'm not quite understanding why this is a beneficial strategy.

So obv town. Like ridiculously towny.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

To BAB: I did give my reasoning for my vote. It was earlyish on in the Day when I voted, making the comment I felt there was a very good chance that you were scum who had been drawing a lot of attention from good Townies and bussing scum, and so I voted you. Everyone seemed to be popping up and saying something about you, or at least that was my perception as I read through to catch up.

This makes no sense. You voted me because I was scum that was "drawing a lot of attention?" How does that make me scummy? Drawing attention Day 1 is something scum don't want to do, that's why many scum lurk through day 1. At the very worst for me, this is a null tell.

The Triad of Evil
Or why Thesp, Ekim and Yos are bad kids and will get coal for Xmas.

Really good info here, I agree with Yos for sure, not sure about Thesp or Ekim, I need to look for my own sake first.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

, B&B is probably scum and, if he is, Xyl is 100% guarenteed to be town;

According to Yos, there's no such thing as bussing. Either he's forgotten all his games of mafia, or he's scum.

I'm pretty confident Yos is scum.

vote:yos

[BridgesAndBaloons]

why do you think repeating the same scummy point over and over again is going to make it stick? what part of this aren't you getting.

anyone else: if bridges is scum, xyl is town
bridges: STOP RIGHT THERE! XYL COULD STILL BE SCUM WITH ME!
everyone in their right mind: now why would you say that if you were anything but scum with not xyl?

and now you use the same crap to try and

validate your vote for someone else

?

I'm sorry Rofl, but I don't have a high opinion of your play in this game right now. You are following illogical statements and totally agree with them. It's going to be hard for town to win while you're alive, because you will let scum get away with nonsensical reasonings and agree with them. That is all unfortunate, because I think you're very very misguided town (well actually you're leaning neutral to me).

What do you do when I come up town? Start tunnelvissioning another townie to death?

I'm sorry I don't mean to be offensive but when you call me posts "same crap," you kind of strike first, I guess this is mostly reactionary and frustration. Anyway, my idea is that if I'm going ot be lynched, I might as well provide town with the best possible chance of winning, so I want to urge the following to you:

Rofl:

Tomorrow, when I'm town, be less headstrong and calm down and really look at all the players. Your reads are wrong this game. Refresh and come back again.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

oh yeah, I forgot when I looked at the lurkers, I found Ekim was scum.

Scum list so far

:
Yosarian2
Ekim

Town list so far

:
Ojanen

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Of course, a better question would be "As scum, has BridgesandBaloons ever claimed vanilla?" If only search weren't disabled so I could easily find out.

I have not. Helpful hint, in the future, you can check my wiki for my played games. I'll link it for you


actually I won't. . . It's Worst Role Ideas mafia and I don't have it linked yet and the search function is disabled. . . THat's the only time I've been scum. The details are a little hazy, but I either fakeclaimed a power role or I didn't have to claim at all, either way I have not ever claimed vanilla as scum.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Yosarian, I'm going to turn around and ask you if you had been reading the game. Remember when I said I attack bad logic?"

Yeah, the fact that "Xyl and Bab are not partners" is bad logic. From what I understand, you

agreed

with that being bad logic, but then you VOTED me for attacking that logic?

What? Really? Tell me I'm misunderstanding you.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

. . . But if I come up scum, they are pro-town, remember, there's no such thing as bussing Day 1.

Bullshit.

Mini 628.

I was being sarcastic, because I think Rofl's reasons for not thinking Xyl is scum with me is because I attacked him, but maybe it's more in line with Yos' reasons, which are still bad, but wouldn't be mocked by this post.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

There's something I need to say about post 149, but now is not the time. Can someone please remind me (or remind myself) to do this later, probably like 10 pages from now or more.

I think KMD is the mafia traitor. Please look at his posts in isolation. He has mentioned a scum traitor six seperate times, and one other time he specifically labled Xyl as the traitor.

Ideal play for the scum traitor is to breadcrumb scum traitor. Thus, I think KMD is scum traitor. The reason I wanted to not show this information immediately, is because I wanted to see if anyone else mentioned traitor as much as KMD did. I don't believe anyone got close.

I guess the only way to confirm this is to hunt for scum people that are not Xyl, Yos, Ekim, Me, E_k, or inHim since those are people he said is scummy. Or MAYBE he would want to but the godfather on that list? I don't hink he would. Anyway, the best way to deal with KMD is after teh godfather is dead (if one dies) then depending on who it is, look at the connection between Kmd and the player and see if my thought that he is the traitor is valid.

I normally wouldn't say this, except I'm pretty sure I'm going to die, so I might as well reveal all info I have.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Also, you seem to be voting me...because you don't understand why I just said that you wouldn't say that if you were scum with Xyl, or something?

I'm voting you because your meta is off, your posts have a sort of unaffected tone that I've encountered when reading your scum games as opposed to the active scumhunter fearsome Yos I've seen.

Also, I think your attack of me is basically opportunistic and if there wasn't a wagon on me you wouldn't be voting me.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Your cases, short version:

Ekim jumped on the two major bandwagons (5th and 6th vote), without a case and without commenting on anything else in the game.

Yos sat back, threatened to join the Xyl wagon when it was big (without discussing it much), then pushed and joined the biggest bandwagon (B&B) while commenting almost nothing else about the game - also Yos scum meta.

Thesp does not seem interested in anything about the game other than the BnB wagon, and yet has not improved his case on BnB from his original suspicion 200 posts ago.

[Elvis then talks about how all these people are neutral]

Claus - what do you think of iamausername, herodotus, and zu faul?

I read this as E_k trying to get Claus away from voting for her scumbuddies and to focus on three other people, this makes me continue to suspect E_k and adds suspicion to Thesp.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

after hitting the "preview" button instead of "submit" button 5 times in a row, I could tell I was really tired and needed to go to sleep. So I'm going to try to wrap up my thoughts, and hope I'm alive to post tomorrow.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Haven't read the last few hours post explosion but at a glance it's really weird to see all the posts look like "Blah blah blah Xyl blah blah blah Xyl blah. Blah blah blah blah Xyl blah blah."

This irrelevant observation brought to you by the zwetschenwasser school of mafia play.

TL;DR.

B&B voted me because I think you're not his scumbuddy

, which, again, probably means he's scum and you're town. He also generally continued to act like a scum trapped in a corner while not actually responding to any of the points made against him.

Yos, you JUST QUOTED MY POST HERE:

I'm voting you because your meta is off, your posts have a sort of unaffected tone that I've encountered when reading your scum games as opposed to the active scumhunter fearsome Yos I've seen.

Also, I think your attack of me is basically opportunistic

and if there wasn't a wagon on me you wouldn't be voting me.

My vote for you is because you're scum. I explained why I believe you're scum. You have completly failed to refute that. Plus you claimed vanillia, which automatically makes you a good lynch anyway.

Also, I thought you said you were voting for me because I said that if you were scum xyl was town?

If you just quoted my post, which stated my reasons for voting you, and then say that I'm voting you "because I think you're not his scumbuddy," I have no choice but to believe you are purposely

lying

and not simply missing my posts.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

He also generally continued to act like a scum trapped in a corner while

not actually responding to any of the points made against him.

I don't understand the merit in any of the points against me. This is the case I see on me:

1) I did wierd behavior from switching to vote E_k
-Okay well that's not scummy, that's WIERD

2)I attacked bad logic of using my and xyl's attacking each other to clear us as scumpartners
-if attacking bad logic is considered scummy for this town, then we will lose.


Why don't you explain the points again me, since you're voting for me. Maybe then I can respond to the points better?

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Top means most certain, blank spaces indicate tiers of my certainty. For example: most certain Yos is scum, least certain Kmd is (because I don't know if there's a traitor or not).

Scum list so far

:
Yosarian2
Ekim

Thesp

Elvis

Kmd

Town list so far

:
Ojanen


Herodutus


-----------

unvote
vote: Ekim