Mafia 98 - Apennine Mafia (Game Over)

[Battle Mage]

quoth the scum

That you're not voting for.

erm, check again? xD

For reference, that post was directed at you, and not Alex, OBVIOUSLY.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Obviously your post is directly below Alex's.

I replied to Alex's post separately. And timing wise, you could have worked out that i'd been sarnath'd. But you'll cling to ANYTHING wont ya? xD

BM

[Battle Mage]

I need to ignore Battlemage and iso him.

I don't like what I'm seeing from him at all, and I think putting together his play as a whole will shed some light on him.

I think slightly different. I think, if you iso me, you will go in looking for scumtells, and when you dont find any, you'll make them up.

But, we shall see.

Are you voting for me yet?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Great Job everyone... Nice quicklynch.

specially Camn and SensFan...

FoS: SensFan

Don't hide behind your scummy meta of hammering without reason.

Vote Battle Mage

It's him, bcc or maybe SensFan today.

Bye.

Humorous that you attack me for the Quicklynch, when i...wasnt even on the wagon. -.-
Aside from that minor error, i totally agree with you. The Sens hammer was premature, and some of his comments at the end of day seemed really wierd. On the one hand, you could say he seemed pretty darn certain that he wasn't getting NKed. But then, perhaps this was a WIFOM ploy to get scum not to NK him. If so, it seems to have worked.

The problem with this game is, more than 50% of the players are good policy lynches at this point, and we cant deal with them all. We need to be lynching scummy players, but we dont want lurkers to get a free-ride either.

Camn getting killed is an absolute God-send, because she was both a policy-lynch, and a scummy player, who we now won't waste a mislynch on.

I'll be honest-i did pull a Benmage last night. Although not to the same extent. lol
Just a bit of analysis of the end of the day, which i missed, due to not being on this site 24 hours a day. -.-'

I was speaking to the Mod last night, and kinda realised that my position on BCC is pretty unclear. Cephrir was a necessary lynch, and sadly, i still can't clarify my thoughts on BCC. But, on more objective examination, they arent CONCLUSIVE enough for me to say im certain BCC is town. If i implemented a Vollkan-like system, BCC would be at about 40% scum.

So, whilst i am not CERTAIN BCC is town, you can understand why i do not think he is a great lynch when there are other people who i feel are more likely to be scum than town. I will oppose a BCC lynch today.

I'm perplexed by Gieff's continued existence in this game. If he's town, it should probably tell him something about his performance thus far...
That said, i agree with him regarding Camn's meta. She was not playing anything like the way i've seen her play as town before.

Regarding KMD's vote analysis, i dont think it's acceptable to conclude there was definitely scum on the Cephrir wagon. Cephrir was pretty much a certain lynch-and scum could quite easily have distanced from it. I was one of the prime lynch pushers, and i wasnt even voting for Cephrir by the end of the Day.

The Camn NK clearly implicates Gieff.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Vote: Kmd

He was completely absent for yesterday, bar 2 posts, where he criticised the activity, and attacked Gieff because he had on Day 1. Today he hasnt pursued Gieff again, and seems to want to play the game. I could see scum getting bolder with less townies to contend with, and i'm thinking it might be good to look at people who have been out of the spotlight till now.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Reading DDD, didnt find much really. Nothing really off with his posting, except it has been infrequent, and his vote history isnt great. But i dont really get a scummy vibe. Also, now we're at the stage where a significant proportion of the players are scum, looking for anti-pairings could be useful. Due to the following:

Great, nine pages in twenty hours, that’ll really encourage me to participate more.

Despite the objections I’ve seen townies (possibly Benmage in other games, Ben links if so) prepare in such a fashion overnight. I think his choice of targets to ISO is strange and was more than a little influenced by the amount people posted. That was about the best use of a self-vote I’ve ever seen, though I doubt the wagon would’ve gained any more steam as different people came online.

I think Alex’s reaction to my behavior is hilarious and he can’t spell the word collaborate properly.

I’d usually object to lurker pressure/lynching, since the prod mechanism is supposed to make sure they post occasionally, but since that hasn’t worked I’d be fine with it in this case.

Vote: Cephrir

DDD is not scum with Benmage.

I think i saw another anti-pairing with Benmage earlier. Will look now.

BM

[Battle Mage]

damnit, that was with Camn. Not entirely helpful.

a Zach-Gieff pairing is very feasible, due to their reactions to me pairing them together yesterday.

But i'm thinking Zach is probably town. His starting post, inviting attention on himself, is protown, and stuff i picked up overnight. In fact, i'll post that now.

BM

[Battle Mage]

End of Day analysis.

1452 by Zach is very protown. He argued earlier that he preferred a BCC lynch to a Cephrir one, which could have been distancing from a mislynch, but he joins the Cephrir wagon at -3, i think,by which time it will almost certainly go to a lynch without his help. His attitude towards the lurkers is very bloodthirsty, and i dont see why he would choose to come across this way, if he genuinely wanted mislynches. His paranoia towards me is probably understandable, but if he uses it to push a lynch on me tomorrow, rather than BCC, he may need to be looked at again, because it isn't consistent with his own criticism of my play - namely that i didnt intend to run up BCC after Cephrir. For now, i'm going to say town, although his lying and apprehension havent escaped me.

SpyreX's 1451 is also highly protown. He even makes a big deal of a contingency in which Cephrir is scum. Absolutely no motivation to do this as scum, especially as it is likely to alienate Gieff-one of the...louder, players in the game.
Was a Cephrir hater from Day 1.

Gieff's play yesterday was far from stellar, and tbh, i'll be surprised if he isnt NKed tonight. That would suggest that either, he is WAY off with his accusations, or is scum. His stance on Cephrir was ridiculous in the face of the evidence, but this conflicts with my earlier town read of him. Reread would probably be helpful here. I wouldnt be at all surprised to see a Camn-Gieff scumpair, given their interactions, and the fact they are both still alive. Camn herself has been way off for quite a while now. Her stance on Gieff is so inconsistent, but im not sure if this is scummy. 1472 stands against my theory of a Camn-Gieff pairing. Like Gieff, i dont understand why Camn brought up the VP kill now. But unless Camn is playing the newbie card to try and survive longer, i think it can only be a towntell. I'm very perplexed as to why Benmage then says he doesnt understand the VP Baltar kill. VP was pretty obvtown by the end of that day, and he was annoying as hell. If i was scum, he'd have definitely been a potential target for me.

1437 shows Gieff shouldnt have had a massive aversion to a Cephrir lynch. Ah, i think im hitting my head against a brick wall. Gieff's mentality is pretty darn protown.

Jammer's play yesterday, by contrast, was good. He confirmed my meta on Cephrir, and he has pointed out obvious reasons for me being town. Of course, this could well be buddying, but if he's town, he's pulled his finger out. He's been protecting me all game, and i'm not entirely sure if thats normal. lol
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd still be happy to lynch Jammer at this point, if KMD doesnt go anywhere. I'm still not entirely sure what to do about Alex.

Ben - What do you reckon we should do with Alex?
Also, what kind of tell do you think the Camn-NK would be towards you?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Humorous that you attack me for the Quicklynch, when i...wasnt even on the wagon. -.-

Ridiculous, Battle Mage. YOU are the main reason we lynched Cephrir over bcc. Not being on the wagon just makes you look scummier.

Lol, you know my views on the length of days. You also know i was Pro-Cephrir lynch. My only issue is the speed with which it happened-i'd rather have seen more discussion beforehand.

Please feel free to tell me how you feel the speed of the lynch was my fault, when you were very keen to push a BCC lynch.

I'm perplexed by Gieff's continued existence in this game. If he's town, it should probably tell him something about his performance thus far...

Gieff's play yesterday was far from stellar, and tbh, i'll be surprised if he isnt NKed tonight.

I don't get it. If my play has been poor, why would I get NK'd? Looks like you're trying to use a NK IN ADVANCE to make me look scummy.

The second quote is unclear. If i worded it like that, i apologise. Your play yesterday was poor, but you did manage to stay well clear of the Cephrir lynch. True, you arent likely to help run up scum today either. But you are a loud player, that most of us had concluded as protown. Baltar was killed, and he wasn't as protown as you. It seems really odd that Camn was killed too-when if you were town, you'd have continued to exert most of your energy on him. The fact nobody has pointed this out makes it more valid imo. Your acknowledged this yourself.

So yes, i consider you a suspect now. But, i think we can afford to deal with you later. Jammer and KMD are my top priorities today.

What do you mean by the phrase "NK IN ADVANCE"?

BM

[Battle Mage]

1437 shows Gieff shouldnt have had a massive aversion to a Cephrir lynch. Ah, i think im hitting my head against a brick wall. Gieff's mentality is pretty darn protown.

I did NOT have a massive aversion to a Cephrir-lynch. What I had a massive aversion to was people just blindly charging ahead and lynching one of two lurkers without thinking about it, just because YOU claimed to have some rock-solid meta read on bcc that you couldn't tell us about.

If you felt that was a concern, you should've sucked it up and voted for me. You werent voting for me, or expressing any concern about my affiliation. There was no reason not to trust me, or to throw a hissy-fit - UNLESS you knew that Cephrir was town, and wanted to play for town kudos.

Furthermore, don't even think about criticising people for lynching Cephrir over BCC, when you yourself showed us why Cephrir was more likely to be scum than town. Don't pretend everyone is stupid, when you can't see the consequences of your posts. If you didnt have some sort of aversion to a Cephrir lynch, and you didnt find me particularly scummy, why did you make such a big fuss about BCC? It seems markedly inconsistent, to me.

Why weren't you on the Cephrir wagon, Battle Mage? You worked for pages and pages and pages to get him lynched, but did NOT end up on the wagon, and are already trying to use that fact to make yourself look townie.

*facepalm*

I didnt use it to "make myself look more townie". Read again please.
I used it to point out that the QUICKLYNCH was not my fault, given i was not on the wagon. Before you come out here, guns blazing, please take a deep breath and think carefully about the accusations you are chucking around.

You say the camn kill likely implicated me, and that if I am NOT killed tomorrow, that also implicates me. But you squirm your way out of a commitment by then claming that I play pro-town. Trying to pull a Cephrir?

Pull a Cephrir? lol i dont get it.

Do you not think it's odd that you are still alive, and Camn is dead?
Who do you think the kill implicates?
Why did you feel the burgeoning need to apologise when the game opened?

I'm amused by your claim that

I

am avoiding a commitment. Ironic much? lol

Throw some NK-WIFOM crap my way, wait for people to come charging after you to "make you happy" and then claim you had nothing to do with my

mislynch

tomorrow?

Lol, have you got Jammer on your mind? xD

I think you might be getting a LITTLE over-defensive here.

Bolding mine. Already playing with the subliminal stuff...

BM

[Battle Mage]

You are not responsible for the speed of the wagon, but you are responsible for the wagon itself.

I never made any bones about that. It was the right lynch.

What do you mean by the phrase "NK IN ADVANCE"?

You are saying that if I am not night-killed tonight (which I will not be), then I am scummy tomorrow. Controlling the NK-speculation before you even make the kill.

Lol paranoia about strong players not being NKed is not a new thing for me. Again, i cant reference this, but you could always ask Yos. xD
It's a BM-towntell.

And it's fairly reasonable imo. Why are you so sure you won't be killed tonight? You really think the scum are gonna make their NK based on what I say? xD

It seems really odd that Camn was killed too-when if you were town, you'd have continued to exert most of your energy on him. The fact nobody has pointed this out makes it more valid imo. Your acknowledged this yourself.

Well, one possible motive for killing camn could be to try to make me look scummy - can you think of anybody who has done that so far today?

Just me? And i'm town. So, from my PoV, it's unlikely that the Camn-kill was to implicate you, given nobody has bothered to follow it up. But, i can understand a level of concern from yours.

Note also, that despite your anxious reaction to my comments on you, you arent my 1st of 2nd lynch candidate atm. Why would i have made a fuss of killing Camn last night, if i didnt really intend to pursue you straight afterwards - which would obviously be optimal.

What makes me know my play has been poor is not the fact that I am still alive, but camn's alignment.

Haha, not sure my flip is gonna make you feel much better. lmao

Why weren't you on the Cephrir lynch?

I'm not sure. lol
I dont think i moved my vote back from Zach, after i bailed to attack him for his comments on me and the Ceph/BCC discussion. If i'd noticed, i'd probably have switched back, but the day ended somewhat prematurely...
Does it really matter?

BM

[Battle Mage]

I made a big fuss because it matters who we lynch.

My meta did NOT prove Cephrir scum - you keep claiming this, but I don't agree.

Well, you're wrong. And i'm not the only one who has pointed this out. The only person here who had ANY meta excuse for thinking Cephrir was town, was Zach. All your evidence pointed to Cephrir-scum, and the fact you didnt pick this up, makes me wonder whether you are genuinely scumhunting, or just trying to distance from a mislynch.

Do you not think it's odd that you are still alive, and Camn is dead?

I am not at all surprised to be alive, but I am surprised camn is dead. I think the kill implicates whoever tries to use it to their benefit.

Of course you WOULD say that.

Maybe we should take a vote?

Comrades:

If you feel that Gieff is town, are you surprised that he is still alive?

Do you not consider yourself the most threatening player in this game? Because, frankly, i do.

Moreover, an interesting question for you:

If i, or anyone, was intending to use the NK to get a mislynch today, tell me- Why would we not NK you, and use that to implicate Camn?

Given there was already alot of support for a Camn lynch, that seems like a far more logical option, dont you think?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Newly-humbled GIEFF is going to take a backseat now to try to avoid way too many pages of text or steering the town in the wrong direction.

Lol! Might i speculate that this is another benefit to you killing Camn? You can become far less confident, and move your vote around more freely. With Camn alive, you had to stay consistent, and that meant keeping close tabs on her.

I'm feeling much better about this...

BM

[Battle Mage]

No way. There was severe opposition to a camn lynch, and almost every player in the game has voted for me at one point or another.

Don't play dumb. I suspect if Camn and you had both been alive today, she'd have been lynched-probably within 72 hours of the thread opening. -.-

I do not consider myself the most threatening player in the game. I think the reason I was not killed is that so many people find me scummy.

Lmao. I call BS. I don't think any scumbag seriously expected they'd be able to push a mislynch on you. One of the basic concepts of the Mountainous setup, is that scum dont need to look for power-roles, so they can concentrate on killing players that they cant lynch.

You fit into this category quite neatly imo. You don't seem quite as open to arguing today either. Tell me, what do you think of KMD?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Lmao. I call BS. I don't think any scumbag seriously expected they'd be able to push a mislynch on you.

I appreciate your confidence that I am town.

I think KMD is scummy.

Dont understand the first bit. Simply spin?

Was hoping you'd agree on KMD. Even if he isn't your top suspect, i figured you might be amenable to a wagon to test him.
Carefully monitored, i'll add.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Yes alex, that is what I meant by BM "pulling a Cephrir." Ensuring a lynch goes through, but staying off the wagon to try to avoid suspicion.

That's ridiculous. It can only really apply to someone who never votes for the person-not someone who starts and pushes it.

It's so stupid, i don't believe for a second that you yourself give it ANY credence.

BM

[Battle Mage]

@MOD Did BCC pick up his prod?

Ben - What do you reckon we should do with Alex?
Also, what kind of tell do you think the Camn-NK would be towards you?

Alex…let me ponder him. However even if he is scum, there are still two other scum and I’ll feel more comfortable searching out them seeing as I find some individuals very scummy.

That's pretty much my stance tbh. Annoying as he is, i still look at him and think "newbie" moreso than "scum". The problem is, he isn't the kind of issue that will resolve itself. Unlike Gieff, there's little chance that the scum would NK Alex-town, so at some point we need to look at him. If you have some more detailed thoughts, they'd be useful.

Where did you (and Alex) conclude 3 scum from? Looking at the numbers, i'd have leaned more towards 4. *Shrug* maybe i'm wrong.

Camn NK, re-affrims me as town personally. I openly apologized to her (after first asking the mod to pm her, but was told he couldn’t allow the outside communication.) I came off abrasive and insulting to her, and plan to pm her once this game is over. I was trying to get her out of her defensive shell by D2. Why NK someone who attached their vote to your own.

In the interest of balance, i have to point out this is scummy, for the same reasons as Gieff's comment. PMing her in private is ok, but making a show of apologising and acting surprised, seems more likely to be a scum-endeavour than a town one.

Your last point is a valid one, and one i was expecting you to use.

I don't see why people would apologise to Camn now she is dead. If you were rude, you were rude, REGARDLESS of her affiliation. Her coming up town doesnt make it any more wrong.

Lol, you know my views on the length of days. You also know i was Pro-Cephrir lynch. My only issue is the speed with which it happened-i'd rather have seen more discussion beforehand.

I was pro the ceph lynch as well. But I wanted to wait for the prods to go through before hammering. That hammer was disgusting. Yes, gieff I too plan to avoid games with those two individuals. It is very frustrating and in truth I have difficulty comprehending why people sign up for a

game

and then don’t play it…only ruining others fun. If forced to play with them I will adamantly try and policy-lynch them.

Policy lynching them is a poor idea. Instead, make good use of your read on them. They should be far easier to meta after this game. Then, when they are replaced, you should know whether that player is town or scum, and can act accordingly. Notifying mods of their past activity is probably a better idea.

I am not at all surprised to be alive, but I am surprised camn is dead. I think the kill implicates whoever tries to use it to their benefit.

I am surprised I am alive.

So was i tbh. But not really logically-there wasnt much cause for scum to kill me. I'm just paranoid.

BM

[Battle Mage]

My reads

GIEFF: Town
jammer: Town

Benmage: Almost town

Zach: neutral, leaning town
SpyreX: neutral, leaning town

DDD: neutral. leaning Scum

bcc: neutral, leaning scum

Sensfan: neutral, leaning scum

KMD: neutral, Leaning Scum.

BM: scum

I know there can't be that much scum... But I'm not really sure who is really scum. BCC, I have no reads but Kai's exit + gut makes him look scum. DDD's lack of scumhunting is scummy. KMD's attitude towards Camn is scummy. KMD's play so far is scummy. SensFan is anti-town to the max. He may be hiding behind his meta.

(Colouring mine)

Why is Kai's exit a scumtell? Gut won't fly.

I pretty much agree on DDD, but again, lack of posting isnt really enough to lynch at this point. I agree on Sensfan hiding behind his meta. Not sure what to make of him atm.

Wanna elaborate on your KMD suspicion?

We need some BCC, DDD and SensFan input ASAP

Why do you want more input from 3 people who you think are more likely than not to be scum?

We have 3 scum in that 5 person pool.

Why 3? And whats with the confidence? I've seen cops with more caution than you! I doubt you consider your scumhunting to be THAT impeccable.

We have at least 2 more lynches. So there's no way we can fail to lynch scum. But we should try to lynch right today. I'm very confident BM is the right lynch. I'm gonna think a bit about pairings but I'm not sure how much can I trust that.

Thinking about pairings is a good idea. But i'm a terrible lynch. You should just NK me and be done with it. In fact, if you're town, i bet good money that if you stopped attacking me for 1 day, i'd be killed that night. So, thanks. xD

-------------------------------

GIEFF:

What do you think about your Camn+Alex theory now?

Newly-humbled GIEFF is going to take a backseat now to try to avoid way too many pages of text or steering the town in the wrong direction.

Good. That will be healthy for the game.

You HAVE to be kidding me. You think we need LESS participation!? 0.o

Also, ^ Motive for Alex-scum to kill Camn.

[quote-"Alex"]

I do not consider myself the most threatening player in the game. I think the reason I was not killed is that so many people find me scummy.

And probably because your massive rain of posts pulled this game into a bloody confusion that helps scum.[/quote]

This is a terrible stance. I know you won't take anything i say seriously at this point, but for future reference, you should heed well- High levels of posting like we have seen in this game is PROTOWN. Simple spam is NOT. But posting here is actually productive-for those of us who are playing, anyway.

Battle Mage (this is all for you)

:

Woop Woop! xD

Humorous that you attack me for the Quicklynch, when i...wasnt even on the wagon. -.-

I didn't vote you for that waggon. I vote you because you're scum and you supported a quicklynch but tried to stay off it...

My comment to Gieff needs amending to you. Because clearly i can't expect the same level of rationality from you as town. Suffice to say, my play regarding the Ceph wagon cannot be attributed a scum motive. I'm pretty sure your vote on me is just because, for the last 40 pages, you cant be bothered to actually analyse this game. There isnt anything i can say to change your mind, so tell me-what's the point us even talking?

You need to open your eyes, comrade.

The problem with this game is, more than 50% of the players are good policy lynches at this point,

Bullshit. Stop talking like SensFan. There's no GOOD policy lynches. We have to lynch scum not people that we dislike for some reason.

A policy lynch in this case is not somebody i dislike. It's somebody that hasnt committed conventional scumtells, but we can't really deal with, and we certainly dont want to give a victory to. Lurkers like Ceph and BCC fitted that category for most people. Sensfan fits it, because he's hiding behind a scummy meta, and we cant get a read on him. You fit it, because you've been

worse

than useless, and aren't participating in anything remotely like a protown manner. DDD also fits it, for active lurking, and displaying an open willingness to participate the bare minimum.

Sometimes SensFan talks a lot of sense, i guess.

Camn getting killed is an absolute God-send, because she was both a policy-lynch, and a scummy player, who we now won't waste a mislynch on.

IIRC, you said she was town...

Really? I recall my public stance being pretty torn. In any case, i looked at the game in a different light overnight-hence my changing opinion on Zach.

regarding GIEFF's performance... there's 2 choices... he is scum... or he is town and is hurting the town with his enormous quantities of posts where he just tunnel visions on someone and keeps trying to find reasons to call them scum. I think the latter.

I don't even want to dignify the last bit with a response. I suspect Gieff will probably punish you accordingly. How can YOU call somebody on tunnel-visioning? lmfao

And, frankly, your list above, had Gieff in the "certain town" category. So why are you sounding less confident now?

I was one of the prime lynch pushers

, and i wasnt even voting for Cephrir by the end of the Day.

Wich is inconsistent... Why did you derail the bcc waggon but then didn't take responsability for the Cephir one?

Did you not read what you quoted? I'll highlight it for you.

That's me taking responsibility. What's your prob?

The Camn NK clearly implicates Gieff.

This is bs. You're night speculating when you voted Mastin for it.

Night speculating on Night 0 is foolish. Night speculating on a player whose presence was dominated by another, is perfectly reasonable. Whether Gieff committed the kill or not, is to be determined. But, the obvious conclusion we are expected to draw is that he did, or scum want us to think he did. I was leaning towards the former, but hearing from you and Benmage has swayed me back to the latter.

1508: shows why you're scum. Now you say that the Cephir vote had evidence that indicated he was scum?

Would be helpful if you quoted 1508. Anyway, i said at the time my Cephrir vote was a well-reasoned one. If you were following yesterday, you would know this. Why do you find it surprising now?

And you call Camn scummy NOW?

Yep. But, again, i'm pretty sure i voiced my doubts on her yesterday as well. I'm not the master at this game, and i'm not afraid to admit when i'm wrong. I was wrong to doubt Camn. But not as wrong as the Mafia were for NKing her. xD

And VP Baltar obv town? This is all designed to make you look good.

You do realise that Camn was town? And so was Cephrir? How does me thinking they could both be scum, correspond with me being CORRECT about VP Baltar?

I seriously doubt you even know what you are arguing anymore. You're just twisting anything you can to try and make a case, however illogical. But you give me lol's, i guess. It's just frustrating when i think you might be town, and if so, i honestly dont know what we can do with you...

Do you realize that scum can buss each other? If you do... then you'll see that anti-pairing is not so effective.

Which Anti-Pairing?

Ben - What do you reckon we should do with Alex?

Huh? Are you looking to see if you have support for a mislynch?

Yeh, thats right. You got me.

I think, if you're town, you getting lynched is the second best thing you can do for your chances of winning.

Why do you keep asking who does the kill implicate when we all know that scum has 100 % control over it? Didn't SensFan and DDD said that? Didn't you agree? Why do you use it when it's convinient to you? (That was rethorical, the answer is because you're scum)

Lmao. I don't really see what you're getting at here. Firstly, you were pro-kill speculation. Secondly, how does scum having control over the kill mean we cant speculate? :S

Just me? And i'm town. So, from my PoV, it's unlikely that the Camn-kill was to implicate you, given nobody has bothered to follow it up. But, i can understand a level of concern from yours.

Note also, that despite your anxious reaction to my comments on you, you arent my 1st of 2nd lynch candidate atm. Why would i have made a fuss of killing Camn last night, if i didnt really intend to pursue you straight afterwards - which would obviously be optimal.

It's amazing how you try to look town and buddy GIEFF in every post but still want others to pick on what you say and make him look scummy.
--------------------------------

Why do you draw a parallel between "looking town" and "buddying Gieff"?

Seems like you might be referring to your own play here. Iirc, this post started with you claiming that Gieff was definitely town.

I'm not interested in a Gieff-lynch at this point. Nor do i really want an Alex-lynch. I actually just want you to stop posting.

Ftr, i think you might confuse me "trying to look town" with me "actually being town". Just a thought. lol

BM

[Battle Mage]

Yes alex, that is what I meant by BM "pulling a Cephrir." Ensuring a lynch goes through, but staying off the wagon to try to avoid suspicion.

That's ridiculous. It can only really apply to someone who never votes for the person-not someone who starts and pushes it.

It's so stupid, i don't believe for a second that you yourself give it ANY credence.

BM

It is not stupid at all. You used your absence from the Cephrir-wagon to defend yourself:

Humorous that you attack me for the Quicklynch, when i...wasnt even on the wagon. -.-

I used it to defend myself from your apparent accusation that i was a quicklyncher. I can tolerate you calling me scum, but when you call me anti-town, that's pushing it.

BM

[Battle Mage]

^^ Wich is exactly what everyone blamed Mastin for... Auto-clearing himself.

Damn, you really loved Mastin, huh? Shame you didnt do more to keep him alive, really.
What was this post linking to?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Yes alex, that is what I meant by BM "pulling a Cephrir." Ensuring a lynch goes through, but staying off the wagon to try to avoid suspicion.

That's ridiculous. It can only really apply to someone who never votes for the person-not someone who starts and pushes it.

It's so stupid, i don't believe for a second that you yourself give it ANY credence.

BM

It is not stupid at all. You used your absence from the Cephrir-wagon to defend yourself:

Humorous that you attack me for the Quicklynch, when i...wasnt even on the wagon. -.-

I used it to defend myself from your apparent accusation that i was a quicklyncher. I can tolerate you calling me scum, but when you call me anti-town, that's pushing it.

BM

Note the "you" in this is referring to Alex's original point, rather than Gieff, who has apparently felt the need to give him cuddles.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Where did you (and Alex) conclude 3 scum from? Looking at the numbers, i'd have leaned more towards 4. *Shrug* maybe i'm wrong.

-----------------------
Some post to show you that BM doesn't even know what he is saying and is trying to BS everyone everytime.

113

I don't feel like researching too much right now about numbers... I still stick to my 4 scum theory (And it's practically a wcs that we could use as guideline if we mislynch 3 times in a row... we'll assume lylo).

It's really wierd how you are desperate to push the 4 scum theory, but it is in the interests of the town anyway to promote cautiousness.

------------------------------------

That was in reference to your shouting at everyone about the number of scum, on Day 1. If you believed there were 4 scum, why are you now assuming 3? Personally, i still think 4 is more likely. My attacks on you early in the game were not because what you were saying was wrong, but because you seemed so keen to argue about it, when it was utterly irrelevant.

142

I'm usually told that setup-speculation is bad, but here we are, wondering how many scum there is and no one has said anything there was anything wrong about it.

Because it's totally and utterly, IRRELEVANT. Commenting on the number of scum we might have on Day 1, is the most pointless exercise i can imagine. Maybe look at it lately, and by all means, err on the side of caution, but your attempts to bully everyone into believing there are 4 scum, when there is no way in hell you could know that as town, have not gone unnoticed by me. What annoys me is, i cant even see a logical reason to make that argument as scum, unless you are just deliberately out to mislead at every turn, or you wanna get your chips in quick, so you can later cry "I told ya so!"

I never concluded there was 3 scum... I just went along with everyone because everyone kept telling me that 4 was improbable. Wether it's 4 or 3, There's still 3 scum in that pool.

Where's the 4th scum then, smart guy?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Responses to 1517 would be appreciated. Gieff especially, as he has apparently avoided it.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Stop with the large quotes, please. I agree activity is pro-town, but you and alex quote-war-walling goes beyond that, and gives those who are NOT active a better excuse for their anti-town behavior.

Haha, if at some point either you or Alex come to be potential lynches, these quotes will come in handy. I don't see why i should neglect to respond to attacks against me-no matter how illogical they may be.

Why did you feel the need to argue, alongside Alex, that i was trying to pretend i wasnt attacking Cephrir, when i think i already pointed out how ill-considered such a comment was?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Because you used your absence from a Cephrir-lynch as a defense.

i'm not saying it again. If you werent listening the first 2 times, you wont now.

BM

[Battle Mage]

lol. i cant even be bothered to reply. If someone else wants to do it for me, that'd be very nice.

BM

[Battle Mage]

joy. This game really wears on me when Benmage isn't here.

[Battle Mage]

lmao. Lesson i've learnt-do the exact opposite of what Alex says. Because usually he gets his meaning wrong anyway. xD

BM

[Battle Mage]

I never said that Camn town meant Alex town. I just said that an Alex+Camn scumpair because I used a buddying language (coaching?) was stupid.

How would anyone accuse you of coaching Camn?

BM

[Battle Mage]

DDD has posted in other places but hasn't even posted to say hi...

Hi.

*shrug*

Unvote, Vote: DDD

If i'm gonna lose this game, i'm at least gonna lose it to somebody who was TRYING to play.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Zach, if you can reference your meta on DDD, that'd be fab.

Vote: Kmd

He was completely absent for yesterday, bar 2 posts, where he criticised the activity, and attacked Gieff because he had on Day 1. Today he hasnt pursued Gieff again, and seems to want to play the game. I could see scum getting bolder with less townies to contend with, and i'm thinking it might be good to look at people who have been out of the spotlight till now.

BM

I'm "absent" all over MS lately. That's partially why I'm leaving the site. No time for mafia anymore.

I'd still be willing to vote GIEFF, but I've kind of second guessed my stance on him as the game has gone on, so he's not top priority.

What do you mean by "bold" and why is it a scumtell?

why are you suddenly more active now? The word "bold" is referring to you "coming out of the woodwork" today.

BM

[Battle Mage]

WTF? Gloating is a scumtell? I have the right to attack those who played poorly and allowed a town lurker to be quicklynched over a possbile scum lurker.

I guess i spoke too soon.

Unvote, Vote: Alex

I'm sick and tired of making excuses for his schoolboy errors and slips. If you KNEW Cephrir was town, tell me, why didnt you say anything? Yet another terrible scum-slip.

I want you dead, right this minute. Anyone who wants to try and restore a bit of fun back into the game, please join me.

--------------------------------
BCC hasn't posted since 19 July... however... he confirmed first night and then via kairyuu... what's up with that?

both times he confirmed was via Kairyuu. I'm not sure the Mod has actually heard from BCC himself, first or last.

GIEFF... it would be cool if you could divide the votepatterns by days... for the next one...

DIY?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Zach, if you can reference your meta on DDD, that'd be fab.

I have referenced the game previously in this game. It's mini 761. Do you need a link to it again?

well, i'm a little lazy and forgetful, but im sure i'll manage.
Are you with me on the Alex wagon?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Zach, if you can reference your meta on DDD, that'd be fab.

I have referenced the game previously in this game. It's mini 761. Do you need a link to it again?

well, i'm a little lazy and forgetful, but im sure i'll manage.
Are you with me on the Alex wagon?

BM

lol, your vote on DDD lasted 7 minutes.

Don't get me wrong, I am willing to vote Alex as well today, I'd just like to see if DDD is willing to post anything or not.

Lol xD

I doubt he will tbh. He's not been worried about being suspected before, and he's basically asking for it. I don't see him posting anything useful on our time, so a vote on him is effectively a vote for another lurker lynch.

I'm not much more confident with Alex, but at least with him dead, we might be able to make some progress with the game. Plus, his death will give us plenty of information i should think.

BM

[Battle Mage]

lol.... You're so full of it BM...

everytime you see some anti-Alex feeling you try to mildly get me lynched. Although you've excused several times so they can't come back at you when I flip town...

Nothing mild about me.

To be perfectly honest, i never want to play a game with you again. You went way too far yesterday and made it personal.

I'm normally quite a calm person, but when i'm concerned about getting myself modkilled, it's a sad state of affairs. I don't want to reduce the game to meaningless insults. And it's not like there's any merit in me talking to you.

you were the one who was saying Cephir was scum and BCC town for undisclosed meta reasons... cut the crap.

Also, make a list of reads like I did. Stop changing your mind with the tide.

Lol, i should warn you-the day you play a game with the less forgiving players of MS, is the day you will be publically spanked for your condescending attitude.

BM

[Battle Mage]

What info would you get with my lynch Battle Mage?

What info did you get with Mastin's lynch? With Cephir's?

I was against the Mastin lynch.

The Cephrir lynch was never intended as an information lynch. In fairness to you, you have at least been around. If you're scum, it should be fairly easy to nail your buddies. If you're town, we can pretty much ignore you, which will make a reread far more comprehensible.

BM

[Battle Mage]

BM, stop trying making it personal. It is scummy.

I tried not to. The game just isn't fun when it's like this. You can call me scummy all you like, this is really not up for discussion.

In fact, if you dont wanna lynch Alex, lynch me instead. That resolves the issue too.

BM

[Battle Mage]

A concise list of examples of Alex's abuse within the last 48 hours:

To me:

short answers to BM's bullshit are...

You continue asking BS questions

He has been the Prince of Bullshit

I know what BM really stands for: Bullshit Master

You're so full of it BM...

to idiotic questions

more idiotic questions from BM

Mayor Fencesitter

BM doesn't even know what he is saying and is trying to BS everyone

Bullshit. Stop talking like SensFan

This is bs

To Zach:

concept was bullshit

not shaming or any other bull of the kind

The constant baiting cannot continue.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Yes, you're right. Alex, cut it out, too. Just stop addressing each other for now. Let others catch up.

Thanks dad. In all seriousness, if you guys want to lynch someone scummy today, why not take a front seat in doing so? Last i checked, our 2 main wagons were on BCC and Sensfan.

The thing is, this situation won't be resolved until Alex is dead. What happens if we end up in a 3 person endgame situation, with Alex-town, me and a scumbag? It's game-over.

I appreciate you trying to mediate, but i'm still angry. And i seriously feel that this is the only way he will learn from the game.

BM

[Battle Mage]

lol, i love eating supper in my room. xD

[Battle Mage]

In the US, so still not able to catch up.

Just skimmed this game, though (yes, I'm visiting my girlfriend for the first time and I spent time reading 5 pages of a Mafia game that pisses me off to no end).

There's 3 Scum. Not 2. Not 4. 3.
Way to call me a main wagon target and all this while I'm not here. Especially calling me out and claiming you want more content from me.

Alex is probably Scum. I could settle for a BM lynch, since he has gone way downhill in the last little while.

---

I get home tomorrow night, and will then catch up sometime wednesday.
And yes, whoever said that. I think its perfectly reasonable that if I'm away for 3 days it takes me a day or so to catch up on this ridiculous amount of posting, especially since I work 10-hour days.

calm down, and talk about me some more please.

BM

[Battle Mage]

How the hell do you have a town read on Spyrex?

I listed SpyreX as obvtown too. Why didnt you question that?

BM

[Battle Mage]

I’m reading the latest GIEFF/Battle Mage exchange on page 61 and Battle Mage’s stances are just absolutely baffling to me. Describing GIEFF with phrases like “pro-town” and “good play” just does not compute for me; especially when Battle Mage simultaneously seemed to be arguing that the last NK implicated him.

The NK implicating him does not mean he is scum. It could just as easily be scum making it look that way.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Ok, DDD is posting again.

Unvote:

At this point I'm considering a vote on either Sensfan (really not liking that hammer) or Alexhans (really not liking the gloating.)

Gonna need to see more before I can come to a decision I'm happy with though.

is DDD posting a towntell?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Both Ceph AND bcc picked up their prods, and neither posted. So you can't use this as a reason to prefer one to apples an apple is fruit.

are you comparing apples to oranges?

I didn't see you list Spyrex as town, BM. Were you referring to this?

SpyreX's 1451 is also highly protown. He even makes a big deal of a contingency in which Cephrir is scum. Absolutely no motivation to do this as scum, especially as it is likely to alienate Gieff-one of the...louder, players in the game.
Was a Cephrir hater from Day 1.

You said one post of his was pro-town, you didn't call him obvtown. And you are wrong about 1451 - it is decidedly anti-town. Cephrir and bcc did almost the exact same thing, yet Spyrex (along with others) ignored ncc completely and focused on Cephrir, whom we ended up mislynching.

i dont know who you are trying to persuade. I still believe the Cephrir lynch was the correct course of action.

BM

[Battle Mage]

EBWOP:

Both Ceph AND bcc picked up their prods, and neither posted. So you can't use this as a reason to prefer one to the other. It's akin to saying you prefer apples to oranges because an apple is fruit.

Hahahahahahahha!!!!!! I knew it! lmfao

BM

[Battle Mage]

*shrug*

Unvote, Vote: DDD

If

i'm gonna lose this game

, i'm at least gonna lose it to somebody who was TRYING to play.

BM

Charter once told me on AIM that it's usually scum who post first person PoV statements about winning or losing the game. I'm not sure I like the tell, but it was accurate in a few games he referenced. Hmm.

One suspects that Charter might be wrong.
He's not exactly the Paragon of Mafia Hunters.

BM

[Battle Mage]

because i've felt he was town for ages.

[Battle Mage]

*shrug* reread i guess.

BM

[Battle Mage]

If Alex is scum and i get lynched tomorrow, then i'll be very happy. lol

Makes me wonder if thats what Alex was going for all along?

Anyway, if Alex is scum, after me, you'll be wanting to lynch Jammer.

That's all for now.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Zach. Also, I take it that your suspicion about me now overrides GIEFF, Benmage and Battle Mage right?

You really Zach (If you get my drift).

*facepalm*

[Battle Mage]

@Gieff- thats pretty silly. Ive said i think Alex is town. If i was a betting man, thats where my money would be. The main reason i want him dead today, is because he's making the game really unenjoyable for me, and tbh, i think thats more important atm, than winning. There's a chance he is scum, but i wouldnt bet my life on it.

*shrug* I really dont want to see Alex-scum win, so i guess you can lynch him tomorrow. But, tbh, i think there are scummier people out there.

@Zach- Bit of a chance of pace, hombre. As i'm probably dead today, i'll do you guys the courtesy of catching up and responding to everything, so there's no excuses tomorrow. I'm not entirely sure what you're gonna draw from my flip, because im not entirely sure who is scum either.

Apparently you guys missed 1703.

Final point i'd like to make- i called this from the start. We should have lynched him Day 1, because at least that was a mislynch we could progress from

Will respond to all, promptly.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Consequently, Alexhans' desire to see BM lynched is far more consistent than BM's wishy-washy voting patterns. Another good argument for BM over Alex.

consistency is not a town-tell. lol

BM

[Battle Mage]

ok... KMD... no, wait... Benmage!!!

I wholeheartedly welcome GIEFF's change of mind (if that's what it is). But you should see that there's still a reason for it.

He acted pretty sure Camn was scum all along. Then went for me because I was "coaching" and "buddying" Camn. Now that Camn is town. His whole theory falls into pieces.

Anyway... I understand your point. He could've even plotted killing Camn so he had an excuse to not pursue me anymore... But I'm not scum... so... keep guessing...
-----
Zach 1705: At this point... if I don't take things with a bit of humour (just a bit, I'm earnest about you voting him) I'm gonna start cursing at everyone that talks to me... Always remember... You've chosen who to bandwaggon... BM and I were just voting each other.

Oh my good God!

Did you actually just analyse someone other than me? lmao

I'm stunned.

BM

[Battle Mage]

My opinion of the post is that his frustration laced wording of how he was tired of making excuses for you carries a heavy implication that the vote is one of bussing.

So I was curious about what you thought about the fact that Battle Mage seems to be implicating you with his own scummy behavior.

Maybe i missed this, but, how has my behaviour been scummy? :S

BM

[Battle Mage]

sigh... I'm not gonna be going back on forth all day long...

anyway... do you want me to comment on your answer?

I don't think he was making excuses about me... I think that he is just trying to convince others that I'm scummy while still pretending that I'm a newb or an idiot so that, if he lynches me, when I flip town he can say... ohh... but he looked scummy...

He is very arrogant... calling me schoolboy, hypocrite, etc, etc... and then trying to be the victim when I call out his bs (my new 2 favourite letters). You may even notice that I've never been as agressive (and maybe disrespectful) as I was in this game. But some people's refusal to cooperate or desire to be disrespectful and condescending really bothered me.

Lmao. I've said this time and time again. But perhaps when i've flipped town, you'll take it seriously:

In future, you need to stop being so tunnel-visioned. Even if you're scum here, it isnt good play. Any half-decent town would see consistency that defies logic as a scumtell. If you're town, you should bear in mind that you've wasted the entirety of the game, chasing me, and still, we havent hit 1 scumbag.

I'd also like to say, that if you are town, please take note of the fact that, i gave you every chance in the world. I've done my absolute best to steer you on the right course. After the game, you can send me a PM thanking me. Sad thing is, you forced us into this situation. And it will presumably result in a town loss.

I do hope you learn from this experience. But my comment earlier stands. If you are in a game, i will not join it. Likewise, i will ask that you don't join games that i am already in.

Ofc, this all assumes you are town. If you are scum, then i guess your play, and even your utter horridness towards us, is excusable, as you are in character as a scumbag. So, if you flip scum, i guess we can be cool.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Actually, I think I'd rather see what you flip, cause DDD insisted that your gloating wasn't a scumtell.

as i intentionally havent weighed in on this yet, i will point out. DDD is right, and you are wrong. Alex's gloating is not a scumtell.

BM

[Battle Mage]

What information would we get from an alex lynch? How would this progress the game?

when Alex is dead, there is no prospect of a BM-mislynch.
when Alex is dead, BM can go back to scumhunting properly, and not just feel like posting in the thread is completely futile.

If Alex is scum, we lynch Jammer.
If Alex is town, i honestly dont know where we go next. Do you have any ideas?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Anyway, what do you have to say about the fact that Battle Mage actually had the

gall

to say he thought you were town?

Hahaha...

BM

[Battle Mage]

That's not a gall... that's a tactic... Otherwise... how would he explain that he didn't keep pursuing me after each time he unvoted me and voted someone else?

Also, he is justifying my lynch as a policy lynch just in case I remain with him in lylo... Awesome way to lynch a townie and don't be responsible for it.

I also know that I might be wrong... but at this moment, I'm 90 % sure I'm not.

down to 90% now? How convenient.

I tried my hardest not to get to a situation like this, where it ended up being me vs you.

But we are where we are, and it is ENTIRELY your fault.

BM

[Battle Mage]

AGAIN: Zach, If GIEFF or somebody else votes BM... would you change your vote?
It would be:
BM (2) Alex, Someone else
vs
Alex (2) BM, Zach.

Someone can certainly feel free to vote Battle mage and find out.

Lol. I had you pegged as town at the start of today too. I'll stick with that read for now.

BM

[Battle Mage]

alexhans' scum. vs. town contributions:

[mrow]Game[col]Alignment[col]Posts / Day[col]1,000's of Chars / DayMini 714[col]Scum[col]0.6[col]0.5Open 129[col]Scum[col]2.1[col]1Mini 761[col]Town[col]2[col]1.3Mini 773[col]Town[col]1.2[col]1.2Newbie 744[col]Town[col]0.8[col]0.5Mafia 91[col]Town[col]4.5[col]2This game[col]?[col]3.9[col]3.9

Scum average

[col][col]1.4[col]0.8

Town average

[col][col]2.1[col]1.3

Alex's flurry of activity in this game is largely based on being attacked so much, but I would still call this a mild towntell.

i really think you over-estimate the value of such analysis. Unless players take part in more than 10 games at a time, you will not get a large enough sample that is sufficiently relevant to be used.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Vote Count:

blackcatcontract (3): Kmd4390, jammer, GIEFF
Battle Mage (2): alexhans, Zachrulez
alexhans (1): Battle Mage
SensFan (1): Benmage
Debonair Danny DiPietro (1): SpyreX

Not Voting: SensFan, Debonair Danny DiPietro, blackcatcontract

6 to lynch

Unvote, Vote: Jammer

Damnit, i'm gonna go down voting for someone i think is scum. xD

BM

[Battle Mage]

Mildly scummy.

Then I guess it's going to be an uphill battle to convince you that Alex is the lynch of the day.

I thought you found BM and alex equally scummy? Why do you plan on battling to convince me to lynch alex?

For reference, this appears to be the start of Gieff manipulating Zach onto my wagon. Odd, considering Gieff himself claims to prefer a BCC lynch.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I wanted camn to die more on day 1, and probably Battle Mage, too, but of two realistic lynches (alex and BM), I preferred alex.

Contradictory sentence.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Damnit, i'm gonna go down voting for someone i think is scum. xD

You have two votes.

eh?

[Battle Mage]

@Battle Mage:

I'm trying to get into your head here:

1. You think alex is town.
   
   

2. I'm not much more confident with Alex, but at least with him dead, we might be able to make some progress with the game. Plus, his death will give us plenty of information i should think.

   You want to lynch alex for information and to help progress the game.
   
   

3. If Alex is town, i honestly dont know where we go next. Do you have any ideas?

   If alex is town, lynching alex provides no information.

I don't get it.

Nah, my push on Alex was retarded. It was 95% personal and 5% scumtells. I'm feeling a Jammer/Gieff lynch at this point.

Also, why are you going all "woe is me" on us? You aren't even the biggest wagon.

The way today has gone, i'm not filled with confidence. You, Alex and Zach are the 3 loudest people here atm, and all 3 of you want me dead today. Whether you admit it or not.

And tbh, i cant scumhunt properly when im so angry at Alex. So lynching me today isnt all bad.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Looking at the votecounts... BM presents an interesting case...

He waggoned Mastin but ended up saying he was obvtown.

Yup.

He waggoned GIEFF but when facing pressure suddenly expressed GIEFF Was town.

Lie. If i recall correctly, i was the 2nd person to declare Gieff town, and when i did so, i was under no pressure whatsoever.

Now, after trying to get people to vote me and voting me himself, he expresses he thinks I'm town (while he is still voting for me). He voted me on D1, then unvoted to vote GIEFF. When GIEFF pushed my lynch. BM hopped on. Later, he voted jammer saying it was jammer+alexhans.

Yeh, i do like that.

Also, loking at the votecounts... I've found some other issues that raised my attention (I'll look into them later, consider them a tocheck list but you can definetly answer/quote if you feel like):
1) Why did GIEFF went back to Mastin? (just because he couldn't get others to lynch me or Camn?)
2) Battle Mage voted Camn (twice)? Why, exactly? (was one following GIEFF or Benmage? What about the 2nd one?
3) Battle Mage suddenly voted for jammer, presumably to find the jammer+Alex scumteam. What happened to this?

2. Camn gave me bad vibes at various times i guess.

3. I'm back in the game, baby!

If I am reading your thought process correctly, you suspect BM and alex are scumbuddies?

You are correct.

LOL.... That would be one hell of a bus.

I'll leave the rest of the comments for BM...
--------------------------
Zach is really voting me because I gloated... riiiiight.

What do you expect me to say? This reeks of Townie vs Townie. I honestly think that if you're scum, your choice of approach has been poor. Attacking me so brazenly, you cant escape attention for very long.

BM

[Battle Mage]

*shrug*

Unvote, Vote: DDD

If

i'm gonna lose this game

, i'm at least gonna lose it to somebody who was TRYING to play.

BM

Charter once told me on AIM that it's usually scum who post first person PoV statements about winning or losing the game. I'm not sure I like the tell, but it was accurate in a few games he referenced. Hmm.

One suspects that Charter might be wrong.
He's not exactly the Paragon of Mafia Hunters.

BM

I didn't think much about this originally, but re-reading the paticular comment KMD points out here, I believe it falls under the category of gloating.

Lol!

BM

[Battle Mage]

I wanted camn to die more on day 1, and probably Battle Mage, too, but of two realistic lynches (alex and

BM

Mastin

), I preferred alex.

Contradictory sentence.

BM

Oops - fixed the quote.


I don't think it was 95% personal, BM. You've been calling alex scummy the entire game. And that doesn't explain your claim that we would get a lot of information from his flip.

He's a newb. What do you expect? I stand by my gut. He's town.

Damnit, i'm gonna go down voting for someone i think is scum. xD

You have two votes.

eh?

Only two people are voting for you, and you're talking about "going down," as if your lynch today is inevitable. It does not strike me as a genuine reaction.

Lol, my chips are in, baby. I'll be lynched today-no sweat.

What strikes me as being not genuine, is you voting for BCC, when you CLEARLY want to vote for me.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I think you would make a great lynch, BM.

Are you trying to derail bcc's wagon?

I still dont recall anyone really explaining why they suspect me. I cant take anything Alex says seriously, Zach has been very vague on this matter, and you had a good case against me on Day 1, but completely abandoned it. I dont know why you are returning to it now, when since then, i have been the definition of awesome towniness.

Im not sure on the BCC wagon. But then, im not sure on anything. Apparently, not knowing who is scum, is a scumtell these days, eh?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Yesterday, I voted bcc and you told me to vote you.

Today, I am voting bcc, and you AGAIN try to prod me into voting for you.



I don't think that is a coincidence. Especially when coupled with your magical meta-read of bcc that you can't tell any of us about, and your steering of yesterday's lynch onto Cephrir.

Who said it was coincidence? I hope you're aware that i cant be scum with EVERYONE.

BM

[Battle Mage]

So you would rather lynch yourself than bcc?

Putting attention onto yourself is a rather extreme method of stopping another's lynch, and you've done so TWICE now to bcc.


As I said, I like my bcc vote.

Haha no. That's pretty stupid. Today, i am calling you out on the way you are pushing my wagon from afar. Yesterday, i dunno. Yesterday, i was more convinced that BCC was town, because your attack on him was so contrived. Now im not so convinced. That does not make BCC a good lynch.

I like Gieff, or Jammer, today.

BM

[Battle Mage]

You said i'd make a great lynch. And it's directly because of you that Zach has voted for me.

Unvote, Vote: Gieff

I'm bored of playing these games now. Sleep time for me.

All that said, im intrigued to see what a BCC lynch would do to the game...

Will think it over.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Yesterday, i was

more

convinced that BCC was town,

because your attack on him was so contrived.

Now im not so convinced. That does not make BCC a good lynch.

Wait, I thought you were convinced BCC was town because of your magical meta read you can't share with us?

Having trouble keeping your story straight?

Italics mine. Having trouble reading?

You already know my main reason for thinking BCC to be town. It's completely reasonable. However i was convinced further by the fact you were defending Cephrir so shoddily, in an attempt to push a wagon on him. Cephrir coming up town, and having the night to think about it, has made me ease off a bit.

Also, a note for you for the future as well. An issue you seem to have in this game is that you will pounce on anything that moves. You've adopted an aggressive style of posting which basically amounts to constant interrogation. It means that you will always get distorted reads because you are always trying to make something scummy, as opposed to looking objectively.

Heck, maybe you're looking objectively really, but just pretending to be ridiculously aggressive. Only you know that. But thought i should offer my 2 cents.

BM

*Also, using the word "magical" is a scumtell.

[Battle Mage]

Yes, good strategy. I find a massive scumslip/inconsistency, so the best plan is just to vote me and leave the thread for a few hours. I'm sure that will work.

"massive scumslip"?

Good God man! Get a grip!

My post above is clearly much-needed.

BM

[Battle Mage]

seems like Gieff has scarpered. Well, i'm not waiting up all night. -.-

BM

[Battle Mage]

You already know my main reason for thinking BCC to be town. It's completely reasonable.

No. It isn't reasonable in the slightest.


When you were scrambling for reasons to find bcc town yesterday, why didn't you bring this up? The ONLY thing you could find was your

magical

meta read. When asked for further reasons, you said "I'm not answering any more questions on my position", "if you believe im scum, your vote should be on me," and "maybe he intends to come back but cant get into the reread." Not a single thing about my attack on bcc (which wasn't even really an attack) being contrived.

And in what way was my attack on bcc contrived?

Your attack on BCC was contrived, because when you looked at both him and Cephrir, the information you found suggested Cephrir as a better lynch. Yet, somehow, you continued to push BCC, in face of your own analysis.

The "if you believe i'm scum, your vote should be on me" seems more like me saying that you should just trust me, rather than sticking my neck on the line for BCC.

BM

[Battle Mage]

One suspects that Charter might be wrong.
He's not exactly the Paragon of Mafia Hunters.

BM

He always seems to catch me.

Lol, you should work on that. In my experience, his reads are pretty shoddy.

because i've felt he was town for ages.

Really? Where have you stated this feeling? As far as what I recall in your 200+ post contribution in the game, you've been spending most of your time calling him scum.

^This. Pretty sure you haven't told us so if you've actually had a town read on Alex, BM.

I think ive said it, or hinted at it, a hundred times. It doesnt matter. You know it now.

I feel less sure he is scum now than I did then, in part because of the coaching meta applying when he is town. And in part because camn-town wrecked my alex-camn theory.

Don't ever back off of a player you see as scummy just because a connection isn't there after one flips. I once suspected a BlakAdder/Elvis_Knits connection in Family Guy. They weren't scumbuddies, but Blak was scum and EK was SK. EK actually went on to win, but let's not get into the bad memories too much.

Point is, just because a connection is false doesn't mean a scummy player is town.

Perhaps Gieff is making an excuse, rather than a reason, to back off his Alex-Hate.

If I am reading your thought process correctly, you suspect BM and alex are scumbuddies?

^I can see this.

*checks role pm*

I can't.

Vote Count:

blackcatcontract (3): Kmd4390, jammer, GIEFF
Battle Mage (2): alexhans, Zachrulez
alexhans (1): Battle Mage
SensFan (1): Benmage
Debonair Danny DiPietro (1): SpyreX

Not Voting: SensFan, Debonair Danny DiPietro, blackcatcontract

6 to lynch

Unvote, Vote: Jammer

Damnit, i'm gonna go down voting for someone i think is scum. xD

BM

2 votes is "going down"? Hmm.

You wait and see.

BM

[Battle Mage]

BM... You're not the only I've analized... I've read Zach and SpyreX over the night too. It's just that your behaviour have switched too much... You've been inconsistent and wishy washy and have constantly appealed to emotion.

Zach and SpyreX are likely town, so that really doesnt help much. I agree with you though. I've been inconsistent from the start. The thing you have to learn is-that's not a scumtell! lol
Appeal to emotion is a 'BM is emotional' tell. I hate it when people don't do as i say.

Why do you feel the need to meta threaten me every time?

Explain?

I've thought this over REAL good man... I didn't come to a hasty conclusion. Yet, every time you appeal to emotion you succeed on making me doubt. So I realize that you're really dangerous and could fool someone easyly.

Lol, you're appealing to emotion too. Coming over as all apologetic.

This is a mountainous game, and i dont see any logic that says im scum (with the exception of me completely losing track of the game on Day 1. That was utterly retarded.)

What else can i do? I've gotta hope that, if you're town, you think this through and change your mind. And how do i do that? Appeal to emotion, all the way. *wry smile*

Why do you think that you're gonna be lynched already? There's only 2 votes today and I don't see a reason why this should be a short day.

I didnt see a reason the other 2 days should have been short either. Who are you hoping to lynch tomorrow?

I can even propose you a deal... We lynch someone today with your seal of approval. If he is town, we lynch you tomorrow, no matter what.

Wow. That's actually a damn good deal. And it makes sense too. Coz if i was scum, id have to bus to stay alive. Why has nobody else used this in other games? I'm impressed. haha

I will have to consider well how to use this AWESOME power. xD

BM

[Battle Mage]

EBWOP: on hindsight, forget about my lynching proposition with a seal of approval.... It's stupid if you're trying to lynch both my town reads...

Haha, then rescind my "impressedness".

It's actually a pretty slick idea. If i'm scum, i either throw a buddy under the bus, or i get lynched tomorrow. So you guarantee postponing of LyLo.
Even if you dont carry through on the deal, you can see who i suggest, and then if i come up scum, theres a good shot they might be my buddy.
If i'm town, you give me a last chance to prove my worth as a scumhunter.

C'est la vie.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I am NOT pushing your wagon, Battle Mage. I think you're scummy. But I'd prefer to see a bcc lynch.

Why bcc?

@Yaw

whats the deal with bcc?

Does he have some type of special post restriction...do we have to say his full name? blackcatcontract? must I ask him a question? blackcatcontract what do you think of playing the game you signed up for?

Sigh

Jammer wake up!

why arent you trying to derail my inevitable lynch? xD

BM

[Battle Mage]

OK, I'll do it when I get a chance. BM is right though, it won't be a very strong tell either way.

Your attack on BCC was contrived, because when you looked at both him and Cephrir, the information you found suggested Cephrir as a better lynch. Yet, somehow, you continued to push BCC, in face of your own analysis.

For the last time, my information did

not

show Cephrir as a better lynch. My information showed Cephrir lurks like crazy as both town and scum, but to an even GREATER extent as town.

You should check your info again. Or, even better, find my response to it, where i actually took the time to trawl through the games you suggested.
Did you check Freelancer out in the end, btw?

Instead of appealing to emotion, BM, why don't you try telling us what your meta read was? Or at least why you can't tell us about it? bcc is in no ongoing games.

Can you give me a week?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Lol, you should work on that. In my experience, his reads are pretty shoddy.

You haven't seen Newbie 744. Raivann and I had the entire town eating out of the palms of our hands til Charter replaced in. Right, Alex?

why arent you trying to derail my inevitable lynch? xD

BM

This makes no sense. You are calling your lynch inevitible at just 2 votes.

It's a conspiracy. You wait and see.

Ben, wanna put ur money where ur mouth is on 1770?

Spyrex, wanna explain 1771?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Lol, you should work on that. In my experience, his reads are pretty shoddy.

You haven't seen Newbie 744. Raivann and I had the entire town eating out of the palms of our hands til Charter replaced in. Right, Alex?

Actually... i had never gotten into that game after my re-read. In wich I found you and Raiv... Of course, the replacements helped a great deal.

BM... you can have more than a week... i'd like this day to be clear and long with as less fluff as possible. I'd REALLY like to hear from bcc.

Who's conspiring?

The Mafia, i guess.
If i knew who that consisted of, i suspect the game would be a whole lot easier. SF will vote for me in his next post.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Am i the only one feeling a SpyreX/Gieff scumpair?

The way Gieff has tried to interrogate everyone who says Spyrex is town, seems really contrived. That one was inspired.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Only if you're at L-1, BM.

hmm, maybe ur right.

[Battle Mage]

Forgot to post in my games that I'm V/LA. I somehow managed to get some time online, but long story short, the next time I can sleep is Sunday, so don't expect me online much, if at all.

Unvote Black

. He is being replaced, so I highly doubt he is strategically lurking.

Vote Battle Mage

because conspiracies are fun. Actually, my VC analysis had him as scum and his reaction to 2 votes is just terrible.

My reaction to 2 votes wasnt terrible, it was completely reasonable, because i have a pretty good sense of how this game works now. Rather than blaming me, why not take responsibility for your own vote?

BCC is being replaced?

Tomorrow, take Gieff out.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Why take Gieff out tomorrow anyway?

Because his lynch should resolve alot. He's probs my top suspect, looking back at his interaction with Spyrex, and combined with his current survival, and general smokeblowing nature.

BM

[Battle Mage]

BM, I took responsibility by reacting to what I feel was scummy on your part.

Thats fine, as long as you dont pass the buck onto me, when i get lynched. That really bugs me, when i dont feel anyone really cares about whether or not there is a reason for me to be lynched. It's just convenient.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I am the one flying the helicopter.



Hey Battle Mage, what do you think about using words like "honestly" and "genuine" when describing your own thought process? Do you think it's scummy?

It depends on the circumstances. It's really an appeal to emotion, which is generally seen as scummy. Meta can really come into play in assessing these as tells. Why?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Hey Battle Mage, what do you think about using words like "honestly" and "genuine" when describing your own thought process? Do you think it's scummy?

I think my interaction with spyrex will be clearer once jammer answers my question.

If you die, and come up scum, Spyrex should be lynched next. End of story. Spyrex being town, does not clear you, however.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Appeal to emotion ("that really bugs me") isn't helping your case any.

True. But as i said, anyone who actually cares about finding out my alignment, can meta me, and see if Appeal to Emotion is a scumtell for me.

BM

[Battle Mage]

This reminds me of something that i do in real life. I'm a bit of a joker, so sometimes people dont take me seriously (randomlunatic can vouch for this) and if i especially want to be believed, i often precede the lie with something like "honestly", or stick the word "genuinely" in somewhere to try and make it sound more believable. This is the kinda thing Elmo does here in italics. I'm not saying he's lying-he might GENUINELY HONESTLY be ill. But the fact he tries to make it persuasive, indicates that he is worried we wont believe him. And the only grounds on which we wouldnt believe him, is if he is mafia.

I agree with this, and have used it in past games. People saying "honestly" and "to be honest" a lot are often scum.


But I looked through three of your scum games, and you don't use the word "honest" at ALL. Weird, huh?

Haha, Elmo turned out to be scum in that game too.
I should've stuck with my convictions.

As i said, the tell varies from player to player. It's clearly a persuasive tool, but that doesnt mean you are necessarily scum. Psychologically, i think it simply means that you

don't expect to be believed

. Which is perhaps why it is more common with scum than town.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I've never played with you and I don't read games I'm not in, especially during V/LA.

You dont have to read a game. You just need to do what Gieff has done. But using a different sample of games, to make it worthwhile.

That is, if you care about my alignment.

BM

[Battle Mage]

you're here now, son. Hop to it!

[Battle Mage]

i'll also point out, it seems your vote is entirely based on my prediction that i will die today. Kinda ironic, but hey-ho. Whilst i've heard, and probably cited, "giving-up scumtell" before, again, it doesnt really apply to me, as im sure previous games will show. You have no case.

BM

[Battle Mage]

"Yes, this behavior is scummy, but I haven't done it as scum before" is a very bad defense, Battle Mage.



But I agree that KMD's vote makes little sense. What is your "VC analysis" kmd?

Again, its not my defence, it's yours. You have meta'd me well enough to say that it is not scummy for me. If the defence is bad, thats your fault, not mine. As it happens, the defence is pretty darn good. So, congrats to you.

BM

[Battle Mage]

i'll also point out, it seems your vote is entirely based on my prediction that i will die today. Kinda ironic, but hey-ho. Whilst i've heard, and probably cited, "giving-up scumtell" before, again, it doesnt really apply to me, as im sure previous games will show. You have no case.

BM

I was referring to your "giving-up" scumtell defense.


All I said was that you don't use the word "honestly" in games where you are scum - that's not a defense at all, and you know it.

You've looked at this game too right? It is a defence. And, drop the attitude.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Spyrex and BM:

You both find me very scummy.
Yet you both think that if I AM town, I will be (or should have already been) night-killed.


But why? If I'm so scummy, doesn't it makes sense for scum to try to leave me alive as a potential mislynch?

But, you see, nobody really saw you as lynchable until today. Your argument will only kick in from tonight onwards, and ours is valid NOW.

And wouldn't scum also try to

keep

my mislynch viable by, just as an example, saying that I should have been nightkilled if I were town?

Nice as that is, i pointed out when we first discussed this, the only person who actually voiced this view, was me. And i'm town. So, go figure.

BM

[Battle Mage]

BM, I am tired of you telling me what I mean.

I was not defending you, I was gauging your reaction. And I didn't mention the "giving up scumtell" defense, which is what was actually being referred to.

My meta did not suggest Cephrir was scum.

The thing is, what you try to say, and what actually comes across, can be completely different things. Whether you like it or not, your meta DID suggest Cephrir was scum. It's not just my opinion-everyone who commented on that, agreed with me, if i recall. And you can't say thats happened alot this game.
Likewise, your assessment of the use of words like "honestly" and "genuine", indicates i am town, because you said i dont use them as scum, and i have used them quite a bit here. Whether it's intentional or not, you've come up with a defence for my appeal to emotion being allegedly scummy.

Ftr, you defending me at this point, with such good research, read as a towntell. And i was considering unvoting. But, as it was apparently unintentional, my vote can stand.

And how is your argument valid? Why would scum kill a townie who looks so scummy?

Your scumminess has only really come to the fore of discussion today.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I apologize for the length of this post - I have been trying to be succinct, but this point is complicated, and this was the best I could do. Please read it.

-------

Likewise, your assessment of the use of words like "honestly" and "genuine", indicates i am town, because you said i dont use them as scum, and i have used them quite a bit here.

The point is that you hardly ever use the word "honestly" as town, either, and so meta arguments hold no water either way. And so a defense based on this concept is not a valid one.

Lol, you have meta grounds to back this assertion up, i assume? If so, why havent you mentioned them?

You used similarly flawed logic in the Cephrir lynch, Battle Mage, by just looking at one alignment possibility:

You've already seen that Cephrir does not play like this as town. There shouldnt even be an issue here.

But the point that I kept bringing up, and that you kept ignoring, was that HE DIDN'T PLAY THAT WAY AS SCUM EITHER,

pro-town cult notwithstanding

.

notwithstanding? Given the win condition of the protown cult in that game, it was more incentivised by the anti-town than by the pro-town.
As i think we've made quite clear, Cephrir was effectively scum in that game, and played in the same manner as he has here. My meta turned out to be flawed, but thats only with the benefit of hindsight. I won't apologise for lynching someone who was playing how i had seen them play as

scum

.

For example, I've never done in-depth activity analyses before, as I have in this game.

1. GIEFF has never done this before as scum, so he's more likely to be town.
2. GIEFF has never done this before as town, so he's more likely to be scum.
3. GIEFF hasn't done it as EITHER alignment, so meta arguments should be ignored - the behavior itself is more important

Obviously, #3 is the only correct statement.


Do you see my point, BM? Why the logic in #1 and #2 logic is faulty, and how easy it is for scum to just cherry pick one argument and ignore the other?

This entire quote is a false dilemma. I don't really know what you expect me to say, other than:

*facepalm*

Your scumminess has only really come to the fore of discussion today.

Demonstrably false. Ask Benmage, Zach, Spyrex, Sens, jammer, or KMD. You will need to find a different excuse for wondering (or pretending to wonder) why scum didn't NK me - this one won't fly. I have been the #2 or #3 lynch-target for most of this game.

Ooi, whats the largest wagon you've had on you at any point during the game? I'll look at those quotes in a sec.

Whether you like it or not, your meta DID suggest Cephrir was scum. It's not just my opinion-everyone who commented on that, agreed with me, if i recall.

Demonstrably false. Ask Zach. I didn't see anybody else referencing my meta, which clearly showed Cephrir was LESS active as town, but NEVER this inactive, as either scum or town.

Haha smooth. Pick on the ONE guy who actually agreed with you. I will once again say, Zach had a genuine reason to think Cephrir was town. You, did not. If i recall, there were other people who weighed in and agreed with me.

Another question, BM: were you already aware you used the word "honestly" a lot in this game, or did you iso-read yourself to check?

When you said that i had never used it as scum, i took the logical step of seeing if i had used it here. I suspected i probably had done, given the emotiveness of the game.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Your scumminess has only really come to the fore of discussion today.

Demonstrably false. Ask Benmage,

Benmage did not vote for you. He was firmly on the Mastin wagon, and was merely trying to gauge opinion.

Zach,

Zach is the 3rd vote here, but he only voted for you because you in outrage at your opposition to the Mastin lynch. It does not strike me as a particularly serious vote.

Spyrex,

SpyreX was the only vote on you at this time.

Sens,

This is fair. Sensfan apparently considered you to be a genuine suspect on Day 1.

jammer,

Jammer does not vote for you here. You arent even his top suspect. He was voting somebody he didnt even want to lynch.

or KMD.

KMD was one of two people voting for you at this point.

You will need to find a different

excuse

for wondering (

or pretending to wonder

) why scum didn't NK me - this one won't fly. I have been the #2 or #3 lynch-target for most of this game.

BS. Italics marks appeal to emotion. Just in case anyone was seriously considering claiming i was scummy for it.

BM

[Battle Mage]

BM, what is the point of your last post? My point is that the majority of the game finds me scummy, so I am a good mislynch. How big my wagon was is not relevant. I am the #2 or #3 person on most people's lynch-lists. There is no need for these long pages of individual quotes - it looks like you are just throwing them out to muddle my point, which is a very simple one.

1. You were not the 2nd or 3rd person on the majority of people's lynch lists.
2. The majority of the players here did not find you scummy enough to lynch.
3. I'm surprised you didnt read my comments-instead opting to play them down.

The entirety of this is irrelevant however. The issue here is simple. Whether people found you scummy or not, NOBODY had compiled anything like a sufficient case on you to see you lynched. I know this game hasnt exactly been full of well-reasoned quality play, but given how much of a playa you have been, it would take some sort of case to take you down. No such case had been made, nor was in the pipeline-only odd tidbits of scumtells which nobody really cared to elaborate on.

Also, you flipped out about 2 votes on you, and I think that's probably the largest YOUR wagon has ever been - why do you think 2 votes on you is so likely to lead to a lynch but 2 or 3 votes on me multiple times from multiple people is not?

Nobody, with the exception of SpyreX and possibly Benmage, is defending me. If you include people who've expressed willingness to lynch me, as you have done, i expect i have a majority already. I'm always paranoid about this kind of thing, because regardless of my experience, i'm a damn easy lynch. People misinterpret me all the time, and i apparently give a scummy vibe to those who dont know me. Because alot of the players here are new to me, i expect that hasnt helped.

I'm still not entirely clear what the case on me is. So if you could concisely outline it soon, that'd be good.

The point is that you hardly ever use the word "honestly" as town, either, and so meta arguments hold no water either way. And so a defense based on this concept is not a valid one.

Lol, you have meta grounds to back this assertion up, i assume? If so, why havent you mentioned them?

I looked at three scum games and three town games. You use the word (to describe your own thought process) maybe once or twice at most in all 6 of them, but you probably used it 15-20 times in this game. I just wanted to see if:

a) you were aware of using the word so much in this game, and if you would admit to being aware of it.
b) you would try to defend yourself

Ok, if you could list the games you looked at, that'd be helpful.

And you did not answer my question - were you already aware of having used the word so much here, or did you iso-read yourself to check?

Actually i did. Because i don't think you really believe that i remember all my posts by heart, given at one point in the game, i couldnt distinguish between 1 player and another. xD

For example, I've never done in-depth activity analyses before, as I have in this game.

1. GIEFF has never done this before as scum, so he's more likely to be town.
2. GIEFF has never done this before as town, so he's more likely to be scum.
3. GIEFF hasn't done it as EITHER alignment, so meta arguments should be ignored - the behavior itself is more important


Obviously, #3 is the only correct statement.


Do you see my point, BM? Why the logic in #1 and #2 logic is faulty, and how easy it is for scum to just cherry pick one argument and ignore the other?

This entire quote is a false dilemma. I don't really know what you expect me to say, other than:

*facepalm*

The post is meant to demonstrate faulty logic (although not a false dilemma), in #1 and #2. But I assume this means that you do see why #1 and #2 are faulty? And you do see how you used the faulty logic in #2 to lynch Cephrir?

When judging whether or not an action better fits a player's town meta or his scum meta, you need to look at BOTH alignments. The post above is meant to demonstrate how faulty your logic can be

if you don't do this

(in points 1 and 2).

I did do this. I note you havent bothered to quote my explanation. I wonder why...

I honestly (ha, ironic) dont know who you're trying to kid at this point. My vote stands, because your entire line of questionning and alleged case indicates you think i am scum, but you havent deigned to vote for me. You cant use the excuse of trying to ascertain more information about my affiliation, when you've clearly already made your mind up, and aren't really listening to what i'm saying anyway.

Please confirm if you understand the point I am trying to make here.

Also, pro-town cult is not scum. True, they are both more worried about survival, but cults are completely different in that they can grow. And scum was still alive when Cephrir was in the game, so he would still have motivation to scum-hunt - this is NOT the case for scum.

There was 1 scum left. And Cephrir clearly showed no interest in scumhunting. He was happy to be around, and just survive.

And, as I've said, Cephrir was lurking equally in EVERY game - when he mega-lurked in Freelancer, he was active in other parts of the site.

Which proves his lurking was scummy. Again.

BM

[Battle Mage]

1. You were not the 2nd or 3rd person on the majority of people's lynch lists.
2. The majority of the players here did not find you scummy enough to lynch.

So you think that you're in a worst position than GIEFF has ever been? That is now?

By far.

I'm always paranoid about this kind of thing, because regardless of my experience, i'm a damn easy lynch.

People misinterpret me all the time, and i apparently give a scummy vibe to those who dont know me. Because alot of the players here are new to me, i expect that hasnt helped

I remember reading a user's wiki page that said never to trust you.

How insightful... /sarcasm

Tell me, will you trust me when i flip?

BM, do you think GIEFF is scum? I'd like you to do this about him:

I'm still not entirely clear what the case on me is. So if you could concisely outline it soon, that'd be good.

I'm not really a "case" guy. I generally just call things as i see them. Everyone else can judge for themselves if they agree or disagree at the time. But, i'll give it a try i guess. We got plenty of time anyway.

BM

[Battle Mage]

TITLE OF THE POST: Why did BM choose to lynch Cephir over BCC?

.

Based on real facts

Author: Alexhans

Your blatant ignorance of a BCC lynch because you had no info whatsoever will always be fishy to me. Let's have a look, shall we?:

I checked since since you first voted Cephir (you hadn't mentioned BCC as town so far...

Also, both Cephrir and blackcatcontract confirmed during the night that they're still in this game.

This strikes me as massively scummy.

Vote: Cephrir

I think a wagon here might actually achieve something.

BM

Why Cephrir and not BCC?

Actually, i typed out a BCC vote, and somewhere in the back of my mind, i recalled a reason i felt he might be town. Will look into it later i guess. But we gotta start somewhere.

BM

I would appreciate you finding that reason for me, as I prefer voting for BCC if we must do a lurker wagon.

I think you do make a good point though about the need to pressure the lurkers to actually participate.

Ok, will do. In the meantime, wanna fill me in on YOUR reasoning?

BM

Avoids the question and gives it to Zach. Never looked into the "BCC=town" matter.

Zach-why not Cephrir?
Keeps trying to make others give reasons instead of giving them himself.
BM

BM was asked and never answered why he prefered Cephir over BCC.

But seriously, I think we should bandwagon one of them. I would prefer blackcatcontract, as that "character" has had TWO posters lurk with it. And because Cephrir lurks a lot as town.

See, this is something we can both agree on. It must certainly be a good idea then.

*facepalm*

I DID look into why i felt BCC was likely to be town, and it stands, but isnt a meta i can reference. The same was true with Mastin, and you ignored me there. Maybe you can give me the benefit of the doubt this time?

My Cephrir vote stands. Gieff - If you wanna cite some games where he lurked as vanilla town, go for it.

BM

Same thing. Doesn't explain why BCC is town and asks GIEFF for proof.

Yeah...

I thought he was scum.

You made a pretty big thing of an argument that he was town. That's another thing that bothers me about you.

I'm not gonna lie, I'll probably be on you for as long as I am alive in this game, unless something happens at a critical moment in the game that convinces me that you are town.

is that because you've committed yourself so much that you can't be seen to backtrack now?

I'm not wagonning BCC until we've exhausted the Cephrir avenue. How's that for direction?

BM

exhausted the Cephir av???

Of course i wouldnt have hammered Mastin. Firstly, i was in favour of a far longer day. Secondly, it was SO fricking obvious that Mastin was town. His lurking was not scummy. Just because i couldnt reference the meta, doesnt mean i was wrong.

More on the mastin is town sudden BM change... He was voting me and pushing my lynch in the end of day 1... if you recall... On day 2 he was voting Zach... after having pushed so hard for a Cephir lynch...

And the fact that he says that not being able to reference meta doesn't make you wrong is weird seeing how muc he asks others to do so...

*major facepalm*

Reading this page alone, i feel i should say something along the lines of:

You guys suck!

Though that's directed solely at Alex, Jammer and Gieff (although less so the latter). BCC is an inferior wagon to Cephrir. But as nobody is going to trust me AGAIN, i'm best off pursuing a new route.

Unvote

BM

No comments.

Buddy, it's like this. If you don't trust my judgement on BCC, you're better off lynching me, right now. I'm not happy with you continually blowing smoke in my direction, but being too damn wimpy to actually substantiate it.

Regarding your question above, yes, i was not intending to pursue BCC as a secondary candidate after Cephrir, because i feel BCC is probs town.

I don't see why my "selectiveness" is any worse than yours. But, as i say, you can either vote for Cephrir, vote for me, or apologise for casting doubt on my allegiances.

Why? WHY? Why is BCC town?

btw, Reading how you tell me I suck and other things I can't see how you can ask me to be respectful a couple of posts later with a straight face.
-----------------------------------------
I

REALLY

encourage people to read BM in ISO and you will see how NOTHING fits, nothing stays the same... attitudes and suspicions switch conveniently.

My week isn't up.

BM

[Battle Mage]

1895: Was it necessary to quote the whole post to add one sentence? Isn't that typical of people who want to look like they post without actually saying anything?

Was the second question really necessary? Are you seriously able to keep a straight face when you tell me that you are looking at me without any kind of bias?

Tell me, will you trust me when i flip?

Only if you flip town.

I agree... We've got time...

Lol, update - i will not need a week. Should be able to clarify my stance on BCC within a few hours.

Also, Vi defending me is amusing.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Dude... every time I read you to try to understand your motives it looks WORST for you. I become even more convinced. The only thing that made me doubt was your avalanche of AtE wich I've learned is healthy to ignore.

healthy or not, i suspect you WILL live to regret ignoring it. That said, i hope you will learn alot from this game, and it might change your perspective on Mafia.

Also, i'd like to direct your attention to my game - Mean Mod LoveFest, in the Theme Park. Where Kairyuu has just flipped scum.

THAT is why i couldnt cite the meta until now. And THAT is why i felt that Kairyuu, and hence, BCC, were very unlikely to be scum.

The game will be over soon, so i can elaborate then if necessary.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Also, i'd like to direct your attention to my game - Mean Mod LoveFest, in the Theme Park. Where Kairyuu has just flipped scum.

THAT is why i couldnt cite the meta until now. And THAT is why i felt that Kairyuu, and hence, BCC, were very unlikely to be scum.

So you knew Kai remained active as scum in that game, and so figured that replacing out of this game was a towntell?

Exactly. It isnt foolproof logic, but as i acknowledged the day after the Cephrir lynch, i was feeling adamant in the face of your opposition that my read was right. Especially after the same thing happened with Mastin earlier. Not only was he active as scum in that game, he was active in what seemed like a virtually unwinnable scenario after Day 1. I dont see him getting replaced out of here as scum. He seems to relish a challenge, and speaking to him recently, he evidently has a preference for playing as scum, over town.

BM

[Battle Mage]

And your opposition was making me more adamant as well, especially because you couldn't give your bcc/Kai read, and because you kept misinterpreting my argument.

I understand your reasoning now, and can see how it would make sense from a townie's perspective. I still don't like the fact that you tried to defend yourself with your absence from the wagon, or that you kept trying to claim I was on your side of the meta-analysis, but the "magical meta" argument is laid to rest as far as I am concerned.


Sorry to repeat myself again BM, but while you're here: were you aware of your heavy usage of "honestly" already, or did you have to iso-read yourself to check?

right...

And you've asked me this twice already, and i've answered twice. I iso-read (well, skimmed lol) my posts.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Fair enough BM. Another question, though - were you already aware of your usage of the word? Or did you iso-read?


Sorry, can't believe I missed it twice. I was way drunk when I read your 303, and missed that part of it. I should go back and read that page again...

wtf?

*lurk lurk lurk*

BM

[Battle Mage]

will post here later.

BM

[Battle Mage]

@Battlemage, D1 you voted Alexhans, then changed towards others. You gave as reason back then, there is no support for a Alexhans lynch.
Most of the others you voted wheren't close to being lynched as well. Why not keep the vote on your main-suspect instead of changing votes towards (mainly) lesser suspects?

There's a difference between people not being close to a lynch, and clearly not going to be lynched at all. At the time, i was annoyed that Alexhans was being protected so avidly by people who he had invited into the game. It had the feel of a conspiracy about it. So i felt a change was in order.

BM

[Battle Mage]

@Battle Mage and the "quicklynch": Yes, Battle Mage was not voting Cephrir at the end of D2. No, he didn't have the chance to do so once the wagon started picking up speed.

This would be a really good time for Battle Mage to post one of his 25-post marathons.

I actually cba. This game needs 1 thing atm- a lynch. The discussion is now going nowhere, and with so many new people posting lots, it's pretty hard to get into. I'm concerned that the people defending me are scum, and the people attacking me are town, but i cant attack the people defending me, because then i get lynched. Equally, there's no point me continuing to attack the people attacking me, because i wouldn't expect anyone else to read the arguments anyway, and to be quite honest, i've got no idea who is scum. lol

Jammer still feels like an awesome lynch. Objectively speaking, i feel that if Gieff is scum, he probably deserves to win given the amount of work he has put in, but he just seems really scummy lately.
I'm not sold on anyone as town.

If people genuinely feel a case, i think the best thing to do, is to just post it concisely here, and then i'll read all the cases and vote accordingly. I may as well keep my vote on Gieff in the meantime.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Question: Are you the same Battle Mage who told us not to rush to lynch on page 40 of day 1?

Nope. This game has changed me.

[Battle Mage]

need i point out the glaring inconsistency of your reasoning vs your DREAM? lol

Im not worried about how soon we lynch someone. I just dont think the game will progress until we do. And i dont see any wagons that i particularly like the look of atm.
I dont think everyone attacking me is necessarily town. It's just a concern of mine.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Well, now that I think about the dream, I think Spyrex actually bussed you, Battle Mage, and you flipped scum. But then Spyrex night-killed himself, and we insta-lynched Zach or Alex. So it was actually Spyrex, Battle Mage, and I think Zach, although it could have been Alex.

In any case, I obviously need to post in this thread more than twice a day or else it will carry over into my dreams. That can't be healthy.



I think the game is progressing very well, and the discussion is very productive. No need to rush, especially with the recent lack of wall-posts.

I love the way you feel you can change whatever you say in order to try and make a point, and have no qualms about anyone picking you up on it.

BM

[Battle Mage]

yep, damn right. Scumbags will lie about ANYTHING these days, it seems.

I'll

Unvote

BM

[Battle Mage]

I still want to hear Kmd's justification for his Battle Mage vote though.

Did you see how he acted like he was pretty much lynched after just two votes? Very defeatist.

Hi. Were you following the game early on? If so, why are you presenting this as a new point, when i did the exact same thing on Day 1?

BM

[Battle Mage]

We need more of the dubious characters posting right about now.
By which I mean Battle Mage, Kmd, SpyreX, and jammer.
Some more Zach would be nice too (yes, I see your last post), because that vote post still bothers me.

Unfortunately Search is down right now.

since when did you consider me a dubious character?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Why are scum more likely to be defeatist than town?



And Spy, stop trying to chain-lynch me through others' alignments. You want to lynch me, come at me now. It's too easy for scum to control the game like that.

Gieff is clearly scum. The more i read his posts, the more i think that his attitude of asking questions to all and sundry isnt protown, its actually just a ruse. It works well for about 50 pages, but after that, people start to catch on that the questions mostly serve no real purpose, and are just a front. I like a Gieff lynch today. Continued gut feel.

BM

[Battle Mage]

And I'll vote/hammer him if he's going to be lynched.

I

seriously

don't see the issue here.

What do you think, Battle Mage?

lolwot? xD

BM

[Battle Mage]

I'm trying to limit the posting, but I figure that some content from me is better than no content from anybody?


-----

unvote

vote KMD

• KMD spent the majority of his effort on page 1 defending camn's scummy behavior, even though the points on which he caught camn-scum in a different game (outlined in Post 600) also applied to her behavior THIS game, as I pointed out in Post 602. Yet KMD never backed off his camn-defense, never stopped calling her obv-town.
  
  
• His Mastin vote was very weird, too. He excused it as soon as he made it by saying "either Mastin or camn is the lynch today" which wasn't the case at ALL.
  
  
• Even odder - two posts before his Mastin vote, he claimed he would rather lynch alex, me, or bcc instead of Mastin - Mastin was actually probably only 4 or 5 on his list. Yet, when given the opportunity to switch to alex, he did not. He NEVER unvoted Mastin until lynch went through, even though there were so many others he claimed to want to lynch.
  
  
• KMD tunneled in on me early on (jumping on as the 3rd vote), refusing to explain his reasoning until much, much later, when he could make something up. Today, he's jumped on the Battle Mage wagon (also as the 3rd vote), for ticky-tack reasons.

Was considering a KMD vote, until i read this ^.

Vote: DDD

Scummiest voter on the wagon.

BM

[Battle Mage]

haha, dont make my mistake!

[Battle Mage]

i was voting for him earlier, and nobody was interested. DDD seems lynchable, and he's more likely to be scum than Sens. Though, to be fair, DDD probably wouldnt rank in my top 3 suspects atm.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Battle Mage, you have waffled so often on my alignment that I am surprised that you are now SO sure I am scum that my case on KMD is enough for you to not want to vote him.

You've done the "read alignment through others" trick before, to explain your turn-around on Mastin based on alex's scumminess. I assume this is similar? I am so scummy that KMD has to be town?

No. Your case doesnt make me think KMD is scum. Once again, you have to make the distinction between what you TRY to say, and what actually comes across.

BM

[Battle Mage]

We need more of the dubious characters posting right about now.
By which I mean Battle Mage, Kmd, SpyreX, and jammer.
Some more Zach would be nice too (yes, I see your last post), because that vote post still bothers me.

Unfortunately Search is down right now.

since when did you consider me a dubious character?

BM

Vi, feel free to answer this.

BM

[Battle Mage]

We need more of the dubious characters posting right about now.
By which I mean Battle Mage, Kmd, SpyreX, and jammer.
Some more Zach would be nice too (yes, I see your last post), because that vote post still bothers me.

Unfortunately Search is down right now.

since when did you consider me a dubious character?

BM

Vi, feel free to answer this.

BM

aquí
And your posts since then have been entirely less than convincing. For instance:

i was voting for

[DDD]

earlier, and nobody was interested.

I see you voting for him in 1572, and unvoting him in favor of alexhans in 1575 -

three posts later

.
In addition, Zachrulez was already voting for DDD at the time.
In addition to that, SpyreX and Benmage voted for DDD afterward but before

it became cool

I did.
Penn and Teller do not approve of this rhetoric.

Lol, i read as far as the point where you incorrectly amended my quote. Is there any point me reading on if you've based your post on something i havent said?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Battle Mage, you have waffled so often on my alignment that I am surprised that you are now SO sure I am scum that my case on KMD is enough for you to not want to vote him.

You've done the "read alignment through others" trick before, to explain your turn-around on Mastin based on alex's scumminess. I assume this is similar? I am so scummy that KMD has to be town?

No. Your case doesnt make me think KMD is scum. Once again, you have to make the distinction between what you TRY to say, and what actually comes across.

BM

I was saying that my case made you NOT want to vote for KMD.

exactly. Your points, that you consider to constitute a case against KMD, led me to the opposite conclusion. It isnt that i dont trust the case itself, it's that i disagree with the conclusion reached. Or something like that.

BM

[Battle Mage]

And yes, these questions do absolutely no good unless you think I may be scum.

I thought the whole purpose of the game was to try and determine whether you are scum or not? Do you consider yourself confirmed town?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Why I had GIEFF as a lynch candidate. I do not like the usefull/useless amount. To me seemed he was posting loads to seem town, instead of actually finding scum with any of it.

Why, alexhans as candidate. Some little things, call that gut. Iĺl do a meta-read on you before I even plan voting you, becouse it might be playing style. And yes it is in order. And I think I like zach lynched over you.

I find Battlemage recent flip-flopping strange to say the least. Calling gieff mafia and town, wants to vote kmd but decides not to becouse gieff case confinces him kmd is not mafia? Then continues to vote the ¨scummy¨ person at the wagon of kmd.

@battlemage, what made you think kmd was scum in the first place? Before you saw Gieffs case.

Will be posting more in following days.

His attack on me was rubbish.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I've been told off for voting SensFan because people claimed it was his playstyle. But if his playstyle means willing to be unhelpful, inconsistent and scummy I'm totally willing to lynch him.

Actually, my playstyle is pretty much the opposite of what you've described.
My pay in this game is also nowhere near what you've described, though I admit I'm behind my usual standard. Other priorities, and I don't give a flying fuck if you want to lynch me because of it. If it weren't for the fact this was a YawMod game, I'd have requested replacement N0, and absolutely nothing that has happened since has put any more want in me to play this game with people like you.

^5. I still like Sens as town at this point.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I've been told off for voting SensFan because people claimed it was his playstyle. But if his playstyle means willing to be unhelpful, inconsistent and scummy I'm totally willing to lynch him.

Actually, my playstyle is pretty much the opposite of what you've described.
My pay in this game is also nowhere near what you've described, though I admit I'm behind my usual standard. Other priorities, and I don't give a flying fuck if you want to lynch me because of it. If it weren't for the fact this was a YawMod game, I'd have requested replacement N0, and absolutely nothing that has happened since has put any more want in me to play this game with people like you.

^5. I still like Sens as town at this point.

BM

Why?

He seems genuinely annoyed at the game moreso than caring to participate actively. It's a view i can really relate to.
It reads very protown to me.

BM

[Battle Mage]

No. Your case doesnt make me think KMD is scum.

So when you said this, did you really mean to say "Your case doesn't make me think KMD is

town

?"

If so, then what did you mean by this?

Was considering a KMD vote, until i read this ^.

No. And erm, no.

BM

[Battle Mage]

He seems genuinely annoyed at the game moreso than caring to participate actively. It's a view i can really relate to.
It reads very protown to me.

BM

It's not pro town. We can have a disagreement over how scummy his attitude is in the game, but I disagree with his attitude toward the game being pro town, but his attitude is certainly anti-town.

Im not talking about how good a player he is. I think he is town.

BM

[Battle Mage]

unvote

vote Battle Mage

There, the main wagon is on Battle Mage now. Please defend him?

heh, bit cold. Gonna reply to my PM or what?

Will catch up here shortly.

BM

[Battle Mage]

im happy with my vote.

[Battle Mage]

unvote

I see i'm a popular little boy.

Will catch up soonish.

BM

[Battle Mage]

i'm here.

Vote: Jammer

Gut instincts and vague recollections FTW!

BM

[Battle Mage]

I'm skimming, but this game is just making me paranoid, given so many people seem convinced i am scum. Alex should probably be lynched as a rule, after my death, just because itd be embarrassing for Alex-scum to get away with a victory after i flip town, and it turns out his entire contribution to the game has been anti-town. I still really really think Gieff could be scum. That's where my money would go right now. Based on the path the game has taken, id say lurkers are more likely town than scum. Sens is town. DDD could go either way, but i suspect he'd have been run up by now if he was town.

But yeah, i'm fine with taking the fall today.

Will try and get more thoughts down before i bite the dust.

BM

[Battle Mage]

didn't you think I was town, BM?

didn't you?

why are you saying that if I'm wrong people should lynch me?

I'm thinking back to Ready Salted Mafia, as a good example. I was scum in the game, and i played remarkably similarly to how you are playing here. I tunnelled 1 player (i think it was KScope) for the entire game, to the extent that the town just ignored us. But, had KScope died, after me attacking him so avidly for most of the game, i'd have inevitably been lynched next. It's just how it works. So, whilst i attacked KScope for so long, i didnt actually want him dead, and it was a very effective smokescreen, that allowed me to survive to a 3-man endgame, with 1 of the 2 being KScope himself. I lost, but i feel had i had more than 1 decent team-mate, we could have taken it to the hoop with that strategy.

I'm not sure what to make of you, because part of me thinks you sound like you genuinely believe what you say. My vibe from you is protown, but you have to appreciate that it's really hard to keep making the "he's just

an idiot

incorrect" excuse, against someone who continually pushes you, defying all logic, and plays so damn opportunistically. Your tunnel-visioned approach to the game is expressly anti-town. You might have a problem with my "wishy-washiness" but it's only because i'm wary of making a tit of myself, and leading us to a series of terrible lynches. In truth, my caution is one of the most protown things going for me today.

If nothing else, i expect you to take the following 2 things from my lynch, if you are indeed town:

1. Inconsistency is NOT a scumtell.
2. Tunnel-visioning is something you really need to work on in future games.

Would you be willing to be lynched if jammer flips town?

I dont think it matters, because i'm being lynched today. Because, after all your berating, i've completely lost interest with the game, i'm worse than useless at this point. I'm useless, and an easy mislynch. So, as my eventual lynch is pretty much inevitable, you might aswell get it over with today.

If i'm honest, my gut says you are town, and Gieff is scum. But im not certain enough on ANYONE to really have a vote out at this point. Hence,

Unvote

I'll hold off on a self-vote only because it might be informative for you guys to see who hammers me.

For those of you who ARE town, good luck, and sorry i couldnt be of more help.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Papa's home. Catching up now.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Zach is scum. He totally cant handle Alex and Gieff changing their opinions. Highly anti-town.

Sadly, we cant lynch him today.

Still reading.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Alex is town. His frustration seems genuine, altho his change of stance on me is surprising. Jammer is probably scum. His defence to Alex's accusation was weak.

I'm torn on Gieff. On the one hand, he is a very competent player regardless of affiliation, and his activity here is not a towntell by any means. But, i dont see scumbuddies bussing him, when he is such a powerful player. The way his wagon has formed lately leads me to believe he could be town.

SpyreX...meh, no real read atm. But the fact he is one of the few people who seem to think im town atm, really puts me off lynching him, from a purely selfish perspective, and also because, his play regarding that should be very telling.

If we hadnt had such a long and fruitless day, id consider a No-Lynch. But, as it stands, we need SOME kind of information to move on, and as anyone could really be scum from my PoV, best off lynching someone. Plus, numerically, a No-Lynch would be catastrophic if we have an odd number of players now.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Iso'd SpyreX. His position on me alone is remarkably consistent. Too consistent in fact-his reasoning for thinking i am town is based upon 1 incident early in the game, and he's clung to that ever since. I could see him as scum, moreso than Gieff right now.

Vote: SpyreX

Sorry buddy.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Alex is town. His frustration seems genuine, altho his change of stance on me is surprising. Jammer is probably scum. His defence to Alex's accusation was weak.

You mean the ¨Let not vote spyrex, got doubts about BM let vote, then let take jammer¨ accusion.

Also,

Unvote: DDD; Vote: gieff

feeling happier about my vote right now.

BM

[Battle Mage]

...alright, so now I have to go back and completely disregard anything GIEFF said with regards to anything, since he decided at some point to purposely play against his wincon, and so we have to assume he decided that pre-game.

I hate people that throw games.

I'm tempted to lynch you on the spot simply for hypocrisy. How do you suppose you will achieve your win condition if you arent even following the game?

BM

[Battle Mage]

the site doesnt like me doing this, but

Vote: Zach

BM

[Battle Mage]

I'm not being a rebel. Zach is obvscum. I could stand for a Jammer lynch, and probably a DDD lynch too.

I'll switch to Jammer if needed.

BM

[Battle Mage]

yeh, liking a Zach lynch right now. Mage's Unite!

BM

[Battle Mage]

Sens needs to man up and join the Zach wagon. Alex, i'd be most happy to take up your offer from yesterday, and have you vote alongside me today. In the event Zach is town, i'll hang tomorrow.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Alex, since this post:

Why not just have a 2nd preference for lynch Alex?

Because Im afraid of being wrong and his calling me stupid annoys me.

I'm going to play a soccer match now but when I come back I triple promise that I will read everything I missed and have my say.

BM has been scummy the whole game. The only problem is that, many times, his AtE seems genuine and, on hindsight, I can't find a motivation for Cephir over Vi unless Vi is scum.

Yeah, I suck... I've tunneled and now Im unsure... Now that Im so close to get what I wanted...

This is Newbie 744 all over again but without the replacements.

btw.

Unvote

Im gonna do some ISO Reads too. I guess.

And for the record, BM, my logic was NOT bad... you've done enough scummy things in my opinion.

PS: Surprising, right? I'll eagerly await any accusations about an BM+Alexhans pairing...

---random desperate thoughts

GIEFF would fuck up my sanity... So I still don't support a GIEFF lynch.

SpyreX still somewhat strikes me as town...

Im changing too much, right now...

this game has gone on too long.

I'm completely wifomed...

screw you all...

anyway... I keep thinking about pairs... and nothings makes sense.

I don't know...

jammer might be a good lynch.

bye.

You dropped one of the biggest towntells I know. Won't say what it is unless someone is desperate to know.

And how long have I been after Zach? Um. Day 3 I think? Maybe Day 2.

Why should I be voting Jammer on a connection to a player I think is scum instead of voting THAT player.

That's ridiculous KMD. If you had a 100% towntell, you should have said it.

Your suspicions on the previous page are also pp.

Unvote, Vote: Jammer

Call it cold feet if you like. But i'm starting to prefer doing it this way round.

BM

[Battle Mage]

kmd is scum.

yeh, i could see that actually.

Unvote, Vote: KMD

Wonder if this will get any support.

BM

[Battle Mage]

i got a scum read on KMD. With me brudda!

BM

[Battle Mage]

kmd is scum.

yeh, i could see that actually.

Unvote, Vote: KMD

Wonder if this will get any support.

BM

not when people keep dropping from wagon to wagon.

Jammer is scum, kmd is scum too. Jammer first.

what do you think about Zach?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Unvote, Vote: Sensfan

BM

[Battle Mage]

Unvote, Vote: Jammer

I changed my mind again. But i really do hate leaving Sens alive at this point.

BM

[Battle Mage]

hmm, bit of a shame to be lynched today, but i think i exceeded expectations.

And i highly doubt a town win, with the way this is shaping up.

My Jammer vote stands.

BM

[Battle Mage]

After their blatant coordination in attempting to get BM lynched, I am fine seeing either lynched at this point.

Yup, I blantently attempt to get BM lynched, so?

Unvote: Vote: Jammer

That vote does not surprise me at all, you where looking for reasons to vote me earlier this game-day. <_<

My opinion of Battle Mage's play hasn't really changed. My conclusion of his likely alignment is what has.

has? So what is your conclusion about his play? I can´t remember you posted your opinion about it.
I gues you pick town becouse you vote me now..

Also, can someone get some reasons why I am a scum?
Or does it purely come down towards, he voted KMD and (sarcastically) called it a chainsaw. And now switching votes together with KMD towards BM.

My gut's been raggin on you all game. So i should stick with it, i think. Besides, if you flip scum, we can probably work out the alignment of half the players here.

Especially given that i'm the alternative, i'm happy to see Jammer get the Hammer. xD

BM

[Battle Mage]

Vote: Benmage

I'm absolutely hammered, and my drunk senses are telling me that Benmage must be scum. I mean, if he was town, why wouldnt he be NKed yet? Alex wasnt Mr Mislyncher by any means, but Benmage is a smart guy, and nobody suspects him. He's absolutely cruised the game, and i've got a good gut feeling that he'd have got more heat if he was town.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Lol, given how much i hate losing, it's very rare that i say this, but:

Good game scum! You absolutely had us crushed. Given the size of the game, i think everyone was under a bit of heat at one time or another, but even if id got cold feet on the Benmage wagon, it's likely that my next suspect would have been Sens/Zach, both of whom were town. lol

So yeah, you completely deserve the landslide victory in my eyes. Tbh, im pretty pleased i managed to survive the duration of the game.
I'm also happy Sens was town- would have been a little aggreived if he'd managed to slip under the radar as scum.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Wow Kitty, a new high. Coming into a game you did not participate in, and start flaming. Fantastic.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Wow Kitty, a new high. Coming into a game you did not participate in, and start flaming. Fantastic.

BM

Well we all did fail hard as a town.

lol, she was whinging about it to me elsewhere beforehand though. And tbh, i hardly think the reason we lost was a direct result of me and Gieff "posting too much".

BM