Mafia 96 - Murder in Emerald City (Game Over!)

[Lowell]

Lowell is here, peoples. Things are about to get easier. Saturday, hopefully... Monday by the latest.

[Lowell]

Probably won't get to this today. But I've not forgotten.

[Lowell]

From the beginning:

8- mastin selfvotes [-, grandstanding]
11- kublai votes mastin, claims MILLER [+, approve of this tactic]
18- mastin claims jester
22- rofl votes mastin [+, needed]
43- newbish post from hayker [-, too newbish]
51- fallen questions rofl for tunnelvision on mastin
52- rofl calls fallen scum w/ mastin
59- rofl well explains why scum-miller claim isn't likely [+]
60- johnny finds voting scummy [?]
85- faraday votes hayker [+]
102- hayker argues over RVS [-, smoke and mirrors]
110s-120s- mafiamann and ckool argue, sort of [--, both look bad, too tame]
142- namttam votes hayker for his obsession with RVS [+, my sentiments exactly]
166- zazie points out KK's vig-slip [-, mediocre]
180s- hayker defends himself
213- fallen posts full playerlist [-, only takes on easy targets for possible scum]
219- johnny votes mastin, calls him a detriment to the town [+]
232- zazie explains why there's probably two scumteams
260s- fallen and mafiamann get into really dumb argument [-, both]
270s- ckool tries to be loved [-]
284- reveillark posts his suspicions [+]
292- rofl wants to lynch mastin, fallen, hayker, maifamann [++, me too!]
307- emp votes fallen
311- achilles enters, posts thoughts [+, town read]
336- emp votes KK [-]
344- wicked enters, votes johnny for not voting [-, ages ago, minor point]
346- ckool votes KK
354- hayker explains absencse [-], votes johnny for having "bad" posts [-, terrible, reeks of "ANYONE BUT ME!!"]
357- mafiamann votes hayker [+]
363- reveil votes johnny
367- johnny leads w/ 5 votes
377- ckool explains elaborate 'LOL' scumtell [+, clever, actually]
389- fallen votes ckool for coaching
406- fallen misses his mastin [-, dumb]
411- rofl votes hayker

Some thoughts:

I have strong town reads on the following:

rofl

- he's right in post 52, 59, and I especially approve of his list in 292. He gets points for being willing to say mastin's play is scummy as hell.

farady

- he had me at hello (post 85). since then everything he's done looks town.

ckool

- tries too hard to be loved, but the attacks on him lately seem weak and contrived.

kublai khan

- LOVE first post miller claims. ROFL's 59 explains why it's almost certainly true. In a game with three KNOWN killing factions, scum claiming miller is unlikely at best.

The following players are scummy and need death:

mastin and friends

- here's what bothers me about mastin's playstyle. Every two posts someone is there to quell any suspicion by saying "oh, he ALWAYS does that." Well, if he always does that, and he's not helping town (he really isn't), I don't know what I'm supposed to think other than scum. I have a nagging feeling that this is part of his plan, and I don't like that he seemed to enter with a lot of allies willing to get his back. I didn't record all the specific instances where everyone said stuff like "oh, well, that's mastin for ya' *eyeroll*" but the fact that they're there at all worries me.

hayker

- 102 is terrible and a clear diversion from real issues. His defense in the 180s does nothing for me, and 354 reeks of "please don't kill me!" bandwagonny.

fallen

- 213 is an awful post. In it he mindlessly identifies the two easiest (non-him) targets as

possible

scum, and even there doesn't go out on a limb far enough to make anyone angry. He's playing way too safe, and posts like 406 look like he's trying to stay on the good side of the active posters.

mafiamann

- he's involved in two supremely dumb arguemnts: in the 110s-120s with ckool and in the 260s with fallen. Both look tentative.


As a policy I haven't read (nor will I) any of mastin's inane long posts. If anything of import happens in them, I'll rely on others to convey it. I'm torn between voting him or fallen, but for now I'll

vote fallen

[Lowell]

Probably won't get to this today. But I've not forgotten.

Hey look I found time. Huzzah!

For those not mentioned above, dont' fret, I haven't forgotten about you. You just haven't made either list yet.

[Lowell]

@Lowell

Have you read the part in which Kublai states that he doesn''t know if he''s a miller or a death miller? If so, what are your thoughts about it?

I've been a miller several times before, and I don't have any idea what a "death miller" is, so I don't think it's that important. If anything, if he were scum I think he'd be more likely to lie and make up one or the other.

[Lowell]

The kublai thing is a sideshow.

Zazie has not convinced me why I should care what kind of miller KK might be.

[Lowell]

unvote, vote hayker

FA is a much better lynch, but we need more rival bandwagons. KK is still a bad move, and JR just seems lazy more than scummy.

[Lowell]

I still don't see how he's caught scum. Him not knowing what kind of miller he is doesn't do anything for me.

[Lowell]

Very happy with VPs first post. His take on the miller situation is well put (Zazie's pursuit of it looks worse than KKs response to said pursuit), as is his take on mastin's post-walls of idiocy.

[Lowell]

yeah i'm reading like none of these posts.

[Lowell]

still here. reading, sort of.

[Lowell]

unvote, vote mastin

. I am mufasa's alt.

[Lowell]

No, not really.

But I also don't feel like giving reasons.

[Lowell]

unvote

mastin, on the condition that he not ask me to read any of his posts ever.

Claim is fine. There are a million killing roles and he claimed a powerrole. He'll be dead soon anyway.

[Lowell]

I'll bandwagon.

vote mafiamann

[Lowell]

I'll be away for the weekend. At least until Monday.

[Lowell]

vote xyl

. Welcome.

I want very much for mastin to not be alive, but I'm willing to give another day to sort out his claim. fallen and hayker are still both scummy, though.

[Lowell]

unvote, vote hayker

[Lowell]

hayker or fallen are both fine with me. If the people have spoken one way, who am I to argue? If anyone's lazy here, it's you.

[Lowell]

Can somone other than mastin explain the VP case to me? I could be swayed.

[Lowell]

prod recieved. Will post thoughts tomorrow if I'm alive.

[Lowell]

vote hayker

.

Is he kidding me? He was scummy as hell D1, all but disappeared, then came back immediately after the thread opens to say "ouch, bad day to be a citizen." Easy vote.

More in-debts thoughts coming when I get around to it. Specifically I want to look at those leading the mastin wagon, and those derailing it.

[Lowell]

I missed a lot. Did hayker claim mason?

If so, a mason partner should pipe up and confirm. Coy masons annoy me and are useless.

If no one is willing to confirm, then he's making it up and we need his death.

[Lowell]

unvote

, I too believe the claim, and I like that wicked said they know the other is innocent.

vote xyl

. The next best thing.

[Lowell]

I'm still having trouble keeping up. Apologies.

@SC- Who said I'm their neighbor?

[Lowell]

Lowell - at one point you claim to be mufasa's alt as a reason for voting Masitn. In your next post you say something like 'not really, I just didn't want ot think up a reason.'

Given mole has claimed neighbor with empking, that leaves Mufasa's neighbor still unknown. Some poeple including myself though that your comment could have been a breadcrumb of some kind that you were neighbor with mufasa.

Is that theory correct?

Ah I see. No I was just making a joke, as, like him, I was placing a vote without listing a reason.

No, I am not mufasa's neighbor.

[Lowell]

Starting from page 20 (just after my entry post on 19):

480s- Zazie pushes the "death miller vs. miller" argument [-]
484- faraday wants to shut down role discussion [+]
528- Zazie wants to know where fallen is [-, coaching]
535- fallen says What did I do wrong? [-]
537- Zazie brushes it aside, moves to talk more about ckool [--]
619- Kise agrees that fallen angel is a good lynch
636- wicked *hearts* zaz [-, buddying, but probably cerulean]
638- Namttam votes KK for distraction [-, buddy to zazie?]
689- KK points out mastin's scumminess [+]
702- SC votes achilles [-, random, safe vote made to look meaningful]
712- VP votes mastin
719- rofl votes mastin
730- wicked votes empking's alt
736- namttam votes KK for being "proven scum" [-, terrible]
746- VP posts 45-point treatise on why mastin is scummy [+, likely cerulean NK]
749- SC offers strange quasi-defense of mastin [---]

Thoughts on pages 20-30:
1) The insane love-fest between mastin and zazie makes more sense now. They were both scum, buddying to each other.

2) VP was almost certainly the cerulean kill

3) People who look good:

KK

- not only is the claim still valid in my mind, the fact that his leading attacker (zazie) AND his leading suspect (mastin) were both scum is a big point in his favor

faraday

- stood up to zazie about role speculation

4) People who look NOT good:

fallen

- look again at 528, 535, and 537. Zazie lightly coaches fallen, fallen says "hey what gives", and zazie reminds him that they should be talking about ckool. Unlike zazie to behave this way, and do it so quickly.

SerialClergyman

- 749 might be the single least impressive post I've seen. In it he subtly suggests that most of the case on mastin is bad, but leaves enough "good points" in to make it looks like he's not blindly buddying. His lurkervote in 702 also does not impress.

wicked

- buddying w/ zazie in 636, then later casts a throw-away vote in 730

5) People who are confused:

namttam

- 638 is a confused mess, and looks vaguely like protecting zazie. 736 more or less repeats the same bad argument. He's tunnelling, either because he's bad or scum. I think the former.

Next 10 pages upcoming.

[Lowell]

@wicked- because I haven't had time. Chill out. To continue.

From page 31:

751- wicked says good points by VP, but he wants to hear from mastin before voting [-, really?]
753- wicked votes mastin [+, better]
768- mastin leads with 7 votes
788- wicked annoyed by ppl voting mastin (mufasa, Lowell) [-, derailment]
796- ckd votes mastin [+, not cerulean]
813- wicked still annoyed by people voting mastin (ckool)
815- mastin claims emerald roleblocker
830s-840s- votes pile onto mafiamann
908- namttam votes VP [-]
943- kmd enters, votes rofl [+, good entry posts]
958- hayker votes rofl

Getting closer to the D1 lynch. Some thoughts:

1) It's stupid that we didn't see mastin claiming "Mafia Roleblocker" as him being Mafia Roleblocker

2) People who look town:

kmd

- his behavior at entering is good, as is his contribution

3) People who look bad:

rofl

- usually I do whatever he tells me to do in mafia games, but that might be a bad idea here. His only presence is to reassure us that KK is a miller.

namttam

- always seems to be on the wrong side of everything. The VP vote makes no sense, even without hindsight

4) People who look REALLY bad:

wicked

- he's falling all over himself trying to protect mastin. His 751, followed immediately by 753 make no sense. In addition, his whining about people voting masin in 788 and 813 looks bad. Yes, yes, I realize those three votes (Lowell, mafiamann, ckool) were cast without much or any explanation, but WICKED HIMSELF WAS VOTING MASTIN ALSO, and supposedly found him scummy. I find it hard to believe that a town voting his best instinct would be angry when other people join the bandwagon. He's trying to play both ways: being on the mastin wagon early, but complaining when it gets closer to lynch. Very very scummy.

[Lowell]

From page 41 (still Day 1):

1007- mole enters, votes mufasa [meh]
1000s- ppl push for a mafiamann claim
1030- hayker hammers, following townie claim
1034- mafiasmann, kise, mufasa (town) and zazie (vermillian scum) dead

DAY 2
1051- xly enters, vote hayker
1054- lowell votes hayker
1055- KK votes lowell for going w/ the flow [+, fair]
1067- hayker votes rofl
1073- rofl votes mastin [+]
1082- xyl votes mastin [+]
1084- KK votes mastin
1095- kmd votes rofl [-]
1099- rofl opints out kmd's buddying w/ mastin [+]
1103- namttam votes VP [?]
1110s- rofl and kmd argue pointlessly
1125- ckd votes ckool
1164- ckd convinced, votes mastin, still suspects ckool [+]
1186- wicked votes ckool after convincing himself [----, mastin the other suspect]
1206- SC votes ckool [-, protecting mastin]
1214- namttam votes rofl
1220- KK votes ckool
1223- hayker votes ckool
1226- ckool leads with 5 votes, mastin, rofl have 3 each
1228- xyl votes ckool
1237- rofl votes ckool
1241- ckool cliams VIGILANTE, claims N0 kill

Thoughts:

1) People who look good:

rofl, KK

- for sniffing out the mastin headfake

ckd

- he joined the mastin wagon at a good time for someone who isn't aligned with mastin. The two roleblockers point is a good one, and scum might want to try to ignore that, and wouldn't use that opportunity to join the bandwagon

2) People who look bad:

wicked

- as ever, defending mastin. Right after ckd switched his vote from ckool to mastin (after the two town roleblockers was pointed out) but leaving the door open for voting ckool, wicked jumps in with a post saying "hey, maybe ckool is scum," then a post voting ckool.

SC

- also seems eager to not lynch mastin

[Lowell]

The rest will come tomorrow.

[Lowell]

Pages 51-60. I want to make sure I finish this today.

1260s- rofl and kmd agree to a death wager, rofl if mastin is town, kmd if he's scum, both vote mastin
1303- wicked reluctantly votes mastin after trying to derail [-]
1336- KK hammers mastin
1339- ckool, VP, emp (town) die night 2

Day 3
1349- hayker votes rofl for setting up kmd lynch
1351- rofl votes kmd
1369- rofl votes hayker
1380s- rofl, hayker, wicked all argue, two vs. rofl
1417- KK votes rofl for being fishy
1418- kmd votes rofl, agrees
1442- faraday votes hayker
1448- lowell votes hayker
1461- kmd votes wicked
1465- SC votes namttam for sneaking onto VP wagon [+]
1469- mole votes hayker
1483- namttam FOS SC [-, OMGUS]
1496- KK votes hayker

Thoughts on pages 51-60:
1) Much of this stretch was consumed with a running argument between rofl on one side, and hayker/wicked on the other. In light of future revelations, this makes a little more sense and doesn't look so bad.

2) People who look good:

SC

- developed a new case in 1465, which gains a bit of traction and was probably needed. This doesn't make me feel better about his early derailment of the mastin wagon.

rofl

- I see how the "death wager" between rofl and kmd could look bad for rofl (directing a kill after bussing a partner). But since its rofl I tend to think it's just playstyle and a genuine (but not certain) belief in mastin's scumminess. I find bussing unlikely, as I doubt mastin would have sat back and taken it, AND I think rofl dug deep to keep the mastin case alive. He wasn't just riding the wagon, he was driving it, so I don't think he's cerulean.

hayker

- coming out of his shell a little, especially after some votes pile on

3) People who look NOT good:

kmd

- something about him is off. His accusation that rofl is directing a kill doesn't really hold up to me. The way he then completely drops the rofl case to focus on others looks bad, like he's trying to get rofl to leave him alone and would rather fight easier targets (lowell, faraday).

namttam

- 1483 is pure and simple OMGUS. My sense is someone who would so reflexively and defensively FOS his first attacker is also someone who would relatively openly circle the wagons for a scum teammate, like on D1 with zazie.

[Lowell]

From page 61:
1516- hayker leads with 5 votes
1517- hayker claims mason, knows partner is town
1520- xyl thinks he wants partner claim, maybe [-, seeking approval]
1527- ckd wants to know more, hayker stonewalls
1541- lowell says hayker's partner needs to claim
1544- rofl votes xyl for accusing wicked strangely [+, good point]
1550- hayker reveals his partner (wicked)
1552- mole votes lowell for rolefishing [-, stupid, masons don't matter]
1553- kmd votes namttam
1565- nam calls masonclaim "useful" for getting rid of his suspicions
1572- mole votes hayker, claims neighbor to emp, questions that there would be masons and neighbors [+]
1582- wicked confirms hayker's claim [+]
1586- wicked votes xyl
1587- SC discusses roles [-, a pointless distraction, trying to look active]
1593- lowell votes xyl
1595- ckd votes xyl
1633- mole explains his claim and the timing
1640s- rofl/xyl argue over xyl's scumminess
1658- xyl speculates lowell is mufasa's partner
1677- xyl leads with 4 votes (7 needed)
1695- lowell says he's not mufasa's neighbor
1697- xyl votes lowell
1709- Spyrex enters
1724- spy calls the 4th neighbor scum
1725- spy votes nam
1729- xyl would "put money" on lowell being mafia neighbor [-, douche-posting]
1732- spy too would put "heavy money" on things [-]
1742- nam votes xyl
1743- xyl votes nam
1745- wicked defends lowell's charges against him [meh]
1747- KK votes nam
1750- nam claims townie, no powerrole

Thoughts:

1) Regarding game setup: 4/4 scumteams would be waaay too powerful. I'm not sure why everyone sees masons/neighbors and assumes we have a super-strong town. Really? Neighbors? The scum have powerroles, we have self-confirming townies? Not exactly a battle of the titans. It's 3/3 for scum. I believe the mason claims, as well as mole's neighbor claim (and that he's town). Were he scum I think he would have exploited this earlier, right after emp ended up dead. No reason to wait until now. I agree that the fourth neighbor could be scum, but I don't particularly think it matters.

2) People who look good:

hayker, wicked, mole

- as stated, I believe the claims. Hayker and wicked in particular. I don't buy that they'd try such a crazy gambit.

3) People who look NOT good:

xyl

- His indecisiveness in 1520 is bad. His speculating on mufasa's neighbor is bad. Also, I hate posts like 1729. When people say "I'd put money on..." what I read is "I'm scum lazily going through the motions pretending to be emotionally invested in this scumhunt!" It's a cheap rhetorical device, in addition to a obvious attempt to cozy up to a new player (spyrex)

spy

- His running dialogue of catching up is horrible. In my case, I'm reading through while staring at a list of dead players and their roles. He's trying to look town by doing it "blind" and seeming like he doesn't have anything or anyone to protect.

namttam

- his vote on xyl is opportunistic, and his claim doesn't save him.

I'll hammer namttam if needed, but xyl and even spy are much better lynches. Take xyl's squirmishness and buddying and add it to fallen's insane scuminess and I'm starting to see a pattern with players in that role.

[Lowell]

I have this feeling like a few people aren't posting:
Achilles
Lowell
curiouskarmadog
Faraday

This post is a note to myself that they're the ones to look at if I want a lurker hunt.

Lowell is probably scum. Maybe Faraday too.

This post is what I was referring to. Yes, I see that at other times you've looked at other players as well.

[Lowell]

No I was trying to give honest assesments as I saw them of LIVING players. You'll notice the already-dead don't appear in my town or scumlists. Unlike Spy, who wants us all to see how town he thinks ckool is.

[Lowell]

prod received. nothing has changed from my last post.

[Lowell]

mod

, apologies, but I'll be on vacation for the next two weeks or so. I will hopefully find internet for at least some of that time, but either way I'd prefer not to be replaced.

[Lowell]

Self-voting is incredibly scummy. He claimed townie. Case closed.

unvote, vote namttam

[Lowell]

Sorry, internet is worse than I'd hoped. It's possible I won't have time until Sunday, though I'll try to get caught up before then.

[Lowell]

Ok read this page only.

This is a busted wagon. How much credit does anyone get for starting a bandwagon on someone on vacation?

Therefore, I decline to claim.

When I come back Sunday I will sort this all out and pick out the scum.

[Lowell]

Okay let's just get on with it.

I'm vanilla, I have nothing to do with mufasa. My comment was a joke regarding my (and his) non-explanatory vote posts.

I feel like I have two kinds of games: those I have a handle on (and am active) and those I don't (and tend to lurk). I doubt it's much of a scum/towntell either way, but I can see why the latter looks scummier.

Still, with 78 pages it's a bit depressing that this is what we're looking at to lynch folks. I'll post some thoughts in the next few minutes if I can hold internet connection for that long, otherwise I'll be back Sunday to answer whatever needs answering.

[Lowell]

vote spy

This is as good as any. I briefly looked over the posts since my last recap, and his running narration just looks forced, and poor.

[Lowell]

RL a bear right now (taking a new job), give me until Wednesday, please, to catch up.

[Lowell]

^^^^ this post is downright scummy (esp the "anyone want to bet..." part, pity party much?). Still, no one wants to vote ckg so I'll take a flier.

xyl looks like the best target so far, but I'm still reading. I've not forgotten how scummy his predecessor was.

[Lowell]

Why would I breadcrumb mason and then deny it? Still reading, but this is the part of the case against me that is the dumbest. Wouldn't I, um, WANT people to think I'm a mason?

[Lowell]

prod received. I will have access at work tomorrow to catch up.

[Lowell]

Mafia 96, page 76-85:

1876- namttam self-votes, throws pity party
1877- SC asks namttam, if town, to not give up [-, looks like he's trying to win an ally]
1886- nam leads w/ 6 votes (7 needed)
1888- lowell hammers
1890- nam, rofl, mole all dead, all town
1894- wicked votes xyl
1898- xyl votes lowell due to "breadcrumb"
1899- ckd votes lowell, agrees w/ xyl [-, opportunistic]
1900- SC votes lowell, says his vote can change [-, cruising for targets]
1901- kmd votes SC
1902- spy votes lowell, "fine" with vote (lynch-2)
1900s- hayker, faraday both promise lowell votes
1913- lowell refuses to claim
1915- spy tries to be clever
1921- wicked votes spy based on scum killing patterns, thinks scum must be a replacement [+, interesting point]
1935- xyl repeats that kmd and spy are town [-, strange scumhunting method]
1939- faraday votes lowell (L-1)
1940- ckd calls out people's lack of guts for not voting lowell
1948- lowell claims vanilla, again denies mufasa link
1951- xyl unvotes [?], votes SC [-, thanks, but, why notice this just now?]
1967- wicked votes SC
1971- ckd still suspects lowell, doesn't understand xyl [+]
1981- xyl gets way meta in explaining lynch strategies [-, not really scumhunting]
1983- hayker votes lowell
200s- xyl takes on spy/ckd in explaining behavior [+]
2021- lowell leads w/ 5 votes (L-1)
2022- wicked votes xyl for recent behavior
2024- ckd quasi-conceded argument to xyl, "bets" lowell will vote him [--, all kinds of horrible, trying to be peacemaker and victim at the same time]
2027- xyl continues his own defense [+]
2049- spy makes strangely chummy post to xyl [-]
2051- xyl continues his defense and attack on ckd
2056- faraday continues to push "breadcrumb" case on lowell [-, lazy]
2060- spy unvotes, votes ckd
2061- SC "gives up" talking w/ xyl [-, backing away from conflict not town]
2104- wicked votes kmd
2116- KK votes ckd

Some thoughts:

1)

xyl

's behavior around my claim is strange. I angrily claimed townie and that was enough for him to unvote? Really? Were I another player in the game I'd have hammered the shit out of me. That said, he is on my side (for now) and his case on ckd is a decent one. He also gets points for being by far the most dynamic player in the past 10 pages or so, at times single-handedly pushing the discussion. I

still

don't like his predecessor, though, so I'll take a pass on guessing his alignment.

2)

ckd

looks bad. I don't like the way he blindly pushed my wagon. I more don't like the way he has tried to back out of an argument with xyl. Xyl is pushing, and ckd just seems to want him to stop. 2024 in particular is a horrible horrible post.

3)

faraday

looks bad. I like him earlier in the game, but his tunnel-vision is starting to drive me crazy. He's never explained why I would breadcrumb, then so flatly and repeatedly

deny

it. Further, I've never understood why being linked somehow to mufasa would make me scum, and it hasn't been explained, except hastily after the fact of the wagon surrounding me.

4)

SC

looks bad as well. His initial vote on me in 1900 reeks of equivocation (or of trying to align targets with partners) and bandwagony. His trying to back away from dealing with an over-active xyl in post 2104 is damning as well. He's trying to hid in plain sight.

5) The thing that most jumps out at me in the past few pages is the connection between

SC

and

ckd

. For two relatively active players, they never attack each other, and generally come down the same way on most of the hot issues (pro-lynching lowell, posts 1899 & 1900; anti-dealing w/ xyl in 2024 & 2061; pro-passive-aggressively wanting people to switch back to lowell [in 1971 ckd rushes to SC's defense by reasserting the value of the lowell wagon]). If there's a scumpair to be found (which usually I put minimal stock in) it's SC and ckd.

6)

spy

looks bad as well. He looks like he's doing some

serious

buddying with xyl. In 1902 he half-heartedly joins xyl's lowell wagon. After xyl declares spy town in 1935, spy quietly abandons his advocacy of the lowell wagon (it no longer contains xyl), makes a cryptically chummy post in 2049, and finally votes ckd in 2060 (in an equally cryptic manner). He wasn't thrilled to join the lowell wagon in 1902, and wasn't thrilled to jump off the lowell wagon in 2060. Intentional or not, his buddying to xyl is obvious.

My guess at scum:

ckd, SC

one team

spy

the other team

unvote, vote ckd

. For his fear of entanglement with xyl, his constant reshuffling of the same case on me, and for his buddying with scummy serialclergyman.

[Lowell]

BTW, apologies that this took so long.

[Lowell]

3) faraday looks bad. I like him earlier in the game, but his tunnel-vision is starting to drive me crazy. He's never explained why I would breadcrumb, then so flatly and repeatedly deny it. Further, I've never understood why being linked somehow to mufasa would make me scum, and it hasn't been explained, except hastily after the fact of the wagon surrounding me.

Well I think your reasoning for breadcrumbing would be b/c you are actually a neighbour. And denying it, well the reason seems obvious, with 3 dead town neighbours and 2 masons who are confirmed town, it seems very likely the last neighbour would be scum, and claiming it would make you more likely to be lynched.

That's basically why I think you'd be unwilling to claim neighbour.

It's shocking how little sense this makes.

So, to clarify, my thought process is this?
1) aha, I'm scum, but I'll claim mason, so that when other masons are confirmed town, I'll look town!
2) time to breadcrumb!
2) oh no! Other masons have died and been confirmed town! ABORT ABORT!

@KK- hayker isn't trying, faraday's tunnelling, and ckd and SC think with one brain. That's probably why the case on me seems contrived.

unvote, vote SC

. For some reason this one is more popular than ckd. They're basically the same person so that's fine.

[Lowell]

^^ Scum.

1) You're a

scum neighbor.

2) You naturally breadcrumb your neighbor ability.
3) It seems obvious that with 2 town masons and 3 town neighbors the one last remaining neighbor has a high probability of being scum, or else the mod would just have had 3 sets of masons. You don't claim.

Your defence didn't even broach the subject because you start from a position where you fakeclaim, which obviously isn't the case. The fact that Xyl just praised this piece of garbage continues to implicate the two of them.

Much has been made of me and CKD thinking alike but as far as I know I haven't don't anything to defend him and vice versa - all we've done is oppose Xyl, and be vocal about it. Xyl and lowell on the other hand, as well as pushing a case on me based on very little (remember it started with IIoA that died completely under scrutiny - why exactly did it continue?) have also defended each other from pressure.

Plus Lowell is groping for any target that isn't him. From Spyrex to ckd to me - just whoever will do, won't it?

Two things:

1) I'm not saying the last mason/neighbor can't be scum, what I'm saying is that (a) were I the mason, (b) were I scum, and (c) had I

made the choice to breadcrumb and claim mason

, why would I then ABANDON THE STRATEGY after other masons died and turned up town. You think someone said "hey, maybe the last neighbor is scum" and I got scared and backed off the claim? That makes horribly horribly no sense.

Believe me, if I were mason, I would have claimed (not breadcrumbed) mason on page 1. If I were scum, I wouldn't bother indulging you in this argument. But how else will you learn?

Incidentally, I do NOT believe that the last mason/neighbor is scum. I don't know why people are assuming that. As far as "scum power roles" go, that would be a dumb one, and I don't see how it fits to have 3 pairs, 6 players, and exactly one of them in one pair is scum. It seems contrived to make it look like there's a case when there's none.

2) I love this line as defense that SC and CKD aren't a team: "as far as I know I haven't don't anything to defend him and vice versa - all we've done is oppose Xyl, and be vocal about it." Well, good thing you haven't openly defended each other! The fact is your play has run suspiciously parallel. Your not "defending" each other probably has more to do with conscious effort than lack of desire (and also isn't really true. Attacking me, for example, helps you AND ckd, even though it isn't technically "defending" him)

[Lowell]

@KK- my bad. I use the words (mason/neighbor) interchangeably, though I guess I shouldn't. The point remains, if I were going to use my mason/neighbor status as a way to prove my towniness later, why would I then BACK OUT of that plan after all the others turn up town?

[Lowell]

I don't like people talking themselves into my lynch again. I thought we were past that. If there's anything resembling a real case I'll address it. My suspicion is that it's a few people tunnelling (hayker, faraday), a few others lazy as sin, and another desperately and suspiciously trying to play "peacemaker" (spy).

unvote, vote ckd

. I find him and SC basically interchangeable. I'll vote for either, and I wouldn't dare question the current SC lovefest.

[Lowell]

You guys are immense chumps. The "every other day hider" claim makes no sense. Still it's verifiable, so whatever.

Here's an idea. Let me live. Have him hide behind me.

unvote, vote kmd

. Someone other than me, please. I'm finally starting to pay attention to this and you'll need me.

[Lowell]

Wow this got out of control fast.

[Lowell]

Look somehow I claimed scum again. Fantastic.

Let's try again, you'll need me because I'm useful, not because I'm scum.

[Lowell]

Wait am I dead?

Bah go town.

(See, anyone can do it at any time, be careful of retarded "town" tells)

[Lowell]

BTW In Twillight Faraday said he was scum. Just member that.

I've been saying he was scum all day.

(I thought you meant Twilight mafia the first time I read this hence the confusion )

How could you possibly know I'm scum? Hindsight is dumb and not impressive, right or wrong.

[Lowell]

*iz ded*