Mafia 96 - Murder in Emerald City (Game Over!)

[Achilles]

I am a bit surprised by how frequent and how long Mastin's posts are, but if he has a habit of doing this early in games, then I'm not sure what to make of it. It is distracting in a way, but at the same time, it generates conversation, and the more talk there is, the more likely chance there is for scum to slip up.

[Achilles]

You know what I think? I think the following people REALLY need to share their opinions/what they've found out:

Achilles
BloodCovenent
dvdkid13
Namttam
Redith
reveillark

Seriously, you six are on the borderline of lurking.

You too Wickedestjr... But you posted right before this post, so at least we know you're here.

I checked the thread this morning and there were like 3 pages, and now there's 11 @__@. I'm going to read everything and post my thoughts tomorrow.

[Achilles]

Whew, that was a lot of reading.

My thoughts on the players who have votes:

Mastin - I have never played with him but his style is incredibly hard to catch up on. It's just a ridiculous wall of text, and half the comments don't even contribute much. Furthermore, it becomes very confusion for the townies to follow his process when rereading, and I think it gets detrimental to the game. That being said, I don't see him as a mafia member, but not as a helpful townie.

Johnny Rotten - Slight things for him, but overall I don't see him as scummy. 268 seems weak overall - the only thing with any real basis was the 2nd reason.

Hayker - I don't even remember why he was in the hot seat. Anyone care to refresh my mind?

KK - I suspect him the most. He claimed Miller, which is a non-tell IMO since he could be mafia but it's not conclusive, but later on he showed confusion about his role which just seems like either a noobtownie or a mafia that slipped up. 166 also points out an interesting thing about KK.

fallen angel - the change of mind in 265 - 267 is slightly suspicious, but players can change their stance on others throughout the game and I don't find fallen to be scummy.

I think KK is the scummiest of the 5 who have votes right now, but Mastin is also a huge distraction and the excessive sarcasm makes me suspicious of him. I'm probably not the best judge, however, because I've never played with him before or know his style.

[Achilles]

ZazieR has been posting just as much as Mastin has, but his posts are easy to read sentences/paragraphs, so it's not that distracting. Furthermore, I don't know if ZazieR usually posts this much so I don't have a good read on him.

[Achilles]

I'm sorry for the wrong pronoun. :[

[Achilles]

what do you guys mean by figure out the "sanity of the cop"?. I'm assuming vig-killed means vigilante killed?

[Achilles]

@Achilles (311): Why did you only focus on those who have votes?

A user asked for the people who hadn't posted much yet to post their opinion, so I figured the best way was to just comment on people who were already under suspicion. I can't think of other people beside the ones who currently have votes who stand out to me a suspicious, so I didn't comment on anyone else.

[Achilles]

Yes, I'd also like if someone could summarize the arguments against JR. I don't remember reading anything from him that seemed blatantly scummy, but I guess I might be forgetting something.

[Achilles]

@ Kublai Khan (376) - At that point I did not have suspicions other then those who currently have votes.

Currently, I'm seeing ckool5000 more and more as scum. I felt 377 was just him trying to post something worthwhile, but 390 and subsequent posts seemed like scumtell.

[Achilles]

@ Namttam (407) - I believe I addressed that post when I posted my first evaluation after reading the thread. 1st reason is weak because that is Mastin's meta and I believe the consensus was that his posting was a nulltell. 2nd was your strongest point and I agree. 3rd is not scummy to me; perhaps he wanted to get more info on Mastin if he had never played with Mastin before. 4th seems scummy but could you state what post you were referring to?

[Achilles]

What slight things?

I addressed that in 409.

You think a person can change their mind this fast? You don't think it is somebody trying to blend in?

In certain cases yes, but in that situation I believe the person could've just re-read his old posts and reconsidered his/her opinion. I don't think it was a drastic change either - he went from saying that the person was "leaning toward scum" to saying he's neutral. It's not like it went from neutral to scum or some big change like that.

[Achilles]

So are you tunneling?

At 311 I was just interested in showing that I wasn't inactive, so I addressed the immediate concerns that I saw. I don't see that as tunneling because I was just posting my thoughts on accusations that others have made.

Unrelated, but if JR is getting replaced, how is the new guy supposed to deal with the suspicion that JR has received. In essence, my question is, are our previous reads on JR valid even though JR is getting replaced for a new guy?

[Achilles]

Fourth, suggesting voting is a scum tell, you specify the early stages of the game but I think that doesn't make the statement anymore valid.

4th seems scummy but could you state what post you were referring to?

This one and this one.
If you ever want to find post by a certain player scroll to the bottom of the page and where it say display posts by, select the player you are looking for.

I think he was just trying to play an active role in the game and did a poor job. Suggesting voting in RVS as a scumtell seems more noobish to me then it does scumish. What self respecting mafia member would want to draw attention to themselves by proposing that a random vote can be scummy?

So are you tunneling?

At 311 I was just interested in showing that I wasn't inactive, so I addressed the immediate concerns that I saw. I don't see that as tunneling because I was just posting

my thoughts on accusations that others have made.

Unrelated, but if JR is getting replaced, how is the new guy supposed to deal with the suspicion that JR has received. In essence, my question is, are our previous reads on JR valid even though JR is getting replaced for a new guy?

Bold inserted by me. So whos actions are you actually suspicious of? Is there no one that you feel isn't getting enough attention? What scum tells did you pick up on from ckool?(referencing post 409)

ckool is the scummiest to me atm.

ckool in 390 says :

Yep. That confirms it. I should just keep my mouth shut.

Now there is no reason at all for a townie to ever keep his mouth shut. In 395 he says that he doesn't have anything worthwhile to say, but what's to stop him from asking questions to others or simply just posting how he feels about recent events. Being quiet is only beneficial to mafia, and I felt ckool in 390 was not being nooby, he was being scummy.

He tries to cover it up in 453 by writing:

Did I ever say I was going to stop scumhunting? Nope...I only said I should probably stop saying things that'll make me want to foot in my mouth

This seemed weak me to. ckool, you didn't say you were going to give up scumhunting, but you did explicitly say I should keep my mouth shut after Fallen I believe accused you of something. You're trying to play it off as if it was something stupid you said when I believe it was moreso something scummy.

and you guys turned it into me cracking under pressure (which I kinda was, I admit)

"me cracking under pressure" bothers me ckool. If you're a townie, there shouldn't be anything for us to crack open from you. I can understand getting flustered under pressure, but you could say "I was getting frustrated by the pressure" or "annoyed" or "unsure," but writing "cracking" makes me think like you have something to hide.

[Achilles]

In fact, it seems like you're using the scum tactic of selective quoting... Or maybe it's just me.

umm lol? What is this scum tactic of 'selective quoting'? It's not like I'm changing your words around - I'm simply addressing things that I don't agree with.

[Achilles]

EBWOP: That should say ckool5000 wrote, not Achilles wrote.

[Achilles]

posting to show I'm here. I'll be catching up over the weekend

[Achilles]

finally caught up. posting thoughts/responses soon.

[Achilles]

A user asked for the people who hadn't posted much yet to post their opinion, so I figured the best way was to just comment on people who were already under suspicion. I can't think of other people beside the ones who currently have votes who stand out to me a suspicious, so I didn't comment on anyone else.

Wow, shocker. Talk aobut trying to fit in with the crowd.

Considering that was my first post in like 8 pages, I'm just posting my view, not trying to fit in.

At 311 I was just interested in showing that I wasn't inactive, so I addressed the immediate concerns that I saw. I don't see that as tunneling because I was just posting my thoughts on accusations that others have made.

Unrelated, but if JR is getting replaced, how is the new guy supposed to deal with the suspicion that JR has received. In essence, my question is, are our previous reads on JR valid even though JR is getting replaced for a new guy?

Every time Achilles pops up I twitch like I'm Michael J Fox. Just being interested in showing you're not inactive is utterly unhelpful. Just because JR is getting replaced certainly does NOT waive him of all suspicion thus far attributed. Why on earth would anyone suggest that? Scummmmmmy

I didn't suggest that we waive off all suspicion off of him - don't exaggerate my posts. This is the 2nd game I've ever joined on MafiaScum and I have not been in a position where someone under heavy suspicion was asking for a replacement, so I was unsure about what to think. Obviously it's not fair to blame the new guy for JR's actions, but I realized that points against JR would still be valid. It was just a question.

- Easy targets
- Preoccupation with town approval
- Zero personal scumhunting, lots of piggybacking
- Attempting to completely dismiss case against JR due to him being replaced.

Easy targets? My first thoughts were on the current votees because I just wanted to get my thoughts out there. My other posts were truly what I felt from what I read - not just trying to get someone lynched. You'll notice that I haven't voted yet. That's because I wasn't interested in starting a bandwagon against someone before giving them a chance to write an adequate defense.

I don't see your point about town approval. Every player in the game seeks the approval of the town to support them and hunt scum. Scum want town approval so they can bandwagon or get rid of townies easily and keep themselves out of suspicion. If I wanted town approval I would be hopping on bandwagons and trying to get people lynched.

I apologize for the scumhunting part. I'm about to post that right now. Like I said, it's a really big game and I was overwhelmed, but I'm set now.

I didn't "attempt to completely dismiss him". I simply asked a question.

2) Achilles wins scummiest and my vote.

unvote if necessary, vote: Achilles

I'd urge you all to read him in iso, it's not a pretty sight.

Your main argument against me is that I'm just trying to bandwagon with someone without post my own analysis or asking questions. While I understand your perspective, my reason for doing so is that this is my 1st large game and I'm pretty overwhelmed, especially with the ridiculous amounts of text in the thread.

I understand, however, that the best way to defend myself is to provide my own analysis and start scumhunting, and that is what I'm going to write in my next post. I've just always been behind in the thread so I was pretty unsure, especially with all this reading, but I'm up to date now, so I can actually offer my insight.

[Achilles]

I think MafiaMann is scummy. Just look at his post history from 71-75 and it is full of pretty contradictory statements.

Vp brings off a lot of good points against mastin that several people were just ignoring because its his play style im glad some took the time to look but if he is like that always its a null tell.

Here he agrees with VP's statement that people shouldn't just brush it off as his playstyle, but then goes on to say that if Mastin is always like that, then it is a null tell. Why agree with VP when you suggest the exact opposite of what he's suggesting?

Mastin really needs to stop with the ridiculous posts i didnt even read all of his last two and its getting to the point that its causing so many more problems than any benefit we can possibly be getting from them.

Why are you playing on a text-based board if you don't want to read? If anything, skim over them instead of analyzing every phrase, but don't just blatantly ignore it.

[quote="MafiaMann @ 75]
I suggest we stop voting mastin for now this happened way to fast but I cant read mastins posts so if mastin could summarize something in a short post. [/quote]

Same thing here. You're just basically bandwagoning on Mastin without even reading what he has to say. Furthermore, VP has made some Mastin-length posts. You can read those but not Mastin's?


Mastin does not come off as scum to me. I believe his argument about KK forgetting the "emerald" part is misdirected. Here's how I saw it. A townie would likely consider the Emerald part as just flavor and simply post miller, which is his/her role. "Emerald Miller" would seem redundant. A scum, on the other hand, would try to add validity to his claim by adding on the emerald part to miller, to make it seem more valid. It was also said that scum rarely claim miller because miller is usually vig killed. If the miller is indeed vig killed, then why should we spend a day vote on KK when all we really have to go off of is that he didn't write emerald and the death/normal situation.

Mastin's posts, however, are a real trek to go through. I don't believe his posts are scumtells, especially after I read some of his other games, but they make it very difficult for people to catch up to the thread or just follow the train of that. It might not be intended as anti-town, but it certainly comes off like that because that's just how he plays. That's the main reason I see for voting him off.

Speaking of KK, he also received accusations of why he wasn't aware of what kind of miller he was. I didn't find too much substance in these accusations, but I was interested in his response. People suggested KK to PM the mod and confirm what kind of username was here, and unless I overlooked it, I waited forever for the response. I recollect KK telling that the mod just PM'd him his role back, so KK figured he was an ordinary miller. What I was wondering is why it took so long to post this - why didn't you write this when you first got a response?

ZazieR has been on KK's case throughout the thread, and I don't think there was enough against KK to truly justify that. I was suspicious of KK as well, but not enough to advocate a day 1 lynch, especially if vig killed is going to be a possibility. I just don't find substance in her reasons against KK, as elaborated above.

SerialClergyman seems pro town to me. He has made valid accusations with a logical basis behind them, and I have not seen anything really scummy from him.

That's all for now. Going to post more later, but I'm out to lunch atm.

[Achilles]

@mod votecount please

I'm fairly certain that MafiaMann is scum, but I'm also interested in seeing how Mufasa plans to explain his actions.

@ Mufasa - please directly address 871. I felt your 873 was just avoiding the question, and I'm interested in you explaining why your thoughts changed so quickly.

[Achilles]

re-reading right now.

[Achilles]

I'm on page 46, going to post thoughts soon