Mafia 93 - A Roccisi Summer - Over!

[ThAdmiral]

here been busy but am here. will read up on this highly active game and post comments!

[ThAdmiral]

Pages 1-3
The oh-so-important random phase is "interrupted" by ogb claiming he is an alt. For some reason this makes him obvscum according to seraphim and rofl and others. I tend to disagree.
At worst he is being slightly unhelpful. Whoever said he is trying to distract the town from scum hunting is ridiculous as its rather easy to attempt a guess at who he's and alt of/ignore him altogether

and

hunt scum at the same time. Anyone who can't do a simple multitasking assignment like this should probably quit the game mafia for good.

Page 4
Mufasa claims joat really early. Why? Charter and seraphim then vote for mufasa. Even more why?
Mufasa seems inexperienced.
Seraphim says something about the "tone" in which mufasa claimed which is just a very poor and completely subjective way to keep his vote on someone who may very well be a town power role.

However...iamusername points out a very interesting fact that players aren't given their role names. While this is true I don't think it's impossible that a person could have surmised their role from their abilities (I know I can), however it does seem slightly unlikely that an inexperienced player would know about a jack of all trades. It could be a scum claim but it would be a risky one.

caboose defends mufasa. noted.

it seems mufasa is not inexperienced but is a bit daft. he also is trying to tell the doc what to do. hmm.

will continue later.

[ThAdmiral]

page 6
mufasa's past is revealed. apparently he is a bit of a menace.

Spyrex votes ogb for fairly shady reasons.

starbuck brings up the "ogb is distracting" point again, which, as I said, is ridiculous.

ekim actually has some good points to say about the ogb situation. Here they are:

re: OGB. People typically use alt accounts because they want to be able to escape their meta and have an anonymous game where the usual perceptions of them don't apply. Using an alt so you can say "Hai guys, guess who I am??" is sheer wankery and actually fairly pitiful. That said, if OGB can pull his finger out and play in an acceptably pro-town manner, that's fine. If it he continues to play as if he's joined the game just to screw about then he can go hang, whoever he is. Can't allow scum to hide behind the "LOL IM A VI!!!" façade.

he also brings up a telling point against mufasa in that he doesn't have a vig, which could be used to test the role. Mufasa is seeming more dumb and scummy by the second.

rofl says mufasa must be town because he is inexperienced and stupid. While I sort of agree with this I also think that by the same token an inexperienced and stupid mafiate could also behave this way. Rofl also brings up the fact that the role jack of all trades is on the first page as evidence that mufasa is most likely telling the truth, but I would say it is slightly convenient/coincidental that he has one of the roles that has been displayed on the first page...without the ability that could prove it.

darkdude comes out of nowhere are says ogb and mufasa are town. No reasons given.

ekim brings up the distraction argument against ogb...
I was beginning to like him

Page 7

Saying stuff like:

we need to get back to lynching ogb.

^^^ lynch this guy now

Like there's some kind of open and shut case out there is not helpful

This is so true. The annoying thing is this sort of stuff is in so many games these days. It is not in persuasive in the slightest so I don't see the point of doing it anyway.

Rofl says:

ok, seraphim is plunging down the town charts and heading very quickly towards scum territory.

which is a close relative to the examples that axelrod was talking about before.
Essentially some reasoning would be nice.

Skitzer makes some interesting (read: scummy) posts in which he only looks at one side of the mufasa issue, states that we will have to lynch him eventually, and perhaps subtly implies he knows he is town in 173, although I am willing to let that one off with just odd wording.

In any case Skitzer has gone up in my scum rankings.

more later...

[ThAdmiral]

Page 8
Axelrod makes more good points against mufasa. At this point I am fairly certain mufasa is lying.

Caboose continues to defend mufasa. If mufasa comes up scum caboose has to be next. I normally don't like chain lynching but this one seems like a gimme.

Howard Roark votes korts "for his contrived case against seraphim". Another example of a completely subjective reason to vote someone, furthermore a reason I don't agree with at all. He doesn't use any points to back it up either.

Darkdude continues to be unhelpful.

Spyrex makes a few bold claims about people, some I agree with some I don't. Have seen him play like this before as town and have been getting town vibes off him in general.


Page 9

claiming out of the clear blue sky on day one before a serious wagon has even really taken off on anyone is undeniably stupid, and will bring the house down on your head.

This is true, but why does stupid = town? If Mufasa got a scum role, would it suddenly boost his IQ by a few orders of magnitude?

i mean, really, did anyone look at the EXAMPLE PMS provided with the ruleset? the name "jack-of-all-trades" is right there guys.

Yes, I noticed. I assume that's where Mufasa got it from when he decided to fake claim.

These are two zingers that summarize my stance on a few things in an overall very good post by iamausername.
+ town points to iamausername.

mufasa claims he did it all for reactions.

[ThAdmiral]

How pro-town do you feel that OGB is now that you've read the whole thread?

This is a bit of a loaded question. I think it is fairly obvious that ogb has not been pro-town, however I don't think he's necessarily been anymore anti-town than, say, a lurker.
Basically I think there was an overreaction initially to his first couple of posts, although I do admit that his continued unhelpfullness does not make him look good.

Whoever said he is trying to distract the town from scum hunting is ridiculous as its rather easy to attempt a guess at who he's and alt of/ignore him altogether and hunt scum at the same time.

I said this. I don't think it's ridiculous at all when all OGB is interested in doing is getting people to guess who he is. Playing guess the alt detracts from scumhunting, and I'd much rather quash OGB's mess before someone takes his bait.

You aren't the only one who has said it, so don't think I am trying to focus on you. But since you responded:
1. that's not "all ogb is intested in". Let's put it in to a bit of perspective: he asked a question that admittedly wasn't all that relevant to the game, but did so in the

random voting phase

, a period of the game that is debatable in regards to how helpful it is in determining scum from town.
2. how does it detract from scum hunting when you easily still scum hunt and just ignore his question?
3. furthermore who are these other people that you are trying to protect from "taking his bait". Do you think anyone in this game actually has taken his bait and has been so caught up in guessing who he is that they have been

completely unable

to scum hunt and therefore have put the town in a far worse position? Has anything even slightly resembling this happened?

(also is anyone else slightly amused by these people going on and on about ogb, saying we shouldn't get distracted by ogb, without irony?)

Mufasa claims joat really early. Why? Charter and seraphim then vote for mufasa. Even more why?

Because he claimed for no reason on page three. Since then, he's changed his claim to make it utterly useless for town two times. He's a distraction and detriment to the town and is either scum or a townie helping scum out. Either way, I want him dead, and the sooner the better.

True, especially the last bit.
But at the time his nefarious past and unhelpful nature hadn't been brought to light and it was quite reasonable to suspect he may actually be a pro town power role.
For example, if someone claimed doc early day 1 for no apparent reason, and isn't counterclaimed, should that person then be wagoned?

as I said before I think mufasa is lying and calls for him to be vigged are a bit silly given that we don't know whether there is a vig or not and furthermore he may very well be scum.

vote: mufasa

[ThAdmiral]

---Responses from page 10---

OK. I think active lurking is probably worse than lurking though, especially when done after being specifically called out for not contributing.

Fair enough. Just for the record what is your definition of active lurking as there are a few different interpretations.

He is still yet to show interest in scumhunting.

There are others though. Darkdude comes to mind.

It's a bit hard to say what would've happened in the counter-factual where his question wasn't immediately called out by several people as being a distraction and not worth addressing. Posts 32, 33, 34, 36, 39, 43, 169, 171 were discussing who OGB is. I think if unchallenged it could've been worse.

At it's worst I still don't think it would have given us all that much less information than a normal random voting phase. In fact since it ended the random voting phase I think this was very good for the town as actual scum hunting was able to begin very early. This was not, of course, his intention though, so he shouldn't be given credit for it, but if we are talking about simply actions and consequences you can't really say his action was anti-town.

I don't think he's a particularly informative lynch today, because he's such an easy target. There's a reasonable chance there's a vig in a game this size. What's the problem with him being vigged if he is scum?

No problem with him being vigged, but I would be happy to lynch him and I don't feel as strongly about anyone else.

1- Ok then, you tell me what else he is interested in except for voting anyone he can to try and relieve pressure off himself, because I sure as hell don't see anything besides trying to distract the town in his posts.

You admit it yourself that he is interestesd in other things. Like shamelessly jumping on bandwagons.

2- I know I can do both. I know there are many players who can do both. I know there are also many players who cannot do both and will get caught up in trivial things like that.

name one.

3- I do not believe this has happened to an unacceptable extent. I believe that the swift wagon on OGB shunned anyone who may have wanted to play guess the alt from doing so.

Fair enough. So since his actions were only theoretically distracting to people you are only theoretically suspicous of him?

For example, if someone claimed doc early day 1 for no apparent reason, and isn't counterclaimed, should that person then be wagoned?

Absolutely. Not all games have a doc. I'd probably want to lynch this person.

Agree to disagree.

Actually doc is a bad example as claiming makes that role useless. How about cop?

[ThAdmiral]

whats the difference between ogb and mufasa?

I think one is lurking a bit and said something that lead to some overreactions, and another one is almost certainly lying about something.

Starbuck - dont like this guy. Agreeing with rolf, charter and mike about ogb. Then, he has a weird stance regarding Mufasa. First he is quikcly to put Mufasa in the town territory. Too much for my taste.

Onto Mufasa, I don't understand why someone would claim on Day 1. It just makes no sense.

It just made him a Mafia target.

But then, he votes for him when the pressure starts to increase.

I am also in agreement on Mufasa. Something just doesn't seem right.
Vote: Mufasa

Good pick up there. It seems she's hinting at the fact that she knows mufasa is town in that first post.

in fact

unvote

,

vote: starbuck

I didn't see a point to Mufasa's claim unless he was trying to set up the town for the mafia, which is why I voted for him and why my vote has stayed on him.

Can you elaborate on "trying to set up the town for the mafia"?

I was actually thinking that scum would try to disguise their NK as a vigging. Wouldn't this point mufasa more towards town?

mafia generally do not pretend to be vigs as they are always eventually caught out by nk discrepancies ("why is there constantly only one night kill?") and also would then have to pretty much follow the town.

[ThAdmiral]

You seem really quick to jump on my bandwagon. Rather than just asking me the question below. Are you trying to protect yourself and your scum buddies populartajo and Mufasa?

Yes, obviously I am trying to protect my scum buddies populartajo and Mufasa.


Why mudsling like this?

I didn't see a point to Mufasa's claim unless he was trying to set up the town for the mafia, which is why I voted for him and why my vote has stayed on him.

Can you elaborate on "trying to set up the town for the mafia"?

It seems like one of two things.

1. Either he himself is Mafia and is just riling up all of us town, which he's doing rather well

2. Or he is what he says he is and just completely screwed us over because he doesn't care.


Either way, he's a target. He's either a Mafia target because he's not one of them or he's our target because he's not one of us (or is just completely anti-town). I'd rather be rid of someone causing such a ruckus for the town cause. Some others are getting better reads on other people than I am.

So you are for voting off unhelpful people even if they are town? I can sort of understand that, especially on day one.
Can you explain what you mean with "riling up all of us town"?

So I decided to unvote and wait and see what happens before I put my vote in again because obviously putting your vote in on one person and leaving it on one person while having valid reasons means you are complete SCUM according to you.

I don't remember saying this...

[ThAdmiral]

I don't understand why some think Mufasa is scum but not OGB or vice versa. Anyone care to explain?

Why do they both need to be the same alignment?