Open 111- Immunity Mafia: Mod abandon

[Magua]

/confirm

There's like 20 of us. I bet we can take this "mod" guy.

[Magua]

Vote: orangepenguin

for not having confirmed yet.

[Magua]

Vote: Magua

For trying to overthrow the mod.

Is there some reason you don't want us to get off this island before people start dying?

(/arches eyebrow)

[Magua]

Oh, I should get on this orangepenguin bandwag....oh, wait, started it.

Nevermind.

[Magua]

White Castle – 1 fluff post – last post Jan 30
Orangepenguin – 1 random? vote – last post Jan 30
Magua – 1 random vote, 2 fluff posts – last post Jan 29
Kieraen – 1 fluff post – last post Jan 30

Hi Jahudo!

I've been actively lurking -- that is, reading, but not writing, because so far just about every post everyone has made seems like mountains out of molehills, and I had nothing to add to them.

I don't think that saying "I don't like hamburgers" is a big scum tell. I don't think that putting out a FoS instead of a vote is a big scum tell.

Now, I can support the use of pressure to get people to talk, but let's be serious, here: we've got zero information to go on. What goes on today might be useful in future days, but isn't that useful right now, and I feel that Light-kun, DJ, Empking's Alt, and Dejkha seem to have the "putting people under pressure" thing under control. I see no reason to add to the conversation, since no one's tripped my "goon-O-meter" above 10%, which is nothing.

[Magua]

Im just saying. Town tends to act more "Scummy" than scum itself: Mainly because its always the scum calling the shots. If the scum is good enough, which i suppose it is, it can exploit other players weaknesses. Those players obviously have poor social skills. They will be lynched easily, because the town is so willing to lynch.


I can see where your coming with the zwet being my most likely partner, because earlier my suspicious list was based around his (minor) bandwagon. Thats it, isnt it?

I'm glad you posted this, because reading over the last four pages, I was getting to the point where I didn't care if Emp is town or not, and vote him just to make it stop. That's bad. I shouldn't do that.

This is basically fluff saying: "I'm not saying anything and you can't make me."

No, it's basically fluff that says "I have nothing interesting to say that hasn't been said before." I did say things -- that I don't find anyone overly scummy yet. The person I'm closest to lynching is Empking, and that's solely because of his tone, and nothing to do with its content. I could make a post that says, "Look, I think you all are a bunch of overreacting people turning molehills into mountains," but that''s hardly helpful, is it?

But if it would make you feel better, I could post such a post.

[Magua]

Questions for everyone:
1. Do you feel safe having someone at L-6?
2. Is it dangerous to add more even if you aren't ready to lynch?
3. Or are they not feeling enough pressure to care they're at L-6?

Yes, no, no.

But mostly I posted to

Vote: Empking's Alt

. I find zwet and Dej to be slightly scummy, but I find that I expect their arguments to make some sort of rational sense, so that if they start veering off, then that's a signal. That is, I can evaluate them better.

Whereas on Empking, after 19 pages, the only read I have on him is that he's abrasive and pedantic. I'm falling into the "I don't care if it's his meta" camp -- just like town shouldn't lie because it just confuses other town, stirring the mud up doesn't hurt the mafia nearly as much as it does the town.

[Magua]

Alright, I just need to throw this meta question out here.

Is having a sense of humor or being sarcastic a scumtell? Because if it is, I'm more or less dead.

I ask because I've seen some variant of this repeatedly (I'm not picking on dejkha, I just saw it a lot in his post, and it's the most convenient to quote from):

I say we lynch him, and then kick ourselves in the ass when we find out the asswipe was a jester =P

This is the second time he refers to a possible Jester when we know there isn't one. Not really a scumtell, but it doesn't hurt to show it.

Is this even a scumtell at all? It seems off topic and redundant, but I just wrote it off upon reading as a silly comment.

And

[White Castle] then votes me because I responded first and actually asks me "So what have you been doing that's scummy?" which clearly indicates he hasn't read a damn thing before the past few pages to see who is at the top of the suspect list.

This is in reference to White Castle's post #438:

Mod - does this mean I get three votes? afatchic, Brocktree, and ThAdmiral only get one a piece.

Since I didn't get a chance to random vote, I'll put a vote on Empking's alt or dejka. To make it interesting, I'll vote based on the first reply I get.

The "3 vote claim" is obviously in relation to the line above in which the mod wrote:

Not voting(6): afatchic, Brocktree, ThAdmiral, White Castle

In other words, a convoluted way of saying, "Mod, I think you miscounted the votes" (as it claims 6, but there are only 4 names). Again, off topic, silly, but scumtell?

Similarly, he says he'll vote based on the first reply, which was you. A stupid random vote. I can see calling him out on the stupid random vote at this stage in the game, but to extrapolate from that that he's fishing for the most obvious target is a huge logical stretch. He was just being flippant.

I don't know. Maybe I'm just overly sensitive after seeing the reaction to zwetschenwasser's "I don't like hamburgers" quote from the RV, but it seems like people are going bonkers over the smallest thing.

[Magua]

there's 2 scum groups, so I'm legitimately helping you against the other.

Seriously? "I'm helping you against

the other

"

Was that a freudian slip, or what! We now know what your alignment is.

Confirm Vote: dejkha

Seriously? Did you miss the "if I am scum" before that, or did you chop it out because it changes the meaning of the quote?

Selective quoting isn't pro-town at all.

[Magua]

I'm not going to hammer Dejkha. I'll leave that to the professionals.

The more that I read it, and the more that I think about it, I don't actually think Dejkha is scum. This whole bandwagon started with Dejkha making some comment that he would support scum who helped lynch other scum over townies who didn't.

You know what? I could get behind that. I don't care who's doing the scumhunting -- my goal is scum dying. Everything since then I think has either been blown out of proportion, or taken on the idea that somehow a scum could be "tricked" into admitting this, regardless of the fact that it's probably just personal philosophy.

It's been a hectic day one, that's for sure. I'm looking forward to a day two with just a teensy tiny bit more information...

[Magua]

@Magua: can you honestly sit here and say that his play style hasn't been at very minimum somewhat scummy since his bandwagon started?

Luckily for me, that's not what I said. A *lot* of people's play style has been at the very minimum somewhat scummy since the bandwagon focused. Just off the top of my head I could point out your edited quote, and your tunnel vision about Dej. But I'm not jumping on your wagon.

OK, so if lynching dej is a mistake, who should be lynch instead? I see your vote is still on Empking.

I'm not sure that lynching Dej is a mistake, per se. I think the reason his bandwagon took off is a mistake. As for who I think should be lynched: my vote is on Emp and is staying there. Dej provides context and things to analyze. Dej provides connections and things that can be refuted.

Emp provides none of these things. Emp provides noise. This isn't helpful, and if it drowns out the information, is downright harmful. The longer Dej gets to talk, the more we could potentially learn. The longer Emp talks, the more painful this thread becomes.

[Magua]

Hey, I talked today! =P

[Magua]

You kids, with your posts.

Empking's Alt seems to have quieted down since d1, so I'm not going to vote for him just yet.

A quick readthrough leaves me more suspicious of Brocktree than I was d1, but nothing I can definitely put my finger on.

Suspicious of Kieran for the "omg that sucks" post right after night, along with the syntax that Zorblag and Jahudo mentioned. It's not enough for me to vote on yet, though.

[Magua]

Post #912

Anybody voting for Empking's Alt or casting suspicion on Empking's Alt needs to realize that he has done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING overtly scummy (with the small exception of asking one player to stop using ad hom and then IN THE SAME POST he asked someone else if they were retarded... hypocrisy is not a scumtell in this case) and I would very much like to see someone - ANYONE - who has cast suspicion on Empking's Alt explain how and why he is scummy in-depth.

Post #920

I go, "Who's the most anti-town" every day. I don't know what you're saying here, Empking.

Sigh.

Why are people voting for zwet the mime?

Empking: Asking someone, "TOTALLY FOR SRS DUDE" if they are retarded is counter-productive.

Unvote: Vote: Empking's Alt

I find myself agreeing with HoScum. Empking needs to die.

[Magua]

Actually, now that I think about it a little more I think I'll advocate a mass claim now. There are 18 players in the game of which 5 are town power roles and 4 are scum. If no scum fake claim then we're picking from 9 today and 4 of those 9 are scum which is much better than trying to hit 1 of 18. If there is a fake claim then they'll have to claim either a protection or investigation role so we can use that to figure out which of those groups to decide who to kill which will again give us better numbers to work with.

No massclaim

There are 18 of us. 4 scum, 5 power roles, 9 villagers.

Advantages of the massclaim: Roleblocker(s) won't block town roles. We know if we have 2 watchers/2 trackers, 2 docs/2 roleblockers.

Disadvantages: Ninja has nothing to fear from watchers/trackers, so they get an easy chance to target the docs/roleblockers. Hitman has nothing to fear from doc/roleblocker, and so can easily target watcher (especially if only one watcher claims).

This isn't even getting into the notion of the scum fakeclaiming. What if we end up with two trackers and two watchers claiming? We would know one of them is fake...

No, I'd rather wait another day and be able to have people give two nights worth of information which would provide greater context.

[Magua]

After thinking it over, I'm going on board with this groupclaim thing. And since I haven't heard anyone come out against it (unlike with the mass claim), I think that I shall make my group claim in 24 hours unless someone does come out against it.

[Magua]

Four people left to claim: animorpherv1, Brocktree, magisterrain, Magua.

Vanilla.

[Magua]

So, tallying up the group claims, we have:

Vanilla (12): don_johnson, Empking's Alt, hohum, Jahudo, Kieraen, Kmd4390, orangepenguin, Wall-E, ThAdmiral, Caboose, Magua,

dejkha

Investigation (2): Zorblag, Light-kun

Protection (3): zwetschenwasser, killa nine,

White Castle

Unclaimed (3): animorpherv1, Brocktree, magisterrain

So of the 11 living players claiming town, at least two are scum. Given the original 4/20 setup, this isn't an improvement in narrowing things down. Interestingly enough, just about everyone who's had a lot of suspicion thrown at them has claimed vanilla, with the exception of zwet.

[Magua]

@Everyone not voting: Who do you think is scum?

Not enough information, yet. The last three groupclaims are very important for determining who might be lying (for instance, scum may have already claimed protection/investigation roles -- there's no way for us to verify without all the group claims.)

Much like in d1, I see a lot of votes being thrown around for silly and/or pedantic reasons. A lot of people were keen on lynching dejkha for making a post about lynching philosophy, and I'm reading more and more of that here.

That said, here's the populars who I'm not going to lynch at present:

1) zwet: Actually, my first choice to be lynched. However, unless more claims for the protection group come in, not someone I'm going to vote for.
2) Empking's Alt: I still don't believe that Empking is adding much useful to the town in terms of posts or content, but the volume of the posts has been turned down dramatically, making it much more bearable.

If I had to vote at the moment, which I don't want to do until the claim is done (or won't get done), is Kieraen. Not for the reasons you provide, which I'll be honest -- I don't buy -- but for his "that sucks" post at the beginning of d2, and the strange word choice, followed by a very odd-feeling defense. Gut feeling, mostly.

[Magua]

Nor am I.

[Magua]

Well, if we roleclaimed between two weeks ago, and now... no.

Don't roleclaim. Simply claim vanilla, a protective role (doc/roleblocker), or an investigative role (watcher/tracker).

There's 17 claims already. Not claiming at this point would be unwise.

[Magua]

Why vote after the hammer, don?

[Magua]

Why vote after the hammer, don?

you obviously haven't been paying attention.

Obviously not. By my reading:

Hohum is at L-3 in 1353 (Sunday, 9:48 am)
Dejkha (magisterrain) puts him at L-2 in 1359, (Sunday, 12:31 pm)
orangepenguin puts him at L-1 in 1361 (Sunday, 1:49 pm)
Light-kun hammers in 1375 (Sunday, 8:36 pm)

You change your vote to orangepenguin after the hammer in 1377 (Monday, 7:55 am).

So, why vote after the hammer?

[Magua]

Can you post the roles?

I want to see how they lined up with the mass claim.

(I 'twas really a vanilla townie.)