Open 111- Immunity Mafia: Mod abandon

[Kieraen]

confirm

[Kieraen]

Hi. I am just letting you know that as it is so early in the game, I am quite busy at the minute (GFs busy) and the other mafia games are priority due to their lateness. I will be posting this weekend. I am not lurking. Just not very free yet.

[Kieraen]

Thanks for your patience, havent had much computer time, and other mafia games are at more important stafes. But im here and god i have just sifted through all the posts.

I find most of what has been said a disucssion on playing styles as oppossed to any scumtells. I am however suspicious of Empking's Alt. He hasnt been helpful in scumhunting, he has been rude and tunnelled at dejkha, whilst not making substantial claims.

I am not sure how many votes he has, but he aint gonna get lynched yet, so I will put a pressure vote on him (something i firmly believe works). Answer dejkha's question or explain and present more suspicions against him.

Vote Empking's Alt

[Kieraen]

I disagree Empking Alt, There is no harm is sharing your thoughts, otherwise what is the point of being town? The only power we have is with our minds and voices.

You it would seem are using neither
therfore....you are probably scum.

[Kieraen]

Instead of constantly attacking perhaps you can answer some questions Empking's Alt?

[Kieraen]

Again Semantics. For all the arguments the game has had with with dejkha, he has answered questions, put down his suspicions and discribed his strategy. Whether we agree or disagree is not the point here.

You, on the other hand, have been evasive and aggresive, and though the case against you is not strong, your tone and style of play has made me more suspicious of you than of dejkha.

[Kieraen]

A post which was obviously not part of the game, that is nor a mafia trick nor a towntel, that is posted as an aside for amusement, is not an argument showing that he is a) a liar, b) mafia, or c)town. It is a pointless waste of our time.

[Kieraen]

Well done you win. Can't be arsed with this trivial argument.

I maintain my vote for Lynching purposes.

[Kieraen]

I don't think there is a massive argument against either DEJ or EMPKING.

I am perfectly happy to lynch someone who is typically anti-town in all his games, if we cant find a more definite case against someone.

dont forget...anti town playing is exactly that...anti town

[Kieraen]

It we cannot find another mafia, and you are impossible to read as town because you act anti-town, then it is logical that the least pro-town gets the lynch. I support lynching you til another,better argument comes.

[Kieraen]

If I can not vote against mafia I will vote in a manner that is pro-town, which for me is voting against someone who is egotisically pedantic, and refusing to answer questions. He has in my eyes also been scummy (not massively so), but this vote stays on him why he maintains his anti town stance. I see nothing scummy in what I have written. If you disagree with my logic vote for someone else.

The only argument which changes my mind on this point on this view is point c) of DON's 299 post where he argues lynching someone that is a null-tell on day one is anti town.

I agree with that view DON. However I will be maintaining the vote for the time being. He still hasnt answered the question who he finds suspicious, which may be his game plan, so then why bother DEJKHA over his gameplan?

am I alone in my suspicion of EMPKING?
Am I alone in not accepting 'its his META' as a reasonable explanation to his playstyle?
And if it is his playstyle to be like this, what benefit does it have to the town to have such a player.

(This vote, rated for intention to lynch comes only at 5/10. I am suspicious of EMPKING, but not lynch worthy yet. in fact I said if no better suggestion came along.)

[Kieraen]

My point is don't vote against me cos you disagree with my vote, vote cos you think Im scum.

[Kieraen]

But I do have suspicions against him, which I have stated. I feel his avoidance of answering questions is scummy. Others have said he he is always aggresive and anti town. I don't feel his Meta is important here. Its his responses in this game, and they have made me more suspicious.

Anyway, I dont have any super case against him. His attacks annoyed me as well as a little scumminess so I voted and I stand by that.

[Kieraen]

hello afatchic!
Don't vote for me cos i said hello first!

[Kieraen]

Im so confused. Why is their now an EMPKING and an EMPKINGS ALT?

[Kieraen]

Vote count please mod

[Kieraen]

And where do I figure in your list of suspicon dejkha?

[Kieraen]

I don't know. Maybe I'm just overly sensitive after seeing the reaction to zwetschenwasser's "I don't like hamburgers" quote from the RV, but it seems like people are going bonkers over the smallest thing.

Like Magua did in Last of the mohicans...man did that guy flip.

[Kieraen]

oh and dejkha, I will be posting more thoughts soon. Ive been quite busy (evening work this week) and the other mafia games i play are at more critical stages. Im not lurking just nothing significant to contribute. Ill promise a reread with my thoughts this weekend.

[Kieraen]

Hohum is totaly tunnelling on Dejkha.

Hohum states dejkha is nitpicking,
I say he is anaylsing.

Hohum states dejkha is flooding the forums,
I say that dejkha is totaly involved in the game and defending himself, opening up with his opinions.

Dejkha says if he was scum
Hohum says "dejkha says he IS scum"

Hohum says dejkha is totaly anti-town.
I say at least some of what dejkha is doing is pro town.

I have seen very very little argument against dejkha except his FOS. This was perhaps a mistake from dejkha (or a scumtell), but i do not see a case from this.

I am beginning to see a case against hohum however.

[Kieraen]

If it wasn't this is.

VOTE:DEJKHA

Its time to end day one.

[Kieraen]

You know ZORBLAG i agree with you, thats been my read. You wrote a post that clarified my thoughts better than others have. Lets not forget that two sets of scum groups may well be working together with one or two townies in them.
My own reasons for voting for dejkha were that I got a bit fed up with his cluttering of the pages and voted on him due to frustration and wanting a day one end, but overall i don't think he is that scummy. Id much rather see HOHUM lynched. I see him as trigger happy optotunistic and quotes peple out of context.
Ladies and gentlemen, he is our scum.

unvote

unless he says something real scummy (or ive missed something) than you wont get my vote again.

[Kieraen]

No what Im saying dejkha is i was frustrated with the game, i allowed a snap decision to influence and voted accordinly. IO admit a mistake and retract my vote. I have seen scummy tells from Hohum more than others, and so I say id rather he was lynched. You can suspect me all you want, but i have no fear in admitting a mistake.

Your attack of me is strange. Have you got this strange tactic of taking one for the mafia team? divert attention by being blatantly scummy so your scumbuddies can attack you and look innocent?

Hmm, I find your instant attack of me for holding my hands up for a quick thoughtless voting unhelpful mainly for yourself.

[Kieraen]

In fact bugger it, Thats my theory now (post 727). He's looking for a lynch lets give him one.

VOTE:dejkha

is that L-1 again?

[Kieraen]

Ouch, a difficult night. No ideas yet need to reread game, but from memory I don't see too many reads from those kills.

[Kieraen]

Oh shit yeah, Or.... Perhaps Whitecastle was incredibley unlucky!
DOUBLEKILLED! (OOC would it tell us if he had been double killed? like stabbed and shot??

[Kieraen]

Nah I also meant the lynch. I need to read through the game as I havent noticed anything about WHITE CASTLE, or why anyone would kill him, but then thats WIFOM. When I am scum, I randomly kill for no tells.

And the whole DEJKHA lynch is going to be a difficult one to get reads from. He made himself seem so scummy to many people (not so much myself til the end) that Im not sure where to begin.

[Kieraen]

Please don't put translations or words in my mouth. It was just a filler comment no more no less. To be honest, Im not fully in the mood for a game but all my games are on day breaks (or slow) so just couldnt wait to comment and say something.

[Kieraen]

There are a number of logical fallacies you can use. It doesnt mean they are correct.

[Kieraen]

I know those are words, and I know they should form a complete thought, but I feel like I'm reading utter nonsense when I read your last post.

Look.

Logical fallacies are irrefutable.

You addressed the issue of your NK commentary by saying, "I was excited." I would have accepted that, but you had to tack on an appeal to emotion. It tells me you're either A) unconfident in your assertion or B) something else. If it's something else, you're town.

Another logical error you've made is when you said, "To be honest, Im not fully in the mood for a game but all my games are on day breaks (or slow) so just couldnt wait to comment and say something."

You are not in the mood for a game but you want to comment fruitlessly?

Yes, Not my best play ever, but yep. Just wanted to say something

[Kieraen]

Hohum? when you say Wall E is trying to set up another mislynch does that imply you know my allegiance?

[Kieraen]

Cos im bored. But i havent got time to read through the game (gf is pestering me to go to bed). Just thought I would say something.

[Kieraen]

I think the same reason as me....boredom and wants to the game moving again.
The alternative Wall E is extremely scummy looking? HMM?

[Kieraen]

Okay back from a V/LA weekend in amsterdam.
Anyway, woah I made a big stink. I promise you that sentance was an innocent mistake. I read the "wow that sucks" game theory today and my comment totaly falls into that catergary.
Just wanted to show im still involved say something and go...newbie mistake. Anyway i have no theories, except that probably the people talking about scum tactics and teamwork are probably accurate. The scum probably want to appear to be working together, but double cross each other. But i don't know how talking about town tactics will be beneficial to the town. This just allows scum (with townie interjections) to freely talk about tactics.
The one benefit i see is that the more discussion the more potential to see scummers. I.e. the people suggesting a tactic rather than discussing it. Maybe its a bit long winded, but perhaps there are mafia putting feelers out to see how the other reacts? Hmm need to reread that conversation for more concrete thoughts here. And also for suspects.

[Kieraen]

@hohum, oops, yep your right. Didnt think of that. One point though. If the mafia have a general feel of what the town as a whole thinks the mafia should do then maybe they will start assuming that this is beneficial for themselves...?

I have no idea what verbal diareha i have written. ignore the above sentance. lol Ive over thought that whole situation.

I maintain my vote against EMPKING

VOTE:EMPKING

He hasn't been at all beneficial to the town. I agree with Hohum on this one. This guy is seriously anti-town.

[Kieraen]

my name is crap for scum jokes....

proves im innocent!

[Kieraen]

I agree Hohum didn't say that.

I also agree with Hohum on this, it's day two and he (EMPKING) still isn't any benefit to the town.

How long should we wait for him to scum hunt? Who looks forward to having him in day three scumhunting with you?

[Kieraen]

Post 980 was a fairly useless post.

Give evidence that I'm not useful.

This question is deeply subjective, and its an example of (don't know the exact phrase) an absence word.

"Not useful", (ie, useless), doesnt exist!
It doesn't exist in the same way that cold, dark, hunger, boredom, silence and sobriety do not exist. They are all words that describe the absense of something that does exist, namely heat, light, food, interest, noise and alcohol.

You can't find 'darkness', because its both subjective (one mans dark room is anothers well lit room) and because its a relative word describing only the absence of light.

By the same token, how can I or anyone else possibly hope to find when you have been "not useful"? How can we find something that doesnt exist.

A far more useful question, which I will ask you now (you lover of quotes, you!),

Can YOU give us evidence of when you have been?

[Kieraen]

Mod vote count please.

[Kieraen]

where's 3? lol

Empking, your best defence would to build a comprohensive case against someone.
How about you make a post with more than 10 words in it.
You may have some valid points against Zwetschenwasser but I am struggling big time to understand when you quote and quote and quote, with five words 'explaining' your reasoning.

[Kieraen]

perhaps QFT hohum? lol

[Kieraen]

No to Massclaim

Wait til tomorrow.

[Kieraen]

I dunno....Im becoming tempted by a mass roleclaim now, before tonight. Zorblang your argument is certainly compelling.

I am against it because of limited information after night one but considering the kill rate of three per day (two NK's and a lynch), perhaps it would be better now.

I am doing a full reversal after your last post ZOR and say

YES to roleclaim

[Kieraen]

@Empking, Most useful post you have made. That sounds a better idea than mass claim.

Wall E. From the logic displayed from Zorblag, do you seriously think he is that stupid? I get the impression he knows what he is talking about.
If he was a role fishing mafia I doubt he would be so blatant.

[Kieraen]

Vanilla townie.

[Kieraen]

DEJKHA, isn't it enough we lynch you once.

Aww go on then, let 'im back in!

[Kieraen]

This game is dieing. I for one find that it is becoming dominated by ZWETS, DON and WALL E.

I'm just gonna cofirm vote. Maybe we can get back on with scum hunting, and hopefully the reminaing townies will soon post with their role group.

confirm vote:EMPKING

I don't like how untown freindly has been, and he has not contributed any scum hunting at this point.

I also feel that we need to hurry the game along. Yes we are day twqo but I think we should try and move ontop day three now as I can't see any new info coming along.

[Kieraen]

Its frustrating waiting for poeple who don't seem to wish to play anymore.

Who exacty are we waiting for? I say we replace them.

[Kieraen]

sorry I'm terrible at this terminology.
I mean villagers not townies, though in trueth the chances are they will claim townie anyway.

I don't mean any disrespect to ZWETS, DON or WALLE.
It just seems a personal argument, but hey! while no one else is posting post away.


I am also completely for a policy lynch on non-informers or role groups. I think this would actualy gives us a good chance of catching a scummer.

[Kieraen]

but incorrect.

If DON in particular checks my META, he will see I do this in other games, using TOWNIE to desrive the villagers as a whole. Its an unfortunate slip, unfortunetly I am still new and have consistenly done this in all my other games. Consider this the moment when I correct that mistake.

[Kieraen]

Thanks for your fairness DON, especialy considering our run in another game.

[Kieraen]

I think we should auto lynch the people who havn't claimed, but for no now move on, with discussion.

This game has totally stopped, which is disappointing as it is interesting, and while we wait for all this claiming nobody is being pushed.

So my suggestion runs like this. we push the mod for replacements (if we still have a mod maybe we need to replace the mod as well).

For no we continue with the discussion, perhaps beginning with a top suspect post. Discuss why we are suspicious against someone, try and persuade the town.

Otherwise this game is in danger of becoming boring.

What say ye to this idea?

[Kieraen]

This happened to me in a beginners game, which ended today. It was really hard to get the game back up and running, and I don't know how we will continue this game with its complex rules if we havent got a back up mod.

[Kieraen]

I have seen Hohum play in another game. He can play in quite a scummy manner, but has advocated policy lynches as well. His Meta shows him to basically be good at scum hunting and good at looking scummy.

Saying that he and EMPKING would still be my first two lynch targets.

[Kieraen]

Vanilla (12): don_johnson, Empking's Alt, hohum, Jahudo, Kieraen, Kmd4390, orangepenguin, Wall-E, ThAdmiral, Caboose, Magua, dejkha

Investigation (2): Zorblag, Light-kun

Protection (3): zwetschenwasser, killa nine, White Castle

Unclaimed (3): animorpherv1, Brocktree, magisterrain


So any of the townies is a good bet for a mafia or two.

so what are we talking about? 2/12 chance of a good lynch. Mafia groups will also have a nice chance of catching some opposition scum also

[Kieraen]

I'm gonna put my neck out and say hohum or empking.

[Kieraen]

There isn't a conclusion because there is no completion.

There are at least two scum in the vanillas.

Our best chance seems in voting there.

[Kieraen]

unvote, Vote Hohum

I'm happy with a lynch of hohum. He came in looking pretty as a townie then misquoted dejkha and started tunnelling and playing bad townie.

[Kieraen]

Its hammertime.

Can't touch this....!

[Kieraen]

you can claim now. The mod is giving you that chance.

[Kieraen]

lol sounds like mad scum.

I worked in new york two years ago and all the teenage kids on camp said that something was MAD this and MAD that. Oh I miss your MAD new york accent.

[Kieraen]

oh like angry. oops. well...as you guys over there say....my bad.

[Kieraen]

Vanilla townie.

Apprently my tactic was to play really scummy!
(oh dear another game I haven't won. Thats 7 games now with 5 loses and two abandons. Whats the record for worst start to a mafia career?)

[Kieraen]

apologize if it's someone else I'm thinking of, but I remember seeing a sig that was like "0-10 lol" or something like that.

The small writing...


At the minute I think I'm heading this way, I'm in a game (not this site) heading for defeat).