Open 111- Immunity Mafia: Mod abandon

[Jahudo]

/confirm

[Jahudo]

I'll start to work on a raft, but in the meantime

Vote: White Castle

[Jahudo]

Any comments on any players you do or don't find scummy, Brock?

Why are you asking someone else to do this when you have not done so yourself? And why did you single out Brock for this question?

[Jahudo]

Because then theyll ruin any sort of trap i may set for them. When its just suspicions, fine, i personally dont like scum list though

I think you were originally asked to say who you found suspicious so why did you start talking about hand and traps? It sounds like suspicions and showing hand are different things to you. Doesn’t that defeat the purpose now that you’re talking about strategy?

I'm not sure of the vote count right now, so I'll stick with FOS: Zwet just to be safe.

This makes me think he wants to vote, but since he is not sure of the vote count, he’ll stick to a FoS just to be safe.

I’m wondering if dej does not feel strong enough in his suspicion because otherwise he might count the other vote changes from the mod’s last vote count only two pages ago.

This also makes me wonder how close he’s reading the game at this early stage because a bandwagon large enough to make you reconsider before you join might throw up red flags so that you question the people on that wagon as well.

Actually voting right now won't accomplish much if it puts him at L-6…

I disagree. Voting helps spur discussion when it’s used for pressure because the defense can see they’re life expectancy shorten with each mod post count. FoS does not do that.

I only make a serious vote when I feel it's necessary. I'm not gonna vote for someone with the little information I had on Zwet.

This does not look like the same sentiment from his FoS zwet post. It looks like backtracking.

unvote

Vote: dejkha

[Jahudo]

@Dek:

3) A FoS shows how suspicious you are just as much as a vote this early with this little evidence. As I've said about 5 times, I didn't know he'd be at L-7 and even if I did, a vote wouldn't do much.

The only thing I don't understand is why you said:

FOS: zwet just to be

safe

.

With the key word being safe. What did "safe" mean precisely?

@Don:

on the surface, it may look like a harmless statement. however, given the fact that preceding this zwet had voted whitecastle, it takes on a different meaning altogether.

I don't understand the "different meaning" you have made out of "I don't like hamburgers". All I can see is a hamburger joke for a random vote on a name (White Castle) that's associated with hamburgers.

@Brock:

@Jahudo: I dont understand what your saying....

Ok, I think I understand what you mean by hand and alot of your opinions about withholding all your thoughts sounds like playstyle tendencies which is fine. I just feel that the town plays better when the members of the town are more open.

[Jahudo]

why did zwet feel the need to "expand" on his joke vote?

How does that lead to a "different meaning"? It looks like a joke, something multiple people did here and do in other games. So I didn't feign understanding because I actually don't understand why it's important.

I wanted to be "safe" because I didn't know what the vote count on him was. I don't want to place a serious vote on someone so early, especially if he's already close to being lynched.

Which to me implies that you considered voting if you liked the number of votes that were already on him.

At the same time it sounds to me like you never intended to vote, because you said this:

I'm not gonna vote for someone with the little information I had on Zwet.

So it's odd to me that you would have to consider voting or not if you felt you didn't have enough information on him to consider voting.

[Jahudo]

Let's put it this way. If he didn't have any votes against him, and I knew that, I might've voted for him. I say "might've" because one vote of 11 would just be a "because I can" vote since it would have almost no effect.

I think I understand why you did it but I'll probably still disagree with the tactics behind it. More votes to me means a better chance to get an authentic reaction from the defense, and more votes means the possibility of opportunistic scum to push a pressure wagon to a lynch wagon.

why did you feel the need to explain?

So it's just about him explaining or even rationalizing a random vote? I can understand why you'd bring that up if that's what you thought. I wasn't sure if you thought his "I don't like hamburgers" was intended to make other people join an anti-hamburger bandwagon.

We should hear more from these people:

White Castle – 1 fluff post – last post Jan 30
Orangepenguin – 1 random? vote – last post Jan 30
Magua – 1 random vote, 2 fluff posts – last post Jan 29
Kieraen – 1 fluff post – last post Jan 30

[Jahudo]

I disagree with Empking's Alt's logic and reason for voting dek. If someone doesn't give opinions on what's happening, they are hindering the scumhunting process and looking opportunistic if they jump on a lynch wagon all of a sudden.

[Jahudo]

Empking is always an anti-town bastard, even when he's town.

Do you have a meta on him? Can you explain this more?

[Jahudo]

@zwetschenwasser: Can you explain how you went from saying this about Empking:

In most of the games I've seen him in, he acts that way… I'm inclined to not find that scummy, therefore.

To voting Empking in post 308? This seems like a very quick turnaround but Empking did have a few posts in between yours.

I’m still trying to wrap my head around Light-kun’s 285 post where he talks about trues and falses. I’m not as interested in finding pairs yet because scum can buddy to town early and I would rather look at the individual and find scum within them, not the outside which could be misleading.

Hey, i dont want to break up your guys party, but isnt it at all interesting that focus switched from dek to emp so quickly?

Considering several players were not posting until recently and not all of the players who had been posting earlier were in agreement on the dek case, I do not see this as unnatural.

Well, working from the theroy you are scum, your scum buddies save the day, kill emp, and then NK someone else to make you look less incriminating.

This post (276) in general has a lot of speculation and not much of a sample to go on. It treats the dek wagon seem more seriously than it was IMO. The case against dek was not and is not strong enough for a lynch and other cases should be considered concurrently.

Well, Zwet and Emp are Obvscum. Which is why im ignoring them. Over at WF's, where 70 percent of the playbase for mafia is downright retarded, you have to look beneath the surface. Otherwise youll spend have the game lynching the retards so you dont have to deal with them later. Do you know how many free kills mafia can get off of that? Alot.

I’ll agree with that based on my own experience, but I wouldn’t ignore any “too scummy” behavior. And I wouldn’t tell people I’d ignore it because that just allows them to continue to behave as such, or pardons scum from making an outrageous scumtell.

This thread is a mess, the town is not acting in unison and in my experience when the town is having a difficult time finding focus, it's usually the people who are providing the most amount of misdirection that flip scum.

I’ve been thinking this as well, but there are 20 players in this game. However I think it’s possible that some of the scum are trying to clutter the thread to disjoint any rhythm that 16 townies try to make, which makes me suspicious of the top fluff posters. For me that’s zwet and ani so far.

We need to hear more from White Castle, magisterrain, animorpherv1, Zorblag, and afatchic when he catches up.

[Jahudo]

unvote;

Vote: Empking's Alt

Why are you now talking as two people? Why have you made that mistake 3 times now?

To me this reads like you don't have this game straight with any others you may be playing. Compounded with the fact that you keep asking for quotes from people in a game you should be reading, it sounds to me like you aren't reading and I don't think town would make accusations if they aren't reading.

[Jahudo]

Is Caboose having a conversation with himself?

[Jahudo]

Duuuuuuuuuuuude......

Mafia: The game where the politicians DONT want your vote.

Focus and contribute to the actual discussion if you are going to post. These are fluff posts that anti-town people use to look active.

For now I'm going to Vote: White Castle.

If he gets replaced before he starts posting, which seems more and more likely to me, who among the active do you find most suspicious?

I said "scum hunting isn't necessarily a priority." in response to Light saying town shouldn't care if they look scummy. I also added a "But that's just me." 'Necessarily' being the key word that changes the meaning of the sentence than if I didn't say it.

I am of the opinion that town shouldn't focus on how they look because if they die they can still win; that finding scum is most important and survival comes after that. However, it is possible to have your own form of strategy for playing the game. Why do you think "necessarily" changes the meaning if the meaning is still to diminish the role of town as active pursuer of scum?

I think we're pretty safe here, he should be hovering around L-4 or L-3 right now

I did a quick read for bolded votes. dejkha and Empking's Alt have 5 votes a piece. That makes them L-6.

Questions for everyone:
1. Do you feel safe having someone at L-6?
2. Is it dangerous to add more even if you aren't ready to lynch?
3. Or are they not feeling enough pressure to care they're at L-6?

(^--me: yes, no, probably)

[Jahudo]

You got all mad at Hohum for switching his vote: I find that a shit case.

Is that enough to make you vote? Why aren't you voting yet?

About me: I don't like non-voters when there are bandwagons getting closer to L-1 because a non-voter only needs a weaker excuse to hop on than someone already voting for who they already think is most suspicious.

[Jahudo]

Re: dekha's post 445. This effort and analysis looks like genuine scumhunting to me. He is looking for connections and forming opinions from them and to me that looks pro-town. He's defended his early FoS hold the vote on zwet well. I still do not understand his tactic for making a case but not following through to a vote but I do not see inconsistencies in his statements that are scumtells.

did anyone keep track of how many people jumped back on dej after my vote?

Let's see:
1. don_johnson votes dejkha in post 415
2. hohum votes dejkha in post 416 (opportunism yes, but not a scumtell since he had previously said both dej and his prior vote were of equal scummyness)
3. White Castle votes dejkha in post 439 (opportunism yes because he didn't give a valid reason since we are clearly out of the RVS)
4. Light-Kun revotes dejkha in post 442 (he had been voting before you too so it does count as opportunism)
5. Empking's Alt votes dejkha in post 443 (he had been suspicious of dej for most of the game)

I don't think there is anything questionable about the vote on dej after dj added his vote.

I wouldn't be that shocked if it turned out that the most vocal members of the game were town and that the scum are laying low and letting the town tear itself apart with with lots of largely useless noise.

It seems likely to me as well but we can't ignore the vocal players. In my experience it's often beneficial to use your power role (typically investigative or blocking) on a player you have no read on. It's sometimes easier to create a judgment on someone that rarely posts than reaffirm a judgment on someone that posts alot.

Is having a sense of humor or being sarcastic a scumtell? Because if it is, I'm more or less dead.

Is this a question for everyone? I would say no, however I think that posting for the sake of posting is not pro-town when you don't add anything constructive or serious. And sarcasm may need instant explanation because some people might not read it that way.

Question for Jahudo: What was the point of those three questions?

Sometimes a day ends with a hammer before other players are ready, or some people join a lynch reluctantly just to get a lynch through. Knowing how people stand on the accumulation of votes can help determine how genuine they're reactions are once a wagon has reached that hammer. My questions might prove nothing, but I don't see how they hurt.

Otherwise, I have no opinion.

Are you caught up with reading or does "I have no opinion" mean you need time? I can't imagine how you'd have no opinion if you've read some.

[Jahudo]

Mod: Can you prod magisterrain? He hasn’t posted in 8 days.

I try to make it so my playstyle cant be judged for future reference.

Do you mean future reference in this game? Like a couple days down the line? If so, why would town be worried about that? If you are town you can afford to be transparent. It’s only scum that wants to conceal their intentions. And I believe this is separate from power roles; it’s more of a town/scum thing.

Stop arguing with him. It's pointless and he's just going to keep bombarding the thread with replies until you go away.

Would you count this towards Dejkha’s lynch worthy scumtells? I wouldn’t and don’t agree in this case anyway.

Speaking of selective quoting, dejkha seems to be doing a lot of that, and he's OMGUSd me twice now in one page.

See posts: 492, 483, and in between.

I don’t think those are examples of OMGUS. OMGUS is when the sole reason you vote someone is because they voted for you. Dejkha is voting for you, yes, but I have other ways to interpret it.

Post 483 – This looks like Dej is setting Hohum up for suspicion if he is lynched and flips town (or scum and wants to setup Hohum in the other scum group). The next day Hohum would be looked to as someone who kept the wagon from derailing, which is inaccurate because his comment came after several votes and even after Dej believed his own lynch was likely.

But Hohum told Brocktree to stop encouraging Dej to post, so he is trying to discredit Dej's words to the point that people aren't listening (appeal to authority). So I'm saying this tell goes both ways.

Also, Hohum’s assumption could be a false argument because town are more likely to post more if there are under pressure, because they are forced to convince people that they are town.

Post 492 – Dejkha votes hohum because he did not read or post the entire quote. This looks like a reasonable vote from Dej, because Hohum pushed a Confirm Vote on him due to a misread on Hohum’s part and it misrepresented Dej.

I also think that Dej's scumminess is starting to look quite small when compared to someone who just keeps posting with, what appears to be, the sole intention of flooding the thread with nonsense.

Just a few posts ago you thought Dej was scum and said you were keeping your vote on him. How has Dej looked less scummy or is it more a case of Emp looking more scummy? Why are you focusing on Emp now? Do you disagree with Brocktree who said Emp has slowed down the unnecessary commentary?

[Jahudo]

I think it's 6 votes for dejkha, 5 votes for Empking's Alt, and 4 votes for zwetschen. There's a few strays not on any of these three wagons.

[Jahudo]

Anyway, you seem to be arguing more of "I am scumhunting, so keep me around" than "I am not scum". Seems off to me.

Interesting take on the situation. I mostly agree with Zwet’s argument because we cannot depend on scum to kill the other mafia as a priority over finding town PR’s or getting rid of the most pro-active town players. There’s a chance that cross-kills could help us but with only 4 scum to get we should be trying to lynch them first and depend on night second. Dej is not helping the scum hunting process by continuing to respond with his stance on this strategy.

I don't mind lynching him after finding some points against him in that hohum scuffle, but I do not like the idea of ending day 1 with so many no reads. Afatchic, ThaAdmiral, magistrain and animorph need to post.

If it wasn't this is.
VOTE:DEJKHA
Its time to end day one.

This is opportunistic. Where did you show previous opinions that dej looked scummy? You’re last few posts make it seem like you think he’s town. And I hope you were joking when you thought you had just placed a hammer.

[Jahudo]

Jahudo, I am not agreeing with Dej. I think we lynch the scummiest player regardless of their scumhunting skills. Note that my vote is still on Dej.

Right. I was just acknowledging that you have an interesting take on what Dej could be doing. It's possible that he is trying to sell us on his scumhunting ability instead of his townieness. IMO, he'd do better to just bring forth more cases.

I will still not vote Dej until I am satisfied from the level of participation from the people White Castle just mentioned in 687.

Where is our mod anyway?

He just posted a half-hour ago.

[Jahudo]

afatchic 2 19:49
animorpherv1 3 3:27
magisterrain 9 4:03
Magua 2 3:50
ThAdmiral 3 13:42

If one of these people is scum, I would not be surprised if their partner was influential in speeding up this lynch before they could get prodded or replaced. It's hard to find connections when certain people never talk.

[Jahudo]

With 19 alive, it takes 10 votes to reach a lynch.

You mean 18 alive right?

Ouch, a difficult night. No ideas yet need to reread game, but from memory I don't see too many reads from those kills.

I can understand saying "those kills" to also refer to the dejkha lynch because this is the first time we can talk about his alignment flip. But Kieraen, why did you say it was "a difficult night"? What did you expect to happen at night? Isn't 1 nk better than 2? Are you counting the lynch as part of night?

Who found WC interesting yesterday? Was someone mildly rolefishing as to WC's alignment? Who did you notice paid attention to WC's actions? These questions are for everybody.

Going over his posts I noticed that WC suggested the RB not use their power the first night. Someone may have guessed his role from that. WC has some suspicions on brock and hohum, and Caboose reacted to a small WC comment, so WC could've been killed in an attempt to make one of those three look more suspicious. Or he could've been killed to make us consider the WIFOM of who he found suspicious and if that makes them more suspicious. So I don't think it's important.

Also, I'm pretty sure there wasn't a doublekill.

Is this just a feeling? My feeling is that the ninja and hitman almost certainly sent in the NK's because of their added power. Since the hitman cannot be stopped by a Doc or RB, they had to have targeted WhiteCastle. It's possible that either the ninja targeted WC too or was stopped by a Doc or RB.

Also, if you watched WC last night you would have seen the hitman; if you tracked someone to WC, they might be the hitman or a possible pro-town role. I'm not advocating claiming at this point if you saw something though.

[Jahudo]

Vote: Empking's Alt

My feeling yesterday was that his asking for quotes showed he hadn't been reading the game or cared to read back on his own call into question anything being brought forward. Most of his posts were just distracting and disjointing the group effort.

These people also look suspicious to me:
hohum
don_johnson
orange penguin

These people need prods and/or replacement:

animorpherv1 - lurking for the past 9 days while posting in other games. Needs a prod.
afatchic - lurking for the past 8 days while posting in other games. Needs a prod.
magisterrain - flaked from the site. Needs replacement

I didn't think Dej was even scum when I hammered. I was like 75% positive he was town.

So were you more concerned with ending the day or were you hoping on being wrong about Dej?

[Jahudo]

Vote: Empking's Alt

My feeling yesterday was that his asking for quotes showed he hadn't been reading the game or cared to read back on his own call into question anything being brought forward.
with ending the day or were you hoping on being wrong about Dej?

Asking for quotes is not a scum tell.

No it isn't, but people usually ask for quotes to clarify what they have found by reading and analyzing the game. I don't see where you are reading or analyzing.

[Jahudo]

@Mod: I think you have two lists going for votes on Empking's Alt.

Jahudo is voting me due to asking for quotes. Its not a strawman.

No. I'm voting you because the extent of your understanding of, and participation in, this game looks like its limited to OMGUS.

[Jahudo]

The chic is pissing me off at the moment.

He's getting replaced. That's what the last post count said anyway.

@Light kun: But why are you voting for afatchic? He's posted twice and they were just fluff posts. Granted, he's posting in other games, but I don't see a tremendous case against him that is indicative of scum behavior. Anti-town =/= scummy.

[Jahudo]

Do you know what OMGUS is? I don't think you do.

Your hohum vote looked like an exaggeration of outrage because you went back to kieran pretty quickly after that.

what's wrong with pressure voting a lurker?

Nothing at all. I was calling Light-kun out for hypocrisy in denouncing empking pressure for the very similar reason he was supporting afatchic pressure.

[Jahudo]

I thought that the admittance made it less scummy.

Oh really? I couldn't tell you thought that because you seemed to say the opposite:

Do you see how he changes his vote for every little thing? It seems like constant OMGUS' with him. It's like he's trying to get lynched.

You don't think fake quotes are scummy?

It looks like you're pushing that hohum's fake qoute is scummy even after you unvoted him. Where did you say his admittance that he was wrong made it less scummy, other than your unvote? Why did you vote hohum, not pressure him at all, then immediately drop your vote? It looks like insincere outrage.

Can you give me a definition of OMGUS.

Voting someone primarily because they voted for you. I'll admit that I used an inaccurate terminology to describe the suspicious thing you did. But you still did a suspicious thing. I just need a better word for it.

[Jahudo]

kmd: if you were reading you would understand my vote on jahudo.

You didn't respond to my response:

Nothing at all. I was calling Light-kun out for hypocrisy in denouncing empking pressure for the very similar reason he was supporting afatchic pressure.

[Jahudo]

RE: johnson: pressure votes are fine.

I never said I supported a policy lynch over a scum lynch.

Yes, he never did. Zwet what are you getting at?

[Jahudo]

Not here, J Merrell. Try the game queue: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=4

[Jahudo]

MOD: Can you prod Magisterrain, Zorblag and animorpherv1?

[Jahudo]

You are quite mistaken in your generalization. I'm posting uselessness at the present merely because this STUPID DISCUSSION ISN'T GETTING ANYWHERE!!!

So you admit to muddying the waters with useless posting? How does that help town?

I see we've got a new replacement who will have to go through our 40+ pages and maybe bring up some old stuff. I'm gonna do a re-read too and come up with better cases.

unvote

[Jahudo]

No massclaim

We don't need to make the hitman or ninja even more powerful.

/goes back to reading

[Jahudo]

Massclaim on day 2?
i vote no.

@Mod

can we keep this fucking douche bag from posting in games that he doesn't belong to?

What are you talking about? He's one of the replacements. Pay attention.

[Jahudo]

After looking at the dej lynch I feel that at least two votes stand out as questionable to me:

orangepenguin

His scumhunting is good, as been pointed out, but his earlier cautiousness to voting Empking after providing a case, and his consequential reactions following the original votes on him have been scummy. He is at L-2 now with my vote, but I think he's the scummiest player out there right now.

This is the only post where he acknowledges dejkha and he votes dej to L-2 here. The reasons are legitimate but they are also old and re-hashed opinions from other people. There is no questioning the case or dejkha, just agreement. It also took orangepenguin 11 days to form this opinion during which he had five posts not acknowledging the dejkha bandwagon that had already formed. In my opinion his vote looks opportunistic and easy to fake as scum.

--------------------

Kieraen

No what Im saying dejkha is i was frustrated with the game, i allowed a snap decision to influence and voted accordinly. IO admit a mistake and retract my vote. I have seen scummy tells from Hohum more than others, and so I say id rather he was lynched. You can suspect me all you want, but i have no fear in admitting a mistake.

There was no logical reason for Kieraen to vote dej back then because Kieraen never found dej scummy then and even defended dej against Empking and hohum. This statement by Kieraen does not look like AtE or anything suspicious if it ended here, but it didn’t.

Your attack of me is strange. Have you got this strange tactic of taking one for the mafia team? divert attention by being blatantly scummy so your scumbuddies can attack you and look innocent?

Hmm, I find your instant attack of me for holding my hands up for a quick thoughtless voting unhelpful mainly for yourself.

The taking one for the mafia team doesn’t make sense because Kieraen still has not shown any reason to find dej scum. And the speculation on why dej was submitting to his own lynch was WIFOM at this point, so saying he’s taking one for the team is pure speculation and lacking in evidence. But this becomes Kieraen’s reason for voting dej and it’s not a valid reason. It looks like Kieraen took dej’s “attack” as an opportunity to jump on the bandwagon and push it to a lynch.

I believe dej was right to question Kieraen’s initial vote because it was clear that Kieraen did not have any reason to place that initial vote.

Kieraen’s votes looks opportunistic as well as faked so,

Vote: Kieraen

[Jahudo]

The group claim sounds better than a massclaim or PR claim.

PRO:
- unlikely that scum will fake claim since we know how many PR’s we have.
- narrows down lynch candidates and practically confirms 5 town.
- unifies town discussion (something we need)
- docs and watchers could target PRs
- RB and trackers have a smaller field of possible scum

???:
- The hitman group wants the investigators dead (3 people) and there is 1-2 watchers that could target other investigators to try and catch the hitman scum so either a 33 or 66 percent chance the hitman kill fails.

- The ninja group wants the protectors dead (2 people) but if there are 2 docs they could target each other and stop the ninja scum. If there is 1 doc left he targets the RB and the ninja scum has a 50% of getting stopped.

- Scum could be forced to target vanillas. If we limit our lynches to vanillas or scum posing as vanillas, and they only kill vanillas, then the number of RB and Tracker targets decreases to the point that a kill could be stopped and scum is found.

CON:
- hitmen and ninjas could act selfless and target the PR's they know they can bypass. Unlikely since they're playing against each other but likely if the scum think they can scumhunt the other scum group before the other scum group scumhunts them.

- As we start to lose vanillas, the scum have a better idea on who the other scum team is than the town does, favoring the first CON point.


I agree with Zorblag that more people should give it serious thought. I'm willing to admit it could work and sounds more fun and team unifying than what we've got now.

[Jahudo]

Empking: What are you talking about? What do those quotes have to do with anything? Do you support the idea of group claiming or not?

[Jahudo]

Hohum, mind contributing something not blatantly scummy?

Where did this come from? What page?

[Jahudo]

Vanilla

[Jahudo]

I think Don has a legitimate accusation in Zorblag answering for Wall-e (post 1118) before giving Wall-e the chance to defend for himself. I don't think Zorblag is scum because I believe his claim for now.

zorb's persistence in pushing for the claim to occur before any votes or discussion takes place seems like he won't be content until he knows what everyone is.

I can understand this addition to his vote but now that's its done we should wait to see who else claims investigation.

I don't think Wall-e saying "I cannot believe the town is pushing this" means anything. It doesn't look like a slip to me. It sounds like a disagreement in semantics and nothing more.


Four people left to claim: animorpherv1, Brocktree, magisterrain, Magua.

[Jahudo]

Yes, replacement please for the flakers.

[Jahudo]

I think the point is Wall-e asked DJ if his Zorblag vote was serious. DJ responded "Do you think it's serious" which is a deflection. Then a couple of posts later DJ says "Yes it's serious". Then a couple of posts later Wall-e said "he didn't answer the question" and was referring to that original DJ post of "Do you think it's serious?".

I have a mild concern that DJ withheld his answer initially but then he gave that answer without pressure from Wall-e so I don't think it's very dismissive.

------

Brocktree's last posts here: Feb 23
Brocktree's last site post: Feb 23

animorph's last post here: Feb 5
animorph's last site post: Mar 1 (it's mostly Mish-Mash I think he abandoned all of his mafia games) Still big

FoS animorph

magisterrain's last post here: Jan 30
magisterrain's last site post: Feb 2

These all look like flakes, not scummy, but we need replacements if we're going to get anywhere today.

Mod: What's the status on replacements?

[Jahudo]

I think we have enough to go on for now and we shouldn't wait for replacements that might take a while to replace in and catch-up. Besides there's 11 claimed vanillas that most likely contain 2 or more scum.

I think this is the vote count:
-----
Kieraen(2): Zorblag, Jahudo
hohum(3): Kmd4390, zwetschenwasser,
zwetschenwasser(2): Caboose, Empking's Alt
Empking's Alt(1): Kieraen
Don_johnson(2): orangepenguin, Wall-E
Wall-E(1): don_johnson
-----
Not voting(9): Killa Seven, hohum, Brocktree, ThAdmiral, animorpherv1, Magua, magisterrain, Light-kun
-----

The pool of vanillas and/or scum:

don_johnson, Empking's Alt, hohum, Jahudo, Kieraen, Kmd4390, orangepenguin, Wall-E, ThAdmiral, Caboose, Magua (and two of animorph, Brocktree, magisterrain).
-----

@Caboose and Empking: Why are you voting zwet? Do you think he's fake-claiming?
@Everyone not voting: Who do you think is scum?

I am voting for Kieraen for opportunistic voting day 1. He reversed his opinion on Dejkha completely without any prior reasoning. He looked jumpy by voting without reason, unvoting when called into question, then revoting basically on OMGUS:

I find your instant attack of me for holding my hands up for a quick thoughtless voting unhelpful mainly for yourself.

It looked like he was forcing a reason to revote the viable lynch target.

Also post 514 looks like he's trying to keep his options open to voting whoever loses the argument between hohum and dej. Post 724 correlates with this theory because he dismisses his dej vote as "frustration" and that his real suspicions were on hohum the whole time. It looks like backtracking.

[Jahudo]

what exactly are you suggesting? how is an incomplete group claim which outs towns power roles "enough to go on"? sure, someone in the vanilla area is definitely lying, but by moving forward without completing the claim you are giving the three players who didn't claim a free pass. this statement is scummy in that you seem to be implying that we go ahead and lynch someone. vote, pressure, sure. but to ignore the late claimers and not wait for replacements to catch up only benefits scum. my vote is out there, yes, but we should not be lynching someone until the claim is finished.

I'm not suggesting that we lynch someone now, we're not even close to that. I'm saying we shouldn't just sit and do nothing because it might take a week or two to get our replacements in and caught up. I think there's a good chance for at least 2 scum in our pool of 11 vanillas and we shouldn't give

them

a free pass by shutting down the scumhunting operation.

I said nothing about lynch and I said nothing about ignoring magisterrain, animorph (who I FoSed) and brocktree. I'm trying to mention them and get the mod's attention that some people haven't posted in months. I realized the replacement request hasn't been put in yet and even when it does not many people are going to replace into a 48 page game and catch up that well or soon.

[Jahudo]

Well, considering you guys told me this last night after i got off the computer, and that i have school to do before getting on, well, my window of free time is not that big. Im working on it, okay?!?

It doesn't take that much time to write a short post once every three days, especially when most people here are writing short posts. Were you just have V/LA issues?

let's get dejkha back in here and find one more person bored enough to read 50 pages and let's get this show on the road.

[Jahudo]

animorph and magisterrain. It's been over a month since either posted so I doubt they'll just come back. I already asked the mod about putting a notice in the replacements thread. Dej should replace one but we've got to wait for 1 more.

[Jahudo]

animorph and magisterrain. we've been talking about it last page. where have you been emp and hohum?

[Jahudo]

Can we not talk about the mod's activity and talk about lynching hohum?

dammit. i'm convinced. who can argue with that logic?

unvote, vote: hohum

I sincerely hope this is a joke.

Light kun, who are you referring to in this post? Zwet, DJ, or both?

[Jahudo]

For one we'll know if anyone counter-claims a PR group.

[Jahudo]

Brocktree already claimed FYI.

[Jahudo]

Magua and Caboose need to be prodded

Animorph and magisterrain need to be replaced

k thx

[Jahudo]

unvote, vote: hohum

hooray! why are we voting hohum again?

DJ: You were already voting for hohum. So the question you should be asking is: Why did you vote hohum in the first place? And why did you forget who you were voting for?

FoS: DJ

Vote Count

Kieraen(3): Zorblag, Jahudo, Light-kun
hohum(7): Kmd4390, zwetschenwasser, don_johnson, Wall-E, ThAdmiral, Empking's Alt, Kieraen
zwetschenwasser(1): Caboose
don_johnson(1): orangepenguin

Not voting(6): Killa Seven, hohum, Brocktree, animorpherv1, Magua, magisterrain

With 18 players alive, it takes 10 votes to reach a lynch.

[Jahudo]

@Dejkha: Who did you replace?

I've been suspicious of hohum ever since his actions against dejkha day 1 but I'm not sure why some people are voting him. I'm okay with the pressure though.

I think it's pretty clear what the last person will claim since there's 1 PR left open.

[Jahudo]

I find it suspicious that the last time hohum spoke he only had 2 votes on him. Even though I also found him suspicious day 1 I feel it went too fast and there were a lot of hoppers. But at least we'll have alot to talk about tomorrow.

Power roles note that animorpher doesn't seem to have a replacement yet. He is almost certainly an investigation power role.

Investigators are: Zorblag, Light-kun, animorpher
Protectors are: zwetschenwasser, killa nine

[Jahudo]

@Wulfy: Are you replacing animorpher?

I just looked at the list of live players and there's a "Sipylus" in this game? Did he get replaced and the mod just forgot to note it on the front page?

ThAdmiral replaced him well over a month ago. That first post isn't accurate it seems.

[Jahudo]

The mod might've left already for V/LA. We can use this time though.

@Hohum: What were you?

[Jahudo]

I was vanilla. That's too bad this got abandoned, it looked like it could have been an interesting game after some night reveals.