Me too. If I'd thought he was at L-1, I totally would have hammered. If anyone deserves a policy lynch, it is Puta Puta, and that would be an awesome way to enter the game.Xylthixlm wrote:I thought he was at L-2... we clearly need more frequent votecounts.
OK, the first thing that strikes me as notably suspicious in this game is this here massive false dilemma set up by THE GUY I REPLACED. Thanks, Sobeahero.Sobeahero wrote:And my reason is more then he's picking on GC, my reason is GC would be a good target for scum to eliminate if he's town.So basically I'm deciding if he's more likely to be town, or if you [Battle Mage] are. I'm much more inclined to lynch you though, since that will at least show GC isn't aligned with you. Though sadly if you flip town we effectively learn nothing.
Now, obviously, voting before you've finished catching up on the thread is not a standard anti-town tell, but I think the core argument, that it is easy for scum to jump on someoneOhGodMyLife wrote:Shanba wrote:Yeah, but is that actually scummy?OhGodMyLife wrote: Oddly enough, I agree with BM. GC undermined his own argument in the process of writing it.
The flaw in his reasoning could have been an honest mistake, but there's also a good possibility it wasn't(its very easy for scum to jump on a standard anti town tell such as voting no lynch), and its light years better than a random vote. The random voting stage does exactly zero for forward momentum.
What on earth gives you the impression that Puta will do something as helpful as claiming?Sir Tornado wrote:Hammer without a claim? Why would anyone want to do that?
That's one way of putting it. I would say that "after Puta claimed cop" would probably be a more accurate way.killa seven wrote:very next post after the puta heat dies down.
Please note the words "while OGML is away". I have every intention of returning that vote to him when he's actually going to be around to respond, but in the meantime, I figured that adding to the "stop killa seven lurking" drive was a better use for it.killa seven wrote:he immediately switches to me when a wagon forms on me.. saying his vote on omgl isnt going places.. really 2 days.. and you didnt even push.
It might not be showing up on your screens, but there is totally a disclaimer here saying that this is assuming OGML does not immediately post a fairly convincing explanation for his Sir T vote upon his return.iamausername wrote:I have every intention of returning that vote to [OGML] when he's actually going to be around to respond, but in the meantime, I figured that adding to the "stop killa seven lurking" drive was a better use for it.
Yes it was. You might have added further justification later, but you originally voted for Sens based entirely on this. That is the part I have a problem with.curiouskarmadog wrote:it wasnt just that(and it was stated VERY clearing so I am not sure why you are over looking that)
Why not vote? Nobody was remotely close to a lynch at that time, so how, exactly, was it reckless?curiouskarmadog wrote:What I found scummy about Sensfan, a lot had happened since Page 1, knowing that, why vote? It was reckless.
If he had instead just pointed out his suspicions from the first few pages, without voting based on them, would you still be saying this?curiouskarmadog wrote:I felt like he was trying to look like he was doing something (voting after the end of every page of his read) without really doing anything.
Under normal circumstances, I'd agree, but Puta Puta was a troll who joined games specifically to fuck with them. It's entirely possible that he didn't even read his role PM, and even if he did, I doubt his choice of claim had any particular connection to it.Sir Tornado wrote:No, No, NO. That would be the worst play EVER.iamusername wrote:As far as Claus goes, we're all agreeing to completely ignore Gimbo's fuckery and give him a clean slate, right? I'm pretty sure that is the way to go.
Yeah, Fonz posted a message to that effect when the site was briefly back up, but everything posted in that time got lost.Seraphim wrote:I'm guessing the deadline is going to be moved to the site being down for a few days?
I know it's not there any more, but what was this for?OhGodMyLife wrote:Vote: Militant
This point is good too.Shanba wrote:But I don't like the "I'm still sure Seraphim is scum" thing after the lynch (that was why I just read your posts in isolation.) It's indicative of an attempt to renege responsibility: it's Seraphim's fault, not yours.
Srsly. I know it's pretty much impossible to deal with this kind of thing in a way that's fair to all sides, but this really doesn't seem like the most fair resolution. If having mod-confirmation on a cop who almost certainly would have been treated as such anyway (considering he claimed a truthful guilty result yesterday) is really that unfair to the scum, can we, like, get a random vanilla townie upraged to a cop, or something?Xtoxm wrote:No, I think it's ultimately quite shit, we've still lost a town player we shouldn't have, and a cop too. Plus I saw him basically as confirmed anyway.
That you have excuses for not making a substantial post in two months does not change the fact that you made no substantial posts in two months. I misrepresented nothing.SensFan wrote:Of course.iamausername wrote:You do realise that your post history in this thread is freely available for all to view, right?SensFan wrote:Nice misrep on that one.
What you didn't mention is that I was gone from the site for about 2-3 weeks in that timespan, that we've had two nights, and that we've had a day that lasted a little over a week (iirc) in which it would have been anti-Town to post any opinions on anything, since we had already decided who to lynch.
That last part is alsoprecisely whyI asked Claus for his result before I posted who I felt was scummy.
And that's a good thing how?Ectomancer wrote:If I ignore Sensfan he will go away, if he bothers to post about the topic again at all.
My guess would be that both mafia groups were told there was a traitor around, but not who it was, and they could try to recruit one person each night. I'm not sure what his win condition would be prior to recruitment, in that case, though.Adel wrote:is anyone familiar with the "unrecruited mafia traitor" role? how do you suppose it works?
I think I need an ultimatum like this to motivate me, because taking over a week to read 21 pages is just ridiculous.Xylthixlm wrote:I have a proposal: If SensFan doesn't have his post done within 24 hours, we lynch him unconditionally. Fair?
I can't tell if this is sarcastic or not.HowardRoark wrote:Nice partner-finding technique; I'm putting that in my pocket.iamausername wrote:I read Natirasha in isolation, and I feel confident in stating that tubby is not part of the Florida mafia. Also ctrl+f'd "Nat" with all living players in isolation to see if anyone had any hugely incriminating interactions with him, and I can't say there's anything particularly solid there.
Huh, I remembering seeing this question, and I thought I remembered answering it, but I guess I didn't. I've had a town read on tubby since way back, and Nat trying to get him lynched on D1 doesn't seem plausible as distancing. It's that simple.HowardRoark wrote:Instead of a response we get . . .vollkan (1279) wrote:Any specific reason?iama wrote:I read Natirasha in isolation, and I feel confident in stating that tubby is not part of the Florida mafia.
What's amazing about it, exactly?HowardRoark wrote:This enitre chain of events is amazing.iamusername (1283) wrote: Unvote, Vote: SensFan
Weren't you supposed to be posting some actual content, oh, a week ago now?
I was intending to vote after I'd finished rereading. I was also intending to finish rereading a lot sooner than never. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.HowardRoark wrote:Where's your vote? Nowhere.iamusername (1536) wrote:I don't remember why OGML stopped looking scummy to me later on D1, but from where I'm up to, I remember why he started.
Yeah.HowardRoark wrote:Where's that progress? Nowhere.
Actively lurked, I can't argue with that charge. Lost focus on OGML, you are right, and my reasons for doing so were really dumb. If I wasn't playing like utter shit, I suspect I'd have spent most of this day arguing for his lynch.HowardRoark wrote:iamusername has actively lurked quite a bit of this game, followed some obvious wagons, and lost focus on his main target OGML.
This is really a very good point. From his post history, it looks like he was only in one other game at the time of this statement (Dictator Mafia, where he was town).HowardRoark wrote:If he were pro-town he would have played as such or requested replacement due to his RL schedule. (He said that he asked for replacements in all of his other games except this one.) He is a scum and he wants credit for pulling off this gambit!
This isn't. How does not noticing Claus result indicate that he'sHowardRoark wrote:Post 1313: Another promise to post useful content, but hasn't noticed Claus's positive result on magisterrain. Oh wait, now he does and votes (two RL days later) in 1319.IMHO, this is the most profound evidence that he isn't just busy, but is lurking scum!
Just so I'm clear, are you suggesting that this post makes tubby more likely to be purple scum?HowardRoark wrote:Very interesting!tubby216 (1353) wrote:i'll hold my breath watch as i turn purple.
Why am I not on this list, Adel?Adel wrote:I want Der Hamer, Carn Carn and HR dead by tomorrow.
I've highlighted a couple of points that I find particularly relevant. magisterrain in particular was one of the most important votes in making Seraphim the lynch over Der Hammer. I think he's our purple scum.The Fonz wrote:Seraphim (11): Claus, curiouskarmadog, Der Hammer, Natirasha, vollkan, Hoopla, OhGodMyLife,, Yosarian2,magisterrian, Shanba, militantXtomx
Der Hammer (7): Xylthixlm, Seraphim, tubby216, Elmo, skitzer, Ectomancer, Iamausername
OhGodMyLife (2): farside22, Sir Tornado
Tubby216 (1): SensFan
Not voting: None
Who are you talking about here? The only people who weren't already voting for either Der Hammer or CarnCarn were Der Hammer and CarnCarn themselves, and I'd think their positions on the matter would be fairly obvious.Adel wrote:competing wagons force lurkers to take a position.
I'm still utterly failing to grasp what point you're making here.HowardRoark wrote:The amazing chain of quotes there was the focus on curiouskarmadog that when pressured to provide evidence that tubby216 was part of the Florida mafia, you ignored it and switched presure to SensFan.
Is there any reason for this besides it working as an explanation for why OGML never killed Der Hammer?Adel wrote:I suspect that The Fonz didn't use symmetrical scum teams in this game.
With two cops, it seems likely that godfather = inv-immune, though. And I'm pretty sure it wouldn't mean inv-immune AND nk-immune, considering how frequently I've seen The Fonz bitching about how unfair it is to give both to SKs.Yosarian2 wrote:Well...mafia doctors are possible, but if there's a failed vig kill, it'd be more likely it was on a nk-immune godfather, especally since purple mafia had a godfather.
Which one of me, tubby and Adel was actually voting Der Hammer at the end of D5 (and also D1, for that matter)?Yosarian2 wrote:Iamusername's der hammer vote yesterday seemed was pretty key, but it could have been bussing.
Well, if we're all doing this, I'm having trouble seeing one that doesn't include Yosarian.Adel wrote:I'm having trouble imagining a scum group that doesn't include Der Hammer.Yosarian2 wrote:Still, I think the lynch today is either Iamusername or Tubby; I have trouble coming up with a probable scum group that dosn't inclue one of them.
How would you go about engineering that choice, exactly?Adel wrote:tubby -- if you are town and I were scum I would lynch you at lylo. I would engineer a "choose one: tubby or Adel" choice for the other players, and I would beat you by being more active and more experienced at lylo.
I think the fact that he, you know,Yosarian2 wrote:a situation where it looked like he was probably going to be lynched no matter what you did.
What about tubby?Yosarian2 wrote:Adel attacked Der Hammer almost constnatly, and at one point almost turned a Carn Carn lynch into a Der Hammer lynch pretty much on her own. That's why I think your vote could be a bussing vote, and I think it's less likely her behavior was.
I agree that Adel is probably not scum with DH/Seraphim. I think tubby is town. That leaves two possible pairs, and both include you.Yosarian2 wrote::eyebrow: Oh? Preytell?iamausername wrote:Well, if we're all doing this, I'm having trouble seeing one that doesn't include Yosarian.
If Seraphim is scum, Yos is obviously his partner, y/n?Adel wrote:I'd much rather lynch Seraphim. His continued greater level of activity in other games just re-enforces the scumminess of Der Hammer's lurking and miller claim.
What part of this isn't equally likely to have come from a scumgroup that doesn't include me?Seraphim wrote:I think possibility 2 is more likely because it was unclear who OGML would vig that night. There was plenty of suspicion to go around and killing a suspected vig as soon as possible was probably the optimal scum play. Then, they could push whoever was left alive after the night.Adel wrote:@Seraphim: which possibility do you think is more likely?
1. OGML was killed to setup iamausername
2. OGML was killed by a scumgrup that includes iamausername
Massclaim's done, what are you waiting for now?Yosarian2 wrote:I'm actually pretty close to voting Iamusername right now, because the odds of him being town are small; I'm mostly just waiting for the massclaim at this point.
I'm still finding the wording a bit confusing, but I think the gist is that killing the obv vig would be a much more pressing concern for the scumgroup than setting anyone up, regardless of its members. Is that right?Seraphim wrote:Sorry, this didn't translate well. I think it's more likely that you are scum than you were set-up to look like scum today due to the large amount of targets possible to look like scum. OGML was the obvious vig and killing him was the optimal play.
I was asking Adel. I think we can all take for granted that your answer to "is Yos Seraphim's partner?" would be 'no'.Yosarian2 wrote:Um...if Seraphim is scum, you seem like a pretty likely partner to him, considering your behavior in general and the timing of your vote on him, Iamusername. Same is true if Tubby is scum or if Adel is scum.
No rush, I'm just wondering why you said "I'm actually pretty close to voting Iamusername right now" when that was apparently not true.Yosarian2 wrote:I'm in no big rush; this is lynch or lose, after all, and most of the town is being frustratingly quiet; I want to get reactions out of everyone, try to get as much information as I can. Why, what's your rush?Massclaim's done, what are you waiting for now?Yosarian2 wrote:I'm actually pretty close to voting Iamusername right now, because the odds of him being town are small; I'm mostly just waiting for the massclaim at this point.
In the second round, I thought we were going to lynch whoever came out of it with the most points. When the time came for me to give my points in that round, it was obvious that there was zero chance that that was going to be Yos or Adel, so giving points to either would simply be throwing away my influence on the vote. I gave two to Seraphim, one to tubby, because I suspect Seraphim more than I suspect tubby, and I suspect tubby more than I suspect myself, and we were the only three lynches on the table.Adel wrote:iamausername abandoned his Yos2 wagon more easily than I expected.
Why would scum Adel necessarily have to targettubby216 wrote:well i really don't think adel is scum, cause if adel was scum adel would have already built a pretty nice case agianst me and i would have already been lynched. But since no such case has been made and i still exsist in this game adel must be town.
Uh. Look, I don't know, maybe I saw "total of 30 points", thought that sounded wrong, didn't read the rest of the sentence because I was too busy working out that it was? I honestly have no idea how I managed to spot the error without the whole thing registering. That's really dumb. But seriously, why would I lie about that? What's the point? What the hell do I stand to gain from it?Adel wrote:weren't you the one that pointed out my math error?iamausername wrote: Had I realised the existence of the point threshhold at that time,oh yeah, you were.iamausername wrote:5 players * 3 points * 3 rounds = 45 points in total, not 30, no?Adel wrote:6. since there are a total of 30 points, 16 points represents a true majority.
vote:iamausername
"forget everything else about it" is a huge stretch. I knew that everyone would be assigning a total of nine points each across three rounds, and that they could only assign a maximum of two to any one person in any round, and that the order of who would give point when would be decided by dice rolls and blah blah blahAdel wrote:he was thinking carefully about it, weighting options, but forgot everything else about it...
I was the second to last person to assign my points on round two, and Yos was last. That means that Adel, tubby, and Seraphim had all gone through two rounds without any of them giving a single point to Yosarian. If the point system was going to be used to decide the lynch there wasAdel wrote:He just rolls over and is willing to lynch Seraphim.
Adel replaced in on N4, so we're only looking at yesterday here. I'm looking through it, and I don't see anybody chomping at the bit to get a tubby wagon going. Adel did, in fact, vote you, before she'd read the thread and apparently in a semi-joking manner. Ectomancer voted you. No one else showed any interest in a tubby lynch. I'm not seeing how that constitutes "tubby wagon was ready and waiting, and just needed a little push from Adel to tip it over the edge".tubby wrote:the point is i was and every day that hasn't been a cop outing a scum i have been considered for that days lynch, it doesn't take much to get a tubby wagon goin, its like dollar days at walmart everybody runs to that sale.
When and why did you change your mind about this, Adel?Adel wrote:@tuby, I'm thinking that you are town. I normally wouldn't tell you, but I think that there are only a few of us left, and we need to work together.
Same reason they'd want to bus any other time. To throw the town off their scent.Yosarian2 wrote:That's weak, Adel. Why would scum want to bus in lynch or lose?
I thought tubby was saying that he thought Adel was town because if she was scum, she'd have got him lynched on D1. The fact that Adel wasn't in the game on D1 seemed like pretty pertinent information in that situation.Seraphim wrote:This sounds like flailing...it's trying to discredit an argument by pointing out one part instead of the entire post.iamausername wrote:Adel wasn't even in the game on D1, though.
You "suppose" he's saying? So do you agree that tubby's meaning was not clear?Seraphim wrote:I suppose what he's saying is that if Adel was scum, she would be attacking him like crazy, which may have some validity to it.
If you think he's my partner, would you be willing to vote Yos today?Adel wrote:I theory has you and iamausername settling on Seraphim or tubby for today's lynch for the win.
Or maybe you'd do something different, and then hold up the fact that you're not doing what you did to Sens as proof that you must not be scum here.Adel wrote:tubby is right. Unless I am scum with him, I would probably do onto him as I did onto SensFan in mini 650
You kept on digging up every minor infraction you could find faster than he could respond to them all to create an overwhelming sense that he was 'proven' scum.Adel wrote:how would you describe the process by which I lynched SensFan?
Harder than it would have been to lynch Der Hammer or CarnCarn.Adel wrote:How hard would it have been for me to lynch tubby?
That's delightfully vague. And if you still think he is town, why did he get more points from you than anyone but Seraphim?Adel wrote:tubby's playstyle is changing. He is evolving into a general lurker. I still think he is town, but I am less confident than I was when I first replaced in.
Adel wrote:I have not compiled a meta on iamausername yet.
What gave you the impression that I am "hard to fool as town in end game", if not meta analysis?Adel wrote:the same reason I nk'd you in mini 650 -- i think you are hard to fool as town in end game.
I'd like to think I'd be a bit more subtle than that.Yosarian2 wrote:Anyone else read this as "Hey, I'm scum and I think I'm going to get lynched today; let me see if I can link myself to Yos here so my real partner can manipulate Adel into voting for Yos tommorow"?
iamausername wrote: If you think he's my partner, would you be willing to vote Yos today?
So you were testing to see how easy it would be to form a wagon on tubbyAdel wrote:To see how strong his wagon could get. I consider him to be the easiest person in the game to lynch, and I was curious who else was willing to place points on him. You bit.
Well, I don't know how you came to the conclusion that I'm hard to fool in endgame, because I think I have been more often than not, but otherwise, this makes sense.Adel wrote:The meta I built on you for 650 that game was for you as town in endgame, and powerrole tells. I knew you weren't scum (since I was) so I looked at your town games.Adel wrote:I have not compiled a meta on iamausername yet.What gave you the impression that I am "hard to fool as town in end game", if not meta analysis?Adel wrote:the same reason I nk'd you in mini 650 -- i think you are hard to fool as town in end game.
Which you know is not going to happen.Adel wrote:sorry, missed it. Not especially, but I am willing for someone other than you to sell me on the idea.@Adel:iamausername wrote: If you think he's my partner, would you be willing to vote Yos today?
Welp.iamausername wrote:But one thing this exercise has shown is thatif the scumteam is Yos/Adel, town is screwed.That's a pretty big concern right now.
