Mafia 88- Return to New Catania- Game Over!

[Seraphim]

Vote: Hoopla

for not liking it when people talk to each other about important game issues.

[Seraphim]

Vote: Hoopla

for not liking it when people talk to each other about important game issues.

FoS: Seraphim

I think you just missed the point entirely. Opportunism much?

BM

...I'm getting FoSed already?

I finid it odd that you're calling me out for being "oppurtunistic" for jumping/starting a bandwagon for a possible in-game reason, when stuff like that happens all the time in the random phrase for absolutely no reason at all. Sure, my logic may be faulty, but why call me out for it now, during the part of the game that tends to just be silliness?

[Seraphim]

...is this a trap?

Unvote

because I actually don't think Hoopla was scummy?

>_>

<_<

This feels like a trap.

[Seraphim]

Hey, sweet. Read(and further reread) completed! And guess what? I have a major problem with SensFan's logic and an ever greater problem with Puta Puta. Before I delve into that, though, I think it would be best if I cleared up any sort of confusion I created back in the beginning of the game.
When I put down my vote, I assumed that Hoopla's quote...

Don't like this. Although the random voting stage isn't particularly vital,

it can often help jumpstart conversation, get reactions going, etc.

This vote provides no information to the town that can be discussed later.....

had meant that he didn't like conversations. When BM laid down the FoS, I tried to figure why the hell he was putting on me; why wasn't my vote valid? I couldn't figure it out, so I made my post afterwards. BM offered to retract his FoS if I unvoted, and since there must be a reason for it all, I unvoted. Then I realized why I was under fire from BM about it; he was quoting that to say that he was

trying to fish for reactions

. So now I'm beating myself up because I caused trouble for myself because I was too daft to realize that Hoopla voted No-Lynch to fish for reactions.

Now, SensFan, I really don't like the entire idea of 'he voted No-Lynch, let's lynch him'. I can see where you're coming from, but since then, he hasn't done anything remarkably scummy. I also don't like how you're changing your vote around as you read through the game. Clearly, I'm not the only one who has a problem with this. However, I don't find it as scummy as some of the others do.

But I have a definite problem with Puta Puta. Lurk, much?

zomg i totally forgot about this thread O_o

Um...cool? How many other games are you in?

"Ye gods, it doth amaze me,
A man of such a feeble temper should
So get the start of the majestic world,
And bear the palm alone."

This post bears little or no content that actually pertains to anything. Unless you can explain how it does?

Yes, let's all vote SensFan.

Why? This is your first post with content that pertains to the game and it is incredibly...scummy? It's pretty much saying "Let's all vote SensFan for no reason without me actually voting for SensFan at all!"

Vote: Puta Puta

Obv lurker scum.

[Seraphim]

i have posted i have been reading i have nothing of substance to post, untill something pops up that i need to adress i prefer to stay out of the way

I don't like this either.

Unvote, Vote: tubby216

[Seraphim]

So, what have I missed?

Arguments about game theory mostly. Also, Yos has compiled a list of lurkers and one has openly stated that he won't post.

i have posted i have been reading i have nothing of substance to post, untill something pops up that i need to adress i prefer to stay out of the way

[Seraphim]

Screw it, i'll post it anyway.

Non-Contributors

Puta Puta – Deliberately lurking. Has been seen on site, in New York Forum, but not posted once.
GeorgeCarlin – 2 posts so far-both full of content, but silence for the last few days. Poorly reasoned opening vote-construed to look like more than a random one. I kinda like the way he is watching people who follow his vote, but his reasoning for this is again poor.
Xyzzy – Playing for time. Lurker.
Sensfan – Responded to Prod today. No other posts.
Panda – Not posted thus far. Either absent, or lurking.
ZTR – Seems lazy. Hasn’t posted any content so far. Not sure if he intends to play for the full duration.
Natirasha – Random Self-Vote. Unlimited V/LA since then.
Killa Seven – Posted once-no content. Fairly standard for him.
Tubby – Made a random vote, and has been legitimately V/LA since.
Militant – Nothing insightful so far. Has been nearly active enough at this point and legitimately V/LA, but promised comments and has not delivered within his self-imposed time limit.

Unvote, Vote: Puta Puta

BM

When did you make this list? Nat has since returned and tubby has made several comments pretty much confirming that he is a lurker who needs to be lynched. Militant has also made several comments and is participating. Sensfan has posted quite a few times. Are you reading this game, BM?

[Seraphim]

Yeah, I'd carry a Tubby lynch through. Strategic lurking, which is what tubby is doing, is either awful town play or scum tactics to avoid a read, both of which are lynchable offenses.

[Seraphim]

Because Tubby is a better lynch?

Nah, j/k. I could go with either at this point. I hate self-proclaimed lurkers.

[Seraphim]

Unvote
Vote: Puta Puta

Now that the other lurker has posted content, you must post content or be lynched. Your posts have been pointless.

[Seraphim]

Um...Sir T? Didn't I answer your question...? Hold on, let me check...

Oh. I didn't.

The main reason is because
A. I wasn't sure at the time why I was being FoSed
B. I had never encountered a situation like that before. My Mafia experience is still a tad limited...and I found the situation strange. Not sure what to do, I unvoted, which seemed like the safe route...but it also felt too safe.
C. Paranoia, which is good when you're playing this game.

I'm sad to have to

Unvote

Killah Seven

For acting exactly like Puta. If it's a falseclaim, we'll know soon enough. Congrats, Puta Puta. If you're not scum, you're more than likely dying tonight due to your claim and awful play! 8D If you don't die tonight, please, be sure to give us results every single morning. Or we will lynch you.

Have a nice day.

[Seraphim]

Unvote

pending replacement.

[Seraphim]

Sounds good enough for me.

Vote: Der Hammer

(oh yeah, I'm back, lol. I'm catching up now but as I read the post above me, claiming miller and voting for oneself is bad play)

[Seraphim]

Sounds good enough for me.

Vote: Der Hammer

(oh yeah, I'm back, lol. I'm catching up now but as I read the post above me, claiming miller and voting for oneself is bad play)

Clarify what you mean here. Do you think he's scum?

from those one/two posts? Hell yes.

[Seraphim]

I like my vote where it is. Der Hammer's lack of actual content until he was attacked leads me to believe he is active-lurking. His miller claim smells. I'd be a lot less willing to lynch him if his miller claim had come closer to the beginning of the game rather than when he was attacked. Instead, it only comes when he is attacked. Therefore, I like my vote.

[Seraphim]

To answer your question, I'm not voting myself because that's not smart in the slightest. I would also like to know why you want me lynched so badly. I'm not sure where you posted your case against me.

[Seraphim]

ARGH!

I had a nice post typed up but it got eaten completely by real life issues. I'll retype it when I have time, which I don't right now.

[Seraphim]

Fine, you can lynch me. I won't vote self-vote, but if really think I'm the right lynch, go for it. I've never had it happen before.

I still think Der Hammer is the best lynch for the day and I will post a large content-filled post saying why and hopefully overturning the case against me...but, that's wishful thinking. Post will be forthcoming.

[Seraphim]

yep, fine with my vote...he refuses to answer my questions....in that forthcoming post, there shoul dbe answers...I doubt it though

Alright, answer my question: WHAT ARE YOUR QUESTIONS, CKD? IF you want them answered that badly, you should be able to rewrite them for me. Though I may unintentionally answer them in the following post.

First of all, Claus's case.

I think I have posted my case against you on my first "reading post", but I will be happy to repeat it.

Yeah, I do remember that case. I just wanted it again because I didn't feel like digging it out. Plus, it allows me to see the case in retrospect to everything that has happened so far.

- Your reason for jumping in the DerHammer wagon is scummy - you voted him because you though his play was "bad play".

I'll get to this in a moment. I want to cover the below part first.

- Your behavior from page 1-3 is also scummy. You jumped in an early bandwagon - which isn't bad at all - but then you got touchy when someone called you on it. And then when pressioned by BM, you backtracked and unvoted.

It was a misunderstanding that I understand now. I think I explained myself in a post.

viewtopic.php?p=1356618#1356618

- After that, all you did was pipe in every now and then to vote a random lurker (putaputa, then tubby (2 posts later), then puta puta again, then K7).

I will admit, my activity has been lacking. This game got behind me, which is one reason I wouldn't mind getting lynched. However, there are still scum to find and I want to help find them.

If you think lynching you is a bad idea, you can help it by telling my your general impressions on other players - something other than "so and so is a lurker, let's lynch him".

Alright, then. Now is the time I post my case on Der Hammer and explain my reasons for voting him, now and then.

Back when I voted him, he had just made a miller claim and had voted for himself. When I said 'bad play', I actually meant scummy play. If he was really a miller, why would he self-vote? Town never should self-vote. I felt this was scummy enough to warrant my vote.

I have a question, though. If we're talking about unwarranted votes, there have been quite a few thrown in my direction. Der Hammer is one of these votes. There are some others:

Hoopla - Why do you want me to claim so badly?

Der Hammer - Do you have more reasons than the deadline to vote me?

Nat - Why are you voting me? Your post voting for me complains about post length and that's all.

I find these people scummy for not posting reasons for why they're voting for me.

[Seraphim]

If you want me to claim, I will do so. If the town wants me to claim, I will. I have no objection to it.

[Seraphim]

To answer your question, I'm not voting myself because that's not smart in the slightest.

You may be scum, but you have a sense of humour

I would also like to know why you want me lynched so badly. I'm not sure where you posted your case against me.

I think I have posted my case against you on my first "reading post", but I will be happy to repeat it.

- Your reason for jumping in the DerHammer wagon is scummy - you voted him because you though his play was "bad play".

- Your behavior from page 1-3 is also scummy. You jumped in an early bandwagon - which isn't bad at all - but then you got touchy when someone called you on it. And then when pressioned by BM, you backtracked and unvoted.

- After that, all you did was pipe in every now and then to vote a random lurker (putaputa, then tubby (2 posts later), then puta puta again, then K7).


If you think lynching you is a bad idea, you can help it by telling my your general impressions on other players - something other than "so and so is a lurker, let's lynch him".

========

SirT:

So you defended Puta for his claim, but now you don't believe his claim anymore? If you believed his claim then, why do you think I have to confirm/deny it now?

Also, if the claim made you unvote puta, what was the reason you were voting him in the first place? Lack of content? I guess I cannot be accused of that - what I think about the game now is quite in the clear. Does any of my current opinions makes you think I'm scum/a good lynch?

Here's the post with the case in it.

[Seraphim]

That's what I thought afterwards. And it's not very town play IMO.

Exactly.

My case may feel like "I'm about to be lynched, attack the other possible lynchee!"

But you'll quickly notice that I've had my vote on Der Hammer for quite some time. You should also notice that Der Hammer has been using the same sort of play since he claimed.

That being said, if you are not voting for myself or Der Hammer, voting now is the best thing you can do. Even though I'm town, a no-lynch is not going to help the town in the slightest. If you're not voting, VOTE NOW.

[Seraphim]

How is Der Hammer more useful than I am? Der Hammer has been doing the exact same thing as me, except he

1. has self-voted
2. has a miller claim
3. Attacked those who went on his wagon after he self-voted.

How have I been useless?

[Seraphim]

I don't know how many more days we have until deadline. But these people who are sitting in the middle of the fence need to get the hell off the fence and commit a vote to myself or Der Hammer. Unless you think you can start another bandwagon that's viable, these are the only two actual bandwagons. A no lynch doesn't help anyone at this point; we need to lynch someone, even if it's me.

[Seraphim]

I claim vanilla townie.

I have no special powers. Nothing special about me in the slightest. If I am investigated, I will turn up innocent. If I am killed or lynched, I will come up as a vanilla townie.

There's my claim. Nothing terribly interesting about it, but at least you're not lynching a power role, right?

[Seraphim]

Am I more likely to be scum, then?

[Seraphim]

I'm guessing the deadline is going to be moved to the site being down for a few days?

[Seraphim]

Also, I would be more helpful and avoid lurking as I did today if I am not lynched(lol, I sound like a politician).

[Seraphim]

Hi.

I'm aware of the general situation as I follow the games I die in. I'm going to check back and see other claims.

I'm still a miller, unfortunately. That's my(Der Hammer's) claim on D1 and it still is now. I'm going to reread back a few days and stuff and collect myself so I can offer a good case and get a good read for the remaining players. Gut says iamusername, but gut has been wrong often.

Nice to be back.

[Seraphim]

Who has claimed thus far?

[Seraphim]

No. Just thinking.

I want Adel to claim next.

[Seraphim]

So it's pretty much two scum, a miller, and two vanillas? So much for night actions.

[Seraphim]

I was only semi-following this game when I replaced in. I'm rereading the last couple of the days and the remaining players in isolation to try and get a feel for the game.

My gut still says iamusername is scum but I still need to reread more.

[Seraphim]

Argument From Repetition

Could Der Hammer be a mafia goon in a mafia that has a living doctor in it?

why not Iamusername-Der Hammer?

I'm having trouble imagining a scum group that doesn't include Der Hammer.

I see that you've made 15 posts on this site since your last post in this game. Are you stalling?

I'd much rather lynch Seraphim. His continued greater level of activity in other games just re-enforces the scumminess of Der Hammer's lurking and miller claim.

And this is just today. I'm not an expert or particularly good at this game yet compared to some other players. However, I'm smart enough to see this: you aren't willing to admit other possible scum pairs. My predecessor lurked like crazy, true, but I am not my predecessor.

@Seraphim: which possibility do you think is more likely?
1. OGML was killed to setup iamausername
2. OGML was killed by a scumgrup that includes iamausername

How obvious do you think it was that OGML was an obvious vig?

On which day do you think the scum should've figured out that he was a vig?

1. I think possibility 2 is more likely because it was unclear who OGML would vig that night. There was plenty of suspicion to go around and killing a suspected vig as soon as possible was probably the optimal scum play. Then, they could push whoever was left alive after the night.

2. Not sure. Haven't read OGML as he is dead. However, keeping vigs alive to kill off townies is generally a scum play. Approaching LYOL, getting rid of the vig is optimal scum play.

3. Why is this an important question?

[Seraphim]

Sorry, this didn't translate well. I think it's more likely that you are scum than you were set-up to look like scum today due to the large amount of targets possible to look like scum. OGML was the obvious vig and killing him was the optimal play.

[Seraphim]

If Seraphim is scum, Yos is obviously his partner, y/n?

This kinda seems like a stretch to me. Did my predecessor buddy up to Yos?

[Seraphim]

Sorry, this didn't translate well. I think it's more likely that you are scum than you were set-up to look like scum today due to the large amount of targets possible to look like scum. OGML was the obvious vig and killing him was the optimal play.

I'm still finding the wording a bit confusing, but I think the gist is that killing the obv vig would be a much more pressing concern for the scumgroup than setting anyone up, regardless of its members. Is that right?

Yes. Adel's question was kinda loaded...there is always the possibility that you are NOT scum and that they killed the vig for the sake of killing the vig.

[Seraphim]

are you sure this is lynch or lose?

i mean sure its possible but there were still two kills last nite, so to me there is probably two killing elements left

This post is uber-scummy. Yes, we should assume LYOL because there is a scumteam out there with two likely living members(Florida Mafia) and five living players in the town as a whole, scum can win if we do not hit scum today.

And the second kill was probably OGML's kill, tubby. Are you trying to confuse the town and achieve a mislynch?

[Seraphim]

Support Points Plan

or whatever.

tubby, is that your entire case on me? That I'm a miller and I'm still alive?

[Seraphim]

i really don't like the point plan i understand it but i do not support it

Why? What don't you like about it?

[Seraphim]

Original Roll String: 1d3

1 3-Sided Dice: (3) = 3

1. Adel
2. iamausername
3. tubby

2 points to Tubby, 1 point to iamusername.

[Seraphim]

Original Roll String: 1d2

1 2-Sided Dice: (1) = 1

1. iamausername
2. Yos2

2 points to tubby, 1 point to iamusername

[Seraphim]

Original Roll String: 1d4

1 4-Sided Dice: (1) = 1

1. Adel
2. iamausername
3. tubby
4. Yos2

I get to start the final round.

2 points Tubby, 1 iamusername

[Seraphim]

No, actually.

I have:

iamusername: 9
Tubby: 12
Seraphim: 10
Adel: 0
Yos2: 2

[Seraphim]

Wait, what was majority again?

[Seraphim]

Final count:

tubby: 13
Seraphim: 14
iamusername: 13
Yos2: 4
Adel: 1

Looks like a spread between myself, tubby, and iamusername.

We could try more rounds...

[Seraphim]

From the results, I'd say that unless there's a miracle, either tubby, iamusername, or myself is going to die today. I'm going to keep watching and rereading and hopefully get good reads on everyone...

the point is i was and every day that hasn't been a cop outing a scum i have been considered for that days lynch, it doesn't take much to get a tubby wagon goin, its like dollar days at walmart everybody runs to that sale.

This actually made me laugh though I can't say it's a valid argument. I don't know if I can say that you're scum quite yet...

Adel wasn't even in the game on D1, though.

This sounds like flailing...it's trying to discredit an argument by pointing out one part instead of the entire post. I suppose what he's saying is that if Adel was scum, she would be attacking him like crazy, which may have some validity to it.

[Seraphim]

...Interesting, Iamusername. Why the unvote?

IT'S A TRAP!

[Seraphim]

Vote: iamusername

I can't see any other lynch going down today. I just hope to God it's the right choice.

[Seraphim]

What?

[Seraphim]

I'm not scum, unfortunately. Does scum want to call victory or did we lynch right?

[Seraphim]

No, I meant, is iamusername scum and the game goes on to the next day, or did the scum win? Because if username wasn't scum, and you're not scum, then Yos and tubby is scum.

I am not scum.

[Seraphim]

tubby + yos2, are you guys scum together?

If so, good game. If not...

[Seraphim]

Dammit.

I screwed up the game for everyone. Sorry 'bout the hammer...

[Seraphim]

Man, you and Yos2 really had me going. Adel managed to secure my trust: there are several indicators for her buddying up to me. And that entire vote rotation deal: a well-crafted piece of bullshit that was. What was the actual purpose of that?

[Seraphim]

There was one point where I almost voted Yos when Adel started talking about iamusername and Yos bussing each other.