Mafia 88- Return to New Catania- Game Over!
-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
Hi all. I skimmed the thread. I see we have lots of good players here. I also see that tubby216 is playing. Normally I'd lynch tubby216 on principle, but we have a player who is active lurking even more blatantly, so...
unvote, vote Puta Puta#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
I think it's clear puta puta is either (a) a useless, erratic townie, (b) someone who got a neutral role and doesn't know how to play it, or (c) a scum trying to appear as either a or b.
I'm happy with lynching any of the three.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
Really? It seems like it's quite easy to get a list of non-scummy posts by just taking all the posts and removing the ones you marked as scummy. There's no additional information there.xyzzy wrote:
That seems like a good way to help the scum know what behavior to continue. Bad plan, Xyl.Xylthixlm wrote:
I suggest counting non-scummy posts and voting the person with the fewest.xyzzy wrote:Reading through. Scummy posts get noted. Most scummy posts gets vote.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
Good grief, I just read puta puta's output in the game you're talking about. He/she/it plays that way astown?
*deep breath*
THIS IS Aexpletive deletedTEAM GAME. PLAY TO HELP YOURexpletive deletedTEAM AS BEST YOU CAN, OR DON'Texpletive deletedPLAY.
Vote is not moving unless Puta Puta suddenly suffers a personality change from having a truckload of clue dumped on his/her/it head.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
Townies have two duties in this game: to help find scum, and to talk so that other townies can tell whether you are scum. You're not doing either. You're the mafia equivalent of the little league player who sits out in left field admiring the flowers and doesn't even try to catch the ball. It's obnoxious and makes the game less fun for me.killa seven wrote:How rude.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
You are, of course, absolutely correct, and I would unvote Puta Puta if it wasn't for the fact that he/she/it is self-voting. My view is that anyone who is self-voting must fall into one of three categories:
(1) Scum
(2) A townie or third party who has a good reason to get themselves lynched
(3) A townie who is not playing to win
I choose to act as though no one would be in category 3, as it is a violation of forum rules, and therefore lynching someone who self-votes is always the correct action.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
I choose to assume that everyone is following the forum rules, and use that to guide my play. I don't think it's an unreasonable policy.
Selfhammering as cop is a reason to be banned from future games, not a reason to be coddled.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
It probably breaks into subcategories just like the town case. For some reason I have a hard time worrying about scum who aren't playing to win when I'm town.Sir Tornado wrote:Ok... just curious, why would scum want to self vote again?#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
See specifically this post by Mr. Flay which sums up my position on self-voting quite nicely.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
I agree with this post.Sir Tornado wrote:Xylthixm, have you heard of Village Idiots?
Okay, that's enough mafia theory. Time to either lynch Puta Puta or start a bandwagon on killa seven.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
I hope no one is stupid enough to think that my policy requires me to vote someone who self-votes and unvotes in the same post. Your transparent attempt to frame me is noted.Battle Mage wrote:
Claims this as a valid policy, but fails to follow it up, when i self-vote. Claiming to hold an opinion but being too afraid of controversy to back it up is scummy.Xylthixlm wrote:I agree with that rule.
My rule is somewhat broader: You always lynch anyone who votes themself.
BM
In other words, non-serious self votes don't count.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
The vote is PARTIALLY for lurking, I'm surprised you didn't think of that possibility.Battle Mage wrote:
looking for an escape route-a way to unvote without looking conspicuous.Xylthixlm wrote:Puta Puta, I'll unvote you if you explain what you've been thinking so far this game.
Not a post you would see from a townie- if you think someone is scum, why would their thoughts on the game be enough to make you unvote, unless the vote was PURELY for lurking, which isnt enough for a vote anyway.
BM
Total reasons to vote puta puta with lurking > total reasons not to vote puta puta
Total reasons to vote puta puta if he/she/it stops lurking < total reasons not to vote puta puta#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
I think we're being trolled.Natirasha wrote:
This is a rudimentary scumploy only used by novice mafiates. Just check pretty much any newbie game if you want proof. In short, it confirms my vote.Puta Puta wrote:you wanna kill ur cop, fine with me.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
Having players in the game whose play can't be analyzed for scumminess gives the scum an extra place to hide. I don't like giving the scum places to hide.
I am completely convinced that it's rational to vote lurkers in many situations even if lurking is not a scumtell for the player in question.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
Fortunately, Puta Puta is being replaced, so the argument is academic until we go to bandwagon killa seven.
Rereading on the off chance that someone said something scummy in the last five pages.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
BM 381: Slightly worrying, as I've used that line myself as scum.
militant 402: "beginning to annoy me" is not my favorite reason for a vote
SirT 404: Leaving a trail is good. Suspicion on BM noted. "deliberate" ambiguous playstyle, antitown.
Ectomancer 411: Yes.
BM 488: BM calling me "obvscum" means I'm playing right
Yos2 499: I agree with Yosarian2
BM 514: BM shows no evidence of considering whether my policy is a good idea
skitzer general: Where's that analysis?#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
Battle Mage wrote:OMGUS. And ftr, it's fairly obvious to everyone here that your policy is completely idiotic, and barely even a policy, given that you haven't really thought/spelt out the specifics of it. Self-voting is clearly not a scumtell, which is why i see your pretending that is is, as scummy.
BM
linkMr. Flay wrote:Allow me to necro to state some things clearly for everyone:
That is all.- If you are part of an Uninformed Majority (i.e.Town) in a game I am moderating and contribute to your own lynch by self-voting, I will consider you modkilled for violating your Win Condition, absent other circumstances*.
- If you contribute to your own lynch as a pro-town semi-experienced or IC player in a Newbie Game, as List Moderator I will ban you from ICing ever again**.
- If you contribute to your own lynch by self-voting (absent other circumstances*) and turn out to be pro-town, I will not knowingly play with you again.
* I will never run a game with Lynchers or Jesters. It is possible some other mechanic could make this a viable strategy, but I will make that explicit in your Role PM.
** There is an ongoing NG where this happened; please don't discuss it here until that game is over. I've already spoken to that player.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
BM, connect the dots. If it is against the rules of the game to be on your own lynch as town without a good reason, then anyone who is self-voting with intent to be on their own lynch is either (a) not town, (b) possessed of a good reason, or (c) breaking the rules. Cases 'a' or 'b' are good reasons to lynch the person. Case 'c' is handled by extra-game mechanisms.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
Oh wow, that's a pretty thorough OMGUS. No townie points to tubby216 for making it. I especially like the implication that OGML is calling tubby scummy because he has a personal grudge; it sounds like tubby isn't even considering scumhunting as a possibility? I think I need to go find the "weirdly vague softclaim-type thing" OGML says tubby216 made.
An unrelated point for my future reference: I really don't like the idea of someone playing deliberately ambiguous; it's bad for the town. "I'm playing badly because I don't want to be night killed" (or whatever SirT said) doesn't sit very well with me.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
Follow along.Sir Tornado wrote:
I never said I was playing "badly". I just meant that I wasn't trying to be "obviously" townie which I usually am (regardless of my role) early on in the game.Xylthixm wrote:"I'm playing badly because I don't want to be night killed"
You're obviously townie...
...so the town is less likely to lynch you...
...so the town is less likely to lynch an innocent player...
...so the town is more likely to lynch scum.
Therefore, not playing obviously townie lowers the town's chances of lynching scum, and therefore lowers the town's chances of winning. What do you call that? I call it bad play.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
If you're scum, it's good play. If you're town, it's bad play. It's very easy for scum to convince themselves to do something that benefits scum by rationalizing "I would have done that even if I was town", so I take anything that helps scum more than town as a scumtell regardless of excuses.
I'm not saying you're scum, but it is a data point I'm considering.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
In my experience, scum often go to the gallows convinced that the case against them is bullshit and they would have done the exact same thing as town.
The human mind has an extraordinary capacity for self-deception.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
I'm assuming that if you're scum, playing "obviously townie" is not an option; the choices are "deliberately ambiguous" and "obviously scum".
I'm sure you can work out the results with those two as options.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
Okay, tubby's aggressive defense is really sticking out like a sore thumb here. There's a better-than-random chance he's scum, and I don't think having him alive later will help the town much.
unvote killa seven, vote tubby216#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
Honestly, my ability to find scum in a large game on day 1 is pretty weak. Nobody has done anything scummy enough to make them a better lynch than a lurker, aside from tubby who is giving inconsistent reads.OhGodMyLife wrote:Xyl, aside from lurkers, who do you find the scummiest right now and why?#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
Something tubby said in the answer to my question 'clicked' and convinced me he's likely town. I'm really at a loss to explain why. I just thought "oh, I've seen this pattern before. he's a newbie, not a power role, and trying hard to find scum but failing because he's a newbie".curiouskarmadog wrote:do you still feel that tubby is being aggressively defensive?...#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
I'd explain myself but there's already a thread on why lurker hunting is good.Battle Mage wrote:
argh lol.Xylthixlm wrote:vote: killa seven
Contribute or die. I'd prefer the former, but I'd settle for the latter.
ReVote: Xyl
I guess i spoke too soon. xD
BM
I love you too, BM.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
I find that I attract plenty of suspicion with just my normal town play, particularly from people who haven't played with me much.vollkan wrote:I don't expect to have much sympathy for my viewpoint, but I actually think there is an optimum and non-zero level of suspicion. When I play this game, I don't aim to be a squeaky-clean "obv townie". Take self-voting as an example. Whenever I do it, I inevitably attract suspicion from people. I also generate a debate, which creates an environment better for me to scumhunt in.
I partially agree with you, and partially disagree with you. I don't think that putting extra effort into not looking scummy is worthwhile if you're town (mainly because it usually has the opposite of the intended effect). On the other hand, I don't think townies should be deliberately drawing suspicion on themselves; there's enough ambient suspicion on this game that it will fall somewhere, and the higher the chance it's on scum the better. And townies shouldabsolutely notbe deliberately trying to match their scum playstyle.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
Yes it is.OhGodMyLife wrote:
Thats a copout.Xylthixlm wrote:
Honestly, my ability to find scum in a large game on day 1 is pretty weak. Nobody has done anything scummy enough to make them a better lynch than a lurker, aside from tubby who is giving inconsistent reads.OhGodMyLife wrote:Xyl, aside from lurkers, who do you find the scummiest right now and why?#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
BM is assuming that, even though the mod isn't explicitly confirming him, he wouldn't have educated tubby about the no-quoting rule unless that was from tubby's real role PM.
This is a better assumption with some mods than with others.
Also, agreed with BM that mods should keep participation to a minimum.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
-
Xylthixlm !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- !xmafia win
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: July 12, 2006
Khelvaster in mini 551 was an excellent example of why mods should be as terse as possible.
I believe tubby is town, but it's not because of The Fonz.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi