@Frog - This was a serious question, can you link me a time you've self-voted as town?In post 8229, GuiltyLion wrote:Frog, have you ever self-voted as town before?In post 8116, Frogsterking wrote:VOTE: Frogsterking
H-O-L-Y S-H-I-T
Rolling Mason is such a negative utility because it makes guys play like total brick heads
have fun winning D9 or whatever when you FINALLY kill all the scum
Thank goodness Menalque got fucking shot and Gamma exited so you guys stopped hard defending scum
Large Normal 241: Random Pictures and Other Stuff | Endgame
-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
I think this is maybe the best point in Frog's defense, but I don't put a ton of stock into it because ultimately Frog is giving reasons for a townread in 8082 and 8083 and it's not always difficult to fake real-sounding thought processes for fictional townreads as scum, cause you know everybody's townIn post 8249, DeasVail wrote:The responses to me in 8082 and 8083 actually give me the impression of real thought behind his read on me and I think that if scum-Frogster had successfully fabricated that sort of thought process, then he would have just come out with it straight away instead of the initial 8078"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
actually @Frog nvm I just went back and checked and I had forgotten you self-voted in KTANE. Which was maybe a slightly different situation since you knew you had just done an extremely anti-town play, but I guess does give a basic precedent to being willing to sac yourself under fire.
still, I'm having a hard time understanding why you had the reaction you did. Why did Datisi suspecting you cause you a reactive response like that?"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
Also I just went back and reread this part of the gameIn post 8249, DeasVail wrote:Directly communicating with CSF in-thread about whether to just let Morning Tweet die or go for my elim instead just feels way too.... blatantly like a scum PT conversation for it to be carried out in thread like that? Especially since if it was CSF + Frog as scum with Tweet there, there was very little evidence actual townies wanting my death over Tweet's at that point.
the thing that makes it scummy in my mind is like - I don't have a strong recollection of Frog pushing Gamma when Gamma was around. I'll go back and do some homework after this post, but IIRC Frog wasn't pushing Gamma at all until Tweet came in. Now, suddenly, he's writing up a case on Gamma? If he was aware of these points before why was he not addressing them before when he wasn't voting Gamma? I kinda feel like it may have been an effort to make sure he has a nice justification for his Tweet scumread+vote left over there in ISO for if anyone goes looking later"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
could this not be scum grabbing for towncred for his buddies using the voice of Real Townies? If Frog is town it's unlucky that he had a position of "well I scumread their play but conf town thinks they were town" on not one but two mafiasIn post 4126, Frogsterking wrote:The problem with Gamma is that they're in a similar category as HEM, they're Towned by IIRC scamper and also by Ari posthumously."I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
In post 4420, Frogsterking wrote:D2 tilt wagon?
Frog blatantly defending HEM hereIn post 4424, Frogsterking wrote:
When the towncore goes on tilt and throws away the D2 kill.In post 4421, DeasVail wrote:what is a tilt wagon?
I know sometimes town is Loud and Wrong about townreads on scum, but this super confident townread really only sprung up in response to HEM being wagoned. Initially Frog was suggesting he'd be ok with the wagon (before it actually happened)In post 4115, Frogsterking wrote:I think HEM is fair game today because none of the 5 slots I'm sheeping for proxy Town reads (ydrasse, scamper, Ausuka, Dats, Nero) town read HEM unless Nero does."I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
surely you should recognize that defending and campaigning on behalf of flipped scum is not a good lookIn post 8576, Frogsterking wrote:so-called associative tells.
you might be town that did that but it's not really at all ridiculous to say you shouldn't be townread for it"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
who of the uncleared players would you bet the game on being town?In post 8578, Frogsterking wrote:I'm looking at this PoE and it's really not as tight as you're implying."I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
Titus, everyone else has already claimedIn post 8564, Titus wrote:Datisi, I'm not claiming.
you're not withholding any information from scum at this point"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
I guess it's less that fireisred reversed tack once CSF was outed and more that he wrote an enormous case on me that he would know has an expiry date in the first place. Like CSF was in full anti-spew mode from the get, why go through the effort of pretending (or actually) rereading the entire game and write an enormous narrative for a fabricated scumread that you're willing to drop at a moment's notice. it's just not intuitive to me as what scum would doIn post 8475, Dannflor wrote:I don't think Guilty Lion's reasons to town read Fire are very good because I don't understand what GL actually expects scum!fire to do differently in this situation. Hard push both Frogster and GL as scum after CSF flips scum? That doesn't really make sense. Fire just needs to leave the door open to go back to suspecting GL later and all he has to do is town flip Frogster to do that. There's only one scum left (or at least there better be), so pushing two people when you want one person to help you this phase seems counterintuitive for scum.
it's possible that you're right. but on an instinctual level it just doesn't align with how I feel scum would play. I think scum would be generally more prone to enacting their long term agenda contingent on CSF going down, not setting up a gameplan that they'd then immediately have to scrap"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
also, I'd like you to point me to where Frogster is doing real-time solving. All he's doing is insulting people suspecting himIn post 8475, Dannflor wrote:I feel like you are doing the least of real-time solving this phase out of everyone left in the game"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
What was the advantage to not claiming, in your opinion? Given that odd-night vig was confirmed and every other player had also claimed. What did you think scum might not know?
I think it's kinda weird Titus didn't die, but that's still self-resolving.
I'm probably just wrong on fire I guess? I was lazy yesterDay but I'll have more time this day phase"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
folks, never plan a wedding it's just A Lot
I will prioritize some time to get to this today. I skimmed along a bit and see that fire is pushing DV now? I will read and consider, but I'm wary. There's important VCs I need to revisit from when DV was a wagon. however I kinda gutfeel obscure wouldn't spend all his time tunneling and calling out a partner on principle
at some point I wanna reread D1/D2 for myself it's just an intimidating task at the moment it's been keeping me away. but I owe this game some Real Solviness and I am feeling guilty(lion) that I haven't given it that yet, I will embark on the reread today even if I don't have time to finish it in the same sitting"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
I wouldn't believe it either, it was obviously a bad claim. I would guess the main purpose that claim served was so buddies could either establish reason to vote or cement her deathIn post 8807, fireisredsir wrote:i can't believe that scum actually expected mt to live with that claim lol"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
to be clear in the vast majority of universes here I wanna lim fire today
I just wanna do my Homework before we do in case it's wrong and the game goes haywire"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
hey everyone, I'm here and gonna start doing some reading, but around for real time interfacing if anyone wants that too."I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
@Shea
I feel you on this post and I think (if I'm understanding right) what you're saying on this page as well - if fire's attitude is that this gamestate is winnable for scum, and that he would be trying harder as scum - that doesn't seem to align with his "lim DV after me" attitude when presumably a competent scum!DV might be able to talk his way out of it and win, nor is he worried about the possibility of a deep scum in the pool that's being mistakenly townread?In post 8840, Thestatusquo wrote:That being said there feels like an...idk it feels like fire is pushing people because he knows he'd be expected to push people but it feels like theres not that much actual attempt to solve the game in the sense that there seems like there's very little curiosity about people's alignment outside of DVs just like yesterday there seemed like very little curiosity in peoples alignment outside of frogster.
Like its simultaneously projecting confidence and lack of confidence and that's what's really bugging me about it.
Like it looks like fireisred cased DV because he knew he had to push someone and went back and found a bunch of stuff that look bad for DV and it feels like thats the kind of same thing he did yesterday with frogster, but why arent we considering other options outside of just casing one person?
And I definitely feel like I as scum lean into the "being cool with your own lim / being in the limpool" strategy because you feel like you kinda have to if you want to have any real hope of surviving, I definitely don't townread that behavior.
it's also not really relevant but I think Dann is radiating towniness on these past couple of pages. past couple of day phases really, feels like he's trying the hardest out of all of us"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
yeah, I think this is right. I think mafia in general are more likely to get pulled into these somewhat abstract arguments about how they would or wouldn't play, whereas town tends to stay a little more focused on the ground level explaining why they acted how they did and/or who they think is scummy. a lot of fire's recent posts I'm not really intuitively understanding why he's engaging with these tangential arguments so much when to me they feel detached from Things That Are UsefulIn post 8862, Thestatusquo wrote:But underneath that there was the logic "i am playing differently from how scum me would play.""I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
I guess my thinking though is that at a certain point town usually realizes they're getting caught up in a haze of pedantic bullshit that is ultimately like three steps removed from stuff that they think speaks to their case or helps resolve people's feelings about them. plus they're also operating from a baseline that they're town. so there's an inherent throughline of towniness to everything you think you've done and personally it's frustrating to start getting into the theory of an argument like "here's how I could be playing as scum, but I'm not doing that for x and y reason, but also here's why I'm not playing this other way as town, etc" whereas as scum you're more prone to thinking such a debate may help you in some way or another
does that make sense? I think when I'm town I just start getting riled up and try to start simplifying the debate and hammering my main points whereas scum me has a harder time doing that, if I do it's an emulation"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
yeah this seems like a wonky read, TSQ has maybe had moments of absentmindedness at late hours (mainly thinking of forgetting CSF claim thing) but also has had many other instances of paying attention to subtle points or assertions in people's posts that I've missed on first passIn post 8875, fireisredsir wrote:tbh it just seems like you've barely been paying attention to the game for like weeks"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
I'm back and around. I've been rereading D1 since last night and will continue to do so today. I'm mainly hunting for anything that absolutely pushes me away from a scum!fire explanation"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
In post 177, skitter30 wrote:
ty for the context, that explains a bit more how vp is approaching this, i was thinking u feel p similar to the last few games i have played with youIn post 173, fireisredsir wrote:skitter you missed it, lately ive been burnt out and haven't cared much about early game of games as town
did i play a game with scum-you? i'm not remembering offhand
Don't get me wrong, I'm largely skimming past all the posts from dead townies unless it's direct conversation with fire or other living players. Mostly focusing on flipped scum and how fire is interacting with them and the gamestateIn post 179, fireisredsir wrote:
i think you specced at least some of invictusIn post 177, skitter30 wrote:
ty for the context, that explains a bit more how vp is approaching this, i was thinking u feel p similar to the last few games i have played with youIn post 173, fireisredsir wrote:skitter you missed it, lately ive been burnt out and haven't cared much about early game of games as town
did i play a game with scum-you? i'm not remembering offhand"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
Whoops, had those quoted but decided not to post anything lol, then they got wrapped up in quick post. So far that's been the most interesting thing I've found in the first like 15 pages, but it doesn't stand out to me as antipartnery hence why I wasn't gonna highlight it lol"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
The main thing I was thinking was it's interesting skitter just kinda takes fire at his word regarding his meta and early games. But that could either be pocketing or theater ultimately so yeah, not really useful. I wanted to say it was maybe slightly antipartnery but then figured skitter may be equally likely to put up more of a fight/push on fire in the town!fire world"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
It's random and unimportant but I kinda feel like this post should lock Titus as town. This seems pretty clearly the even night vig trying to suggest shots to who he thinks might be the odd night vigIn post 594, Nero Cain wrote:
why vig him when you could vig firebringer or xofelf.In post 584, Irrelephant11 wrote:
Please do feel the love Datisi <3In post 578, Aristeia wrote:Dats dear, I think if you just take the extra attention as a positive because all your friends here are thinking about you, maybe you will feel happier and loved. <3.
until I vig you at least
Also first 20something pages reminded me how visibly unpartnered Ausuka and VPB are. Fire also has some dodgy posts attempting to sow doubt on Ausukas VPB suspicion"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
Uh oh I'm getting to fireisreds Eiralox push and I am remembering that I liked that push a lot. Namely because fireisred had already checked Eiralox meta and had a specific type of reaction he was hunting for. I think scum is notably less likely to check a townies meta in hopes that they will find "different" behavior in a game where they know that townie is town again
Especially since it wasn't post hoc or anything"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
Can you do me a favor and link a starting pointIn post 837, humaneatingmonkey wrote:
what do you think of Irrellephant, VPBIn post 365, VP Baltar wrote:
GL is top town read.In post 228, GuiltyLion wrote:In post 211, Ausuka wrote:I've decided Datisi is scum but we should let him live because he's cool
Datisi I'm putting you in the penalty box, you're gonna need to start wowing me with some better reads to get out"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
-_-
my gut says DV, but there are still large chunks of this game that I haven't revisited
I also plan to reread obscure's pushes on DV again. I remember initially feeling obscure felt like he genuinely believed DV was scum (4019), but then deciding he was suspiciouslytooconfident in it for flimsy/unbelievable reasons (5362), and in light of fire's thoughts + townflip I am now thinking this is more likely to be distancing theater instead of scum tunneling a townie. I had somewhat mindlessly discarded that idea earlier (8811), but it feels more likely as the POE shrinks. overall I still think Ausuka/Titus are unassailably town and TSQ just feels more genuinely uninformed and earnestly present than DV if I compare the two on vibes.
however, I also really need to stop just coasting on vibes so expect more from me shortly"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
I also thinkIn post 5145, T3 wrote:
DeasVail (6): fireisredsir, Ausuka, marcistar, Frogsterking, Enchant, obscure
obscure (5): GuiltyLion, Datisi, Nero Cain, scamper, Dannflor
humaneatingmonkey (2): Ydrasse, Gamma Emerald
Thestatusquo (1): humaneatingmonkey
fireisredsir (1): Thestatusquo
Morning Tweet (1): DeasVail
Not voting (1): Something_Smart
Day 1 will end in (expired on 2022-09-18 20:44:00). With 17 alive it takes 9 to eliminate.
normallythis is a bad look for DV - counterwagon to scum yet both of the other known scum (Gamma, HEM) are wasting votes elsewhere, neither bussing for towncred nor pushing the hypothetical DV miselim. Knowing everyone else's alignment on the DV wagon (as well as my own) it feels like it'd have to be exactly Ausuka if DV is town (if scum!TSQ, why are all three scum vanity voting in a T/S dueling wagon situation), but I strongly TR Ausuka, so...
unfortunately the caveat here, the reason I only say "normally", is that this is also a part in the game where both Gamma and HEM were flaking/replacing out, so it's not strictly as damning as I want it to be if they had been active and posting frequently. I plan to go back and reread this bit in context to see what their angles/trajectories were specifically around this time as DV/obscure wagons were each building, to what degree they were present at all, but I haven't gotten to that yet"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
meh it wasn't great that Shea did that but I don't think it's indicative, scum!Shea could just as easily be patient there. They weren't being seriously considered as a lim that day and all the momentum was on fire, who was pushing DV. I don't think there's really a lot of utility gained from rushing the hammer for scum!Shea, seems more like a personality thing than an alignment thing. It could also easily come from town who genuinely thinks the game has a high chance of ending with the hammer.In post 8963, Titus wrote:Utterly detest shea rushing the hammer."I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
I also want to say TSQ is town based on this wagon - if scum!TSQ, it would mean 9 townies collectively voted scum out with not a single scum bussing and playing for towncred. That's exceedingly rare, I don't think I can recall a single time I've seen a wagon that large consist entirely of town.In post 5567, T3 wrote:Morning Tweet (9): DeasVail, Nero Cain, Dannflor, fireisredsir, Datisi, Ausuka, Ydrasse, scamper, Frogsterking"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
I guess Shea did make a lot of noise about how theywantedto be on that wagon, Frogster's hammer was unexpected, but I don't think that changes the point all that much. if scum!TSQ had reallyreallywanted to be on the scum wagon, they wouldn't have removed or hesitated with their vote, especially since they were calling out Gamma from the get. I think previously we also touched on TSQ yelling about it is arguably +town, since scum may be more self-conscious about the optics of explicitly complaining that they weren't on the wagon."I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
feh okay yeah I just checked Gamma/HEM ISOs and both had fully replaced out before DV wagon was really even a thing
so I guess the VCA logic can't be fully trusted
at the same time I don't think it's like completely wrong. at least as far as Shea goes I still think it's +town, it's just maybe not a full +scum for DV"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
I think the only scenario where Titus is scum is she's a serial killer and either has a gated kill or Nero happened to hit VPB or Ari on D1 and then decided to play it modified vig once HEM's vig claim came out. I don't think she can be group scum by Normal rules? but someone please tell me if that's wrong
and even then if she's SK it's still also weird that HEM claimedmodifiedvig. That means if Titus is SK he got remarkably lucky with a complete BS claim that perfectly slotted in with theonetown modified vig, or scum had to have knowledge of marci's role somehow"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
wait Titus can't be a gated kill SK cause then we would have had a night of no-kills, so scrap that bit"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
do you have any initial hot takes / gut feelings on who you think is mafia?In post 8974, DeasVail wrote:I will be going through every slot in depth over the next few days"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
Not gonna lie I kinda gutfeel this is a townie post lolIn post 8983, DeasVail wrote:ugh I promise it's not me
I know that doesn't mean anything, but y'know
I should absolutely not put any stock into it but ahhh my heart"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
I guess let me be clearer on my thinkingIn post 8978, Ausuka wrote:I don't think this is that weird though, he didn't actually claim even night vig, modified vig is a pretty vague claim to make
1) we know Titus is not groupscum because multiple kills on N2
2) if Titus is SK, that means mafia team was exactly 4 goons and could not have had information on town PRs
3) after n1, mafia would know of the existence of another killing role due to multiple kills
4) HEM claimed modified vig on D2... why? At this point there'd be no reason to suspect a town vig is gated, it doesn't work as a fakeclaim to draw out a full vig, why claim vig at all? Why not claim something like an investigative or other form of PR? I guess I just don't see what HEM hopes to gain here if he had no knowledge of the set up whatsoever
However, typing this out made me realize that if it's 4 mafia goons in a 21 player set up, they probably have to think there's a third party or something helping them out? Cause otherwise that's pretty stacked against them lol. So maybe scum was already suspecting presence of a SK from the beginning if we're in that world?
I also haven't thought much about Enchant being universal back up. Is two modified vigs + three masons + universal backup against 5 scum a balanced setup? What could the 5th mafia role be to help them, and what are the odds that's the last person we'd flip before going through all 4 goons first?
Maybe I should be more suspicious of Titus. It sucks that Nero replaced out cause not shooting HEM on N2 is still overall pretty bizarre"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
What do you think about my point for TSQ town though, that's not really as much "VCA" as it is "how often do you see an entirely pure 9 person wagon on scum"In post 8980, Ausuka wrote:I don't really buy into VCA stuff personally but I understand people disagree with me about that"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
going to actually do a quick pass of this specific part of the game...
Here we have two dueling wagons on scum. if TSQ is scum then both these wagons are entirely pure and literally all four unflipped mafia are voting elsewhere. Gamma's been replaced by Tweet (who is posting but has not claimed), obscure is flaking out and hasn't posted, TSQ is obviously around and posting a lot. CSF is also in the game and posted several times at this point, though is still presumably not at all caught up.In post 5392, T3 wrote:
Morning Tweet (5): DeasVail, Nero Cain, Frogsterking, Dannflor, fireisredsir
obscure (4): Datisi, Ausuka, Ydrasse, GuiltyLion
DeasVail (3): marcistar, Enchant, obscure
Thestatusquo (1): Cat Scratch Fever
fireisredsir (1): Thestatusquo
Not voting (3): Something_Smart, scamper, Morning Tweet
Day 1 will end in (expired on 2022-09-18 20:44:00). With 17 alive it takes 9 to eliminate.
This is exactly where I'd expect scum to be doingsomethingabout both wagons being on scum, even though there's a fully absent teammate being wagoned. IMO the safe and better play would actually be probably to bus obscure, he's out of the game, it gives Tweet time to catch up overnight. TSQ probably can't do that however because they've already voiced a ton of suspicion on Gamma.
I guess I could imagine this being a bus vote, frankly. Makes sure to remind everyone that they were already scumreading Tweet slot, while also casting suspicion on the wagon, possible set up for the next day.In post 5393, Thestatusquo wrote:I mean i still think gamma was scum but I'm still alarmed by how everyone told me i was wrong and then happily jumped on.
VOTE: tweet
Followed by Datisi and Ausuka hopping on fairly quickly:In post 5399, Datisi wrote:VOTE: tweet
y-2
actually reading her iso this game, this feels really polarized, and the fact that she's so quiet and accepting of her wagon makes me feel like she has accepted her death. she was going mad in chara's folly. which maybe isn't a fair comparison considering she just repped in here, but uh yeah feeling this lethargic is scummy anyways i think.
if she is scum, then i would not be surprised if she is being bussed and that feeling partly came from her teammates. this is moreso post hoc thinking after seeing fire vote there, but i think it could have some merit either way.
i don't think i have enough brainpower for this game day to actually do some Deep Thinking about fire's alignment, but it is only day two, there is tomorrow.
Then we have the unvote:In post 5400, Ausuka wrote:VOTE: tweet
Tweet does rhyme with yeet actually
I guess I could post more stuff today but I'm lazy and like... Tweet is in her scum meta apparently and CSF is self resolving... WhateverI guess the main question is, is this performative? I feel if I were scum I'd just stay on MT here so I have my nice lil spot on the wagon I worked hard all day to earn. What does scum!TSQ gain from unvoting here other than towncred for looking like they don't want to rush the day? Is that reason enough to unvote a wagon you know will flip red?
I guess typing this out I do feel it looks worse for TSQ than I had imagined, I could see scum doing that performative unvote, especially given this:In post 5462, Thestatusquo wrote:Frogsters unvote feels performative."I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
Also, since people are going back to the early game again:
Nero harped on this a lot the whole game, how Relly refers to something that just wasn't happening (people scumreading skitter's entrance), it's simply not grounded in facts. Was Nero right about this being scum-indicative after all?In post 883, Irrelephant11 wrote:
hi! I think you're town because people scumread your entrance to the game in the same way I've seen people scumread you as town like 12 timesIn post 880, skitter30 wrote:also heya relly
I don't have any strong scumreads except, like.... datisi? I sure hope the silent slots are scum
am I talking myself around back into Shea here based off DV's posts today?!?! stay tuned"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
I don't think anyone is obviously town anymore at this stage, whoever is last mafia remaining already survived two miselims and is playing a strong game (unless we're in the world where SK!Titus is coasting off of fortunate coincidences and faulty mech-spec by the town)
Ausuka's my strongest TR but that's primarily off of interactions with VPB on D1, and even that I am going to have to revisit and re-examine, so idk. if you have a reason why you think you're "obvious" town I'd like to hear it but it feels like not really a meaningful or genuine assertion here. I'm town but I can totally understand people finding reasons to be suspicious of me now that we're in 5p and the prior suspects flipped green"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
I think this is a decent point but I wouldn't weight this significantly above the totality of the rest of evidenceIn post 9006, Ausuka wrote:
I changed my mind againIn post 543, Irrelephant11 wrote:I feel the same, though I'm wishy washy on if it makes VPB scum or not
I feel like it's very unusual for mafia to describe themselves as wishy washy about their partner and being unapologetically so
It seems like a counterintuitive take for Relly to make and this reminds me why I thought he looked uninformed earlier
not trying to sway you either way as I'm still unresolved on DV vs TSQ, this is a point in TSQ's favor, but I don't think it never comes from scum"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
yeah 6 scum seems like it would be way too much and I also don't think the game hasfeltlike a 6 scum game with how hard it was to secure consensus on pivotal eliminations in the midgame
especially since the vigs (if there are two) are gated, yes each are confirmable but functionally they behave as a single vig in terms of kill power
however I also don't think scum!Titus comes up with this theory? like this kind of paranoid logic seems more likely to come from her as town here"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
the whole D3 slog of dueling Smart vs Menalque wagons seems like it'd be good to reread, I need to do that"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
lol I was rereading my 5627 and I forgot about this post:
wrt to obscure/TSQ this is potentially trying to set up a "one of [scum] or [scum] is scum" dynamic in her reads, to try to use a flip in either to clear the other one, giving her a trajectory to distance from each buddy simultaneously yet not needing to commit to eliminating both. I can't recall a reason to inherently think TSQ/obscure cannot be partnered at this stage in the game, it's not like they were pushing on each other especially notably or strongly, so it stands out as a particularly artificial thought, and I also don't see why Gamma would want to set up such a dynamic with a townie and a buddyIn post 2766, Gamma Emerald wrote:In post 2726, Thestatusquo wrote:The dogpiling jokes aside I will give something_smart a chance to get involved in the game I suppose.
VOTE: Gamma
Gamma who are the scum and whyMarci
One of you/obscure
humaneatingmonkey
And maybe someone else
it's like... bad scum play, but I don't think Gamma is above bad scum play"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
when scamper fakes a gunsmith guilty on Menalque and Menalque plays it off by reiterating the VT claim:
In post 5812, DeasVail wrote:scamper you ready for more votes on mena?
does scum make these posts? again, I'm potentially vibe reading too hard, but these feel somewhat townie to me. idk when I'm scum I'm frequently too much of a coward to try to fake posts like theseIn post 5816, DeasVail wrote:
tbh me too. I thought it was a gambit, but I guess not!In post 5813, Menalque wrote:I am v confused
that said, there is perhaps a universe where scum has a rolecop and got marci or Nero on N1 (explaining HEM's modified vig claim) and then scamper on N2, so they'd know he was bullshitting already.if that had happened, maybe scum!DV is confident enough to fake these posts. and it would explain why Menalque was able to bluff off the guilty so well imo. but they definitely strike me as more unlikely to come from scum who has no idea whether scamper has a Real Guilty"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
blah this feels pretty townie too thoughIn post 5824, Thestatusquo wrote:I will say that the presence of a gunsmith means the clear on datisi is not as strong as it was without that information. When I mod gunsmith I try to put in scum roles that don't have a gun so its not a full clear. I have no idea if doing that is normal or not.
On the other hand the two vigs already act as false positives and the roll is already balanced from that perspective mech wise so maybe it is closer to a full clear than it would be in a game I run.
That being said, I am shocked to learn that another person I was perpetually scum reading and told was town repeatedly by other people is scum.
Shocked I say."I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
actually idk I could see that coming from scum who doesn't know that scamper is bluffing
like if scum knew scamper's role -> DV posts look worse
if scum had no idea whether scamper was lying -> TSQ posts look worse"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
eee the joke in this one kinda gives me minor heebie-jeebiesIn post 5850, DeasVail wrote:some reaction tests are longer than others
...
is life just one long reaction test?"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
Ausuka is super town around that whole situation though
I'd bet the game on Ausuka town I think. It's just every time I read their thoughts on anything throughout critical junctures of the game it feels so pure and genuine and uninformed. I'd be incredibly impressed if Ausuka scum
@Ausuka what do you think of this whole ass conversation:
theater? or is town!TSQ on the right track and scum!Menalque is defendingIn post 5880, Menalque wrote:
because ironically I think that when scum are ~around~ at the time that someone is getting wagoned and they don't wanna duck thread I've often seen them go for statements like "this is a scum claim" "this always comes from scum" "this is a scum reaction" to have some involvement in the shindig and I guess sometimes to play into looking like they're uninformed?In post 5877, Thestatusquo wrote:
I didn't have a particular reason when I did the thing, I was reacting. I saw a bunch of posts in the pedit of the iso dive I did on frogsterking, said "eh, those are probably just nonsense." and then came into the thread to see shit raining down from the sky. Then I reacted to that shit.In post 5871, Menalque wrote:
firstly, I am trying to turn over a new, chilled out leaf and to continue on my path to tranquilityIn post 5865, Thestatusquo wrote:
I've seen the "I don't know why you're doing this town but you must have a good reason so I'm not accusing you of game throwing" response way more from scum than town. I feel like town has more of an inclination to get immediately angry whereas scum tries to remain calm and try to figure a way out. Shrug.In post 5861, Menalque wrote:
hang on, explain thisIn post 5821, Thestatusquo wrote:
This is a scum response.In post 5818, Menalque wrote:hence why I'm not yelling at scamper about game throwing
Specifically the verbiage "this is weird you're not throwing" to me comes from scum way more often then town in these spots, just as a personal experience sort of thing.
secondly, this initially pinged me as v performative seeing as I was basically 100% dead there as scum and so calling out anything I said as "scummy" seemed redundant if you were legitimately convinced I was. idk how scum!me would be figuring out a way out there and so I couldn't see how you would think that's what I was doing, but if it's more that just the non-angry vibe was reminiscent of prior scum reactions I suppose that makes sense
I think that post would really only be performative in the way you're suggesting if we're buddies though. Like if you're town and I'm scum why would I make that post?"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
In post 5921, Thestatusquo wrote:I thought the reaction to me after the reaction test was townie. I thought the post about not knowing their slot had already claimed is townie. (I know that's something that IS fakeable but I don't feel like many scum players would think to fake it in the moment.) I've liked his tone, though that's less of a big deal, and I liked how he seemed to be trying to read the reactions to him being reaction tested for alignment.
hmmmmm I think these feel a bit more likely to come from someone uninformed of scum!MenaIn post 5922, Thestatusquo wrote:And the big thing with Obscure for me was just the lack of thread presence and seemingly only interested in his name which I think is something that is incredibly plausible to come from overwelmed town which is why I moved off it at the end of the day yesterday. I don't think there's a very concrete reason to scum read obscure so I am extremely open to seeing new things from mena and I've generally thought what I've seen has been pretty good.
I had the exact same thought about the "wait lol my slot claimed" post and I remember really liking that from TSQ at the time"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
gonna be around for a bit and rereading more of the game and most likely thought dumping some more takes into the thread
I think I'm leaning DV overall because on the whole I keep finding more things that prompt me to think town!TSQ but I don't really feel great about it, because there's always the world where that's just a function of volume of posts and thread presence. I think for TSQ to be scum they have to be really quite good at acting uninformed in both subtle and in-your-face ways, and good at consistently maintaining that persona throughout. but that's not impossible, which is why I'm not feeling great.
whereas DV is like... eh he hasn't done anythingwrongthat I feel good about nailing him on, he's just less involved overall and so the explanation in that world is that he's scum who's done exactly what he's needed to in order to pass and blend in and is now just getting POE'd out. but that's never a satisfying case when that's the best you have"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
Reading Ausuka's 6289 and then rereading some of that early D2 Shea/Gamma fight is also pushing me pretty solidly more to town!TSQ
like I know Shea's been harping the whole time on how it's wack to think they bussed Gamma in that manner but are these S-S interactions? hard to say yes right?
In post 2785, Gamma Emerald wrote:
What the hell are you talking about?In post 2782, Thestatusquo wrote:And now your scum team which you've now explicitly said was a team guess includes me and a person who basically no one had expressed any suspicion of until I brought it up in a game where the wolves just lost a member on N1.
Which doesn't make a whole ton of sense to me either.You do realizeI said “one of”, right?In post 2786, Thestatusquo wrote:nope, I missed that word. Genuine apologies. Point completely rescinded.
plus this post, which is especially wild to write if you know for a fact that HEM is scum:In post 2797, Gamma Emerald wrote:
No, wrong. I specifically said TM 2021. You were in that one, though not in my game, but know FOR A FACT you were there!In post 2790, Thestatusquo wrote:Ok I actually did the thing and briefly skimmed gammas iso in white flag which is the team mafia game she is referring to.
(viewtopic.php?t=74687&f=127&st=0&sk=t&s ... er_sort=Go) for anyone wondering.
And I have to say...I find your day one play there completely different in a lot of different ways. And the most obvious one is that you DO seem invested in finding scum and flipping someone you're suspicious of. You DO seem invested in engaging with people about their reads. You DO feel like you're trying to scum hunt.
Now, its a team mafia game so everyone amps up their tryhard a little bit for those games so I don't think its like definitive or anything, but its the game YOU brought up as the one where I should remember as you playing like you're playing here as town is normal.
And its simply not. It's not remotely the same. It's not even close.In post 2960, Thestatusquo wrote:
It feels like you're making a squishy meta feels case here that involves actively ignoring a lot of what HEM is actually doing in order to accomplish it, so the read doesn't feel real to me either.In post 2942, Gamma Emerald wrote:
he's basically felt fake all game to me, between the overly verbose post I called out early and his approach to meIn post 2815, Dannflor wrote:Gamma why is HEM scum
there's also a slight meta aspect, he feels rather reactive, which I attribute to his scumgame
To me, looking through HEMs posts theres a lot of stuff which is interesting novel thoughts on game and relation to the alignment of others that would be really strange to come from a scum player and hard to fake because they involve breaking the flow of the game which in some cases would be detrimental to scum.
Take this post, for example. Why would scum HEM feel the need to point this out at this time? Unless you think he and I are buddies there's very little reason that HEM would think this is a good topic of conversation for town to take, because it detracts from the momentum of the suspicion of me. Like, I guess you are saying that you think HEM and I are buddies because its a game solve but when I read back on HEMs iso theres a lot of stuff like this that individually seems like pointing out little things that are interesting for the town to think about.In post 2727, humaneatingmonkey wrote:
i wonder if this is a direct reaction to TSQ mentioning that scum loves to dogpile replacementsIn post 2710, scamper wrote:UNVOTE:
while i am still very suspicious of the relly slot i feel like i dont need to dogpile someone who has just replaced in
I don't see a lot of scum motivation for a lot of HEMs posting, and I think its hard to fake because its not like not doing this stuff will get you scum read and the effects on the game are net negative for scum."I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
In post 5984, Nero Cain wrote:do you guys think its only 4 scum, right?In post 5985, Datisi wrote:idk, why does that matter?In post 5986, Thestatusquo wrote:idk we have a lot of power so far.
does this mean anything with regard to TitusIn post 5987, Nero Cain wrote:it matters to me
it's late and I'm sleepy but there's no way this is a SK feeling out when to kill scum, right? probably just town feeling out when to kill scum?
every now and then I have these moments where I'm like "blah what if BOTH TSQ/DV are town, it must be Titus!" but it just feels throwingly bad to entertain that narrative when she's killed a mafia
Titus can you be a bit more proactive with your solve here? any thoughts on the pushback on your 6 scum theory? who do you think is town remaining?"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
can you round out that thought a little bit moreIn post 9041, DeasVail wrote:I very seriously believe this might point to Shea as scumIn post 2599, obscure wrote:Who did status replace?
obscure did attempt to play up the newbie card & dumbtell several times so I think I get what you're suggesting, but isn't it pretty conceivable that he could post that about town!TSQ?"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
also DV, assuming you are town:
is this scum coordinating together? this kinda feels to me more like scum reacting to and amplifying a townpost. I guess it's not impossible scum would see a buddy pushing on a townie and give them a +1 but vibewise I feel like that's less likely. Like the enthusiastic "YES" feels like it's meant more to buddy TSQ in my mindIn post 3099, obscure wrote:
YESIn post 3072, Thestatusquo wrote:I also am more worried about deasvail the more he continues to just exist on the periphery.
are they still here? This was my scumread yesterday I felt good about.
Dan and Deas I could both see as scum."I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
quoted becauseIn post 3242, DeasVail wrote:The VP flip is new information that honestly supersedes my original read. I obviously had reasons for suspecting GL but it’s not like those concerns are ever going to be “addressed”. It’s a matter of me deciding “do my reasons for suspecting GL still hold up, or have subsequent events proven that my read is probably wrong?”
Dann, if I were town here, would you expect me to still be scumreading GL? Do you still scumread GL?
a) Decent Dann case on DV that I forgot about
b) I don't think this is a straight up scumslip, because I think it's pretty clear DV is trying to ask Dann something akin to "why do you think town!me should still be scumreading GL", but it's definitely phrased awkwardly. Like "if I were town here" is just a clumsy clause in that sentence, even if I don't think DV isclaimingscum I feel like it's definitely an unnatural way to phrase it. Maybe he meant "if [you knew] I were town here", but then it's still in a subjunctive tense, idk.
brain is desperately trying to latch onto something I can feel good about"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
-
GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
anyway I was reading between 3099 and 3245 to get context for this naked vote, but it's ultimately pretty random. like obscure has DV as lean mafia on D1, doesn't really address it at all on D2 until TSQ shades DV and obscure has that quote post where he agrees, then obscure votes it 200 posts and several hours later, when other votes are happening not-on-DV. I can imagine it being the result of scum considering whether to actually vote their partner or not. and then he just peaces out from the thread for 2 days. if it's meant to aim for a miselim, he didn't push it at all until much later in the day
"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"