Mafia 88- Return to New Catania- Game Over!

[Sobeahero]

Bandwagons are fun! (That and I agree with the whole 'no lynch is bad' sentamant.)

Vote: Hoopla

[Sobeahero]

First off this is to answer George. I stuck with the vote, cause at the time there was no other path I saw to pursue, and there was plenty of time to await other players to speak up about it. So it seemed logical to wait it out for just a little bit and cast my vote for now. However, something else has come up.

vote: no lynch

obvscum

Don't like this. Although the random voting stage isn't particularly vital, it can often help jumpstart conversation, get reactions going, etc. This vote provides no information to the town that can be discussed later, such as voting patterns, etc. In addition, it provides very little discussion or reacting by itself, while votes on a player can help create reactions, and start conversation.

In fact, I find that depriving the town of information, even information this small, to be somewhat scummy. Although it's more definately not a solid case, it's a start, and I feel that this has more potential to get the conversation going than simply ignoring it and random voting. Therefore,

Vote: Hoopla

Unvote, Vote: GeorgeCarlin

Well done buddy. You just disproved your own argument. If voting No-Lynch didnt provoke discussion, YOU WOULDNT HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING IT. If voting no-lynch didnt illicit reactions, YOU WOULDNT HAVE VOTED FOR HOOPLA.

He left a trap, and you fell right into it.

BM

First off, he disproved nothing. The point was that vote couln't be used later for any reason, and that it seemed hoopla didn't want to start a discussion, as it would draw attention to him.

Secondly, I always have issues trusting the guy who jumps on the first dude who tries to make a point about something. Also the fact people seemed to start voting Hoopla, which shows he might be able to convince people who to vote for. Seems like someone a Mafia would want to get rid of, under the assumption he himself isn't Mafia.

I would say vote for you, cause if you are Mafia I doubt Carlin is, at least not in the same factin you are, again assuming there are more then 1. Don't get me wrong though, if you are town it doesn't show if he is one way or another. I don't see him as suspicious, so even if you get lynched and flip town, I wouldn't encourage anyone to vote Carlin yet, not until he does something incriminating.

I'll give you some words of defense though.

[Sobeahero]

Wow I missed a lot when posting that. I might be re-evaluating what I said shortly after reading it all.

[Sobeahero]

Okay, upon realizing there is a second page and catching up on the reading, I determined my points stay, and that I really want to know what FoS is.

[Sobeahero]

Thank you Hammer of Der. If I could I'd give you a cookie.

[Sobeahero]

vote: no lynch

obvscum

Don't like this. Although the random voting stage isn't particularly vital, it can often help jumpstart conversation, get reactions going, etc. This vote provides no information to the town that can be discussed later, such as voting patterns, etc. In addition, it provides very little discussion or reacting by itself, while votes on a player can help create reactions, and start conversation.

In fact, I find that depriving the town of information, even information this small, to be somewhat scummy. Although it's more definately not a solid case, it's a start, and I feel that this has more potential to get the conversation going than simply ignoring it and random voting. Therefore,

Vote: Hoopla

Unvote, Vote: GeorgeCarlin

Well done buddy. You just disproved your own argument. If voting No-Lynch didnt provoke discussion, YOU WOULDNT HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING IT. If voting no-lynch didnt illicit reactions, YOU WOULDNT HAVE VOTED FOR HOOPLA.

He left a trap, and you fell right into it.

BM

First off, he disproved nothing. The point was that vote couln't be used later for any reason, and that it seemed hoopla didn't want to start a discussion, as it would draw attention to him.

This is clearly incorrect. If he didnt want to start a discussion, why would he vote No-Lynch? Unless you really think he was expecting people to go along with it?? 0.o
If he didnt want to draw attention to himself, why would he vote No-Lynch? He did the most controversial thing, which, in my experience, means he is very unlikely to be scum. However, those attacking him are pinging my scumdar quite significantly.

Secondly, I always have issues trusting the guy who jumps on the first dude who tries to make a point about something. Also the fact people seemed to start voting Hoopla, which shows he might be able to convince people who to vote for. Seems like someone a Mafia would want to get rid of, under the assumption he himself isn't Mafia.

Lol, i dont really see your point here. So you're saying that, if he isnt scum, those people attacking GC are probably scum? Lol, seems a fair enough assumption-its the assumption i made about Hoopla and GC.

I would say vote for you, cause if you are Mafia I doubt Carlin is, at least not in the same factin you are, again assuming there are more then 1. Don't get me wrong though, if you are town it doesn't show if he is one way or another. I don't see him as suspicious, so even if you get lynched and flip town, I wouldn't encourage anyone to vote Carlin yet, not until he does something incriminating.

I'll give you some words of defense though.

Rofl. I think you're floundering mate. If you wanna vote me, stop tying yourself up in knots, and do it! But you're gonna need a better reason than "he's picking on GC".

BM

Voting No lynch doesn't seem all that controversial to me, as its easy to see why one wouldn't want to take the chance of lynching town. I'd assume he voted no Lynch and hoped people would pass right over his post and not pay it much mind. AFter all, he did vote, which makes it look like he's doing something.

And thats a good summary, if GC isn't scum, one of the ones voting for him probably is. Though most likely it would be the one who lead teh assault against him, since anyone the town is willing to listen to could prove to be bad for the Mafia if he rallys them behind that person. Basically Scum already have a reason to want him dead. :p

And my reason is more then he's picking on GC, my reason is GC would be a good target for scum to eliminate if he's town. So basically I'm deciding if he's more likely to be town, or if you are. I'm much more inclined to lynch you though, since that will at least show GC isn't aligned with you. Though sadly if you flip town we effectively learn nothing.

Though at the same time, if GC flips town we learn nothing, but if he flips scum we at least know you two aren't aligned.

Can't seem to think of any other potential lynches that could lead to some kind of information, but I didn't feel like putting all the focus of it onto GC like it had been going.

Though between the two of you, I think I'll vote you. :p

unvote

vote

Battle mage

[Sobeahero]

And on the Der Hammer thing, I think he was just being a butt. :p

[Sobeahero]

So, No lynches always get that kind of flack around here? Good to know. And yes, this is the first game on this site, the other games I've played never had the option of No Lynch, so seeing it now it doesn't really seem like a big deal to me. :p

vote: no lynch

obvscum

Don't like this. Although the random voting stage isn't particularly vital, it can often help jumpstart conversation, get reactions going, etc. This vote provides no information to the town that can be discussed later, such as voting patterns, etc. In addition, it provides very little discussion or reacting by itself, while votes on a player can help create reactions, and start conversation.

In fact, I find that depriving the town of information, even information this small, to be somewhat scummy. Although it's more definately not a solid case, it's a start, and I feel that this has more potential to get the conversation going than simply ignoring it and random voting. Therefore,

Vote: Hoopla

Unvote, Vote: GeorgeCarlin

Well done buddy. You just disproved your own argument. If voting No-Lynch didnt provoke discussion, YOU WOULDNT HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING IT. If voting no-lynch didnt illicit reactions, YOU WOULDNT HAVE VOTED FOR HOOPLA.

He left a trap, and you fell right into it.

BM

First off, he disproved nothing. The point was that vote couln't be used later for any reason, and that it seemed hoopla didn't want to start a discussion, as it would draw attention to him.

This is clearly incorrect. If he didnt want to start a discussion, why would he vote No-Lynch? Unless you really think he was expecting people to go along with it?? 0.o
If he didnt want to draw attention to himself, why would he vote No-Lynch? He did the most controversial thing, which, in my experience, means he is very unlikely to be scum. However, those attacking him are pinging my scumdar quite significantly.

Secondly, I always have issues trusting the guy who jumps on the first dude who tries to make a point about something. Also the fact people seemed to start voting Hoopla, which shows he might be able to convince people who to vote for. Seems like someone a Mafia would want to get rid of, under the assumption he himself isn't Mafia.

Lol, i dont really see your point here. So you're saying that, if he isnt scum, those people attacking GC are probably scum? Lol, seems a fair enough assumption-its the assumption i made about Hoopla and GC.

I would say vote for you, cause if you are Mafia I doubt Carlin is, at least not in the same factin you are, again assuming there are more then 1. Don't get me wrong though, if you are town it doesn't show if he is one way or another. I don't see him as suspicious, so even if you get lynched and flip town, I wouldn't encourage anyone to vote Carlin yet, not until he does something incriminating.

I'll give you some words of defense though.

Rofl. I think you're floundering mate. If you wanna vote me, stop tying yourself up in knots, and do it! But you're gonna need a better reason than "he's picking on GC".

BM

Voting No lynch doesn't seem all that controversial to me, as its easy to see why one wouldn't want to take the chance of lynching town. I'd assume he voted no Lynch and hoped people would pass right over his post and not pay it much mind. AFter all, he did vote, which makes it look like he's doing something.

Is this your first game on site? Over here, Voting No Lynch at any time where it is not an optimal play is something that people LOVE to jump on.

And thats a good summary, if GC isn't scum, one of the ones voting for him probably is. Though most likely it would be the one who lead teh assault against him, since anyone the town is willing to listen to could prove to be bad for the Mafia if he rallys them behind that person. Basically Scum already have a reason to want him dead. :p

That is on the assumption he is town, which isnt one id be looking at currently. It also makes the claim that scum are more likely to start a case rather than tag along to one, something which i also disagree with in general.

And my reason is more then he's picking on GC, my reason is GC would be a good target for scum to eliminate if he's town. So basically I'm deciding if he's more likely to be town, or if you are. I'm much more inclined to lynch you though, since that will at least show GC isn't aligned with you. Though sadly if you flip town we effectively learn nothing.

Joy. So you want to lynch me in order to 'prove' that GC isnt scum, excluding the obvious possibility of bussing, and acknowledge that if i am town, not only do we waste a day completely, but we have night to contend with, and you ignore the possibility that i am a power role. Joy.

Though between the two of you, I think I'll vote you. :p

unvote

vote

Battle mage

*sigh*

Why?

BM

I never ignored the possibility you are a power role. I'm just not ignoring the possibility that you are Mafia either. You voted GC. Ever though maybe HE might be a power role? That seems like a very weak defense. :p

And I only acknowledge that if you are town and lynched, we waste a lynch on a town and learn nothing. But guess what? Same thing happens if GC is town. If he's lynched town, we learn nothing. Unless you can give me a reason why him flipping town yields any additional information, you're voting at the same risks I am. :p

next, Scum aren't inherently going to lay dormant or be active, I just tend to notice in a few games Scum like to take out those with an opinion early on in the game.

And on the Case of GC, its hard to tell how many people voted Hoopla because of him. But he both had an opinion, and people started voting hoopla after him, so its entirely possible Mafia would want him dead.

Yes, everything so far is based on possibility and guesswork, but its not like anyone can do much better day one anyway.

And I pick you over GC for this simple reason, you've been rather redundant with yoru reasonings why me voting for you is silly.

-We get no info if you flip town? We get no info if GC flips town either. We are both taking the same risk if we are both town, so its a silly argument.

-Saying you disagree with the sentamant that Scum would start instead of follow? They can do both, so thats not much of a point. :p

- The whole 'I could be a power role' line? Same goes for GC.

In short, I vote for you for redundant and pointless defenses. :p

[Sobeahero]

Don't want to go back teh page to quote, but this is directed at BM. :p

I did give a reason to vote for you. It looked suspicious to me for you to jump on the first guy who formed an opinion. Thats why I picked you over him. :p

And defenses was probably a bad word to use on my part. Your 'reasoning' is probably a better thing to say. :p

And in regards to the information on voting. I know any lynch can turn up information, so I should have specified you or GC can possibly give MORE information then others. :p

[Sobeahero]

Well, for now I"m satisfied with my little squables with BM. Time to turn my focus onto another man.

And that man is.......Der Hammer
DUN DUN DUNN!!!!

He has yet to comment on any major event, nor has he really said ANYTHING relevant, except point out what FoS was to me.

As with the original reason for going after Hoopla, there really isn't a lot we can gauge from Der Hammers actions so far today. Therefore I'd like to see some more thoughts of the Hammer of Der posted in the near future. I'll try and sift through to find the other people who are mostly inactive and haven't posted much relevent soon, but I"m to tired to dig through all this again right now. :p

[Sobeahero]

To Farside, Yeah, there are definately others. Der Hammer was just the one that caught my eye is all.

That, and if you didn't notice, my focus tends to stay on one person at a time. If not taken care of by someone else, here soon I am likely to start jumping on more people that fit in to a similar Category as the Hammer of Der.

And as for people who just did a random vote and nothing else I see as a bit less suspicious. Multiple posts that offer nothing, like with Der, tend to slide under the radar easier then one random vote. He even prodded someone, however it was over a silly self vote that was more then likely a joke. He probably did that so it looked like he at least tried to do something.

Not saying we should drag focus off those who made one random vote, just saying more focus should be put on a person like the Hammer of Der. :p

I'll be back later and try to get a list of people who I feel fit more into the profile I put Der into though, try to get them all talking. :p

Imma go out and eat first though, I'm feeling a serious lack of protien in my diet.

Hope that suffices you Farside. :p

[Sobeahero]

Well, for now I"m satisfied with my little squables with BM. Time to turn my focus onto another man.

And that man is.......Der Hammer
DUN DUN DUNN!!!!

He has yet to comment on any major event, nor has he really said ANYTHING relevant, except point out what FoS was to me.

As with the original reason for going after Hoopla, there really isn't a lot we can gauge from Der Hammers actions so far today. Therefore I'd like to see some more thoughts of the Hammer of Der posted in the near future. I'll try and sift through to find the other people who are mostly inactive and haven't posted much relevent soon, but I"m to tired to dig through all this again right now. :p

Not sure this is really a relevant post to be honest? There were people who were less active than me which you seemingly ignored, yet you plucked me from the crowd. I will try and make my thoughts more known soon on the main events of the day.

You were more active without actually contributing anything though. Seemed like a way to make people think you were active without actually giving town anything to gauge you on. In addition people who post less would look more suspicious then the guy who keeps posting.

And as I told Farside, there were others like you, you just happened to be at the top of my head. Possibly because I think Hammer of Der sounds cool. :p

[Sobeahero]

Well, for now I"m satisfied with my little squables with BM. Time to turn my focus onto another man.

And that man is.......Der Hammer
DUN DUN DUNN!!!!

He has yet to comment on any major event, nor has he really said ANYTHING relevant, except point out what FoS was to me.

As with the original reason for going after Hoopla, there really isn't a lot we can gauge from Der Hammers actions so far today. Therefore I'd like to see some more thoughts of the Hammer of Der posted in the near future. I'll try and sift through to find the other people who are mostly inactive and haven't posted much relevent soon, but I"m to tired to dig through all this again right now. :p

Not sure this is really a relevant post to be honest? There were people who were less active than me which you seemingly ignored, yet you plucked me from the crowd. I will try and make my thoughts more known soon on the main events of the day.

You were more active without actually contributing anything though. Seemed like a way to make people think you were active without actually giving town anything to gauge you on. In addition people who post less would look more suspicious then the guy who keeps posting.

And as I told Farside, there were others like you, you just happened to be at the top of my head. Possibly because I think Hammer of Der sounds cool. :p

I disagree with the premise here. I'd say lurking in plain sight is generally picked up on more than hardcore lurking.

BM

Doesn't mean people aren't going to try it anyway in hopes of it working. :p

I learned just because something seems silly to do, you shouldn't discount it.

For example, I played in a game where I thought this one dude wasn't Mafia because what he did was so damn stupid I swore there was no possible way he could be mafia. Turned out he was Godfather. XD

So just because he's doing something that gets him picked on more, doesn't mean he shouldn't be picked in. :p

[Sobeahero]

Alright, another person thats doing some odd things right now is Shanba.

Most of what he been doing is agreeing or disagreeing with peoples posts, and being extremely vague in just about everything he says. Perhaps he only really didn't have much of an Idea and decided that it other people came up with good arguments and followed along, or maybe he just happened to have teh same Idea.

Though it still seems odd so far he's doen almost nothing but agree or disagree. If I missed some of your posts that said otherwise, feel free to point them out to me, cause theres always the chance I missed over something. :p

[Sobeahero]

At times like this, I wonder, What would Bryan Boitono do?

[Sobeahero]

I agree with you for the most part.

Though lurker hunts are good for day 2 to hit all those people who dodged doing anything day 1. Also, I don't want BM to slow down the posting. The more he posts, the more information he gives. The more info he gives, the closer we get to confirming his alignment.

[Sobeahero]

Also, Shanba, while I'm not going to let BM get away with lurking, I also am wondering why you were pushing him in that direction. I don't buy the whole "BM posting means we get less info about everyone else" bit; if anything, I think BM's activity and agressivness has pushed everyone else to be more active and to post more then they would in a "normal" mafiascum game.

I respectfully disagree.

In my experience, it's much more difficult to contribute to a game which is dominated by one player or one argument. You know those situations where two players are going at it hammer and tongs, posting ever longer lists of refutations and accusations at each other? Those make it very difficult for other players, as there's a tendency to sit back and watch the show.

Similarly, BM's posting dominating the thread makes it hard for other players to rise to the forefront. I believe his discussions about Hoopla, for example, have reduced the amount of information we would have received should Hoople have had to present the information his/herself.

Furthermore, it hurts the game going forwards, too - the larger the weight of information, the harder it is for players to catch up, to replace in or to reread the thread. And besides, when there's all this extraneous information about one player, other stuff about other players may get lost in the mass of BM's posts.

You say that people are contributing more than normal. Look at your list of lurkers above. That seems larger than normal. Other players are not contributing much - I fall into that category, as sobeahero pointed out below, as does Der Hammer.

Wait, you're blaming yoru lack of contributing on someone else talking alot? There was nothing stopping you from voicing an opinion on what was going on. Nothing. I refuse to accept hiding behind something like that as a legitamite excuse.

Unvote
Vote: Shanba

[Sobeahero]

These are are in response to the new guy. :[

17:Bandwagons are fun is hardly the reasoning. I just agreed with GC at the time. Had you read the paranthasese, you'd have noticed that. No lynches don't really show anything about the person, thus I don't really like it. :p

41: How can you be sure I was wrong though? If you beleive that, you'd have to take Hoopla for his word on things. There is no garuntee that had discussion not started, if he ever would have brought himself into the limelite. But he was called out enough that there really isn't much choice for him to do anything else. So why is it you, by default, seem to believe Hoopla? Do you have a reason to trust his word?

72: There is not direct controdiction. I say I did not Contraversial, though I still think it looked scummy. Something being contraversial, on the same note, doesn't by default make it a scummy move.

In additon, I never said it would lcear GC, simply show that the two are not on the same anti-town faction, assuming there are more then one faction in this game. GC will not be cleared even if BM were to be scum. But even learning that theres a faction GC isn't on that does get us closer to confirming his Alignment.

88: Well If I missed the point, care to explain it rather then going "HE doesn't undersatnd, clearly he is suspicious."

215: I even asked them at the time to show me any posts where that wasn't true. They never came through, so I went under that assumption. Its true, AFTER that post I saw Shanaba actually arguing, but previosly his posts consisted of repeats of what everyone else said, and a few other vague claims. Agian, show me where I'm wrong and I'll conceed the point. :p

And how is voting for someone to reveal someone elses alignment stupid for starters? Day one you can never be too sure of your accusations, so you go off your best guesses. Even in me and BM's little argument, he agreed some of my reasoning for voting him was his same reasoning for voting GC, so how can you say my reasoning is crap when BM is used teh some of that very same reasoning, something you have been constantly saying is a good thing due to yoru constant praising of BM and his posts?

Next, Its ratehr clear I'm not just targetting certain inactives. first was Hoopla, then BM, followed by Der and Shanba. Shanba and BM had posted quite a bit, so I was hardly looking for certain inactives. :p

Finally, I still find "I may be a power role scummy" because all that does is try to scare someone away from voting you. Nothing more. Its not using an actual defense, its a fear tactic. Not something I myself find something a likely move for a town.

Feel free to counter and tell me any points I missed against me. I'll look back over your post afterwords and comment on anything else I notice, I don't do to well when trying to focus on to many things, and your post is full of crap to focus on. :p

[Sobeahero]

Okay, I'm going to be unable to return to the world of teh web for a while, so Imma need replace.

This makes me sad panda.