Mafia 85 - Murder at the Bus Stop (game over)

[Muerrto]

I ask you guys hold off on the claim and any lynching till I can get caught up please.

Thanks.

Oh and hello =)

[Muerrto]

Update: reading now, making notes as I do it, up to page 6, you guys dwelled on lurking to the point I beat my head into my keyboard and it didn't work any more and I had to get another(jk but still geez, what's with the lurker theory for 6 pages?)

[Muerrto]

No he's not my alt and I work and I'm studying for my Net+ cert and carrying on a long distance relationship =p But I'm on page 12 and about to start reading again. I hope to be done tonight or tomorrow.

Oh and so far I endorse a vote on Al4xz or Surye who've received the most minuses from my analysis.

[Muerrto]

Ok you asked for it. This will be disjointed because I'm typing it as I read page by page and noting things that catch my eye. It also won't be punctuated, capitalized etc after this part. Thank you.

You pressure them by voting, although it's stupid to mention this. Now, everyone knows this including the lurkers. Due to this, they won't care about your vote.

QFT how the hell can you threaten lurkers by telling lurkers they're threatened before you even do it?! I was like umm..that kind of destroyed the whole point, and what's worse

Yup. All in favor of pressuring, and possibly lynching lurkers?

Vote: Al4xz

lynching someone for lurking alone is simply bad, period

and OMG the lurker discussion KEEPS going on and on and on...

liked Wall's post about the lurker discussion and stopping it, he gets a plus. Also clarifying what he thinks about lynching lurkers and the difference between doing it day 1 and day 5, another plus. Asks some good questions, but then adds he thinks's Cream's scummy, taints the question for everyone else. Loses a plus but still comes out looking good.

Of course. Mega, by doing this, unintentionally or not, you've caused a stir of talking that both allows you to pretend your contributing and lurk in the open at the same time. Though, if it helps, I don't think you're too scummy. But perhaps that's because you're not contributing much.

That's some serious pot/kettle talk there. Another minus for you

mega starts panicking a little too much for one vote on him. disagree if you want but don't freak, minus

Surye knocks on SirT for voting Empking and joins the wagon on SirT saying he's not contributing, but neither is Empking, huge minus for Surye especially since the way he said it was like jumping on a wagon:

I'm starting to side with the SirT votes.

this is also pot/kettle talk. nother minus for you.

I hate knowing Tornado's town because Mora' hounding on him looks really bad on Mora, trying to remember he doesn't know T's town

Farside echoes what I just said about Surye's Tornado vote, kudos for you

I really, really hate knowing Tornado's town because his constant relying on meta of HIMSELF is soooo bad, omg ANOTHER post about your meta with link quotes to other games? dude, meta does not clear you, period.

Surye jumps off the Tornado wagon when it slows down, still not liking him

woohoo Mora counters Tornado's meta with meta of him being scum, not only an awesome post but something I was DYING to see, god I hate meta, sadly they're both dead and town so eh, maybe Tornado will remember that next game

Shanba comments on meta, the problem is meta'ing YOURSELF is bad, it sounds like you're trying to convince everyone you can't be scum if you act a certain way, why would town have to convince anyone? minus for you since if you're scum you know Tornado is town

Because a vote with no reasons stated on a player who has no other votes is a good way of getting a quick mislynch?

Ok nevermind, loved this post, people are always too scared to place their vote and always feel like they have to post a book explaining why they did it, the thread is there for all to see, read it and figure out why someone voted

side note: god am I glad Tornado's dead his playstyle of only asking questions was grating on me something awful just 10 pages in...

Slicey lurks forever then comes in, UNvotes, FoS's emp because he was encouraging a quick lynch in a game this size by telling people to vote??? Ugh, glad he's town too...

Xtomx comes out of lurkdom and posts nothing but fluff....

Al4xz does the same and responds to it posting no content...

minus for both

Wall, how was an analysis of how many posts people did anything similar to a PBPA? Mora, what exactly was going through your head when you decided to do that after posting no content for a few pages? And finally, anyone on that list at 11 pages who had LESS than 10 posts should either be replaced or ashamed

oh and Mora, you only had 11, seems to kind of incriminate yourself posting that list but since you're dead, shrug

ok, Wall corrected the PBPA thing but while posting how many posts each person made does mean he read the thread, it also didn't contribute jack to the scumhunt, only serves to bring the lurker discussion up AGAIN

Wall gets a minus and so does everyone under 10 posts, that's just pitiful

Dynamo makes his 3rd post of the game to defend Mora saying at least he's contributing, are you kidding me? 3rd post in 11 pages? you get another minus ugh

Nice try though.

Are you even paying attention to this game?

Your post is full of silly.

ugh minus...should be 3...

insulting people who attack you makes your 'case' look weak and your stance shaky

and it worked in that respect

He's twisting the situation against me for an easy vote. And it's quite sad how transparent and useless it is.

because you're in danger of being lynched and you're an easy target?

*crickets* I don't see any others scrambling for you to be strung up

minus

I love seeing scum resort to these posts to undermine cases against them

ack we don't need more unvotes we need more votes!!! stop being scared to vote someone, wtf

RBT shows up and unvotes and that's it? No context? bleh

Ok, everyone pretend Mora's post about Pro's and Con's doesn't exist since he's confirmed town. voting out lurkers is pro-town?? not so much, voting to pressure and SAYING it's just for pressure is pro-town? hm... releasing a pbpa without the 'a' is pro-town? I can actually read the thread for myself you know, if the 'a' is missing I don't need a narrator

watching for who agrees with this post of his too easily

I can understand the confusion, as I attacked Moratorium for his PBP(not)A.

Is that patent pending? Cause if not I'm stealing it.

The rest of your post hinges on that, so I don't have a response to such nonsense.

Since you all are harping on the pretending to play, I assure you that you're all getting tunnel vision

You're being so ridiculous.

Your posts look kind of ridiculous in isolation, yes?

I was going to post a sarcastic response to your obvious misinterpretation of something, but I have no idea what you're on about.

sorry I can't stop quoting these...

Surye leaps on Slicey for horribly weak reasons. 1. Armlx is questioning Slicey as to why he is ok with voting Empking BUT at the same time saying he's simply voting him to get the game moving. 2. Wall is voting him because he unvoted his random vote? Do what? You jump on and vote him tailing their reasons. Nasty stuff...

WHOA! RBT jumps in after barely posting at all and votes Slicey with

I am also agreeing with the current wagon on Slicey.

Who doesn't have a problem with him making a deliberate case against a player that is absolutly false, so false that it would be unreasonable to think he was just "mistaken". (Take a look at Emp in isolation if you don't think this is the case, seriously.)

Defending Emp...

I'd just like to note this wagon moved way too fast to not be scum powered in some way, regardless of Slicey's alignment.

QFT

Ugh! I made a long post concerning Slicey and it got CPU Quotaed. =.=

OK, who cares. Damn the post.

Vote: Slicey

for the reasons everyone has stated. I'm not gonna go type that up again. =.=

No offense but after your earlier posts I don't buy this at all...and this is a lynch -1 vote. How the hell did this wagon start? Wall voted him because he unvoted during the random stage? Can anyone point out a single scummy post Slicey made??

Wall's following the crowd, unvotes right after Arlmx and vote's right after him too...that was eerie...

Why? I see no reason to continue day 1. Slicey's convinced me he's scum. What's the point of waiting till tommorow? And if we don't kill him today, who's going to be today's victim? Mind you, I'm not too eager on going for yet ANOTHER scum hunt without at least gaining a bit more knowledge from Night 1.

That's some pretty gung ho position on someone being scum for someone who's hardly posted and has never voiced a single suspiscion of him till you voted him....

I'm interested to see who hammers.

*smack* why did you just scare scum into not hammering? Altho I think mostif not all of them are on the wagon already, still a bad thing to say, obviously you want to pay attention to who hammers, but

quietly

I never said I was blaming the hammerer for a mislynch if one happens. I was only not absolving them of being related to the lynch if they do and it flips that Slicey was town.

So you're making extremely obvious statements to appear active.

Noted.

Armlx has the highest post count in the game to date...this post makes me cry

what exacty were you trying to pull off here? reason to get a lynch on Armlx day 2? we'll have to see in the coming pages...

Slepz made 7 posts day 1...and the 7th was this:

So now we wait. I can't see Slicey defending himself, though. Maybe he's waiting until the last minute for suspense

In fact pretty much all you did was vote Slicey and most of your posts are 1 liners...

This Slicey lynch is horrible. People say he acted scummy, where, quote it, people say he got people's hackles up, where, quote it, there are NO quotes in these posts people, this is bad, town should've noticed this, bad lynch

WE, if you're vote on Slicey was not a joke vote, then it is terribly poor reasoning.

thank GOD the town finally showed up...

This is the best D1 wagon I have ever seen. I hope you plan to read the game.

Can we lynch this guy instead?

Sure you can, just keep telling yourself that.

Did you just post that fluff after days of lurking??

Cuz clearly, swapping major wagons with 2 hours till deadline is going to result in an optimal scenario.

Hmm...I see you as town so far but Xtomx wasn't voting Slicey so switching his vote doesn't really matter. He also said he thinks Slicey is town, in fact he said he's 100% sure Slicey is town...

I agree(even without hindsight)

There are suspicious things going on. I'm not moving my vote, but this will all come up tomorrow, that's for sure.

No comment...

I think we should lynch someone who voted Slicey today.

Not sure where to place my vote yet. Still need to read up, I guess. I'll think about it.

That, or someone who jumped ship last minute. Both are good sources for the next vote.

Wow...you're really pushing that angle, day 1 now day 2...

I'm not much liking Xtoxm's jumpy, schitzophrenic behavior today.

I'll bet

Vote:Surye

Because he seems very eager to post, jumping up and down, but at the same time not saying much. I also don't like that 'people who jumped ship' comment. If you have suspicions, when don't you just state them clearly.

I endorse this product.

Wall-E and Al4xz both distancing Surye? Hm... maybe I wrote off Wall-E too much, but Al4xz saying it and FoS'ing him RIGHT after Wall...

No one else interested in Surye? What about this post from him just before night?

There are suspicious things going on. I'm not moving my vote, but this will all come up tomorrow, that's for sure.

SL's my hero

I agree for the RBT vote on Surye but I hate the reason...def bussing/distancing if Surye flips scum


So that's it:

FoS: Wall

FoS: Al4xz

FoS: RBT

Unvote, Vote: Surye

And Slepz, Blak, Cream(to a lesser extent), Emp(ditto), Jebus, Ala, Mega, and K7(not crossing my fingers here) need to post some content...like now.

[Muerrto]

I attacked did not attack him, nice misdirection. (See all cases where he basically claims ad-hominem, but I am not insulting the person at all, but their point.)

Is that really all you have? I'll give you this, you formulated your case better then RBT (heh, "case"), but yours is on just as weak ground. I know I pushed for a lynch that ended in a town death, and I did so on a rock solid case that no one D1 called me on for a reason. D2 is easy to attack it when you know that Slicey is town, but I did not know that then, just like you all did not. I will always push a case I feel solid.

First off, if I'm 'misdirecting' then you're saying I'm scum. Because town doesn't misdirect. I could be

wrong

if I'm town but not on purpose.

So, do you suspect me of being scum because I'm suspect of you or do you have a 'case' on me or did you want to reword that attack on me?

Second, the case was faaaaar from solid. Can you summarize the case for me using only quotes please? That way we can be sure it's from day 1 and not hindsight.

[Muerrto]

Good thing I was there to clarify.

Psst..you're still doing it.

[Muerrto]

You know what f$ck all of you. I spent a f$cking week reading this damn thread because YOU guys needed a damn replacement. I post a loooong ass post and all you guys can do is respond with 1 liners saying you're unimpressed and you don't like it? F$ucking refute it then or kiss my a$$.

I'll post again next week maybe. Replace me if you need to before I post again.

That is my second biggest pet peeve, treating replacements like $hit.

[Muerrto]

Muer

al4xz wrote:
Yup. All in favor of pressuring, and possibly lynching lurkers?

Vote: Al4xz

lynching someone for lurking alone is simply bad, period

Possibly lynching. Do note my wording, please. I said possibly, as in if someone were to act scummy before, get off the hook, then lurk, etc.
That's the only point I can defend, really..

Yes but people were already talking about what to do with lurkers, then you asked everyone about lynching lurkers looking for approval. Sounds like you wanted to make sure your stance on it was ok before going forward, that's what scum would do. Town wouldn't need approval.


As for being offended, that's not it at all. It took me a week to read 30 pages and put up that post. It took each person approx 5 minutes to read and I got a bunch of 1-liners that mean jack and $hit. The only ones to comment directly on my post at all are you(Al4xz) and Surye and you guys only commented on YOUR part.

SO, I charge everyone to go through and dissect my post. I could care less if you disagree with it, I'm just pissed a week of my life has just burned away and I want it back because apparently I should've replaced in and said screw it I'm not reading the earlier pages I'm starting from here.

ALSO, if you're 'unimpressed' etc, how? Does it sound contrived? Or simply incorrect? Does it sound like scum trying to build a false case or town trying to scum hunt, even if you think it's wrong?

Saying you're unimpressed tells me nothing and is either a scum cop out or lazy town.

[Muerrto]

QFT how the hell can you threaten lurkers by telling lurkers they're threatened before you even do it?! I was like umm..that kind of destroyed the whole point, and what's worse

You pre-empt the behavior. The threat of a threat turns into the threatening action, thus dragging lurkers out.

No, you tell the lurkers you're gonna put pressure on them but not lynch them therefore destroying the pressure. I don't know who it was now that said votes cause pressure by themselves but that's bull. Maybe to a complete newbie but not in a game with experienced players. This comment destroyed any hope of preventing lurking, which we've seen so far this game.

I hate knowing Tornado's town because Mora' hounding on him looks really bad on Mora, trying to remember he doesn't know T's town

Why does knowing T's town change your opinion of this?

Because if they're both town it doesn't matter if they attack each other. There's no bad side in it.

Armlx is questioning Slicey as to why he is ok with voting Empking BUT at the same time saying he's simply voting him to get the game moving.

I also agreed with Shanba's reasons and felt he was at least fairly scummy.

Slicey? Naw. The original vote on him was because he unvoted in the random stage. Then he called Emp out for a pretty scummy post(telling people to vote while not actually contributing anything to the thread) and he got piled on after that. Sadly he gave up which didn't help but the case as a whole was extremely weak. I still wanna see the whole case quoted completely from day 1 by someboday. Surye said he would but hasn't yet.

*smack* why did you just scare scum into not hammering? Altho I think mostif not all of them are on the wagon already, still a bad thing to say, obviously you want to pay attention to who hammers, but quietly

Was too busy thinking Slicey was scum.

That was more of a 'duh' thing not a 'you're scum' thing. I don't see the suspiscion on you at all. I do think you might be playing a little looser than I've seen in the past though. I was pretty surprised at the Slicey wagon and the fact you're backing it up still today surprised me.

That said, I'm slightly unsure on the Surye wagon. I'm going to go back and do a read of his posts soon to see what I think.

What I don't like about Muerrto's post is a large amount of time near the start spent talking about the actions of people who are dead that didn't involve interactions with currently living people.

I had to analyze the thread WITHOUT hindsight so I tried to do just that. I did mention in a few places where someone was already dead but I tried to avoid that so I didn't skew my own opinions.

bolding mine

[Muerrto]

I can't see Xtomx playing this badly as scum(well town either) but I gotta agree the wagon on him looks poor and it's being spear headed by Surye and now backed up by Wall and Al4xz...just sayin...

[Muerrto]

Muerrto:

Vote: Al4xz

lynching someone for lurking alone is simply bad, period

and OMG the lurker discussion KEEPS going on and on and on...

I did not like this at all. In my early games, I always pretty much fully supported any lurker lynch. And it is not a scumtell. Often scum lurk, I find.

Lynching someone for lukring alone is not simply bad, in fact i'd say it's often a very good reason on it's own.

I don't know what you're on about with your pot/kettle stuff, or why you gave out those minuses...

Pot calling the kettle black. Accusing someone of something they're doing themselves(lurking for example, barely posting, etc.). The pluses and minuses are town and scum points respectively. Al4xz and Surye came out the most negative by far with Wall a very distant 3rd and RBT a close 4th.

Lynching someone for lurking alone is a guess, period. No one anywhere will ever be able to bring enough evidence to convince me otherwise. Demon pineapple posted twice all of day 1. Was he lurking or not playing? Obv not playing since he posted to confirm and to random vote, that's it. So how do you differentiate?

I really, really hate knowing Tornado's town because his constant relying on meta of HIMSELF is soooo bad, omg ANOTHER post about your meta with link quotes to other games? dude, meta does not clear you, period.

I find meta is sometimes the best thing to form a read on. Not always, ofcourse, but sometimes.

Why is it bad to meta yourself?

I have in the past stated that i'm obvtown by my standards when i've been town.

Because as scum wouldn't you have motivation to LIE and try and meta yourself town? Meta'ing yourself is like saying 'Well I act like this as town and this as scum so since I'm acting like this I must be town.' WIFOM anyone?

This Slicey lynch is horrible. People say he acted scummy, where, quote it, people say he got people's hackles up, where, quote it, there are NO quotes in these posts people, this is bad, town should've noticed this, bad lynch

<3

plus?

Huge plus that you were about the only one who saw how bad the lynch was. I'm still waiting for my quoted day 1 'case'.

Wall-E and Al4xz both distancing Surye? Hm... maybe I wrote off Wall-E too much, but Al4xz saying it and FoS'ing him RIGHT after Wall...

Not seeing Alex scum at all. Think Wall also looks town. Surye i'm unsure about.

What makes you see either Al4xz or Wall as town? Do you start with everyone town and just haven't seen anything scummy yet? I guess I kind of start with everyone in the middle and watch which way they slide based on their actions. Wall didn't slide much to the negative but he did slide.

Al4xz and Surye fell off the other side.

bolding mine

[Muerrto]

MOD:

Can we get some prods on the inactives please? I'm feeling like there's a lagging from people who aren't posting enough (coming from me, this is bad people).

Very bad =p Can you post please?

[Muerrto]

I'm willing to say that just by mass of posts (though I don't rely on this much) that Wall-E and Surye (who make up about 90% of the posts for the last 5-10 pages) aren't scum.

Um...please don't say that again, ever. Please.

[Muerrto]

I can see Wall distancing Surye, definitely. His vote and unvote were strange indeed, as was their conversation.

More after the weekend.

[Muerrto]

How is he not as good a lurker vote as any?

See case on cream. He advocates lynching lurkers, starts lurking, is even around to really comment on the major wagon yesterday and doesn't.

Cream also has no real history of this.

Um...this wasn't lurking tho this was a leave of absence. I don't like comparing that to lurking.

[Muerrto]

This K7 wagon is bad and I notice Al4xz and Surye jumping on for crap reasons again. I expect better out of Farside and Armlx.

[Muerrto]

This K7 wagon is bad and I notice Al4xz and Surye and Wall jumping on for crap reasons again. I expect better out of Farside and Armlx.

[Muerrto]

Why is a wagon based off a previously undisclosed by confirmed meta tell "bad"?

Meta is bad. It's so god awful hard to prove. K7 always lurks and I've seen him get pissed about being called on it before. Is he more pissed now? Maybe. But maybe he had a bad day and it's just coming out more. Who knows.

Has he been scummy this game? No. He's been lurking. He always lurks. Lynching him for his reaction to it is retarded and this wagon grew way, way too fast for him to be scum.

[Muerrto]

Did you just call meta crap and use meta to semi-clear K7 at the same time, Muerrto?

In what way did I clear him? I said saying he's scummy for that reason is crap and his lurking is and always has been a null tell. I hate meta and it should never be used to decide whether someone's scummy or not.

[Muerrto]

Whatever. You said meta was crap, and then you used meta on K7.

Right...to say it was a null tell...how is that the same?

[Muerrto]

And speaking of lurkers...did you just post after 7 days of no posting and give us a useless 1 liner?

Would you care to chime in on say...anything that's happened in the last 10 pages?

You have 25 posts in 43 pages and only 1 of those is longer than a small paragraph. Are you scum too because you're lurking? Should we meta you to see if you're usually this unhelpful?

Meta is a poor man's excuse for a case when they can't think of anything better.

[Muerrto]

WTF

Vote: Wall-E

He said K7 claimed Doc and we still lynched him anyway for information??? In what world does that happen? Lynch a claimed doc just for info?

And to get out of it he simply says 'oops' then goes onto another subject entirely voting RBT?

How the hell has no one said anything about this yet?

How does that post not make it obvious he's scum? Even if he actually thought K7 claimed, since K7 would've claimed DOC, who in their right friggin mind would've kept their vote on him EVER?

1 down...

[Muerrto]

No...

Wrong, wrong, wrong

FoS: Al4xz

for the

attempted

explanation for Wall-E's actions. HOWEVER, this doesn't explain ONE thing...

Even IF you mismatched the claims and thought K7 claimed Doc when it was actually Xtomx, how the hell did you think even for a second that we purposely lynched a claimed doctor for information?

You can't mismatch that. You actually thought we lynched someone you

thought

claimed DOCTOR for information only...whether he claimed or not is irrelevant, in your mind he claimed and was still lynched for information per your quote:

Let's face facts and move on from wah wah the doc died. I admit I saw his claim before he was lynched, but figured we needed the information. His claim should have been more heartfelt.

Vote stands and Al4xz is next when Wall flips scum.

[Muerrto]

Kuribo, if you agree your vote is misplaced.

Whether Al4xz is paying attention or not is also irrelevant. Wall

saw

a doctor claim and lynched him anyway. Your vote should be there.

Can you explain why Al4xz would be a better lynch?

[Muerrto]

Well I really can't answer that. I was being a sheep. I apologize to everyone again. College is a drag some days.

This doesn't explain how you think we lynched a doctor for information.

[Muerrto]

I can't believe Wall-E still hasn't answered my question satisfactorily and yet people are unvoting him and calling him town.

In what game have you EVER seen a claimed doctor lynched for information only?

Why did you not have a problem with this and instead told people to stop whining about him dying and move on?

Vote's not moving all day.

[Muerrto]

I just don't see what's scummy about it in the current context. I see it as lazy, since he must not have read back much, but what would be scummy is lynching a claimed doctor, he didn't, he thought we did.

I see it as a lot of things, but I'm just not able to put it to a scummy thing, hence my unvote. Maybe I'm missing something?

EBWOP: What does this accomplish for scum Wall-E?

Nothing, it was a slip. Period. But the point isn't that Wall-E didn't help lynch a claimed doctor for information, he THOUGHT he did.

You said it exactly right there. But what you're missing is that it's not what actually happened that's important. It's what he THOUGHT happened. In his mind K7 claimed doctor, we lynched him anyway for information, and the next day instead of saying 'Why the hell did we do that?' he said 'Boo hoo stop whining about the doctor being dead. I saw his claim but we lynched him anyway for information'. Basically saying it was a good lynch.

Now can anyone else say it was a good lynch? Of course, K7 never claimed anything and several people had suspiscion of him. Just like the Slicey lynch we can see in hindsight it was bad but at the time many people thought it was good. BUT, Wall-E thought K7 had claimed doctor. How can a lynch of a claimed doctor who turns out to be telling the truth possibly be good no matter what information you get out of it?

[Muerrto]

But reading through it wasn't a slip because K-7 didn't claim. So I don't get the point.

Sigh...that IS the point. It DOESN'T benefit him as scum OR town. He MESSED UP and THOUGHT K7 had claimed doctor PRIOR to the lynch. BUT if K7 HAD claimed doctor prior to the lynch we WOULDN'T have lynched him. But he THOUGHT K7 DID claim prior to the lynch and we STILL lynched him and he was OK with that.

Does that clear it up some?

I'm failing to see why Wall's not dead yet.

And Wall's defense is basically 'that'd be dumb'. Yes, yes it would. And sometimes people screw up and do dumb things. But if someone can tell me AS TOWN how Wall-E could post what he did I'm all ears.

[Muerrto]

Again, there is no way anyone could have known K7 was doc yesterday. In that context, explain how Wall-E's action is scummy.

Because he thought we just lynched a claimed doctor for information and was okay with it. No, as scum he wouldn't know he was a doctor but he also WOULDN'T CARE. Which is why he was so non-chalant 'blah blah we killed the doc' because he THOUGHT K7 claimed. While he didn't know K7 was a doctor, he DID know K7 was town. It was a slip, plain and simple, and there's just no reason a townie would make it, ever.

[Muerrto]

Just so everyone knows, I would never do that for reals.

Exactly. No one would ever lynch a claimed doctor for information only. So....

Explain. You THOUGHT you did just that and were quite okay with it...

[Muerrto]

unvote, vote Muerto

in my experience with him as scum he tries to push things too hard.

I believe Wall-E excuse is good enough to cause me to look elsewhere for now.

Can you paraphase his excuse for me and tell me how it satisfied your suspiscions?

Can you also tell me where I'm 'pushing things too hard'?

Also, what would your reaction be if you came back from being V/LA/lurking and found your vote had helped lynch a claimed doctor? Would you be like 'boo hoo doc's dead' or be like 'holy crap I leave for a little while and you guys lynch the doctor?!'

Keep in mind at this point it doesn't matter if he claimed or not because to Wall-E he did so his reaction is in response to the lynching of a CLAIMED doctor.

[Muerrto]

I believe Wall-E excuse is good enough to cause me to look elsewhere for now.

Just caught this. You do realise Wall-E never made an excuse other than 'school is tough', right? Al4xz made his excuse for him and Wall-E even simply quoted him and said 'yeah that's it'.

So I'm definitely on pins and needles waiting to hear from you what Wall-E's excuse was.

[Muerrto]

Yeah, I didn't give it much thought. I said to myself, I said, "Self, it appears we've lynched the doc for information. Let's post so we don't die while working on this

portfolio final worth half our grade

for the term."

See, I didn't give it ANY thought, I was just posting a "hm" post.

I'll talk about this as long as people want me to.

The bolding is an appeal to emotion and not your first. Saying you were busy is one thing. Going into detail is an appeal.

Mod edit
Votecount:
al4xz (5): kuribo, armlx, Wall-E, BlakAdder, RestFermata
Wall-E (2): Muerrto, al4xz
Surye (2): springlullaby, Riceballtail
Alabaska J (1): Jebus
kuribo (1): Xtoxm
Jebus (1): farside22
Muerrto (1): Alabaska J

Not voting (6): Azuma, Gremwell, Slepz, Zazier, Cream147, Surye

With 19 alive it's 10 to lynch.

[Muerrto]

So, what was it that you were trying to point out by saying that, besides that it was an appeal to emotion?

One thing you'll learn about the Wiki after playing a while is that it's not a mafiascum bible.

An appeal to emotion is basically like saying 'c'mon guys, don't lynch me, I've got it hard, everyone's got it out for me, I wanna play the game, you're all picking on me' etc. and is usually used by scum to avoid lynch by pity.

Using RL references is the most common. Not saying Wall-E hasn't been busy but saying you've been busy is different from referencing multiple times exactly what you've been busy with. First school, now sick. Both times in detail and basically saying 'Gimme a break guys'.

Learn mafia from experience, not a Wiki.

I could see newbie town doing it, but not an experienced player.


@Armlx: You rely on meta too much unless you're simply calling Ala on his inability to show said meta that he claimed was there.

[Muerrto]

@Armlx: You rely on meta too much unless you're simply calling Ala on his inability to show said meta that he claimed was there.

You would say that as it applies to you.

Um...no I've said you rely too much on meta all game. Did you want me to quote it?

[Muerrto]

You're kidding. I've gone off on meta all game and in other games in the past as well.

I really, really hate knowing Tornado's town because his constant relying on meta of HIMSELF is soooo bad, omg ANOTHER post about your meta with link quotes to other games? dude,

meta does not clear you, period

.

woohoo Mora counters Tornado's meta with meta of him being scum, not only an awesome post but something I was DYING to see,

god I hate meta

, sadly they're both dead and town so eh, maybe Tornado will remember that next game

Shanba comments on meta, the problem is meta'ing YOURSELF is bad, it sounds like you're trying to convince everyone you can't be scum if you act a certain way, why would town have to convince anyone? minus for you since if you're scum you know Tornado is town

Because as scum wouldn't you have motivation to LIE and try and meta yourself town?

Meta'ing yourself is like saying 'Well I act like this as town and this as scum so since I'm acting like this I must be town.' WIFOM anyone?

Meta is bad. It's so god awful hard to prove

. K7 always lurks and I've seen him get pissed about being called on it before. Is he more pissed now? Maybe. But maybe he had a bad day and it's just coming out more. Who knows.

Has he been scummy this game? No. He's been lurking. He always lurks. Lynching him for his reaction to it is retarded and this wagon grew way, way too fast for him to be scum.

In what way did I clear him? I said saying he's scummy for that reason is crap and his lurking is and always has been a null tell.

I hate meta and it should never be used to decide whether someone's scummy or not

.

Meta is a poor man's excuse for a case when they can't think of anything better

.

That's all from just this game. There's no reason you should've needed me to quote that after how I've been so vocal about it all game. I'm starting to wonder why you're playing less than stellar this game Armlx.

[Muerrto]

I don't see why you are so worried about Alabaska posting a referenceable game.

I'm not. I only said 'you rely on meta too much'. You do. You got 'worried' out of that? I've been saying meta sucks all game, why pick now to dispute it?

[Muerrto]

I don't see why you are so worried about Alabaska posting a referenceable game.

I'm not. I only said 'you rely on meta too much'. You do. You got 'worried' out of that? I've been saying meta sucks all game, why pick now to dispute it?

Because you only now started attacking people for meta when it applies to you.

I didn't attack anyone for meta. I said meta is retarded and I've said it all game. I even uoted it for you. Where are you getting this?

[Muerrto]

@Wall-E:
My current thought process shows two possibilities:
A: You and Al4xz are scumbuddies. He defended you and then attacked you in a distancing attempt.
B: He is scum and you are town and his actions were an attempt to make us come to conclusion A, get him lynched, and turn suspicion on you the next day.

Now, Al4xz is scum in either scenario, which is why I am voting for him. If/when he flips scum, I will be willing to go after you tomorrow. However, if he flips town, I will have no reason to suspect you.

Um...why no C? Why are a few people on the Al4xz wagon(including Wall-E) saying this will basically CLEAR Wall-E if Al4xz flips town? I really, REALLY don't like that. Wall-E's slip had NOTHING to do with Al4xz. The case on Al4xz is on something COMPLETELY different and NEITHER of them should clear the other.

Wall-E's slip happened before Al4xz had even spoken.

FoS: Blak

Really dislike the Al4xz wagon. Wouldn't mind a Blak wagon, still support a Wall-E wagon the most. Blak's been half lurking all game not really putting in alot of content and this latest post made my scumdar break...

[Muerrto]

I don't think Al4xz as town would clear Wall-E. I'm voting Al4 because his behavior is scummy.

I'm perfectly willing to sort Wall-E tomorrow on his own merit.

Hm...I've seen town screw up and answer for someone else before. I really dislike the Al4xz wagon. Keep in mind I said that about Slicey and K7 and was right both times. These wagons are scum driven.

@Kuribo: What do you think about the slip? Was it scummy? A mistake? Can you tell me a way a townie would've made it? If not, why are you voting Al4xz? I'm starting to wonder why you pushed the Al4xz thing so heavily right after Wall-E came under fire...

[Muerrto]

You haven't explained why you're voting Al4xz INSTEAD of Wall-E. You just said it's scummy. So if you can't think of a situation where town would do what Wall-E did, that makes him scum, right?

But Al4xz's reaction

seemed

scummy to you, by your own words. That denotes a possibility of you being wrong, yes?

I'm confused.

And stop using caps =p

[Muerrto]

Can you tell me a way a townie would've made it?

Can YOU tell me how SCUM would have?

Sure. A mistake. I already said that. You knew K7 was town before he was lynched but you didn't know he was a doctor. You had no problem lynching him since he was town and when he turned up doctor you obviously had no problem with that either. Since you had no problem and you THOUGHT he'd claimed doctor before the lynch you posted your infamous 'boo hoo the doc is dead' post.

While as TOWN your story is you didn't get back in time to do anything about the K7 lynch and your vote was on there. You thought he'd claimed doctor however and yet WEREN'T upset on day 2 about a claimed doctor being lynched while you were busy with other things. If I'd gone V/LA or lurking or whatever you wanna call it and came back and found my vote helped lynch a CLAIMED doctor who wasn't near lynch when I last left him AND hadn't claimed doctor yet I'd be going 'What the hell were you people thinking lynching a claimed doctor???'

BUT you said you SAW his claim as doctor. SO, did you see his claim BEFORE you went away and yet leave your vote on him anyway? Or did you come back, see the claim, and keep your vote on him? Either way, you knew he was a doctor and left your vote on him without ever saying anything about disbelieving his claim AND you had no problem with enough of the rest of the town disbelieving to be able to lynch a CLAIMED doctor.

Honestly, I'm floored as to how you're still alive and when you flip scum I hope Ala and Al4xz follow you to the noose.

Die scum die.

[Muerrto]

unvote, vote Muerto

in my experience with him as scum he tries to push things too hard.

I believe Wall-E excuse is good enough to cause me to look elsewhere for now.

[Muerrto]

Ah, but why in the LIVING SCREAMING HELL would scum say that?

A mistake. I already said that.

I believe I'd mixed up my own role in another game and his claim.

Wait. You mixed up YOUR role from another game with HIS role from this game? I mean, I've mixed up MY role from one game with MY role from another game but how did you mix up YOUR role from another game with HIS role from this game?

Also, I thought you said it was because of Xtomx's claim? Didn't you say you agreed with Al4xz that you mixed Xtomx's claim with K7's? Where did your own role from another game come in?


See, this is why I like the interrogation technique. It's kind of like a courtroom where you gave 2 different stories and got caught doing it. All we need now is the jury's verdict.

[Muerrto]

Hmm. I think Wall-E remembered that which I listed above [Xtomx claiming to be a powerrole], and then combining it with what he[Wall-E] knows now (that K7 was a doc [he confuses Xtomx with K7]), and figured he[K7] claimed doc.

Exactly right.

Just for the record. Your witness.

[Muerrto]

I dropped the issue? Um..I'm voting you, pushing for your lynch, want you dead, etc.

Where did I 'drop the issue'?

[Muerrto]

Muerrto, I have one thing to ask you: what does scum have to gain by saying someone who is dead claimed doc when they didn't?

It was a mistake, said that 15 times I think now.

Now I have questions for you:

1. Where's your reference of me reaching as well as a reference of me getting OMGUS-y when pressed?

2. What was Wall-E's excuse that satisfied you especally since Wall-E's excuse now has changed? Which excuse satisfies you?

[Muerrto]

Your "it was a mistake" is not nearly specific enough. I'm pretty sure he wants to know how it was a SCUM slip, not just a REGULAR MISTAKE.

Think of a way you would post AS TOWN 'boo hoo the doc is dead get over it' when you THOUGHT the doctor had claimed before the lynch and you THOUGHT we lynched him anyway just for information.

There's your answer.

[Muerrto]

Sorry. It was the second game I ever played and I didn't keep a link. I remember how he played, and he was scum, but I can't back up my meta. If you kept a link, Muerrto, that would be great.

It was the second game you ever played...almost a year ago...yet you remember I was scum and I was OMGUS-y when pressed? And you can't look in your profile, check your posts, and go back and pull the game? Did I get that right?

[Muerrto]

Man, just unvote alex already, lynching claimed cop on day 3 is stupid no matter what.

QFT

Why are people posting and not unvoting?

Still like killing Wall-E, still got my vote there. Don't like BA either. Dislike Kuribo for the shift from Wall-E to Al4xz I mentioned earlier.

Xtomx, if you're gonna be confirmed townie(eventually assuming Al4xz ever gets confirmed) you HAVE to pay more attention. Wall-E, 'doctor claim', information lynch, 2 different excuses. Any of that ringing a bell?

[Muerrto]

Let's all kill Alabaska J.

Or the obv lying scum al4xz.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that's willing to call BS on the whole "oooh, I didn't get a result because he died." It sounds like scum trying to be cute and not confirm any living players or implicate a scum buddy.

And you and Armlx are willing to lynch a claimed uncountered cop to find out? And if he is cop? What then?

[Muerrto]

Unvote, Vote: Cream

Lynch -1. Likin' Armlx, not convinced there's not 2 cops yet tho so not ready to vote for Al4xz. Still not liking Wall or Blak who incidentally were the last 2 votes to jump on Cream.

[Muerrto]

You both jumped on almost at the same time right after each other...

Remember to read things from a third person view.

[Muerrto]

Remember to read things from a third person view.

Ok. You remember to wipe your butt after pooping, too.

Dude, are you 12?

[Muerrto]

Bah. Go us.

[Muerrto]

Wow, that was a long game.

I knew Surye was scum =p I thought BA was but SK is close enough. Never read RBT as SK at all.

Good game guys.

[Muerrto]

Town deserved to lose after the whole lynching me/Wall PR's thing.

You didn't really just say that with a straight face, did you?