Open 86 - Lovers Multiball (Game Over)

[Crazy]

OMG, WWB's a genius!

Unvote
Vote Battle Mage

If he's mafia, we're so lynching neko/sekinj next.

We gotta at least try this time theory.

[Crazy]

(I pick Battle Mage out of those 3 pairs since he is the most likely to be scum, anyway)

[Crazy]

@crazy: I agree that we should test the theory, although admit that you picked battle mage because he already has a pile of votes on him.

BM/CWR has been my second pick after Charter/Ceph for a while now.

[Crazy]

I can honestly say I hope we didn't just catch all the scum. 'Cause that would be a really lame way for the game to end. Shrug.

I think the game is far from over, Sekinj/Neko are my top town read and I am not just going to vote for them on times alone.

If BM turns up scum, especially mafia scum, I am. I've had trouble with reading Sekinj/Neko this game, since Neko has been my top town read and Sekinj has been my top scum read... so they've ended up near the middle this whole time. Huh.

[Crazy]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but before the daytalk was posted, Sek was only on your radar once early on in the game (sometime before your self-vote). So, if she's been your top scum pick this whole time, why let others get in the way? I know you've pegged me as most town, but it seems that if you really thought she was scum, it wouldn't have mattered who her partner was. This is part of a discussion that happened early on in the game, I suppose.

This is correct. But when I learned she was paired with you, that completely threw me off. If this wasn't a lovers' game, I'd definitely have been pushing for her lynch this whole time.

Sekinj had about the worst reasons in the game for wagoning me early Day 1. After I already had posted what I thought the tell was, she was still bugging on that I was making it up, and so on.

[Crazy]

Panda, Clockwork's refusal to post daytalk = 100% scum. That's enough for me.

[Crazy]

Vote: sekinj

I'm with ThAd on this one.

[Crazy]

Unvote, Vote: armlx

Because he's scummier in the first place.

Yeah, but the times point more to sekinj than they do to armlx, since sekinj had the same exact time as BM.

I'm all for lynching Panda/armlx tomorrow though. Preferably Panda, although that makes no difference.

[Crazy]

Charter, you were avoiding the iceman wagon. You have to give him that, at least.

[Crazy]

Are you guys crazy? They had the SAME DAYTALK stamp, and they were the ONLY ONES with that stamp. Scum teams have the same daytalk thread. It's not like half of a thread can be made at one time and half at another time! IT'S ONE THREAD!!!!

So why aren't we lynching sekinj yet?

[Crazy]

Yeah, but if sekinj isn't the other mafia, who is? Nobody else had the same time.

[Crazy]

Yeah, but if sekinj isn't the other mafia, who is? Nobody else had the same time.

*gasp* we may have to use

reasoning

to figure that out!! wow, that's a shocker.

Yeah, like your reasoning, right? Lynch Crazy; he made up a scum-tell!

[Crazy]

Yeah, but if sekinj isn't the other mafia, who is? Nobody else had the same time.

I'm not sure, that's what I want to figure out. If the times have no indication of alignment as Destructor said and BM lied about his time, it is possible that no one else had a 9:42pm timestamp. I am not saying it's a bad vote or not a good case to pursue at all, I just want to be completely convinced before lynching anyone.

If BM was going to lie, he'd put 10:07, you know.

[Crazy]

Yeah, sekinj, but you were saying that I was making it up after I POSTED what it was. How could I be making something up when I POSTED it?

[Crazy]

The idea is that the mod decided to add the town daytalks AFTER the scum daytalks, and thus created them later.

However, this falls apart completely when you realize the timestamp for the post where the mod announces he will give everyone daytalk threads is half an hour before the first time recorded for the mod's opening of a daytalk thread.

That's not true either. The mod could have done one thread, gone and taken a shower, and came back and did some others.

[Crazy]

That's not true either. The mod could have done one thread, gone and taken a shower, and came back and did some others.

And that doesn't prove anything about the alignments of the people he did before taking a break.

Yes, you're correct. Which is why what I'm saying applies to sekinj, but not to armlx.

-BM had the time 9:42. He was scum.

-All scum have the same daytalking thread. So, in turn, they have the same TIME on their daytalking thread.

-Sekinj was the only other player with the same time as BM.

-Thus, sekinj is the other mafia.

[Crazy]

Neko, answer this please: Which of these do you think was the most likely thing to happen:

1. BM lied about his time on his daytalk thread, and you & sekinj were the only ones to have 9:42.
2. The other mafia pair lied about their time on the daytalk thread.

[Crazy]

Forget about Excel. The timestamp issue is enough.

When I typed out my daytalk, I didn't even copy & paste at all. If sekinj was scum, he could just claim that, you know. So this whole argument is pointless.

[Crazy]

When I typed out my daytalk, I didn't even copy & paste at all. If sekinj was scum, he could just claim that, you know. So this whole argument is pointless.

so doesn't that show that I'm NOT scum?

How many more townies can we kill for "free" in order to test a theory the MOD dis-proved?

No, it shows that WWB's case against you is a null-tell.

Nice try, though.

[Crazy]

When I typed out my daytalk, I didn't even copy & paste at all. If sekinj was scum, he could just claim that, you know. So this whole argument is pointless.

so doesn't that show that I'm NOT scum?

How many more townies can we kill for "free" in order to test a theory the MOD dis-proved?

No, it shows that WWB's case against you is a null-tell.

Nice try, though.

then what is your case?

-BM had the time 9:42.
-He was mafia.
-Mafia have the same times.
-You were the only other person with the time 9:42.

Not 100% proven, but it's certainly better than anything else.

[Crazy]

Evidence > Scumhunting. Lynch sekinj first.

[Crazy]

Did armlx's daytalk match times with a lynched scum? No.

Did sekinj's? Yes.

[Crazy]

SCUM ARMLX/SLEEPYPANDA

Just make sure you lynch them after me, I'm not going to make a huge case because no one will listen to me anyway, pretty much the whole reason I haven't said anything of merit for a while now, but rest assured that they are, in fact, scum.

Neither of you is a good lynch, btw. Armlx, maybe later. You, you're looking much better now.

[Crazy]

Actually, I kind of want to be lynched. I can't see any way that armlx/SP can weasel their way out trouble when the obvious is confirmed. I feel that a one for one trade with scum here would be quite good, and once armlx/SP are lynched, I honestly don't have much of a clue who the last scum are, and I'm really not looking forward to a 95 page reread to figure it out.

Umm, how exactly will proving that you're innocent prove them guilty. Townies are uninformed as far as I know. o_o

Sekinj is scum. It's proven. Lynch him. Now.

[Crazy]

Crazy - what about the mod specifically saying timestamps have nothing to do with alignment? Also, if you believe it to be true, why sej/neko rather than armlx/Panda? Both are proven scum if we were to believe it, since everyone but them have the 'townie' first post timestamp.

-BM's timestamp was 9:42.
-sekinj's timestamp was 9:42.
-armlx's timestamp was 9:45.

Get it? Who could possibly be BM's partner except for sekinj?

[Crazy]

And according to this theory, who else could be Iceman's partner other than armlx?

But Iceman didn't post his time, right? So armlx could have his 9:45 time all to himself. There's nothing disproving that.

Sekinj is different, because he was the only one with the

same time

as BM.

[Crazy]

Why would all townies possibly have the same timestamp except for one pair?

And I pretty much agree with Knight there.

I dunno. Use that argument for lynching armlx if you like.

But you must see that sekinj is confirmed scum. NOBODY ELSE HELD BM'S TIMESTAMP, and we all know that scum have the same timestamps.

[Crazy]

Crazy - no. Sek is one of my strongest town reads, and I refuse to lynch on something that may not be anything more than a quirk of the day-talk setups.

Dude, if we were lynching based on scumminess alone, then we'd be dead a long time ago. Please get with the program, and look for people who are scum, not people who look like scum.

[Crazy]

Silly me, I thought we were lynching people based on scuminess...

Well, if you want it, I do find sekinj scummy. Although that's not why I want her lynched.

Anybody can see why she is most likely scum, and why it applies more to neko/sekinj than armlx/Panda. Why can't you?

[Crazy]

Your own lover doesn't, alone with Walt who came up with the timestamps thing and generally most of the people in this game. Stop with this 'anybody' BS.

Why do you find her scummy? Also, doesn't Destructer going out of his way to say that timestamps don't matter count anything?

You fail.

Explain how sekinj could possibly have the same timestamp as BM. If you can come with a

probable

reason, then I will withdraw my case?

Can't? Hmph.

[Crazy]

As long as we lynch one of sekin/neko or armlx/panda I'm fine. It would be stupid in my opinion to not test the timestamp theory, especially when people also agree that these couples have been scummy as well.

LYNCHING ARMLX IS NOT TESTING THE TIMESTAMP THEORY!!!!!!!!

[Crazy]

Your own lover doesn't, alone with Walt who came up with the timestamps thing and generally most of the people in this game. Stop with this 'anybody' BS.

Why do you find her scummy? Also, doesn't Destructer going out of his way to say that timestamps don't matter count anything?

You fail.

Explain how sekinj could possibly have the same timestamp as BM. If you can come with a

probable

reason, then I will withdraw my case?

Can't? Hmph.

Alright, here's one that makes perfect sense. SP and sekinj are the only ones that replaced people who signed up to play right off the bat (along with Adel, but we don't know what timestamp she got). The mod simply took a little longer to check who signed up to replace and title their forum appropriately. BM lied. I'd much rather believe it was him than the mod.

No, this fails. For one, neko and sekinj have an

earlier

timestamp than most players, not later.

And if BM was going to be bothered to lie, don't you think he'd at least lie and say 10:07?

[Crazy]

No, this fails. For one, neko and sekinj have an earlier timestamp than most players, not later.

And if BM was going to be bothered to lie, don't you think he'd at least lie and say 10:07?

Ok, so say he checked who they were and posted their DT earlier, then took and a shower and posted in everyone else's. It's not like scum opening post has to be phrased any differently than town's, so he could probably just copy-paste the same message for scum as well as town if he wanted to. BM could've chosen a random player to copy from, or figure out the tell and use it to get an innocent lynched in the future. Again, who's more likely to lie - a player or the *mod*?

Scum teams have the same timestamp. Whatever the mod says, nothing can change that.

The mod saying that proved that we shouldn't lynch armlx based on the timestamp. Sekinj is a completely different case. Can't you see that there's a difference here?

So which is it?

I'd say around 90-95% confirmed scum.

[Crazy]

FOS: Neko

Yes, more of this is good.

[Crazy]

FOS: Neko

Yes, more of this is good.

If you really thought that, then why are you still voting armlx?

[Crazy]

Because I'm positive he is scum.

I'm not... but if I can't gather support for the sekinj wagon by deadline, I'll throw my support to the armlx wagon. Individually, I'd say charter was scummier, but if you throw in meta, armlx is.

[Crazy]

What do you think of SP crazy?

No comment. Haven't read enough into this game.

That's a really excellent point crazy; I haven't done a meta on either of them and probably should. I'd really like to hear more of your thoughts on that aspect.

Really, that's not needed. Most people have very unstable metas, so unless if it's something like "Player X always appeals to emotion, so that's a null-tell" then meta really isn't that great.

Really, I don't support either wagon since sekinj is obvscum, but nothing of charter's playstyle here really differs from what I've seen from him before.

[Crazy]

(And armlx's tunnel vision here is what bothers me most about him)

[Crazy]

Do I even need to point out how anti-town this is? Its so great that this guy is going after my lynch and not even reading the game. That's how I like to play...

Uhh, if I was voting you based on scumminess, then yeah, that would be bad... but based on the timestamp thing, I'd be voting for you regardless of how pro-town you were.

Please, all you can muster is some attempt to show that I'm playing lazily? And that even applies here

why

?

No, it doesn't. Lynching myself + Panda tests the theory the mod is lying to us. Lynching Sekinj + neko tests the timestamp link to BM/CWR, which was NOT stated as necessarily false by the mod.

This is correct. However, he still votes charter for reasons of self-preservation.


And I'm tiring of this garbage about ethics. We lynched iceman because he screwed up with daytalk... we lynched BM because CWR screwed up with daytalk. This game has

always

been more about daytalk than it has been about scum-hunting. I know that's not ideal, but save that for post-game talk.

[Crazy]

Do I even need to point out how anti-town this is? Its so great that this guy is going after my lynch and not even reading the game. That's how I like to play...

Uhh, if I was voting you based on scumminess, then yeah, that would be bad... but based on the timestamp thing, I'd be voting for you regardless of how pro-town you were.

Please, all you can muster is some attempt to show that I'm playing lazily? And that even applies here

why

?

Yeah, that's all I can "muster" because you absolutely refuse to look at any evidence, which you just admitted the sentence before. It applies becuase you are SUPPOSED to be voting on scumminess and NOT TIMESTAMPS. and that comes straight from the mod, so you are trying to out-guess the mod. I'm sure it will end badly for you and especially for the town if you persist.

It would be outguessing the mod to lynch armlx because of that. I've stated why you are a much different case.

[Crazy]

I fail to see the difference. Either having a different timestamp means you're scum, or it doesn't.

You can't see the difference between having a random timestamp that's different from everyone else's and being

the only person to share an exact timestamp with a confirmed scum?

[Crazy]

If townies and scum have distinctive timestamps, both have to be scum. If there's no indication, like the mod said, it doesn't matter for both. No, I don't see a difference.

This attitude makes me want to lynch sekinj more on the off chance Crazy is right.

Can someone explain this? I don't get it.

Yesterday, when we had all posted our daytalk, some people had different "timestamps," that is, time that the quicktopic was created.

-BM/CWR and neko/sekinj had 9:42.
-armlx/Panda had 9:45.
-Everyone else had 10:07.

BM was lynched. He was mafia.

My case: Sekinj is likely mafia. If BM had put enough into the game to lie about his timestamp, he'd at least lie and say 10:07.

People are saying that lynching armlx is essentially the same, but, uhh, no, it isn't. There are far more explanations for why armlx has a different timestamp than everybody else versus sekinj having the exact same timestamp as a known scum.

[Crazy]

Screw it.

Unvote, Vote: SleepyPanda

Because I don't want to wait another week until someone's deadline-lynched.

[Crazy]

Armlx was one of the first, if not the first, to say that Crazy was confirmed town. Last time I checked, scum want people dead, not call people confirmed townies

It's called buddying up, btw. And it's very common.

[Crazy]

If this timestamp bullshit is wrong, we're lynching charter tomorrow.
I still don't understand why the hell we're not lynching charter today.

What the heck? How many times do I have to say that lynching armlx does not test the timestamp theory?

[Crazy]

Crazy, put your lover in his place. Don't take no lip.

Ah, who cares... the divorce is almost finalized. Then I'm back with farside.

[Crazy]

Hey, now we're in mini-size!

Vote: sekinj

Good, I'm no longer suspicious of charter at all. If he was anything, he was a werewolf.

If miraculously sekinj turns up town, my list would be the following:

DGB/Darox
ThAd/Xtoxm
RR/WWB
charter/Cephrir

[Crazy]

I find no honour in winning this way.

Yeah, it does sorta suck. But it sure beats losing.

[Crazy]

I just hope destructor learns his lesson next time he wants to do day-talk.

*cough* This is an open game, so this setup (daytalking included) came from the Open Setup Nominations Thread, and

not

from destructor. Adel was the one who proposed this game, including daytalk.

Also, I can't believe that NOW people are lynching sekinj obvscum... I will stand by that lynching armlx proved nothing about the "timestamp theory."

[Crazy]

No, if they are indeed mafia I blame the mod for allowing this to happen.

I'd kill the daytalk thing entirely. Realize that every scum was caught using the daytalk. Iceman because of that thing he said "unless you got some special message after your role PM" and BM/CWR because of their stalling to post daytalk. Armlx I assume most of you lynched because of the timestamp, but I never would have because I don't see how it proved him scum, and now we're lynching sekinj.

[Crazy]

I don't think any daytalk paraphrasing should have been allowed. I mean, for scum that had been there for the whole time it isn't excruciatingly difficult, but when CWR replaced in and was immediately asked to post daytalk... well, that was just unfair.

But yeah, I think the setup was a little too biased towards town from the start. Even if it wasn't for the timestamp problems, my money would still be on the town. Armlx/Panda would most likely have been lynched anyway, and then the town would still have

four

lynches to get sekinj/neko as the last scum.

This is still one of my favorite mafia games that I have ever been in. I mean, having 11 people vote for me Day 1, and then in some strange turn, getting my primary attacker lynched instead... and then going on to become nearly confirmed town... just wow.