Open 86 - Lovers Multiball (Game Over)

[Cephrir]

Vote: neko

I don't think there's any need to massclaim. At this point I don't see how it could help anything. And I don't

want

to play a 12-player game.

[Cephrir]

I agree with iceman. Also, lover-claiming turns this game into 2-headed. Scum would never lie about their lover, it would be tantamount to suicide.

Crazy, there will still be the same number of players, only each entity will have to be judged based on two people. What if one half of a pair is obvscum and the other has been pretty protown? Sure, claiming their lover at L-1 might help them get out of it, but they won't get nearly so much pressure if we've already claimed. And the thing about claiming is; if we don't do it we can do it later, but if we do we can't go back and not. charter: town lovers are likely to defend one another too, regardless of whether we massclaim.

On the whole, I agree with charter in that we should look at it again later. Maybe later in D1 we can decide to do it, but we might as well wait. Playing for a bit without claims might give us a whole different kind of info later.

Unvote: neko

because I'm trying to buddy up to him <.<

[Cephrir]

Works for me.

[Cephrir]

I'm inclined to think OpposedForce was just not paying attention. Anyway, it's not an unreasonable request if you can't figure out what the heck this scumtell is (not that I do know, I have an idea but what I think it could be doesn't seem as gamebreaking as Adel seems to think it is, so I'm probably wrong). I don't know why a lack of reading comprehension has generated a wagon on OF.

Also, I agree with RR, massclaim discussion can stop now, clearly some people missed it and want to have input anyway.

[Cephrir]

Iceman, the following quotes show that you have no idea what we're talking about.

Yes to what adel implied. I would have preferred to keep it less obvious by sort of dancing around it a bit more, but it should work regardless.

Right - it's possible that from other similar games, she knows the tell, meaning she could be scum this game too.

You are pretending to see this scum-tell that Adel mentioned. I don't believe town would do that.

Unvote, Vote IcemanE

I don't think your first quote neccessarily implies that iceman knows the scumtell. It is fishy nonetheless.

[Cephrir]

You are pretending to see this scum-tell that Adel mentioned. I don't believe town would do that.

Seems like someone flip flopped on his ideas a bit.

unvote: vote icemanE

I speculate that farside and crazy are scumpartners and lovers attempting to beat the tell.

unvote - vote: Crazy

Way to completely ignore the fact that there are votes on you. I'd consider a vote here but this wagon is growing a little too fast for me.

Speaking of which,

Vote: pwnz

[Cephrir]

Well, it's not growing that fast, but that hop bothers me more.

[Cephrir]

Yeah, Pwnz's vote is a little troublesome, but that could just be that he knows what we're talking about and doesn't want to spill any information.

Yea, as if. I just want to see someone lynched.

*hugs vote*

Hmm, good point. Either way Iceman is probably scum, though, for voting me while saying he *might* see this scum-tell.

No, there are a few good reasons to vote you right now.

This scumtell discussion is just silly. Does knowing the scumtell make you less scummy? I don't know what it is, does that mean I'm scum? We have two people arguing that they know what the scumtell is and that the other is pretending to know, but they can't say it or it ruins it, so they can't prove if they know it or not. You're not getting anywhere.

This.

PANDA, IT IS SOMETHING THAT ONLY TOWNIES WOULD KNOW!!! I can't say anything more without revealing what it is. Not all townies might catch it, but THERE IS NO CHANCE THAT SCUM WOULD KNOW WHAT IT IS.

I can't think of any information townies would have that scum wouldn't in this setup, and I can't think of a single thing that a scum would be incapable of thinking of just because they're scum. Basically, I agree with Adel.

Unvote, Vote Crazy

(And still

FoS pwnz

)

[Cephrir]

Triple simulpost. Crazy's charter vote makes me even happier with mine on him. "Mindless" equals lies and slander.

[Cephrir]

Despite the acceleration, this is a good wagon. For the second-most-obvious reason.

[Cephrir]

No, but you pushed for the "simplifies the game down to 12" part of it. That is what I was trying to explain is faulty. I'm not sure if you realized this or not (I didn't at first, I was just opposed to massclaim for other reasons) and it seems like others didn't as well because no one brought it up. However, your reason for massclaiming is faulty, and I think it is scum faulty.

It actually doesn't seem like terrible reasoning. I don't agree that it simplifies the game; but thinking that isn't much of a scumtell.

2. When I first accused Iceman, that was because he was mentioning that he saw a scum-tell but his posts made it obvious that he wasn't talking about daytalk.

This doesn't make any sense. Neither does your recent hopping back onto Iceman. At first, if you thought he had the wrong tell, there's no reason that makes him scummy. Scum have no more incentive to make something like that up, or to pretend they know the tell, than townies do. Both will very likely be questioned about it at some point and it provides no discernible advantage. But now we know you were wrong; you still were voting for Iceman until your recent selfvote, even though he could very well be right.

4. Now people are still saying that I am completely full of crap, and that I made up this scum-tell, when obviously I didn't.

True story. There's no way Crazy is lying at this point, about the scumtell at least. He very clearly actually believed what he was saying, but that doesn't have much bearing on his alignment. Pretending to understand the tell would be really dumb, as it nets scum or town only disadvantages (unless it was glaringly obvious and everyone was seeing it, which was obviously not the case).

[Cephrir]

This doesn't make any sense. Neither does your recent hopping back onto Iceman. At first, if you thought he had the wrong tell, there's no reason that makes him scummy. Scum have no more incentive to make something like that up, or to pretend they know the tell, than townies do. Both will very likely be questioned about it at some point and it provides no discernible advantage. But now we know you were wrong; you still were voting for Iceman until your recent selfvote, even though he could very well be right.

I didn't think he had the wrong tell. I thought he was faking knowing the tell. See post #138, and keep in mind that I thought the only tell at that point was the daytalking.

And.... what possible benefit could he gain from doing so?

@ icemanE, cerebus3, OpposedForce, charter, & Cephrir

why are/aren't you still voting for Crazy?

I'm still voting for Crazy because I like the discussion that's been generated by the pressure on him. And I do find his actions suspicious as well, but if not for the first part of this reply I'd be voting pwnz.

All crazy voters -

Do you believe, like OF, that Crazy knew his "daytalk tell" wasn't valid all along, and just made it up when pressured in order for to look like he made a honest mistake? If not, why are you voting him?

No. See above.

Why would a lover, who could just as easily coach in the daytalk forum, say something like THIS to her lover in the game thread? I'm not saying that I doubt they're lovers, but I AM saying this looks a lot like distancing. I just can't possibly imagine why a townie would want to distance in this type of game.

Scum don't have much reason to distance from their own lover either.

1. He has been acting incredibly scummy, setting the tell business aside.
2. I don't believe the "he either made up the tell, or he's town" argument is sound.

I pretty much agree. Except I'm not as certain of Crazy being scum as Iceman sounds.

[Cephrir]

but if not for the first part of this reply

This is confusing, I mean this part: "I'm still voting for Crazy because I like the discussion that's been generated by the pressure on him."

[Cephrir]

Cephrir & Iceman - You claim that Crazy believed his daytalk tell was valid, but is still scum. But scum have their own daytalk forum, and thus scum-Crazy would

know

townies aren't the only ones with daytalk and thus

know

his scumtell isn't valid. I'd like you to explain how this is possible.

Huh. Actually, you're right. Score one for logic.

Unvote

.

I think those saying people who get upset = scum need to be looked at because it is really a null tell. Town gets upset, scum gets upset. We are people it happens.

Depends on the player. IMO Some players are more likely to get angry as scum getting lynched because of a case they think is stupid, and others get more easily frustrated knowing that the attacks on them are wrong. But without meta, it's null.

charter's getting tunnel vision, but he's still right. Crazy/farside's attacking him is OMGUS and then some.

[Cephrir]

unvote; vote: firestarter

First, I don't see how RR has done much different than I've done, or others. Clearly, Crazy has acted scummy. Logically, however, it doesn't add up for Crazy to be scum, all things considered (see my last posts for reasons). So why, then, would it be scummy to acknowledge somebody's scumminess but not vote them because the argument for them being town is much stronger? (whew)

Additionally, you're attacking RR for defending somebody who you believe is town when, looking at the votecount, it clearly wasn't popular to do so.

And, the quoting of Adel's call for other bandwagons while saying you're not trying to make a case... I'm also wondering what the point of your vote is, as you're sending very mixed messages.

I think me and neko are on the same wavelength. I was gonna say that!

unvote, vote: firestarter

Continuing to push a wagon when the wagon is proven false is pretty weird.

I was going to say that too.

Vote Firestarter

[Cephrir]

these posts constitute part the reason why I voted for you

Additionally,

crazy, unless you received some kind of special message after your role PM, the generic townie PM is available for all to see on the first page of this thread. It's the PM is received, so unless you got something extra, you're full of crap.

Please vote and eliminate crazy-scum, it's clear now he's full of shite.

The role PMs on the first page say everyone gets a daytalk forum.

Ah, but reading over them again, it seems the scum each get a forum where they're allowed to talk to their entire team at once instead of just their lover. This changes things. I'm going to review with that in mind.

Crazy's tell may not have been as crazy as some people (like icemanE) would like for the rest of the town to believe.

these posts constitute part the reason why I voted for you

OK, so what's the rest of the reason?

Additionally, can you elaborate, as I don't see anything wrong with either of those posts.

you got a pm giving your scumteam a place to talk, but you didn't know that townies also got a pm giving them a daytalk PM! It is freaking obvious!

I didn't get that before.

Unvote, Vote Iceman

even though he's been pretty protown otherwise =/

[Cephrir]

I don't even need all that big case, 164 and 166 are enough for my vote now that I get it.

sekinj, I don't get why you aren't voting Iceman.

[Cephrir]

I don't even need all that big case, 164 and 166 are enough for my vote now that I get it.

I would urge you to actually read those posts instead of believeing what Adel says about them.

I did read them ,that's the point. If I noticed those two posts, I would have voted you even if Adel didn't post.

[Cephrir]

Did my re-read. Not really liking the "Only townies can tell" scum tell talk, because I'm a moron, I wouldn't know what the "scum tell is" that you are talking about and would have asked about it with no hidden agenda to my question. Then BAM! i would have been pounced on for being an idiot. To me, that is scummy in its self, cuz its like a set up a scum player would use to discredit a townie.
Vote: Crazy

Also (if he is still in the game because I didn't see his name on the recent vote count but I didn't see him replaced either) FoS pwnz because saying something like "Let's lynch its day one!" is just retarded especially with all the getting serious talk that was going on.

You're totally right wolf, a no-lynch would help the town a lot more. Oh, but wait.. you just voted for a lynch in the very same post that you condemn me for saying that I think we should lynch someone..

No, sorry.

I don't disagree with the Fire case, but I think Ice's slip is more condemning. Definitely willing to pursue Fire tomorrow.

[Cephrir]

Did my re-read. Not really liking the "Only townies can tell" scum tell talk, because I'm a moron, I wouldn't know what the "scum tell is" that you are talking about and would have asked about it with no hidden agenda to my question. Then BAM! i would have been pounced on for being an idiot. To me, that is scummy in its self, cuz its like a set up a scum player would use to discredit a townie.
Vote: Crazy

Also (if he is still in the game because I didn't see his name on the recent vote count but I didn't see him replaced either) FoS pwnz because saying something like "Let's lynch its day one!" is just retarded especially with all the getting serious talk that was going on.

You're totally right wolf, a no-lynch would help the town a lot more. Oh, but wait.. you just voted for a lynch in the very same post that you condemn me for saying that I think we should lynch someone..

No, sorry.

I don't disagree with the Fire case, but I think Ice's slip is more condemning. Definitely willing to pursue Fire tomorrow.

So you think that icemanE deserves to be condemned, you are going to pursue firestarter tomorrow, and you voted for Crazy? How does that make sense?

You'll notice I'm not voting for Crazy anymore.

Fire and Ice are lovers? Awesome. Die scums die.

[Cephrir]

12. Each Day will have a non-retractable 2 week deadline.

That's a really dumb rule.

Walt, way to overreact, by the way.

[Cephrir]

op, the Crazy wagon wasn't forgotten. Not only are there still a few votes on him, but also, I think most everyone that dropped him did so only to pursue you/Fire or Iceman.

[Cephrir]

Not a huge fan of voting Darla right now. As far as I can see her only crime is lurking. An Iceman lynch today is still best IMO; if we don't do it now we'll just do it later honestly. Reminds me of a mini I recently completed, except there's still a good possibility they're scum.

EA makes a pretty good point though.

Also,

FoS: Anyone voting for Crazy

[Cephrir]

It does kinda look like setting up two consecutive mislynches.

It's not as much of a scumtell in a Multiball game

Actually, I think it's just about as bad. What we have here isn't a scummy example of it in my opinion, there's no reason not to at least discuss tomorrow since we basically know the game state will be, except of course that we don't know Ice/OP's alignment yet.

[Cephrir]

after I blew Adel's case apart, I'm still up for lynch. What will it take to get you to realize how flawed it is?

^^^ Scumtell.

[Cephrir]

Reread of Ice/Fire makes dybeck slightly scummier IMO.
Indifferent on the massclaim.

[Cephrir]

In other news, I made post 673 without noticing the lynch post.

[Cephrir]

Bleh, what the heck is with the massclaim possibility again. I thought we decided not to do it yet. If Adel didn't suggest this for the reason I am thinking of, I will be suspicious of her. My argument against massclaim from D1 basically still applies here, and I'm still against it.

Crazy, your OF case is fail.

[Cephrir]

So?

And anyway, the already lynched scum provide hints as to the identity of the other wolves, so they actually might be easier to find.

[Cephrir]

706 was to Adel.

@Crazy: OF was right in your second quote of him. You kinda were assuming Adel was town. Since he didn't know what the tell was, he couldn't have known what made you think Adel was town. Okay, it doesn't make much sense, but rest assured your case is in fact fail.

[Cephrir]

Adel's scum tell does make sense, although I don't think it was necessarily worthy of so much suspense. I guess that tell might help us get more info from day 1, but it definitely won't help us anymore since scum know what it is. I suppose we may as well

massclaim

=/

[Cephrir]

So that we can use Adel's scumtell. That's my reason anyway, dunno about everyone else.

[Cephrir]

My lover is charter.

[Cephrir]

-wolf & OF
-Cephrir & charter
-ThAdmiral & DBE
-neko & sekinj
-Erratus Apathos & SSF
-Panda & armlx (pacman)
-Alabaska & kloud (dybeck)
-Harvey & cerebus
-Adel & pwnz
-RR & WWB

Any explanations? I see you're ranking pairs based on individual members (i.e., you have expressed suspicion of OF but not wolf and they're at the top).

[Cephrir]

Until DBE returns, I'm wondering about ThAdmiral and DBE as a pair, actually.
If DBE returns and confirms that, my unease will be assauged, but... I dunno. I can't see much that would link them in posting, really.

So you think ThAdmiralScum may be claiming lovers with a townie knowing they'll return from V/LA and point out that he's lying, and also another pair must be lying for no apparent reason....?

[Cephrir]

Can someone explain to me how pwnz has been scummy rather than just unhelpful?
I'm actually getting tired of asking this pwnz...

Bandwagoning and doing nothing else? To the point where he's clearly been reading the thread and not contributing, even.

[Cephrir]

@Crazy: I was thinking scum might buddy up to their entire group instead of just their lover, by accident, or something like that. I honestly forget exactly why/what I was thinking exactly, but I think it was something like that based on my daytalk.

Like I said, it didn't seem amazing. Although, it turns out the actual tell isn't that amazing anyway.

[Cephrir]

It just makes me a little wary - it almost looks as if Adel has been deliberately trying to distance from pwnz, which could be part of why she was initially against the mass-claim. Town-lovers should have no reason to distance from each other, claim or no claim, so... it's interesting.

You're right, Adel fell for her own scumtell. Oh wait.

Also, stop simulposting me you jerks.

[Cephrir]

Cephrir: ever heard of WIFOM?

Yes.....so?

[Cephrir]

Agree with kloud's post wholeheartedly. Also, I think the fact that it doesn't include a vote is a towntell or maybe a bussing tell.

Crazy: he didn't really. I was more responding to charter's speculation about the tell, giving another possibility for something it might be.

[Cephrir]

Oh, and this:

Crazy: he didn't really. I was more responding to charter's speculation about the tell, giving another possibility for something it might be.

Interesting. What did he think the scum-tell was?

He thought the scum might not have daytalk; presumably this was before we realized the game was nightless.

Cephrir dinging my case as "fail" based on nothing hits my scumdar hard. It's like the same way at the beginning of the game when he dismissed the mass-claim idea.

It wasn't based on nothing. Your case consisted of two OF posts and, like, two lines each about them. That's not a case, especially since what you said wouldn't even have been terribly incriminating had they been wholly correct points (which I didn't think they were).

Still need to do that reread =/

[Cephrir]

LA over the weekend.

You cannot make a post with the same text as your last.

[Cephrir]

Prodded. RL is eating me.

[Cephrir]

My next week will be a bit crazy. I'll be reading and posting but don't expect incredible insights.

[Cephrir]

Ew, deadline incoming before I'm likely to have a chance to do much of anything. I will definitely vote either cerebus or kloud at deadline to stop OF from being lynched.

[Cephrir]

OF needs to be lynched. So does Cephrir.

You're an idiot.

[Cephrir]

Reread Alabaska/dybeck/kloud and HP/cerebus.

Alabaska I want to say looks like he must be a bussing wolf, but then again, bussing is pretty bad in this game so I want to say he can't possibly be. Alabaska was buddying up to dybeck like nobody's business, although I don't really think that means much. dybeck is dybeck, we've all looked at him. The combination of his defense of fire/ice and Alabaska's would-be bussing of them is a bit odd. kloud's contributions have been decent, but they definitely do't make him obvtown. Currently not sure.

HP hasn't done much obviously... I think his refusal to acknowledge RR's case is actually a towntell, although the case itself makes sense. But cerebus... RR's case is spot-on and I'm not sold on cere's defense at all.

So now instead of not being sure which is scummy I want to lynch all of them, but as it stands I believe I will be voting kloud at deadline. Barring something earth-shattering.

[Cephrir]

sekinj's post does illustrate cere's flip-flopping pretty damn well. Gah.

[Cephrir]

Please point out said flip-flopping for me. I'm inclined to believe that both of you are just hopping on the bandwagon without even bothering to check facts.

FOS: Cephrir+charter, KoC+Crazy

How can I be hopping on a bandwagon if I'm not voting? I had just said I was leaning towards kloud but sekinj's post made me think again.

Sekinj's case says he unvoted Fire here. I have no idea where she came up with that. He never unvotes Fire.

During Day 1, Cerebus' vote has only been on Crazy, besides when he switched to Fire. Show me where he has flip flopped on Crazy. He pushed for Crazy's lynch for the majority of Day 1.

Cerebus has also agreed with ice for the majority of Day 1. Besides when ice revealed he was lovers with Fire, show me where he has flip flopped agreeing with ice.

To Cephrir, charter, KoC, and Crazy: if you think Cerebus is scum, which faction do you believe he belongs to?

I didn't check, I just assumed sekinj wasn't lying. If cerebus is scum I would definitely say wolf, but now that you've pointed this out I'm back to where I was. So I suppose I may as well

Vote: kloud1516

.

[Cephrir]

unvote, vote:Cephrir

for being mafia.

This is extremely helpful, and pursuing a wagon other than cerebus or kloud is extremely protown right now.

Also, it is not in any way hypocritical coming from someone who's been insisting that everyone place a relevant vote.

[Cephrir]

I'm not especially interested in the case against either of them. I think you are carter are the correct lynch for today. With ~24 hours to go I think there is enough time left to lynch you.

I think a simple read of your posts in isolation, followed by a read of your lover's posts in isolation should be enough to convice enough of the others to join the wagon on you.

So um... why?

[Cephrir]

I can't think of anythng other than that me and charter constantly disagree, which I am and have been aware of, and I don't see how that would be a tell.

[Cephrir]

The following people don't know why there is suddenly an invisible case on them: Cephrir

[Cephrir]

I was going to say that both wagons were effectively at 9 because of who's not voting, but then I realized deadline is in, like, half an hour.

Crazy, OF, pwnz, DBE: if any of you happen to see the thread very, very soon, please make some variety of relevant vote.

[Cephrir]

I was going to say that both wagons were effectively at 9 because of who's not voting, but then I realized deadline is in, like, half an hour.

And that's not true anyway because I'm stupid.

[Cephrir]

I still like Cephrir.

I don't suppose you'd care to elaborate.

[Cephrir]

Darox, way to ignore Crazy. He does have a point. His OF case is still crap though.

Also, that certainly explains why Adel wouldn't elaborate about me. *withdraws mental FoS*

[Cephrir]

Eh, not really. He hasn't done much of anything besides trying to get you lynched all game so it really wasn't like that suddenly made him suspicious of you.

[Cephrir]

2: Agrees with iceman, who says that massclaiming would cause moral dilemmas if one partner is acting real scummy and one partner is acting protown. Goes on to add that a scummy player would somehow receive less attention through the virtue of being associated with a pro town player. (Disagree with this)

You can disagree all you want, I still think I was right.

7: Quickly after post #6, clarifies that the IcemanE wagon wasn't really that fast, but that Pwnz' vote 'hop' (His first vote in the game) was somehow more scummy.

It was.

10: Made after Crazy reveals his tell. Ceph supports the wagon despite the fast growth. Contradicts position in #6. States that it is a good wagon for 'the second most obvious reason' but never explains what this reason is. (Giving the Crazy wagon an extra push without providing any real reason too.)

The reason was pressure.

11: Disagrees with Charters reasons why Crazy's massclaim push is scummy. Mischaracterizes Crazy's attacks against Iceman, then goes on to state scum are no more likely than townies to try and fake knowledge of the tell. (False) Goes on to say that there is no way that Crazy was lying about his scumtell.

Unless you want to tell me how that's mischaracterization, this point does not exist. And I still believe that scum weren't more likely to pretend to know the tell, because either way it's just dumb.

12: Still doesn't understand how faking knowledge of the tell would be a scumtell. Gives the reason for still voting Crazy as liking the conversation generated by it, but then goes on to say that he thinks Crazy has acted scummy, but not as scummy as pwnz. Still doesn't believe Crazy made up his tell, and agrees with Iceman that Crazy is likely scum.

Show me where I said Crazy was likely scum. I said I didn't think so as much as Iceman seemed to, which really doesn't imply anything about quantity except that it was less than 100%.

13: Clarifies that he would be voting for pwnz if he didn't like the conversation generated by his vote. (Dislike this. The conversation had nothing to do with pwnz, who seems to be the person you find most scummy according to these posts, so why were you on the Crazy wagon instead of attacking pwnz?)

Because pressure. I don't see how you could possibly not get that.

14: Decides that RR is right about Crazy's tell and thus that Crazy is town. Unvotes. Goes on to say that Crazy's breakdown and self vote is a null tell, but also that Charter (Who is attacking Crazy) is right. What just happened here?

His being right and Crazy being scum were not the same thing.

16: Quotes Adel's case on Iceman, then votes him despite saying 'he's been pretty protown otherwise' and doesn't provide any other reasons why he believes iceman to be scum. (I really don't like this, it seems like a half hearted bus attempt that he can take back if Iceman don't go down.)

Nah, not really. Adel's case was pretty damn condemning.

17: After several more votes have been laid down and a much more expanded case from Adel, he changes his tune and jumps down hard on Iceman. Calls for sekinj to vote for Iceman.

THere was no change.

18: Further reiterates desire to hang Iceman. Tries to make himself look less like a follower by stating Adel had no impact on his vote.

I didn't say that; I just said 144/146 were reason enough to lynch him on their own. I wouldn't have noticed if Adel didn't point them out though.

23: Doesn't want the Iceman lynch to stop, and says 'If we don't do it now we would just do it later' (Bad logic here) Also FoS's everyone voting for Crazy, which seems to contradict #22.

I didn't say I myself wanted to lynch Crazy, just that others seemed to want to still. Also, that's not bad logic.

28: Opposes massclaim some more, and sets himself up to allow him to cast suspicion on Adel if her reasons are not identical to Cephrir's reasons. Disagrees with Crazy's OF case.

I assumed she was going for reactions, as if not then she had flip-flopped on her D1 stance.

32: Explains his shift in opinion by stating that massclaim would let them use Adels tell, even though it had been stated by Adel and others that the tell was not that effective. Also doesn't explain the contradiction to his position in #2, Adel's tell does nothing to stop this.

See that #2? That means it was my second post. People can change their minds.

40: Agrees with klouds case on pwnz. (Not surprising given previous attacks on pwnz) Also tries to paint kloud as protown, but throws in some suspicion by calling it a possible bussing attempt.

Or, I actually thought it was probably a towntell at the time. And look! I was right!

45: Cephrir does not like the deadline. States he would vote either cerebus or kloud. Seems to contradict #40 where he agreed with kloud.

Both were still scummier than OF.

47: Thinks Alabaska might be bussing but decides bussing is stupid. States he was buddying up with dybeck but completely ignores the fact alabaska and dybeck are lovers. Likes klouds input. States that HP's refusal to acknowledge RR's sensible case is somehow a towntell (Wait, what? How is failing to address logical points against you and deciding to ignore them a town tell?) Concludes that he would vote kloud at deadline.

I don't think scum with a case on them would just pretend it wasn't there. It just seems so... stupid.

52: Cephrir thinks the only thing remotely scummy he has done is disagree with charter, and that this is not a tell. (This is what Adel's scum tell was all about, distancing and disagreeing with your lover, and Cephrir supported a massclaim in order to use Adel's scumtell.)

Disagreeing =/= distancing.

53: Cephrir doesn't know why people are voting for him.

And, incidentally, still doesn't. Actually, despite your long post, I honestly still can't figure out why

you're

voting me.

54: Calls for people to make a relevant vote, but manages to miss Cerebus and Harvey completely.

Well it was pretty obvious who they'd be voting.

57: Cephrir accuses Darox of ignoring Crazy, stating that he had a valid point. Then goes on to state that Crazy's OF case is still worthless. Goes on to say that he is no longer suspicious of Adel's vote hop because she has stated that it was a vote hop.

Yet another post summary that doesn't actually make me scum at all.

So basically your entire post is a summary of everything I've done, with a few parenthetical disagreements and with wording that suggests I'm scum. I don't suppose you'd care to tell me which parts of the summary you're voting me for?

I really think you could do exactly what you just did on any player with a reasonable amount of posts. And quite frankly, I think that if Adel had named someone other than me at the end of yesterday, that's who you'd have just posted a really lame case on.

tl;dr: what charter said.

I see today's choice as basically being down to:
- Cephrir
- Cerebus
- Darox
- a lurking couple who is scummy relative to other luking couples.

Dear Adel,

Why?

Love, Ceph

[Cephrir]

Darox, you're ignoring me.

[Cephrir]

Are you ever going to post anything mroe than un-related comments and appeals to emotion?

Knight, here is a select from your rational and so logical posts:

I really don't like Adel
your annoying, worthless and frankly scummy one-liners
unease
I'm not saying he's scummy in any way, other than the fact he's been unhelpful.
doesn't exactly engender confidence
it's more a mixture of gut... and a bone-deep mistrust
It just makes me a little wary
I don't like Adel and pwnz much
slightly lurking
I'm not happy

You are much more liable to emotion and flabby nebulous reasoing than myself. To try and dismiss everything I write as an appeal to emotion is incorrect and

intentionally misleading:

vote: Crazy

This, sir, is not how you make a case. Quoting random, contextless excerpts from someone's posts and then applying a general label to their behavior = no.

[Cephrir]

Last post should have contained an

FoS: Harvey

. Also, I find it ironic that you call KoC intentionally misleading while giving contextless evidence.

Response to Darox forthcoming (Uuuuugh).

[Cephrir]

I don't plan on voting Crazy.

My response to Darox just got eaten by my browser randomly closing and I don't feel like redoing it right now.

[Cephrir]

I see today's choice as basically being down to:
- Cephrir
- Cerebus
- Darox
- a lurking couple who is scummy relative to other luking couples.

Dear Adel,

Why?

Love, Ceph

I've asked this like 3 times now. Any particular reason you've yet to answer?

[Cephrir]

New list, because doing these is fun.

Cephrir & charter
DBE & ThAdmiral
Darox & starrie
BM & EA
HP & Cerebus
neko & sekinj
RR & WWB
Adel & DGB
armlx & Panda -

Baseless lists are not helpful. Please try harder.

[Cephrir]

New list, because doing these is fun.

Cephrir & charter
DBE & ThAdmiral
Darox & starrie
BM & EA
HP & Cerebus
neko & sekinj
RR & WWB
Adel & DGB
armlx & Panda

Baseless lists are not helpful. Please try harder.

They let everyone know where I stand. Granted, these can be harmful in a game with a Night phase, because they give the scum NK targets, but in a Nightless game it doesn't really make a difference.

And I just realized how OMGUS-y my list is. The people near the bottom tend to think better of me. I guess that shows I'm a crap player.

Actually, I think I'd put Cerebus even lower on the list. He kind of proved that he was town (to me, anyway, since my logic sounds like crap to everyone but me) when he *headdesked* after I gave a hint about my scum-tell.

I'm not saying posting the list is a bad idea. I want reasons. charter and I, for instance, have climbed up for no apparent reason and OF/his replacement have dropped for some reason. I wasn't paying attention to anyone else's position but I'm sure they moved too. Why?

[Cephrir]

For those who didn't notice, deadline is nearing very rapidly.

I'll be on again before deadline but have yet to see a compelling reason not to vote for Harvey Pew.

[Cephrir]

Eh, it's been mentioned quite a few times.

[Cephrir]

There is no reason to bother doing this. Nonetheless,

Vote: Harvey Pew

[Cephrir]

As for Crazy, I've stated my beliefs on him.

I think he is town but not 100% confirmed.

This.

Also, I don't really care whether we have a mass-daytalk-posting or not.

[Cephrir]

Cephrir 45
09-14-2008 09:27 PM ET (US)
cjh3u 44
09-10-2008 11:29 PM ET (US)
Cephrir 43
09-09-2008 05:07 PM ET (US)
cjh3u 42
09-08-2008 11:38 PM ET (US)
Cephrir 41
09-01-2008 08:51 PM ET (US)
cjh3u 40
09-01-2008 01:47 PM ET (US)
Cephrir 39
08-31-2008 10:57 AM ET (US)
cjh3u 38
08-31-2008 10:55 AM ET (US)
Cephrir 37
08-31-2008 10:45 AM ET (US)
cjh3u 36
08-31-2008 10:16 AM ET (US)
Cephrir 35
08-30-2008 08:29 PM ET (US)
Cephrir 34
08-30-2008 09:52 AM ET (US)
Cephrir 33
08-22-2008 05:44 PM ET (US)
destructor 32
08-21-2008 11:13 PM ET (US)
cjh3u 31
08-21-2008 04:52 PM ET (US)
Ceph 30
08-21-2008 04:44 PM ET (US)
cjh3u 29
08-21-2008 01:34 PM ET (US)
Ceph 28
08-19-2008 10:50 AM ET (US)
Cephrir 27
08-18-2008 04:32 PM ET (US)
Cephrir 26
08-18-2008 04:31 PM ET (US)
cjh3u 25
08-18-2008 03:38 PM ET (US)
cjh3u 24
08-18-2008 01:08 PM ET (US)
Charter 23
08-15-2008 09:57 AM ET (US)
Cephrir 22
08-14-2008 11:06 PM ET (US)
Charter 21
08-14-2008 11:12 AM ET (US)
Charter 20
08-14-2008 11:11 AM ET (US)
Cephrir 19
08-13-2008 03:45 PM ET (US)
Ceph 18
08-13-2008 11:48 AM ET (US)
Charter 17
08-12-2008 10:07 AM ET (US)
Ceph 16
08-12-2008 09:59 AM ET (US)
Charter 15
08-11-2008 11:11 AM ET (US)
Ceph 14
08-11-2008 10:54 AM ET (US)
Charter 13
08-11-2008 10:35 AM ET (US)
cjh3u 12
08-11-2008 12:40 AM ET (US)
cjh3u 11
08-10-2008 10:53 AM ET (US)
Cephrir 10
08-09-2008 07:21 PM ET (US)
Cephrir 9
08-08-2008 04:27 PM ET (US)
Charter 8
08-08-2008 01:35 PM ET (US)
Cephrir 7
08-08-2008 10:42 AM ET (US)
Cephrir 6
08-08-2008 10:41 AM ET (US)
Charter 5
08-04-2008 04:50 PM ET (US)
Charter 4
08-04-2008 04:11 PM ET (US)
Ceph 3
08-04-2008 08:41 AM ET (US)
cjh3u 2
08-03-2008 11:35 PM ET (US)
destructor 1
08-03-2008 10:07 PM ET (US)

Apply them to what charter said, probably in reverse order.

[Cephrir]

The words "pure, unadulterated stupidity" come to mind.

Vote: Clockwork

by the way.

[Cephrir]

Like seriously, do you think Cephscum would have made up those times without, y'know, cross referencing charter's post to see how many posts I was supposed to have? Srsly.

[Cephrir]

Cephrirs times don't match Charters paraphrased daytalk nor do they match with what is happening in the game in several instances.

Firstly, examples plz. Secondly, why does the daytalk thread (which is basically intended for random thoughts) have to be explicitly relevant to exactly what's going on at the moment?

I have more to write, which I'll get to as soon as I have a big chunk of free time, including Darox's post where he presented his analysis of Cephrirs isolated posts a few weeks ago.

If you seriously use that post as evidence I will personally crucify you. The main reason I didn't put effort into redoing my defense is because anyone with eyes can see how awful that case was.

Again charter was the first to resist posting the daytalk and has made it as diifficult as possible on the town by not putting the daytalk and times together.

"As difficult as possible" is an exaggeration.

Although I don't share Armix belief that Crazy is confirmed town, I do think there is this suspicous tunnel vision for Crazy who is one of the least likely suspects.

You can take that up with charter if you want, I've been telling him he's wrong for quite some time now, possibly even in thread but I'm not sure.

Furthermore, he and Cephrir both defended Iceman and Fire unti it became apparant they were going to be hung then bussed them.

Actually, I was the longest-standing Iceman vote.

*IcemanE (9) - Cephrir, Erratus Apathos, WaltWishbone, somestrangeflea, sekinj, Crazy, ThAdmiral, charter, Raging Rabbit

Also, this point is a case of seeing scummy motives behind something that can easily be explained as townie behavior (as IMO you've decided we're scum by this point in your post). Additionally, you'll notice how terrible bussing is in this setup. Can't see why anyone would do it day 1 even given WIFOM. It's not like we're such amazing players that we could reasonably place our entire hope of winning on never being lynched.

Also, your post fails to address my 1686. What could possibly compel me to screw up the number of posts like that unless it were true. If you use the word WIFOM in your answer to this I will find a way to smack you through the internet.

Also: Your dismissal of ClockworkRuse's outright refusal to post daytalk is noted. You've just leaped up a couple steps on the list of his potential buddies.

[Cephrir]

I could put a ton of effort into defending us from WWB, but quite frankly I don't see how it'll make any difference. If we get lynched over this BS, then we will, and if not then great.

If we are lynched, look at armlx, possibly WWB + Darox, and everyone else who ignores Clockwork to pursue me/charter; that's where you'll find BM/CWR's buddies if they're mafia. Seriously, this is so bad I don't see how a protown player could want to vote anyone else.

Unvote, Vote: BM

[Cephrir]

BM + CWR are next on the list Ceph.

And... why not first?

[Cephrir]

Getting lynched regardless, no use putting in the effort, etc. If people seem willing to listen to reason perhaps I will bother trying.

I notice that everyone voting charter is dodging neko's question.

armlx/SP and BM/CWR are scum. As for the third pair, well after you lynch those two you've got quite a lot of days in which to find them, so good luck.

[Cephrir]

Bah, fine, I can't even force myself to give up because I hate it so much. Time to create a quote-monster no one will even read.

Cephrirs times don't match Charters paraphrased daytalk nor do they match with what is happening in the game in several instances.

Firstly, examples plz. Secondly, why does the daytalk thread (which is basically intended for random thoughts) have to be explicitly relevant to exactly what's going on at the moment?

The daytalk thread of four people will be much different then the daytalk thread of two people because it will be fabricated. So the content as well as the little things, like days and times will show who has forged their daytalk and who has been honest.

For instance, Charter claims You made these two comments back to back in daytalk.

ceph- says the tell might be scum buddying up to their other scumbuddies
ceph- two tells, lets talk about something else

However in the times you presented, they do not exists.

Charter 5
08-04-2008 04:50 PM ET (US)
Charter 4
08-04-2008 04:11 PM ET (US)
Ceph 3
08-04-2008 08:41 AM ET (US)
cjh3u 2
08-03-2008 11:35 PM ET (US)
destructor 1
08-03-2008 10:07 PM ET (US)

It just comes across as BS and looks like you and he fabricated your daytalk around your real daytalk with your scumgroup.

That's because the two things charter mentioned there are posts 6 and 7. Not going back to see what he probably omitted; so here's 2-5.
2 Charter- hey.
3 Ceph- hey.
4 Charter- Against massclaim because it won't help.
5 Charter- Tell might be inability to daytalk or something about the daytalk itself; suspicious of Crazy.

I have more to write, which I'll get to as soon as I have a big chunk of free time, including Darox's post where he presented his analysis of Cephrirs isolated posts a few weeks ago.

If you seriously use that post as evidence I will personally crucify you. The main reason I didn't put effort into redoing my defense is because anyone with eyes can see how awful that case was.

Curicify me, more omgus BS, wanna hang another townie just to prevent your lynch. It was a good case that did not get the attention it deserved and I WILL bring it up again.

It was complete BS. It really wasn't even a case. At first he just summarized my posts and voted me, and didn't do an especially good job of explaining later.

Again charter was the first to resist posting the daytalk and has made it as diifficult as possible on the town by not putting the daytalk and times together.

"As difficult as possible" is an exaggeration.

No it's not, who are you trying to convince? You both have made made it difficult, everybody has seen it. It's not just me who has made this comment. Nobody else had a problem doing it except Toaster and BM, who I have questions for as well. But at the moment I concent with my vote.

You make it out like he came out totally against it. I'll quote what he actually said:

I think everyone posting their daytalk all at once isn't a good idea. I think it's only necessary for those who are serious lynch candidates to possibly post their daytalk.

Which is not as equivalent to "OMG NOT DAYTALK CUZ I R SCUMZ AND DONT WANNA MAKE SOME UP" as you seem to think it is. And then his very next post:

I don't see how posting it all at once will be helpful. It's going to make the thread gigantic in a very short time. I just think we should space it out a little is all.

Which I will admit is a bit of a switch, but it's a perfectly reasonable view. People can change their minds y'know.

Although I don't share Armix belief that Crazy is confirmed town, I do think there is this suspicous tunnel vision for Crazy who is one of the least likely suspects.

You can take that up with charter if you want, I've been telling him he's wrong for quite some time now, possibly even in thread but I'm not sure.

I intend to, however I don't think this is nearly as telling as your action in regard to daytalk.

Go for it; as he has pointed out, though, he has recently backed off. Also, you'll notice our daytalk probably matches up with when Charter was after Crazy.

Furthermore, he and Cephrir both defended Iceman and Fire unti it became apparant they were going to be hung then bussed them.

Actually, I was the longest-standing Iceman vote.

*IcemanE (9) - Cephrir, Erratus Apathos, WaltWishbone, somestrangeflea, sekinj, Crazy, ThAdmiral, charter, Raging Rabbit

You voted for Ice first while Fire's wagon was at full steam. Had you been on Fire, it could have meant his lynch.

I didn't even know they were lovers at that point IIRC, and I found Iceman's slip scummier than Fire.

Also, this point is a case of seeing scummy motives behind something that can easily be explained as townie behavior (as IMO you've decided we're scum by this point in your post). Additionally, you'll notice how terrible bussing is in this setup. Can't see why anyone would do it day 1 even given WIFOM. It's not like we're such amazing players that we could reasonably place our entire hope of winning on never being lynched.

Look at the entire vote count through the course of Icemans lynch, at least one member from each couple voted for him or Fire. There was some degree of bussing or at least distancing that happened on day one.

Well yeah, but it's the timing that matters. After they claimed lovers they had no chance, so by then everyone and their grandmother should have been bussing.

Also, your post fails to address my 1686. What could possibly compel me to screw up the number of posts like that unless it were true. If you use the word WIFOM in your answer to this I will find a way to smack you through the internet.

Well you did, why doesn't really mattter. But more than likely it's WIFOM.

Gee, that sure is a compelling argument, you totally caught me

After reading this post a bit more thouroghly I'm a bit less suspicious of WWB for some reason.

POsting this then going on so I don't just have one massive post.

[Cephrir]

Like seriously, do you think Cephscum would have made up those times without, y'know, cross referencing charter's post to see how many posts I was supposed to have? Srsly.

Also, your post fails to address my 1686. What could possibly compel me to screw up the number of posts like that unless it were true. If you use the word WIFOM in your answer to this I will find a way to smack you through the internet.

If your DT times and posts do not sync up, that is your fault. Both you and charter refuse to combine them together and instead do it separately. You act as if we shouldn't be questioning it at all. Get ready to smack me. You're the one that is using it as a defense to say that scum would be more careful and since your time and posts don't match up, it must be a town tell. I hate to break it to you, but that is pure WIFOM. So you're saying I argue something like, since both of you decided to post DT posts and times separately, then make an obvious error that surely scum would never make, would, in fact, actually be something scum

would do

to try and outsmart town players into thinking they would not be so stupid, is a scumtell. Oh, and don't say it's WIFOM either, or I'll smack you.

...Sure. You go ahead and think that, I can't really argue if that's how you want to see it.

Oh, look at what I found, armlx wasn't on icemans wagon, and was on Kloud's and HP's. Now he's on another townie's as well! Are the rest of you guys going to let him get away with lynching townies at will? Seriously?

You're saying armlx wasn't on iceman's wagon. I'm guessing you're saying he's possible werewolf here then? Make up your mind. Do you think he's mafia or werewolf? I also like how you're completely ignoring me as his partner. Please go back and look at what happened on Day 1. I was pushing for a Fire lynch before they had even revealed they were lovers. How does trying to push a lynch on his lover suppose to help prevent their lynch?

I'm mostly not answering stuff directed at charter, but I feel the need to point out that the case on charter/me mostly revolved around charter.

BM + CWR are next on the list Ceph.

And... why not first?

Zzz, why not after?
BM and CW have not even responded yet. Also, you're voting them.

Because they're obvscum? Maybe?

What will we have to lose? If you're claiming to be town yourself and that you're willing to lynch yourself when we flip town, it's obvious what we will lose. That's plain idiotic. You've even admitted to not wanting to contribute if there's a chance you'll be lynched. That's downright unhelpful. If you are indeed town, which I don't see how would be possible, how you've played so far is absolutely horrible.

Directed at charter; but this is an exaggeration. He didn't say he wasn't going to help if there was "a chance he'd be lynched", just if there wasn't a chance he wouldn't be lynched.

I have explained my reasons above; but briefly again there seemed to be a distinct connection between Charter/Cephrir and Fire/Ice on day one which turned to distancing then bussing. His tunnel vision on Crazy, who most believe is town. His refusal to answer question and diverting the conversation from the topic at hand with Armix. His pleas to emotion. Being the only player to object to posting daytalk, then posting two versions which are useless for analysis. Then stating that he would rather be lynched then post his daytalk. Clockworks refusal to post daytalk is scummy but not as scummy as Charter/Cephrirs refusal to fix theirs which should take no more then five to ten minutes if they are town. It is a much larger task for scum.

I'll fix your stupid daytalk after I make this post then.

You think Crazy is scum, and that he's not part of the werewolves faction as for the exchange between him and iceman on Day 1. You even mention this in your daytalk I believe. So that means that you think he's part of mafia.

Now, with armlx, you never explicitly said what faction you think he's in. But it's obvious once you put a little thought into it. You think he's scum as well. However, you don't think armlx and Crazy are in the same factions. You can tell because you repeatedly refer to armlx buddying up to Crazy. I really don't think you would use the term "buddying up" if you thought they were in the same scum faction. Also, you don't think Crazy is town either. You can find several times where you mention that you still think Crazy is scum, during Day 4. Put all that together and what possibility are we left with? That you believe armlx to be werewolf. But what do you say in the post below? Looks to me like a bit of contradiction.

After me poking him about it a few times, as I and he have said, he's not suspicious of Crazy anymore. I'm fairly certain anyway.

I notice that everyone voting charter is dodging neko's question.

It's been answered. Perhaps you'd like to enlighten me to why your partner continuously avoids my questions.

Not adequately it hasn't. CWR is basically claiming scum at this point.[/quote]

EBWOP,

If people seem willing to listen to reason perhaps I will bother trying.

Actually, I'm interested in what you have to say. I'm willing to listen, so talk.

Things to do/questions to answer:

1) Explain your case on armlx/SP
2) Explain your case on CW/BM
3) What are your thoughts of Adel/TS? TS has continued to post, but has yet to post their daytalk. Essentially, it's the exactly what CW/BM have done, which is not posting daytalk. Why do you not mentioning them?

This post strikes me as an attempt to look town while lynching a townie but I will answer nonetheless.
1) It's pretty simple. armlx's back and forth with charter, for the most part; I don't really care for his case. Call it OMGUS if you really want to; I also happen to know that a protown player is suspicious of him. That said, you are way way way way way further down from BM/CWR on my scumlist.
2) Um, duh? CWR is outright refusing to post daytalk without reading the thread and there are EXACTLY ZERO PROTOWN REASONS why he would insist on this after it has been explained to him why doing so would be protown.
3) TS says she's doing it, although it is taking her a suspicious amount of time; they better have quite a lot of daytalk. But what it really boils down to is that I thought Adel seemed protown.

Daytalk fix upcoming; I'll just do the whole thing over rather than filling in charter's holes since looking for them would be pretty time-consuming.

[Cephrir]

Cephrir 50 09-24-2008 03:56 PM ET (US) - I agree, armlx/SP, and CWR/BM (even moreso). I think armlx/SP are mafia.
cjh3u 49 09-23-2008 08:27 PM ET (US) - armlx/SP are scum, need to look back for their buddies.
Cephrir 48 09-23-2008 03:04 PM ET (US) - Seems to be purely based on daytalk.
cjh3u 47 09-22-2008 05:12 PM ET (US) - Don't even get case on us
Cephrir 46 09-22-2008 02:59 PM ET (US) (made since we posted our daytalk from here up) - we better not get lynched for this crap.
Cephrir 45 09-14-2008 09:27 PM ET (US) - Don't go after Darox too hard, it will look like OMGUS.
cjh3u 44 09-10-2008 11:29 PM ET (US) - See: around 1319.
Cephrir 43 09-09-2008 05:07 PM ET (US) - How so on Darox?
cjh3u 42 09-08-2008 11:38 PM ET (US) - RR and Darox look bad.
Cephrir 41 09-01-2008 08:51 PM ET (US) - Not Crazy. Need to reread.
cjh3u 40 09-01-2008 01:47 PM ET (US) - FoS: Harvey, BM, Crazy.
Cephrir 39 08-31-2008 10:57 AM ET (US) - I'll help.
cjh3u 38 08-31-2008 10:55 AM ET (US) - Dunno. Tomorrow I'll try to deal with any case on us.
Cephrir 37 08-31-2008 10:45 AM ET (US) - Why does Adel think I'm scum?
cjh3u 36 08-31-2008 10:16 AM ET (US) - I'll vote with you.
Cephrir 35 08-30-2008 08:29 PM ET (US) - Stop disagreeing =/
Cephrir 34 08-30-2008 09:52 AM ET (US) - You might be right about pwnz, not sure who to vote (near deadline)
Cephrir 33 08-22-2008 05:44 PM ET (US) - Stop disagreeing on pwnz =(
destructor 32 08-21-2008 11:13 PM ET (US) - Don't mention ongoing games.
cjh3u 31 08-21-2008 04:52 PM ET (US) - (mentions ongoing game in reference to pwnz)
Ceph 30 08-21-2008 04:44 PM ET (US) - Probably, but we can probably defend ourselves adequately.
cjh3u 29 08-21-2008 01:34 PM ET (US) - Crazy is dumb, I think he'll come after us.
Ceph 28 08-19-2008 10:50 AM ET (US) - Massclaim = D=
Cephrir 27 08-18-2008 04:32 PM ET (US) - Grammatical clarification
Cephrir 26 08-18-2008 04:31 PM ET (US) - Dunno. Maybe dybeck. Not Crazy.
cjh3u 25 08-18-2008 03:38 PM ET (US) - Unsure who to vote for
cjh3u 24 08-18-2008 01:08 PM ET (US) - Drat, wolves.
Charter 23 08-15-2008 09:57 AM ET (US) - Just a guess.
Cephrir 22 08-14-2008 11:06 PM ET (US) - Why?
Charter 21 08-14-2008 11:12 AM ET (US) - I bet they're mafia.
Charter 20 08-14-2008 11:11 AM ET (US) - Oops, was wrong (about Iceman)
Cephrir 19 08-13-2008 03:45 PM ET (US) - Game is moving fast.
Ceph 18 08-13-2008 11:48 AM ET (US) - Oh, orange = Fire.
Charter 17 08-12-2008 10:07 AM ET (US) - Thought Adel was town, but there are 2 scum groups.
Ceph 16 08-12-2008 09:59 AM ET (US) - Adel = town. orangepenguin could be Fire's lover.
Charter 15 08-11-2008 11:11 AM ET (US) - (reasons why he doesn't think Iceman is scum)
Ceph 14 08-11-2008 10:54 AM ET (US) - Iceman may be scum.
Charter 13 08-11-2008 10:35 AM ET (US) - Crazy, SSF, DBE = scum. Iceman = town.
cjh3u 12 08-11-2008 12:40 AM ET (US) - What is Adel talking about?
cjh3u 11 08-10-2008 10:53 AM ET (US) - OK but I still think Crazy is scum.
Cephrir 10 08-09-2008 07:21 PM ET (US) - Stop tunneling on Crazy.
Cephrir 9 08-08-2008 04:27 PM ET (US) - Don't think Crazy is scum.
Charter 8 08-08-2008 01:35 PM ET (US) - Crazy is scum, pwnz probably not.
Cephrir 7 08-08-2008 10:42 AM ET (US) - Two tells? Dunno.
Cephrir 6 08-08-2008 10:41 AM ET (US) - Maybe it's buddying up to more than just your lover; Crazy pressure is good; FoS pwnz.
Charter 5 08-04-2008 04:50 PM ET (US) - Tell could be inability to daytalk; suspicious of Crazy.
Charter 4 08-04-2008 04:11 PM ET (US) - Aginst massclaim, not helpful.
Ceph 3 08-04-2008 08:41 AM ET (US) -hey.
cjh3u 2 08-03-2008 11:35 PM ET (US) - hey.
destructor 1 08-03-2008 10:07 PM ET (US) - Daytalk here.

[Cephrir]

Gee, my defense is being totally ignored. There's a shocker. Curse you for telling me you might listen SP. Not surprised charter is too pissed to answer questions.

Everyone not voting for the claimed scum is completely fucking retarded.

I'm just glad our lynch has caught two scumpairs. In case I don't post again, good luck stopping them from weaseling out of it day 6+7.

[Cephrir]

sekinj: I fixed our daytalk in 1797.

[Cephrir]

I'm just pissed off and fed up with this game.

[Cephrir]

...you're an idiot.

[Cephrir]

BM/CWR are pretty much confirmed scum and should be priority lynch in my eyes. I've yet to see any good reason offered as to why a townie replacement would need to reread before paraphrasing daytalk. Also, I've yet to see anyone even disagree that they're scum!!!

Vote: BM

because it's a new day.

[Cephrir]

I could have been more detailed I suppose, I was somewhat afraid of the modkill. Whatever, I'm past caring. If we don't die today it will just be tomorrow. Only not selfvoting out of principle.

[Cephrir]

You mean you don't already want to lynch him as much as you possibly could...?

Also, I'm really not sure I'll believe that the mod forgot to send you a QT link BM.

[Cephrir]

How about both him and CWR refusing to paraphrase daytalk?

[Cephrir]

ClockworkRuse has requested replacement.

Confirm Vote BM

[Cephrir]

I imagine he also may not want reasoning because once someone gives what appears to be the perfect answer, everyone else would just agree with them.

[Cephrir]

charter/ceph just post appathetically and seem to be willing tp do just about anything to not be lynched...

You do realize that's a blatant contradiction, yeah?

That last part is actually going to convince me to go ahead and move my vote over to charter/ceph.

Translation: "charter and Ceph are trying, so we should lynch them over the megalurker scumclaimers"

I seems like only scum would be that desperate to not be lynched at any cost.

Because a townie would just give up? That doesn't make any sense.

I'm still suspicious of BM, but maybe they are just bored townies who didn't want ot put in the effort to paraphrase daytalk... I will continue to try to coax them out of hiding and encourage them to post their daytalk...

FoS: sekinj

[Cephrir]

I just can't understand the refusal to lynch BM. THis is such BS and if BM/CWR are mafia thir buddies are completely getting away with hiding in the crowd hoping they'll be able to slip away from the town tomorrow.

Like, seriously, it's just

astounding.

[Cephrir]

charter/ceph just post appathetically and seem to be willing tp do just about anything to not be lynched...

You do realize that's a blatant contradiction, yeah?

Clarification: appathetic to actual cases, instead you are just posting crap hoping to not be lynched.

Right, the fact that BM/CWR are claiming scum is totally crap.

That last part is actually going to convince me to go ahead and move my vote over to charter/ceph.

Translation: "charter and Ceph are trying, so we should lynch them over the megalurker scumclaimers"

I WOULD rather lynch BM. I am more suspicious of them atm than you. However, you ARE a close second, and you and charter's recent posts have just solidified my opinion of you. I'd rather move my vote over to my 2nd suspect than sit here and twiddle my thumbs for 6 days.

And if everyone who wanted to lynch BM thought that way tomorrow and the next day, he would never be lynched.[/quote]

I seems like only scum would be that desperate to not be lynched at any cost.

Because a townie would just give up? That doesn't make any sense.

If you had quoted it correctly you would have noticed my emphasis on AT ANY COST. Townies usually understand that they can still win if they themselves get lynched because of bad play. Town players aren't so desperate.

We're not desperate, we're trying to do what's best for the town, and that is not getting lynched. You just admitted that you think BM is more likely scum; so how is wanting to lynch him desperate?

I'm still suspicious of BM, but maybe they are just bored townies who didn't want ot put in the effort to paraphrase daytalk... I will continue to try to coax them out of hiding and encourage them to post their daytalk...

FoS: sekinj

So you are just attacking anyone who attacks you?

No, just people who attack me really badly. My FoS was mostly in response to what I quoted from you immediately before (which you seem to be contradicting now FTR). Tommorow even moreso than today, the town CANNOT AFFORD TO THINK LIKE THAT. Then CWR's replacement will post daytalk and they might get off scot-free.

In other news, charter voters have yet to explain how what he's done has been scummier than effectively claiming scum.

[Cephrir]

@ceph: i dont' see hwo I am contradiciting myself. BM is my #1, I've had my vote on him for a long time. I switched my vote to you (my #2) after nothing else developed with my #1... Yet, my #2 seems to be digging themselves into a deeper hole by admittedly doing whatever it takes to not get lynched... I DO admit the possibility that BM/CWR were jsut bored/lazy townies who didn't want to work post their daytalk. with that in mind, I will vote you today and see if or when BM's daytalk develops. I'm not letting them off scot free, not in the least. I'm going for the active threat before the inactive threat.

So why aren't you considering the possibility that Charter and I are just PO'd townies? And yes, we are trying very hard not to get lynched and I can't see why that's a bad thing to you. I would rather lynch the obvscum today rather than give up as you seem to want me to.

Of course it would make sense to fabricate it, but that involves taking the time to fabricate it, yes? Remember how CWR refused to reveal their daytalk until he reread the thread? Can you please (Darox, DGB, you as well) tell me how this is consistent with townie behavior? Can you tell me what a townie with valid townie daytalk could possibly gain by reading the thread before revealing daytalk? I've yet to see any

Exactly. I'm getting sick of quoting neko and saying "exactly."

A bunch of weird and incoherant crap

Um... what?

DGB/Darox, BM/CW if you wanted your shot at saving Charter/Cephrir it is right now and only now...

Ya know, your opinion isn't the only one that counts. Also, explain to me how you now seem to think there are TWO better lynches than BM/CWR; charter and armlx.

Vote: WaltWishbone

I've found some scum guys!

This is not an unreasonable response.

[Cephrir]

Also, I'm fine with whatever the mod cares to do about DBE, I don't see how that became a huge argument.

[Cephrir]

Yes, you can and should quote the times/days.

[Cephrir]

I can honestly say I hope we didn't just catch all the scum. 'Cause that would be a really lame way for the game to end. Shrug.

[Cephrir]

Vote: sekinj

I'm with the people who aren't voting for me on this one.

[Cephrir]

Unvote, Vote: armlx

Because he's scummier in the first place.

[Cephrir]

Unvote, Vote: armlx

Because he's scummier in the first place.

Yeah, but the times point more to sekinj than they do to armlx, since sekinj had the same exact time as BM.

I'm all for lynching Panda/armlx tomorrow though. Preferably Panda, although that makes no difference.

They really just point to armlx/SP being wolves. Shrug.

Unvote, Vote: sekinj

[Cephrir]

Guys. Are you really arguing about this? Seriously?

[Cephrir]

Unvote, Vote SleepyPanda

I wanted to do it this way in the first place.

[Cephrir]

I was willing to lynch sekinj based on the timestamp, but I do agree that sekinj/neko have been pretty protown and would definitely rather lynch armlx/SP who haven't been. The timestamp evidence is not as good on armlx/SP but it is still there, and they've been scummy otherwise.

[Cephrir]

it may very well be that charter/ceph are mafia and SP are werewolves.

Actually I think it's pretty clear that charter and I are not mafia. My bussing of BM yesterday would have, from my perspective at the time, been complete suicide.

I like how armlx + SP + sekinj = almost everyone who wants to lynch us today.

Also, SP is such frustrated scum. I kinda feel bad because his points actually make a lot of sense.

[Cephrir]

Wow. Assumptions, appeal to emotion, and opinion passed off as fact all in one statement. Impressive.

vote: Charter

That right there is funny stuff and near confirmation that you are scum. Why? Because

yesterday you were one of the heaviest supporters of not lynching charter!

So you think we're scum now that the alternative is testing the timestamp theory. Funny how that works.

Because apparently we're not playing Mafia, we're playing TimeStamp.

I don't like it either but seriously, we can't not test this just based on ethics or whatever. It's not like everyone is going to play the rest of this game pretending this never happened.

[Cephrir]

If townies and scum have distinctive timestamps, both have to be scum. If there's no indication, like the mod said, it doesn't matter for both. No, I don't see a difference.

This attitude makes me want to lynch sekinj more on the off chance Crazy is right.

[Cephrir]

If townies and scum have distinctive timestamps, both have to be scum. If there's no indication, like the mod said, it doesn't matter for both. No, I don't see a difference.

Not necessarily. Sekinj could share a time stamp with BM as scum without SP/myself being scum.

Yeah, exactly. Although I don't believe this is the case.

[Cephrir]

Do you seriously start each game assuming everyone is innocent?

Do you seriously start each game assuming everyone is guilty?

[Cephrir]

LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME

Vote: sekinj

[Cephrir]

No, if they are indeed mafia I blame the mod for allowing this to happen.

[Cephrir]

I'd agree that the setup seems to favor the town a bit. And winning with the timestamps is horrifically lame, but unfortunately there just wasn't any way we could ignore them. Without them I think both scumteams left would probably have made it to the endgame.

Also, I don't ever plan on playing a lovers-type game again. (Almost) getting lynched entirely based on charter's actions was pretty frustrating. I basically couldn't defend myself at all... it's like getting investigated guilty, there's just nothing you can do about it, pretty much.

[Cephrir]

Sorry Ceph. I still don't even realize what I did that was so scummy except that I had a different opinion than the rest of the town (and some OMGUSing). Then when BS attacks were made up against me I came undone.

But yeah, I didn't want to just massclaim everything, since it basically takes a huge part of the game away.

Well yeah, I mean I didn't see anything especially bad about your play but that was still annoying.

And besides, everything turned out OK I suppose