Open 86 - Lovers Multiball (Game Over)
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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Yes to all of this.icemanE wrote:To clarify, if one person acts extremely scummy, I'll feel much more comfortable voting for them without the added complication of having to base my suspicion on both the actions of the scummy player and the actions of another player. If they claim their lover early on, I'll have to weigh in the potential sacrifice of another player in addition to the person I want lynched. Timing makes a big difference to me.
Also, I don't agree with the mass claim because it will enable people to justify not voting for their lover with that logic alone - instead of being forced to look for reasons why their scum-partner/lover should be lynched, which we can look back upon and see as weak logic later, after they claim their partner, they can just say "I don't think we should lynch him because he's my partner." It makes it too easy for the scum, IMO.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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Your point? One person acts scummy, regardless of alignment their lover will protect them. Scum will do it, and town will do it, there's nothing you can do but lynch them anyway. For all we know, a scum pair will have one person being very protown and one very anti-town. Right now, I see myself lynching them regardless.
My vote on you isn't random anymore. You're trying to pass off bad logic as protown.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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Yeah, I thought about scum not wanting to lie, but it's possible, though extremely risky, if they claim to be lovers with another scum (that isn't their real lover).
You're assuming that no one will lurk. You will get pairs that lurk, pairs that don't lurk, and pairs that are half and half.
Suspecting others because of their lover is not a good idea in my opinion. I don't see why you need to find a pair of scummy people before you lynch one.For example, I have no idea about Player X's alignment. If I knew Player X was paired with *insert scummy person* then I'd already be suspicious of Player X, even if Player X hasn't even posted yet. That puts pressure on Player X to post, and not just get by the whole game by lurking.
Also, if we claim now, you leave it open for scum pairs to defend themselves to no end and it will be perfectly accepted by the town. "Oh I have to defend them, they're my lover." Yeah, I can do without that right now.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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Oh I know I am, but that doesn't mean that what I say isn't valid, just that I don't present it in the best manner.Crazy wrote:Some mafia players are extraordinarily hard to read. When you use your scumdar on them, you get a computer error. And some people will look scummy regardless of what their role is. (I believe you are one of those people, charter)
It's not difficult to pick out the scum on a mislynch wagon. Especially since we have eight of them in this game. I agree with your assessment of if someone has a very pro-town lover, it will be more difficult for the scum to lynch them, that said, I don't see the need to claimAnd some people are newbies, the kings and queens of "I have no idea how to read this guy." Newbies often do really really strange, scummy things, even when they're town. That's why I want to know everyone's lover. Because with 24 people in this game, there will be a bunch of people that will draw false attacks. The scum will abuse these people and attack them silly until they are lynched. If a person like that has a lover that is really pro-town, or much more predictable, it will be more difficult for the scum to lynch them.right now.
Yes, but the point is you're openly letting scum defend each other.
Bull. Doesn't that apply to townies, too? Townies should be able to defend their lover without throwing off everyone's scum-o-meter. As for scum, there will still be 2 other people on the scum team that they willcharter wrote: Also, if we claim now, you leave it open for scum pairs to defend themselves to no end and it will be perfectly accepted by the town. "Oh I have to defend them, they're my lover." Yeah, I can do without that right now.notbe able to defend without looking suspicious.
So why not just cut out all the WIFOM and lynch the scummy one without knowing who his partner is, since you'll "be happy lynching them" regardless... You're essentially agreeing with me that you don't need the knowledge of who someone's partner is to lynch them since it won't change your mind anyway.Genuine scum-tells speak louder than town-tells. If one person in a lover pair is really, genuinely scummy (not stupid), and the other is pro-town, I'd be happy lynching them.
I'm not arguing on the massclaim issue anymore. My position is not early in D1. If we get a definate majority wanting to claim, I will, but all arguing about it further will do is just let townies butt heads while the scum sit back and enjoy the show.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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No. I will try and look at them when I get a chance. Though it isn't going to change my mind.farside22 wrote:
Did you read the other polygimist games? What were your thoughts if you did? Why didn't you if you didn't?charter wrote:Crazy, there's absolutely no reason TOWNIES would lie about their lovers. I can certainly see scum doing it.
What is the point of your bullet 2?
3, I think it will be better keeping everyone seperate, yes.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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Appeal to emotion/fairness.Crazy wrote:Aww crap, I don't want to get lynched because that means that farside has to die, too, and that's not really fair to her.
Your replacement inherits the same scum roll you did.Crazy wrote:And I don't want to get replaced, because then if the town wins then I don't win with them.
That'll attract enough votes to lynch you for sure.Crazy wrote:So the only option is thus to mega-lurk and post one-liners every 2 days.
Bye.Crazy wrote:See ya.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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To set farside straight, I was first suspicious of farside, then of Crazy, both for unrelated reasons. It was just like a Christmas present when I found out both could be killed with just one lynch.
I dont get why I would need to bring up that you two could only be half of a scum team, it's known by everyone. If I was on your scum team, I'd have been bussing a long time ago, not defending. Besides, most of what we've talked about today has been completely pointless massclaim discussion and the mystery scum tells, so there haven't been many actual accusations flying around to try and bag an entire team of scum.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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This is why we can't have people claiming lovers, now I've got to defend against two people. I love how I get singled out, out of ALL the people voting you. Now that I go back and look, farside's earlier logic wasn't as bad as I thought. I should be more suspicious of you for pushing massclaim to simplify the game down to 12. It doesn't work that way if we all just massclaim.
To sum up why massclaim would be bad, it would mean that all pairs would have to do the exact same thing in order to simplify the game down to 12 people. They would have to be suspicious of the same people and vote the same people at the same time. Why you ask? Say for example, we had massclaimed and there was a competing wagon to Crazy's right now. Me and YYY are lovers, and I'm voting for Crazy and YYY is voting for competetor (or anyone else). Now Crazy gets lynched and turns out town. You're essentially saying I'm off the hook because my lover has the same role and didn't lynch you.
I'm explaining this horribly, I don't really know how to make it clear, but the game doesn't just get cut in half. All it does is introduce WIFOM everywhere, because a scumpair can have a vote on a townie and a fellow scum. If the scum gets lynched, they both must be town! If a townie gets lynched, well, one wasn't voting for the townie, so they both must be town! If I need to clarify further (probably) please let me know.
Can we get a votecount too please?-
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charter Beware of Dog
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She was trying to apply something to just scum, when it applies to everyone in this game (the defending your lover). She said that if two people defend each other, they have to be scum. There will be pairs of people defending each other all over the place in this game, but they won't all be scum.Crazy wrote:Besides, you never even showed how farside's logic was crappy in the first place.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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No, but you pushed for the "simplifies the game down to 12" part of it. That is what I was trying to explain is faulty. I'm not sure if you realized this or not (I didn't at first, I was just opposed to massclaim for other reasons) and it seems like others didn't as well because no one brought it up. However, your reason for massclaiming is faulty, and I think it is scum faulty.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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This is funny, you contradict yourself so bad it's painful. Yes, quite happy with my vote for crazy and farside.Crazy wrote:
I'll have to disagree here. The reason I flip-flopped on the mass-claim idea was because of Adel's supposed tell. If it wasn't for that, I'd still go for a mass-claim.charter wrote:Crazy seems the most suspicious to me. With his flip flopping on basically everything this game.
The reason I flip-flopped on my own tell was becauseit was proven wrong!
I dare you to show me a case where I flip-flopped without a good reason for it.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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This is ridiculous. You and farside keep attacking me from every way you can making up whatever you think people will believe. This is absolute BS to claim your lover, because then this happens. I'm now positive both of you are scum.
Crazy and farside are both twisting my words. Farside says I jump at the slightest thing. If it's true, then provide some evidence to back it up, else stop accusing me with no evidence. Crazy doesn't bother trying to prove it, he just reiterates it so that it seems like farside's lies have more credibility. Farside's already shown her inattentiveness, and Crazy isn't any better.
I don't jump at every little thing, if you think I am, show me, else stop making crap up about me.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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Ok, I realize I might be getting too focused on just two people (crazy and farside), but from my point of view, they've acted horribly scummy with their tag-teaming me with terrible cases. I'll do a reread when I get a chance and post more objective thoughts hopefully. My vote will stay on Crazy for now though, as I don't want to let him off the hook anytime soon.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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The "big whopping case" on him is BS, and I don't put any stock in your cases against people. Firestarters deflection is very scummy.Crazy wrote:
This sounds like you're finally giving in to the bandwagon and posting some miniscule reason so it doesn't look like it. I mean, you don't hate the BIG WHOPPING CASE on him, but one minor act of deflection is worth your vote?charter wrote:Trying to take votes off yourself by putting them on others that are being more helpful to the town than yourself is scum tactics.
Yes, I'm jumping on his wagon. I don't understand why you still insist on hounding me. It's getting quite old. I stated before that I would vote firestarter if your wagon lost steam to get a lynch in before deadline.
Why don't you hound the lurkers that you were so worried about at the beginning? Wasn't that your whole reason for initially supporting massclaim, until you flip flopped on that? Now you don't even care about them? Flip flopping again?-
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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Me and my lover have talked about way more that just the infamous scumtell and massclaim. You make no mention of who you think might be scum, or who you think might be lovers, nothing like that. I'm quite sure that all townies have talked about more than massclaim and the "scumtell". Yes, quite sure you are scum now.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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I like my iceman vote better.Adel wrote:why don't you join me? she did put ice at lynch -1 without warning.
No.Crazy wrote:Your [Adel's] case on him was perfect...
I like my iceman vote better. One of Darla and SSF is scum I bet. No thoughts on dybeck right now.Sleepy wrote:Like the vote but aren't switching? Why are you so eager for Darla's reread of SSF? What made you suspicious of SSF? Thoughts on dybeck?
No. Crazy is still scum.Cephrir wrote:Also, FoS: Anyone voting for Crazy-
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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Crazy, pretty sure daytalk is going to be irrelevant now. After pointing out how iceman's was obviously not pro-town, scum are going to put more effort into forging it.
Also, is there any scenario where I'm not scum in your head? And what were the reasons you were suspicious of me again?
Need to discuss with my lover before voting.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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No, I thought Adel's case on iceman was crap and I still do. I've seen iceman play town, and it's virtually the same as what he did here. Ask Cerebus. I voted for him after firestarter's terrible attempt at deflecting suspicion elsewhere. There was no need for anyone to bus iceman, he was doing a great job of getting himself lynched. When iceman posted his obviously fake talk, that sealed the deal.
@SP, I don't have a case on SSF, just my feeling he's scum. He didn't do anything useful day one. Almost all of his posts have been trivial comments on nothing. He hasn't done any scumhunting. Wagoned Crazy when it was popular, and then wagoned iceman when it was popular. Gave little reason either time. It makes me think that SSF is mafia, not a werewolf.
Speaking of which, I don't understand the need to lynch werewolves today over mafia, or vice versa. Can someone explain why it matters?-
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charter Beware of Dog
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