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[ssbm_Kyouko]

Sup nerds and NC.

VOTE: DrippingGoofball

[ssbm_Kyouko]

yes please try to double down on your sidetrack because you think you have

such a great point

peta is just all up on DBG's backside here

nevermind that i was the first one to engage dwlee and call him scum, my point is way less baking up dgb and ore that the way dwlee chose to engage and turn things into a pedantic argument about how not to play where he could make an "ideal" theoretical point about how "we shouldn't play it like mountainous" that glosses over what dgb is actually trying to say (we should emphasize dayplay and minimize decisions based on mechanical speculation, basic stuff). in the process he steers the conversation toward something non-game-advancing, that is, arguing about "well of course you should consider claims in a normal setup". and when i immediately jump him after that

he responds not like someone who has genuine conviction in what he's arguing but cornered scum who doesn't know how to react

Could you explain what you're seeing by DWLee that looks like cornered scum? Trying to understand this viewpoint but I just can't

[ssbm_Kyouko]

i'm just gonna claim it and say kyouko is the person in the pt with me

he's been non stop trolling me and saying he's totally a wolf and i should vote for him and i'm starting to believe him

VOTE: kyouko

Kek

[ssbm_Kyouko]

my thoughts so far:
getting town vibes from nero, reminds me of the few games I played with him where he was town, nothing out of the ordinary, feeling pretty confident about this one
the mech talk at beginning of thread makes reads messy for me so I ain't touching those, not even with gloves
I don't like these pushes on dwlee and peta, not because of the way it's started, it's just that these pushes on "loud guys" day 1 often don't end well in my experience
I wanna focus on the guys that give me "cruising by" vibes cuz even if one of dwlee/peta is scum it just means other scums are just cruising by, i wanna make this more out of this day 1 than "push confrontational loudmouth"
Out of everything I read I feel rathe's progression is the one that sticks out the most, cruising by posts, non confrontational tone when called scum + joining on popular bandwagon gives me the vibe of scum trying not to gather attention, another worrying fact is people calling the slot scum but not pushing it, I wanna force the issue on this one
VOTE: Rathe
Kyouko's 104 also struck me as bad when there's a bunch of shit happening and going with a rvs-like vote
That's where I'm at right now more or less
now push with me or ur scum kthxbye

It's not an RVS vote btw

[ssbm_Kyouko]

or nom3 is just scum that's pushing the next easiest wagon to split the peta voters. Peta/DW aren't being voted b/c they are loud. Its b/c Peta is generally scummy for buddying DGB and being

LAMIST

. I also feel like he kinda slipped in 156. DGB's proposal, DW calling it out and then Peta calling him scum for it is most of if not all the game so nom not really wanting to comment on that is pretty suspicious but I feel like Peta put scum in a bad position anyways. And just whitwashing the day so far as "pushing confrontational loudmouths" is so incredibly wrong. He's being a revisionist.

There is one thing I'll give nom and its that Rathe is sort of coasting and the whole "I'm sheeping this game" is somewhat concerning but I'm not quite sure if it's outside of his wheelhouse as town b/c last game a few players called me scum on d1 (though I only remember Andre) and he investigated me so...

not really getting stubborn town from Peta.

What do you see as a slip in 156? The bit about math?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

It's not an RVS vote btw

there a reason that you aren't using your words to try to get DGB lynched?

Been trying to talk to Anya but she's just trolling me

[ssbm_Kyouko]

yes please try to double down on your sidetrack because you think you have

such a great point

peta is just all up on DBG's backside here

nevermind that i was the first one to engage dwlee and call him scum, my point is way less baking up dgb and ore that the way dwlee chose to engage and turn things into a pedantic argument about how not to play where he could make an "ideal" theoretical point about how "we shouldn't play it like mountainous" that glosses over what dgb is actually trying to say (we should emphasize dayplay and minimize decisions based on mechanical speculation, basic stuff). in the process he steers the conversation toward something non-game-advancing, that is, arguing about "well of course you should consider claims in a normal setup". and when i immediately jump him after that

he responds not like someone who has genuine conviction in what he's arguing but cornered scum who doesn't know how to react

Could you explain what you're seeing by DWLee that looks like cornered scum? Trying to understand this viewpoint but I just can't

response to me slapping him with my vote on page 1 didn't look like a town reaction

Idk man looks townie to me

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Wow 4 pages again...

It's not an RVS vote btw

there a reason that you aren't using your words to try to get DGB lynched?

Been trying to talk to Anya but she's just trolling me

that's a cop-out. You are welcome to talk here.

Idk man looks townie to me

agree to disagree

why are you voting dgb

I think DGB's proposed strat only helps scum, sure maybe it got burned recently but I don't think that's any excuse to call to elim claims and have everyone lay crumbs.

Suggesting that is scummy, and it hasn't done anything to change my mind since

[ssbm_Kyouko]

271 must've been left in q+

[ssbm_Kyouko]

n i sheep until i have a better idea of whats happening

Why do you sheep DGB in particular over Peta or Nero?
Keeping in mind you're also voting with Peta.

dgb seemed like town more than anyone else on page 1

*blows raspberry*
I dont see how so many people are seeing 17 this way

kyo is here but not contributing or really attempting t o do anything.

just snoozing away, but i leave MS open on my pc all the time so it might say I'm online.

Will get to the PT allegations later, have to get ready for an appointment

[ssbm_Kyouko]

oops i just dropped my

491 revolver

that i use for cooking betting go into my workshop

gun room

so i can get a replacement before

petapan

does

still waiting on whatever happened in that pt, this is important

for the first day it was just me posting in there asking if anyone else was there bc i couldn't tell and also wasn't sure whether everyone in there is town or not

and then kyouko showed up and started jokingly claiming wolf but in a really weird way it was like he had a guilty conscious and wanted to get it off his chest but try and make it look like a joke

i'll give you a paraphrased example of what he said: "Sup I haven't played scum before but I'm gonna be pocketing you, it's nothing personal and I won't mind if you push me ftr"

and then i questioned him on it and he jokingly deflected and eventually said he was completely joking and he's definitely town but the way he's nervously declaring himself a city dweller feels really weird

Idk everything in that pt feels like a joke, like anya is crumbing all kinds of different roles but she crumbed traitor first and I think she's just crumbing others now to throw me off. I'm just going to keep an EYE on her tonight and by eye I mean GUN

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Titus, Kyoko is scum.

From what was said in the PT or from main game?

Both

You don't know what it's like in there

[ssbm_Kyouko]

420

[ssbm_Kyouko]

btw

@nom

what does DW voting rathe mean?

As I see it he's more than happy to push another wagon instead of pursuing the 1v1, either out of genuine interest for pushing rathe or because he's trying to go away from that 1v1, which scum!dw would be happy to do in that position

LMFAO!

You sat there and argued you need to see if they (DW and t3) would vote Rathe after calling Rathe scum and your take away is that he's scum b/c he joined another wagon. What would it mean if DW didn't vote Rthe?

Wait this actually looks like something I've been having a hard time following the wall posts

[ssbm_Kyouko]

it wouldn't change much honestly. Sometimes scum vote each other to distance and it's not like nom stuck to the wagon. Are you implying that nom isn't scum b/c he voted rathe for a hot minute? eh, I guess you could make that argument.

Well he didn't just vote, he also pushed others to hop onto the wagon which had the potential to form something bigger. Point taken on him not sticking with it though.

Kyouko's just a better vote here

considering the wagon

and the pt stuff happening in thread

so the wagon affects how "good" the vote is?? Sounds like this is the main reason you're voting for me...

VOTE: nomnomnom

[ssbm_Kyouko]

it wouldn't change much honestly. Sometimes scum vote each other to distance and it's not like nom stuck to the wagon. Are you implying that nom isn't scum b/c he voted rathe for a hot minute? eh, I guess you could make that argument.

Well he didn't just vote, he also pushed others to hop onto the wagon which had the potential to form something bigger. Point taken on him not sticking with it though.

Kyouko's just a better vote here

considering the wagon

and the pt stuff happening in thread

so the wagon affects how "good" the vote is?? Sounds like this is the main reason you're voting for me...

VOTE: nomnomnom

More like the last reason. Reason explained i

n my opening

is much stronger, as well as the PT stuff between you and Anya.

This is your opening right, 182? I dont see any much stronger reason here.

my thoughts so far:
getting town vibes from nero, reminds me of the few games I played with him where he was town, nothing out of the ordinary, feeling pretty confident about this one
the mech talk at beginning of thread makes reads messy for me so I ain't touching those, not even with gloves
I don't like these pushes on dwlee and peta, not because of the way it's started, it's just that these pushes on "loud guys" day 1 often don't end well in my experience
I wanna focus on the guys that give me "cruising by" vibes cuz even if one of dwlee/peta is scum it just means other scums are just cruising by, i wanna make this more out of this day 1 than "push confrontational loudmouth"
Out of everything I read I feel rathe's progression is the one that sticks out the most, cruising by posts, non confrontational tone when called scum + joining on popular bandwagon gives me the vibe of scum trying not to gather attention, another worrying fact is people calling the slot scum but not pushing it, I wanna force the issue on this one
VOTE: Rathe
Kyouko's 104 also struck me as bad when there's a bunch of shit happening and going with a rvs-like vote
That's where I'm at right now more or less
now push with me or ur scum kthxbye

It's not an RVS vote btw

Then I'd very much like an explanation for that one
VOTE: Kyouko

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Are there more people in the neighborhood?

Idk I'll ask

[ssbm_Kyouko]

At this point I think the only person that's been inactive enough here to reasonably still be missing in the neighborhood is Derek

[ssbm_Kyouko]

oops i just dropped my

491 revolver

that i use for cooking betting go into my workshop

gun room

so i can get a replacement before

petapan

does

still waiting on whatever happened in that pt, this is important

for the first day it was just me posting in there asking if anyone else was there bc i couldn't tell and also wasn't sure whether everyone in there is town or not

and then kyouko showed up and started jokingly claiming wolf but in a really weird way it was like he had a guilty conscious and wanted to get it off his chest but try and make it look like a joke

i'll give you a paraphrased example of what he said: "Sup I haven't played scum before but I'm gonna be pocketing you, it's nothing personal and I won't mind if you push me ftr"

and then i questioned him on it and he jokingly deflected and eventually said he was completely joking and he's definitely town but the way he's nervously declaring himself a city dweller feels really weird

Idk everything in that pt feels like a joke, like anya is crumbing all kinds of different roles but she crumbed traitor first and I think she's just crumbing others now to throw me off. I'm just going to keep an EYE on her tonight and by eye I mean GUN

are you claiming anya is outright lying about the contents of the PT?

We're just danking out in there

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Through 524 so far but there are a lot of unread pages

I think DGB's proposed strat only helps scum, sure maybe it got burned recently but I don't think that's any excuse to call to elim claims and have everyone lay crumbs.

Suggesting that is scummy, and it hasn't done anything to change my mind since

this i take issue with as well. just because you think the plan is bad, why is it necessarily scum motivated rather than town with a crazy idea? do you think it's typical scum play to propose a way of playing that helps scum openly on page 1 and hope people go along with it? because in my experience that's not something scum typically try to do at all

I do think that is something scum does as early as possible because people are more forgiving of early posts. If it works, great, now you've either sown confusion in some players or best case, convinced PRs to crumb their targets.

so, with regard to setup stuff, i would recommend looking at the roles in gypyx's previous two normal games:

mini 2169: random facts
mini 2180: fake peoples

gypyx is probably the most distinctive mod working in the normal queue right now, in that he really likes to play around with modifiers and combined roles and have atypical power distributions in his setups. expect claims to be wacky bullshit. here's a list of the town PRs in those games (avert your eyes here if you're DGB):

Town Combined Mailman Vanilla Cop
Role Watcher Neighbor
Town Ascetic Indecisive Doctor Neighbour
Town 1-shot Bulletproof Vengeful
Town Novice 3-shot Vigilante

Town Roaming Detective
Town Backup Roleblocker
Town Lazy Odd-night Tracker Even-night Motion Detector
Town Combined Roleblocker Friendly Neighbor
Town Disloyal Hider

in mini 2180, my scumteam was very easily able to exploit people making bad assumptions about the setup balance in order to get easy eliminations ("surely there aren't two investigative roles in the setup, right? that's too much town power"). i want to make sure that doesn't happen this game, so i'm informing people now so they don't go off making bad assumptions and getting weirded out by claims this game. you can bet your ass as scum i never out this because i'm the only one in this playerlist who's played in a game he's hosted, and keeping this sort of info hidden has significantly more benefit for scum as it allows people to make dumb assumptions about claims

That setup looks whack, I dont even know what half those roles/modifiers mean

i guess the hood is actually real? i assumed anya was doing a bit or something

anya might honestly be doing a bit

she's always doing a bit, it's just hard to know what about

What makes you think the hood is a bit?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I do think that is something scum does as early as possible because people are more forgiving of early posts. If it works, great, now you've either sown confusion in some players or best case, convinced PRs to crumb their targets.

sorry i don't find this line of thinking believable at all

What are you apologizing for?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think if Nero is right about TvT Dwlee/peta (he also posits DGB but I disagree) that Dragon of the West makes sense as scum. Just finished a full reread in that frame of mind and realized DotW's catchup only looks like a catchup but seems to just build into a manufactured vote on a popular scumread Peta.

It seems odd to me that nobody, even Peta noticed that the game that he "specifically linked" to DotW had in fact been posted long before a game had been requested in the "Mod Meta" post. DotW cites "cherry picking" as a reason to vote Peta, which is a reason Nero brings up early on to scumread Peta, iirc. I know Nero used the term and I believe newbscum!DotW stole that to manufacture a scumread on Peta.

VOTE: DotW

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I can get quotes but I'm on mobile atm. Combined iso peta/DotW for.context

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Right now I would like to lim in [DotW, nomnomnom | DGB | Rathe], won't do Anya, Dunn, Nero toDay. Sidebars indicate degrees of intent.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

is that something you'd do over DOTW or is DOWT still scummier for you guys?

@ the hood

If you mean DGB I'd still go that way

I just think she's lurky as scum.

VLA until Monday

quit the angleshooting dogshit please

What is angleshooting?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

lol do you even read the garbage you write

this is not a "woe is me" this is the Mith honest truth. It's only you and nom whining and crying that I'm twisting your words and I haven't. I just felt like you were very active at the beginning of the game and then when you started getting wagon I felt you were less active. And Titus I accused of active lurking BEFORE she went v/la but its not like you give a shit about the actual evidence.

your "actual evidence" is that everyone who doesn't shit up the thread 24/7 like a fucking goon is lurking, it's idiotic and no one in their right mind would believe it

I think the actual evidence was the post number of the post where Nero accused Titus of active lurking was less than the post number where Titus announced she was going VLA

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Ooh top?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

also your logic about nero is faulty because for a good portion of the game people were townreading him
when scums get townread they allow themselves to do things they wouldn't otherwise do, like taking grand stances about things and doing scummy things like misrepping posts which is the vast majority of his ISO
are you going to ignore the entirety of his interactions because you liked one of them?

My logic is from before, during, and after town reading.
Also, I'm not sure many players have been vocal on Nero being town rather than just Nero not being scum.
Nero hasn't changed during the game, so my question is, why now is this scum Nero rather than the start of the day?

You can explain to me why I'm wrong if you like, I am a reasonable player and I'll consider what's provided. I just don't feel you have anything you genuinely believe here.
Point out these parts that I'm ignoring and I'll give my opinion.

854
You have favored one interaction (Nero siding with DW) over all his interactions this game, and the other interactions are scummy and people have pointed them out.
You're laser focusing on something very small compared to the wider picture of his ISO.

I read this post, then I went and read 854... which ironically is laser focusing on something very small compared to the wider picture of his ISO... projecting much???

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I mean if nom were town surely he would have interacted differently with VFP there? Will check his ISO but I don't recall nom being agitated with or scumreading VFP prior to that interaction. I think that's the only explanation for town!nom

Good D1 lim regardless VOTE: nom

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Seems like what looks like the first interactions in the 700s between nom and VFP where VFP first votes nom are actually pretty peaceful. Like there is real discourse there that is inconsistent with what just happened a couple of pages ago.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: DFG

Still down for Vaxkiller/Rathe/DotW. Babysitter seems swingy anyways with the backfiring so I'd compromise on Titus despite the claim

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Really feels like one's getting away though with Vaxkiller (

nomnomnom

)

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: DFG

Still down for Vaxkiller/Rathe/DotW. Babysitter seems swingy anyways with the backfiring so I'd compromise on Titus despite the claim

Is this a DGB vote?

Oh yes it is, idk why but dfg keeps coming into my mind

VOTE: DGB

For clarity

[ssbm_Kyouko]

At least Dunn was VT. Kinda surprised by how fast that came together, we weren't really at deadline yet were we? Feel like there was at least a day left

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: DGB

[ssbm_Kyouko]

There’s a really Scummy exchange between DW and DGB actually between 870 and 874. Can somebody tell me their thoughts on it?

I think it's consistent with dwlee-DGB throughout the game. Think Dwlee is mocking DGB there asking if what it thinks the alignments/roles are since DGB brought up a traitor-traitor hood as modbait early on

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: anya™

VOTE: T3

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Love a good pagetop

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Are you going to say anything ssbm?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Are you going to say anything ssbm?

Oh weird my text didnt join. I said:

I love a good pagetop

[ssbm_Kyouko]

T3's 1794 is an opportunistic jump onto Anya not unlike a previous vote he placed on me. Will find it.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Most of his iso is him flip-flopping between me and Anya

[ssbm_Kyouko]

He's just coasting on it

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: kyo
Can't say why because of ongoing games but that plus the reasons said above.

this ftr was the post i thought was town indicative (if super gross), but otherwise really don't care for him on a reread

He's referring to Mini Normal 2213 which has since concluded

[ssbm_Kyouko]

He has an alt in that game Free Money Free Tea

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Top

[ssbm_Kyouko]

DotW/DGB do either of you claim mason?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

No, dragon of the west claimed a cop inno on DGB @kyo

I read that post, the one where he said "I can only confirm DGB as town"

It read to me as a confident read that could be treated as an inno if DotW ever flipped investigative, but not as a claim of any kind. I dont think he's claimed anything since either, but I'm curious if either are claiming mason as they're 2 of my top 3 scumreads

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Did Peta babysit or did he Vig Osuka?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Ah post ending in 420

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If Osuka was untargetable for some reason, rolestop, ascetic, whatever... would Anya receive no result from Peta? Not sure how that resolves

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Top

[ssbm_Kyouko]

That is e-1. I don't think it's right to lim this. She should have the chance to voyeur again so someone can confirm she voyeured them

[ssbm_Kyouko]

As announcing she either draws whatever blocking ability stopped her last Night, or her claim can be confirmed by someone else toMorrow

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If she happens to target the same person as cyrus she may even be able to confirm his role, this lim makes no sense

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Said the one she claimed was in her pt
Also if you don't buy my role elm me.see what happens.

I believe it. I think everyone believes it, but I see more value in it being confirmed. There's always room for doubt later on when it's not confirmed

Anaya didnt claim ascetic. Are you saying that we have a town roleblocker/rolestopper that hasn't come forward?

If I role blocked Anya as town I wouldn't admit it because it would have been a trash visit.
If I rolestopped Peter I would be even more embarrassed than the above and kept it secret.

So it's plausible.

Like VFP said, I think it is possible. Also possible for there to have been a scum rolestopper that targeted peta.

if there's a babysitter, does it make sense for scum rolestopper to target peta?

How are these two related at all?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

ok night 1 patapan targeted osuka

?????

didnt you just claim combined vig babysitter? did i miss something? how could you possibly know this?

T3 already addressed this by the time I'm through catchup Q+

Did Peta babysit or did he Vig Osuka?

????????????????????

the guy is COMBINED babysitter vig

learn to read people

I thought combined just meant he was both and was used to separate other modifiers from the roles they apply to. My understanding of combined (which I now know was wrong) was that it might work like "Combined Odd Night Tracker Even Night Follower" where the Odd Night modifier applies only to tracker and even night applies only to follower

If Osuka was untargetable for some reason, rolestop, ascetic, whatever... would Anya receive no result from Peta? Not sure how that resolves

are you having a stroke?

if i was untargetable, which i'm not, how the fuck could that have anything to do with anya receiving no result? what?

I was being dumb, I think she would have seen nothing rather than no result but am still not really sure if that's the case, so would still like an answer here from anyone who is sure

Hold up.

So I don't see why babysitter vig would exist because the babysit will just protect from the vig shot. Unless it's to give weird results... to something like a follower or a voyeur. UNVOTE: anya

There is no pt at all, I haven't played with Anya before but it quickly became apparent how she plays. At first I was playing along for fun, but then I realized she might actually be a mason with a different partner. I am VT and thought that I could potentially bait a NK away from the real partner if Anya ever flipped, or could bait it away from Anya if I got more active than her by playing it this way.

This is also why I was concerned if DGB/DotW were claiming Mason specifically, because it seems less likely there would be 2 pairs than one. When Anya fullclaimed I assumed she was fakeclaiming a weak PR that would not draw a kill, and that her mason buddy would clear her at a later stage. I assumed she would pretend to have targeted her mason buddy toNight and her mason buddy could lie and say they received the announcing pm. I was probably going to claim this all tomorrow if she lied about targeting me with announcing and I received no PM.

The only reason I'm claiming all this now is (1) I thought DWLee was the secret partner and if he is asking I know this is not the case, and (2) T3s assessment of the modgames involved in Voyeur/Combined BS Vig makes sense to me

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So if ssbm is honest, anya is lying...

I dont see the correlation, sure it's possible but I dont think it makes sense. The claimed roles make sense together and I dont think Anya Cyrus are ever a team here as Cyrus just isn't scum with that claim

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I still don't follow, are you implying that there really is a neighborhood and the questionable bit is "if ssbm is being honest", or are you just stating the obvious that we both lied about there being a hood?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm not actually in both groups, maybe he forgot to put me in both but the post I think is a joke? Or VFP can you EBWOP/explain it if it'sserious?

Pedit: nm

[ssbm_Kyouko]

gambiting masons

And by this I meant scum pretending to clear DGB, not actual masons.

Of course you'd trust fake masons over real ones if there were any.

You believe Anya Of The Many Lies. Of course you do.

Have you not wondered why Anya isn't suspicious of Kyouko being scum for going along with that so-called mason, then neighbor gambit????

It's because she is lying scum.

I dont think anyone in this player list has the meta on me at gamestart to know I am likely to go along with Anya as either alignment, and with the state of this game I dont see anyone on a scum!Anya's team putting in the effort to meta the player list looking for someone to try this on.

So I don't think she's scum here.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'll be VLA tomorrow for Fathers Day

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm very confused by them choosing to shoot Cyrus and not roleblock him as well. I also have pause on Titus!scum because I think Cyrus' last stated target was Titus.

A jailkeeper flipped, not a role blocker. Being Jailed protects you from kills so there is no "safe" nk on Cyrus by Jailing him as that would also protect him.

ssbm, what do you think about Titus and Andres?

I think there are scum in Titus, Rathe, T3 - largely due to the stance they had on Anya and I before I claimed.

Andres here is playing essentially the same as in a recent mini normal we played together that he was town in, but T3, VFP, Save the Dragons were all in that game too. With so many of the same players shared between the playerlists he could just be mimicking his previous gameplay as scum. I will need to look more closely at him, but gun to my head he's town here

Like what?

what do u want to know

What makes you very town?

i thought u would ask specific questions but my iso is the same as all the times i have been town what made me town then makes me town now

VOTE: Rathe

Can someone address my theory that scum are in the neighbor claims?

r u saying both of them or just anya

At least one, if not both.

Why would scum target a neighbor claim if they believed it? Anya didn't claim she was lying about being a neighbor until d2, yet she was allegedly blocked n1. I doubt anything blockish exists but the jailkeeper.

Neighbors don't have actions, so blocking there makes no sense.

So for anya's claim to be true, scum likely knew the neighbors to be fake, thus ssbm scum.

If anya's claim isn't true, then she's scum.

They could be scum together but that's not necessarily true from my analysis.

If Anya targeted a JKed player she would receive no result. She targeted Peta N1 iirc? Is that right or have I forgotten the target? We now have seen Peta and the JK flip. Going to look at Peta's D1 for softs/crumbs - scum may have perceived a vigilante crumb on one of their team as a threat and locked his ass up

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Rathe was in our last game as well - T3 and Rathe both on alts

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yes y'all are correct about the jailkeep on Cyrus consideration, although jailkeeping peta would not have given Anya no result.

oh I'm dumb. I already asked about it earlier in the thread too I think. I get the power of the jaolkeeper mixed up cuz I think of the target being in a cell where nobody can get to them, but it only stops killers from getting them, not other powers. I always think a JK does what a Rolestopper does I think.

VOTE: VFP

I'm too lazy to point to all the posts that nom wrote against VFP, but it was definitely not bus'ing. Nom even did a phony meta dive against VFP.

VFP gets town points.

I think VFP is the one that caught nom in the first place, but after the replace others lost steam on the slot

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm still going through names but I was reading nom and osuka and rathe all together and it seems unlikely. Right now thinking T3/Titus or T3/chaos but never chaos with Titus. Kinda forgot STD was in this game so I'll have to keep reading, isos are getting heavy though tbh.

VOTE: T3

Vfp, dotw, dgb all seem to be town. Anya as well, and I want to say dwlee. I'm gonna focus toDay on narrowing my poe.

UNVOTE:

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Wow I'm still waking up it seems. Leaning in t3s direction but I'm gonna a make coffee and read a few things first

[ssbm_Kyouko]

It'll probably help me but only you can know if it's gonna help town as a whole

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Actually if it clears anya it should be claimed, I think Anya is kinda the fulcrum around which we're swinging and if she becomes conftown I think everything else will fall into place

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Guess I didnt post this last night, got the prod (and since I wrote it before bed last night, tomorrow means today):

Need to narrow this poe down tomorrow if possible. Rathe doesn't have a replacement yet I think and T3/STD were quick ISOs. Will focus chaos/titus tomorrow
T3
Save The Dragons
ChaosOmega
Rathe
Titus

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Ah I remember reading Rathe, Nom/Vax, and Osuka now as I read the dead scum with chaos. Scratch rathe from poe

[ssbm_Kyouko]

What's the case on Andres?

I thought it was weird for him to say "I'll try to avoid being the default [elim] for the day". When I say weird I dont mean scummy, it seemed weird because it didnt seem to me like he was in that position. Looking back though it does seem like he had the most votes at the time so I guess i get that.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Maybe dwlee vfp you can talk about why andres? Maybe it's
further back in your iso but I'm on mobile atm and not seeing why

Pedit: is everyone else out already or who is partner? I saw VFP's post about the unvotes indicating a bus

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Can you clarify what you're asking in your pedit?

Yeah I mean is everyone else out of your poe for today already, or who do you think could be andres' last partner?

I saw VFP made a post (below) somewhat recently that he said means there was a bus. Not sure which wagon he's talking about but I thought he was concluding that andre was being bussed by either STD or Chaos based on the context.

I think Andre is a good shout here.
The hop off from everyone in my lim pool just makes me think there was a bus.

The fact that Dwlee and Chaos are still on while both being town reads says a lot too.

Regardless though, T3 should claim more I at least agree with that.
And let's not give any false information if town, T3.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Or actually I think he TRs Chaos, maybe prior to the VC someone else was on and unvoted and that's who he meant

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm just gonna go with t3 rn as the claim doesn't change anything. I'm still down on my poe posted earlier, minus rathe. VFP Andre can I convince you two to come together on this?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh VOTE: t3

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Just for Kyo's sake

[arthur_fist.jpg]

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Ok, I have seen this problem occur too much and it's problematic. I also won't have the time to defend myself given my schedule.

I am a babysitter enabler. That means we likely have babysitters and talking about who you'd vig and protect in the same post is a problem.

I could gamble on not having to claim at all, but that seems unlikely with Nero accusing my VLA of being game related.

I'm sick of this argument. No one is going to persuade anyone else. No one seems to doubt themselves. While I am pro everyone crumb, I don't see myself convincing anyone and its detracting from developing reads.

what if you're shit at crumbing things

i can't believe i forgot to vote

VOTE: osuka

I'm right there with you, which is why I recommend multiple targets. Even if you're obvious scum won't know which you target if you are even a PR at all.

For instance, if you leave a doctor and a cop crumb, then scum won't know if you're healing or copping someone. You could be crumbing a roleblock as well.

Thinking emoji

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Kyo - you're a wasted vote right now. How do you feel about the two competing wagons?

Leaning toward Titus right now, I was reading the two isos a couple days ago, and same as t3 she's pushing on anya and I as scum still because of the neighbors thing but I feel like I've been open about why I went along with Anya's neighborhood claim and I think her voyeur claim is believable as well. So I dont understand the suspicion specifically around the neighbors - I cant remember if anya claimed before cyrus or not as the game has been kind of dragging this day phase, but voyeur does make sense with the combined bs/vig.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think DGB needs to be hard ignored regardless. And I don’t understand the impulse to consolidate on STD here.

Dgb and dotw are masons though

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Pagetop!

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Am I just totally brainfarting? I thought there were some interactions with nom someone cited to me as being reasons for town!rathe.

I think andre pointed them out, idr, maybe I pointed them out. I remember reading him in iso with the flipped scum and ruling him out of poe

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm not certain but I'm thinking it's likely

Perfect.
All votes on me or Gamma. A green flip on either means the other next day.

As I said, you WILL regret this.
I'm an Odd-Night PT Cop, and StD was Rathe's N1 check. The result was that he has no PT so unless StD is traitor he's confirmed town, and traitor loses if all the other scum get eliminated so he's not a priority.
Still want to 1-v-1?

What if the "informed" scum role knew that their was a PT cop. that would give scum motive to claim neighbor right out of the gate so they had an excuse if the PT cop saw they were in a PT.

VOTE: Anya

I thought this too when I saw gamma claim

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think Andres is the best lim here but people jumped off that wagon. STD is just PoE

I think this post is towny btw
StD is either town or traitor so either way scum probably would treat them the same way, so the fact DotW is trying to actively push his scumread over a PoE suspect is towny

What's up with the fixation on traitor?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

yeah I think Titus is town
I BELIEVE VFP and kyouko should know why

I have no idea why.
Tell me.

Seems kinda wild to try to "trick" the pt cop in 2 different ways, (by making "masons" with no PT and also including a traitor that would be a scum with no pt. Are towns other roles strong enough to warrant that kind of handicapping here?

We have...

Odd night Pt cop
2x Informed "masons"
Combined Babysitter-Vigilante

2-shot announcing voyeur?
Babysitter Enabler?

Informed Jailkeeper

I think it just comes down to titus and/or anya now, looking at the roles. scum!Titus could have been informed of the babysitter, and scum!anya could have been informed of the PT cop. Knowing we have informed "masons" with no pt makes it unlikely there is a traitor because that really fucks with the PT cop.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Wait

[ssbm_Kyouko]

What if he mod literally put anya into a 1-person neighborhood lmao

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Checking if that's allowed in a Normal

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Unclear from wiki but probably the wording "neighbors are considered normal" means there must be plural neighbors

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Idk, what was passed off as anya being a troll early in the game, it just seems so on the nose for these PRs. that there is a pt cop and masons without a pt, it's just unusual that she started the game claiming to be a mason in a 1-player masonry. I'm going to wait for her comment though.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: ChaosOmega

[ssbm_Kyouko]

my guts are telling me that

What are they telling you?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I believe scum don't have multi-tasking by default in normals, and I don't see anything in the op saying they do (which I think is required if they do).

That's what I thought but I was told in a game that it's standard now days.

I thought it was only standard in newbies but that was like 5 years ago. Pretty sure normal guidelines are that scum is only multitasking with the modifier, but maybe, like with Daytalk, it is off by default unless the mod turns it on and broadcasts in the rules that it is on.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I also think I've already claimed VT when I was explaining my thought process re: Anya, but as it's been brought up a couple of times recently, there it is.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Chaos' progression on Gamma looks sus to me, I dont think we have to lim Gamma today. Rathe is simply not scum with osuka

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Can someone explain the nom wagon because I don't get it at all?

read his iso n it feels like he lost something he originally had

he came in kinda bold now it feels like he is deflated

he wanted dwlee to prove himself n vote me n when he did he said he was mafia

So I got nom and osuka mixed up. There are points where rathe is pushing osuka but it doesnt come to anything early on in the game. But here is the culmination of rathe's push on nomnomnom, who later flipped a pretty strong PR. Just before this nom "takes a reset" and rereads the game and suddenly shifts his suspicions off of Rathe. If they were scum together this is an easy time for scum!rathe to ease off of nom, but he doesnt. The push continues here. Pretty sure as you continue to read the iso of rathe, osuka, and nom, switching from non to vax at the replace, Rathe is consistent in pushing both of them. That's what I recall from the reread I did about a week or two ago before Rathe replaced out. Game's been dragging a bit since, but I still think my previous poe is good here.

T3 (No PT)
Save The Dragons (No PT)
ChaosOmega
Titus

So Chaos or Titus are both good today in my book. If they're both town I'd reconsider Gamma/Rathe

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yeetus
VOTE: Titus

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Kyo why is Andres out of your PoE?

I faked a guilty on him in mini 2213 because I was heavily scumreading him for playing the same there as he has been here. Like he was very inactive, when he did post he had only a little to say until he was put under pressure, and he made frequent promises he would catch up, but didn't always follow through. It feels the same to me here.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

One thought is that nom saying I was scum for voting Rathe is kind of chainsawy, which could indicate partners. I could also just see Osuka/Nom(Vax) aggressively distancing. I noticed Vax and Osuka getting into a little read debate at one point.

As easily as it could be chainsawing if you put that situation in a vacuum and ignore the rest of rathe/nomslot interactions, in the same vacuum it can just be a trap to set up a reason to SR you. Which is what Nero was saying at the time iirc

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Kyo why is Andres out of your PoE?

I faked a guilty on him in mini 2213 because I was heavily scumreading him for playing the same there as he has been here. Like he was very inactive, when he did post he had only a little to say until he was put under pressure, and he made frequent promises he would catch up, but didn't always follow through. It feels the same to me here.

I feel like this is something very easy to fake or to not be alignment indicative.

With the way I've described it, sure, it sounds that way. But being in both games in close proximity i can feel it better than I can put it to words. Gamma and Dragons were town there when I faked the guilty, Rathe was scum, and T3 was scum, but already dead when that happened. Maybe Gamma/Dragons can comment on Andres better.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Now that I think about it maybe VFP was in the game as well

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I still don't see why scum!Titus/Andre leaves gamma alive.

If 2/3 of Gamma's pool are mainscum I dont think they leave him alive. If 0-1/3 are mainscum, it might be a risk they have to take, when the alternative is flipping town!Gamma. Assuming he is town, poe is vastly reduced by killing Gamma last Night. So if Gamma is town, we're likely looking at either:

1 mainscum in {Titus, Andres} (Gamma's pool minus the cleared T3) AND 1 scum outside this

OR

2 scum outside {Titus, Andres}

And tbh, looking back at the pool, T3 seems quite likely to be checked. Guy's an enigma by playstyle, so I see the former situation as more likely. If 1 scum is in that pool and thinking "how likely is it that Gamma checks me over the others", and they see T3 there, they might be inclined to risk it for WIFOM. And look at how close we were to eliminating Gamma toDay.

Now if Titus and Andres are both mainscum that would be a bold move.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

T3 if that's all you have to say I'm pretty sure you're scum.

Sheep me vote t3.

VOTE: Rathe

anyway i think we have talked mechanics enough who r u voting dwlee voting me or t3 is not good

Not sure if this was because Dwlee was scumreading T3 at the time but this would've been a perfect chance for Rathe to drop STD as a bad vote

VOTE: STD

VOTE: T3
Okay I'll buy it

Sorry they're out of order, on mobile so formatting is a pain rn but Dwlee was pushing T3 so I can see Rathe just responding to that but right before T3 Dwlee was on STD

Given rathe's posting style I think it's likely he's responding to recent events. As I recall he rarely quotes and is almost always in the moment

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I don't feel like you give the scum a jailkeeper to block a voyeur. Protecting against the vigilante thing makes some sense sure it just doesn't feel like it fits enough in here maybe. Maybe it's just Titus/Andre.

What about caging the vig though? I think voyeur can be strong if the BS/Vig has claimed as it would see a jailkeep happen on the claimed PR. That's probably why it is X-shot, so it cant be used to "rolecop" the jailkeeper, and also potentially confirm PT Cop and BS/Vig.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Fair. I actually just finished a game as traitor so if you want you can look at that game and se how I treat other players there vs. here.

Hint: he blows his team up in the first post and is very active by T3 standards, because he's constantly crumbing lmao

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Nah dwelee is town.

Titus and nero are also town.

osuka is town.

peta I have no idea about.

Hm
If T3 learned from last time, this would potentially be how he crumbs this time? How long was FIA WRC in irl days?

It just ended a couple days ago and lasted like a week or two total at most I feel. Think this one was well underway before it started

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Kyouko was T3’s partner so I feel like his perspective might be more insightful, and you also didn’t provide a comment that was just snark

Well I knew he was the traitor in his first post and I was still convinced he was a real detective when he guiltied tris and shot him. I'm kinda tilted about that game tbh. I felt boxed in by how obvious his crumbs were and felt there was no leeway to let him flip. Also when Tris TAed Dwlee it made me think he was masons with shrek alongside their greg the egg crumb. I did well enough to push Zyla and defend myself against Taco in that game, but my night play and mechanics were just shit, feel pretty bad about that game in general.

The main concern I have is what motivated T3 to make such a bold play there
If we find that out I think a final answer can be reached

I dont know why he made the play he did there, you'd have to ask him. We never had a PT

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I thought that because Manatee was pr she couldn't have killed, so I hard bussed for towncred. Then I would have faked an inocent result on kyo, mislim Lucifer or Zyla, mislim Titus meanwhile we're both cleared.

I thought this was it. I had manatee kill that night because she already found dwlee could communicate and I assumed shrek was a mason with [someone] and was trying to confirm that dwle

e99

was greg the egg.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

For context, T3 traitor was also a combined neighborizing rolecop, but he was fake claiming to be a combined neighborizing detective. He bussed my mainscum partner Tris because when he neighborized her, he saw she was a traffic analyst, and thought she hadn't killed yet so I would know he was faking the guilty. But she had killed, I thought it was a real guilty, and I shot him and flipped him as a traitor. Lol.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Everyone who separated the two was confirmed not babysitter in my eyes.

wait what, who would crumb that they would both protect and vig the same person? Nobody would ever do that as the actions are opposites, even a babysitter wouldn't crumb it this way, even though their role accomplishes it, because their "crumb" would look obviously unusual that way

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I kinda like the idea of no lim as it takes us back to odds, but it's probably better to do that tomorrow or the next day so Gamma can check in a smaller poe than if we did it today.

I still think no traitors here as it means the pt cop is getting fucked with both by a traitor and by PT-less "masons"

Assuming Gamma is town we have:

3 town
DotW
Gamma
STD
--
And a poe of 5 to lim/investigate
Kyouko
Chaos
Dwlee
Vfp
Andres

Gamma exists so we can force scum to kill by no eliminating tomorrow (if they try to match no elim with no kill, we can repeat once for Gamma investigstion). We have 3 Days to 3-way limlo if we go lim, no lim, lim. Gamma can clear 2 more players in that time, so scum will have to shoot outside of the poe, otherwise the poe comes down too fast for scum to survive final 3.

I'm down to clown with Chaos, and have Gamma check the other. I think Chaos is more likely than VFP or Andres for sure - VFP vs nom is definitely not a partner interaction

VOTE: Chaos

Pedit: hadn't considered traitor!Gamma, but Rathe was town

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also this burst of Andres energy happened with town!andres in 2213 iirc

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also this burst of Andres energy happened with town!andres in 2213 iirc

You mean when I had a detailed breakdown of the game and I put forth the Scummiest player in the game and was correct? Yeah, this isn’t that. But still, if nobody wants me to post or cares about my opinion, I can just sheep whoever I think is most competent and that’s it.

Nah I meant the uptick in activity later on in the game

Also in this type of situation, whoever has made a lot of mistakes isn’t likely to be Scum in my experience. I firmly believe you need to look for subtler clues.

what's the context to this? Who has made a lot of mistakes/isn't likely to be scum?

also not rereading anything except recent pages so glhf

someone give me a summary

Gamma is an odd night pt cop, likely town I think, STD has no PT. Chaos is probably the last scum here, and the poe is small enough at this point the game's pretty much won as long as Gamma's town. Oh and DotW is an informed townie that knows dgb is town and knows dgb is informed that he (DotW) is town. Confirmed by DGB before it flipped. So DotW is conftown

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Everyone else has claimed VT iirc.

P sure this is the case. I can confirm I am VT. Maybe VFP/Koba or STD hadn't claimed but I think they both did.

Personally I think the presence of the mutually informed townies is already screwing with Gamma and he's further handicapped by odd-night. I dont think a traitor would also be involved there, as it further muddies his results.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

We still have a no lim but it should come tomorrow I think so we reduce the poe by 1 today and by another overnight with Gamma's check

[ssbm_Kyouko]

It should be clear to anyone that's actually been reading this game before today's day phase why I'd ask Koba to claim

I dont understand this, and I feel like we won't move toward a lim until this gets resolved. If you want him to claim and are looking to wagon him to get it out of him, we're just dragging this out.

No need to hide why he should be claiming if you're not going to back down. Why should he claim?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Alright well we have 8 days, theres time to do this and get back to business once the claim's out. DotW, is what Dwlee says close enough to the case? That the reason he should claim.shouldnt be said before he claims?

VOTE: Dkkoba

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: kyouko

Im not claiming. If you think that's scummy ur honestly worse than the people new at this game no fucking cap

I dont think vfp was scum and I dont think you are either, I'm voting you because I dont think DotW will move until you've claimed, and we need to lim in the poe to finish the game. We have 8 irl days to go, there's plenty of time now to get your claim and move on. You're part of the poe too, just not my preference, especially with you softing PR.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

what's the context to this? Who has made a lot of mistakes/isn't likely to be scum?

I think a simple read of Gamma’s ISO would certainly reinforce this point.

Sorry, DGB.

I still dont understand, since DGB is dead and flipped town. Who is it that has made a lot of mistakes? Or are you saying Gamma made a lot of mistakes and apologizing to DGB in the dead thread, as separate posts?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: chaos

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Now, Kyouko’s voting history is horrific. They’ve found ways to avoid every Scum execution I think.

I think I was on Titus, and iirc I was offline around osuka's lim. I remember coming back to the locked thread, not sure if he was a flash wagon or not though.

What I want is for those who are voting for Chaos to explain themselves outside of DW who already has tried to. I just don’t think TMI and vote parking Scum are particularly strong arguments.

I think rathe was town so I'm looking to run through poe. I dont think scum has a traitor so I'm looking at Chaos>Dwlee and game should be over in one of those 2. Limming me is fine as well as long as the check is in chaos, dwlee.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Kyo/Gamma no quick day, agreed?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Can we just lim someone that's not Gamma and let him go for a check? The same reasoning applies to Chaos if I'm limmed so it really doesnt matter here who it is as long as we stay in the poe.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Gamma checked STD on N1 and T3 on N3, neither had a PT. Gamma who did you check?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I concede, I hoped gamma was x-shot lying about being even night
VOTE: ssbm Kyouko

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh I finally understand how anya got no result N1 lmao, the Rolestopper. Wild.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Listen I think your investment in the game helped the Town win. You did good. Nero was brilliant and needs to be highlighted I feel. And Cyrus did brilliant by bringing Scum down with them.

Nero made us kill him D1 I feel, nailing Titus like that, leading town very well. I had a hard time engaging with him leading the discussion as well, once he was dead though I was able to get into the game a bit better.

Felt hard to be scum in a large. Playing a large in general seems much harder than a Mini, but maybe it would have been easier to play as town. Think I'll wait a bit before my next large. GGs to all

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think there were town pitfalls they just didnt fall into this game. The BS vig being able to shoot the Rolestopper, the town having a weak investigative in voyeur that could conceivably get a result that confuses town