Open 81 - The New C9 - Game Over

[farside22]

farside replaces Battlemage effective immediately. She has let me know that she may not be able to read the thread prior to deadline though.

The deadline will be in about 13 hours time.

This is true. Rogueben ask if I could replace, but weekend are very hectic for me. I will try and read as much as I can, but the time frame for deadline could not be worse for me.

[farside22]

I see Ting and Fonz as town vs. town to be honest. I like a BM lynch...but with a replacement, it would be both unsporting and also unwise to push for that lynch til farside has spoken since she might be able to defend herself, or at least present her views to be examined if we lynch her later. So...

Unvote

...I'm kinda stumped now .

You can ask me some questions if you think it would help. Right now it's looking like I'm not getting a break any time soon. At least a long enough break to read 50 pages.

[farside22]

My compliments to the scum. Nice set-up.

farside, what's your take on things?

Remind me the next time someone ask me to replace that I ask who I'm replacing. Man BM wrote some weird things that just made no sense. I started writing notes about everyone, but after 12 pages I felt my eyes glaze over. So I just started reading everything.
I had one question:
How in the world did Forbidden get ignored after claiming vanilla day 1 at L-3 and never get looked at against. I looked at the fact that she jumped on one bw after another yesterday was the worse.
SC: I understand why you shot silence. His lack of comments and under the radar play didn't help. I am surprised that with Ting coming up town you didn't shot Fonz. I read that argument and felt that Ting had better points then Fonz did. Let me get quotes on this and show you my issues.
I really didn't like strife or forbidden's back and forth on votes yesterday. I feel like one of the two of them is scum that was trying to protect a scum buddy.
I will be back with quotes in a bit.

[farside22]

Sorry this will be a long post.

Forbidden:
First we have the really bad comment:

FoS STrangerCoug. I rather dislike how reluctant you were to get off the mason claimants, and then still trying to make it look like they could be scum. It's been beaten to death, but let's reiterate again. D1 mason claims would be pretty stupid for scum to do. I'm not ready to vote you yet, but should a wagon appear on you, I will sure as hell join it.

Then she states the following:

Well, in case you all DO want to kill me shortly, I might as well point out I'm a vanilla townie. No claim here, continue voting at will. I'm actually quite astounded that that one statement got a wagon on me. To be honest, I was justifying intuition. I don't feel that StrangerCoug is town, but I'm maddeningly incapable of backing that up with much more, hence why I only FoS'd. I didn't want to start the bandwagon because I didn't have any "real" evidence. If a wagon started, my intuition would be more justified, and I also might actually find the reason that I'm suspicious of him, other than what I said. I also think at this point there is probably at least one scum on my wagon (since they should pretty clearly know I'm not scum). Given that, I will vote Vamparific since from what I can tell, he just waltzed in and jumped on the running wagon

So instead of looking for something she will will wait for others to find something scummy and jump on the BW vote?

I will vote Vamparific since from what I can tell, he just waltzed in and jumped on the running wagon. Pretty easy way to hide as everyone was accusing me of attempting to do. I also am supsicious of StrangerCoug, but since that's not likely to go anywhere, let's hit the other one who looks mildly scummy here.

I really dislike this second part of the same post. I mean instead of scum hunting this is the equivilent of lurker lynching. Granted Vamp was not a great player, but there was more going on then just vamp's bad play

Will you keep your vote on me, take it off, spontaneously combust? (scum, please choose the third option). I think it'd be rather helpful to know.

Why did a statement like this never get addressed? I mean this just looks like an attempt to move a wagon onto someone else when you make statements like the above.

Um...that's...pretty ridiculous. The scum know who they aren't. They already know I'm a townie, no matter what I said. And plus, I could be lying about being a townie, and could have a role I'd rather keep hidden. I don't, but it's a possibility. There's also the fact that since it looks like we had a rather fast wagon on me that possibly could have gone to completion, claiming regular townie at least reassures people they aren't killing an aux. Really, I don't see stating "I am a vanilla townie" as a tell either way.

This is bad. If you were a power role claiming Vanilla when you look like you are about to be lynched is bad.


A lot of her post went on how great the case is against Vamp. I thought Vamp played terrible, but it's about as close to lurker lynching. I just can't believe people followed the case when Muertto replaced. Yuck.

Forbidden: Can you explain how what Korts did was rolefishing?

In regards to this quote:

m, wow, ok. Geez...I want to stick on vamp, but I want to vote Korts too...that is blatant rolefishing...but...I feel better about vamp. No reasoning at all. However, HoS:Korts. Even if it's not rolefishing it's pointing something out that can only help the scum. Even if you think it's obvious, you don't come out and say it, because there is always a chance of stupid scum. In fact, isn't this the main argument against me? Revealing I'm a townie lowers the pool of power roles...but saying "Well, you've made it clear you aren't the vig"...doesn't? I think that's nigh hypocritical.

Also lots of back and forth on the stance of role fishing.


Here was forbidden's thoughts on iam

username: I don't like how he questions. He seems to set up questions so that no matter what you say is wrong and it will lead to you being scummy. However, I also can't disagree with results, and personally I'd be interested in seeing how Greasy Spot turns up eventually. He did something odd mentioning strife early game but not armix in which was scummier. I don't feel strongly that he's scum cause of that though...either way, this is about username. To be fair, Korts is right you keep reiterating armix's case, but to be fair, others have either. Given your overall play, and how you are actively scum hunting, I lean town.

Hows that town analysis on Iam looking now in retrospect?

Well FRIDGE. Unvote, vote Tin Vision. He was scummy when I last checked the game, and he hasn't done much to assuage that. Now, moving right along, what the FRIDGE!?

Where did you state this before? I see nothing about seeing TV as scum in your post.

I'm fine with my vote on Tin, but BlakAdder and Korts seem to be good plays as well. Also Muerto, but not as much.

Why do I feel like she keeps changing her mind about Muerrto/Vamp

Well, since it appears more people are interested in a BlakAdder lynch than a Tin Vision lynch, I will unvote, vote BlakAdder. Really, both of them are fine lynches by my sights.

IE: My case is failling lets BW someone else

Tin case doesn't work out with BA as town. Nevermind. Vote Muerrto for the same reasons I've been wanting to lynch his ass all game.

Really? But didn't you kind of flip flop back there a bit on this case. What changed your mind back to him as scum?

Well...crap. Ok then. Unvote. To be honest, I could see a Jordan/BM lynch just as well. IIRC Jordan would pop in every so often with pseudoanalysis and then leave for days at a time :S. Vote: BM

Oh crap I have nothing let me vote for someone that looks good.


Now how did you go from stating this twice:

The favoring Ting from agreeing with Korts? Korts didn't take a side I don't think.

To doing this:

Alright, I'm gonna buffer the doctor. Sorry Ting (I HATE making choices like this , but PR beats potential VT)
BM doesn't have enough votes. I don't think the Fonz does either, and I'm not sure he's the play either :S.

What case did you have of BM and before the Ting vote you thought he had a point.

Yep. I didn't get good vibes from Jordan and BM didn't do anything except coast.

Oh I see lurker vote. Nice. No it's okay why scum hunt?

Overall I see just someone gliding by. Making a blah case and then doing quick turn arounds over and over. I still can't believe a townie claim just gets glossed by because Vamp play.

Next up will be Fonz.

[farside22]

The Fonz (Enlight_Bystand)

The 3 post from Enlight was very vague. I felt like he talked a lot but said nothing at all.
The Fonz's first big post talks about everything in the game thus far, what I don't like about it is that he too does what Forbidden does which is vote for a lurker. I mean all that comment and the best person to vote on is a lurker?

Just to make clear: I do not think the Blakadder lynch is optimal, but it's fine as a deadline lynch. There is some case against him.

This is a post to say nothing. Oh I think it bad right now, but maybe at deadline. Well how about lynching someone you think is scummy instead.

o.O You said that he never gave reasons, waaaay in day 1, even after he had. I pointed that out - by quoting his reasons.

That's an outright lie. I never said that.

Actually you did state that. Not word for word, but yes you did:

I said he dropped the IAAUN thing without explaining why.

I really suggest everyone reads post: 824
I swear I felt like Fonz was going back and forth and saying nothing at all in this post. Also I don't get why Fonz wasn't satisfied with GS. He keeps using these analogies but people make mistakes. That is what makes us human.


I admit reading Fonz is hard. There are so many big post he makes and it all is against Ting. I would like to here a case against someone beside Ting. He did state at one point:

Willing to switch to strife at deadline. The BM case doesn't seem to be more than 'has gone inactive.' We have another method to deal with that, if you catch my drift.

Okay why Strife?

[farside22]

The rest will continue on Monday. Busy weekend ahead.

[farside22]

You know farside, I DID mention tin vision before in my wall of text. read everything next time. And overall this game is boring. Nothing interesting has happened for two days except more deaths. And now we lack a cop. Obviously I was wrong on Iam because I didn't follow my gut. My bad.

I really dislike this second part of the same post. I mean instead of scum hunting this is the equivilent of lurker lynching. Granted Vamp was not a great player, but there was more going on then just vamp's bad play

You weren't there. There really wasn't that much to go off of.

Really? But didn't you kind of flip flop back there a bit on this case. What changed your mind back to him as scum?

Bullshit. I never flipped OFF of Muerrto scum, I just thought I saw better, and expected Vamp to be vigged anyway.

IE: My case is failling lets BW someone else

More like the case was based off of one as the others buddy.

You know what? Screw this. You are strawmanning the hell out of me and you know it. I'm going to

Vote farside

. I was kinda hoping you'd be town. You aren't.

So you ignored almost everytihing I said. Didn't show a quote where you addressed a case on tinvision. And voted me using strawman as a defense. Did I miss anything?

[farside22]

Sorry that should be BM not TV. When did you have a case against BM?

[farside22]

Slow game

Can we mass-claim and get that over with?

Quoted for truth.

Mod: Please prod all inactive players.

My guess is a Korts/Penguin/Farside trio. I'd like to see Penguin lynched today most of all, I think.

Korts being scum does not explain my surviving Night 2.

I agree. I don't see Korts as scum. Mass claim is good with me.

[farside22]

Okay 2 things first. Strife what is your case on me?
Second to forbidden: Here was what you said about Jordan.

JordanA24: Finally shows up page 9 with an analysis post. Finds SC, forbiddanlight, and vamparific his top suspects. SC for hiding in shadows, a quick wagon disintegration, and the general bending to others wills to look townie, forbiddan for following bandwagons, claiming needlessly and confusing posts. Vamp for being most obviously scummy with the one liners and "I keep screwing myself over". Probably would vote SC if he voted then, Vamp is tempting, possibly forbiddan. FoS' BlakAdder's bandwagoning. States he meant that the claimed mason would be dead before the other scum claimed mason. Feels Vamp wagon is scum driven, as well as forbiddan's, feels Cougar is more scummy than Korts, so the connection should be tested there. Does not see armix as scummy. Sees BlakAdder as a decent wagon, REALLY sees tin vision as scummy and would vote him if it weren't for SC.

Jordan: Well, he's not afraid to speak his mind, even when he shows up that late. I like that, and it's also drawing attention to him which is what scum don't want. I like that kind of start. I like a lot of his analysis as well, and definitely seems to be working for the town. I'd like to see more small posts that relate to the current things, rather than mega analysis posts, (because you are more likely to give yourself away as scum in small posts you don't put as much work into), but otherwise, I lean town.

I believe Strife was the first person to mention some oddities about BM and him comments about Armlx that you just followed along with what Strife stated.

[farside22]

The Fonz: ???
fobiddanlight: Vanilla townie
farside22: ???
Korts: Doctor
skitzer: Mason (confirmed)
StrangerCoug: Vigilante (confirmed)
strife220: ???
orangepenguin: Vanilla Townie


I presume the rest of you are claiming too then? Also, do games usually have two docs, because killa 7 was the doc, but was killed Day 0. But the set-up says 0-2 doctors. The list says Korts is unconfirmed, but since he protected SC, doesn't that make him confirmed as well?
The set-up has 0-2 which means there could be 2 doc's.
Should I do the popcorn method, and choose someone, or should we have whoever responds first?

[farside22]

The Fonz: ???
fobiddanlight: Vanilla townie
farside22: ???
Korts: Doctor
skitzer: Mason (confirmed)
StrangerCoug: Vigilante (confirmed)
strife220: ???
orangepenguin: Vanilla Townie


I presume the rest of you are claiming too then? Also, do games usually have two docs, because killa 7 was the doc, but was killed Day 0. But the set-up says 0-2 doctors. The list says Korts is unconfirmed, but since he protected SC, doesn't that make him confirmed as well?

The set-up has 0-2 which means there could be 2 doc's.

Should I do the popcorn method, and choose someone, or should we have whoever responds first?

Sorry mine in bold. Popcorn works if everyone is on the same page for claiming. Any perference on who goes first?

[farside22]

I think OP it should be decided by most who should claim first. However I think I will start this and we will just do popcorn.

I am vanilla town

OP you are next

[farside22]

he already claimed vanilla townie, he filled the list in. see post 1291

I completely missed that.

[farside22]

After the next vote count, I'm going to hop on this wagon.

I actually agree...but I plan to hold back til about 1 or 2 days before deadline. I'd rather get farside lynched because the way she painted me and Fonz (and didn't analyze anyone else?) feels like she's trying to put together a mislynch.

Sorry this game fell off my radar. I will work on this by tomorrow the latest.

I really don't like OP's quick vote on FL with no reason. Everyone he claims is scum has attacked him and is really base on nothing more then OMGUS.

[farside22]

Ugh I'm so behind with this game.

Korts what did you see that makes you think Fonz and at the time FL as scum?

[farside22]

three confirmed, I'm half a masonry.

I will get to this game when time permits. I am REALLY SORRY.

News spoiler you are dead.

[farside22]

Sorry again. Remind me to not replace in a game over 20 pages. Grrr.

SC: What in your read changed your mind from strife scum to town?

Also I'm wondering about strife since SC voted and no one said boo about it except Korts. I need to see how many people started in this game. People thinking one or two mafia left?

[farside22]

Two. It's a semi-open setup, and the number of scum is known.

Ah. See this is why I need to read through the game a bit more.

[farside22]

I will pay anyone to go thru and give me an analysis on each player. Please?

[farside22]

Running the numbers, if Korts' claim is genuine, then scum HAVE to get him lynched today, or the best they can do is a draw.

I don't understand how this is true. If Korts is town and lynched today, scum win regardless of SC's night action since 1 town + 1 scum = scum win. If Korts is town and we mislynch someone else, scum kills Korts tonight for the scum win.

If Korts claim is genuine and we mislynch today, scum win. Unless Korts can protect himself, which I doubt since the doc PM doesn't say he can.

I will pay anyone to go thru and give me an analysis on each player. Please?

SC = confirmed vig

Korts = claimed doc on D3 (i think). There was no scum nightkill N2, and he claims it's because he protected SC. The next two nights has scum killing masons instead of the claimed doc, putting us in the situation we're in now with a confirmed vig and unconfirmed doc. OP (scum) was lynched yesterday and as a last-ditch effort to either distance scum or mislynch town, OP claimed to be the real doc.

Fonz - Spent the entire game writing essays about how GreasySpot (replaced by Ting, confirmed town) was obv-scum. Honestly all I can recall about his play.

Me - Instigated Muerrto's mislynch. Strongly opposed Ting's mislynch. (I think) Instigated OP's lynch. Thinks Korts is the most likely scum, despite his doc claim.

Why do you believe that Korts is lying. Don't you think the whole discussion is just WIFOM at this point?

[farside22]

Why do you believe that Korts is lying. Don't you think the whole discussion is just WIFOM at this point?

If you rephrase your question to "why do you believe Korts is scum?" then I think I've already answered it. See my attacks earlier in the game (and everyone elses; he got to L-1 for a reason), + I don't think he'd be alive if he were town.

I can see scum trying to use this bait to get a townie lynched and I'm not biting. Like I said I think that is WIFOM. Why as why?

Fos: Strife

[farside22]

Are you saying Korts being alive is a null tell Farside?

Like I said I think that is WIFOM. Why as why?

... What?

Should say why ask why.

I could see the scum using it to cause a mislynch. I think it is a better idea to lynch a vanilla townie claim then a doc claim. I don't care for the way you keep pushing it either.

[farside22]

Happy scumday farside22.

I like Korts's most recent post, but that's all for now. I know I've been keeping quiet, but the last thing we want is a mislynch.

Thanks!

I think the scum pair are strife and fonz. They are both pushing the doc not being killed issue. It is WIFOM. That is what the mafia like to do.

[farside22]

farside, Fonz isn't really pushing the issue that I wasn't killed, he just said that that may be a point against me. It's WIFOM, yes, but it takes mafia with spunk to leave the doc alive. And I hate spunk.

BTW, happy scumday

Ah I read this by Fonz and I saw it as wishy washy. Sorry not pushing the case. Just like eluding

I can see the mafia nokilling to set up a doc claim. Or I could see lurker mafia failing to send in a kill at all. In isolation, it's most likely that it was a genuine docblock- but then, it's also likely that a genuine doc claimant dies by now.

[farside22]

I agree with korts on this. I'm been saying over and over that scum are more likely to use this tactic to make a doc look like scum then a townie would.

vote: strife

[farside22]

Now either Fonz hasn't calculated in the factor that there'll be TWO NKs if SC shoots, and that town will be going into D6 with 1:1 scum:town ratio if SC misses and scum pull off a kill,

OR

he's scum and wants SC to kill me, through this faulty logic. SC, I say that if you shoot tonight, shoot Fonz.

I think SC should decide between me or Fonz. We both claim vanilla and I don't see a reason to shoot korts.

[farside22]

I can't believe SC shot me instead of Fonz. Not that it matters. Oh well a tie is a tie.
I seriously mean it though. I am never replacing BM again. Terrible.

[farside22]

Well, at least Fonz had his way and got the draw. I'm... moderately pleased, I managed to get out of being lynched, although retrospectively, it seems the scum

let

me get out of it. I'm interested to hear why they didn't advocate a claimed doc lynch even a little, with farside outright defending me.

Sorry, strife, for pushing your lynch... I just thought it odd that you would push my wagon so hard when there was a clear possibility of me being the doc.

The reason I protected you from the lynch was thus:
I really didnt' expect as much twilight talk as there was. I was hoping that when strife turned up town in the lynch scene SC might think about taking you out for WIFOM factor. If the game had been locked before Strife said what he said I think SC would have had to think hard before pulling the tirgger.