Open 86 - Lovers Multiball (Game Over)

[Toaster Strudel]

Cupid's been very active in this game. Reading begins now. I will crack this game in 15 minutes.

[Toaster Strudel]

Alright.

IcemanEscum voted Opposed Force, RagingRabbit, Crazy,
IcemanEscum FOS'd dybeck and Alabaska (both were townies).

Firestarter/orangepenguinscum voted ErratusAppatos, RagingRabbit and Crazy

I'm going bet that one of RagingRabbit and Crazy is scum. If not both.

Crazy voted for WaltWishbone, Opposed Force, Iceman (scum), Charter, cerebus, OpposedForce.

Secondarily, OpposedForce may be scum.

RagingRabbit voted Firestarterscum, Adel, HarveyPew. But we already killed the scum in that trio, so no info from the votes.

Today I would vote for either RagingRabbit, Crazy, or Opposed Force.

[Toaster Strudel]

Looking at the most recent votecount I notice the following:

RagingRabbitscum and OpposedForcescum are flying under the radar not voting. Perhaps they laugh as the two leading wagons are townies?

[Toaster Strudel]

Talk is cheap, votes are money.

That's what she said.

*alt mixup*

[Toaster Strudel]

For clarification, I think that RagingRabbit, Crazy, or Opposed Force are likely WEREWOLVES.

I'm going to read these three in isolation to figure out which one is the best lynch.

[Toaster Strudel]

The RR/WWB pair may be werewolves. Writing it up now.

[Toaster Strudel]

Why not completely?

[Toaster Strudel]

@ RR, what are your thoughts about scum bus'ing each other right out of the garage depot?

[Toaster Strudel]

Quite a cunning trap you got there. I think it's extremely unwise in this particular setup, since there's another scum team you can be suspected as part of. Both Fire and Ice attacked me for poor reasons, obvioulsy I can't tell you why. Does anything other than that make you think I was busing?

No - however the universal prevalence of day 1 bus'ing within scumteams both amateur and experienced suggest this was probably the case.

What does this sentence mean?

"since there's another scum team you can be suspected as part of"

[Toaster Strudel]

@ Knight - please explain that slip you speak of.

[Toaster Strudel]

vote Darox

Everyone go!

Why?

[Toaster Strudel]

Yes, my mind is super-sensitive to Day 2 bus'ing.

[Toaster Strudel]

I think we got a live one.

unvote, vote: RagingRabbit

[Toaster Strudel]

It's not an argument at all. But I have played enough games to know how scum behaves. And I know that the werevolves were bus'ing - because scum teams do way more bus'ing than they do defending. Way more. And always out of the clear blue sky. That's what the werewolves have done, they have bus'ed their own.

Far fetched, you say? After a few hundred games under your belt, you might think differently.

That's why I believe that RR and lover are werevolves. They were bus'ing - thinking they'd get a free ride to endgame.

BTW Adel's alts are Adel and Oman. Everyone knows that.

That's what she said.

[Toaster Strudel]

The rest of the town has yet to follow, and I'll be very disappointed if they will.

Did you just confess scum?

[Toaster Strudel]

Scumteams use busing because it makes the buser look innocent, since it's unlikely he'd attack a scumpartner. Here, however, we have two scumteams rather than one, so busing does a lot less to clear you - a werewolf who bused a buddy could still be easily suspected as part of the mafia, and vice versa. The gain is thus too small to make it a wise move here.

Bus'ing is the intentional pushing for, or even leading, your buddies' lynch. A werewolf can't bus' a mafiate or vice-versa.

[Toaster Strudel]

BM, if you'll read past post 300 you'll see why we think he's town. I don't see him as completely confirmed, though.

I dont get it. And me reading that far might be a long-shot, so if you can explain succinctly now, that'd be helpful.

BM

BM, RagingRabbit is scum who hates to see confirmed townies and needs to instill doubt about their alignment.

[Toaster Strudel]

Here's a question for Raging Rabbit -or- his lover.

NO ONE ELSE ANSWER!!!

We've already killed werewolves. Today, should we go after werewolves or mafia?

[Toaster Strudel]

TS- check lover thread.

That was the sweetest thing... chocolates! Thanks.

[Toaster Strudel]

This wagon sucks. Building a wagon on an act of distancing is completely stupid.

I beg to differ; distancing is the largest scumtell there is.

But I appreciate that you acknowledge it was distancing, rather than a townie going after a scumbag.

Is it me, or did you just confess scum?

[Toaster Strudel]

I don't like how Adel said this

The faster you are the more honest and townie you will appear.

Why include that?

Trust me there's a plan.

[Toaster Strudel]

We never discussed which faction we should go after in our DT, I didn't reread his game posts and don't reacall him saying that. No, I don't quite see what you're getting at here.

Really.

[Toaster Strudel]

Vote Firestarter

, I think you're slightly more likely to use dice for the first time as scum.

This was your first post in the game. And Firestarter was scum. You're scum too, it's a rookie mistake I know, but I caught it. Bus'ing right out of the garage. That irrepressible instinct that scum has to immediately distance.

I think you're a werewolf.

[Toaster Strudel]

Selected Day1 votecounts

Votecount

Erratus Apathos (1) -

Firestarter

farside22 (3) - icemanE, charter, cerebus3

Firestarter (2)

- Adel,

Raging Rabbit

Harvey Pew (1) - DarlaBlueEyes
Crazy (1) - WaltWishbone
somestrangeflea (1) - OpposedForce

Raging Rabbit (2)

- SleepyPanda, dybeck
IcemanE (1) - Erratus Apathos
Cephrir (1) - somestrangeflea

Look: RagingRabbit unvotes one buddy, and votes another:

Votecount

Erratus Apathos (1) -

Firestarter

farside22 (2) - charter, neko2086
Crazy (1) - icemanE
Raging Rabbit (1) - dybeck

IcemanE (4)

- OpposedForce, Crazy, farside22,

Raging Rabbit

DarlaBlueEyes (1) - somestrangeflea
sekinj (1) - Alabaska J
Raffles (1) - DarlaBlueEyes
OpposedForce (2) - Adel, SleepyPanda
Alabaska J (2) - ThAdmiral, Erratus Apathos

Then won't join the Crazy wagon, but then again, his alleged buddy IcemanE is already leading it, so that's a little risky:
Erratus Apathos (1) -

Firestarter

Crazy (9) -

icemanE

, cerebus3, OpposedForce, charter, Adel, Cephrir, Erratus Apathos, sekinj, pwnz
Raging Rabbit (1) - dybeck

IcemanE (2)

-

Raging Rabbit

, farside22
sekinj (1) - Alabaska J
Raffles (1) - DarlaBlueEyes
OpposedForce (1) - SleepyPanda
Alabaska J (1) - ThAdmiral
pwnz (1) - neko2086

Meanwhile RR's lover WWB stays safe and votes as little as possible.

RR's vote stays on Firestarter as long as possible; when it looks like IcemanE is as dead as a doornail, RR adds vote #11, when 13 are needed to lynch.

Crazy (3) -

icemanE

, DarlaBlueEyes, Harvey Pew
charter (1) - farside22

Firestarter (3)

- neko2086, cerebus3, SleepyPanda
somestrangeflea (1) - dybeck

*IcemanE (11)

- Cephrir, Erratus Apathos, Alabaska J, Adel, WaltWishbone, somestrangeflea, sekinj, Crazy, ThAdmiral, charter,

Raging Rabbit

Errathus Apathos and SSF are also suspects for being wolves, but RagingRabbit stands out more.

[Toaster Strudel]

Here's a question for Raging Rabbit -or- his lover.

NO ONE ELSE ANSWER!!!

We've already killed werewolves. Today, should we go after werewolves or mafia?

Had you bothered to read the thread, you would know the answer to this already. I am not going to encourage your sloth, if you want to know then read the thread. I am going to read this little wank of your Toster again and respond, however lynching to lynch is extremely scummy. We can catch the second set of werewolves without Adels help, who is more than likely mafia.

fos : Adel

YOU should read the thread. RagingRabbit has already answered the question. I am not going to encourage your sloth.

This is bizarre beyond words: "however lynching to lynch is extremely scummy" Er - I always lynch "to lynch" I don't pussyfoot around!

[Toaster Strudel]

Thats no longer the point, the question should have never been asked by YOU, because it was already answered. You just want someone hung, you dont give a fuck who it is or you would pay more attention.

Unfortunately, when you neglected to notice that RR had already answered my question, you lost the ability to effectively make a case with that argument. You just want anyone that accuses your duo to be hung.

And now you're working to find

post hoc

evidence. That does NOT look good for you.

[Toaster Strudel]

Come on guys, let's get our act together and lynch some wolves. One less nightkill if we're correct.

[Toaster Strudel]

TS doesn't realize that this is a nightless game...

Oh yeah... but we can still lynch wolves, no?

[Toaster Strudel]

I took a look at Harvey Pew, and I noticed that he bus'ed Firestarter, which was safe to do since IcemanE was under serious attack.

Perhaps HarveyPew is a wolf. Let me check his lover's record.

[Toaster Strudel]

cerebus seems rather townie. He did got after FireStarter like HarveyPew. It's not surprising since they're lovers.

HP: who do YOU suspect most at the moment? Can you present a case against this player? Your thoughts might help us (or not) tomorrow - after we know of your alignment.

[Toaster Strudel]

We already lynched some wolves, so more wolves should be relatively easy to find. Maybe you can concentrate on trying to find the wolves' surviving buddies.

[Toaster Strudel]

Shhhhhhhh be vewy vewy quiet I'm hunting wabbits heheheheheheh

[Toaster Strudel]

Still waiting on a response from HarveyPew.

[Toaster Strudel]

I'd still lynch Crazy. Also could you explain: "We already lynched some wolves, so more wolves should be relatively easy to find." Now they only have to defend their lover not another pair - less easy to discern surely?

Perhaps less easy to discern now, but surely hints have been dropped while both pairs were still alive.

You may die today. Please please please make a big effort. You say you'd lynch Crazy, but that's hardly a CASE. Who do you think is wolf, who do you think is mafia, and why.

[Toaster Strudel]

...she DIDNT read or she would have known I wanted to hang werewolves...

So according to you, who are the wolves and why?

[Toaster Strudel]

I'm beginning to think that Harvey is scum that's given up.

[Toaster Strudel]

K.

unvote, vote: BM

[Toaster Strudel]

Obviously ThAdmiral is not as familiar with the scum's propensity for Day 1 bus'ing the way I am.

But I don't think he's wolf. Maybe mafia looking for wolves. Or maybe town looking for scum.

I can't say I'm into that wagon.

[Toaster Strudel]

I think there are much better wagons to explore. That RR wagon shouldn't have died yesterday, for one.

Why are you disappointed? It's not like you voted, or supported the wagon.

[Toaster Strudel]

Darox, who do you think is wolf, and who do you think is mafia?

Please answer, and after that we'll lynch you.

That's what she said.

[Toaster Strudel]

I don't think charter is scum.

[Toaster Strudel]

To wit; he's saying the kinda thing townies say.

[Toaster Strudel]

RR, you're scum, so your opinion bears little weight.

As for the daytalk, geez, it feels suspiciously like homework, and I'm too old for homework.

[Toaster Strudel]

We have a lot of daytalk, so it's a big job. But I'm doing it.

[Toaster Strudel]

I refuse to vote for charter. I view with suspicion everyone on charter's wagon.

[Toaster Strudel]

Well I'm too lazy to paragraph and format it.

Toaster Strudel

Finally I have a bite... DAROX!!! Check it out.

Toaster Strudel

OK, he got my vote! I do hope he's scum... After today's lynch, I should explain what I was trying to stir up with the "go after wolves"business.

adel da witch

th problem with BM is that hhe is an angr little man with endless hours he can spend at the key board, and we have just about no credibility left with the town.... HOW are we going to get bm lynched tomorrow?

Toaster Strudel

I agree this is BM's scum meta.. Let's go after him tomorrow.

adel

have you read the game yet? all of it? I think BM is scum.
there is a chance that rr/wwb are actually mafia....

Toaster Strudel

NOBODY is biting for the wolf hunt. NOBODY. Some mafia players are exercising PHENOMENAL restraint. Who are they???

beautiful adel

re HP, I'm not sure. I haven't taken a close look at it.

Toaster Strudel

I'm trying to see who'll get excited about lynching wolves. The mafia isn't biting. So I'm going to venture a guess that the mafia is made up of pretty sly experienced players. armlx? neko? BM?
I'm not seeing the case against Harvey Pew. Is it worthwhile?

adel da witch

"Hmmm, I expected mafia to jump on my "look, some wolves!" ploy but instead WWB & RR are into crazed "agack! OMGUS!" mode."
I'm not sure they are innocent. We may have just activated their townie-tunnel-vision.

adel da witch

"Come on guys, let's get our act together and lynch some wolves. One less nightkill if we're correct."
what was that about?

Toaster Strudel

Hmmm, I expected mafia to jump on my "look, some wolves!" ploy but instead WWB & RR are into crazed "agack! OMGUS!" mode.

Toaster Strudel

WWB is RR's lover... check out his nervous, out of this world response:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 67#1252067

Toaster Strudel

Good job on post 1378
I don't think Crazy was bus'ing. She didn't zero in on Iceman, she progressively made a cogent case.

adel da witch

I'm not sure where to go with RR from here... any ideas?

adel da witch

just to be clear, I want you to challenge my assumption in this thread, not in the game thread. I think it is best if we present a untied front in the game, and try to speak with one voice.
Remember in spacemonkey mafia when Shy Guy and I pretended to be full of conflict? I think that could be another scumtell that is valid in this game that is not commonly valid: lovers pretending not to agree or be able to communicate well.
I think most players try to post evenly across games. I think a scumtell might be a player who posts evenly across the rest of her games, but is lurking in this game. The real test would be to ask a lurker how many posts she has made in her lover's thread, and if that number doesn't fill in the gaps and is a low number, then she is probably scum.

adel da witch

actually I want you to challenge that assumption. Re-read day 1, up until icemanE claims lovers with orange penguin, and see if it is a safe assumption to make.
I have a scumtell I've been sitting on: because of the lovers thing and the daytalking thing replacements are more likely than usual to be scum.
farside22 has only been on the site for like 8 months, and she has 4,500 game posts. She was Crazy's lover, and she claimed that she couldn't keep up with this game right after I caught her as scum in another game. SSF replaced out, and BM replaced him, and then EA (BM's lover) replaced out. I think being a lover with crazy is hella frustrating. I think Crazy/KoC + BM/EA could be the mafia team.
Toaster Strudel
Oh, OK, they're town. Alright. I will work with this assumption too.
Toaster Strudel
Ooops... I didn't know.
Why are you making this assumption? I would believe it for Crazy.
adel da witch
I mean, that they are confirmed town.
this is based off off crazy's "scumtell" during day 1, and the mistake that he made wasn't one that scum would make.
adel da witch
i've been working under the assumption that Knight of Cydonia and Crazy are confirmed scum. can you see it?
adel da witch
THERE IS NO NKs IN THIS SETUP!
Toaster Strudel
I'm asking RR if we should go after mafia or wolves.
Maybe I can catch him.
A townie would want to go after werewolves because there would be one fewer nightkill tonight. A mafiate would make a very strong case for that, stronger than a townie.
A werewolf would argue more strongly to go after mafia.
Adel
'k, present a case, with evidence, and place a vote. I'll agree with you and follow your vote with mine.
Toaster Strudel
OK. Let's squeeze them. The more likely outcome is that the mafia will jump on the opportunity of lynching suspected wolves.
Adel
I don't have a clue as to if they are wolves or not. I will gladly help you pressure them though.
Toaster Strudel
Can you try to pressure the RR & WWB duo with me? What do you think of them as possible wolves?
Adel
right on. The way I nailed IcemanE on day 1, the remaining wolves must be paranoid.
Toaster Strudel
I'm not certain, but I think I caught RRabbit into suggesting that I am in an opposing scum team. Since I'm barking against werewolves, it looks like he thinks I might be pursuing werewolves because I am mafia. In a twisted kinda gut logic, I think it's because he might actually be a werewolf.

His instinct is shouting: "OMG - she's onto us, she must be mafia!!!"
Toaster Strudel
I'm picking on RR & WWB.
I have not clue whether they're wolves. I want to see who is going to support my bogus argument, then turn against them.
TS
NOTE
-Crazy & Knight of Cydonia (farside22)
-wolf & OF
-RR & WWB
-Cephrir & charter
-neko & sekinj
-Erratus Apathos & SSF
-ThAdmiral & DBE
-Alabaska & kloud (dybeck)
-Panda & armlx (pacman)
-Harvey & cerebus
adel da witch
sounds superbly delicious. We shall dine on werewolf tonight!
... and Italian tomorrow!
Toaster Strudel
We found some werewolves, but no mafia.
Let's make a case for werewolf buddies.
And see who follows us too eagerly. They could be mafia...
Toaster Strudel
Good morning sweet stuff.
Cryptic and erratic is my specialty.
Game on!
Adel
Also, remember to subscripe to this QT thread. It can be easy to forget to check it.
what differences are there between Toaster Strudel and your alt I am more familiar with?
Adel
hey toastie! thanks for being my lover. I'm really looking forward to working with you in this game.
I pretty much sngle-handedly outed IcemanE as scum on day 1, and since then I've played erratically to keep townie sheep from following me.
I've basically been followin Sleepy Panda's vote aroung since he has a prety good handel on the game and strikes me as being hella townie.
Since the scum do not have a NK, and we are both hard to lynch, I figure we have four or five days to scumhunt in this thread and just collect information from the game thread.
I think this could be a brilliant chance for really complate scumhunting. Since we have different techniques, we can lay everything out here, and make comparisons, and debate what is or isn't a scumtell, and not have to worry about each other's alignment.
The scum can daytalk, so I think it is to our advantage to remain cryptic and erratic until we have a solid case.
Within a few days I wil start posting the data I've collected so far. With 50 pages and 24 initial players, we have quite a large data set to deal with.
destructor
Toaster Strudel replaces pwnz. Thanks!
Adel
it looks like the deadline has passed, so nevermind.

Adel

hey, I need you to move your vote to kloud. otherwise the cerebus3 will probably go through at deadline.
pwnz
I will work on those lists for you tonight.
beautiful adel
the lime light being on you is not a bad thing. We can't be afraid of being lynched. I think the scum are scared of me, and will try to make an effort to lynch us. With armix being a probable exception, all of those players that have attacked you are me should probably be held under closer scrutiny.
Any player that was part of the iceman lynch AND has attacked us in two or more posts should probably be placed on a list posted here. Then we can work through it.
Actually, now that I think about it, we should probably do all of our scum hunting here. If there is a case that makes good sense to you, you should be the one to post it in the game thread.
Can you make some lists for us, and post them here?
The first list should be the people who attacked iceman but were not part of the wagon that lynched him.
The second list should be the people who were part of the wagon that lynched iceman.
The third list should be all of the people who have voted for you or me since the end of the "random voting" stage, post 60 or so.
The forth list should be all of the people who have attacked you or me, but have not voted for us.
If you generate the four lists, and we draw lines connecting all of the people who have claimed to be lover together, we should end with a shorter suspect list, probably six couples or so.
pwnz
Focus has shifted off of me quite a bit since kloud's post. I wonder, should I even bother to address it yet or wait until someone asks again? I don't really care for the limelight.
pwnz
Well I wasn't really aware, but if I am being useless you can just slap me back into shape. Or spank me. Either one would work just fine I'm sure.
pwnz
I will subscribe right now.
I'm not too worried about the votes on us, but now thanks to kloud I have to fish through that ungodly long post and prove to him that he is an idiot. Crazy is still one of the most flip-floppy and suspicious players in my opinion.
How do you think I should spin my argument against kloud? Just defend or go on the offensive?
Adel
Have you subscribed to this thread yet? If you do you will get an email reminder whenever I post in the thread. Being able to coordinate action could become really important later in the game.
Adel
don't sweat the votes on us. They will not stick.
Crazy or cerebus3 should be the lynch for today.
SleepyPanda is town with really astute posts.
PWNZ
OF COURSE
Adel
are you still following this thread?
Adel
perfect excuse to jump off of the crazy wagon!
I don't remember. they were quite a few pages back. you probably don't have to worry about them.
I'm not totally sold on the firestarter wagon. I think I'm going to flip between tossign fuel on the icemanE wagon and fuel on the Firestarter wagon.
take a look at cerebus3. he posted "I see where IcemanE is coming from. I mean, what started the firestarter wagon? "
when his last post that was:

unvote; vote: firestarter

First, I don't see how RR has done much different than I've done, or others. Clearly, Crazy has acted scummy. Logically, however, it doesn't add up for Crazy to be scum, all things considered (see my last posts for reasons). So why, then, would it be scummy to acknowledge somebody's scumminess but not vote them because the argument for them being town is much stronger? (whew)

Additionally, you're attacking RR for defending somebody who you believe is town when, looking at the votecount, it clearly wasn't popular to do so.

And, the quoting of Adel's call for other bandwagons while saying you're not trying to make a case... I'm also wondering what the point of your vote is, as you're sending very mixed messages.

I think me and neko are on the same wavelength. I was gonna say that!

unvote, vote: firestarter

Continuing to push a wagon when the wagon is proven false is pretty weird."

how can he not see where the wagon came from?
looking back through his other posts, he seems rather scummy to me.
pwnz
I'm really sorta inactive over the weekends, sorry.
I bailed off of the crazy wagon after ThAdmiral voted him, which I think was a safe and easy way for me to jump off. I think that for the moment I will stay off of the new wagon on Firestarter, but based off of your logic in the game posting thread we should at least get a lot of good discussion on him.
What questions did I miss?
Adel
you missed a coulple of questions that other asked of you.
This might be a good time to bail off of the Crazy wagon.
What players do you have suspicions of right now?
Have you subscribed to this thread yet? If you do you will get an email reminder whenever I post in the thread. Being able to coordinate action could become really important later in the game.
Adel
best case, it would only out one set of mafia lovers, but I think it is worth delaying over.
~~ I tink the best thing you can do is ask questions of player who are keeping a low profile. Try to post "active" posts: posts that require more than a simple answer from another player.
It is important for the town to have as many strong wagons as possible. With 13 needed to lynch, 9+ votes are needed for a wagon to be considered "strong". It doesn't look like we will have a strong wagon before the lynch goes down, unles stuff changes.
regarding the crazy wagon, I think he is basically confirmed town. I think there is a could of scum on his wagon. I want one of the scum on his wagon to try to keep it going. Asking question of one of those player could help.
pwnz
So you're planning to observe those who stick by their lovers and, by process of elimination, find the odd men out? Thats a great plan! Anything inconspicuous I could do to help the plan work? Ir should I just not do anything stupid in general.
Adel
the tell would be scum distancing themselves from the person they are lovers with.
in order for it to work we would have to go three+ days without a massclaim.
I don't think there would be any real benifit from massclaiming day 1, day 2 or day 3 unless there was a serious and coordinated effort to lynch lurkers.
pwnz
Alright, I'm curious. What is this ultimate scum "tell" you are talking about?
pwnz
Do you think that the town can gain anything off of a day one massclaim?

pwnz

Only strong thought for you right off the bat is that I hope you don't die because then I die as well!

Adel

'sup lover. Any thoughts about the game before we begin?
I feel the best chance the town has to win if for each day to have as many strong wagons as possible.

destructor

Use this forum to daytalk. Keeping all daytalking in this thread will make things easier for any replacements as well.

[Toaster Strudel]

You were pressuring me. I told you we had a lot of stuff. I don't have a million years of free time to paraphrase.

As for the times, get lost. As it is, it took me 45 minutes to process it into an Excel worksheet, and thinking I didn't need it after posting, I didn't save it. I'm not doing that again. Especially since I'm going to be modkilled now, you'll soon find out we were town, so times are irrelevent.

BTW: Crazy is scum for drawing attention and getting me modkilled.