Mafia 85 - Murder at the Bus Stop (game over)
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
OK Computer. Karma Police. Arrest this man.Alabaska J wrote:
What? If it's from Pablo Honey then it doesn't count IMO.Surye wrote:*not surprised Ala missed the Radiohead reference *
Anyways, about lurkers. True it is going to be tight, but if we keep on the mod about prods, we can try to keep the game moving. Lynching lurkers is a dangerous game.-
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
I don't see it as scummy or contradictory. Pressure is != lynch, just like wagon != lynch. If you're lurking, sometimes your name coming a lot is enough. A wagon will often get them posting. This is a good approach. Do we drop the hammer though? No, not on policy. If they get to L-2 and they still aren't posting, they should be replaced, not lynched. Especially if you prescribe to the Bored Vanilla Townie Theory.BlakAdder wrote:Okay, I'm here. I've reread already.
Regarding the lurker issue, lynching lurkers is okay, depending on the circumstance. Most of the time, I'm good with it.
In other news,vote: Cream147. She seems to be trying to get the town to lynch lurkers, but she doesn't want to go against the town's wishes so she invents the "I don't want them lynched, I want them pressured" excuse.
Cream is being perfectly reasonable. You're being one-dimensional.-
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
Like I said, votes are more often then not enough. If they are lurking, and are not responsive to votes, they might be VL/A without notice. However. If we see them playing elsewhere, and they have a wagon on them, and they are not posting, then I'd say I'm okay with it. But that doesn't change the fact that pressure is not the same thing as a lynch.-
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
Pretending to play early is MUCH worse then making theory discussion in early game.Sir Tornado wrote:
This is ironic, considering only I and Armlx seem to be actually playing this game. The rest of you seem to think (before this page) discussing lurkers belongs to mafia games. Try the "mafia discussion" forum.Surye wrote: I'm starting to side with the SirT votes. And this really did it for me. Pretending to play is unacceptable. Vote: Sir Tornado-
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
Basically I'd see this particular pattern as a nulltell when meta supports it. Unless it's a REALLY bad pattern, it's not worth droning on when it's easily provable it's a null tell based on meta. And while his behavior was worth discussing, I don't think it's going to amount to much more.Moratorium wrote:
So...Sir Tornado wrote: And, here's for those who think my approach to game is strange and scummy:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5704
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6236
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7702 (I replaced out out this, but this is how I played in the first few pages)
Check my alignment in all three of those games.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6382
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6561
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5565
Where are we going with this? Are you basically stating that we must ignore your playstyle because of your history? I just pulled three other games where you are Mafia/SK, doesn't look like you played much different (miles and miles of quoting), would it not make sense to evaluate a player's scummy'ness based on this thread, and treat your history (cherrypicked or otherwise) as a wash?-
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
Votes often lack an explaination to get and analize a reaction. More risky to the voter, because of the things you're saying, but can be quite useful.BlakAdder wrote:
Explaining your vote is common practice, unless you're scum looking to get a quick mislynch. Simply saying "just go back and look" isn't good enough. What do you find scummy about me?Shanba wrote:
No.BlakAdder wrote:@Tornado: Yes, I get it, which I quite clearly stated, but you're missing the point. Just answer instead of trying to disguise your answer in quotes.
@Shanba: Care to explain your vote?
Why should I explain it?-
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
When did she say that? She thought he was being sarcastic, I thought he was pretending to play. No where did she mention that I was bandwagoning. Nice try though.Megatheory wrote:I agree with farside that Surye's vote on Sir T was bandwagoning.Vote Surye
Can I say that about his other posts? Uhh.. no? Which is why I not only unvoted him, but also defended him? Are you even paying attention to this game?Megatheory wrote:So you're looking at that one post and concluding that Sir T is "pretending to play." Can you really say that about his other posts? I think he's one of the better contributors so far, even if I don't agree with him.
You're acting like I'm still voting him. Your post is full of silly.-
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
I'd actually like to reiterate the real problem with Megatheory's post.
He opens with an old post that has been discussed and explained (for the most part, I can explain why I thought he was pretending to play if you want, but lets just move on for a moment). He connects me strongly in many places to voting for Sir T.
He proceeds to be baffled as to why people are voting Sir T, and say the case is over his play style (pay attention to this, it's important). He then again comes back to me, repeats his earlier statement, connection it to his most recent post then votes me.
His issue is that the votes on Sir T are for a play style that I unvoted him on, and defended him on. He's twisting the situation against me for an easy vote. And it's quite sad how transparent and useless it is.-
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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- Location: San Diego, CA
Thanks Mana, guess I am guilty of not paying as close attention myself, I missed the end of that post ^^;
Anyways, my point on MT's post stands 100% still.
Mod edit
Votecount:
Surye (3): Demon Pineapple, farside22, Megatheory
BlakAdder (3): Shanba, Alabaska J, Sir Tornado
Sir Tornado (2): Moratorium, BlakAdder
Empking (1): RestFermata
Wall-E (1): Mana_Ku
Cream147 (1): Empking
Slicey (1): Wall-E
farside22 (1): martin413
RestFermata (1): Riceballtail
armlx (1): Xtoxm
Xtoxm (1): fouxdufafa
Megatheory (1): armlx
Not voting (8): al4xz, Azuma, Cream147, Jebus, Slepz, DynamoXI, Surye, Slicey-
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
You're clouding the issue. You're isolating my unvote post, and not looking at my discussion of how his meta makes the playstyle a null tell. When I voted, these things had not come into light. I may have been vague in my unvote post (I don't think so), but I continued to explain why Sir T didn't deserve a vote for several other posts.farside22 wrote:
I think he is being vague. I don't like vague.Alabaska J wrote:
He unvoted for the reasons he posted when he unvoted*farside22 wrote:The problem is you voted for him based on his play style and unvoted him because why exactly?-
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
I didn't say that's the only way to play, nor did I say that's all someone should do. But it is a valid tactic. People do react to votes. Alot.farside22 wrote:
I saw where you pointed out the links that were being brought up and stated that it is a null tell. Also I disagree with what you said here:Surye wrote:
You're clouding the issue. You're isolating my unvote post, and not looking at my discussion of how his meta makes the playstyle a null tell. When I voted, these things had not come into light. I may have been vague in my unvote post (I don't think so), but I continued to explain why Sir T didn't deserve a vote for several other posts.farside22 wrote:
I think he is being vague. I don't like vague.Alabaska J wrote:
He unvoted for the reasons he posted when he unvoted*farside22 wrote:The problem is you voted for him based on his play style and unvoted him because why exactly?
People don't react to votes. They react to what the vote represents and what is said in that vote. It's easy for anyone to just vote then what kind of game would we have if people just voted and did nothing else?Votes often lack an explaination to get and analize a reaction. More risky to the voter, because of the things you're saying, but can be quite useful.-
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
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- Location: San Diego, CA
Some of my best work as scum involved a PBPA (see Dynomite Mafia)farside22 wrote:
Just to make a point on PBP. I know players who are scum that have done a PBP in the past just to look more town. I know scum and town who are able to do it with analysis, however scum have a trickier time with this. Doing a PBP is just a way of saying hey look I'm contributing I'm not scum while really not scum hunting.Moratorium wrote:
You weren't, my mistake, I'll probably get a lot of this type of complaint for trying to get this done too quickly.Would you mind showing (by way of quotes) that I was a gainst voting for pressure.
Thinking this over, having a player who is willing to put all this crap together probably did nothing but make me a big NK target for wanting to emphasize people's trends.-
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
Really? You only get one shot? I'll keep that in mind. Discussions are not necessary, since you only get one post.MT wrote: Your thoughs about Sir T's meta didn't come until after you had unvoted so you can't really use that as an explanation for why you unvoted.
The rest of your post hinges on that, so I don't have a response to such nonsense. His meta game supports his non-play.
Since you all are harping on the pretending to play, I assure you that you're all getting tunnel vision no this fact. Look at the post I quoted in the vote. It's pretending to play, 100%. It's participating because he's told to. Now, how much did I invest in this? Did I lead the charge to have him lynched? No. Did I then proceed to follow the discussion on why he would do that, then weigh in, and unvote? Yes.
You're being so ridiculous.
mod: quotes fixed-
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
Random unvotes are as random as random votes. Silly reasons abound.Wall-E wrote:Slicey wrote:Vote: armlxbecause I have no idea how to pronounce your name.
This. Why unvote a random vote just because your random reason was incorrect? It seems like you had another motive there.Slicey wrote:Oh, I thought it was an L. >_>
Unvote
What did you think his motive is? So when armlx flips scum, Slicey can say "See! I voted armlx once!"? Are you kidding me?-
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Surye Mafia Scum
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Sorry, I thought that my unvote was proof enough I thought my vote was weak. My unvote by definition was backing down. Your logic is flawed.Sir Tornado wrote:
I can pretend to play in one post all I want, but it is irrelevant as far as I am actually playing in other posts. Now, the thing is, I think you know your vote on me for the reasons you are giving in that post was very weak, and yet instead of agreeing that it was weak and just leaving it there and moving on, you continue to try to defend it. I see this as a scum-tell. The scum are, in general reluctant to back down and agree that they were wrong most of the trivial incidents, like that vote, something which you are doing at the moment.Surye wrote:Since you all are harping on the pretending to play, I assure you that you're all getting tunnel vision no this fact. Look at the post I quoted in the vote. It's pretending to play, 100%. It's participating because he's told to. Now, how much did I invest in this? Did I lead the charge to have him lynched? No. Did I then proceed to follow the discussion on why he would do that, then weigh in, and unvote? Yes.
You're being so ridiculous.-
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Surye Mafia Scum
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Vote: Slicey
You're just attacking a random target, almost doing the same thing you claimed of him. Need proof? Look at Emp's posts in isolation and show me ONE place he's pushing for a lynch.
If you voted without a case, that would be one thing, but you had specific behaviors you voted for which are not even CLOSE to reality.-
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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- Joined: December 23, 2007
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L-1 ... this is usually where we would call for a claim... but we got Vanilla... so... any last words Slicey? You've seem to make no attempt to defend yourself AT ALL. You've not answered to a single thing I or anyone has posted, and you have had the opportunity since you posted your claim and your "I'm doomed! LOL!" post.
I agree with Ala here, he is trying to pull off nonchalant, and that's so noobscum it hurts.-
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
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- Location: San Diego, CA
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
Meh, I am voting him, I am just as responsible for the lynch as you or anyone else. I am voting him, and at this late in the wagon, there is no question that I support his lynch. Me saying that added nothing.armlx wrote:
Surye fails for saying things that imply you are extremely accepting and therefore absolving of responsibility of a hammer.I'll buy his drink.
A hammer is not that special, it's just a vote like mine or yours. Also, fos on you for trying to absolve your own part in the lynch, and creating a false sense of responsibility for whoever decides to do what every person voting has decided should happen.-
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
If you don't think it's the time, ask questions, make points, just letting the thread sit here won't convince you. What do you need?RestFermata wrote:And speaking of being "all talk", before someone accuses me of being "all talk" for not voting for Demon Pineapple, I don't want to deflect attention away from Slicey, whom I do indeed view as scummy, though I also see it as too early to hammer. So I'm going to withhold for now.-
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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Good call, now we have something to work with.RestFermata wrote:I am pretty convinced that Slicey is scum, but I really just don't want the day to end until I hear from the people who haven't contributed AYTHING, Surye. These people would be:
Azuma (1 post)
martin413 (2 posts)
killa seven (2 posts, but he's having internet problems to be fair)
ace1217 (0 posts)
I feel that there is still more to learn from this day, and these 4 people can help.Mod: Can we get some prods?-
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
Wall-E wrote:Our options:
A) Hammer Slicey
B) Wait for Slicey to return and defend himself
C) Pick a new lynch target
I'm leaning toward B.
Before the hammer, I'd like a response to my post (499).
What huge holes?
What fallacious assumptions?
This mostly. It's saying he had a reasonable reason to vote, but ignored the fact that the reason was false in this situation. Then you were apologetic for him. The whole thing just rubbed me the wrong way, but I figured it's because you were approching it from a Devil's Advocate perspective.Wall-E wrote:Post 14: Votes for Empking under duress. Only reason given was in his sixth post where he said Empking was "pushing for a lynch." I think this is an acceptable reason for a vote, and again his lack of confidence has forced him to adapt to the mafiascum.net playing style against his will, making him look bad to us and us look pushy and mean to him.-
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Surye Mafia Scum
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If it was faulty logic, why didn't he even attempt to correct it when confronted with it multiple times?Wall-E wrote:I was approaching it not having actually looked (recently) at the post he referenced. Had he been pushing for a lynch, I would not call voting for him scummy. It turns out, actually, he was pushing for votes, which given Slicey's misuse of the term "case" might be another vocabulary-related error, and might just be silly logic or grasping. I'm done defending him, so I'm going to say what I really think: It was probably unintentionally faulty logic, but since he was ambiguous, I have to interpret it in the worst possible light for the sake of the town and maintain my vote.
So.-
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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Surye Mafia Scum
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I'd love to hear some reasons for the FoS' and vote.Xtoxm wrote:Sorry for abscence. Quite busy atm. I'll try to get back to daily posting now that i've got access, and a standard timetable.
Without much looking through the thread:
Fos Jebus
Fos Armlx
Vote Shanba
I'll try to read the thread and give some opinions at some point.-
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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- Posts: 2330
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- Location: San Diego, CA
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
Did it really look like I was trying to avoid looking like I was all for the wagon? I still stand by that lynch, it was the right move with the information at the time. Your suspicion amounts to "He discussed things without voting".Wall-E wrote:To clarify that: Surye seemed to be adding early-wagon fuel to the fire without voting, like he was waiting to see if Slicey got more negative attention.
Jebus unvoted.
Those are my reasons for suspecting them.-
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Surye Mafia Scum
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Because I have yet to have time to do a full end of day analysis, so I just put out what was on my mind.springlullaby wrote:Vote:Surye
Because he seems very eager to post, jumping up and down, but at the same time not saying much. I also don't like that 'people who jumped ship' comment. If you have suspicions, when don't you just state them clearly.-
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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- Posts: 2330
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- Location: San Diego, CA
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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- Location: San Diego, CA
I would just like to point out Wall-E that you put negative attention on me last page, without voting, then when another person voted me, you voted me. Does this make you scum, as you think it made me scum? Because you discussed your ideas, then came to a conclusion of a vote?
Mod edit
Votecount:
Jebus (2): farside22, Shanba
Surye (2): springlullaby, Wall-E
Riceballtail (1): Xtoxm
Cream147 (1): armlx
Xtoxm (1): Empking
Not voting (15): Megatheory, al4xz, Azuma, RestFermata, Gremwell, Surye, Alabaska J, BlakAdder, Cream147, Jebus, Riceballtail, Slepz, Muerrto, killa seven, Zazier
With 22 alive it's 12 to lynch.-
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
Actually... this is more interesting on review. Look at my posts in isolation. Look at the first page. Ctrl-F for Slicey.
First mention of Slicey: I was attacking Wall-E's pathetic line of reasoning (not to be confused with defending Slicey).
Second mention of Slicey: I VOTED SLICEY, WITH EXACTLY WHY I THOUGHT HE WAS SCUM.
Wall-E. You flat out lied. What is your defense?Wall-E wrote:To clarify that: Surye seemed to be adding early-wagon fuel to the fire without voting, like he was waiting to see if Slicey got more negative attention.
Jebus unvoted.
Those are my reasons for suspecting them.-
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Surye Mafia Scum
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- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
I never "adding early-wagon fuel to the fire without voting". Not even close.Wall-E wrote:
If I lied it was on accident. Can you clarify what was the lie?Surye wrote:Actually... this is more interesting on review. Look at my posts in isolation. Look at the first page. Ctrl-F for Slicey.
First mention of Slicey: I was attacking Wall-E's pathetic line of reasoning (not to be confused with defending Slicey).
Second mention of Slicey: I VOTED SLICEY, WITH EXACTLY WHY I THOUGHT HE WAS SCUM.
Wall-E. You flat out lied. What is your defense?Wall-E wrote:To clarify that: Surye seemed to be adding early-wagon fuel to the fire without voting, like he was waiting to see if Slicey got more negative attention.
Jebus unvoted.
Those are my reasons for suspecting them.-
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Surye Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: December 23, 2007
- Location: San Diego, CA
springlullaby wrote:No one else interested in Surye? What about this post from him just before night?
Surye wrote:There are suspicious things going on. I'm not moving my vote, but this will all come up tomorrow, that's for sure.Surye wrote:
That, or someone who jumped ship last minute. Both are good sources for the next vote.Xtoxm wrote:I think we should lynch someone who voted Slicey today.
Not sure where to place my vote yet. Still need to read up, I guess. I'll think about it.