Open 80 - Double Day Mafia (Game Over!)

[armlx]

Because I'm under pressure. My vote would be simply diverting attention

Or it could me making a relevant point.... the fact you are worried about this is scummy.

Tell me where I said I would change my meta in this game?

It was discussed around when you started voting, and you never disagreed.

[armlx]

Yeah, thats about what I thought. Appeal to emotion up the wazoo (the townie part, not the leaving part), OMGUS, etc.

[armlx]

How is my letting town know who to look at after Im lynched, OMGUS???
I mean, for it to be OMGUS, I'd have to flip town first, right??

No, its you trying to look town pre-lynch to convince people to swap to an alternative wagon. Happens a LOT.

[armlx]

I endorse the above post.

[armlx]

Yes. I'm sick of long days in this game, and even if all the nonvoters placed a vote now, no one person would get enough to be lynched. We're going to spend our time arguing over who should switch to who, so let's do it after everyone has their votes down.

This, and the fact everyone in previous day's has been fairly waffly and non-committal, bar a few people. Solid opinions before a deadline helps us.

No.

And this time I'll be generous and explain why.

Vote on Manito = Trivial. He's not here
Vote on Orange Penguin = Nobody will care. He's lurking in plain sight

Technically, right now a vote on anyone but Me / FS is a wasted vote since it will get nowhere. And I'm not voting for either

Votes aren't pointless. Make one. Or die. I'm personally leaning the second on you regardless.

[armlx]

Then what's the point again?

Getting you to commit your vote to somewhere rather then sit around.

[armlx]

I don't see what a PBPA on K7 is supposed to prove, but I'm still willing to look at it.

[armlx]

More FS wagon would be nice.

[armlx]

Llama, KoC is a fair direction as well. Do you find FS scummy?

[armlx]

I'm posting this in all my games. My computer power cord just broke again, same issue as last time. I'm going to be on LA for a week or two while I wait for a new one to arrive.

[armlx]

SC, more voting plz.

[armlx]

I really dont see what a PBPA of K7 will accomplish or why it is necessarily going to play a factor in your decision of who you will be voting for.

This. A vote track would be good though.

The 2 posts are lazy, generic of a situation, and an awful attempt to brush off a very valid point I made...

Which valid point? The 100% OMGUS one? The appeal to emotion? What I said is definitely a valid analysis of your post.

[armlx]

BTW, what reasons do you have for voting me anyway, I'd like a recap from those who have done...

Remember that huge PBPA I did you you? That.

KoC's responses to this haven't been stellar though. If FS = town, he's a very good lynch.

[armlx]

Also I think a KoC lynch is more likely to happen then an FS lynch

Really? I'm interested here.

[armlx]

If KoC is town, would you be willing to vote FS?

[armlx]

I just am having a hard time shaking a meta read of him.

Mind elaborating here?

[armlx]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... f6479d67e2

What about this game, FS as scum.

[armlx]

Llama, I just linked to a FS scum game.

That said, I see your point.

Unvote

, thinking is going to be done.

[armlx]

I ment one he played from start to finish without replacing in or out, that one he lurked for most of the game that he was actually around for.

You make a point.

[armlx]

Im looking at armlx, Koc, or SG as a possible partner or 2... depending on how many scum we have left.

Huh?

[armlx]

I would rather not be officially tied to a group like that, but I will say your suspect list is pretty good and I believe you both to be town.

[armlx]

EBWODP: To clarify, I think groups like that are just good ways for people to accidentally be mistaken for scum and hide vote patterns.

[armlx]

I like how FL only brings 595 up after someone else does.

[armlx]

Actually, up until FL started trying to support other wagons, I could care less he was on Manito.

[armlx]

Care to elaborate TSN?

[armlx]

Misrep more and more, and even only into a slip attack.

I keep forgetting why I was voting FS, and now I remember...

[armlx]

But you arent voting remember, meta made you unvote

Notice the "was". That said, the meta has only made him go down the list, not disappear.

[armlx]

So, who's top of your list now?

Actually, still you, though its now considerable to switch to FL or KoC.

[armlx]

I really don't like things that distance people from their votes.

[armlx]

I can dig not "setting" them up but unless someone decides to really up the scum-level I will not shed a tear on FS, FL, KoC, or K7 at this point.

This is true.

SpyreX, I'm fine with listening to what you have to say and considering it strongly on each person, but the issue I have is that I want each member of any pact like that to be able to completely back out if they would like to. That way they can be held accountable for following the others.

[armlx]

I guess, I don't see how it changes much anyways. I'd rather handle it on a case by case basis.

[armlx]

Wait, so FS, its second suspect. I thought there was CF Riot and me....

[armlx]

An easy lynch will occur, thats all, and the rest of town should be pushing these players with votes as to what their cases are..

This is probably better at describing what I meant then what I was saying.

[armlx]

OMGUS CAN be a scum tell. It's not always a scum tell. But I think in this case, it could be. Meh.

This is a very decisive stand on the issue.....

[armlx]

Minor FoS: Knight of Cydonia for strawmanning FaerieLord. If she's lost, though, it would be best for her to ask about what she's confused about.

FaerieLord = he.

And if you aren't posting because you are lost, reread.

[armlx]

The little icon below FaerieLord avatar says FL is female.

Since when did that happen?

[armlx]

CFR makes a very valid point.

[armlx]

Just to clear this up, i have chatted with FarieLord in scum chat, and he is indeed a male, im guessing everyone assuming he was a female made him change his gender icon to female.

Indeed, this was my reference point.

Now, no more discussion of the issue beyond a statement from FL.

[armlx]

K7 and Joubert are to some degree, but only because neither have contributed to this game (and Joubert is being replaced).

So, from an outside perspective, you would find yourself scummy?

[armlx]

The issue is not the lack of posts and more the fact that the majority of your recent posts being devoid of real content on top of that.

[armlx]

I was addressing how manito fell of the map and just went to non-content posts.

[armlx]

I realize. You also made a few devoid of content posts between then and now.

[armlx]

Just doing my best to stay with things here, but real life takes precedence.

I realize 100%.

[armlx]

What are you trying to say?

And why couldn't both be scum?

As for partners, I refer back to the lurkers subsection.

[armlx]

You can't cite odds to say "A and B can't be scum together".

[armlx]

While it can be done, it has a very low value until you lynch the scummy person first and see some facts.

The exception is when the death of one scum leads to a team loss for them, meaning if player A has no feasible buddies, he isn't scum. But this isn't Polygamist.

[armlx]

That kind of speculation before someone dies and is shown town/scum usually only serves to distract from wagons most of the time if it is then discussed.

[armlx]

Vote KoC

Lets get this game moving somewhere.

LEHMAN BROS!!!!!

Firestarter - 4 (CF Riot, SpyreX, Knight of Cydonia, StrangerCoug)
Knight of Cydonia - 4 (LlamaFluff, killa seven, orangepenguin, armlx)
FaerieLord - 1 (Manito)
StrangerCoug - 1 (TheSweatpantsNinja)
killa seven - 1 (Joubert)
Manito - 1 (FaerieLord)
CF Riot - 1 (Firestarter)

13/7/4

-Mod

[armlx]

I think SpyreX wins here given the OMGUS.

Vote FS

[armlx]

Armlx, can you list your 3 top suspects?

FS, SC, FL. Same as yesterday.

I support SpyreX's hammer 100%.

[armlx]

And armlx.. please try harder...

I don't get it. You assume because I haven't changed my mind, I haven't looked?

[armlx]

I haven't assumed anything, because your posts are devoid of anything to make assumptions from...

That's pretty much a bold faced lie and you know it.

[armlx]

I notice a recurring group of 4 among everybody.

SC, K7, FL, FS.

Does anyone not have at least 1 of those on their scum list?

[armlx]

LF, I'm not advocating a clean sweep. I was actually going to jump on anyone who said that without a good reason (for example, SpyreX if he hadn't made the "look at how all the wagons on them keep failing" note). But I was making the point that a larger then average proportion of scum probably is in that group. I'd bet 2-3 of the 4 are scum.

[armlx]

Why, in your opinion do the lynches fail?

Your scum buddies don't join.

[armlx]

Obviously, the only person other than myself that think it's possible you're scum is one of the most scummiest players in the game, so I am not going to even explore that wagon anymore, especially since it looks like my whole reasoning was OMGUS, when it wasn't

This is dumb reason to drop a wagon.

[armlx]

I'm very confident SpyreX just won the game.

[armlx]

FS needs to go and be the domino that falls and wins us the game.

FS first. No doubt.

[armlx]

FoS: armlx for tunnel vision.

Lol.

[armlx]

Both times people kept being bitches and not wanting to lynch FS, and the game stangated until someone changed their mind.

[armlx]

Your vote was the catalyst for the last lynch....

It was. The game was going nowhere, something needed to happen. I explained this. KoC was legitimately scummy, and while not my top choice my vote and attacks on said choice were getting nowhere.

[armlx]

Hey, look, FL and SC are on that last list Firestarter made. Oh, and K7.

That's convenient.

[armlx]

EBWODP: My point is you just made a list of not CFR. It was irrelevant in the context of the game, as both lynches were decided by compromise between the lynching you and not lynching you groups.

[armlx]

I could read what you posted Spyrex, but I know what I done through the game tnx...

[armlx]

TSPN, is that a typo?

[armlx]

Yeah, I assumed by the L-1 comment.

[armlx]

He did. Again.

[armlx]

I still say FL and SC.

[armlx]

Wow, forgot about FL being the tiebreaker there.

Vote FL

[armlx]

OP, FS was town....

[armlx]

On a side note, anyone find it funny that Spyrex swapped from FS to hammer KoC for D2.0, and then made an amazing post to get FS lynched on D2.5? I just noticed that while re-reading FL's history.

Not really, this has been explained a fair amount already.

[armlx]

Was the switch because of that previous agreement thing? Is that what you're referring to?

It had more to do with the fact that the game was just completely stalled at that time and for some reason no one was willing to wagon FS, so a swap had to be made.

Actually, in retrospect, I'm now suspicious of those who were on the KoC wagon and refused to vote FS in the first part of D2 then voted him the second part. Not sure who that is, but it was a good way to milk another mislynch out of the scenario.

[armlx]

As someone who didn't vote FS the first part of D2, I think that's BS

You didn't vote KoC during part 1.

The coinciding groups are myself, SpyreX, SC, Llama, and OP. Time to reread and see who directly opposed an FS lynch at the time KoC died (Llama I know did)

[armlx]

Manito, the logic is both the two were town, and getting KoC assured lynched first by refusing to lynch FS was basically a way of getting a free mislynch.

[armlx]

See, TSN, Llama falls under the group of "KoC first only plz". I'm not sure if that means he was the starting point for scum opportunism or was the opportunism.

See above post too.

[armlx]

I still say we should be lynching Manito today and not FL.

Hmm, this is what I expected given what I said earlier about Llama.

Current theory is FL + 2 of (K7, SC, Llama) as scum.

[armlx]

Case and point, folks. Firestarter suggested we go after a leader, and Llama's "leadership" style seems most suspect.

No, that's bad logic. FS never even made a real case on anyone, just OMGUSed. If he had made legit cases we ignored because he was scummier then them, then we could go back and look at them.

[armlx]

Not saying that he ever necessarily made a real case, just that he made a pretty good suggestion to go after one of the vocal leader types.

Except his suggestion was solely based on OMGUS.

If someone flips town, it simply adds weight to the valid cases they made. Not invalid ones.

The rest of what that post said is valid, I just feel that you need to reconsider that reason.

[armlx]

Yeah, I see what you're saying. Of those four, though, the two I find most suspicious are SC (obviously, I think he's suspicious regardless), and orangepenguin. I think LF and spyrex have been more pro-town.

Hmm, forgot about OP in my previous scum list. I'm not sure where I stand on that. Prob belongs on the list somewhere.

[armlx]

forbiddanlight - 9 (killa seven, armlx, SpyreX, Manito, Corinthian, Knight of Cydonia, Joubert, CF Riot, Gimbo)
Corinthian - 6 (LlamaFluff, Firestarter, TheSweatpantsNinja, StrangerCoug, orangepenguin, FaerieLord)
Knight of Cydonia - 7 (LlamaFluff, killa seven, orangepenguin, armlx, Firestarter, StrangerCoug, SpyreX)
Firestarter - 7 (SpyreX, armlx, orangepenguin, StrangerCoug, Manito, TheSweatpantsNinja,LlamaFluff)

theopor_COD -> armlx (FL, KoC, FS)
Joubert (FL)
Syrial -> killa seven (FL, KoC)
Lquiz -> FaerieLord (Corin)
SpyreX (KoC, FS)
Gimbo -> LlamaFluff (Corin, KoC, FS)
ShadowGirl -> TheSweatpantsNinja (FS)
dcorbe -> BlckKnght -> orangepenguin (Corin, KoC, FS)
Manito (FL, FS)
Bogre -> StrangerCoug (Corin, KoC, FS)

The only person whose play hasn't been disrupted by replacement only on 1 wagon is FL, mister "Changed my play style, but didn't".

[armlx]

Can we just go over what pairings make sense now? And whether its a 1 way connection or reciprocal? Like SC-OP is one, FL-K7 another.

[armlx]

That pair makes a fair amount of sense given the KoC issue.

[armlx]

So, how tinfoil hat are we going with this?

Not extremely, but some clearly don't make any sense.

[armlx]

Is said game ongoing OP?

[armlx]

What this all sounds like is Llama is scummy to Manito because (surprise) K7 and FL are.

I say lynch them first.

[armlx]

See above.

More FL/K7 lynch?

[armlx]

Woo, took long enough to replace him....

[armlx]

Hey, Manito and LlamaFluff are the big standouts and I

intend to have one of them lynched

, OK?

Bad/scummy phrasing, or is it just me?

[armlx]

FL/K7/SC?

Calling it now. After I was wrong the first time about calling it. SC definitely has the "always a secondary suspect" thing going on.

[armlx]

On the other hand Armlx has often not even provided reasoning for his vote.

Which?

The FL vote where I mention how he contradicts his own meta with a changed meta then flip flops more or less again? Where he casts the deciding vote D1.5 and then does nothing?

[armlx]

Maybe he is referring to my constant revoting of FS, which I stated reasons for about 2 lynches before he actually was lynched, and the revoting after each lynch didn't need to be rejustified?

Or the already discussed KoC lynch?

[armlx]

So....

Your 3 comments come out to 2 that are straight up info, no analysis, and one that means nothing?

[armlx]

Protective much? (of spyrex...)

Hardly. I want him to post what his statements mean, rather then just stating "X happened" and waiting for someone to work with it.

[armlx]

Sigh, this stall is lame, but I'm pretty sure TSN and SpyreX are town, so

Unvote, Vote SC

[armlx]

..What?

I don't get it either.

[armlx]

OHH NO WE ARE DOING IT AGAIN

Huh?

[armlx]

Armlx and spyrex are such obvious scumbuddies.

I'll be away for the next two days. Catch ya later.

Logic plz.

[armlx]

What SpyreX said.

[armlx]

This case is less convincing than your other ones and is just as likely to lead us to another town lynch.

Why thAd? Don't just say shit and not back it up.

The flip flop on FS is a good point SpyreX made with respect to SC, as well as the string of scummy posts re: K7 v Corin and the distancing from FL.

YOU HAMMERED TOWN WELL AWARE OF THE LIKELIHOOD OF SUCH. DESPITE HIS SCUMMY ACTIONS, YOU SAW THE ODDS AS KNIGHT OF CYDONIA BEING TOWN, BUT KILLED HIM ANYWAY.

This has been discussed. KoC was scummier then par, but not super scummy like FS. Worse lynches could have been made, and the day was stalling on it.

Replacing Joubert with K7 in the scum trio isn't a big step. All essentially a hunt for a random lurker.

[armlx]

So... OP, is he scummy or not?

[armlx]

Meh. My only issue with the case is it sounds like you were really on tilt while writing it, which is a null tell but makes the case seem a lot worse in the abstract.

[armlx]

I currently am sorta busy and am not sure if I'll have time before Wednesday to read the posts from this weekend.

[armlx]

Hmm. I have become aware that K7's meta actually implies his behavior in this game is indicative of scum him. Compare Shaft.ed's Monty Python Mafia and Mafia 76 (Cephrir's one) where he is reasonable and not too aggressive when attacked, to Random 3 and farside22's mini game, where the opposite is true.

[armlx]

K7 is obv scum.

Vote K7

[armlx]

I like an OP wagon as well.

[armlx]

- ThAdmiral - 113% scum
- Netlava - 65% scum
- OP - 50% scum / 50% crazy

I endorse this list, +/- a K7 depending.

[armlx]

Someone just needs to man up and do it. Arm / Llama, no hard feelings if you do it to get it movin. Wink

Nope. 1 mislynch buffer, 4 suspects, 3 scum = win. Lynch you = possible loss.

[armlx]

Well, when you think someone is scummy, and they flip town, with that happening twice, the person leading those wagons looks pretty scummy. Chances are, they are scum.

ORLY?

[armlx]

EBWODP: By that I mean, I find those who swung wagons much more suspect then those who led them.

[armlx]

SpyreX, logical fail though. All the obv scum are people trying to lynch you, so odds are once we start lynching them you won't be lynched.

[armlx]

If we're going to lynch "obv.-scum", then how is killa seven still alive?

Uhh, since when is someone doing what is meta norm for them regardless of alignment (except for the issue I brought up) something that "obv scums" them?

[armlx]

In any normal game I would probably be pushing for killa 7 instead of spyrex, but I think spyrex's large and incorrect cases that basically served only to distract/derail the town are one of the main reasons killa 7 hasn't been lynched yet. He's definately one I will be looking at tomorrow. Although I'm more likely to go after armlx.

Next level distancing.

[armlx]

I'm not intent on getting Spyrex lynched, but if he is just going to roll over, what am I supposed to think? "Oh, he's town!"

unvote

Wowie, nice flip.

[armlx]

Woah....

Unvote

....

OP and Net/FL switched? Wow....

[armlx]

I like an OP lynch.

[armlx]

Hmm. I'll take OP up on that one/

Vote ThAd

[armlx]

Hey idiots: if spyrex was town the mafia could have easily pushed his wagon to the fourth required vote. After all he has done you can't seriously be thinking of letting him off the hook.

Or all/most the people wagonning spyrex are scum. That's my bet.

[armlx]

You would say that because you are also scum.

This seems like a case of you just spewing suspects without backing.

I notice a net total of 0 cases on anyone from you.

[armlx]

I'd be very willing to back an OP lynch, seeing how he hasn't lived up to his wagonning history with respect to ThAd.

[armlx]

Cool. Onward in the name of progress and what not.

Unvote, Vote: OP

[armlx]

I'd still much rather have ThAdmiral, though.

But, I'll settle.

Unvote
Vote: OP

OP's actions have been more directly confirmable as scummy, where as ThAd could in way side theory just be lazy, and OP flipping scum after his last post re: ThAd wagon would confirm ThAd as scum via distancing.

[armlx]

In the end he was wrong, but certain members of the playing group didn't follow through with the "plan". Sort of makes him wagering his life on the fact he was right a bit hollow doesn't it?

I believe those who aren't voting him are those who voted SC regardless of the "wager".

[armlx]

I guess, this way, LF doesn't have to waste time making that "case" against me that he was promising. He can just put the finishing touches on the Manito case for Day 4. He would put me at L-1 during a lylo situation.

confirm vote: Spyrex

I am 100% sure this time. I actually think LF is slightly scummier than Spy, but since they are partners, I won't make a difference. Lets see him defend himself when Spyrex flips scum.

It just so obvious at this point.

[armlx]

It basically breaks down to those who have been actively scum hunting this game and been wrong, and those who haven't and are trying to blame the others for the mislynches.

[armlx]

Yeah, when you're a renter, you usually give 30 days (4 weeks) notice so you don't get charged fees at move-out Smile Notice was given on the 8th of October. My last day of work at the store I am currently at is tomorrow, then I have Friday - Wednesday to get moved in and situated, as well as getting the place I'm moving out of clean. We've been packing pretty hard the last week or so, which is why I've been much more quiet unfortunately. I've barely touched the computer except to quickly read/check for new posts/developments. I'll try to check regularly the next few days but I'll be moving the computer at the same time. If my internet isn't set up fast at the new place, our good friends (right next door) will I'm sure let me use their computer to check on stuff.

Long post about lack of internet is access = scummy, when a simple comment will do.[/quote

Lol.

Seriously?

[armlx]

Well.. that means either one or both is scum or we lose the game right there.

Or the day continues post mod kill.

[armlx]

Sooooo....

Are we just waiting on a decision re:TSPN and K7.

[armlx]

Wouldn't it be smarter just to lynch one of those two, for example k7, that way, only one person dies instead of two?

This is just dumb scum logic.

[armlx]

So... basically if both are town our fate falls with potential replacements rather then any in game factors?

That seems like a poor solution.

[armlx]

I don't even know how to respond to OP's last post.

[armlx]

I've got nothing against dead people with no outside info replacing back in.

[armlx]

I'm just confused completely right now. everything I thought was true this game just isn't.

[armlx]

Fuck it. This is the only logical conclusion.

Vote Spyrex

[armlx]

Blah. That was the other option.

[armlx]

Llama, ThAd, CFRiot.

Thats what it was.

[armlx]

Too many townies acting scummy here.

Lame.