Open 80 - Double Day Mafia (Game Over!)

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Hi, I'm in this game, and will read it soon.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I'm taking a pause from my reread to say that I assumed because of the black text that roles weren't being revealed until the end of the day, and immediately went "how did gimbo know fl was town! Obv scum slip!"

Then I realized.

From Day 1, I really don't like k7's play at all. I rarely do, but this game he's actually done something actively scummy as opposed to just not contributing.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I don't think either side of the manito-faerie lord, and then the koc-faerie lord, debate, has a lot of merit. I definitely understand the "some players need to be lynched regardless of alignment, and if they're scum so much the better" line of argument. I'm not sure I would have put forbiddanlight in that category, but I see where he's coming from.

I'm going to go with my day 1 instincts and

Vote: killa seven.

NINE TEN ELEVEN O CLOCK TWELVE O CLOCK ROCK

FaerieLord - 4 (SpyreX, Manito, Corinthian, Knight of Cydonia)
armlx - 2 (Firestarter, LaptopGun)
killa seven - 2 (CF Riot, TheSweatpantsNinja)
Manito - 1 (FaerieLord)
LlamaFluff - 1 (Firestarter)
Firestarter - 1 (armlx)
Corinthian - 1 (LlamaFluff)
LaptopGun - 1 (Bogre)

Not Voting - Joubert, killa seven, BlckKnght

15, 8.

-Mod

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

"I've played lots of mafia and I know what I'm talking about" called.

KoC:

Bogus

might be an overstatement, but its not really that strong. And, the "other players have done it as town" is a valid point. If you're saying "X is never done by town," and FL says, "look, X has been done as town, and here's why

I

did it as town," that's relevant.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Killa seven. Hence the vote. Forbiddanlight's trap was foolish, because those kind of "traps" almost always backfire, but I think k7's jump on that wagon was scummy nonetheless.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

And I replaced in like three days ago. So good luck with that.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

yea i just read your posts, all uve said is ive done something unordinary scummy as opposed to usual, then next post

days later

vote me with no explanation and call them instincts.

Sometimes I wonder if you even read. That second post of mine came literally

nine minutes

after my first one. That response leaves me content with my vote.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Firestarter's double post is only doubly accurate.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

There is no reason NOT to vote out of lylo.

I'd agree, generally speaking.

Knights of Cydonia's guarantee is. . . interesting. I'm not sure its scummy, but I don't think its a good idea.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

yo, can u not tell a fuckin joke when you see one? this is reaching and very weak.

In this post, K7 ignores vast quantities of an attack to pick on one weaker point.

GREETINGS

killa seven - 3 (TheSweatpantsNinja, Firestarter, Knight of Cydonia)
FaerieLord - 3 (Manito, Corinthian, SpyreX)
armlx - 1 (LaptopGun)
Manito - 1 (FaerieLord)
Firestarter - 1 (armlx)
Corinthian - 1 (LlamaFluff)
LaptopGun - 1 (Bogre)

Not Voting - Joubert, killa seven, BlckKnght, CF Riot

15, 8.

-Mod

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

do you have a LoS yet?

That's a new acronym on me. . . list of suspicion? If so, I don't really do lists. But I'd say laptopgun or firestarter would be my second choices.

Also, people seem to like TSN or TSPN. Those are both acceptable.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I really really don't like whole town lists. I think they're basically giving scum a list of who they should nightkill.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Check-in post. I'm starting to see armlx's case on firestarter, but I'd still prefer k7.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

his first "point" is utter bs, no need to pick on the rest of his corny logic.

No. Just because the first point is weak doesn't mean that the rest of it is. Its not, and at the very least, you need to tell us why it isn't.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

So, K7's buggered off again. I think someone is trying to avoid the difficult questions by lurking.

That is what he does.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

join me in lynching KOC?

If I were going to move, I'd be looking to move to firestarter, I think.

I appeal to the people on K7's wagon I've thought were town so far, SpyreX, TSN, unvote please. There are better lynches today.

At the very least, I want a legitimate defense and explanation against KoC's PBPA before I move my vote anywhere.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

God I hate you, Llama.

Me, Manito, and KoC have all gotten votes from you based on the idiotic idea that it's all right to vote for someone to pressure them into responding to you.

I refuse to respond to that kind of bullshit.

Huh, I missed this.

Tell us, corin: what kind of bullshit

do

you respond to?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

How many games have you played here???

Lulz.

So, um, where is corin? I know he doesn't like pressure votes, but I'm starting to hear what armlx is saying on k7, and I really don't like that "I don't respond to votes" tack he's taking.

Unvote, vote corinthian.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

If you don't respond to pressure votes, what do you think is the best way to get reactions from players?

Also, do you still think faerielord is suspicious?

And what differentiates your play from k7's?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

[quote="spyrex] See my problem? Based on the meta, the only time people would want to kill K7 is if he was being a useful, pro-town player. What does that ensure never happens? In what situations does that provide him an "advantage". [/quote]

I agree, k7's play in general annoys me more than anyone else on this site, except for maybe the gimbo's of the world, and I'm not sure a "lynch-k7-day-1-until-he-shapes-up" meta wouldn't be a bad idea. But that is how he plays, scum or town.

Of course, if he is scum this game, I know where I'll be looking next.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Yeah, I missed this slip, whatever it was.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

My pick for flavor of the month for scum is Corin. K7 has been horrible, Corin just happens to pretend that valid points people raise either don't exist or are completely illogical. I'd think the artful dodger is more scummy right now.

Y'know, the more I think about it, the more I feel like the really telling thing about the k7 and corin wagons is that corin is voting for k7, but k7 isn't voting for corin. One of these two is reaching to the obvious target and one of them isn't. So my vote will stay.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Wrong game?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I'd say we should be very careful in deciding who we lynch based on the list. I mean, this is not a difficult thing for scum to manipulate.

That said:
1. Corinthian
2. Firestarter
3. K7

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

[quote=laptopgun"] Random thought: one possible bad side affect of collecting the list is that it probably tells the mafia how good of a job each is doing blending in as town. D'oh!!! [/quote]

The other issue with these sorts of lists is that it gives mafia a list of who everyone thinks is pro-town to kill. I don't think that's a huge problem with only three listed, but its why you generally don't want to list every player. [/theory]

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

No one I think is actually scummy is remotely close to getting lynched, so may as well go with the person who is the most unhelpful in general and least likely to give off town tells.

I see what you're saying, but I think there's a better chance that corinthian comes up scum.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Vote StrangerCoug.

Not only the weak reasoning to switch the last vote, but the weak reasoning to switch every vote. Dude whiplashed from corin to k7, always going with the flow.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Ok, I dont get this, seriously. It seems like you want to use my list idea to make me scum but have no idea how to go about doing it, so are using it anyway?

Isn't that pretty much exactly what he said? I think my vote will stay for now.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I'd also like to see more out of SC.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I'm confused as to the lack of an SC wagon. He's clearly waiting to be told whether he should be following a K7 wagon or a KOC wagon. What would a PBPA against k7 possibly hope to accomplish?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I'm confused as to why you waited to contribute until after the mod started looking for someone to replace you, and even then, you're not adding anything new.

Well, the reason I was getting replaced was because I forgot about the game. And right now, I'm the only person voting you, so its not like I'm just following the crowd, by, say, fueling one of the leading wagons.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

You forgot about the game... *scoffs* So you forgot about being prodded too?

Dude, feel free to check my activity. I didn't post on-site at all in between August 27 and September 1. So when I came back and had eight games to check, this one slipped through my cracks.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I think the case on strangercoug is better than that of KoC. I also definitely don't like firestarter's OMGUS vote (fs may be claiming that he has reasons, but saying "you voted for me in a way I don't like" doesn't really count).

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I just wanted to see what I could get on both of you. I'm not taking sides on something I'm not adequately informed on.

What other information are you waiting on?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Strangercoug requires more votes. I really don't see how any of our leading candidates are better choices for lynch than him.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Care to elaborate TSN?

Sure, although I have to admit, every time firestarter posts, he makes me twitch, so maybe he's not as bad a candidate as I first thought.

Anyway, strangercoug: His first vote, he wagons killa seven. His second vote, he wagons corinthian. (His) Post 22, he says he thinks both k7 and corinthian are scum, and starts pushing the town to lynch either one. He's not exactly picking hard targets to go after, and he's pushing for a lynch. Over the course of the day, he jumps between the two once more, before settling on corinthian (town) lynch.

Day 2 starts, and behind k7, firestarter,

another

player already under suspicion, is his candidate. Then he has a weird exchange with llamafluff, where he votes and then unvotes him. . . sc-llamafluff buddies? Could be. After that, he's again trying to "decide" between k7 and now Knights of Cydonia, another player who others have expressed suspicion. But now that k7's wagon has died, he switches his vote for firestarter, yet

another

leading wagon.

To sum up, he hasn't voted for a single player that didn't already have a developed wagon, weird vote-then-unvote thing with llamafluff excepted.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

TSN: Who's 2nd scummiest after SC to you?

Firestarter.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Why Firestarter?

He's OMGUSy, he had a huge reach of a "stretch" on KoC, hasn't done anything particularly pro-town.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

No case... just OMGUS?

OMGUS is a scumtell, so that'd be why people are calling you out on it.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

OMGUS CAN be a scum tell. It's not always a scum tell. But I think in this case, it could be. Meh.

Semantics. I mean "scumtell" in the sense of "scum sometimes do this," not "this is an absolute indicator of scum" (because really, almost nothing is an absolute indicator of scum.)

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Jesus, that was abrupt.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Vote strangercoug.

The continued lack of attention on him continues to bother me, and plus, he jumped on an inexplicable quicklynch with nary a hint of reasoning.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

And your case on me other than that is what again?

What I wrote yesterday (er, yesterhalfday) is just as true today. Keep trying to OMGUS your way out of it.

Anyway, strangercoug: His first vote, he wagons killa seven. His second vote, he wagons corinthian. (His) Post 22, he says he thinks both k7 and corinthian are scum, and starts pushing the town to lynch either one. He's not exactly picking hard targets to go after, and he's pushing for a lynch. Over the course of the day, he jumps between the two once more, before settling on corinthian (town) lynch.

Day 2 starts, and behind k7, firestarter, another player already under suspicion, is his candidate. Then he has a weird exchange with llamafluff, where he votes and then unvotes him. . . sc-llamafluff buddies? Could be. After that, he's again trying to "decide" between k7 and now Knights of Cydonia, another player who others have expressed suspicion. But now that k7's wagon has died, he switches his vote for firestarter, yet another leading wagon.

To sum up, he hasn't voted for a single player that didn't already have a developed wagon, weird vote-then-unvote thing with llamafluff excepted.

Except now you can add jumping on yet

another

wagon of another townsperson, that being KoC. Plus the misrepresentation of "I voted for you because I wanted to get attention on you." I voted for you because I think you're scum; I also want the town to pay attention to you because, for some reason, they aren't.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

You brought up my not getting the attention you wanted before you mentioned the vote on Knight of Cydonia, which made the former look like part of your case on me. Be careful doing that please.

I don't see how anyone paying attention to the game could possibly be confused when I went after the same person I had gone after yesterday. One would think

you

would recall that I had gone after you, so your "confusion" seems hard to believe.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Firestarter would be second, for sure, and after that. . . k7, I suppose, although that's as much due to my general "killa seven is always a 10 percent better choice than a random lynch" feeling.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

This implies that although players are saying they want them lynched they don't. Which, to me, implies that at least one of them are scum.

I think so also. In particular, the sudden switch from growing FS-wagon to sudden KoC lynch was notable.

Of course, its hard to tell the difference between people who are pretending to have tepid scummy feelings about scumbuddies, and people who actually have tepid scummy feelings about players (say, k7 in my case).

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

A Power Jump on KoC's wagon...
You have gotta be kidding me with that statement..
Coming from the Power-Hammerer yourself.

In your opinion, what is the difference in scumminess between spyrex's hammer and you putting KoC at L-1?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

You'd be better off asking the actual player who placed KoC at -1.....

Er, L-2. You're right, L-1 was SC. The question still stands.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

If the vote and my lack of attention are right next to each other, then that's the problem.

What? No. Is there now a rule that "most important reasons" must be next to votes? A rule that you must restate your entire case the next day? I don't see anyone else having this problem.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

L-2. The case is convincing, but I'd like to give firestarter at least one last chance to respond before I jump on.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Thank you SpyreX for spelling it all out for us. You are our hero and we will give you dozens of fair maidens and have a holiday in your name.

Unvote, vote spyrex.

L-1.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Um, yes.

Unvote, vote firestarter.

As you should be well aware, armlx, sometimes I don't pay attention when I type things.

ZOOP ZOOP ZOOP

Firestarter - 6 (SpyreX, armlx, orangepenguin, StrangerCoug, Manito, TheSweatpantsNinja,)
StrangerCoug - 1 (CF Riot)
SpyreX - 1 (Firestarter)
Manito - 1 (LlamaFluff)

Not voting - Joubert, killa seven, FaerieLord

12 alive, 7 to lynch.

-Mod

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I've got one.

Vote strangercoug.

*

*For the same reasons as the last two days.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

The coinciding groups are myself, SpyreX, SC, Llama, and OP. Time to reread and see who directly opposed an FS lynch at the time KoC died (Llama I know did)

The person who stands out to me in that group is OP. SC has been on

every

wagon, which is, I think, a fine reason to lynch him. You, spyrex, and llama have all been playing pro-town games, I think. OP hasn't made much of an impression on me, and that under-the-radar shift stands out to me.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

It's funny coming from someone else who has gone under the radar, basically.

See, when you say "under-the-radar" what you mean is "hasn't attracted any negative attention." That's not really the same thing at all.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

See, TSN, Llama falls under the group of "KoC first only plz". I'm not sure if that means he was the starting point for scum opportunism or was the opportunism.

Yeah, I see what you're saying. Of those four, though, the two I find most suspicious are SC (obviously, I think he's suspicious regardless), and orangepenguin. I think LF and spyrex have been more pro-town.

No, that's bad logic. FS never even made a real case on anyone, just OMGUSed. If he had made legit cases we ignored because he was scummier then them, then we could go back and look at them.

Yeah, Firestarter accused about eight people of being scum. . . I mean, the odds are he was right on some of them, but lynching leaders just because they're leaders is poor play.

(ITP I only comment on armlx's comments on other people's posts).

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Anyway, strangercoug: His first vote, he wagons killa seven. His second vote, he wagons corinthian. (His) Post 22, he says he thinks both k7 and corinthian are scum, and starts pushing the town to lynch either one. He's not exactly picking hard targets to go after, and he's pushing for a lynch. Over the course of the day, he jumps between the two once more, before settling on corinthian (town) lynch.

Day 2 starts, and behind k7, firestarter, another player already under suspicion, is his candidate. Then he has a weird exchange with llamafluff, where he votes and then unvotes him. . . sc-llamafluff buddies? Could be. After that, he's again trying to "decide" between k7 and now Knights of Cydonia, another player who others have expressed suspicion. But now that k7's wagon has died, he switches his vote for firestarter, yet another leading wagon.

To sum up, he hasn't voted for a single player that didn't already have a developed wagon, weird vote-then-unvote thing with llamafluff excepted.

This is the case I made two days ago. In the meantime, you can add two more townie wagons that he has jumped onto late. OP, which part of that do you disagree with?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

SC-LF makes sense to me. Well, I suppose SC-LF-OP makes sense, then.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

More SC lynch? Did anyone else notice him try to find yet another wagon to jump on?

TO ME, IT'S NOT THE PRINCIPLE OF THE THING, IT'S THE MONEY.

FaerieLord - 3 (armlx, orangepenguin, SpryeX)
LlamaFluff - 2 (Manito, StrangerCoug)
Manito - 1 (LlamaFluff)
StrangerCoug - 1 (TheSweatpantsNinja)

Not voting - ThAdmiral, killa seven, FaerieLord

10 alive, 5.999... to lynch.

-Mod

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Anyway, strangercoug: His first vote, he wagons killa seven. His second vote, he wagons corinthian. (His) Post 22, he says he thinks both k7 and corinthian are scum, and starts pushing the town to lynch either one. He's not exactly picking hard targets to go after, and he's pushing for a lynch. Over the course of the day, he jumps between the two once more, before settling on corinthian (town) lynch.

Day 2 starts, and behind k7, firestarter, another player already under suspicion, is his candidate. Then he has a weird exchange with llamafluff, where he votes and then unvotes him. . . sc-llamafluff buddies? Could be. After that, he's again trying to "decide" between k7 and now Knights of Cydonia, another player who others have expressed suspicion. But now that k7's wagon has died, he switches his vote for firestarter, yet another leading wagon.

To sum up, he hasn't voted for a single player that didn't already have a developed wagon, weird vote-then-unvote thing with llamafluff excepted.

This is the case I made two days ago. In the meantime, you can add two more townie wagons that he has jumped onto late. OP, which part of that do you disagree with?

This was written today. And now you can watch him waver and just which one of LF or you he thinks he can lynch the easiest.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Note: My above post should read "manito" at the end instead of "you." I meant to include more snark that would make that clear, but that didn't end up happening.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

TheSweatpantsNinja, if your opinion is that LlamaFluff and Manito are both town (which I don't believe), then I'd like to hear how you came about that based on their actions.

Actually, you, LF, and OP are my current most likely scumgroup.

WE HAVE TO SAVE THE CHEERLEADER!

FaerieLord - 2 (armlx, orangepenguin)
LlamaFluff - 2 (Manito, StrangerCoug)
StrangerCoug - 2 (TheSweatpantsNinja, SpryeX)
Manito - 1 (LlamaFluff)

Not voting - ThAdmiral, killa seven, FaerieLord

10/6

-Mod

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Eh, I just said that cause I was really annoyed how I was being partnered up to FS when I barely interracted with him the entire game, before then, so I found it weird and contrived. It wasn't a joke, just a sarcasticly annoyed eyeroll. The tongue smiley was just mocking the ridiculousness of it. I guess I see what you're getting at though, even though your assumptions are dead wrong. *shrug*

Obviously you aren't FS' partner, but frequently barely interacting with a person

is

a sign of partnership, so you shouldn't be particularly surprised when people say so.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Yeah, I don't really know what else to say about today. I've made the case on SC, I still think he's the best lynch. . . *shrug*