Large Normal 231 | Etymologies | Game Over

[Momrangal]

Mmm...

At the very least, I want Luca and Andre to claim today. We don't have to get anyone else outside of them

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I would prefer you wait for Luca and Andre to claim unless one of them is the clear

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.... Huh

I thought I snipped a neighborhood between Andre/Luca. Clearly I was seeing something that wasn't there

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Also potential masonry based off the way Gamma was defending Norwee. Much to rethink

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^as Scum*

Sorry that explanation sucks. chkflip was setting up Hayker as a mis-elimination. I think that’s obvious from yesterday. I think Hayker is for sure Town.

This is about where I'm at with Hayker as well

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UNVOTE:

[Momrangal]

Bina
Hayker
Vax/gamma

Andres
Molla
Norwee
Vax/gamma
Luca

That's what everything looks like now

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Molla: I still do believe him to be town. The way he claimed and then unclaimed miller was just so... Sloppy. This isn't mollas first time around the block so he knows how to play as scum. He's been disengaged from day two onward. He had good energy d1 but then alot of things happened and it feels hes still trying to process it all. It Definitely tracks because getting into this game was hard, I had to make a notes PT so that I could put more thought into this game just after the first night and I don't think I would have been able to follow the game without it. Molla scum doesn't get alot of benefit from playing in this way, and he is one of the players who plays scum well. Nothing he does make sense from a scum perspective but it does make sense from the town perspective of not knowing what the fuck is going on.

As scum, he could be lost and confused as well, but there would be a desire to get his ass in gear so that he has a semblance of a chance to win but that isn't happening here

[Momrangal]

Andre, level with me.

I know I pushed you yesterday but today you are one of my top town reads.

Did something happen overnight to put you over the edge on Luca?

Also, I'm down with Quiet, also have a PoE scum read on Vax. Hayker is also town

I think Luca is likely Scum for the same reasons I pushed there yesterday. Nero’s flip only confirms that my reasoning there was not horrendous. Whether I’m actually right at all, I don’t really know. Time will tell.

Also, am I the only one that did not believe Bypasser’s Mason claim?

Andre, if I'm right about certain pt that can influence your reads I need to know, because it will definitely lend credence to Luca!scum here

Look I’ll walk you through what has influenced how I’ve tackled this game, and maybe why I’ve had some of the reactions that I’ve had, and maybe that’ll explain why I think paying attention to {Norwegian, quiet, Gamma, DGB} is correct here.

If you look at my ISO, I simply wasn’t around much between the beginning of the game, and by the time Cheeky replaced out. So I missed a lot of the real time flow of the game there, which was huge. Had I been paying closer attention, I would have followed {Gamma, Norwegian} and others that were pushing Cheeky for good reasons, and had frozen Scum on their sights. It was a good push, one they clearly rallied a lot of Town towards, and which took time and pressure. I only started paying closer attention once Bypasser and Not_Mafia came into the game. I had also just come out of a game with Not_Mafia where, like I said, they had greatly contributed to a Town victory. So I knew they weren’t just garbage, and wanted to see if I could Town read the slot and perhaps pay attention to their approach. Also, for what it’s worth, I was spot on about Nero. So if you combine the fact that I just mostly missed a good push by some of the players I’ve highlighted, and the push onto Nero which *was* bad, then you get this situation where I’m mistrustful of Norwegian/quiet/DGB. But they are like very likely Town, and have a better grasp for where the game is at.

So yeah, my reads have been bad, and my feel for the game here just hasn’t been there. So I think we need to listen to them more. And yeah, I was reading Luca’s approach to the early part of today - it seemed Town motivated. On top of the fact that they had a very decent POE they listed, where we only disagree on Vax if I recall correctly.

I mean I get it, but I'm looking more at Luca than I am looking at yours. I would admit that I am a bit curious on why you thought you would receive shit for flipping Luca from town to scum D1 but if I'm right, it means he was trying to pocket you and his shift on his read to you today is the result of the failed pocket

I only got slight vibes that Luca was trying to pocket me, but it could have simply been that we were vibing, and being on opposite sides of the Nero wagon just made me really uneasy about them.

Out of all of the players that ultimately voted for Cheeky/Not_Mafia, Luca is one of the ones that does not get to derive a whole lot of Town cred for it. But! I have been *so bad* this game, that I cannot trust whatever my reads in the early part of the game were.

Then there were these string of posts. Everyone else can form their own opinions on these posts but I approached Andre twice about his read on luca and I specifically asked if my read on him having a pt with Luca was based in reality. Based on the claim now, I'm confused and conflicted on how to deal with these

I feel like I might be overly paranoid regarding Andres and his responses on scum reads toward him does make sense from someone who is irritated, and thinks the reads are poorly formed.

[Momrangal]

I think we need the Vig to Claim. I at least would like to have that.

Actually, it doesn't have to be a vig. 3P comes to mind.

Are there 3p in normal games?

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And if it was 3P, what happened to the other kills?

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One shot vig is way more likely and I don't like that last post

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I think Norwee is most likely the one in that list to be scum With Vax. I think gammers is the vig here but with it being unconfirmed Im holding off reading between gamma and Vax atm. I've mostly been backing off Norwee on gammas request and some of the things he's done can come from town but I can't get over the bad pushed he's been making all game. His unapologetic nature makes him seem more town but like...

I don't see how he can be so confident that he's right in this phase and not be shaken by the mislynches that he's led

[Momrangal]

Working on him next but I'm thinking it's either him or Norwee.

Eating lunch rn

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Idgi

Gamma and you were the only ones who had yet to claim, I don't understand who the vig is here

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Also chk visited both me and andres

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That is a little weird

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No I'm vt, I've claimed VT ages ago

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Gamma, if you have more than just a meta read them it needs to be outted now because like, I'm getting tired of this defense of norwee

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Alot of people were scum reading chk

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Bina, hayker, myself and andres are two scum between Luca, you, molla, Norwee, and gamma. If the vig is in that pool they need to claim

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You don't think he has the ability to be active as scum? That's just as bad as saying nero is a lurksack as scum like....

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I'm more than sure that there is two in (Norwee, Vax, Luca) sooo

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You think the lim chk wanted was scum?

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Gamma are you deep wolfing again?

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Luca: I struggle to follow him, and figure out his mindset and what his angle would be this game from either alignment, which is more notable early on. There's alot of fence sitting from his slot.

I thought he and andres could have a PT together in the game because

VOTE: Andres

Going here

Bad take.

Before this post, he hasn't mentioned Andres and his read on him at all. I couldn't figure out where his read on him came from. I figured it came from a place where nobody else could see

Further down in iso there is minimal interaction with other members and then nero is getting ran up and he easily puts some pressure behind that wagon, makes speculation that NM is bussing nero there which... Is kinda weird. He did have a scum read on NM at that point but with his progression with Nero, he dipped into what scum could possibly be doing. However, I'm not versed in who he is as a player to know if he does that as town.

@Andres

But it makes no sense for me to go so hard at Nero if I planned to let Norwegian take the blame for his green flip.

Do you at least see that?

I mean do you think Nero is going to flip Town? You seem to be preparing for such an outcome.

....seriously Andres?

I'm arguing against your perspective of me being scum and Nero being Town. No, I don't think he will flip Town.

This post might also be a good find, idk.

Further interaction with andres this D1 tracks with him wanting to pocket that slot, and not really reading andres alignment. He's just saying he's town, in the hopes that he won't question him to much and when it didn't seem to work, out of no where and I again don't really understand why he's all of a sudden paranoid of his read on Andre.

He makes pushes that are easy to make, and more or less going after lhf. The only one that doesn't seem like such would be his push on me, buy the entire time, he doesn't really even push me despite scum reading me and is going after the easier ones that are around me

He says that he had to reassess the game but his scum reads outside of me remains the same.

It doesn't look he's reassessed the game at all. I originally thought his recent posts look good but like, he doesn't get any more than knee deep into the game. Everything he is doing is as shallow as tide pools and like, he still isn't showing much analysis in the game

[Momrangal]

Vax, Luca, Norwee are my bottom three and I'm most feeling Luca/Vax atm

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I don’t have more to say so i’m fine with it.
Yeet Vax.

Why do you keep on doing this? You keep wanting to but in on every conversation to be relevant or something

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UNVOTE:

I need a moment

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To argue that i’m insane to believe it could be third party is literally TMI’ing that there are 4 scum.

I aefued the same thing but sure, ok. I probably have too much information myself

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Oh I thought I was on Vax

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Actually I’m starting to think Norwegian has a point. The reason the Vig is not outting is because they completely ruined the Scum plan and would get immediately shot by them at Night.

Do you?

From my perspective, molla is paranoid because the game just got turned on its head alot of people had gotten taken out of the picture, so those that who are still in them need to be looked at with more scrutiny. There isn't a single town at this moment that should be overly confident. Everyone should be reevaluating their reads and what I don't see is Norwee doing that.
Similarly to how he doesn't reevaluate after strongmanning two mislynches he isn't reevaluating his non conf-town, town reads. He isn't reconsidering Luca at all and is sticking to his own shitty readlist while calling everyone who goes against him horrible.

I don't think he's town here

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VOTE: Norwee

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I seriously doubt chk tries to move a CW from town titus to scum! Hayker. Not when they are already down one but he's ignoring that

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Ur gone m8

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There were alot of clashing personalities

I'm glad that I was able to lock andres tho

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Norwee definitely played the part of prospective town leader and what ultimately got him was the smaller things.

Like the fact that he didn't seem to care that he was eliminating town after town.

I do believe he believed in his reads, but even the most stubborn players do a revision of their reads when they've been on the wrong side all game.

At the end of the day imo, was his desire to become a town leader, while trying to make the other team leaders not emerge and the fact that he continued to try and lead town and had the level of confidence he had despite eliminating town over and over again.

Even I would admit that Norwee moved up and down my read list constantly. He was like a bouncing ball lolol

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I also think that he made a pretty big mistake when he suggested that we could No kill and then, not to long afterwards, was against it.

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Gamma notes is still hidden?

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I think that is probably my favorite SK role I've ever seen

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Mom saying she has Comms with a VT is suspicious on day one.

It’s not like her to lie

Pftt I wasn't lying lol.

Everyone assumed I was saying I had communication with Nero but I was talking about the fact that we talk to each other because we're friends.

We also share a hydra

This doesn't belong in maths thread >>