Large Normal 230 - Game Over

[Insanoflex]

Hey all. Still reading up on the game, only about halfway through right now. Might need another day to get fully caught up, trying to speedskim through the game in 24 hours gave me a headache.

[Insanoflex]

...well what the fuck. Guillotina just earned a place on my shit list for that gamethrow.

I had gone in overnight doing analysis on the assumption Nero was confirmed scum and was looking for connections to him. Now I have to throw all that stuff in the trash and start again.

[Insanoflex]

VOTE: nero cain
i'm balancing if this is like... kokusho's gambit from guillotina or if it's just a stupid lie, but to be totally honest nero drove the elimination on pretentious and then posted this after guillotine's supposed redcheck:

like, I didn't think Guil had to be scum or anything but there's no way to get a guilty on me as I'm not a miller or scum so...

which makes me feel like this is a tmi scumslip and not the town response to an apparent cop guilty.

oh. fuck. that's embarrassing.

there's.... no way nero could have been the scumkill right? it would have to be a vig?

Is it just me, or does this look faked? Like, am I supposed to believe they opened the thread and laid down a vote without looking up 4 posts to see Nero had died and flipped green? Seems way more like an attempt to look town via acting ignorant than an actual mistake anyone would make.

VOTE: TheGoldenParadox

[Insanoflex]

SCUM who doesn't what to get involved with what he knows to be townie madness:

Hey all. Still reading up on the game, only about halfway through right now. Might need another day to get fully caught up, trying to speedskim through the game in 24 hours gave me a headache.

You try replacing into a 97 page game, see how easy it is to get caught up.

[Insanoflex]

Checking in. I have a work event this afternoon and into tonight and all day tomorrow. So I'll be able to do some reading come Sunday.

Anyone want to give me some cliffs notes?

muh got wagoned day 1, then Pretentous came in and tried a way-too early quickhammer and everyone jumped on him for that. On day 2 Guillotina came out and claimed a red check on Nero Cain, his claim was sketchy as hell so people voted him for it, he flipped town, then for some reason mafia shot the VT the claimed guilty was on. So basically it's been a series of gamethrows so far.

[Insanoflex]

then for some reason mafia shot the VT the claimed guilty was on

you know this... how?

I kind of assumed it based on there only being 1 kill on both nights, although I guess you're right that there are other possible explanations.

[Insanoflex]

Best as I can tell Non Imh is like this in all their games. I don't feel like going for a policy vote today when we've had 2 straight day phases that were basically trolled.

[Insanoflex]

Lol goddammit.

I'm still recalibrating my reads list, but this does feel like a game where active town have been tearing themselves apart while scum just lurk it out and do nothing. Question is just which lurkers are scum.

[Insanoflex]

I was expecting the non lmh replacement but May too is really annoying.

[Insanoflex]

I will say on reassessment I agree muh's a better vote than non, as I perceive actual scummy behavior from them vs non simply just...not existing

[Insanoflex]

I guess my big issue is: Why Non Imh over basically any other low content slot? I don't really like how this seems to be moving unanimously in one direction. I don't have a good feel for where people's heads are at. I went back and recalibrated my reads based on the Nero flip, here's where I'm at right now:

Town

Gamma Emerald: Just sort of obvtown. I thought 291 and 294 were fairly decent analysis, annoyance at JV in 411 felt legitimate. Steady flow of contribution in a game that's not really demanding a lot from most people. Really strong emotional reaction to the nonsense from Pretentious at the end of day 1 as well that I don't think comes from him as scum. It felt like even if he was wrong there, his conviction was strong, his anger righteous. 2190 is also a good point about DGB.

Umlaut: I feel like as scum he wouldn't bother calling out Guillotina's claim like he did in 2506, he'd just go along with the claimed redcheck knowing it's fake, then the vote the fakeclaim the day after. I don't think scum are nearly as likely start a wagon a claim they know is fake. I liked his early analysis although he's faded somewhat, may be a game pace issue.

Albert B Rampage: Bold, unafraid to take controversial stances even if I don't often agree with him. Wasn't afraid to get into a fight with norwegianboy at the end of day 1 despite him generally being townread. The way he brushed off Nero's reads as being static and confirmation biased also shows he's analyzing people's whole trajectory in their reads. The admission of reaction testing in 1873 is a layered play I don't see scum bothering with. Call to give attention outside the active players in 2063 is a good one.

innocentvillager: the way he pried at guillotina's claim early to try to see if it was legitimate was good and felt a townie sort of inquisitiveness. Refuses to take the easy votes. I think his suspect pool in 1870 isn't bad and is decent close to my own reads. 2455 felt like a genuine reaction to the fake redcheck. Wishing he'd follow up on 2671 though, need to see where he goes with that line of questioning.

Not Sure

NoPowerOverMe: ISO is like 90% filler and generic, non-controversial statements. There's occasional glimmers of something like 1081 and 1107 where he shows some semblance of scumhunting, but it's not often enough or frequent enough for me to townread him (I also think the read there is pretty bad, but in a game like this I'm going to give credit for some effort rather than none at all).

Non lmh: Too little content to go off. could go either way here.

May: Hasn't said a lot but at least appears to be nominally trying to contribute, has a fair number of stances that seems to be assembling a portrait of the overall game rather than just putting out noise, isn't just going with the flow on the non lmh vote. Not

overtly

scummy, anyhow. Not sure why no followup on her scumread of my slot though, shouldn't have gone away just because I replaced in.

DrippingGoofball: Somewhat lost and apathetic, came out the gates today strong but kind of seemed to be trying to spin a narrative around how people reacted to what was a very strange, confusing day? The flip on calling iv town after saying his iso was "not re-assuring" just doesn't really make a whole lot of sense trajectorywise, and she did similar with guillotina earlier in the game even if she just claimed it was an honest mistake. I

could

see this as a townie whose head isn't in the game

Scum

TheGoldenParadox: Intro to today feels fake, very under the radar, and from what I've seen, in other games they're more than capable of scumhunting as town, so the lack of...anything is very notable here. Is also very clearly avoiding posting in this game.

muh316: Low on relevant content, high on filler and complaining. Claimed he was pushing Guillotina "to get the game going", only to later say "there's nothing for me to do". 818 is overly self-aware for my liking. Has only popped in to vote on the major wagons, similar to TheDuke.

Glitch: Really don't like how he claimed to be scumreading Nero but voted Guillotina instead since the momentum was all on that wagon. Made a lot of excuses for not playing day 1, activity has picked up but the stuff he's saying really doesn't make any sense at all.

TheDuke/Starbuck: The read flip on guillotina is incredibly suspect, called him town early but then voted him when people started expressing suspicion of the claim, very go with the flow play, only sheeped onto major wagons, extremely low content but has gotten basically no attention for it. I empathize with Starbuck that the game is a lot to catch up on so I'm willing to give her a few more days, since it's taken me almost...a week? to get into this game, but I really need to see

something

here.

[Insanoflex]

I'm still recalibrating my reads list,

but this does feel like a game where active town have been tearing themselves apart while scum just lurk it out and do nothing.

thanks for the readslist.

can you elaborate on how you get to the above conclusion?

None of the most active players feel particularly scummy. They seem to have been trying to put things together. That leads me to suspect those who haven't said anything worthy of being townread.

Why Non Imh over basically any other low content slot?

He's the worst offender imo. Let's see what Vaxkiller has to bring to the slot.

Worst offender by volume, not by content. Non's functionally a nonentity (no pun intended) which isn't as bad as the people who are hopping in to pile on whatever wagon happens to be going at the time.

[Insanoflex]

Not really....

Yes, expect more content from me, but do not expect me to read through all this slog fest, I'll try skimming through and finding the meat. Bring stuff to my attention nd Ill tell you if its scummy or not.


TBH im disappointed, I thought this was going to be a doomed scum slot that I could wriggle and fight my way out of. Now I actually have to do work instead.

Okay, I don't like this opening, though.

[Insanoflex]

Haven't done a full dive yet, but I see that I'm not the only replacement in this game. At face value, Insano's wall looks decent. I don't think it means much to me however and I can very much seeing it come from scum. The timing and necessity of it as I looked back from his posting habits doesn't really line up. They're all just general statements, and while that is evidently true for most catch-up walls, I don't feel he is leading with any clear direction. It feels like he just grabbed a bunch of odd topics and condensed them. I only mention this because I am not favorable of the content of his previous slot, therefore I doubt the intent

It's just a readlist. Most of my analysis was based on drawing connections between people and Nero cain, so most of what I have left is pretty general.

[Insanoflex]

I understand that

Again, do you really think TGP is the best option here? I don't know, maybe I just feel differently about these situations. When my team is down, scum is winning. If scum is winning, they're either pulling the strings or just letting town eat themselves alive. I feel right now the thread morale is low but I don't think it's done due to in-fighting, rather apathy. You had Guillo who shit the bed and a bunch of unfortunate events. You have a ton of replacements and nobody seeing eye-to-eye. I don't think it's impossible for scum to be playing the part of town apathy, but I don't feel like TGP's posts were all that apathetic. At best, not interested.

Yes, actually. I feel they are not engaged in a way that is alignment indicative for them. They're capable of making meaningful attempts at solving. 2772 is not that. It's a lot of empty posturing that goes nowhere. Unless you're trying to tell me I'm missing something obvious I like my vote.

[Insanoflex]

I think Non Imh's posts are non-tells, and even in the event of an inactive lurk scum he'd at least be somewhat aware. None of them seemed like they involved other mates telling him what to do and not do, he just looked lost and confused. I think Non's wagon right now from an outsider perspective is either desperation by town or merely scum trying to push an easy wagon. Obviously, you're not there and voting TGP. TGP seems to think that Non Imh isn't the right call either. While I don't townread TGP (more on the side of null), I don't know what he gains being contrarian. He looks bad in hindsight but yeah, questioning if it's just..bad

I feel like just absently distancing yourself from a wagon while not doing anything and stepping away from the game is just posturing, but I guess I see what you're saying. By that metric, I think muh is worse.

[Insanoflex]

I don't understand what Vaxkiller is doing.

[Insanoflex]

VOTE: muh316

Looking forward to that catchup!

[Insanoflex]

VOTE: muh316

Looking forward to that catchup!

So why are you voting with him? Dont his actions give you pause to reconsider your muh scumread? Why not vote Vax?

Not really, muh hasn't done anything to make me reconsider. Just because I don't understand what he's doing doesn't make it scummy.

[Insanoflex]

Catching up.

Glitch is a lot scummier than Gamma. Not sure I really understand the problem unwnd has with him. Vax pushing on iv continues his WTF-ness, iv looks like one of the townier players to start the day today.

Not sure what benefit outing roles gives us today, if someone has info they can share it but otherwise mass claim makes more sense tomorrow

IV's claim is weird and surprising, but I don't really see the harm in voting out glitch today seeing as he was already a scumread of mine. I'm not entirely sure whether it fits, balancewise, though, but I don't really know how setups here are typically designed.

DGB's behavior around claims and initial pushback on IV is fairly suspect.

No posts from Glitch since the claim was outed, huh? Really want to hear what he has to say, the result plus how he was talking about how umlaut was an obvious kill is really funny, like he was practically bragging about it.

[Insanoflex]

Also, not sure I suspect TGP as much anymore.

[Insanoflex]

Okay, there's way too much power claimed, something is going on.

I'm a 2-shot gunsmith, I didn't use it N1 because I only had 24 hours and had barely read the game, plus less likely to get a guilty on N1. N2 I checked ABR because I didn't like how he had hammered both wagons and played around them, I got NO GUN which is why I had him as a townread in my list. N3 I checked TGP and also got NO GUN. That's also why I've been playing sort of under the radar because I didn't want to draw too much attention to myself and draw a NK.

[Insanoflex]

Lol. did DGB just get caught trying to save IV's fakeclaim?

[Insanoflex]

What did Umlaut say in the hood?

[Insanoflex]

Umlaut UNWND and I talked extensively last night. We talked about our reads our concerns and our scum reads.

The consensus was ALWAYS ABR/DGB is scum. Like for a 1000 reasons. Inno, NPOM, how could you not see that shit?

Less sure about the others but insanos claim helped launch him onto that list.

Gammas actions after everything, scum reading us both? lol

Excuse me?

Anyway, I'm on your side, was just hoping you could paraphrase some to show DGB is full of hot air.

[Insanoflex]

why isn’t this just TvT lol

don’t see how dgb’s softing on me or whatever is stuff she couldn’t have done as town rolestopper

Way too much town power. 3 investigatives + 2 protectives + a universal backup? Come on.

[Insanoflex]

I think I'd rather vote Glitch today if we're voting outside of PRs, because then at least we resolve that 1v1. the neapolitan can target VT claims and confirm or guilty them, DGB rolestops him tonight so he's guaranteed to get at least 2 checks in starbuck/nopower/gamma and that wins the game, probably.

[Insanoflex]

I'm still suuuper skeptical of the claims all being real, but if we keep them alive they have to keep giving reports.

[Insanoflex]

Insano, you're very sensible when you post but I worry about your activity/other gut pings. Give me a stream of consciousness when it comes to how you feel about this thread and why you've sorta avoided it

I don't know, I think I've just not gotten into the flow of the game? I think I got in over my head joining a game of this size for my first game here and haven't adapted well. I'mnot really used to the post you guys have been posting at, I used to play a long time ago and I'd just post a couple of times per day. I've been busy with IRL stuff and have a bad habit of procrastinating so I've been avoiding the game when I should be posting in it. It was also kind of dead before you/vax showed up and everyone started posting. It was also really hard to get reads off the game having to take in so much at once and with so many people it was impossible to get anything off of.

[Insanoflex]

I think I'd rather vote Glitch today if we're voting outside of PRs, because then at least we resolve that 1v1. the neapolitan can target VT claims and confirm or guilty them, DGB rolestops him tonight so he's guaranteed to get at least 2 checks in starbuck/nopower/gamma and that wins the game, probably.

you really think it’s that easy? 6 townies have died and we massclaim and we just get some confirmations and win it?

I can’t tell how I feel about this

I don't think it's easy but...if they have to keep giving investigations on the unconfirmed pool, it's guaranteed to narrow things down, right?

[Insanoflex]

Certainly you have a bit of reads even if they're maintained by gut or what have you. I've given up my nicer presentation of the previous days to just hash things out even if it isn't pretty. If you're town I'd love to see a bit of just letting loose

Oh, like in that sense? I'm still kind of spinnin from the claims. But I don't think you and Vax do some elaborate gambit like this as scum. I think DGB may be realclaiming her role but is scum regardless. IV I keep going back and forth on in my head because it's broken, but I scumread Glitch anyway and it's actually a very good claim for a bus. Which leaves...NoPower/Starbuck/Gamma? And to me NoPower and Starbuck are the scummier of the claimed VTs even if I have a little concern about Gamma. There seemed to be real conviction in how he interrogated your claim where there other two just...haven't done anything.

[Insanoflex]

Or IV is real and it's just all 3 of NPOM/Starbuck/Gamma Lol. Team do nothing?

[Insanoflex]

Insanoflex, it's possible that one of the neighbors is scum. That's why they are neighbors and not masons.

Neapolitan means they can only recruit VTs, right? So for any of them to be scum it'd have to be unwnd.

[Insanoflex]

it doesn't mean that the recruiter can't be scum.

Insanoflex, it's possible that one of the neighbors is scum. That's why they are neighbors and not masons.

Neapolitan means they can only recruit VTs, right? So for any of them to be scum it'd have to be unwnd.

The way you're going against this really makes it seem like you're afraid of getting boxed out.

[Insanoflex]

Is apathy and giving up here more likely from scum or town? That's sort of the emotional tenor I expect from town players in a game they're losing.

[Insanoflex]

I don't know. I really hate being wrong and usually overthink things and lose late game. Kind of why I dreaded thinking about this game for a while.

[Insanoflex]

I also feel the same. I think NPOM's 'Not scum, just bored' is a scumclaim btw

Would be a very good Neap target. Just saying.

ABR's apathy and giving up sucked so much shit

it’s also possible that it’s just fake because town might be screwed so who cares? do you think he’s town?

No I think he's scum right now, but that goes against what Insano is saying technically.

I admit I'm a little biased there because of my role.

[Insanoflex]

Lmao, what? Weren't you saying Umlaut was obvious town?

[Insanoflex]

I am flabbergasted at the idea of a vig that shot Umlaut and not Nero Cain.

[Insanoflex]

I'm not going to vote him but I can't really defend the way he's playing.

[Insanoflex]

VOTE: Glitch

[Insanoflex]

Insano I'm kinda looking at you from two perspectives right now

One being that you're Town PR and you refuse to vote ABR because it contradicts your own results

Two that you're scum who can't vote ABR because it would contradicts your fake results

I can see why you don't vote ABR anyways, but besides Glitch would you have other suggestion?

DGB. Or probably any of NPOM/Gamma/Starbuck

[Insanoflex]

I think what I'll likely do is just recruit one of the VT claims, because that's what my role is for.

I understand the Gunsmith result but I'm quite lukewarm to Insano's approach this game. He seems very detached, but there's nothing I hate when he pops in. Just wish he'd try harder to be more personable as with other players

That's just my personality, I guess. Used to get me scumread a lot. *shrug*

The gunsmith just means that he wasn't the one making the kill not that he is not a mafia. If he is a marquee Mafia member I wouldn't expect him to do the kill anyway.

This is incorrect, it's based on role, not who does the kill. The wiki says it would return a positive on a Neapolitan, apparently.

[Insanoflex]

If glitch is scum then insano is scum. The roles go are kinda made for each otehr in a way.

Huh? I don't follow.

[Insanoflex]

If anything, it feels like he saw my claim and made a desperation play to claim something that would go with my role.

[Insanoflex]

Okay TGP is scum here

Nope.

[Insanoflex]

Lol yeah, I cleared 2 people not on my team with my fakeclaim. Good one.

[Insanoflex]

Weren't you calling ABR scum? Why are you forcing me in there?

[Insanoflex]

Lol yeah, I cleared 2 people not on my team with my fakeclaim. Good one.

This was surprisingly snappy for your attitude thus far. I get how you play is how you play, but is there anything that's..annoying you? In the sense you lurkread what's going on and think we're on the wrong track.

I don't know, I haven't had much input otherwise, Glitch seems to have given up rather than trying to defend himself and people were waiting on Starbuck and now a Starbuck replacement.

[Insanoflex]

I don't buy a gunsmith not using his role N1.

I have limited shots, the result is less likely to be useful early, and, key point: I replaced in with 24 hours in the game and 97 pages in the night.

Also, you seem to be willing to clear peoplr off my investigation results, despite thinking I'm fake? How does that work?

[Insanoflex]

Glitch definitely gave up, and if I'm reading how he treated ABR they're clearly scum together. This goes against your result though Insano

Idk, I assumed people wanted glitch over ABR because ABR can be forced to protect tonight and then we'll know one way or another if he's real or not.

...apparently mafia doctors are a thing? Never heard of one of those before.

[Insanoflex]

I think we let town's deadness feed into our own sense of complacency, we went into day 4 pretty much without a plan of any sort. I certainly was less active than I would have been if I'd felt any sense of urgency at all. Was aiming for a desperation play on claims based on ABR flipping first, but things didn't work out that way. Credit to gamma for at least trying to keep things going.