Open 80 - Double Day Mafia (Game Over!)

[StrangerCoug]

Hi there! Just give me a read...

[StrangerCoug]

Whoa—30 pages.

Unvote

if necessary, because I need a big chunk of time to play catchup and I replaced into two games in close succession. My Wiki page should be straight now.

[StrangerCoug]

Damn megagame with its damn megaposts ><

This is all my poor brain has picked up, and I know these are both from Day 1.0. If you have any questions for me as to current cases, fire away.

Joubert, I don't understand the "obvious reasons" for voting dcorbe that you speak of in post #42, and the way I play Mafia, there's no obvious anything.

Vote: Joubert

Post #276, Knights of Cydonia? What the hell?

FoS: Knight of Cydonia

until you explain it.

Mod: The player list does not mark BlckKnght as having placed dcorbe.

[StrangerCoug]

Un-FoS: BlckKnight

pending my second read.

FaerieLord, I already read Day 1.5 once. This many posts is overwhelming, and it gave me a mental block. Anything about Knights of Cydonia you wish to mention while I'm at it?

[StrangerCoug]

Let's start with this:

I have seen this debate a few times, and my position is always the same. A townie who is not too good is still a townie. They are still a body that mafia needs to get lynched, NK or endgame. Killing off someone because they are not a good player is handing scum a free pass for the day.

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know you wanted fl kept around to confuse us for the next lynch, and the next, and the next.

This is a lame defense and comes off to me as you thinking forbiddanlight was scum merely because she was confusing.

It's basically a pile of one-liners. Only once do you refer to a genuine post you've made, and your so-called case is just a shoddy, one-liner PBPA. That's not a case, that's a PBPA, and trying to pass it off as one is a lie. And only scum need to lie.
LYNCH ALL LIARS!

The last time I checked, lynch all liars does not apply merely because you disagree over what something is. Major self-contradictions (e.g. claiming to be a vigilante, then a vanilla townie) will usually trigger LAL, and there's probably other things that will set it off too, but I see this as a stretch and an excuse.

FaerieLord, that is the crux of my whole case against you - no town should ever actively seek to lynch town, or have a motive to lynch town - as LlamaFluff said, its still one more body in the Mafia's way. By admitting you wanted to lynch forbiddan as town, you merely confirm your scumminess.

Unless I misquoted you (and you should really avoid posting your opinions in other people's quote boxes, even if you set them off—harder to read and make out what's yours or not), this and the first set of quotes don't make sense together to me. Could you please explain?

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP:

Un-FoS: BlckKnight

pending my second read.

That should have been an

Un-FoS: Knights of Cydonia

.

[StrangerCoug]

I think the votes on killa seven are justifiable seeing as 15 of his 28 posts other than his confirmation post are one-liners and only 10 of his posts go past one sentence.

gimbo allways acts like this.

This is meaningless without mentioning a meta.

gimbo, leed us to the scum boss.

I don't know what exactly to make of this, and the first thing I get is that somehow Gimbo/you have information that we don't. But how does he know that Gimbo/you know something we don't?

pity is for the weak.

This is absolute rubbish.

yo, can u not tell a fuckin joke when you see one? this is reaching and very weak.

In this post, K7 ignores vast quantities of an attack to pick on one weaker point.

his first "point" is utter bs, no need to pick on the rest of his corny logic.

I'd have to go back and look at the context of this post again (I was reading killa seven's posts in isolation when I was typing this post), but this still deserves an explanation. Why is the first point BS and the rest of it "corny logic"?

speaking of lurkers..

Bleh xP

Unvote: Joonster
Major HoS: killa seven

, with the intent to upgrade to a vote once I have a better idea of what everybody's talking about.

[StrangerCoug]

Would those be your #65 and #68 in isolation, Knight of Cydonia?

[StrangerCoug]

Will do.

Oh, and:

Unvote: Joonster

That should be an

Unvote: Joubert

. I confused him with a player in another game I'm in.

[StrangerCoug]

Post #751 was supposed to be what I had so far as for a response to your #750. Remember I'm going on each person a little bit at a time in no particular order.

It would be really nice to actually get a LoS from you. We have no clue so far really whats going on with you. So far you have voted Joubert and left that case when challenged, you have FoSed KoC and took that back for ??? and you have seemingly voted K7 but seem to be waiting on that for some reason.

Not enough information about this game has sunk into my head regarding everybody to do a full-fledged LoS, which is also why I'm hanging on to an official vote for killa seven (waiting for an explanation). Taking stuff back quickly is something I generally do when I've just replaced into a game, and once I have a better clue I will make better decisions in the game.

If I had to do an LoS based only on information that I've been able to absorb up to this point, you would be relatively low, and I believe you've done a good job cleaning Gimbo's slate. Top suspect is killa seven, and my current understanding of FaerieLord puts her in second place; however I want to take a look at the latter's case before saying anything about her.

[StrangerCoug]

So, K7's buggered off again. I think someone is trying to avoid the difficult questions by lurking.

That is what he does.

That's it ><

Vote: killa seven

[StrangerCoug]

vote manito

May I ask why you had to do that the post after the mod prodded him?

[StrangerCoug]

Don't do it right after the mod prods him ><

LlamaFluff, care to explain to killa seven what happened to me in Mini 604 after I voted for the player I asked the mod to prod? It's reminding me of this, and I'm too lazy to go back and check it.

[StrangerCoug]

great the new guy joined the best wagon to avoid conflict
your willin to join to avoid conflict, great nice vote scumbag.

Something here screams OMGUS, even though in my book it implies voting back. Attacking a player just for voting you, killa seven? You seem desperate trying to stay alive here.

I'll take a look at Corinthian when I get the chance. I know that I said I'd do FaerieLord next, and that's something I've yet to bother doing. I really don't want to lynch Manito right now since killa seven voted for him without giving a reason. If I had to make a guess as to the three scum, then killa seven, Corinthian, and FaerieLord are it.

[StrangerCoug]

Looking at Corinthian's posts, he seems to be overly defensive.

This is my least favorite post of his mostly one-liners:

God I hate you, Llama.

Me, Manito, and KoC have all gotten votes from you based on the idiotic idea that it's all right to vote for someone to pressure them into responding to you.

I refuse to respond to that kind of bullshit.

Tell me there isn't something wrong with refusing to give information.

Unvote: killa seven
Major HoS: killa seven
Vote: Corinthian

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Please prod Corinthian.

[StrangerCoug]

Firestarter, don't put your original words in other people's quote boxes, whether you set them off or not. It makes it harder to read.

[StrangerCoug]

This is non-equivocal, IMO...

Vote: K7

Care to give a reason?

[StrangerCoug]

Corinthian and killa seven are my top two suspects right now, and I do think there are similarities between them. I'd be surprised if they were both town. In fact,

HoS: killa seven

if I don't have one out on him already since I have a vote on Corinthian.

[StrangerCoug]

Joubert still hasn't answered #924 for me, and it's too soon to prod him.

[StrangerCoug]

That's it, I'm getting impatient. My #923 (#924 wasn't mine, contrary to my last post) still doesn't have an answer, and the fewer people we have with their thumbs up their butt and the more people we have discussing, the better.

Mod: Please prod Joubert.

[StrangerCoug]

Calm down, StrangerCoug, you'll see it's not a big deal and you'll realize you could have used your time more efficiently in the meanwhile. When I said "unequivocal", I was not referring to K7's situation, as you probably thought initialy. I was only refering to Armlx's previous post. He asked LaptopGun to clarify his last comment, but there was apparently nothing to clarify. Just reading the sentence was enough...

Sorry. I did indeed misunderstand you.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm tired of sitting here letting this game stagnate.

FoS: Everybody that's lurking right now.

I'm not going to bother naming names because I feel they know who they are.

We're still split on killa seven vs. Corinthian right now, and I agree that both are scummy. I ask everybody in this game: Which of those two do you feel is scummier: K7 or Corin?

SpyreX, what do you mean by "sniping", and could you please provide an example?

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP:

SpyreX, what do you mean by "sniping", and could you please provide an example?

Ignore both of these questions. I scrolled up and saw what you meant.

[StrangerCoug]

Also, if 5 people have K7 as their number one and think Corin is town, and 4 people have Corin as their number one and think K7 is town, but 9 people have FS as their number two, I would consider FS the better lynch. I don't know that this is the situation we have here, I'm just pointing out that a compromise is not as crazy of a suggestion as you make it out to be.

You know what? Something like this might prove interesting. If everyone can list their top three suspects, just copy-paste where the list stands and add on your top three. That way we can see if something like this really is happening or not, as im not really convinced it is. If everyone has a player as high up though, its something worth persuing.

armlx
Joubert
killa seven
FaerieLord
SpyreX
LlamaFluff -> Corin, Manito, KoC
Firestarter
CF Riot
Corinthian
LaptopGun
Knight of Cydonia
TheSweatpantsNinja
orangepenguin
Manito
StrangerCoug

The idea of a list sounds interesting to me. Here's what I have to add to it:

armlx
Joubert
killa seven
FaerieLord
SpyreX
LlamaFluff -> Corin, Manito, KoC
Firestarter
CF Riot
Corinthian
LaptopGun
Knight of Cydonia
TheSweatpantsNinja
orangepenguin
Manito
StrangerCoug -> Corinthian, killa seven, FaerieLord

The first two I believe I've talked about already. FL I'd have to look up again, but I do remember something not sitting well about her.

[StrangerCoug]

Actually, FaerieLord's posts in isolation don't give me much suspicion except about the forbiddanlight case, however, she hasn't posted since August 1, so

Mod: Please prod FaerieLord.

I'd ask to prod Corinthian too, but he says he's unavailable half the week, so I won't until late Wednesday or sometime Thursday if he doesn't show up.

[StrangerCoug]

And Joubert is suspicious of killa seven, FaerieLord, and Knights of Cydonia in that order, so it should be:

armlx -> Firestarter, CF Riot, K7
Joubert -> K7, FaerieLord, KoC
killa seven
FaerieLord -> Corin, Manito, Firestarter
SpyreX -> FaerieLord, Firestarter, K7
LlamaFluff -> Corin, Manito, KoC
Firestarter -> Corin, K7, Manito
CF Riot -> KoC, Firestarter, Manito
Corinthian - K7, FaerieLord, Firestarter
LaptopGun -> armlx, Corin, Joubert/KoC
Knight of Cydonia
TheSweatpantsNinja -> Corin, Firestarter, K7
orangepenguin -> K7, FaerieLord, KoC/Corin
Manito -> FaerieLord, Joubert or K7
StrangerCoug -> Corinthian, killa seven, FaerieLord

[StrangerCoug]

If anybody wants to get on my case for my deciding to

unvote: Corinthian

and

vote: killa seven

just because I suspect him along with nine other people, please do so now, as I'm tired of the waiting game and I'm not known for my patience anyway. 11:13 PM is not the time to muster up the willpower to go back and check what everybody said about the latter anyway.

[StrangerCoug]

Why did Llama feel the need to post a guess as to KoC's intentions

My first guess is he's as impatient to finish the day as I am xD We are on deadline, you know.

[StrangerCoug]

Unvote: killa seven

and switch back to a

Vote: Corinthian

because numbers mean nothing. They don't lie, but speculation can turn out to be wrong.

I know, lame reason, but so was the reason for switching the other way around. It, too, involved numbers.

God, I sound like I can't decide whether or not I want to be a conformist...

[StrangerCoug]

I still think killa seven could be scum, but after looking at both their posts in isolation, I do see k7 as more anti-town, but Corin more scummier, if that makes sense.

Would you be comfortable with clarifying this?

[StrangerCoug]

Stranger- "would you feel comfortable clarifying this"? Why did you phrase that so politely? Why not just ask "what do you mean?"

Because I'm allowed to be polite What is this, a semantics argument?

[StrangerCoug]

Prod me, SSF!

Oh, wait—you can't I just posted!

However,

mod: You give two people voting for Manito but list only one name.

[StrangerCoug]

CF Riot, Firestarter's posts in isolation give me mostly townie vibes. He switched two of his confirm votes, but I'll go ahead and dismiss that as a null tell. The only other thing I don't like about him off hand is his occasional megaposts.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: I am having technical difficulties with my Internet connection right now, and I'm posting from the library. I'm not going to call myself V/LA just yet, but if I take too long between posts, go ahead and replace me outright.

[StrangerCoug]

I bet scum from this game are really annoyed. 44 pages and they haven't even gotten a chance to talk to each other.

Isn't this a nightless game?

No. We simply have two days before we go to night.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: The technical difficulties mentioned in post #1116 have been resolved. Thanks.

[StrangerCoug]

I want to see updated 3 pick lists from LF, FS, KoC, TSN, and SC.

Mine are killa seven, Firestarter, and a toss-up between FaerieLord and LlamaFluff. I need a reread too, and 41 pages is a lot.

[StrangerCoug]

I still can't find an awful lot of useful posts by killa seven, and he's the other of the two people the town was split on lynching in Day 1.5.

Vote: killa seven

until I start seeing decent posts from this guy or I have a better person to go after, whichever happens first.

I hate Firestarter's confirming his vote on LlamaFluff solely for replacing Gimbo, even though I do agree that the last of the three has been very stupid, and I'm even using a euphemism for something else I thought of here. FS switched his vote, though.

FaerieLord I actually don't have a decent case on, so I'll remove her from my top three picks.

Even if I ignore Gimbo's case, LlamaFluff attempted to stop discussion about Corinthian to get people to vote him (which makes no sense) and FoS'd everybody not voting for either of killa seven or Corinthian, neither of which rubs right on my reread.

HoS: LlamaFluff

.

[StrangerCoug]

Even if I ignore Gimbo's case, LlamaFluff attempted to stop discussion about Corinthian to get people to vote him (which makes no sense) and FoS'd everybody not voting for either of killa seven or Corinthian, neither of which rubs right on my reread.

Give some examples of this behavior, please. And, with this, why are you voting for K7 over Llama when, of the two, you've actually said something solid (being the better person to go after).

#847 and #1084.

It's largely a lingering D1½ hunch why I'm still going after killa seven, but I will allow LlamaFluff a chance to defend those two posts before I switch the vote to him.

[StrangerCoug]

Unvote: killa seven

and switch back to a

Vote: Corinthian

because numbers mean nothing. They don't lie, but speculation can turn out to be wrong.

STRONG FOS SC

Weak reasoning to switch vote.

And you're not voicing an objection to this?

If anybody wants to get on my case for my deciding to

unvote: Corinthian

and

vote: killa seven

just because I suspect him along with nine other people, please do so now, as I'm tired of the waiting game and I'm not known for my patience anyway. 11:13 PM is not the time to muster up the willpower to go back and check what everybody said about the latter anyway.

[StrangerCoug]

@SC - 1084 was an attempt to see who would try and save Corin. I figured Corin partners that were not voting K7/Corin would jump the K7 wagon near the end of the day. This was a push to see if anyone would jump when threatened a bit. Corin being town nulled the information from this though it seems

This doesn't make an awful lot of sense to me. Why do you say you wanted to say who

would

try to save Corinthian when they effectively

already could have been

saving him by voting someone else? What about those people who genuinely thought both Corinthian and killa seven were town (which we now know is at least half true)? This sounds like you're trying to manipulate other players, and I don't like this.

Unvote: killa seven
FoS: killa seven

because he's still not being helpful enough to my liking

Vote: LlamaFluff

[StrangerCoug]

@SC - 1084 was an attempt to see who would try and save Corin. I figured Corin partners that were not voting K7/Corin would jump the K7 wagon near the end of the day. This was a push to see if anyone would jump when threatened a bit. Corin being town nulled the information from this though it seems

This doesn't make an awful lot of sense to me. Why do you say you wanted to say who

would

try to save Corinthian when they effectively

already could have been

saving him by voting someone else? What about those people who genuinely thought both Corinthian and killa seven were town (which we now know is at least half true)? This sounds like you're trying to manipulate other players, and I don't like this.

I think you are missing my point here. I thought Corin was scum and was pretty damn sure of it. The choice was quickly evolving into Corin or K7. There were people who were throwing away thier vote though on others that had no shot of getting lynched at all, which is why I put out that FoS. Using LTG as an example, he was voting armlx. By voting armlx, he would not be protecting Corin as much as he could. By voting someone else who has a close number of votes, he would be protecting Corin more, much like armlx did near the end of the day.

It was an attempt at manipulating the players who were not on either wagon to defend Corin. Given that he was town it was a futle effort, but if he was scum we would of been able to get better reads off the players who reacted when I made that move, which is what I was planning.

You cant save someone by throwing out a vote unless the day no lynches without a majority. You can save someone by jumping on another wagon. Anything else you dont understand about that move?

Not that I can think of, but this in combination with #847 doesn't look right.

[StrangerCoug]

Not that I can think of, but this in combination with #847 doesn't look right.

How? You really arent giving me anything that I can defend against here. 847 was three weeks before deadline, it was an attempt to further the wagon I was pushing as it seemed to be stalling out. The last post was a week to deadline trying to see if I could catch anyone jumping to defend Corin when I opened a window.

But seriously, you need to explain yourself better here then "it doesnt look right"

You're free to state your opinions about somebody and there's nothing wrong with agreeing with them, but as rude as this sounds, people can decide who's scummy without your help, thank you very much. Alone, #847 looks like you're trying to rush the day; it together with #1084 is why I'm accusing you of manipulation.

I'm not 100% sure what to make of the list (which was your idea) toward the end of 1.5, though. I'm bringing it up because I can think of how it can be relevant to this case.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm not 100% sure what to make of the list (which was your idea) toward the end of 1.5, though. I'm bringing it up because I can think of how it can be relevant to this case.

????? Ok, I dont get this, seriously. It seems like you want to use my list idea to make me scum but have no idea how to go about doing it, so are using it anyway? Either that or you want someone else to make the connection that then you can use to try and push my wagon.

It's not as big of an issue with me, but given you wanted Corinthian dead and that's what we ended up deciding on based on the list, it may come into play.

[StrangerCoug]

You know what, LlamaFluff, fine. You win this argument.

Unvote: LlamaFluff.

[StrangerCoug]

Hmmm...

Oh don't tell me you've reduced yourself to filler posts.

FoS: Joubert

[StrangerCoug]

Could you be more anti-town?

xD Interesting, but I don't know what to make of this.

[StrangerCoug]

Care to put your vote where your posts are?

It is. FS is probably the scummiest person on my list. FL and SC come after them.

Umm, no it's not. You're not voting currently.

You can suspect one person more than everybody else and still not have a vote out.

Minor FoS: CF Riot

[StrangerCoug]

The original "Care to put your vote where your posts are?" came from KoC not me. I was just pointing out to Arm that he thought his vote was on FS when it really wasn't. (It turns out I was the one who was wrong. I was going by the vote count which had missed his vote.)

Why is this FoS worthy?

I thought you were saying something along the lines of "this has to be true or else this isn't true". You were mistaken as to his vote, and I'm a forgiving person, so

un-FoS: CF Riot

.

[StrangerCoug]

I blame my inability to think straight at 3:55 AM, which is really when I answered your question.

[StrangerCoug]

Ah, of course. I forget you Yanks operate on Wrong Time.

Heh heh heh xD I'm on what Americans call Mountain Time (the most ignored time zone on the continent), which is usually seven hours behind you.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Please prod Joubert.

[StrangerCoug]

SpyreX it's hard at this point in the game but if FL was scum who do you think his partners would be?

SC so who do you think is scum?
FS so who do you think is scum?
armlx has your top 3 changed?

I'm not really sure anymore, but if Joubert just pops in and skedaddles again, I'm pressure voting him. I'm still looking at killa seven, though, and Knight of Cydonia's looking good too.

[StrangerCoug]

Ok so make a deal with me. I'm on the fence about both FL and K7. I've wavered towards town on both but can conceive either (or both) being scum. However I really don't like FS, and he's your number 2 anyways. Throw some support towards my FS wagon and based on how it goes I'll vote with you on either K7 or FL in the second half of today. (That means whichever you vote for, I will vote for the same. Not cast my vote on one or the other in spite of your vote.)

If yes revote anytime. If no, you can make your own proposal and I'll consider it.

I don't like the idea of this if only because CF Riot runs the risk of mistrusting SpyreX and the latter being scum. I can't exactly pin why else not right now, and that may be it.

[StrangerCoug]

StrangerCoug I asked you a question.

And I answered with the best I had. See post #1216.

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP: And you loaded it when you asked me the second time.

FoS: CF Riot

[StrangerCoug]

killa seven's still not being a helpful contributor as far as I know, and as LlamaFluff made clear, he's not the optimal play at this monent.

#1185 and #1191 by Knight of Cydonia come off wrong to me, but I'm not voting him for them because it's a gut feeling at this time.

As for the loaded question, CF Riot, you asked me who

are

the scum that time as opposed to who I

think

are the scum when you asked me originally. The only answer town can give to that answer is "I don't know", even though that doesn't mean they can't make educated guesses. Scum answering that exact same question truthfully (which, if they're smart, they will not) will spoil the game in doing so.

[StrangerCoug]

Is there a reason people seem to be completely ignoring my recent posts against KoC and manito?

Thanks for the reminder, and I just now went and looked at that post. I'll check both of them.

[StrangerCoug]

Quite frankly, m'dear, if you are town, I'd be almost as happy to see you go. You're doing nothing by playing this way other than helping the Mafia.

Which is why I don't worry as much about what he's saying. His vote is warranted, but I figured I'd point out the part where

he's stating that he'd be happy to see me go even as town.

That's NOT good, at all. But either way, I can't make much of it since my play has been horrid this game, so I just point it out so that it might be examined later.

I'm really glad you responded like this, forbiddan. Before, I had a 1% suspicion you might have been town. Now, it's somewhere around 0.00001%.
You've rather cleverly misinterpreted my post there. I said that I was pretty damn sure that you were scum, but that if you were town, you're doing us no help. I at no point said *bolded part*, I just stated that it makes no sense for a town player to do this, since it only helps the Mafia, and that if you were town, it wouldn't be a loss. I never said I was lynching you without caring if you were town or scum, which is what you've tried to imply.

I hate these two posts, especially in combination. I don't like how the wording of the first one comes off. Looking at them, yes, it does appear that forbiddanlight attempted to strawman Knight of Cydonia, but his defense doesn't match up well with the vibes I get from the first post.

Yeah, look, fl, we all know you're scum, or the most retarded townie ever, so stop trying to throw crap out there to try and get a townie lynch day 1.5.

This is confirmation bias.

Also, just one for the rest of the town to consider - look who leapt to FL's defence as soon as heat came down: Llama and CF Riot. That makes three. Could be perfectly innocent, but if FL flips scum, as I'm sure he would, we might be onto something.

More confirmation bias with guilt by association added to the mix.

Vote: Knight of Cydonia

I'm not getting anything scummy from Manito's posts in isolation, but LlamaFluff's case on him here still makes sense to me.

[StrangerCoug]

Psh. SC you caught me. Vote away.

Tee hee I just voted Knight of Cydonia, though, but you have made yourself my #2 suspect.

Plus I already bought Spyre's vote.

"Bought"?

[StrangerCoug]

I have a much stronger scum read off KoC then I do off FS.

Could you explain please?

MORE INTENSE THAN THE TIME I FORGOT HOW TO SIT DOWN

Firestarter - 4 (CF Riot, armlx, SpyreX, Knight of Cydonia)
FaerieLord - 2 (Manito, orangepenguin)
Knight of Cydonia - 2 (LlamaFluff, StrangerCoug)
StrangerCoug - 1 (TheSweatpantsNinja)

Not Voting - Joubert, killa seven, FaerieLord, Firestarter

13 alive, 7 to lynch.

-Mod

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Please prod TheSweatpantsNinja.

[StrangerCoug]

FoS: killa seven

for not stating a reason to vote Knight of Cydonia.

[StrangerCoug]

FoS'ing someone for not giving a vote reason the first time ≠ chainsaw defense. I had a legitimate concern, killa seven. You gave me nothing to look at in that post in terms for reasoning. Saying "Vote KoC for the same reasons I had Day 1.5" or something along those lines would have been OK by me. A post number reference would have done better since I then have a place to look, and restating the reason puts it right there in front of my nose. Because I see you as overreacting and claiming I'm chainsaw defending Knight of Cydonia when I'm actually

voting

him, my FoS on you stands.

[StrangerCoug]

SC - do you want any more proof that K7 is a massive anti-town scum player? He's accusing anyone he can of being scum, or chainsawing... oh, and if you missed it, his "case" against me was actually him just quoting all of my points in my PbPA of him, and saying "This is bullshit" or "Lol, can't u take a joke d00d?"

Sure! Why not?

[StrangerCoug]

This and this, right?

Unvote: Knight of Cydonia

, by the way.

[StrangerCoug]

killa seven, while I'm waiting, I want you to explain this for me:

Kotc wrote..

First minor contradiction here. First he said "Gimbo is always like this". Now, I'm willing to bet most of hte games you've played with him, he wasn't scum.
Now you're basically trying to pressure him into leading hte town to the Godfather. Huh?

^^^^
yo, can u not tell a fuckin joke when you see one? this is reaching and very weak.

You're calling one point of my PBPA so far "weak", and completely ignoring the rest. *head-desk* Worst. Selective quoting. EVER. You then try to put me and FaerieLord forward as a scum pair, despite the fact we've been at each other's throats for ever since the lynch... and you accuse ME of reaching?

[StrangerCoug]

Here?

[StrangerCoug]

I unvoted pending Knight of Cydonia's new PBPA on killa seven, the latter of which I still suspect.

[StrangerCoug]

Well, I still like my vote where it is. I still think k7 is acting scummy, or atleast anti-town.

I fail to see how a KoC vote is anti-town.

I fail to see how you interpreted orangepenguin as saying a KoC vote is anti-town!

[StrangerCoug]

I understand now.

[StrangerCoug]

OP why are you voting me? you have lurked way worse then me im sure.
Ill do a PBPA on you as well, its funny i keep forgetting your in this game.

OP

,

why are you voting

for

me?

Y

ou have lurked way worse

than

I have

. I

'

ll do a PBPA on you as well, it

'

s funny I keep forgetting you

're

in this game.

You're welcome

Is this really necessary?

[StrangerCoug]

Thanks for the reminders, armlx and LlamaFluff. I have a PBPA I'm waiting for.

[StrangerCoug]

And the game grinds to a tedious halt. It seems like about 6 or 7 players are doing all the talking, and the rest are sliding along in the background.

Well, you have me playing the waiting game...

[StrangerCoug]

I will as soon as I get that PBPA of killa seven that Knight of Cydonia said he'd do. Don't rush me please.

[StrangerCoug]

KoC and killa seven are both on the suspicious side on my mind, but I can't really decide on one or the other. If I could do two votes, I'd have them on them both, but I can't. Essentially, yes, I'm leaving my vote idle so I can decide which of two evils I should go after.

I don't like to be rushed period. If I have a deadline, then I'll keep that in mind, but it's easier on my thinking when I feel like I have to act in haste. You are making me feel like I have to act in haste. I'm not known for my patience, but this is one of those times where I feel it's better to be.

killa seven, when KoC does a PBPA on you, I want to know what you have to say on both the PBPA and KoC himself.

[StrangerCoug]

Well, darn it,

vote: Knight of Cydonia

until he convinces me to move it! There! You happy!?

I'm confused as to the lack of an SC wagon.

I'm confused as to why you waited to contribute until after the mod started looking for someone to replace you, and even then, you're not adding anything new.

Minor FoS: TheSweatpantsNinja.

[StrangerCoug]

It seems like the you-must-vote-or-else-I-suspect-you syndrome is taking epidemic proportions...

Thanks for pointing that out, because I know at least a couple people here guilty of that ><

HILLARY FOR PREZ

Firestarter - 4 (CF Riot, armlx, SpyreX, Knight of Cydonia)
Knight of Cydonia - 3 (LlamaFluff, killa seven, StrangerCoug)
FaerieLord - 2 (Manito, orangepenguin)
StrangerCoug - 1 (TheSweatpantsNinja)
killa seven - 1 (Joubert)
Manito - 1 (FaerieLord)

Not Voting - Firestarter

13/7.

-Mod

[StrangerCoug]

Well, the reason I was getting replaced was because I forgot about the game.

You forgot about the game... *scoffs* So you forgot about being prodded too?

[StrangerCoug]

You forgot about the game... *scoffs* So you forgot about being prodded too?

Dude, feel free to check my activity. I didn't post on-site at all in between August 27 and September 1. So when I came back and had eight games to check, this one slipped through my cracks.

OK, understood.

Un-FoS: TheSweatpantsNinja

.

[StrangerCoug]

Knight of Cydonia, my vote's not going anywhere until I see that PBPA you said you'd do of killa seven.

[StrangerCoug]

[On the KoC wagon there is me who wont let go, OP whos LoS is KoC/FL, K7 who looks pretty locked in and SC who I dont know where he is going, and would probally be the only one to quickly transfer over to the FS wagon.

I see some case on Firestarter, but not a lot. I owe another look at him, but that's after I take the bus home.

[StrangerCoug]

Firestarter had those confirm votes he decided to switch, the one on LlamaFluff I don't like, but I personally don't see anything else wrong. Then again, I'm a skimmer...

Happy birthday, CF Riot.

[StrangerCoug]

#1425 and #1426 are of note to me. It's interesting how CF Riot says three of the four people Firestarter suspects are voting the latter (I'm the exception as I don't have a major case on Firestarter), while Firestarter responds by saying CF Riot voted someone, switched, switched back, and voted him twice while admitting he had no case on him.

I want to look at CF Riot when I get the chance.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm not saying you don't have a case on him, he is. If you're willing to present it anyway, go ahead.

By saying three of the four people Firestarter suspects is voting him, you present him as OMGUSy. In addition, I would like to know why you don't understand him pairing you with Knight of Cydonia.

[StrangerCoug]

I just wanted to see what I could get on both of you. I'm not taking sides on something I'm not adequately informed on.

[StrangerCoug]

That everybody he suspects except one is voting him. I'd switch just for kicks, but the inside of me says that being unsportsmanlike on purpose is scummy.

[StrangerCoug]

I just wanted to see what I could get on both of you. I'm not taking sides on something I'm not adequately informed on.

What other information are you waiting on?

I was probing the CF Riot/Firestarter case. Knight of Cydonia still owes me a PBPA on killa seven, though.

I'd say you've got plenty, SC. You seem to be saying you're up for an FS lynch, but voting the most popular wagon currently, anyway.

Very well then, I will

unvote

you and

vote Firestarter

for OMGUS. I have more information on him than you and killa seven.

[StrangerCoug]

That out of the way, SC you are vote hopping a lot.

I am aware that I'm doing something along those lines, and that tends to happen when I'm not reasonably sure of scum.

I do like your post, BTW.

shift-key broke

Firestarter - 4 (CF Riot, SpyreX, Knight of Cydonia, StrangerCoug)
Knight of Cydonia - 3 (LlamaFluff, killa seven, orangepenguin)
FaerieLord - 1 (Manito)
StrangerCoug - 1 (TheSweatpantsNinja)
killa seven - 1 (Joubert)
Manito - 1 (FaerieLord)
CF Riot - 1 (Firestarter)

Not Voting - armlx

13/7

-Mod

[StrangerCoug]

@ SC.. what info on me do you have...

OMGUS

???

What are your cases on the people you suspect?

And your last post makes no sense at all... You say your unsure of who's scum, yet you change your vote to me at the drop of a hat, or at CFR's will....

It's a defense to my vote-hopping. Multiple people have been fighting over my attention over the course of Day 2.0.

[StrangerCoug]

That kind of was a response since you asked if I accused you of OMGUS and I asked you to prove to me otherwise.

[StrangerCoug]

TSN: Who's 2nd scummiest after SC to you?

Firestarter.

Why Firestarter?

[StrangerCoug]

as Ive said, if it was OMGUS, fair enough...

Then why did you question OMGUS being my case against you?

I WON!

Firestarter - 4 (CF Riot, SpyreX, Knight of Cydonia, StrangerCoug)
Knight of Cydonia - 3 (LlamaFluff, killa seven, orangepenguin)
FaerieLord - 1 (Manito)
StrangerCoug - 1 (TheSweatpantsNinja)
killa seven - 1 (Joubert)
Manito - 1 (FaerieLord)
CF Riot - 1 (Firestarter)

Not Voting - armlx

13/7

-Mod

[StrangerCoug]

So in other words, you're lurking.

Minor FoS: Knight of Cydonia

for strawmanning FaerieLord. If she's lost, though, it would be best for her to ask about what she's confused about.

[StrangerCoug]

Minor FoS: Knight of Cydonia for strawmanning FaerieLord. If she's lost, though, it would be best for her to ask about what she's confused about.

FaerieLord = he.

The little icon below FaerieLord avatar says FL is female.

[StrangerCoug]

Just to clear this up, i have chatted with FarieLord in scum chat, and he is indeed a male, im guessing everyone assuming he was a female made him change his gender icon to female.

My old avatar has gotten me mistaken for a female on occasion because of the long hair and purple-lined vest in it. The reason I changed it, however, was not because of the gender confusion but because I no longer wanted a cartoony avatar on this site.

And Llama, your Emperor's New Groove avatar was _way_ cooler.

Of the three avatars I've seen LlamaFluff with, that one fit him best. Don't ask me why he's using his current one.

OK, enough out-of-context discussion. Back to the game.

CFR makes a very valid point.

How so?

The issue is not the lack of posts and more the fact that the majority of your recent posts being devoid of real content on top of that.

Whom are you addressing here?

[StrangerCoug]

IF FS is scum, who is there partner? Same for KoC? Because if people are voting for somebody who could be a likely partner, they could probably switch to the wagon, and lynch the scum with the most votes. I personally don't think it's LIKELY that BOTH FS and KOC is scum though, not saying they aren't partners, but with 13 alive.

I don't play Mafia by guessing who is scumbuddies with an unconfirmed. It's easier (for me) to think of everybody in isolation of everybody else for at least the first one or two days.

I'm not saying that it's wrong to have more than one suspect, but you simply can't figure out who is scum with who without dead scum.

[StrangerCoug]

you simply can't figure out who is scum with who without dead scum.

That's not exactly right, but the idea is close. It's weak to say, "those two agree a lot, they're both scum," but it is reasonable to say, "X is scummy, and Y is defending him with bad logic, so they could be buddies."

That actually makes some sense.

[StrangerCoug]

Pfft. I asked for an updated PbPA on killa seven from Knight of Cydonia. I don't remember seeing it. Deadline's looming, and I don't see a Firestarter lynch in this half of the day.

Unvote: Firestarter
Vote: Knight of Cydonia

THIS IS LYNCH MINUS ONE.

[StrangerCoug]

Vote: FS

FoS: Orange Penguin

Wanted to know who'd be a good scumpartner for FS? Hint, its you.

What makes you say that?

[StrangerCoug]

SC who do you think is scum?

I'm still looking at Firestarter and killa seven.

MY HEART WILLLLLLLLL GO ONNNNNN

SpyreX - 2 (Firestarter, orangepenguin)
Firestarter - 1 (SpyreX)
Manito - 1 (LlamaFluff)
FaerieLord - 1 (Manito)

Not voting - armlx, Joubert, killa seven, FaerieLord, CF Riot, TheSweatpantsNinja, StrangerCoug

12 alive, 7 to lynch.

-Mod

[StrangerCoug]

Now, you mention that I said I wasn't surprised. I wasn't. It was obvious that wagon came on too fast from too many directions with no new reasons for the lynch for me to think it was a sure-fire scumhit. However, was KoC scummy? Sure was. Would KoC being alive have helped? Only as a body, but more as a perfect distraction for the scum on later days - we still have some eggs we can break for this omlete and I have no problem nailing scummy players.

So, with days left before the deadline, you went ahead and hammered someone you would not have been surprised to flip town...

Why would you do that seeing as the first 3 hits were town, and now find ourselves meandering closer to a scum win???

o.O

I didn't exactly like his power hammer. I did warn that it was lynch minus one, and I had my suspicions on Knight of Cydonia. Where, however, are SpyreX's suspicions of Knight of Cydonia?

Vote: SpyreX

Vote strangercoug.

The continued lack of attention on him continues to bother me, and plus, he jumped on an inexplicable quicklynch with nary a hint of reasoning.

Voting me because I am not getting the attention you want on me does not make an awful lot of sense in and of itself. I didn't give an awful lot of reasoning, but it's there. Knight of Cydonia, when I was undecided between him and killa seven, said he'd do another PbPA of the latter. It never happened. I had other reasons to suspect Knight of Cydonia, but I was too lazy to go look for him.

SpyreX is getting a lot of attention because he didn't explain jack why he hammered. You commented on his abrupt hammer. Why are you trying to pass the blame on him to me, when I gave sufficient warning that I was the L-1 vote on him?

And your case on me other than that is what again?

FoS: TheSweatpantsNinja

[StrangerCoug]

- StrangerCoug: Did you really just, in response to TSPN, FOSOMGUS and use the justification for that as "Well, someone ELSE did the scummy thing I did too?"

I'm attacking TheSweatpantsNinja's vote reason as being weak. Seriously, do you vote people just because you want the town's attention on them? Sorry, not working. Present a decent case first.

Granted, I probably could have done a better job of justifying my vote on Knight of Cydonia than I did, but once again, it's there.

In addition, did you say you were looking at Firestarter and K7 today (after my hammer) then move your vote to me for the selfsame reason (also using my not having suspicion of KoC (which I did) for part of it)?

Did I ever say that anybody other than Firestarter and killa seven were definitely town?

[StrangerCoug]

I'm attacking TheSweatpantsNinja's vote reason as being weak. Seriously, do you vote people just because you want the town's attention on them? Sorry, not working. Present a decent case first.

Granted, I probably could have done a better job of justifying my vote on Knight of Cydonia than I did, but once again, it's there.

I agree that TSPN's case is weak. However, part of your defense was what -I- did in regards to the hammer. That was what got me: you're voting me for what TSPN is voting you for and don't apparently see the parallel.

You gave zero reasoning for your hammer vote while I made an attempt at a reasoning for my L-1 vote. I even warned that I put Knight of Cydonia at L-1 so the town would speak up if they weren't ready for a hammer (even though it was deadline and not much if anything could be done to save KoC).

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Please prod killa seven.

[StrangerCoug]

And your case on me other than that is what again?

What I wrote yesterday (er, yesterhalfday) is just as true today.

Then remind us when you place the vote, damn it!

Plus the misrepresentation of "I voted for you because I wanted to get attention on you."

You brought up my not getting the attention you wanted before you mentioned the vote on Knight of Cydonia, which made the former look like part of your case on me. Be careful doing that please.

[StrangerCoug]

You brought up my not getting the attention you wanted before you mentioned the vote on Knight of Cydonia, which made the former look like part of your case on me. Be careful doing that please.

I don't see how anyone paying attention to the game could possibly be confused when I went after the same person I had gone after yesterday. One would think

you

would recall that I had gone after you, so your "confusion" seems hard to believe.

Want to know why it's hard to believe?

Because confusion and ambiguity are not the same thing. I'm also not attacking you for the former, but I am concerned about the latter.

Reread your own post and arrange the vote and the two sentences that go with it in order of importance. If the vote and my lack of attention are right next to each other, then that's the problem.

That didn't really help me much but it might later.

Vote: StrangerCoug

.

Something is not right but I can't figure it out yet. I think we should lynch someone that was on the KoC wagon today.

If that's what you want to do, then why me in particular besides gut?

Why, in your opinion do the lynches fail?

Your scum buddies don't join.

FoS: armlx

for tunnel vision.

[StrangerCoug]

If the vote and my lack of attention are right next to each other, then that's the problem.

What? No. Is there now a rule that "most important reasons" must be next to votes?

Not a hard and fast rule, no, but it'd still be nice if your whole post was in some logical order.

I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel. I'm trying to make sense of why you brought up the lack of attention on me before you justified the vote when the vote is at the top of your post.

A rule that you must restate your entire case the next day?

I never said that you had to per se; I'm just the kind of person that needs reminders. I understand "see post X", for example. Hence this part:

And your case on me other than that is what again?

I remembered that you had one, just not what it was. You made no reference to it when you voted me for this half of the day until I asked you to.

[StrangerCoug]

I am at a loss of words, SpyreX. I simply cannot believe the amount of damning evidence against Firestarter in your #1657.

I know what I am, but seeing as I'm sold about him, I'm left with one and only one option.

Unvote: SpyreX
Vote: Firestarter

[StrangerCoug]

Thank you SpyreX for spelling it all out for us. You are our hero and we will give you dozens of fair maidens and have a holiday in your name.

Unvote, vote spyrex.

L-1.

? Is this some kinda trick Mr. Man? Applauding me then VOTING for me? Why I never.

That, plus he put you at L-5, not L-1.

[StrangerCoug]

I thought that was what you meant. Be careful next time.

[StrangerCoug]

We need a mod in here, STAT

STAT?

[StrangerCoug]

*sigh* So much for that. The only suspect I still have in mind is for semantics, as it's played out Day 2.5. I'm also too lazy to reread 68 pages.

I don't know of any good places to start =/

[StrangerCoug]

I know that much, but this is not a situation where I'm crazy enough to vote myself.

[StrangerCoug]

I don't think I have a vote out, but I'll still

unvote

just in case.

LlamaFluff makes me want to look at Manito, so I'll do that now.

[StrangerCoug]

OK, Manito's posts that I personally don't like. Yes, these are all from Day 1.0.

I think the obvious reason he's speaking of is the fact that dcorbe is kind of a jerk?

This is an ad hominem.

pity is for the weak.

Gee, that doesn't sound scummy at all

You're pretty brutal killa.

I'm with Spyrex on this one,

FoS: Killa

I'm not keen on changing my random vote until more scumminess is demonstrated unequivocally...

I have reason to believe that this is sarcasm, but the vote here is still weak.

Spyrex, you hit the nail on the head on that note - no one who is town would imply the possibility that they are scum.

Unvote

Vote: Forbiddanlight

Another weak vote. Wishy-washy, aren't we?

[StrangerCoug]

No, those just stood out the most.

[StrangerCoug]

It's kind of weird that LlamaFluff has been on every lynch and Manito hasn't been on a lynch at all. I see the case on Manito, but LlamaFluff seems a bit off because he switched to the guy about to be lynched on... if I count correctly, four occasions if you count Gimbo's hammer. He's consistantly been on a crusade to get Manito lynched, however, so I believe LlamaFluff to be town. I'll buy his case and

vote Manito

.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm not sure how this hasn't been brought up by ANYONE in detail:

It's kind of weird that LlamaFluff has been on every lynch and Manito hasn't been on a lynch at all. I see the case on Manito, but LlamaFluff seems a bit off because he switched to the guy about to be lynched on... if I count correctly, four occasions if you count Gimbo's hammer. He's consistantly been on a crusade to get Manito lynched, however, so I believe LlamaFluff to be town. I'll buy his case and vote Manito.

This logic hurts me. And follow me here:
1.) Every lynch we've had has been town.

I'm well aware of that. Your point?

I'm going to rearrange your points slightly so we don't have a big semantics argument again:

2.) SC says LF has been on every lynch and that he

switched

to them.

5.) SC is wrong about LF (he was the first vote on two of the wagons).

So I counted wrong. Kindly point me to where he's first on the eventual lynch, please.

3.) SC says Manito hasn't been on any lynches.

4.) SC is wrong about Manito.

#4 has actually already been brought up by somebody after I made that statement. If I'm not mistaken once again, Manito was on the Day 2.5 lynch?

6.) SC says LF has been "consistently on a crusade to get Manito lynched".

7.) Bonus Points - LF has been after Manito for doing #6 to FL as being scummy (which, to a degree it is).

It's kind of odd that you turn an attack on me about my incorrect statements about LlamaFluff into an attack on LlamaFluff himself. Not scummy in my book, though, but it's something that's sticking out.

[StrangerCoug]

SpyreX, if your case is essentially my failure to pay much attention, then go ahead. I'm too lazy to go back and look through stuff. I usually play as I go. I've thought of replacing out because of my playing so poorly, but that's pretty much chicken on my part.

I don't see much of a case on LlamaFluff, though.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm going to

unvote Manito

at the moment. It's either him or LlamaFluff that I want to go after, but I really don't know which. I highly doubt two scum would bus each other the way LlamaFluff and Manito are going at each other, but I'm not convinced they're both town at the moment.

[StrangerCoug]

As I think I said, I don't think LlamaFluff vs. Manito is town vs. town, but I'm going to voice my thoughts right now. I'll build on this later and probably vote one of them.

It looks to me that Manito's case on LlamaFluff is that he's pushing mislynches and being hypocritical. It seems to me that LlamaFluff is accusing Manito of craplogic, but I need to double check.

I don't like the fact that Manito straight up called killa seven LlamaFluff's scumbuddy. I read "so and so is scum" without "probably", "most likely", "I think", etc. and think one of three things: the person saying it is the cop with a guilty result, which is impossible in this game; the person saying it is scum him- or herself and would know this, but I highly doubt a smart scum player would out his or her group like that since it's essentially saying that killa seven, LlamaFluff, and Manito are the scum trio; or the person saying it has tunnel vision, which is plausible but I have doubts about given Manito's evidence. I'm not saying they're the only three possibilities, but they're the first three that usually come to my mind when people do that.

[StrangerCoug]

@SC - What kind of point are you trying to make, exactly? Did you actually read my posts? I've given well supported evidence, evidence that eliminates 99.9999% of my doubt.

That's actually why I hesitated—and still hesitate—to call you tunnel-visioned.

This actually reminds me of the "obvscum" thread I made in Mafia Discussion. I don't know for sure what it is, but I think it's the fact that straight up calling someone scum is not as objectionable when you have evidence to back yourself up and that the same applies to using the term "obvscum".

I'm sorry that I didn't use words like "probably" or "most likely" - usually when you're as sure as I am, you don't. I'll reference you to another recent case, where another player said "so and so is scum" without "probably", "most likely", and "I think" - Spyrex's case (1657) against Firestarter states, at the end

Firestarter is scum. SC is a scum partner.

No probably, no most likely, no I thinks about FS and

you

, yet you said nothing about it?

To which you responded in 1663:

I am at a loss of words, SpyreX. I simply cannot believe the amount of damning evidence against Firestarter in your #1657.

I know what I am, but seeing as I'm sold about him, I'm left with one and only one option.

Unvote: SpyreX
Vote: Firestarter

I was paying too much attention to how SpyreX said Firestarter was scummy to heed much notice to SpyreX calling me Firestarter's scumbuddy, but if I did, I'd probably have yelled at him for calling two unconfirmed players scumbuddies, something else I really don't like.

[StrangerCoug]

Since I have more reason to believe LlamaFluff is scummier than Manito given the former's contradictions and I see little if any case on the latter, I think I'm justified if I

vote LlamaFluff

right now.

[StrangerCoug]

More SC lynch? Did anyone else notice him try to find yet another wagon to jump on?

Hey, Manito and LlamaFluff are the big standouts and I intend to have one of them lynched, OK?

[StrangerCoug]

TheSweatpantsNinja, if your opinion is that LlamaFluff and Manito are both town (which I don't believe), then I'd like to hear how you came about that based on their actions.

[StrangerCoug]

Anything new for me besides that?

[StrangerCoug]

OK, answers it enough.

[StrangerCoug]

Why armlx over SpyreX?

[StrangerCoug]

The FL vote where I mention how he contradicts his own meta with a changed meta then flip flops more or less again? Where he casts the deciding vote D1.5 and then does nothing?

My guess is that he means in general.

[StrangerCoug]

The game has stagnated for a day or two.

Agreed xP

Since I'm one of the objects of suspicion, are there any questions for me that I haven't answered yet (that includes both new questions that you may think of and questions I may have forgotten about)?

[StrangerCoug]

@SC - I dont think you have really explained your vote on me yet. Reasons for it?

I believe I've brought up you being hypocritical.

[StrangerCoug]

Heh. I could have sworn you contradicted yourself somewhere, LlamaFluff, but I'm having a hard time finding it right now. I might have mistaken it for you simply being incorrect about Manito being in more than one game when this is the only one.

I did notice where you're pushing for a lynch a little more than my liking, though, but I also see you backing up your suspicions of the people you're pushing.

I see where Manito calls you bossy, however. Take a look at your #627:

Corin needs to respond to my 392
Manito needs to respond to my 576
K7 needs to do something productive
BlckKnght needs to do something period
People needs to not be voting FL
People need to be voting Corin
FS/Armix need to make some sense
Joubert, K7 and BK need to vote

I haven't found a defense to this, but maybe I overlooked it.

Yes, both of us have addressed #847, but it's still going here so people can look at it:

less talking about Corin and more voting Corin would be a very good thing to do here

In fact, #1153–#1155 is where we discuss this post:

You really arent giving me anything that I can defend against here. 847 was three weeks before deadline, it was an attempt to further the wagon I was pushing as it seemed to be stalling out. The last post was a week to deadline trying to see if I could catch anyone jumping to defend Corin when I opened a window.

You're free to state your opinions about somebody and there's nothing wrong with agreeing with them, but as rude as this sounds, people can decide who's scummy without your help, thank you very much.

*shrug* I tend to be an agressive player. I already said this a few times and im not sure if you dont get it or just choosing not to listen. 847 was trying to make people follow through with the talk springing up about Corin being scum. It was not intended to say "Lets lynch Corin this page for serious d00ds!!1! lolz", which is what you keep making it out to be.

#1084:

small FoS

FL, K7, CRF, manito, LTG

With an approaching deadline all of you are clinging to people who honestly wont get lynched unless they admit to being scum. What are your stances on K7 and Corin, and which one is more likely scum?

Which is defended in #1148 and #1155:

1084 was an attempt to see who would try and save Corin. I figured Corin partners that were not voting K7/Corin would jump the K7 wagon near the end of the day. This was a push to see if anyone would jump when threatened a bit. Corin being town nulled the information from this though it seems

1084 WAS me trying to manipulate people to draw out a partner of Corin. You seemed to just ignore my entire last post about this for some reason, I am admitting to it being manipulation and you are just saying "yeah thats scummy" while ignoring my reasoning for the move.

In any event, it's for stuff already addressed. If I catch anything on my own, I'll give you a heads up.

[StrangerCoug]

I still dont get why you are voting me. Its because you got mixed up in a game and thought that I contridicted myself and I didnt origionally, which is now proved false.

I was actually trying to see if I could find what Manito was referencing about you on my own, but didn't catch it.

I agree it's not pro-town of me to keep a vote without really knowing why anymore, so the only acceptable course of action is for me to

unvote

you, but I still intend to get rid of one of you and Manito today.

[StrangerCoug]

I still plan on one of Manito and LlamaFluff dying today; however, I do see SpyreX's case and have him as a suspect as well.

[StrangerCoug]

I still plan on one of Manito and LlamaFluff dying today; however, I do see SpyreX's case and have him as a suspect as well.

Do I really need to explain this? Seriously, you want to lynch me tomorrow, FINE... but this has just gotten out of hand. (Hint, look at the votes on me RIGHT before this is said).

Operative word in my post: plan. Which implies that if, for some reason neither a Manito lynch nor a LlamaFluff lynch are viable today, you are my other suspect of the day and I can push for your lynch today too if you rise above both of those people.

[StrangerCoug]

"If neither of the people who I have been flipflopping on and honestly haven't given reasons for thinking are scum (yet said one is scum) and somehow flipped my vote around don't managed to get the rope I will happily jump onto the new bandwagon."

Way to twist my words, scumbag. For the last time, LlamaFluff and Manito are my primary suspects of the day, but I've also been looking at you. You ignored what I just said in your "interpretation" of my intentions by making it look like I'm not going to get after you until day 3.5.

Let me make my case on both Manito and LlamaFluff clear.

LlamaFluff:

For a moment, I thought he was hypocritical. When I could find no such thing by looking at his posts in isolation, I presented his bossiness, and he responded by saying that I agreed with his stance. Because he caught me on a technicality, I unvoted him.

Manito:

Part my interpreting LlamaFluff's case against Manito as for craplogic, part gut.

There's plenty of room for you on this list. In fact, you honestly should be already. Because I haven't focused a lot of attention on you, I've been affording you a lot of leniency. I'm not doing it anymore. Think before you act—you are not immune to my wrath.

[StrangerCoug]

Wow, SC.

Angry much?

I'm aggressive, I have a mean streak, and I'm not afraid to show either.

[StrangerCoug]

You're on!

[StrangerCoug]

If I had to do an LoS based only on information that I've been able to absorb up to this point, you would be relatively low, and I believe you've done a good job cleaning Gimbo's slate. Top suspect is killa seven, and my current understanding of FaerieLord puts her in second place; however I want to take a look at the latter's case before saying anything about her.

So, FL is second, but he wants to look before he says anything. Fine.

Nothing wrong with this post, I agree.

I'll take a look at Corinthian when I get the chance. I know that I said I'd do FaerieLord next, and that's something I've yet to bother doing. I really don't want to lynch Manito right now since killa seven voted for him without giving a reason. If I had to make a guess as to the three scum, then killa seven, Corinthian, and FaerieLord are it.

Still hasn't looked, more than willing to toss her in as the scum group though.

I claim misguided townie here.

Actually, FaerieLord's posts in isolation don't give me much suspicion except about the forbiddanlight case, however, she hasn't posted since August 1, so Mod: Please prod FaerieLord.

I'd ask to prod Corinthian too, but he says he's unavailable half the week, so I won't until late Wednesday or sometime Thursday if he doesn't show up.

Well, I guess that counts as looking into.. right? I mean he has suspicion, but doesn't say why, but I guess its there.

Note the word "except". I said the forbiddanlight case was what set me off on what was otherwise who, at that point, looked pro-town from his posts.

Mine are killa seven, Firestarter, and a toss-up between FaerieLord and LlamaFluff. I need a reread too, and 41 pages is a lot.

...time passes...

Minor FoS: Knight of Cydonia for strawmanning FaerieLord. If she's lost, though, it would be best for her to ask about what she's confused about.

To the defense!

Not sure with what you're trying to incriminate with those posts here.

And then we are brought up to snuff. FaeireLord: Always the bridesmaid, but never the bride. Now, for a day, or even half a day.. sure. This long? Questionable. More than once there have been wagons on FL and SC has always been there to be suspicious... but never a vote on one of his top three.

Why would someone do this you may ask? Well, its always nice to put a scumbuddy on the list so that if they get chanked you can jump on and say see, I KNEW something was off.

I'm not denying that bussing is a scumtell, but something about the question is setting off my WIFOM-meter.

Looking at Corinthian's posts, he seems to be overly defensive.

This is my least favorite post of his mostly one-liners:

God I hate you, Llama.

Me, Manito, and KoC have all gotten votes from you based on the idiotic idea that it's all right to vote for someone to pressure them into responding to you.

I refuse to respond to that kind of bullshit.

Tell me there isn't something wrong with refusing to give information.

Unvote: killa seven
Major HoS: killa seven
Vote: Corinthian

Vote goes on Corinthian in the day that shall not be named. For the above post and being overly defensive.

And voting somebody for denying information and being overly defensive is scummy because?

If anybody wants to get on my case for my deciding to unvote: Corinthian and vote: killa seven just because I suspect him

along with nine other people

, please do so now, as I'm tired of the waiting game and I'm not known for my patience anyway. 11:13 PM is not the time to muster up the willpower to go back and check what everybody said about the latter anyway.

LEAP TO THE CLOUDS

I did expect to get some rap for that, but like LlamaFluff if I remember correctly, I wanted to finish the day.

Unvote: killa seven and switch back to a Vote: Corinthian because numbers mean nothing. They don't lie, but speculation can turn out to be wrong.

I know, lame reason, but so was the reason for switching the other way around. It, too, involved numbers.

God, I sound like I can't decide whether or not I want to be a conformist

OHH GOD HOT POTATO BETTER LEAP BACK

That's me getting myself in a catch-22, for which I've been mislynched before.

(although not a vote post, this comes in handy for the next set of voting)
KEEP IN MIND I AM NOT MISSING POSTS OR ANY MAGIC LEAPS BETWEEN THESE TWO. BE AMAZED.

CF Riot,

Firestarter's posts in isolation give me mostly townie vibes.

He switched two of his confirm votes, but I'll go ahead and dismiss that as a null tell. The only other thing I don't like about him off hand is his occasional megaposts.

Mine are killa seven, Firestarter, and a toss-up between FaerieLord and LlamaFluff. I need a reread too, and 41 pages is a lot.

Firestarter gives me townie vibes, but he is a TOP suspect (and our buddy FL is there too!)

So I was inconsistent. For me, being inconsistent = being unable to decide. I'll leave it up for debate what kind of tell it is.

Well, better get back to the voting:

I still can't find an awful lot of useful posts by killa seven, and

he's the other of the two people the town was split on lynching

in Day 1.5. Vote: killa seven until I start seeing decent posts from this guy or I have a better person to go after, whichever happens first.

Voting for not being useful! YES. YES. THIS IS HOW WE DO IT.

Let me guess: The part of your post in all-caps is supposed to be sarcastic?

More confirmation bias with guilt by association added to the mix.

Vote: Knight of Cydonia

I'm not getting anything scummy from Manito's posts in isolation, but LlamaFluff's case on him here still makes sense to me.

Just here for reference in a later question (WHAT COULD IT BE?? KEEP READING, CITIZEN, AND FIND OUT).

I unvoted pending Knight of Cydonia's new PBPA on killa seven, the latter of which I still suspect.

Thanks for the reminders, armlx and LlamaFluff. I have a PBPA I'm waiting for.

I will as soon as I get that PBPA of killa seven that Knight of Cydonia said he'd do. Don't rush me please.

killa seven, when KoC does a PBPA on you, I want to know what you have to say on both the PBPA and KoC himself.

Well, darn it, vote: Knight of Cydonia until he convinces me to move it! There! You happy!?

Waiting for the PBPA

on K7

. Sure...

Keep in mind that I was being pressured for playing the waiting game. I had to act. I could no longer sit there.

Knight of Cydonia wrote:
I'd say you've got plenty, SC. You seem to be saying you're up for an FS lynch, but voting the most popular wagon currently, anyway.

Very well then, I will unvote you and vote Firestarter for OMGUS. I have more information on him than you and killa seven.

What? Just, what?

What about what? Your question is too vague for me to give a response.

Pfft. I asked for an updated PbPA on killa seven from Knight of Cydonia. I don't remember seeing it. Deadline's looming, and I don't see a Firestarter lynch in this half of the day.

Unvote: Firestarter
Vote: Knight of Cydonia

THIS IS LYNCH MINUS ONE.

LEAP BACK TO THE CLOUDS. JUMP CHILD, JUMP.

I am at a loss of words, SpyreX. I simply cannot believe the amount of damning evidence against Firestarter in your #1657.

I know what I am, but seeing as I'm sold about him, I'm left with one and only one option.

Unvote: SpyreX
Vote: Firestarter

Fair enuf.. I guess. (We'll get to this later)

Nice strategy, SpyreX

Then, TODAY!

I don't think I have a vote out, but I'll still unvote just in case.

LlamaFluff makes me want to look at Manito, so I'll do that now.

It's kind of weird that LlamaFluff has been on every lynch and Manito hasn't been on a lynch at all. I see the case on Manito, but LlamaFluff seems a bit off because he switched to the guy about to be lynched on... if I count correctly, four occasions if you count Gimbo's hammer. He's consistantly been on a crusade to get Manito lynched, however, so I believe LlamaFluff to be town. I'll buy his case and vote Manito.

I don't see much of a case on LlamaFluff, though. (THIS IS AWESOME)

I'm going to unvote Manito at the moment. It's either him or LlamaFluff that I want to go after, but I really don't know which. I highly doubt two scum would bus each other the way LlamaFluff and Manito are going at each other, but I'm not convinced they're both town at the moment.

As I think I said, I don't think LlamaFluff vs. Manito is town vs. town, but I'm going to voice my thoughts right now. I'll build on this later and probably vote one of them.

Since I have more reason to believe LlamaFluff is scummier than Manito given the former's contradictions and I see little if any case on the latter, I think I'm justified if I vote LlamaFluff right now. (SEE THE ABOVE AWESOME)

Hey, Manito and LlamaFluff are the big standouts and I intend to have

one of them lynched

, OK?

I agree it's not pro-town of me to keep a vote without really knowing why anymore, so the only acceptable course of action is for me to unvote you,

but I still intend to get rid of one of you and Manito today.

I'm just gonna let this speak for itself. Like I said, I'll have questions later for all the good boys and girls.

I still plan on one of Manito and LlamaFluff dying today; however, I do see SpyreX's case and have him as a suspect as well.

Woop.

If you've read this far, you're curious what questions I have right.

Here's a few:

Mind if I try?

1.) In all of the above, do you see in the votes actually thinking someone is scum?

If being convinced by others counts, then yes. Don't forget that case of yours that killed Firestarter.

2.) If you thought a particular 'spat' was NOT town on town (implying that one party is scum).. would you jump your vote back and forth?

Not if I were certain of which, which I wasn't.

----2.b) If you thought it was NOT town on town would you repeatedly say you wanted one of them lynched..without saying a preference?

I was leaning Manito, then LlamaFluff, then undecided between those two. I think it implies that the case has your attention. I will on occasion suspect both sides of an argument so I can probe them and see who is most likely scum.

It could of course be scum on scum. I don't remember saying that they were scumbuddies, but nor do I remember ruling it out. Of course, memory isn't perfect, so...

----2.c) If you thought the above, would you willingly lend yourself to a third lynch possibility once it gained momentum?

If neither lynched looked like it was happening and you didn't want yourself in an impasse.

3.) EXTRA CREDIT: From the above, its kind of given, but do a reread of SC and find a case he builds on any player.

One on TheSweatpantsNinja regarding what look like a weak vote reason and one on you for misrepresentation.

----3.b) DOUBLE EXTRA CREDIT: Find a case he builds on any player that already isn't a matter of discussion for the day!

I believe TSN above.

Phase 3: The MURDERERS!

I missed this because SC was a repalcement, but since he's been in he HAS been on every lynch(which makes his Llama statement cute) Lets look at this for a brief moment.

Firestarter - 7 (SpyreX, armlx, orangepenguin,

StrangerCoug

, Manito, TheSweatpantsNinja,LlamaFluff)
Corinthian - 6 (LlamaFluff, Firestarter, TheSweatpantsNinja,

StrangerCoug

, orangepenguin, FaerieLord)
Knight of Cydonia - 7 (LlamaFluff, killa seven, orangepenguin, armlx, Firestarter,

StrangerCoug

, SpyreX)

(Yea I know they're not in order, blah blah)
Two of the three he's right in the center. The third he was L-1... but only because he jumped off the wagon and back on half a dozen times.

Now, I'm not one of those OMG X VOTER PEOPLE. However, there is something to look at above. Square in the middle - not early building the wagon and cases and not late presenting themselves as a matter of contention when the flip is town. Right in the middle.

Something's pinging with the way this is worded, but I can't quite determine it.

I AM one of those not building an actual case of your own on anyone is scummy. SC has really, really been guilty of that.

So everybody's case has to be original, in every tiny little detail, and once someone starts talking about one thing, everyone else loses the right to. I know this isn't true.

I AM one of those opportunistic voting patters are scummy. SC has really, really been guilty of that. SC is lord of the vote-hoppers and when the final hop has been right in the middle of each town wagon, well.

You say wishy-washiness, I say being unable to decide which.

Changes in "reads" on players without anything in the game to warrant them (see what I posted about FS) are opportunistic.

I've mostly found it easier to play as I go, but I do reread. It's rare, but I do it.

Bonus points for finally staying on the KoC lynch for, in essence, something you did all along with this.

Wait—you build the vote hopping case on me, and then you say I "stay on" a lynch? What the heck is this!?

All in all, a good post, and one that brought up a few good points, but you're flawed in a few points.

I have class in ten minutes, and I'm going to shoot even more holes in you when I get home.

[StrangerCoug]

Not if I were certain of which, which I wasn't.

Now, if you're not certain of which - how can you be certain of the "are" (one of them at least being scum). Certain enough that you've just reacted to their spat like a reed in the wind.

I was leaning Manito, then LlamaFluff, then undecided between those two. I think it implies that the case has your attention. I will on occasion suspect both sides of an argument so I can probe them and see who is most likely scum.

It could of course be scum on scum. I don't remember saying that they were scumbuddies, but nor do I remember ruling it out. Of course, memory isn't perfect, so...

Again, if you do not have a concrete reason to think one over the other..why the absolute fixation?

Because you were not yet at the center of my attention and those were my two guesses.

If neither lynched looked like it was happening and you didn't want yourself in an impasse.

If you are SO SURE one of them is scum, why at this point in the game would you give yourself a willing out to a third?

Because there are three scum, not two. That's the only answer that I believe this tunnel vision-encouraging question deserves.

One on TheSweatpantsNinja regarding what look like a weak vote reason and one on you for misrepresentation.

Cite both.

Here you go. Weak vote:

Vote strangercoug.

The continued lack of attention on him continues to bother me, and plus, he jumped on an inexplicable quicklynch with nary a hint of reasoning.

Response:

Voting me because I am not getting the attention you want on me does not make an awful lot of sense in and of itself. I didn't give an awful lot of reasoning, but it's there. Knight of Cydonia, when I was undecided between him and killa seven, said he'd do another PbPA of the latter. It never happened. I had other reasons to suspect Knight of Cydonia, but I was too lazy to go look for him.

SpyreX is getting a lot of attention because he didn't explain jack why he hammered. You commented on his abrupt hammer. Why are you trying to pass the blame on him to me, when I gave sufficient warning that I was the L-1 vote on him?

And your case on me other than that is what again?

All we went about doing is arguing over semantics, so I could not pursue him further, but it's still an original case. Give me credit where it's due.

Misrepresentation:

OHH NO WE ARE DOING IT AGAIN

Huh?

Armlx and spyrex are such obvious scumbuddies.

I'll be away for the next two days. Catch ya later.

Operative word in my post: plan. Which implies that if, for some reason neither a Manito lynch nor a LlamaFluff lynch are viable today, you are my other suspect of the day and I can push for your lynch today too if you rise above both of those people.

"If neither of the people who I have been flipflopping on and honestly haven't given reasons for thinking are scum (yet said one is scum) and somehow flipped my vote around don't managed to get the rope I will happily jump onto the new bandwagon."

Response:

Way to twist my words, scumbag. For the last time, LlamaFluff and Manito are my primary suspects of the day, but I've also been looking at you. You ignored what I just said in your "interpretation" of my intentions by making it look like I'm not going to get after you until day 3.5.

And you

STILL

act like you're immune to my vote.

Continuing on:

SECRET BONUS CREDIT: Who was the weak vote on and who did I 'misrepresent'

Me in both cases. Does that make it invalid? No, not necessarily.

Something's pinging with the way this is worded, but I can't quite determine it.

Well please do. I'd love to see it.

So everybody's case has to be original, in every tiny little detail, and once someone starts talking about one thing, everyone else loses the right to. I know this isn't true.

Yes we have to each be original little snowflakes. Wait. I didn't say that. I dont even think in normal world I implied that. Or used wishy-washy. I said your voting has been

opportunistic

. You've been the "me too" guy. Not building a case on your own - you have been totally reactionary and followed the biggest hitters all along.

Granted, I haven't been good at original cases this game, but original cases by me exist. Stop dismissing them as nonexistent.

I don't remember TheSweatpantsNinja being one of the "biggest hitters" either.

How about this, ladies and gentleman. We lynch SC and when he's scum we get prizes! If, through some fluke of nature, he is town then I will hand myself up tomorrow!

Sorry, but if I can help it, you're dying before I do.

Vote: SpyreX

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP: My response to the first quote is "Because I saw scum tells out of both of them."

[StrangerCoug]

All right, SpyreX, here's the lowdown on you. I'm going to look at each and every post of yours in isolation and bring up the parts I don't like, and I expect you to defend them.

So, wow, how is it that I end up voting for what appears to be the only person who hasn't posted yet? (I could be wrong) Um...I know these games are a lot slower than I'm used to but there has to be some reason here :S.

This, REALLY, seems like a stretch. You're really placing a lot of onus for what is a random vote from you especially considering there's been no reply and, honeslty, when he does reply what do you expect in response?

FoS: forbid

What's a stretch, forbiddanlight's case or yours?

I personally believe one of us is scum, and that's where my vote stands, since I know my alignment.

Again... I find myself agreeing with Gimbo. The wording on this seems very off.

Honestly, your case to me isn't that strong on K7 actually BEING scum. Is it possible? Yes but not with the certainty inherent in that post (I believe one of us is scum, if you lynch him and he's not... then I am scum).

However, the way you are pushing it (ready for the tinfoil hat) is like you KNOW he is scum for sure. Which...could only happen if you are scum yourself.

I dont like this at all.

This wouldn't be something I would have caught a week ago. Heck, I might not even have caught it yesterday. But to apply what I've learned lately in my experiences to your case, Gimbo could just as easily have been confident in who he felt have been scum. I know the scum is also known as the informed minority, but just because someone claims to know who scum is and/or acts like it should not be taken on its own as grounds for incrimination.

I've made my feelings clear, but I'll chime in again so as to not be lurking.

Not only is the part of this sentence after the comma scummy, but you made a post 10 hours, 23 minutes, and 46 seconds before saying this, and that was a meaningful post, too.

Days 1.5 and 2.0, you play just fine UNTIL...

STOP

Hammertime!

Unvote, Vote: KoC

Absolutely no reasoning given. No chance for Knight of Cydonia to defend himself. Yet he dies.

When asked for a reason:

I was tired of today, and I'm predicting scum-flip, but I just hate when things shift all suddenly like that. If this is a mislynch I'm going to be pissed for more than one reason, and I'm probably not going to trust anyone.

Honestly, today started dragging on and I had a chance to hammer, so I took it. KoC has been scummy and thats going to be the "best" consensus we were going to get. So, yea, there we go.

This is lame.

I did just power hammer to move the game forward when we had consensus on what was a scummy player. With the speed I'll admit I more than half expected a townflip but, even then, we can pull information out of it and we've still got time.

What the hell, SpyreX? If your mental odds of Knight of Cydonia were more than 50%, then why on planet Earth did you hammer!?

I didn't exactly like his power hammer. I did warn that it was lynch minus one, and I had my suspicions on Knight of Cydonia. Where, however, are SpyreX's suspicions of Knight of Cydonia?

After KoC's amazing scummove there I may be willing to shift FL back tomorrow for KoC - I dont think FS is going to be negotiable.

Other players I'd be more than happy to give the rope to:
1.) FL - for reasons stated over and over again (and notice the absence of real talking so far today).
2.) KoC - he's been diggin' a hole and I could really see the lynch.
3.) K7 - K7, enough said. I think the time will come soon enough when he's going to have to go.

I can dig not "setting" them up but unless someone decides to really up the scum-level I will not shed a tear on FS, FL, KoC, or K7 at this point. If there's not one scum in there (much less 2) i'd be really, really surprised.

Yep, never mentioned it at all.

This doesn't do anything to convince me you're town. In fact, you seem to acknowledge committing a scummy action.

I had said I found KoC scummy.

I had said I wanted a lynch - in fact I used the word turbolynch. I felt it was past time for it.

Someone I found scummy came up for lynch. I hammered him.

So no, when I hammered I didn't give any extra special reasoning, but it was there most of that day.

Ladies and gentlemen, SpyreX is a hypocrite. His case on me is that I just followed along with the town without adding my own input, but this is him doing

EXACTLY THAT.

If FL flips scum, we lynch K7 next. OMG Chain lynch all you want. No talking, no filibustering. We lynch K7 and if you dont like it you're a scumbo.
--- However, if FL is town, K7 either has to be lynched tomorrow or not at all - Seriously, we all know K7 is not going to be NK'd and I swear to everything holy if someone even mentions him for the lylo vote they are scum.

Anyone who does not see this as lining up lynches is blind.

Be a hero. Vote SpyreX.

[StrangerCoug]

Because there are three scum, not two. That's the only answer that I believe this tunnel vision-encouraging question deserves.

.... I'm tunnel visioning? For real? For mad reals?

No, I'm saying you're

encouraging

it. Not guilty of it yourself.

And you STILL act like you're immune to my vote.

I am because, well, this is a joke. A cute joke. Its funny to me because even if you get your way today.. you're gonna get power lynched tomorrow.

Just for that... *snips the rest of your case*

Confirm vote: SpyreX

The Internet is serious business. When I threaten to do something online, I mean it. And I did it. Stop blowing me off.

[StrangerCoug]

Absolutely no reasoning given. No chance for Knight of Cydonia to defend himself. Yet he dies.

When asked for a reason:

Yea he had no chance that whole time all those votes started piling on. I thought he was suspicious and we were dragging, so I killed him. Yep.

Because you never offered him such.

SORRY ABOUT NO REASON NEXT TIME I SHOULD FIND A WHOPPER LIKE HE DIDNT GIVE ME A PBPA BECAUSE THATS SOO SCUMMY.

It didn't necessarily have to be the failure to be a promised post; you could have spat out a scummy thing or two Knight of Cydonia did and be fine with it.

What the hell, SpyreX? If your mental odds of Knight of Cydonia were more than 50%, then why on planet Earth did you hammer!?

Because it 50% is still enough for me to kill a scummy player? I'm not sure what you're looking for here.

Right before the death scene, you said that, even though you found Knight of Cydonia scummy, you thought it more likely that he would flip town. He did.

This doesn't do anything to convince me you're town. In fact, you seem to acknowledge committing a scummy action.

What? When did I ever say that what I did was a scummy action.. in fact

Now, you mention that I said I wasn't surprised. I wasn't. It was obvious that wagon came on too fast from too many directions with no new reasons for the lynch for me to think it was a sure-fire scumhit. However, was KoC scummy? Sure was. Would KoC being alive have helped? Only as a body, but more as a perfect distraction for the scum on later days - we still have some eggs we can break for this omlete and I have no problem nailing scummy players.

In fact, pulling that wagon away (which I thought of) ultimatley had more negatives than positives:

- There was a decent chance KoC was scum and I was wrong.
- Pulling the wagon wouldn't alleviate his scummy play and would have made him a distraction on later days (see how K7 / FL are lynch candidates each day)
- It would NOT have given the analysis on that wagon that I am very sure has scum on it.

So, yep, I did it. I saw no need for a "last plea" - really, those are for role-based games to make sure you dont powerlynch a scummy cop or the like. In the game with just vanilla , yea, those player will and should be hung.

So that = me admitting it was scummy? Par for the course!

You went out of context with my remark. What you said came off to me as not caring about him in the least.

And look at this: "There was a decent chance KoC was scum and I was wrong."

YOU HAMMERED TOWN WELL AWARE OF THE LIKELIHOOD OF SUCH. DESPITE HIS SCUMMY ACTIONS, YOU SAW THE ODDS AS KNIGHT OF CYDONIA BEING TOWN, BUT KILLED HIM ANYWAY.

Ladies and gentlemen, SpyreX is a hypocrite. His case on me is that I just followed along with the town without adding my own input, but this is him doing EXACTLY THAT.

My case on you is that you, THIS ENTIRE GAME, have followed along with the town without adding your own input. That everything you've done has been bandwagon hopping and reactionary. How you can equate that to the post you quoted as being the same just doesn't make sense.

Take away the bandwagon hopping and reactionary posts of mine that you speak of, compare my actions to yours that day, and it will.

Anyone who does not see this as lining up lynches is blind.

Or illiterate because I WAS SETTING UP LYNCHES. ITS NOT LIKE I WAS HIDING IT WOO.

If FL is scum, K7 is the proper lynch because...all of his play.

You need to be more specific than that.

No, I'm saying you're encouraging it. Not guilty of it yourself.

Maybe I've just been being too nice about this.

You're whole "Manito or Llama" OMG fest today was stupid. It was also scummy because you really dont seem to care which one and, yet, somehow you over and over have said ONE MUST BE SCUM.

Not that I don't care, but that I haven't figured out which one. I've defended this already.

[StrangerCoug]

Because you never offered him such.

Are you for real?

Yes, I am for real, he-who-refuses-to-acknowledge-other-people's-existence.

Its not like that wagon took place over a day. He had plenty of time.

Whatever.

It didn't necessarily have to be the failure to be a promised post; you could have spat out a scummy thing or two Knight of Cydonia did and be fine with it.

Again, I'm not sure if the sarcasm is missing you or not.

It wouldn't be the first time.

I DID say I found him scummy that day. More than once.

You kept leaping back and forth and landed on keeping it there

because he did not give a PBPA

of KILLER SEVEN

.

Plus other things.

Right before the death scene, you said that, even though you found Knight of Cydonia scummy, you thought it more likely that he would flip town. He did.

Yes, and? With the speed it picked up I had a feeling that he was going to flip town. He did. That doesn't change the fact that he was scummy. That doesn't change the fact the only way I would have known, for sure, would be to kill him. I'm not of the "ohh let the scummy players live" mentality. Never have, never will.

Then why did you mention Knight of Cydonia possibly being town in the first place?

You went out of context with my remark. What you said came off to me as not caring about him in the least.

I went out of context? You implied that I was admitting being scummy.. when I never did. In fact I pretty much say the opposite and give my reasons for it.

Your response implied your admission.

And look at this: "There was a decent chance KoC was scum and I was wrong." YOU HAMMERED TOWN WELL AWARE OF THE LIKELIHOOD OF SUCH. DESPITE HIS SCUMMY ACTIONS, YOU SAW THE ODDS AS KNIGHT OF CYDONIA BEING TOWN, BUT KILLED HIM ANYWAY.

You're not good at caps. Also not good at bolds apparently. Good thing we dont have sirens.

To hell with semantics.

First off, I hammered a scummy player - he was not known as town until after the hammer. So don't play the "KILLING TOWN OMG" business with it.

I wouldn't be hadn't you discussed Knight of Cydonia being town before the mod revealed his alignment.

Despite his scummy actions, I saw a distinct possiblity that he was town, yes. Does that mean I was correct? No. How could I prove I was correct? By the lynch. What did I do? Lynch him.

Tell me how testing whether someone is town or not by lynching them is pro-town.

God, one of the reasons why I thought he might be town was the speed people climbed on that lynch. Guess, just GUESS, who one of them was?

You, since you made no objection to the speed of his wagon before the hammer.

Take away the bandwagon hopping and reactionary posts of mine that you speak of, compare my actions to yours that day, and it will.

"Take away all the extra bad stuff I did and compare the actions of a singular day and there WILL be a similarity"

"Screw StrangerCoug's case on me; I don't care about town lynches."

However, that has no bearing on the fact I have said you have been doing it all game. I didn't make that up. Also, and I cant believe have to say this, removing all the extra scummy things you did that day OF COURSE there will be similarities. It is those SELFSAME things that you are asking to REMOVE that ARE scummy for that day.

You cannot accuse me of following along with Knight of Cydonia's lynch specifically without taking into account that you followed suit for the same reason why I cannot accuse LlamaFluff of being bossy without taking into account that I agreed with why he was so.

You need to be more specific than that.

Sorry, not spoonfeeding you another avenue of discussion that is going to have no bearing on today for you to squeak out of. Its not rocket science and anyone who gives a care can find exactly what I'm talking about.

One, I need reminders. Two, denying the town discussion is scummy.

Not that I don't care, but that I haven't figured out which one. I've defended this already.

Why are you holding on to this? This is what set off the final red flag to being with and you're still doing it. Just because they are fighting doesn't mean ONE HAS TO BE SCUM. You are being willfully obtuse and it hurts.

They're still in my top three, and I haven't forgotten about other.

Of course, considering you are scum, I guess I should be thankful for it.

Likewise for you.

[StrangerCoug]

Plus other things.

Cite. Show.

Your wish is my command.

Post #276, Knights of Cydonia? What the hell?

FoS: Knight of Cydonia

until you explain it.

Let's start with this:

I have seen this debate a few times, and my position is always the same. A townie who is not too good is still a townie. They are still a body that mafia needs to get lynched, NK or endgame. Killing off someone because they are not a good player is handing scum a free pass for the day.

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know you wanted fl kept around to confuse us for the next lynch, and the next, and the next.

This is a lame defense and comes off to me as you thinking forbiddanlight was scum merely because she was confusing.

It's basically a pile of one-liners. Only once do you refer to a genuine post you've made, and your so-called case is just a shoddy, one-liner PBPA. That's not a case, that's a PBPA, and trying to pass it off as one is a lie. And only scum need to lie.
LYNCH ALL LIARS!

The last time I checked, lynch all liars does not apply merely because you disagree over what something is. Major self-contradictions (e.g. claiming to be a vigilante, then a vanilla townie) will usually trigger LAL, and there's probably other things that will set it off too, but I see this as a stretch and an excuse.

FaerieLord, that is the crux of my whole case against you - no town should ever actively seek to lynch town, or have a motive to lynch town - as LlamaFluff said, its still one more body in the Mafia's way. By admitting you wanted to lynch forbiddan as town, you merely confirm your scumminess.

Unless I misquoted you (and you should really avoid posting your opinions in other people's quote boxes, even if you set them off—harder to read and make out what's yours or not), this and the first set of quotes don't make sense together to me. Could you please explain?

Quite frankly, m'dear, if you are town, I'd be almost as happy to see you go. You're doing nothing by playing this way other than helping the Mafia.

Which is why I don't worry as much about what he's saying. His vote is warranted, but I figured I'd point out the part where

he's stating that he'd be happy to see me go even as town.

That's NOT good, at all. But either way, I can't make much of it since my play has been horrid this game, so I just point it out so that it might be examined later.

I'm really glad you responded like this, forbiddan. Before, I had a 1% suspicion you might have been town. Now, it's somewhere around 0.00001%.
You've rather cleverly misinterpreted my post there. I said that I was pretty damn sure that you were scum, but that if you were town, you're doing us no help. I at no point said *bolded part*, I just stated that it makes no sense for a town player to do this, since it only helps the Mafia, and that if you were town, it wouldn't be a loss. I never said I was lynching you without caring if you were town or scum, which is what you've tried to imply.

I hate these two posts, especially in combination. I don't like how the wording of the first one comes off. Looking at them, yes, it does appear that forbiddanlight attempted to strawman Knight of Cydonia, but his defense doesn't match up well with the vibes I get from the first post.

Yeah, look, fl, we all know you're scum, or the most retarded townie ever, so stop trying to throw crap out there to try and get a townie lynch day 1.5.

This is confirmation bias.

Also, just one for the rest of the town to consider - look who leapt to FL's defence as soon as heat came down: Llama and CF Riot. That makes three. Could be perfectly innocent, but if FL flips scum, as I'm sure he would, we might be onto something.

More confirmation bias with guilt by association added to the mix.

Vote: Knight of Cydonia

Your turn.

I wouldn't be hadn't you discussed Knight of Cydonia being town before the mod revealed his alignment.

So is it scummy that I called FS scum and I was wrong? Or... does that change one whit about it.

No, it is not scummy you were wrong about Firestarter being scum because you dedicated a post to his scumminess and convinced us to hammer him. You did no such post on Knight of Cydonia—you simply went "Yeah, he's scummy, and I'm not worried about the quick wagon" and proceeded to put him out of his misery even though the wagon gave you reason to believe that Knight of Cydonia was town.

One, I need reminders. Two, denying the town discussion is scummy.

Good thing I'm not denying the

town

discussion! Ahh thats better.

Get out of tunnel vision land.

[StrangerCoug]

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know you wanted fl kept around to confuse us for the next lynch, and the next, and the next.

This is a lame defense and comes off to me as you thinking forbiddanlight was scum merely because she was confusing.

I dont think that people who really read what he said can say he thinks she scum because she's confusing. Its pretty clear that he saying that leaving her will confuse the issue for the rest of the game.

It's basically a pile of one-liners. Only once do you refer to a genuine post you've made, and your so-called case is just a shoddy, one-liner PBPA. That's not a case, that's a PBPA, and trying to pass it off as one is a lie. And only scum need to lie.
LYNCH ALL LIARS

The last time I checked, lynch all liars does not apply merely because you disagree over what something is. Major self-contradictions (e.g. claiming to be a vigilante, then a vanilla townie) will usually trigger LAL, and there's probably other things that will set it off too, but I see this as a stretch and an excuse.

A joke is a joke, for pete's sake.

I believe I've implied that my sense of humor is not the best, and I actually interpreted that post as an intent to get the person lynched for lying.

FaerieLord, that is the crux of my whole case against you - no town should ever actively seek to lynch town, or have a motive to lynch town - as LlamaFluff said, its still one more body in the Mafia's way. By admitting you wanted to lynch forbiddan as town, you merely confirm your scumminess.

Unless I misquoted you (and you should really avoid posting your opinions in other people's quote boxes, even if you set them off—harder to read and make out what's yours or not), this and the first set of quotes don't make sense together to me. Could you please explain?

Again, not sure whats so hard about this. KoC thought FL was scum, but in the event she was town, her loss wouldn't be a bad one because she was playing badly.

Very well then.

Relooking at the above, especially considering KoC was getting heat from other avenues, really just reinforces my you jumping on bandwagons. If you REALLY want I'll do the same your other set but I'm still groggy from a long night so dont feel like repeating myself.

Go ahead. The more discussion, the merrier, contrary to what you seem to think.

Other players I'd be more than happy to give the rope to:
1.) FL - for reasons stated over and over again (and notice the absence of real talking so far today).
2.) KoC - he's been diggin' a hole and I could really see the lynch.
3.) K7 - K7, enough said. I think the time will come soon enough when he's going to have to go.

1. I'm not going to bother with FaerieLord unless you want to.
2. Have we covered this "hole", so we don't run around in circles?
3. You're still being vague here, and you have refused to answer me about why you suspect killa seven.

Ok...

I know I promised a reread, but honestly, I haven't had it in me for this game. This one is slogging along and it needs a boot.

Look at the last few pages - we've spent more time and actual effort figuring out FaerieLords alignment than actually looking for scum. Or doing anything. Hell, at this point I miss the unwarranted finger-pointing and whatever else.

So, if I really really need to, I'll do something by ohh Fridayish on at least two of my suspects. But, in the meantime lets DO something constructive like just up and turbolynch someone. Anyone. At this point it could be me and I wouldn't care - some would be bad lynches but really I wouldn't even try and stop it.

We need to do something to knock ourselves out of the doldrums.

So no I didn't build a huge case on KoC. His actions that day were retarded and I made it clear I'd hammer anyone to get the game moving. I DID.

If the case is there, then good.

No, it is not scummy you were wrong about Firestarter being scum because you dedicated a post to his scumminess and convinced us to hammer him. You did no such post on Knight of Cydonia—you simply went "Yeah, he's scummy, and I'm not worried about the quick wagon" and proceeded to put him out of his misery even though the wagon gave you reason to believe that Knight of Cydonia was town.

I cant believe I didn't catch this before. I hammered KoC and the next DAY I said that with the speed of the wagon I wasn't suprirsed.

Well, I'll be damned—I mistook one of CF Riot's posts as yours. I'm glad we've been looking at this case again, though.

And stop with the "KoC was town" - the wagon

gave me reason to suspect he

might

not be scum.

Those are not the same things. I do not feel at this moment explaining the deep psychological difference, but its there.

Give me a heads up if and when we do, since nothing new seems to be coming out of this otherwise.

Get out of tunnel vision land.

Says the black hole to the kettle.

Says the madman who is trying to cut off discussion on me in favor of my mislynch.

[StrangerCoug]

Hmm... I'd expect SpyreX would respond to my most recent points by now.

LlamaFluff, what is your opinion of SpyreX?

[StrangerCoug]

I think the hammer scares everybody, but it has to be thrown down by somebody.

Other than that, nothing new, so no further comment.

[StrangerCoug]

Not even the mod wants to get rid of me xD He already saved me once!

But again, I think I've said all I can. If anyone wants me to say anything else...

[StrangerCoug]

That, or all the Mafia could be already on my wagon and they're waiting for a stray townie to mislead into voting me. Manito was going at LlamaFluff with all his might, and almost in the blink of an eye, he votes me with little effort.

[StrangerCoug]

This has turned into a high-stakes game already. I am unable to convince the vote to swing in SpyreX's direction, but from a third party's point of view I'd be concerned here too.

SpyreX is gambling with his life. If he is scum, which I think, I couldn't care less about it, but if he is town he is biting more than he can chew at the expense of the rest of the town. If you are going to hammer me, don't hammer me solely because you can. Hammer me because you genuinely believe and are confident that I am scum based on my play, my actions, etc.

Now, I know what I am. But I also know that nobody is right 100% of the time. If your educated guess is that I am scum and you turn out to be wrong, I hope the information that I have presented to you is helpful to the town and useful in getting scum lynched, because then it will be LYLO.

[StrangerCoug]

I just implied (#1954) that Manito's vote on me was opportunistic, so the two of you are not completely forgotten.

[StrangerCoug]

1.) SpyreX
2.) SpyreX and Manito most likely. I don't have a solid third, and I'm sold on you being most likely town.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm not going to list the Knight of Cydonia case since we've gone through it in detail and I feel that he's sufficiently defended it.

Let's review SpyreX's other crimes, though, shall we?

• Misrepresentation of my stance on the three of you despite it shifting quite a bit.
  
• Pretending that just because I suspected him doesn't mean I vote him.
  
• Calling my vote threat a joke, which goes along with the above. (Not really relevant to this game, but if you think all threats on the Internet are empty threats, then you don't read/listen to the news enough.)
  
• Overall thinking I'm not serious.
  
• Tunnel vision. When I told him that denying the town discussion was scummy, he responded by saying he was glad he wasn't "denying the
  town
  discussion", bolding being his, which is where I'm getting this accusation from.

[StrangerCoug]

Alright, SC, you're going overboard with all your comments, and I can't ignore it.

Your "Sorry, but if I can help it, you're dying before I do" totally sounds like scum trying to get one more kill before he's offed.

I'll focus on Llama on 3.5, but your behavior of late is just too much to ignore.

Unvote: LlamaFluff
Vote: StrangerCoug

Nice attempt at

ad hominem tu quoque[/b], Manito.

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP:

Nice attempt at

ad hominem tu quoque

, Manito.

Tags fixed.

[StrangerCoug]

Tu quoque

is "you too" in Latin and means that someone doing X makes that person accusing someone else of doing X void. An example of where this would be a fallacy would be "Bob can't accuse me of plagiarism because he got kicked out of college for plagiarism".

[StrangerCoug]

Threatening to vote is a joke. Why even bother?

Fine. I'll just straight up vote people next time.

[StrangerCoug]

BAH!

[StrangerCoug]

And I had all three Mafia suspected at some time or other, at some level or other, yet they all managed to stay alive *bangs head against monitor until unconscious*