Large Normal 229 | Manatee's Musical Mafia | Game Over

[Fwesnid]

Second

[Fwesnid]

VOTE: Bell

[Fwesnid]

@Mod It should be 11 to lynch, I'm voting for Bell while Glitch is not, and superbowl is voting for Glitch.

This is my first game out of the newbie forum. Question: "The townvmafia numbers are confirmed to be 16v5," so this is definitely two factions? No worrying about more than one mafia or a serial killer?

Yes there are exactly 16 town, and exactly 5 mafia of one faction.

Full and odd-night vigilantes should almost always be shooting night 1. X-shot is pretty situational.

superbowl's two recent posts ping.

[Fwesnid]

Yes there are exactly 16 town, and exactly 5 mafia of one faction.

Full and odd-night vigilantes should almost always be shooting night 1. X-shot is pretty situational.

superbowl's two recent posts ping.

Actually answering my question. Thanks!

Why do the posts 'ping?' That's pretty ambiguous.

They seemed unnatural to me.

@Mod It should be 11 to lynch, I'm voting for Bell while Glitch is not, and superbowl is voting for Glitch.

This is my first game out of the newbie forum. Question: "The townvmafia numbers are confirmed to be 16v5," so this is definitely two factions? No worrying about more than one mafia or a serial killer?

Yes there are exactly 16 town, and exactly 5 mafia of one faction.

Full and odd-night vigilantes should almost always be shooting night 1. X-shot is pretty situational.

superbowl's two recent posts ping.

I might be chasing at shadows, but how do you know there is only one faction? The information that I can see specifies 5 mafia. Does that specifically exclude a group of 2 and a group of 3?

This is a weird question if you've read the op.
It states a 16v5 not a 16v3v2.

For me it's because I threw a tiny amount of shade at superbowl as a bit of a reaction test and got two small nibbles.

And it's inherently scummy to agree with you because...?
Maybe I'm missing something but that's how I interpret it.

I'm currently town on both Nero and Norway, since their play reminds me of their towngames. NPOM is prob town too, but shouldn't be listened to

My top townread is catscratch since this is voicing what I was thinking while reading though wasn't very confident on.
I'm also just liking their posting in general, specifically the questions she chooses to ask.


@Glitch I was the other person who took the 'bait' by saying

superbowl's two recent posts ping.

[Fwesnid]

Spoiler: Jackson Virgo catchup trimmed

Why did i join a 20+ game. Omg. Time to fight against the wagon dynamics of dogpiling on an random player.
Vigs better shoot tonight.

Why would vig's have to shoot tonight? Wouldn't it be better to save the vig shots for a 1 for 1 scenario or similar or at least until we've got a bunch more reads down.

Given the size of this group, how do you feel about eliminating low-activity slots?

Do you agree with Norwegian that vigs should shoot early?

Unless there is good evidence of lurking, no. Mis-elimming an active slot will generally tell us more than a mis-elim on an inactive slot. This obviously only applies to early game, activity will be a useful source of information later in the game because of how easy it is to fly below the radar.

I've never played a setup with a vig, and haven't really thought about it. So not sure, probably defer to other's better judgement on this.

I don't believe this answered their question at all but I am personally against shooting N1 as you may end up killing a strong PR or the like stupidly and then go "Oh oop- soz"

Also is kill credits a thing?

@Mod It should be 11 to lynch, I'm voting for Bell while Glitch is not, and superbowl is voting for Glitch.

This is my first game out of the newbie forum. Question: "The townvmafia numbers are confirmed to be 16v5," so this is definitely two factions? No worrying about more than one mafia or a serial killer?

Yes there are exactly 16 town, and exactly 5 mafia of one faction.

Full and odd-night vigilantes should almost always be shooting night 1. X-shot is pretty situational.

superbowl's two recent posts ping.

Can you explain to me as to why vigilantes should shoot N1, I don't see the benefit outside of just killing town off faster with the small chance of hitting a wolf.

Unless a vigilante is x-shot they can't 'save' shots.
A full vigilante is a very strong role, there's not much you're gonna hit. (For perspective, if a vigilante shoots twice, and one shot is someone town would've eliminated anyway, and the other is just not someone scum would nk upon roleclaim, the vigilante was positive.)
Haven't heard of kill credits so probably not.
If there are three deaths night 1 and no weak/babysitters etc. we know there is at least two vigilantes.


UNVOTE: VOTE: superbowl
I scumread how he interacted with MM, it seemed very dismissive, and am curious of his perspective of offsuit's point.

[Fwesnid]

Not sure if that's gonna be accepted.
VOTE: superbowl

[Fwesnid]

I can't tell if I'm scumreading Ralph or if I'm just annoyed that I need someone to translate his posts for me to understand them.

[Fwesnid]

I can't tell if I'm scumreading Ralph or if I'm just annoyed that I need someone to translate his posts for me to understand them.

I feel like you are flying below the radar right now. Feel like throwing some content into the mix?

Is 'not really' a valid answer?
I'm townreading both MM and glitch but not to the point to be able to make a strong case for either.

Your avi looks like something a new web designer would do and think is a good background.

That's basically what happened, I then cropped it to avatar size.

I can't tell if I'm scumreading Ralph or if I'm just annoyed that I need someone to translate his posts for me to understand them.

How are you scumreading someone with no content who posts gibberish

It looks like scummy gibberish?

Spoiler: ralph

i get feelin whys every one tslking

I generally consider telling people to post less and/or asking why people are talking to not be a town mindset.

Bell jump on wagon when heard it was is"nt your let him clami ? other wise it counts as a quick hammer

This looks like scummy gibberish to me, not much of a way to describe it.

I mean, if you know/think a pairing is impossible/unlikely to be S/S you don't push both, you pick on or the other. Him not doing that only serves to widen his pool.

like if he said "Nero is scum so thus norway is town" then I'm his sole mislynch opportunity. But by being unwilling to make a call like that now he has 2 mislynch opportunities.

If he makes a 'rushed' call he can then flip it when he's wrong on the one and still go for a second mislynch.

[Fwesnid]

I feel very lost.
UNVOTE:

[Fwesnid]

I think it's townie the way glitch phrased his claim.


VOTE: 72offsuit
They're the much worse half of the continuous argument with reaver that got overshadowed.

1138 is avoiding the reason reaver scumreads offsuit and instead asking for specifics of a tangent of the argument.

[Fwesnid]

I think it's townie the way glitch phrased his claim.


VOTE: 72offsuit
They're the much worse half of the continuous argument with reaver that got overshadowed.

1138 is avoiding the reason reaver scumreads offsuit and instead asking for specifics of a tangent of the argument.

Is popping in right as you are getting wagoned a scum thing or just no?

Yes that is scummy jackson

Apologies for not doing the clearly townier option of not posting when a wagon forms.

Spoiler:

Yes there are exactly 16 town, and exactly 5 mafia of one faction.

Full and odd-night vigilantes should almost always be shooting night 1. X-shot is pretty situational.

superbowl's two recent posts ping.

Actually answering my question. Thanks!

Why do the posts 'ping?' That's pretty ambiguous.

They seemed unnatural to me.

@Mod It should be 11 to lynch, I'm voting for Bell while Glitch is not, and superbowl is voting for Glitch.

This is my first game out of the newbie forum. Question: "The townvmafia numbers are confirmed to be 16v5," so this is definitely two factions? No worrying about more than one mafia or a serial killer?

Yes there are exactly 16 town, and exactly 5 mafia of one faction.

Full and odd-night vigilantes should almost always be shooting night 1. X-shot is pretty situational.

superbowl's two recent posts ping.

I might be chasing at shadows, but how do you know there is only one faction? The information that I can see specifies 5 mafia. Does that specifically exclude a group of 2 and a group of 3?

This is a weird question if you've read the op.
It states a 16v5 not a 16v3v2.

For me it's because I threw a tiny amount of shade at superbowl as a bit of a reaction test and got two small nibbles.

And it's inherently scummy to agree with you because...?
Maybe I'm missing something but that's how I interpret it.

I'm currently town on both Nero and Norway, since their play reminds me of their towngames. NPOM is prob town too, but shouldn't be listened to

My top townread is catscratch since this is voicing what I was thinking while reading though wasn't very confident on.
I'm also just liking their posting in general, specifically the questions she chooses to ask.


@Glitch I was the other person who took the 'bait' by saying

superbowl's two recent posts ping.

This post of Fwesnid's pinged as town for me, especially the last bit where he tells Glitch he (Fwesnid) is the other person I was SRing. I feel like scum would've probably ignored this.

That being said, they are definitely avoiding a lot of contribution. And their other game (where Fwesnid was scum), they were about the same in terms of activity (very quick skim). Hmmm...

I don't really get why you're thinking activity level is gonna be ai? Like I'm obviously not gonna come out posting many times a day since I wasn't before.

Unfortunately nero i think you are allowing stanley to look town here

But if we go with fwesnid Who nero just opposed for like no reason that flip will help us figure out nero for sure and in turn a lot of other stuff. Fwesnid is good for info and LAL even if you dont see scumminess

I'm not being wagoned for scumminess but rather for info.
The info I am being wagoned for is future tense as in generated by the wagoning.
This info generated which the wagon is currently standing on is "towniest player in the game is not sold on him being scum."
Did I miss anything?

Are you trying to save fwesnid here.

Imagine trying to make dead air.

[Fwesnid]

Imagine writing a wall full of nothing but pointing out the obvious while forgetting to look at who on his wagon might be scum.

Superbowl and IKS is what I'm leaning towards.
Struggling with sorting offsuit/superbowl interaction though.
IKS doesn't have much in ISO outside of dowels.

[Fwesnid]

What did you expect?

[Fwesnid]

Votes all look the same to me apart from order, besides looter's.

Less lost and more stuck.
Less lost in that I can see the split between joining and not joining the lead wagon easier than with Glitch wagon.
[People who're trying to advance the game + People who don't care what happens with today's hang vs else]
More stuck in that I don't know where to go from here and it seems I'm the person whose supposed to bring the gamestate somewhere.

[Fwesnid]

VOTE: Fwes

It's Saturday so I won't be around much because it's my DnD day. Just consider me voting the largest wagon.

Claiming now to save time.
I am a

3-shot loud gunsmith.

Vote for me if you think I'm scum who's gonna repeatedly claimed blocked or a mafia loud rolecop/gunsmith/follower.

Didn't crumb since loud is provable, and if I got no gun I'd crumb 'inno' such that their person I visited would hopefully see it, when I got a gun result I'd ask the person to roleclaim at start of day after saying I have a guilty.

You better not all cfd norwee because iT'S tHe lArGeSt wAgOn.
That can be part of the reason but that should not be the entire reason.

My top scumreads right now are offsuit and titus.

[Fwesnid]

"I voted him but he's not scummy" really sells a wagon.

VOTE: titus
I still scumread them.

[Fwesnid]

*Magnet Noises*

Actual thoughts coming this evening don't have time now.

[Fwesnid]

*Magnet Noises*

Actual thoughts coming this evening don't have time now.

Why wouldn't you drop in your results?

Magnet noises is reference to our pr hunting skills as in I found a gun.
Not (Read: shouldn't be) my job to say who.

Does it not make sense that scum killing Nero is intended to set up a lynch on me or glitch?

I don't feel like lynching a claimed or today.

Nero wanted stanley dead I think.
VOTE: stanley

I just think this is a terrible reason to vote for me. How often do scum kill the person who scum reads them for the intention of getting them off their case? Just leads a trail back to them surely

Why would scum not kill Nero? It is an advantageous way to get D2 townies to turn on me and Stanley. That would be the most smart move. Why is it scummy to recognize that that setup is not a bad idea for scum?

These look both coordinated and unnatural.

Hmmm, if I were to take a guess, I would say Titus is town, Fwesnid is scum, and Glitch is ???

Fwesnid not releasing results screams of "I need time to talk to my scum team about strategy".

VOTE: Fwesnid

You have already forgotten I'm loud in favor of calling me scum.
(Your progression on me makes 0 sense.)

I'd argue Glitch is worse. But ok. If not Fwesnid or Glitch, then who?

Titus??? Your last few posts have been if not straight scummy definitely crazy

Yeah, I am well out of my depth on this one. Reason I flip-flopped on Titus was I thought the babysitter claim seemed more reasonable given IKS confirming, and the sequence on the bottom of page 111 seemed towny (especially since I seem to have a strong bias in my Fwesnid read).

But something is definitely not adding up. So far we have:

• A watcher (now dead, confirmed town)
  
• A beefed up roleblocker (now dead, confirmed town)
  
• A 3-shot gunsmith
  
• A babysitter
  
• A delayed, but supposedly powerful, mystery PR
  
• A vigilante or other secondary kill mechanism

This seems like a lot, would I be right in saying it's almost certain that there is scum in [Glitch, Fwesnid, Titus]?

pedit: I think SB answered my question

I think this setup is totally possible w/ 5 scum but to hit 4/5 of those PRs D/N1 is a little hard to believe, especially because Fwesnid and titus were kinda random pushes by me. Either someone's lying or we have a 6th scum

"were kinda random pushes by me" just

screams

catching scum.

My expectation is that roughly half of town would have a power role, so I don't think it's too much power, though can agree it's very unlucky if all real.

If you get vigged wouldn't that kill the person you babysat? If I was vigi I'd rather shoot a quickhammerer who is probably going to be elimmed ASP anyways than try for you (although I do think you would make a marginally better shot than the avg)

Yes. It would. I felt it was much more likely that I would be vigged, given my state, than guessing the nightkill correctly. Does it mean that either would happen? No. I made a judgment call. If I wasn't widely suspected or townread, I would go for the heal.

This looks like a town mindset to me.


Would vote stan1ey here but I should see what my check says first.

[Fwesnid]

Ah yes,

loud

gunsmith. VOTE: Fwesnid

Unless someone claimed to have recieved a gun from him, my vote goes there.
Loud modifier:

The Loud modifier makes it so if Player A targets Player B at night, Player B will be informed that they were targeted by Player A but not what action was taken. For example, if Player A was a Loud Cop and used it on Player B, Player B would be notified that they were targeted by Player A, but not that they used cop.

A loud gunsmith is immediatly confirmable, since the target will recieve feedback of both having been gifted a gun and having been visited by the player. No feedback on this either means that Fwesnid is scum or that he is town who targeted scum, in which case the vigi (very likely to exist since we have two kills, and Pete looks like a prime vigi target to me given his hammer lol) can shoot the scum at night once Fwesnid says who he targeted.

~~

I am very selfishly happy that Nero died, because he was a big issue in my reads, seeing his flip. Guess we should look at Glitch a bit more closely, although I still don't get Nero's case on him.

That’s not what gunsmith does on this site, confused me too

Oh... okay so it's a gun detector. Why not call it a gun detector then, or "Firearms Inspector" like its "alias" in the wiki page then xD

Aaaaanyway. That is a lot less confirmable than I thought, because there isn't really a way to find his real role out unless he actually catches someone with a gun. That actually brings the question "why did his wagon die yesterday?", though, since people who know that know that it's pretty hard to confirm.

Death death death.
VOTE: Marshmallow Marshall

First Post: Nothing about having been the one visited, no reason to hide me being confscum if that's what you think the role is.
Second Post: After learning what the role does there is nothing about being caught with a gun when you know you've been caught with a gun.

[Fwesnid]

MM was my target.

I was going for a useful innocent.

[Fwesnid]

I feel Lord Ralph / His Replacement should get the honor of hammering or at least speaking this phase before someone else hammers.

I-C-C-M-M
Since I am loud and I did get a result.

Also vengeful would be really weird to tact onto a vigilante from a design perspective, as it'd only be useful in a tiny % of games.

[Fwesnid]

Bell: Forces any above average mod to say "there may have been a mistake"
Mod: there may have been a mistake
Bell: Look at how careless you guys are.

[Fwesnid]

Aren’t moderators obligated to state they made an error if they made one?

Very situational based on the error.
Point is more so that if there was not a mod error that is the best response to your questions.

[Fwesnid]

MM is still scum here and that's coming from someone no longer in a cc with them.
Though I do understand why it's better to not keep moving votes back and forth on them.

VOTE: stan1ey

Npom's solve is roughly where I'm at. Looter instead of ralph.

[Fwesnid]

This is an intent to hammer post.

[Fwesnid]

Not much to say about DDL beyond him choosing to no effort.

[Fwesnid]

forcing my claim by pretending its L-1

It was real.
Looter's and MM's votes didn't show up on the votecount.

[Fwesnid]

I got an inno/Maf-doc.

Since I'm more or less confirmed to be a {alignment} loud gunsmith that player should hold onto their town cred until they see fit.

(Ignore me tunnelling the vig last phase whoops.)

[Fwesnid]

This is where I'm at:

Marshmallow Marshall - confirmed vigi
Glitch - Norwee's word, also isn't w/w with Norwee
JacksonVirgo - DrDolittle and cop claim
Ydrasse - Gunsmith inno
shellyc - both them and reaver are very townie
ralph217 - Main pusher of lapsa/dolittle, specifically lapsa interaction
Titus - Setup spec of Disloyal Roleblocker suggests this is town

Bell
NorwegianboyEE
Hiraki
Almost50
Town looter
NoPowerOverMe
Stan1ey

[Fwesnid]

What specifically about the disloyal rber suggests titus is town, I don't really understand that specific point

They are either
a weakened (loud modifier weakens pretty much any scum) mafia pr after two goon flips who can also get near hard-guiltied by an additional role (No evidence of any other blocking role) which has an incentive to target them,
or a town pr who can get near cleared (and then immediately nk'd).

Also there n1 action on scum Iks, as scum either they wasted it (using on nk target / using it on pete / not using it) or it's an ability good to use on a teammate.

[Fwesnid]

Realizing I should post since twilight's still going.

Hey uh

Why is Ralph out of everyone's PoE? Did I miss something, or is everyone just giving a free pass to the guy who only posts one-liners lol

His lapsa interaction is townie and he was pretty much the main pusher of the wagon on that slot.

is thire a pr claim?

Is it just me misinterpreting the context, or is this post plain wrong PR hunting? I looked at Ralph's ISO to see if I had missed a confirmable PR claim or something like that and saw this instead...

I don't see how it could be "plain wrong pr hunting" since either someone's claimed or there hasn't been one?

[Fwesnid]

gg. I got wrecked with big dumb town reads on the wrong people.

Same for me.