Open 86 - Lovers Multiball (Game Over)

[OpposedForce]

Vote:SomeStrangeFlea

for being strange

[OpposedForce]

Here's a couple more points:

1. There is absolutely no reason why scum would lie about the identity of their lover. This isn't Polygamist.
2. Iceman, the fact that someone is your lover IS enough reason not to vote them. Voting for your lover is despicably anti-town, and without a mass-claim, some people may feel forced to do so.
3. You really think trying to keep track of 22 people (minus you and your lover) will be

less

confusing than 11 pairs?


Supporting:
Crazy
Neko
Farside
DBE

Against:
Cephrir
Pwnz
IcemanE
Charter

I agree with the above post. If town claims their pairs of lovers then we can get tells and judge pairs together on their game making it a bit easier for the town to pick out scumtells and link them to their partner's actions.

In my general opinion the mass claim might be a good idea to help out the town.

[OpposedForce]

Hello peeps

Would having a mass claim really benefit the town or harm them? Personally though I think it really wouldn't make a difference but thats why i'm asking.

Sorry spacecase you were replaced in this game.

I think that we should claim lovers as early as possible because A)With a lynch of one person we could potentially lead a generally useful and townie person to their death who was the partner of the lynched person B)With the connection between two people we can evaluate both of them seeing how the had played the game and could help with deciding a lynch.

Also I'm not sure about Adel's scumtell thing. I don't understand it generally so elaboration would be helpful to why people would change their minds of a early lover mass claim.

[OpposedForce]

unvote: firestarter, vote:OpposedForce

Cause and reason?

[OpposedForce]

Also I'm not sure about Adel's scumtell thing. I don't understand it generally so elaboration would be helpful to why people would change their minds of a early lover mass claim.

Not a good move...

Okay I understand where this is coming from. Revealing the scumtell will only benefit the scum in general. Okay I see it now. I only asked because I was confused on it and only wondered why it would change people's opinions on a early mass claim. My mistake.

[OpposedForce]

Vote: OpposedForce

If this was AITP, you just asked who the king was.

Can you please clarify this? What does the initals AITP stand for and how can it relate to what I said asking who is "the king"

I cannot say anything other in my defence as I've already stated that it was a mistake and I didn't understand what Adel was trying to get at. I relized the mistake and I take it back. Not sure what else to say but I'm a bit surprised how many votes I got in a short amount of time.

[OpposedForce]

EBWOP: Nvm lynch is at thirthteen votes forgot this was a large game <-<

[OpposedForce]

Can you please clarify this? What does the initals AITP stand for and how can it relate to what I said asking who is "the king"

AITP = Assassin in the Palace... it's a mafia variant. You can find it in Little Italy. It applies because just as in that game we have information that we can't let the scum have.

If you don't see what it is, then we can't tell you.

Oh alright. Just on a note I don't ask for other people to tell me things in most games however this game I got a bit confused.

[OpposedForce]

instead of being forced to look for reasons why their scum-partner/lover should be lynched, which we can look back upon and see as weak logic later,

after they claim their partner, they can just say "I don't think we should lynch him because he's my partner." It makes it too easy for the scum, IMO

.

scum's inclined to look thouroughly into everything said about a secret tell.

Even mentioning thinking as scum would think in a game comes off scummy to me. It's been a proven scumtell a couple of times.

unvote - vote: RagingRabbit

Vote:icemanE

Basically being a hypocrit and contradicting yourself while voting another person for the same thing you just did.

[OpposedForce]

He quoted your posts in post #119, dude. Quit stalling.

Yes, I just understood what he was trying to say a moment ago.

Here's the difference I see - I was arguing against a point which would allow the scum to easily excuse themselves from suspicion in defending a partner, in response to a topic which the town was debating from several angles.

RR, on the other hand, essentially revealed that he's thinking as scum - I think it was a slip on his part, he's probably currently looking "Thoroughly into everything said about a secret tell" himself. Posts reveal what's on your mind at the time you write them: mine was focused on preventing ways for scum to protect themselves, while RR's was focused on scum investigating the "secret tell".

Your point in saying that scum will just excuse themselves is basically the same as stating how the scum are thinking. I cannot see how you and Raging Rabbit's posts differ. RR says that their inclined to look throughly on a scumtell while you say that the scum partners aren't going to lynch each other hence stating how the scum are thinking.

Voting for another person for the same thing you just did is hypocritical and blatantly scummy. I'm not going to grab at straws and come up with scenarios on why you voted him but I'm liking where my vote is at the moment.

[OpposedForce]

Fos:pwnz

shameless bandwagoning. Not quite warranting a vote atm but something to take note of.

Unvote:IcemanE
Vote:Crazy

[OpposedForce]

Post 1-8- Supports massclaim and argues for it.
Post 9- Abandons oringal arguement and takes adel's statement about scumtell.
Post 10-13 Votes me and defends scumtell statement
Post 16-17- Post 16 pressures iceman and them post 17 defends adel

I severely doubt Adel is scum. That would mean this whole "secret scumtell" is bull

False dilemma. Adel knowing about the tell and Adel being scum are not exclusive scenarios.

It also flies in the face of him saying that he knows what the scum tell is.

unvote, vote :Crazy

It is possible that someone can be town and not know about it.
It is not possible that someone can be scum and still know about it.

This is not a false dilemma. If Adel is scum, then she's pulling a really weird bluff

.

Post 18- Accuses Iceman of being anti-town for not taking word on Adel's scumtell.
Post 19-22- Keeps pressuring on Iceman claiming he knows fully the scumtell and that iceman is scum for pretending not to notice.

What I see is Crazy defending adel as town as well as the scumtell. Adel isn't even confirmed town and Crazy is already assuming she is and following the scumtell. Attacking a person for a statement from someone and stating their town is pretty scummy.

[OpposedForce]

What I see is Crazy defending adel as town as well as the scumtell. Adel isn't even confirmed town and Crazy is already assuming she is and following the scumtell. Attacking a person for a statement from someone and stating their town is pretty scummy.

This is stupid. Look at it my way:

-Adel knows about said scum-tell and made a point to actually bring it up.
-I have a feeling I know what she is talking about, so a secret scum-tell

does

actually exist.

The only way that Adel is scum is the following:

Adel made up the fact that there is a secret-scumtell and somehow got lucky since there actually

is

one.

I am about 90% sure Adel is town. I am about equally sure Iceman is scum. This post I quoted a second ago really settles it.

There is no way in hell that you can find one person absolutely town from statement. Pressing on a person because they don't know a certian thing is anti-town.

[OpposedForce]

Doing a re-read.
Post coming up

[OpposedForce]

My thoughts on Crazy

Iceman, the following quotes show that you have no idea what we're talking about.

Yes to what adel implied. I would have preferred to keep it less obvious by sort of dancing around it a bit more, but it should work regardless.

Right - it's possible that from other similar games, she knows the tell, meaning she could be scum this game too.

You are pretending to see this scum-tell that Adel mentioned. I don't believe town would do that.

Unvote, Vote IcemanE

Here he accuses IcemanE of not seeing Adel's scumtell and accuses him of being anti-town when he himself didn't even fully know the scumtell.

I am about 90% sure Adel is town. I am about equally sure Iceman is scum. This post I quoted a second ago really settles it:

In previous posts he had defended Adel and buddied up to her even stating that she was confirmed town but in truth it's almost impossible to get a confirmed alignment from one statement because there are so many things to put into consideration. From this kind of thinking he accuses Iceman of being scum as he believes Adel is confirmed town so he accuses Iceman of being scum because he didn't see the scumtell.

Knowing a scumtell has nothing to do with alignment.

Holy crap, you mean I didn't know what you were talking about? Okay, so now I know nothing about your alignment

.

Then it appears that I have a scumtell of my own, then, the one that I've been referring to this whole time. That coincidentally also would work better without a mass-claim and is something that scum would have no idea of. I suggest keeping me alive until Day 3/4 at least so I can reveal what it is. K? If I don't have anything then, you can lynch me. Really, what's the harm in this unless you're scum?

In this post he suddenly comes to terms that he had no real knowledge of the supposed scumtell. In his previous posts he had been attacking and pressuring Iceman for not realizing the scumtell and using his thoughts of Adel being confirmed town and using that agaisnt Iceman.

He proclaims that he had also held a scumtell of his own which "

concidentally

" would work without a massclaim the same as Adel's. In my opinion he came up with this bull claim of withhelding a scumtell of his own at the last second because he knew that he had been wrong about Adel's scumtell so he did this to try to get him out of the spotlight and out of a lynch so it was a gamble to see if anyone would buy it so nobody would lynch him hence why he had said to wait until later in the day so to see if anyone would buy it.

Unvote
Vote Crazy

Lynch me. When I turn up as town, please look at the people who are on my bandwagon with craplogic.

I don't like this. Voting for yourself is suicidal and idiotic. Even if your town then voting yourself to put you closer to a lynch will not only hurt the town but you kill your partner as well. The least you can do is keep a cool head and defend yourself with your own arugement. I see two sides to this either frustrated townie or frustrated scum. With his previous actions I'm leaning towards scum.

In a sum-up he has been OMGUSY evident when he voted Iceman because Iceman had pressured him with evidence and hypocritical for voting a person because they didn't know a certian tell but ironically didn't have full knowledge of the tell either. Also using an arguement including how a person is confirmed town because of one post is foolish and useless. My vote stands.

[OpposedForce]

Whoa alot of things happened. Re-read and post either soon or later today. (Been a bit busy)

[OpposedForce]

Argh. I meant to make a post before but I've been caught up in alot of things. Re-reading a post coming up.

[OpposedForce]

Unvote:Crazy

I still have my suspicions on him but for now I'll unvote.

I've re-read the thread and came upon this.

this is where Crazy revealed his tell

(How many PMs from the mod do you have in your inbox?)

before that additional PMs were never mentioned in the games, except for:

Additionally,

crazy, unless you received some kind of special message after your role PM, the generic townie PM is available for all to see on the first page of this thread. It's the PM is received, so unless you got something extra, you're full of crap.

Please vote and eliminate crazy-scum, it's clear now he's full of shite.

we all got a second PM after our role PM, with the link to the daytalking forum, and that PM is not posted on the first page.

but it gets better,

He never said anything about it being in a PM about a secret scum tell.

Where are you getting this from? Voting patterns wasn't the only thing that is a secret scum tell in this game.

There is a second part.

The difference between townies and scum comes from the role PM they receive at the beginning of the game. As I said, unless the rest of the townies got some special message that I didn't, the tell is based on voting patterns.

Or, as you state, it's possible I am thinking of something different. Regardless, the tell I'm thinking of is only possible if the mass-claim doesn't happen for a few days, so I think what I've got in mind is accurate.

as scum, icemanE knew this game was an open game with the townie role PM posted on the first page. He held on to this belief, but gave himself the out of "unless the rest of the townies got some special message that I didn't" in case Crazy's scumtell was a minor variation between the role PM that was sent and what was posted. It didn't occur to him that there could be a second role PM. If he were a townie he would know that there was an entire message that townies recieved that was not posted on the first page.

as a control, take a look at Sleepy Panda post:

This scumtell discussion is just silly. Does knowing the scumtell make you less scummy? I don't know what it is, does that mean I'm scum? We have two people arguing that they know what the scumtell is and that the other is pretending to know, but they can't say it or it ruins it, so they can't prove if they know it or not. You're not getting anywhere.

Iceman, why are you talking about role PMs and saying that unless Crazy got a special message, he doesn't know what the scumtell is?

There's no other way for Crazy to know what the scumtell is?

Crazy, how are you so sure that Adel is town? There are two scum factions. It's not possible for her to be in one and try to eliminate the other? How do you go from pushing for massclaim, then when Adel mentions the words "secret scumtell", you immediately know what she's talking about and go along with her?

Panda noticed that icemanE placed particular emphasis on the "special message"

so, was icemanE aware of the second PM that gave the quicktopic link?

well, he doesn't make another post until 240 (after the daytalking PM to townies was revealed and talked about), at which point he posts:

PANDA, IT IS SOMETHING THAT ONLY TOWNIES WOULD KNOW!!! I can't say anything more without revealing what it is. Not all townies might catch it, but THERE IS NO CHANCE THAT SCUM WOULD KNOW WHAT IT IS.

This is straight BS. Townies are LESS informed than scum.

How could they possibly have info that scum does not?

If you want me to, I'll reveal what I believe the "secret tell" is - it's hardly a secret, it's something both scum and town could easily figure out if they thought about it for a minute, so knowing the tell does not prove either way that you're town or scum - that's the main problem I have with crazy's crazy bull. Like I have said many many times,

unless crazy recieved some sort of special information the rest of us missed, there's not a game-specific "secret tell"

. The one I'm thinking of could exist in any game of this type. Additionally, it's not an unbeatable, bulletproof tell - it's as valuable as any other, and just as breakable.

Crazy's defense of "keep me alive until at least day 3 so you can see my secret" is trash. Also, the fact that he unvoted me just a few short posts after he said:

I am about 90% sure Adel is town. I am about equally sure Iceman is scum.

is ridiculous.

I think it's worth losing farside (who from my evaluation hasn't done anything awesomely protown or horrifically scummy) to lynch Crazy, who is quite clearly scum.

so did he miss post 199 and all of the conversation about daytalknig and PM's on page 9?

the next post mentioning daytalking icemanE makes is

You thought I was scum for, in your words, "pretending to see a scumtell" which scum apparently had no way of knowing about,

despite the fact that it's equally plausible for both scum and town to think of revealing daytalk after a few days as a scumtell

(I assume you did this to make yourself appear incredibly protown and extend your value-life until at least day 3 (evidenced by your little plea a couple pages back (PWEEZ DON'T WYNCH ME!))). When you realized your scumtell wasn't what ADEL was talking about (who, for some odd reason or another, you've decided is the pillar of the town, proven somehow to be on the town's side without any real backing for that statement) you suddenly retracted all suspicions, only to cast them out again a short while later because you accuse me of "not reading" when I reference earlier posts.

icemanE is trying to run a distraction-based defense. He wants everyone to focus on the daytalking, and not on the number of PMs.

let us review:

(How many PMs from the mod do you have in your inbox?)

this post is the real scum-trap.

Crazy didn't know that the scum also got a second pm!

... and icemanE was worried that something was amended to the version of the pm sent to townies. icemanE did not know there was a second PM sent out to townies with a quicktopic link.

for a while I thought that icemanE was testing Crazy, to see if Crazy would admit to recieving something in addition to his original PM, which would clear clear Crazy.

I agree with this post entirely. At the beggining of the game IcemanE had used a hypocritical vote on RagingRabbit because in his perspective RR had posted a post thinking as scum while he himself had posted a similar post before with the same premise of thinking as scum. Then he makes the post of "unless Crazy had received a extra message then his whole case would be faulty" however as Adel stated all townies received a DT forum to talk with their lovers so Iceman's case on Crazy would be out the window.

Another interesting connection to make is Firestarter putting a misinterprented vote onto RagingRabbit and accusing him of defending Crazy&Farside when he had evidence of Crazy being scum but however the posts that RR was making were justified. This is an interesting connection because RR had susipisions on IcemanE so I think it's safe to assume that Firestarter had tried to put some spotlight on RR with faulty points to get IcemanE out of the spotlight.

I would vote IcemanE but he's -2 from a lynch and I want to hear what other people have to say.

[OpposedForce]

Well it's great to see you slip out of the spotlight.

[OpposedForce]

@OP- What do you think of Crazy? In a previous post you said you had a case on him.

I'm inclined to think that Crazy just slips from view and then joins the nearest bandwagon. I'm still majorly suspicious of him and if given the chance would like to pursue him tommorow because there won't be enough time for this day with deadline approaching.

[OpposedForce]

I'm inclined to think that Crazy just slips from view and then joins the nearest bandwagon.

LOL WUT? I was like the first person ever to be suspicious of Iceman.

LOL WUT? I DONT TINK DAT IS TRUE.

Vote:Crazy

This is basically what's crazy is saying: I want Iceman dead because everybody has their attention on him and I slipped out of view. Lynch him plz.

Crazy is too scummy to ignore. I'm reaffirming my vote.

[OpposedForce]

Regardless of how today's lynch turns out, I think Alabaska is the best player to look deeply into tomorrow. I can see the arguments against the other active lurkers, but Alabaska's posts go so far beyond active lurking that it needs a name all to itself, like "active utter worthlessness". Except for his posts about Iceman, all he does is say "that guy is scum/town" as if that defeats all argument to the contrary:

DO NOT LIKE OP WAGON (NOTE: I UNDERSTAND WHY IT HAS FORMED). GUARANTEE THERE IS SCUJM ON IT.

THAT IS ALL.

Why are so many people still voting Crazy?

Also, crazy (and OP by default) and dybeck are town; stop being stupid guys.

These three are the best of all:

FoS: Firestarter

for his vote on RR out of nowhere…especially because his reasons were wrong…

Hmm.... dybeck coming out of absolutely nowhere to throw down a vote on someone who isn't on either of the wagons, and who hasn't even been discussed as scummy yet... that's scummy.

FoS: dybeck

Very

happy with my vote.

Also, anyone read RR's post saying todsay was really informative like scum trying to keep a lynch from stalling? Almost makes me want to get off the wagon.

FoS: RR

.

So if we're to believe Alabaska here:
Firestarter voting RR out of nowhere is

scummy

Dybeck voting SSF out of nowhere is

not scummy

, but anyone who finds it scummy is

scummy

Alabaska almost voting RR out of nowhere is

pro-town

I would look forward to seeing Alabaska try to explain that, except he'll probably just FoS me for being wrong rather than actually contribute to discussion.

Good points. I see where your coming from. Reading your post I see he's pushed onto somebody with the same action he does later and dosen't give much reason for defending other players. I agree into looking into him tommorow. Good post.

[OpposedForce]

Alabaska is being mostly useless and somewhat contradicts himself to boot

That's my playstyle get used to it jkjk

Alabaska there have been alot of points pinned onto you. Do you have anything to say within your defense about them instead of this? Pretty suspicous to avoid what has been directed at you.

[OpposedForce]

Adel, do you still feel your scumtell is more valuable than a mass claim at this point?

I'm currently of the opinion that we need wider participation in this game right now. I think we should massclaim.

I agree. There's been alot of content in day one and I think a massclaim now would defiantly help out to judge people better when their connected.

[OpposedForce]

I have a suggestion: Should we popcorn if we choose to massclaim? In the game I'm currently in (ongoing) it seemed to work well for a massclaim. Basically we just choose a person to claim their lovers then they choose another person to claim and so forth. Any takers?

[OpposedForce]

I just reread a couple people. OF sticks out badly to me.

Unvote, Vote OpposedForce

.

Also I'm not sure about Adel's scumtell thing. I don't understand it generally so elaboration would be helpful to why people would change their minds of a early lover mass claim.

Here he shows that he doesn't know what the scum-tell was.

And later:

What I see is Crazy defending adel as town as well as the scumtell. Adel isn't even confirmed town and Crazy is already assuming she is and following the scumtell. Attacking a person for a statement from someone and stating their town is pretty scummy.

This is bad. Think back to the mentality of that time as I say this:

OF did not know what the scum-tell was. Thus, how can he really accuse me of confirming Adel as town? He didn't know the scum-tell, so he would have no idea what we were talking about, right? So how could he know that my logic was bad?

Yeah great logic there your pretty much lying to youself here. I didn't know the scumtell and neither did you. The difference between me not knowing the scumtell and you not knowing the scumtell is that you used it to attack a person and confirm adel as confirmed town (don't believe me?)

This is stupid. Look at it my way:

-Adel knows about said scum-tell and made a point to actually bring it up.
-I have a feeling I know what she is talking about, so a secret scum-tell

does

actually exist.

The only way that Adel is scum is the following:

Adel made up the fact that there is a secret-scumtell and somehow got lucky since there actually

is

one.

I am about 90% sure Adel is town

. I am about equally sure Iceman is scum. This post I quoted a second ago really settles it:

Crap case on me. What are you pretending to actually scumhunt and pin crap on me?

Vote:Crazy

[OpposedForce]

OF, the difference between Crazy not knowing the scumtell and you not knowing it is that you knew you didn't know it, while Crazy, I still believe, thought he knew what it was. Crazy said lots of weird things, and putting them in bold might look like you're making a good case, but in context, you're just harping on old news.

Crazy assumed the town knew something the scum didn't, so if he and Adel were thinking the same thing, of course he'd think Adel was town.

Yet he comes out of nowhere with a two posts from early in the game to push on me to make it seem like he's scum hunting. Why attack me out of nowhere when he could of stated this Day 1? The case he has on me is crap and he's going nowhere with it.

[OpposedForce]

@Crazy- Hey Crazy did you know that your full of bullshit? I bet you want to know why. Well step right up and pay attention because what I might show you may just dazzle you

I just reread a couple people. OF sticks out badly to me.

Unvote, Vote OpposedForce

.

Also I'm not sure about Adel's scumtell thing. I don't understand it generally so elaboration would be helpful to why people would change their minds of a early lover mass claim.

Here he shows that he doesn't know what the scum-tell was.

And later:

What I see is Crazy defending adel as town as well as the scumtell. Adel isn't even confirmed town and Crazy is already assuming she is and following the scumtell. Attacking a person for a statement from someone and stating their town is pretty scummy.

This is bad. Think back to the mentality of that time as I say this:

OF did not know what the scum-tell was. Thus, how can he really accuse me of confirming Adel as town? He didn't know the scum-tell, so he would have no idea what we were talking about, right? So how could he know that my logic was bad?

I've already addressed in my previous post. You had stated yourself that you believed Adel to be "90% town" because of a scumtell yet you didn't even respond to it and called my vote on you OMGUS even though your case on me is crap for the following reasons:
A) Your still assuming Adel is pretty much town so I'm going to assume you put the crap case on me just because Adel had voted me so you go ahead and think "Hey Adel's gotta be pro-town so I'll just go ahead and buddy up to her by coming on him with old arugments to make myself seem like I'm scumhunting but in reality I'm just following Adel around."
B)I already understand at this point that you mistaken Adel as confirmed town because you mistaken the scumtell but yet you come back following Adel's instinct and voting me just because Adel did? That's some ridiculous reasons.

Also your probally wondering and saying "Well gee he's got it all wrong. I'm not following Adel and I pinned actually evidence on him so he's just trying to accuse me of following Adel to make me look like scum." Well I got evidence too

I'm calling the Firestarter + IcemanE scum team.

Glory onto me when I'm proven correct.

OF/Wolf should be lynched. I feel sad that nobody listened to my case. Adel, you're voting OF, and I knew if you made a lynching case on him, people would listen to you.

[/buddy up]

So basically your going to follow Adel blindly because a scum pair was managed to be lynched with Adel's contribution and so you think "Hey I'll buddy up on a vote for OF because Adel is always right!" I've already stated that your case is crap on me (see above). Instead of putting 100% trust into someone and then defending them like crazy (no pun intended) how about put your own input instead of grasping at straws.

Wow, cool.

Just one thing, though. If indeed pwnz was a Werewolf, as you're suggesting, that would mean that Adel completely bussed Iceman AND Firestarter, since she posted a lynching case on both of them. And since bussing really isn't that effective in a multiball game, I don't see that as very likely. So if Adelpwnz is scum, I'd bet on mafia over werewolf.

That would mean, though, that pwnz wasn't buddying up to his scum-partner, he was buddying up to a random non-buddy. That is still a tell, but I believe it to be extremely weak.

The rest of pwnz's posts speak out more like "stupid troll" rather than scum. I mean, wouldn't any real scum actually

try

to look helpful, and not bandwagon mindlessly, causing suspicion to pile on him?

And if you tell me that's WIFOM, I'll slap you. It's not, because nobody ever thinks obvious scummy behavior as a town tell except me, so pwnz could not possibly be looking to elicit that response.

Another thing, what's with everyone saying "OMG DBE PUT ICEMAN AT L-1 SCUM SCUM SCUM?" I mean, he was going to be lynched anyway no matter what, right? It was like 48 hours until deadline. (That's why I didn't find that one pwnz quote you quoted suspicious; I would have said the same thing)

And don't you try to find scumminess in this post, charter. Because I know you're just going to say OMG CRAZY AND PWNZ ARE SCUM PARTNERS.

What a total defense of Pwnz here Crazy. Also what a strange concidence that Pwnz just happens to be the partner of Adel. Trying to get Pwnz out of the spotlight there Crazy? Also your part when you say it isn't WIFOM IS IRONICALLY WIFOM. (The bolded part) Your basically saying that scum won't bandwagon mindlessly and try to act clean cut which is total WIFOM because at this point you can't determine how the scum's playstyle is going to act. That kind of WIFOM will lead to more WIFOM. Take for example I say that Pwnz is most likely town for appearing scummy behavior of mindlessly bandwagoning when the same can apply that Pwnz is bandwagoning alot is trying to seem too scummy to be seen as scum and will be seen as town thus resulting in Wifom.

Also as another note I saw that you just convienetly slipped out of sight and pushed for a lynch other then your own. In my opinion you were way to eager for a lynch to happen.

Umm, what's the point? Does it make any difference if the lynch happens now or in 46 hours?

Why hasn't the wagon moved back to Crazy yet? Everyone should ask themselves this question. Ridiculous, if you ask me. Even after I blew Adel's case apart, I'm still up for lynch. What will it take to get you to realize how flawed it is? Only thing left to do is wait to die, I guess. Lol. Freakin' good game while it lasted.

Pff, when a wagon gets past 10 votes, it's almost certainty that that person will be lynched eventually. I don't believe the case on you has been blown apart. Even if it has, the case on Firestarter

hasn't

been blown apart.

Basically you were just eager for the lynch to happen so all you had to do was sit back, relax and watch as you slipped out of the spotlight and was convienetly on the biggest bandwagon avalible. Crazy at this point I can't see how your not scum. I rest my case.

[OpposedForce]

I don't believe Adel to be automatically pro-town, since the scum-tell wasn't something that scum couldn't think of. Right? If I believed she was automatically pro-town, then why isn't Adel/pwnz ahead of WWB/RR on my list?

She is high on my pro-town side because of her pro-town actions, not her scum-tell. If you think Adel to be scummy, you'll need some reasons. I tend to go with my gut and with my mind, and both say that Adel is likely pro-town.

And you don't understand WIFOM at all. Pwnz could not have expected anyone to perceive his mindless bandwagoning and personal attacks to be pro-town. There's no reason that scum would go out of there way to look scummy, because

nobody

would ever think that acting incredibly scummy looked pro-town.

And I'm not following Adel. My case is on my own merits. I noticed that Adel was also voting you, and since she's much better with words than I am, I was hoping she could explain the case against you

.

Whoa whoa whoa whoa. Let's back up a bit. You see the bolded part? Yeah major contradiction on yourself. You say that your case is on your own merits correct? Okay you made your own case HOWEVER you state you noticed Adel voting for me at around the same time and you were hoping that she would explain the case agaisnt me? Why not just explan it better yourself? Are you hoping that she'll be with you agaisnt me? I'm not trying to guess or assume a scenario but around the same time Adel had voted me (early Day 2) you later put the vote on me when all through Day 1 you hadn't even discussed anything about me except my mistake on the scumtell and just disappered onto the safest bandwagon. I'm not trying to make an assumpation here on false tense but it can't be a concidence that "it just happened."

On your WIFOM argument on Pwnz- Okay fair enough. I'll admit I've mistaken the whole part onto Pwnz for his bandwagoning and seemed to falsely place WIFOM onto the arugment.. However your defense of him is noted especially with him being the partner of adel.

Also on your statement about believing Adel to be pro-town- Obviously everybody here get's pro-town vibes from people however you've been buddying up to adel way too much (see above and check your own post when you said that you wanted adel to make a case agaisnt me) It's ridiculous that you would want to vote for me just because you trust adel's instinct (see above and check your own post) And also to answer your question whether I think adel is pro-town or not: my thoughts on adel are mixed. On one side I like how adel generates discussion and shows some logical arguments however on the other side I don't like how adel leads the town around to whatever he wants (leading the bandwagon on DBE for L-1 even though he seemed to be assured on IcemanE/OP being scum).

Ugh, simpulpost. I need to look over OF and wolf again. OF, it seems that you've already decided Crazy is scum and you're just looking for reasons why. You're making lots of assumptions here. In fact, your first two points on Crazy are based entirely on assumptions. Your 'evidence,' I think, is taken out of context so that it conveniently fits your assumptions.

(read above post)

[OpposedForce]

So, according to OF, Crazy and I are scum because Crazy agrees with Adel, and wanted Adel to help get you lynched. Which is a sly way of implicating Adel as well.
Now, I'm bowing to lover ^ boy here on this, I don't like Adel and pwnz much, for town-leading and annoyingness/anti-town respectively, but to me it looks like you're trying to leap onto a wagon that's already stopped, OF.
Also, that bolded section isn't a contradiction, OF.
I think Crazy was trying to say: "This is why I'm voting for OF, Adel has her own reasons, which she should probably explain." I might be wrong there, but that's how I read it.

No I'm not voting Crazy just on the sole reason of agreeing with Adel and then following her lead but it is one of the main factors of my argument. Let me illiterate. Crazy had been buddying up to adel throughout this current day. Crazy even acknowledged of Adel's case on me and so due to his previous interactions Day 1 with adel I can't just pass it off as a concidence. Also I didn't like Crazy's behavior at the deadline stage where he just acts all smug and pushes for the biggest bandwagon out there. I've already stated my reasons. Also your accusation of me just jumping onto a dead bandwagon is faulty although I can only see the accusation of that made on me because your defending Crazy as my lover. Again I have my reasons for why I'm voting Crazy.

I voted for you due to my own suspicions. I had noticed Adel had voted you before, but unless if Adel was my lover, I would never take her suspicions over my own. My case on you was independent of hers.

I just thought that if we're both suspicious of the same person, maybe she could help me get you lynched

.

I do have a tendency to fight against wagons that I don't like, or I think is scum-driven. I believe this one is.

Wow that bolded part makes you incredibly scummy. You planned to push a lynch on me with the assitance of adel's logic. Your depending on adel too much and instead of following him like a blind dog how about play the game with your own facts. You say your case is independant but your just harping onto hold things and when adel votes me you'll spring back up with everything and vote me because he did too. You've even acknowledge his vote on me and even planned to get me lynched with his assitance. I don't know what to say with this crap.