Open 81 - The New C9 - Game Over

[Battle Mage]

picked up prod. will post shortly. oh, and HI!

BM

[Battle Mage]

oh

POPSICLES

....sorry. I didnt realise the game was still in night!

-Mod Edit: Please keep profanity to a minimum.

[Battle Mage]

oh

POPSICLES

....sorry. I didnt realise the game was still in night!

-Mod Edit: Please keep profanity to a minimum.

thats some...erm...good editting skills....

Do you think you might wanna put them to good use by fixing the OP?

BM

[Battle Mage]

oh shit....sorry. I didnt realise the game was still in night!

It's actually day right now, so it's OK to post.

yeh i guessed lol. I was just trying to subtly hint that the OP said it was still night.

BM

[Battle Mage]

sorry need to get organised. will post more tomorrow.

BM

[Battle Mage]

bm looks like active lurking scum

Why?

Yeh, i think he missed the fact that i'm neither scum, nor 'active' atm. You only have to look at my recent posting to see that i haven't had as much time as i'd like for MS.

Lurking, i'll give you, but there's not alot i can say until i've READ THE GAME. -.-

BM

[Battle Mage]

iron man is obviously town. obviously.

i appreciate the killa seven vigging.

the random vote stage is unnecessary as we will be lynching strife today.

vote: strife220

I lol'd. This post shows that even the weakest of players can make insightful points.

BM

*If you hadnt guessed, im starting to read now...

[Battle Mage]

iron man is obviously town. obviously.

Why?

this is scummy. i'll tell you why when you're older.

You realize that with no reason stating X is town on page 1 with no logic is actually an EXTREMELY anti-town move as there are 3 possible scenarios regarding it.

A) You are a cop claiming on page one. I currently doubt anyone would be dumb enough to do this.

B) You are scum trying to set up an "I told you so" or protect a scum partner with no reasoning. For this exact reason what you did gains you know town points under any circumstances.

C) You are a townie, and you have just looked like Group B.

ok armlx, you're older now.

you remember what you got on iron man's case for in the first place?

its a little thing called ROLEFISHING. and its what you proceeded to DO when you asked me that question.

it just so happens that i simply have a town read on iron man so far, but i decided to make it look like there was more because the simple fact is, anyone who asked me why i was so sure was TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IF I'M A COP. i set a trap, and you took the bait hook line and sinker.

unvote, vote: armlx

as people check into the thread, they should still be answering my question of whether they think armlx or strife is scummier.

why does everyone seem to think that its such a bad thing to force this game into real play mode instead of letting the random voting stage happen anyway?

@korts, i'll finish this discussion with you after everyone else on the player list has posted in thread. don't think i'm ignoring you.

That said, this man is clearly town. Just the arrogant way he is playing feels like a trip down memory lane for me.

And Armlx's list of scenarios was far from conclusive, although one of his posts on Page 1 was significantly more solid.

BM

[Battle Mage]

That said, this man is clearly town. Just the arrogant way he is playing feels like a trip down memory lane for me.

Spoiler: He claims mason.

Claims? So do i take it that you don't believe him?

Also, Tip: The best spoilers are ones that save you reading the actual book/thread. Can i please have 1 of those?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Claims? So do i take it that you don't believe him?

No, I definitely do. Claim is the generic term for saying your role in thread.

I'm willing to wait for a final analysis from Muerrto before a lynch.

Ok, i guess it was your tone which led me astray. And perhaps the way you said 'He CLAIMED Mason' rather than 'He IS A Mason' which you might have done, if you believed his claim. Just a thought.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Except I used it as a descriptor of his actions in thread.

to what end?

and, also, why do you want to wait for a final analysis from Muerrto, when you seem to be his top suspect?

BM

[Battle Mage]

to what end?

Mainly as a joke, partially to get you to move along past things that were determined a long time ago

Ok thanks. You didnt answer my second question.

BM

[Battle Mage]

and, also, why do you want to wait for a final analysis from Muerrto, when you seem to be his top suspect?

I have issues other then self-preservation on my mind? I'd rather not go into why and how a game analysis pre-lynch is relevant until after he posts it, but is there a reason I shouldn't want it posted other then him thinking I am scum?

If you are town, self-preservation should be an important enough issue in itself. In fact, that applies regardless of affiliation. Which is why i find your behaviour odd. As far as an explanation goes, i can wait until tomorrow, as it seems the consensus for today is with Muerrto anyway.

BM

[Battle Mage]

If you are town, self-preservation should be an important enough issue in itself.

This is where you are wrong. Self preservation is second to finding the scum as town, if not further down the line.

I'm interested why you are so assured that both of us are town, as that is the only scenario in which your concern applies.

The assumption of Muerrto being town was inferred by you, and your intrigue into his suspicions. The assertion of you being town was a scenario used to portray why i felt your comment was far from in the interest of the town.

Furthermore, i don't believe i ever said that self-preservation is more important than finding scum. But then, given Muerrto has already outlined his suspicions quite succinctly, the only real impact i can see of him providing more analysis would be to the end of proving you are scum. Which, unless you consider YOURSELF to be scum, cannot be considered encouraging scumhunting.

Personally, if i am town, and the individual about to be lynched is naming me as their number one suspect, i tend not to try and encourage them to push this belief. However, you apparently see merit in Muerrto continuing to attack you, which will, if you are town, serve to distract the consensus, at the very least. I don't like people who openly encourage blind participation.

That said, i await your findings with eager anticipation!

BM

[Battle Mage]

If you are town, self-preservation should be an important enough issue in itself. In fact, that applies regardless of affiliation. Which is why i find your behaviour odd. As far as an explanation goes, i can wait until tomorrow, as it seems the consensus for today is with Muerrto anyway.

BM

Hi there. Actually, self preservation isn't really that important for non power roled town. Heck, even power roled town still has to put finding and lynching scum first (which in itself is preservation) A townie only looking out for themselves becomes useless quick except for their number. It also makes them scummy since the scum's game IS self preservation. To suggest that self preservation is an important issue with town is just wrong.

Oh, and also, Muerrto's analysis could provide some big hints no matter his alignment. I have...recently learned that more information before a lynch is generally better.

Hi!
You raise a valid point, which kind of intertwines with mine. You point out that hunting scum, leads to self-preservation. My point is that self-preservation as a townie is conducive to hunting scum. I've learnt from a seemingly infinite series of lynches as town, that the main reason towns lose games is because townies ACT SCUMMY. Now, my point is that, if every member of the town can avoid looking scummy, they will avoid lynch, and we have a great shot at nailing the scum. Armlx, however, seems to be doing the exact opposite-by encouraging a case on himself, he is not only NOT SCUMHUNTING but he is also setting HIMSELF up as a lynch candidate.
I should point out that "only Scum want to survive" is a complete myth. Anybody who plays a Mafia Game should want to survive. Granted, the usefulness of each member of the Mafia is greater, and thus there loss is more significant, but this is hardly the greatest scumtell to use when trying to differentiate between the two!
And yes, i'm not trying to say that Muerrto's comments will not be helpful. I am merely saying that i find Armlx's reaction towards him peculiar. Although this IS Armlx, so you have to expect fairly scummy looking play.

BM

[Battle Mage]

BM, you're saying that armlx is deliberately trying to set himself up as a lynch candidate, just because he's willing to give Muerrto a last opportunity at saying his opinion? Why are you so afraid of Muerrto's last words?

Umm, HELLO? We have 2 weeks till deadline!
I dont see why there would be ANY rush to end the day, but then, i'm not on the wagon, so i wouldnt know.
I really wanna have a look at where the votes lie at this point, because i think we could potentially draw alot of conclusions.
It's not like Muerrto is under any real time constraint to post his comments. But, Armlx's stance on Muerrto's opinions seems completely inexplicable to me.
Can you please explain your last question, because i dont really understand where is it derived from?

Thanks,
BM

[Battle Mage]

BM, you're saying that armlx is deliberately trying to set himself up as a lynch candidate, just because he's willing to give Muerrto a last opportunity at saying his opinion? Why are you so afraid of Muerrto's last words?

This, kinda. I mean, if someone was about to be lynched naming me as their top suspect, rather than railroad the lynch and leave people wondering, I'd have them say their piece. I could use the night to construct a defense against it (or even defend that day), and come out looking townier pending a good defense. This is good for town and scum, really.

I disagree. Where is the value in a case being produced, if the best case scenario is that is completely refuted? It seems ridiculously awkward from where i'm sitting. Not to mention a major waste of time (although admittedly, we have plenty atm). I'll continue reading.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I disagree. Where is the value in a case being produced, if the best case scenario is that is completely refuted? It seems ridiculously awkward from where i'm sitting. Not to mention a major waste of time (although admittedly, we have plenty atm). I'll continue reading.

The value is that self preservation you cite. Dealing with cases strengthens one's position, or weakens it irreparably, possibly catching scum. Clever scum might break a case and get stronger positioned, but generally there will be a screw up somewhere. I said it was good for scum to entertain cases, but only if they think they can keep themselves above suspicion afterwards.

Perhaps. But then i would have thought that, if Armlx was going to refute said case against him from Muerrto, he would already have done so. But, as i said earlier, this does seem like the kind of thing i'd expect from Armlx meta-wise.

BM

[Battle Mage]

BM, you're saying that armlx is deliberately trying to set himself up as a lynch candidate, just because he's willing to give Muerrto a last opportunity at saying his opinion? Why are you so afraid of Muerrto's last words?

Umm, HELLO? We have 2 weeks till deadline!
I dont see why there would be ANY rush to end the day, but then, i'm not on the wagon, so i wouldnt know.
I really wanna have a look at where the votes lie at this point, because i think we could potentially draw alot of conclusions.
It's not like Muerrto is under any real time constraint to post his comments. But, Armlx's stance on Muerrto's opinions seems completely inexplicable to me.
Can you please explain your last question, because i dont really understand where is it derived from?

Thanks,
BM

What has deadline got to do with this? I'm not rushing this, your shock/suspicion at armlx for waiting for Muerrto's analysis does, however, make it seem like you'd rather have it ended now. That's where the question is derived from.

Not at all. I think you've completely misunderstood here. My point was not that Muerrto shouldnt analyse Armlx, but that Armlx encouraging him to do so seemed odd. I don't really see how you reached any other conclusion...

BM

[Battle Mage]

I don't get BM's point at all. Armix said he wanted to wait for Muerrto's analysis before considering the hammer. I would have considered it scummy for him to hammer without letting Muerrto have a final say, regardless of what Muerrto flipped.

That's not exactly what i meant. Firstly, i was under the impression that Muerrto had given more reasoning against Armlx than mere WIFOM. Secondly, I wasnt aware that Armlx was not already voting for Muerrto.

Mod, Vote Count please

BM

[Battle Mage]

The assumption of Muerrto being town was inferred by you, and your intrigue into his suspicions. The assertion of you being town was a scenario used to portray why i felt your comment was far from in the interest of the town.

Furthermore, i don't believe i ever said that self-preservation is more important than finding scum. But then, given Muerrto has already outlined his suspicions quite succinctly, the only real impact i can see of him providing more analysis would be to the end of proving you are scum. Which, unless you consider YOURSELF to be scum, cannot be considered encouraging scumhunting.

As for the assumption of Muerrto = town, I did not assume anything of the sort. I left the door open in case it is true, that is all.

You are voting for him, and seem content enough with his lynch today. Why then would you want his comments UNLESS you thought he was town?

Armlx, however, seems to be doing the exact opposite-by encouraging a case on himself, he is not only NOT SCUMHUNTING but he is also setting HIMSELF up as a lynch candidate.

If my actions were legitimately scummy enough to warrant a case, they would be noticed later. What does it matter if the case is now or later? Its probably even better if the case is made now, as any refutations and responses I make now are less likely to be lost in a flood of other behavior, and tunnel vision is less likely to happen.

Actually, i'd beg to differ. Because you are setting yourself up as the target at the end of a day, where the lynch is all but decided, you are opening yourself up for attack, and tunnel-vision is MORE likely. Admirable if you are town, perhaps. But its not what i'd expect others to do, nor what i would do myself.

if Armlx was going to refute said case against him from Muerrto, he would already have done so.

If he had posted one, I would, but his only attack so far is "You are too good to be voting me right now".

I rescind all previous assertions. That's what i get for skimming i guess. But that's the easiest case in the world to pin on someone like you. Not buying it in the least.

BM

[Battle Mage]

My point was not that Muerrto shouldnt analyse Armlx, but that Armlx encouraging him to do so seemed odd.

You may think it odd, but is it even possibly a scummy action.

As i pointed out earlier, blindly encouraging participation is certainly scummy.

BM

[Battle Mage]

So, anyway, how are you doing on your reread, BM? You seemed to have gotten sidetracked by discussing armix's motives.

Jordan got back today, so i figure he probably wants to hop back in asap. Thanks for having me, and i'm sure i'll see you all around

Good Luck,

BM

[Battle Mage]

wait...i was in this game? :S