Open 81 - The New C9 - Game Over

[Muerrto]

Hey guys, will try and read and post tonight

[Muerrto]

Grr..sorry people will post tonight, just started a new job and finished moving etc, busy

[Muerrto]

This is kind of disjointed because it's as I read it:

Wow. Roflcopter...WTF. Armlx didn't fish for your role and claiming IM is town on page 1? I'll tell you when you're older? Geez dude drop the arrogance. Anyone who claims they found scum on page 1 is scum. I'll see if that opinion changes as we go along.

Armlx asking why Rofl thought IM was town isn't demanding an investigation result! It's asking how the hell you get a town read on someone on page 1. Korts joins the club with Rofl for post #35.

Iamusername comes in and smacks down Kort AND Rofl, townie points and 100% correct post.

Again rofl with crap logic. The only reson they ask why is X obv town means they're asking if you're a power role??? What the...NO the reason they ask is because they wanna know why the hell you'd claim someone obv town on page 1. It was such a god awful post he wanted to know how much crack you smoked before the game.

I don't like Rofl so far but Blak adding to him without content is bad.

I get what Lowell's going for with the masons but the logic's off. Sorry but Armlx's next post is dead on as to why.

And lo and behold Rofl claims mason, I'm quite okay with testing that myself at this point but we'll see how that changes. What a horribly bad claim.

Rofl goes off on Stranger unvoting even though IM confirming him means jack and squat since they could both be scum and Rofl is nowhere near a lynch at this time.

Um..Armlx didn't rolefish you, you came out in your very first post and said 'My mason partner is obv town' with no reason behind it. If you ARE a mason I feel sorry for IM.

so i repeat, please stop being retarded and unvote before you get yourself lynched in armlx's place.

Mason or not I already don't like you, personally. You step in and basically say 'We're lynching who I want so suck it up or you're next' How the hell is that A. pro-town or B. encouraging enjoyment of the game.

Stranger votes Lowell for 'rolefishing' but he didn't fish it from anyone in particular and he stated his reasons that while flawed make some sense. Don't like Stranger doing this especially right after Forbid mentions it.

Blak unvotes when called out on his vote but still gives no reason for giving it in the first place.

Ok, Mason or not, Roflcopter's ego is insanely annoying. Do you read your own posts? You're also willing to quickly jump on anyone who jumped on you BEFORE your claim. Townies can't vote for someone who claims someone's obv town on page 1? Never seen a mason claim that early, wow. So bad.

Did I miss somewhere that said the masons in this game get an investigation? Whether they're claimed masons or not means jack. It means they're not LYING in their posts. It doesn't mean they're automatically RIGHT. The whole town is taking Rofl's word for gospel. How does he have more info than you do? Bad plays all around.

he claimed because Lowell asked the masons to claim and he happened to be one.

In that case, he is just dumb for listening to Lowell.

QFT. I can't believe he did. And I'm notorious for claiming early.

Um..Greasy, how does outing the Masons provide cover for the other roles? With the masons(glorified townies that can talk at night, by your own words) outed, the scum have that much higher chance of hitting a power role. Why would the scum kill the masons?

Don't like Blak's post again. Massively lurking and contributing nothing.

Forbid: Claiming vanilla helps the scum period. Townies don't(or shouldn't) lie about their role, period. So now the scum has 1 less target after losing 2 masons. Great shot at hitting some power roles. It is most definitely anti-town. Not scummy, anti-town.

OK, so IAUN tackled that one and Forbid responded in the correct way. His votes should be dropping off now from the large town tell.

Dear god how horrible a player is Vamp(me). Does he plan on contributing?

Hate Lowell's strat for the masons but like how he calls Korts and Forbid town. I'm getting the same thing so far after Forbid's last post especially. Kind of mid ground on Korts.

Stranger OMGUS's Forbid after he's shown some good town tells. He was also voting Lowell before he did it. Not liking Stranger.

Jesus Vamp comes in and just unvotes?

I can't tell if Greasy is legitimately upset or obv scum. Too stupid to be a townie? You're kidding.

Well, since I'm town I greatly dislike the rapid wagon forming on me. Especially Stranger's and IM's but sadly it seems IM always plays like this, contributing little and popping in for a vote. And since he's a 'mason' it looks worse on Stranger. Although Vamp is playing horribly.

Blak comes in, puts in no content at all and hypocritically FoS's Vamp and offers to vote him later when the town's okay with it.

Kort didn't rolefish. Armlx screwed up and confirmed he couldn't NOT be the vig because he likes killing night 0 and Kort read it wrong and said he confirmed he's NOT the vig. Not only was Kort wrong but he simply confirmed what he thought Armlx had already said. Bad to point it out? Yes. Scummy? No, if he was scum he could PM his buddies tonight and kill Armlx then if he thought he was the vig. Since he didn't push his lynch or anything, why would that make him scummy?

FL, I never assume stupid scum, and when I see someone doing something blatantly anti-town, I can't help but call them out for stupidity. Also, I realize now that I completely misinterpreted armlx's post, so he hasn't, in fact, tacit claimed non-vig.

Case in point.

IAUN: I have no scum read on you whatsoever but Kort never rolefished. He confirmed what Armlx had already said(wrong but till). Pretend Armlx HAD been against a night 0 kill. Then HE'S the own who accidently claimed non-vig. Kort reapeating it was stupid, not rolefishing, and not scummy(as stated above about him being able to PM and all).

Ok, I don't like Rofl's ego but I HAD to quote this post:

in re: the vig fishing, it was not a smart comment, but it was not something i see as rolefishing.

The rest of the post about Blak possibly slipping comments to his scum buddies is off because as I've stated many times, SCUM CAN PM!!! Why'd he mention it during the day for the town instead of waiting for night to PM? Do I still think he's scummy? Of course. But not for this.

Stranger leaps onto Blak off Vamp when his wagon starts to die off. Anyone seen how many wagons Stranger's been on? Geez.

'I don't want to be replaced'??? Are you TEN? Jesus what have I got to work with here?

@Forbid: You see Vamp as scum at this point or a bad player? Don't lynch a bad player just because they don't contribute. Lynch scum.

@fl: policy lynches (lynching Vamp because he's not likely to play insightfully) are bad for town, because policy lynching draws attention away from scumhunting, while also declaring the necessity for someone to die regardless of alignment. This does not lead to winning. I'm explaining this nicely to you because you seem fresh.

More town points for Kort. How is he still the lynch, Armlx? He never rolefished, you should know better than that. He stupidly spouted out info the scum didn't need but that doesn't make him scummy. See Ting in our last game, the Xxyzz one. He wasn't scum but he certainly told the scum exactly what to do in each situation. Everyone chewed him out for it but he wasn't lynched for it because he wasn't scum.

@Forbid: How was Vamp scummy? He was a bad player? He voted for wagons? But how is adding 1 vote to a random wagon going to lynch someone? He never pushed anyone's lynch, he never even gave content. He was simply a bad player. And I'm quite glad he was replaced.

Um...Korts, Rofl has been setting up day 2 and 3 lynches all game. Even suggesting Vig/SK kills. So if he's doing it as town, why does that make Armlx scum?

Stranger jumps on Armlx wagon. Is anyone keeping count how many wagons he's jumped any more?

I like the Vig directing actually but I'd like it on IM because:

A. He's lurking as bad as Vamp and not contributing anything.

B. I wanna test the masons.

One dead mason instead of the Vig possibly accidently hitting a power role randomly is a good trade and if they ARE pulling a risky as hell scum gambit, we'll know then. Saying wait till LYLO is all well and good but what if they ARE scum and we get to LYLO? Do we kill a mason to test then? When it'll cost us the game? I think not.

This way we don't waste our lynch on them though since the chance is slim they're scum.

Silence pops up, promises a post, disappears...I really hate lurkers. Not saying he's scum. Saying I hate lurkers on a personal level.

Point b) is total crap, since Greasy Spot has never presented any case against me besides "too stupid to be a townie", which is in fact not a case at all.

Point c/d) is also crap, because as I said, I'm in favour of a Vamp vig as well.

Point a) is also wrong, for the record.

Also, "trying to undermine the majority" is not a scum tell. Anything else?

He's my new hero. The case at this point is extremely weak and being run by the person who voted him because he's 'too stupid to be a townie' which I called him out for earlier in my post. This wagon is bad.

Um..Stranger wants Lowell to explain his claim of tunnel vision by GS? Are you joking? He's been tunnelling IAUN all game!

I dislike everyone saying directing the Vig or talking about the Vig etc is pointless and wrong and scummy. As I stated earlier, using the Vig to test the masons is pretty much the only way we can be sure they won't both be there in LYLO. Does it have to be tonight? No. But if the Vig dies we'll have to waste a lynch on a mason eventually, and I'd much rather waste a Vig kill than a lynch. If someone can explain to me in great detail why this plan is bad, please do so.

Stranger looks worse with his FoS to Lowell for something that has nothing to do with him being scum or not.

Blak jumps on Stranger when the momentum starts getting stronger. Bussing? I hope so because I still think Stranger's scummier than hell.

AYYYY! It's the Fonz!

Seriously OMG IM comes in says he has nothing for us, doesn't want to be replaced(in case his replacement misses they claimed masons? a stretch but Rofl has been saying his 'untouchable' 'confirmed townie' thing ad nauseam) and leaves. Perfect Vig test, period. WTF.

Stranger's the Vig? Hm...Well obviously the Vig isn't going to counter claim him. And we can't lynch him. But do I buy it? Hell no.

But in better news, the Vig can kill Stranger tonight if he's lying.

That said, if SC is lying, there is no reason to counter claim or lynch her. Real vig just NK's.

More townie points for Armlx. Where is his wagon coming from?


In summary. Lynch Blak, Vig Iron. Directing the vig is NOT scummy. Vamp was a GOD AWFUL player. Testing the masons is 100% necessary before LYLO. Vig obv kills Stranger if he's lying.

Good day 1 so far, needs to end though. Not seeing the case on Korts per my post. How does everyone not have Blak on your list of scum?

Vote: Blak

[Muerrto]

Vig Iron.

Where is this coming from? Vig claimed mason N1 seems poor.

And when the vig dies we either:

A. lose a lynch to test them

B. don't test them and hope

Sorry. I don't like either of those. It's a good a use of the Vig as any and it saves us from the 2 above choices.

Also, could you comment on the rest of the post? You too IAUN.

[Muerrto]

Muerrto, you forgot C. The SK tests them for us or the mafia kills them because we assume/know they are town.

Why? Masons are simply townies who can PM. If I was mafia OR an SK there's no way I'd waste my kill on a mason instead of hunting a power role. And Stranger(assuming he's legit) is outed so he's dead most likely tonight so we WILL be wasting a lynch to test them later. Where's the disadvantage to testing them now? He's already a claimed mason, he's NOT contributing, so he doesn't affect the day or the night, yes?

[Muerrto]

I am NOT happy with Muerrto encouraging a vig on IM. Firstly, it'd be terrible for scum to claim masons D1 in a large game with a SK. They'd never make it to endgame. Secondly - they won't both make it to end game, town or scum. Masons are too powerful end-game for scum (mafia or SK) to leave them alive. There's certainly no rush to 'test' their masonry.

Point b) is total crap, since Greasy Spot has never presented any case against me besides "too stupid to be a townie", which is in fact not a case at all.

Point c/d) is also crap, because as I said, I'm in favour of a Vamp vig as well.

Point a) is also wrong, for the record.

Also, "trying to undermine the majority" is not a scum tell. Anything else?

He's my new hero. The case at this point is extremely weak and being run by the person who voted him because he's 'too stupid to be a townie' which I called him out for earlier in my post. This wagon is bad.

What? This is IAUN responding to my saying his direct on the vig was scummy. I wasn't voting him, it wasn't a case, I certainly wasn't voting him because he's 'too stupid to be a townie' (since I wasn't voting him at all). And there is no wagon. So you seem to have completely misread this, but came to a nice solid conclusion ('he's you're hero') anyway? This to me is scummy - like you're not actually reading what's being said and just fitting your statements together so that they'll appear concrete. Please elaborate on how you made your conclusions and what you mis-read.

No. The train is being engineered by GS, despite whatever you said about IAUN. GS's reasoning was 'he's too stupid to be a townie' which I SPECIFICALLY mentioned in my post. Has nothing to do with you.

As for the masons, having a different opinion isn't scummy. If we don't test the masons, we'll regret it later, all I'm going to say about that since I'm in the minority. But I will be sure to say I told you so when it comes up.

[Muerrto]

No. The train is being engineered by GS, despite whatever you said about IAUN. GS's reasoning was 'he's too stupid to be a townie' which I SPECIFICALLY mentioned in my post. Has nothing to do with you.

You quoted a post where IAUN was responding directly to me about a post that I made. How does that have anything to do with GS and nothing to do with me?

Um because you weren't running the train on him. You joined the train. I even said, why are people joining this wagon. It was GS's wagon to begin with and for horrible reasons.

[Muerrto]

Scum Muerrto: Wait, people don't like the idea of testing the mason's? Ok, I'll back down and fit in and listen to the town.

Town Muerrto: You're all wrong, period. If they live till LYLO and cause us a loss it's on all of your heads and I'll be sure to say I told you so.

Hence:

As for the masons, having a different opinion isn't scummy. If we don't test the masons, we'll regret it later, all I'm going to say about that since I'm in the minority. But I will be sure to say I told you so when it comes up.

Anyone voting or even CONSIDERING voting me for that is scummy and looking to start a wagon(except Rofl apparently according to everyone else and maybe he's just playing poorly like the first 20 pages, he seems to leap around alot on who he thinks is scum).

@Armlx: This is completely in character for me. I don't give a crap what everyone else thinks, I know I'm right and if they're scum and win because of it then it's gonna suck.

@Rofl: You're right, I can't stand you just from reading your posts. BUT, you're contributing and your partner(be it mason or scum) isn't, period.

There's 4 scum. Anyone who thinks the mason plan isn't sheer genius on the part of the scum is the one's who retarded. You can look at how the whole town immediately cleared them both to see that.

[Muerrto]

No mason would claim in his first post IMO but hey...

[Muerrto]

No mason would claim in his first post IMO but hey...

roflcopter claimed mason on his ninth post.

He said IM was obv town in his first post. That's his claim.

However, vigging/lynching them now doesn't make any sense. We can do that later, there is the possibility that we get lucky and confirm them by lynch three scummies early. And if we have a cop (or two), he can test them tonight or later. Also, the argument of using the vig kill so that 'we don't have to waste a lynch' is bad, wasting a vig kill is as bad (or worse) as wasting a lynch.

Having a different opinion is scummy if that opinion is clearly harmful to town.

FoS: Muerrto

Did you say a lynch = a vig kill? Cause I'd like to differ please.

lynching muerrto would be a great move right now. lest you all forget, he replaced someone who was under quite a bit of scrutiny already, his replacement doesn't wipe the slate clean of vamp's actions.

Can you list his actions? I thought he was scummy because he HAD NO actions. That doesn't quite apply to me.

I'm not saying you're scum but your logic sucks.

Your thinking is horribly, horribly wrong.

That's your opinion. But at least you realise it's not scummy to have one.

[Muerrto]

Shrug you guys wanna lynch me, lynch me. But do it for REAL reasons not this mason crap. I still say if the masons live to LYLO it's insanely dangerous.

[Muerrto]

Ok so your case is Vamp was a bad player and then the masons thing. Anything else? Your vote is extreme OMGUS because I suggested testing one of you.

[Muerrto]

Yes, I did. I also like your partner jumping in after lurking to say he didn't read much but he doesn't like my posts. He couldn't have possibly read my long post if he's just skimming.

Can you list his actions? I thought he was scummy because he HAD NO actions. That doesn't quite apply to me.

sure thing pal, here goes

argh i dont want to be on rofl's side

unvote

this is scummy

No, this is newbie and horrible play

vote:forbidden light

i agree with the others points

this is scummy

Possibly but not when taken in context of his other posts

I also get the whole deal with Vamp. Seems really opprotunistic given his poting history.

FoS Vamp

.

More later.

lol i keep screwing myself over

this is scummy

Not even close

I like the Vig directing actually but I'd like it on IM because:

A. He's lurking as bad as Vamp and not contributing anything.

B. I wanna test the masons.

this is so scummy.
it says "my predecessor and this claimed mason are guilty of the same infraction. shoot him!"

No, it says, why are you gung ho about lynching a lurker when your partner is doing it too? If town can do it, how does it make it a scum tell when someone else does it? It's the same action whether your PM said town or scum, right? So if it's not a scum tell, how is it scummy?

One dead mason instead of the Vig possibly accidently hitting a power role randomly is a good trade

this is especially scummy, since instead of accidentally hitting a power role you'd like the vig to purposefully hit a power role

Mason's aren't power roles. You're townies who can PM. I'd much rather have a live cop/doctor/vig thanks. You've been spouting all game about how 'untouchable' you are and 'confirmed town' etc. If you are Mason, great, try and join the rest of us and play the game pretending you're NOT a mason. You know why?

Because being a mason DOES NOT make you automatiaclly right. It means you're not LYING, but it does NOT make your suspiscions any more correct than anyone else's. So stop acting like it does.

And as I said in my first post, the rest of the town needs to stop acting like it does too. He's not a mason/cop people. He got to speak with IM before the game even started, he has just as much information as we do. Stop acting like he has a clue what he's doing.

@muerrto: please respond to this point against your theory...

scum claiming masons wouldn't be so dumb if there weren't a serial killer in this open setup.

Gladly, I already did but I will again.

Why? Masons are simply townies who can PM. If I was mafia OR an SK there's no way I'd waste my kill on a mason instead of hunting a power role.

announcing in thread which mason you want vigged is a great way to let the scum know which one they won't be wasting a kill on (ie the other one) and convincing the vig to kill a mason is like the biggest gift you could possibly give the scum.

If you say so. Fine, kill either one of you, or don't whatever. Whether you're mason or not I say again you have no clue what the hell you're doing. Your vote is hopping around like a lunatic, you've pushed for Armlx all game and now suddenly pushing me, you've said all day that Vamp should be vigged but now I should be lynched? When exactly did that change?

*bolding mine of course

[Muerrto]

Do you really think that if they were fakeclaiming the real Masons wouldn't have counterclaimed them by now?

You can't post once a week if you're not correct when doing it. Real masons? You mean the ones in the first page that are 0/2? That means either 2 masons OR none.

Not trying to restart the mason debate but please get the facts straight before posting.

[Muerrto]

i would really rather more people come to the realization that muerrto is scum and help me lynch him.

Can you post some evidence? Some quotes? You're a mason dude, you have no power but the ability to PM. Stating you know who scum is period is retarded. arrogant, and the reason why you got on my nerves before I even posted.

[Muerrto]

I'm not saying I'm going to vig him; I'm saying that there are enough reasons as to why he probably won't live until tomorrow already (his claiming mason way too early, his being of little help to us, etc.) and his imminent death doesn't need to be sped up.

Was going to post a response to this but decided it'd help the scum too much. Can we stop discussing who's gonna get NK'd?

[Muerrto]

Wanting to lynch/vig a mason for the reason that he is not a powerrole makes no sense. If we want to avoid powerroles might as well no-lynch. Besides, we have a claimed vanilla (also a non-powerrole, and higher chance of being scum).

vote: Muerrto

How do I even respond to someone who lurks then comes back and doesn't read the thread?

Try again and I'll attempt to respond to you =p

[Muerrto]

Ugh...I can only hope no one is listening to any of your posts Rofl...

'It does make me awesome' and then a vote with no content and suggest to vig someone, something you said earlier was a BAD idea?

[Muerrto]

sc you should vig muerrto

I was asking ting =), but unless there are any objections I'll lynch Muerrto.

You'll hit a townie and I'll laugh if the masons are false. But do what you want. I'm not sure what kind of case anyone has on me other than I think testing the mason's is a good idea. And I still do...

Also, SC killing someone only proves he's either an SK OR a Vig, not a Vig.

Oh well, good luck town.

[Muerrto]

Um...well that loses any suspiscion I had of GS/Ting.

So SC killed Lowell and the mafia killed Sun Tzu?

[Muerrto]

You're kidding? IAUN probably said GS was a good target because GS was gunning for him so hard. The problem is, while GS was RIGHT his reasons were horrible so it didn't really matter.

SC, thank you not killing me with your vig action, but now you guys wanna waste a lynch on me?

Where's the case? IAUN didn't say 'don't vig Vamp' he said 'someone else is also good' and you all assume instead of redirecting to a target he'd rather have killed he was protecting me?

Also, can we see the unanimous decision that I was a good vig target?

I'm not sure how the hell to respond to this shoddy reasoning from some players I consider good. I'm dissappointed, and no that's not a plea to emotion.

What I'M gonna do is re-read IAUN's posts and see what he had to say about people as other people should be.

Oh, and

FoS: Fonz

for even thinking GS and IAUN were distancing. GS was ridiculously, stupidly plowing against IAUN. Distancing? C'mon.

[Muerrto]

So did anyone have a case on

me

and not Vamp?

[Muerrto]

So did anyone have a case on

me

and not Vamp?

translation: waaa i'm gonna get lynched even though i think i'm playing a great game

Translation: dude, you're a dick. Period. You've been an ass all game to everyone and I pray I never end up in a game with you again.

Being a mason does NOT make you right. I asked for a case, not your immature pre-prubescent crap.

If you don't HAVE a case, shut up and let the big boys talk.

I'm a townie. I'm vanilla. Believe that or don't.

I can't speak for Vamp's actions because I'm not Vamp.

He didn't do anything scummy he did everything noob because *shock* he's a noob.

He lurked, he voted whoever the town was voting. Can I explain his actions? No. Because I'm not him.

Now, if you can name something I'VE done that's scummy BESIDES the mason thing which is NOT scummy when you've got a case.

Otherwise you're all just lynching someone at random under weak pretenses and hurting the town's chances.

If someone feels like posting something intelligent I'll be glad to respond to it. But I won't be responding to this crap here any more. Rofl is either 10 or lonely and it's old, really old.

What you do, is take away from the enjoyment we're all sposed to be getting out of playing this GAME. Rule # 15. Try and follow it next time you play.

You guys can lynch me or replace me, your choice. And no that's not a plea to emotion, it's the straw breaking my back.

[Muerrto]

The mod's right, though. Both of them went too far here, and I don't like those posts at all. roflcopter has reduced himself to being childish, and Muertto... ugh xP Somebody other than the mod who can think right now explain how #805 is scummy.

FoS: roflcopter
Confirm vote: Muerrto

Actually can you explain why 805 is scummy instead of insinuating it is and asking others to do it?

[Muerrto]

For starters, you dismissed roflcopter's case (whatever he claims it is) as "immature pre-pubescent crap" and play the newbie card for Vamparific. When you replace somebody, you are held liable for your replacee's actions, whether you like them or not, and it is still your responsibility to defend them. Most of the people attacking Vamp were unaware of his alignment. You are. In fact, you have exactly the same alignment and role as he did. You must convince us that both Vamp's actions and your own are pro-town. Refusing to defend cases simply because you are not whoever you took over for is scummy.

Um...no. I can't speak for my predecessor's actions and expecting me to do so is ridiculous. Of course I played the newbie card he's NEW and his posts were horrible. I however have his role so I can only say he had no clue what he was doing.

As for Rofl, I did NOT dismiss his case as the above quote. I said his case is not only weak but non-existant. I dismissed his POST about 'waa' etc as the above quote which it is. HUGE difference.

[Muerrto]

EBWOP: I've also asked multiple times for some type of case on ME. Yes I have the same role as Vamp but you just asked me for a defense. How exactly do I defend when there's no case on ME? No one's giving me even an inkling of one.

[Muerrto]

muerrto, what do you think of the fonz?

I appreciate that he realises that these things I'm being called on are NOT scum tells. I can't defend Vamp, there is no defense. He lurked, placed random votes ith no reason, joined every wagon, he's NEW and had no clue what he was doing.

I still don't like the fact he tried to bring suspiscion on Ting/GS when IAUN turned out to be scum. What they were doing bordered on personal, there was no way they were distancing.

I also FoS'ed him for it already.

[Muerrto]

so you did.

do you think he's trying to make you his pet townie?

It's possible(nice change in posting btw, much better). If I was really convinced he was scum, yes. But really the only thing I have on him is his view that GS could've been distancing IAUN. I don't think that's possible.

The fact he's pushing Ting right now worries me as well since Ting=GS. But then again, no one agreed to my masons thing so I'm not one to talk about game theory being scum tells. If he legitimately thinks they were distancing then saying so is'nt a scum tell. And if he's not scum then he's simply stating again his opinion, that my posts aren't scum tells either.

He has however been pushing Ting pretty hard and I'd like to hear a case from him on GS(not Ting) and how he could've been distancing IAUN.

[Muerrto]

While I agree, the only knock against him is that he thinks they could've been distancing. I certainly can't throw stones in a glass house so I won't be voting him but I would like to see his case on GS, not Ting.

[Muerrto]

i should point out that you're waiting for a case against the replaced(gs) rather than replacee(ting), whilst simultaneously getting up in arms for a case made against the person you replaced(vamp), rather than the replacee(muerrto).

which is odd.

No, I'm saying Fonz's 'case' on Ting/GS is that GS could've been distancing IAUN. Since I've yet to see anything scummy from Ting I wanna see more of a case from Fonz on GS.

Asking Ting to defend GS's actions would be more like what people are asking me to do with Vamp.

[Muerrto]

Nothing today has made me change my opinion on Muerrto. Let's just lynch him?

Was no one else bothered by this line? 'Let's just hurry up and end the day with a mislynch already'. No one commented on it.

Also, you lurked for several days, tons of stuff was posted, and you came back with NO comment on any of it just 'let's lynch Muerrto'

And third, can you please post your OWN case on Vamp since he was 'proable scum'?

[Muerrto]

Was no one else bothered by this line? 'Let's just hurry up and end the day with a mislynch already'. No one commented on it.

I would have agreed if you hadn't tried to slip in the "mislynch" part. So close, yet so far.

Muerrto should know better then to run subtle appeals to emotion. This makes me want to consider voting him.

How is saying it's a mislynch an appeal to emotion? You're using the term inoccrectly, sorry. It's a mislynch because I'm town so put as such. Now would I do that as scum? Sure. As town? Of course. So how's it an appeal and how is it a tell either way?

You also refrained from commenting about it and merely commented on my reply.

To steal from Rofl:

@Armlx: What do you think of Silence?

[Muerrto]

So how's it an appeal and how is it a tell either way?

Its an appeal to emotion in that you are baselessly saying you are town, which plays off fear of a mislynch. Just saying you are town does not make it true.

I never expected it to. But in that situation it would be a mislynch so I stated as such. I'm not seeing your point here at all.

@Armlx: What do you think of Silence?

I don't see anything terrible. The low posting is on par with the last game I played with silence.

I'm not talking about lurking. I'm talking about lurking then popping in and basically saying 'why haven't we lynched him yet?' without contributing anything to the discussion or mentioning anything about what had happened in earlier posts.

@Armlx: How is what Silence is doing any different from what Vamp did?

[Muerrto]

I'm not talking about lurking. I'm talking about lurking then popping in and basically saying 'why haven't we lynched him yet?' without contributing anything to the discussion or mentioning anything about what had happened in earlier posts.

Where is silence doing that?

Are you kidding me? Did you read his post? Armlx, you play better than this, I'm starting to think rofl somehow may have been right about you. Silence popped in, mentioned nothing about any of the recent posts, and asked if we could just lynch me.

Only way to 'defend' is to explain why we should think that you are not likely to be scum. If Vamparific's behavior looks like probable scum, of course we want to lynch him. It's not like cases are some kind of magic.

Nothing today has made me change my opinion on Muerrto. Let's just lynch him?

@Armlx: How is what Silence is doing any different from what Vamp did?

Vamp was using BS logic or lack of logic to wagon hop. Silence is at least responding to issues at hand.

Um...can you quote that? As far as I can tell Vamp used NO logic. He just popped in and voted people. Where's the BS logic?

[Muerrto]

I'm convinced by the OrangePenguin post. Waiting on the VC to vote though.

If I'm lynched I want people to look closer at Armlx. He's a better player than this and I've never seen him go for a case this weak.

That's NOT an appeal to emotion I want people to look at those pushing my lynch so much for this horribly weak case. Period.

Go ahead and lynch me now if you want. I can't and WON'T defend Vamp, I'm not Vamp. Experienced players asking me to do so is a HUGE red flag in my eyes.

[Muerrto]

Shrug, still wanna see a case on me and when no one does it and I get lynched I wanna see people remember that.

You're not even giving me any sort of chance whatsoever. The whole thing is 'Vamp lurked, die'. That's retarded.

And the case about IAUN 'protecting' Vamp is complete crap and those pushing it know it.

Honestly(and you can call this an appeal to emotion if it makes you feel better) the whole thing kind of pisses me off. There's no case whatsoever on me, I can't possibly defend someone who's not me, and you guys have had ZERO discussion today besides lynching me. Not ONLY are you gonna mislynch but you're gonna go to day 3 with NO leads more than you had day 1.

When someone replaces, if their predecessor was scummy, fine, suspect them. But you can't railroad them on the previous person's actions. There's no possible way to defend against that. BRING A CASE ON ME! I've yet to see 1 point.

Anyway, final thoughts before I'm lynched:

Armlx IS better than this, period.

Silence is lurking and pushing a lynch from the background and Armlx is defending him.

Vote: Armlx

[Muerrto]

Oh and as for OP's post, I thought IAUN played town, period. So did everyone else apparently since no one but GS was bringing a case against him. I said alot of other people seemed town too. I was wrong about IAUN, it happens. But WIFOM or not, I don't blatantly protect my teammates like that. Nine times out of ten I BUS them, and you can meta that.

Also, if you look at OP's post he voted me for the mason vigging idea, not the IAUN stuff. Bad reason to vote, bad wagon, bad case. What else can I say.

[Muerrto]

Self meta is the ultimate WIFOM.

Lmao just make sure Armlx follows me to the noose. My point was that there's no way in hell I'd call out my partner like that protecting him. That's not WIFOM that's fact. Last time someone got me lynched on a 'distancing' case was Quagmire(scum) who ended up winning. Everyone knows distancing cases are weak and should never be the sole reason for a lynch. So far that's the only case on me. Ergo, no case. Quag got the newbies to listen to him then, you guys have no excuse.

[Muerrto]

EBWOP:
Quick re-read of Muerrto - his first few posts with regards to IAUN are certainly interesting.

Point b) is total crap, since Greasy Spot has never presented any case against me besides "too stupid to be a townie", which is in fact not a case at all.

Point c/d) is also crap, because as I said, I'm in favour of a Vamp vig as well.

Point a) is also wrong, for the record.

Also, "trying to undermine the majority" is not a scum tell. Anything else?

He's my new hero. The case at this point is extremely weak and being run by the person who voted him because he's 'too stupid to be a townie' which I called him out for earlier in my post. This wagon is bad.

Here's something for you to defend against. Explain why the points I raised against IAUN's "Hey lets vig GS" are so poor. IAUN is your hero because a short post was made against him and his defense was 'those points are crap' ??

Um.. no, he used the word 'crap' yes but those weren't his points. Point B is absolutely correct, GS never had ANY case on IAUN.

He started his case on him because IAUN was attacking GS. GS responded saying IAUN was 'too stupid to be town'. After that GS just continued to vote IAUN...repeatedly, in just about every single post. NO ONE suspected IAUN day 1. In fact a few were starting to suspect GS for his rapid shift off of IAUN, the one he voted like 6 times, to someone else at the drop of a hat(read back if you wanna see who, Blak? not sure, just remember he switched off and got heat for it). Part way through the day some people started joining GS on IAUN. I'd look at them as possible scum suspects doing your 'distancing' since IAUN never did anything scummy all day and GS HAD NO CASE on IAUN.

c/d) Don't remember the points but since I know my role I'd say he'd be just fine with a Vamp vigging, just as he stated he was. Assuming he's always lying because he's scum is a horrible assumption. Not everything scum says is distancing, some is simply being just fine getting a townie killed. Especially if said townie is under suspiscion already and he can get away with adding to it. However, since Vamp wasn't contributing and would get lynched eventually anyway, I'm sure he preferred another target to be killed.

And 'trying to undermine the majority' is NOT a scum tell. Going along with the crowd just because it IS the majority IS a scum tell.

All his points were dead on.

If you guys can hold off on a hammer I'll re-read tonight and see who started jumping on GS's weak case against IAUN and check their connections to others.

[Muerrto]

Greasy Spot would make an excellent vig kill.

This post is scummy because:
a) Trying to control the Vig's kill-choice is anti-town
b) Greasy Spot actually provided a bit of a case against AIUN
c) Like 4 people have already said Vamp would be an excellent vig
d) You suggesting otherwise is defending Vamp (see b)

Please explain to me why my four points are wrong (or three, if you wanna skip b).

Firstly though, IAUN never suggested Vamp would be a good vig. He was lying and you're lying by saying otherwise. If I'm wrong, please find where he says so.

Really?

Wait, so it's OK for people to direct the vig to kill Vamp, but not Greasy Spot?

By the way, I'm absolutely in favour of a Vamp vidging too, and have never said otherwise.

You sure I'm lying?

A) Name someone who hasn't tried to direct the vig kill this game please.

B) Please state GS's case on IAUN. His case was(and I QUOTE again)

vote: iamausername for being too stupid to be a townie.

C) So multiple people saying Vamp would be a good vig makes me a good lynch? First, I'm not Vamp, I'm just his role. Second, lynching is WAAAAY different from vigging. Third, town can't pick the wrong kill? Assuming I'm scum because some people want me dead? You gotta be kidding me.

D) Him suggesting vigging the guy hounding him and trying to get him lynched instead of the lurker is defending the lurker? Or is it attacking the guy TRYING TO GET HIM LYNCHED? I mean, wow, how weak a case can you get.

Everytime I respond to these posts it gets weaker and weaker.

[Muerrto]

I do admit that it seems unlike you to outwardly priase a scumbuddy, but I'm unconvinced that you felt IAUN's defense was worth the praise you gave it. Your reasoning is cloudy and I'm having a hard time believing you really thought what IAUN did was pro-town.

You summed up my only defense right there. I wouldn't do what you're claiming I did. I'm not that stupid. Your whole case is either 'Vamp did this' or 'IAUN's actions can be seen like this'. Do you even have a case on me or was I screwed before I even read the thread?

[Muerrto]

Do you even have a case on me or was I screwed before I even read the thread?

You must not replace into games often. D1 actions are the place to go to when players flip scum later. Sorry you can't defend yourself more. If you're town, then contribute as best you can by trying to find scum. You think Armix is scum - who else is a good candidate?

Wrong. D1 actions are SOMETHING not everything. Building a case like this is just like MacAvenger did to me a couple games back. He was scum, I was town. It's a horribly weak case and everyone knows that.

[Muerrto]

I'll re-read when I get a chance. Till then you guys

might

wanna actually try and do some scumhunting in the

off chance

i'm town

You have some lurkers. Some who pop in once every 3 pages or so. Some who haven't voiced an opinion one way or the other. And some who are still saying a case on Vamp = a case on Muerrto which doesn't take into account any playing style or ability and is therefore bogus.

I really don't care if I'm lynched except that it hurts the town. I DO care that you guys are wasting an entire day arguing over it and creating a smoke screen that the scum are hiding behind nicely.

At this point do 2 things for me: Assume I'm the lynch today AND assume I'm town since if I'm being lynched you'll know that soon enough.

Now...scum hunt.

[Muerrto]

Shrug I'm town. Try reading the case next time rather than blindly following people. Go town.

Quite unimpressed with how this lynch went down. No case + lurking predecessor = lynch? Not even close. Check the back trail and see who was pushing it and who was for it in the background. There's scum in both places.

Rofl hammered quickly before anyone else could speak. Still against testing the masons? If he flips scum I will laugh my ARSE off and I'll spam the post game with so many I told you so posts it'll be a new record for # of pages in a game.

Anyway, yeah, go town.

[Muerrto]

Rofl hammered quickly before anyone else could speak. Still against testing the masons? If he flips scum I will laugh my ARSE off and I'll spam the post game with so many I told you so posts it'll be a new record for # of pages in a game.

Again, not my job. If it comes down to lynch-or-lose, I'll consider, but not before then.

Shrug and I'll still laugh if I'm right.

[Muerrto]

I thought so. No comments on my post after I'm dead saying you're all wrong and I'm town?

And no one even once did what I asked and assumed I was town so they could do some real scum hunting.

Some real poor scumhunting this game. Anyway, good luck town.

[Muerrto]

Ditto, go town.

[Muerrto]

60 pages for a draw?! Lol nice.

@scum: Why leave SC alive till endgame?

GG guys, I was watching with interest the whole time.