Large Normal 225 | Creature Writes Shitty Flavor - Game over

[Nero Cain]

good thing creature is the mod this game or I'd be coming here to find 50 pages and not 7. Thank Mith.

[Nero Cain]

@ Wake, FL making random looking posts that make 0 sense is null since he'll do that regardless of alignment.

Honestly seeing as every game I've ever dealt with Masons was either me or someone elsa fake claiming it, I no longer take it seriously until one of them dies. But that's for another day I guess.

Hope everyone's havung a good day by the way.

the fake mason gambit/joke got old fast.

VOTE: MariaR

She will be either hidden scum or drive town off a cliff, perfect policy lynch

I think Maria is way more accurate than you.

more like scum trying to be townread for it

This is the vibe I'm getting

Lotta flailing

This was my first thought as well that its a dumb gambit from dumb town. I, however, do not buy into the "wouldn't do the same thing twice."

I mean, there's some merit to the "she's scum that is repeating a similar thing to get town read

but

i think it's unlikely town dolly pulls the same thing two games in a row as town with similar playerlists

is like a fallacy guy and it makes me insta hate the dolly wagon, regardless of how annoying she is.


let's kill expresso jet or virgo.

VOTE: expressojet

[Nero Cain]

But there are seven people here with five posts or less

Seven.

Statistically high chance of scum coasting under the radar while the vocal minority gets dumber

This is a decent point. You could prob just rando pl the group of lurkers in any given game and hit some scum.

on the other hand

scum like to push lurkers for exactly this reason-its an ez push.

You came out of your hole real quick once you were called out, though

I have to agree with this though. I still don't like you that much but I could maybe see you as town if Frank is scum.

You came out of your hole real quick once you were called out, though

Frank beetlejuiced hard, and I gut want to think it was town indicative, because it was like...too immediate

If anything it says he's been lurking and choosing not to post

this but I'm confused why you think this but you aren't scum reading him.

Also, I'll start serious posting when something actually serious happens.

cause you know it's not like anything but fluff has happened in the last 6 pages. Whenever you guys want to pl this I'm down.

[Nero Cain]

What is pennywishing?

[Nero Cain]

never said you were.

[Nero Cain]

I'm fine with Dolly from recent events

what are they?

[Nero Cain]

Why Virgo?

What about

For some reason I just can't seem to absorb anything happening in this game yet. It's frickin' weird

Is there a reason dolly is at L-4, are they being scummy?

makes you think that these posts are from town?

[Nero Cain]

+ 69

[Nero Cain]

VOTE: Nero

Why is he scum?

its just delayed OMGUS

[Nero Cain]

VOTE: JV

[Nero Cain]

To me that doesn't come across scummy and more ignorant and not reading the thread beyond recent discussion

Except that could be scummy behavior...

... Scummy or Lazy

Is JV usually lazy?

You are doing alot of fence-sitting this game. Is that normal for you?

[Nero Cain]

Also I found it interesting that Nero got 'aggressive' over my naked vote, wonder why

I mean, I had already cased you and was calling you scum. Was I supposed to leave my singular vote on jet 'cause a whole lot of good that will do. The fact you "naked voted" me before I got on an moved my voted has nothing to do with anything but I'll be vindicated after you flip scum anyways so w/e.

[Nero Cain]

I don't think they are, why do you think that?

[Nero Cain]

Their reaction to my vote was terrible imo

I have a question for you. I was scum reading you before your vote on me. I just chose to vote espresso over you. A wagon popped up on you. I should not have joined your wagon b/c?

Also, you are saying my reaction to you voting me was to vote you (although it wasn't) your reaction to me calling you scum was to vote me. How is your reaction any different then what you are claiming mine was?

[Nero Cain]

I think he comes off pretty genuine. Just noobtown who is flailing a bit due to RL issues.

I just think guy was lurking, got wagoned and then

ate

d that he was busy . Again, 160 and 215 doesn't come across as "I'm too busy to play" they come across as scum that was avoiding giving content. Virgo also lazily snuck on to the EZ Dolly wagon and thats also not town.

He's also not exactly new to mafia so

Except it's coming from town that has no idea what's going on

is kinda

of course, he's claiming that he was busy (and later depressed) but he's basically prod dodging and that's scum trying to come across as not a lurker. I also hate that I have to spend so much time on a simple layup but it's MS and its notoriously hard to lynch scum without a guilty and even with a guilty its sometimes hard :/

[Nero Cain]

vt

[Nero Cain]

vt

that was what JV claimed.

Wake claimed watcher.

[Nero Cain]

remind me where you want to lynch.

[Nero Cain]

I'm a bit meh on on the "Wake is scum trying to coast on a watcher claim." I haven't played with him in ages, has he done gambits like this as scum b4? But I agree with Frank here, lets not lynch Wake today.

If nothing interesting happens, a No Lynch could happen. Haven't had one of those in awhile. We could all do that.

On one hand I'm like "scum wouldn't say this" and on the other hand I'm kinda like "Well, its somewhat likely that JV gets lynched today and being scummy to switch the wagon off of him makes some sense."

a few other slots I wouldn't mind pushing a little bit either.

Who?

I'm hating how tight lipped RS is.

So I don't know if anyone can really get lynched at the moment besides maybe

Jet

this seems odd to me b/c other than an early Dolly wagon JV has been the only real wagon and no one has been calling Jet scum but me. So why do you think jet would get lynched?

Also, if you are so concerned about a no lynch why would you switch off of JV?

An Elsa, Jet, JV team seems almost too EZ but thats where my mind is at right now. Would also accept a lynch on RS.

[Nero Cain]

you could try to explain yourself instead of whining about not being understood.

[Nero Cain]

but I'm not even voting you. True, I did say that I was willing too if you're the only viable wagon/JV doesn't hang.

[Nero Cain]

I don’t think scumElsa gets pushed this early

this is not how town reads work.

[Nero Cain]

that's a nice soundbite.

I just don't think that "X is being pushed thus they must be town" is a good way to read anyone.

[Nero Cain]

Why? Gamestate dictactes and scum control the gamestate, and it’s up to town to see where and why it’s happening.

I don't really know what this is.

Elsa is getting pushed b/c he's saying dumb things and/or meta playing to his title. Both in this game and any game ppl that say dumb and suspicious things like he's doing is going to get push by both opportunist scum and town that thinks they are scum. Pushes are mainly null with the exception of some random push for no reason whatsoever.

[Nero Cain]

Its a very effective indicator though.

like this is probably just a troll post but I'm still going to reply seriously to it.

A player that's getting pushed by scum

is

somewhat likely to be town. I say somewhat b/c bussing/distancing has become so much more commonplace. The thing is that you haven't flipped yet and no scum has flipped yet.

[Nero Cain]

@Nero: you don’t think pushes with reasoning can be scummy?

sure I guess. But both alignments will make pushed with decent/good reasoning and that's why I said they are null but that's more game theory than anything.

[Nero Cain]

she's scummy

but you can also read my ISO on why JV is still scum.

[Nero Cain]

Ho

the fuck did you just call me?!?

[Nero Cain]

Eh, I'd rather you just tell me so I don't have to guess.

or you could stop being a waste of space and read.

[Nero Cain]

he's not even voting you. nothing you are saying even begins to reflect the events of this game and I'm starting to think you are really playing up that VI card.

JV is still scum that's scared to confront me.

Elsa or JV. Make it so ppl.

[Nero Cain]

I'm still going to want to lynch Elsa after JV flips scum.

[Nero Cain]

Everything he says makes me cringe

ditto

I like both waffles and pancakes and I don't care which one I get. Same thing applies with two ppl that are both scum reads.

but ok

VOTE: Elsa

[Nero Cain]

but I like both. let me have this.

[Nero Cain]

Also, I'm a town separator and my role separates two links roles if they are linked. Like masons and lovers etc. I used my n0 shot on Elsa thus him and FL are no longer masons.

[Nero Cain]

that does seem like it would be kinda neat?

[Nero Cain]

VOTE: JV

what a naked vote.

[Nero Cain]

If my choices are between Luv, Rabid and JV then I'd still want JV but would consolidate on Rabid.

[Nero Cain]

VOTE: JV

what a naked vote.

You know you're gonna look back after my flip yeah? Can everyone lynch this when I die? Thank ya

Why would I look back?

I assume you just typo'd bad and why?

I mean, I cased you in 290 and you responded in 322 but it wasn't until 349 until you start scumreading me. It's just a delayed OMGUS and there's like a shit ton of scum motivation in that. Then you "naked" voted me in 353 which doesn't even make a lick of sense. You then tried to claim that I was OMGUS voting you wich ignores that I was

ALREADY

scum reading you previous to my vote, So at this point, you are twisting facts to suit your own purpose.


I also do not like the fact that avoided 474 like the plague and I know why you did.

Basically what this boils down to is me not buying

Except it's coming from town that has no idea what's going on

All I see is scum motivation and that's what I think you'll flip.

[Nero Cain]

If JV were to be the lynch it would have already happened by now.

this is not how this works. He has buddies who are going to be less likely to vote him not to mention wrong/hesitant town. In a fairly recent large I had to tunnel scum for 100 pages b4 they were the d1 lynch. In that game scum FL also went to bat for his buddy so keep that in mind if Elsa flips scum.

[Nero Cain]

Given JV and LUV as the leading wagons,

Taking this too

Maybe you could like put a VC in it or something...

Seriously, I'm going to be offline shortly until EOD and I want to put my vote on a viable wagon.

So you knew who were the leading wagons but didn't vote there b/c there wasn't a current VC? this seems like so much bullshit.

[Nero Cain]

In fairness, Creature does need to be more frequent with VCs and if that fancy format is taking him to much time then he should just K,I,S.S.

[Nero Cain]

rc's upick? you and cheeky were scum together.

[Nero Cain]

oh yeah, it was skygazers game.

[Nero Cain]

I really hate that no one does shit until deadline on this site. but will not be around for deadline but I can be aroundish dor the next two or 3 hours.

VOTE: rabid

Since we aren't voting JV for some reason I'd consolidate there.

[Nero Cain]

Zote, do me a liquid, and vote Rabid.

I'm gonna ISO them before/if I do

Eh after doing some ISOing on the top two wagoned, I like this better

VOTE: Jackson

if only we had the votes.

[Nero Cain]

[post=jv]jv[/post]

[Nero Cain]

ugh

VOTE: jv

[Nero Cain]

it's like 3 in the morning

[Nero Cain]

good riddance.

[Nero Cain]

are you suggesting that he not out his result b/c that seems insanely dumb.

[Nero Cain]

have we all forgotten how bad Elsa's unvote was?

b/c I haven't

[post=Elsa]Elsa[/post]

[Nero Cain]

ugh

VOTE: elsa

[Nero Cain]

Well, you did put insurance on your boobs and that does seem a lil' odd...

[Nero Cain]

So I unvote a townie and now you wanna lynch me for it. Fun times.

scum do that like all the time so they look better

[Nero Cain]

Between 862 and 874 made you go, "hey this guy is town."

[Nero Cain]

uh huh

[Nero Cain]

So have you done anything at all for town or...?

I've been scumhunting. Nice pushback though.

[Nero Cain]

you know what would be epically awesome, imho, if we lynched Elsa @ exactly midnight tonight. (my timezone)

[Nero Cain]

So have you done anything at all for town or...?

I've been scumhunting.

Its a silly subjective question. Nothing but a pushback so I'm good with a lynch here.

[Nero Cain]

name-calling, how mature, But I don't see a question. Can you ask me again or requote it?

[Nero Cain]

b/c they are kinda

IIOA

y

and its silly that you are demanding answers from me despite not giving your own thoughts.

1. Asking for Amruns readlist is just a fetch quest. Stop being a total NPC.
2. (and 3) Is information fishing. Players are going to vote who the want/defend who they want. So fishing like that just comes off as scummy to me.

[Nero Cain]

or maybe he means it was weird that your alt answered for you. That was more silly than weird but w/e.

[Nero Cain]

b/c they are kinda

IIOA

y

and its silly that you are demanding answers from me despite not giving your own thoughts.

1. Asking for Amruns readlist is just a fetch quest. Stop being a total NPC.
2. (and 3) Is information fishing. Players are going to vote who the want/defend who they want. So fishing like that just comes off as scummy to me.

Also
2. I was waiting for a D1 Watcher claim results amd a D2 Watcher claim result. None of which I asked to claim but since they did they should have posted there results.

At the time we didn't know but know we know that the 1st claim dropped the ball on their nigjt action and the D2 claim was just for lulz.

So the Amrum wagon/info is the only real source of info we have to start sorting today.

I'm very confused here. Why are you responding like you are Elsa?

[Nero Cain]

b/c they are kinda

IIOA

y

and its silly that you are demanding answers from me despite not giving your own thoughts.

1. Asking for Amruns readlist is just a fetch quest. Stop being a total NPC.
2. (and 3) Is information fishing. Players are going to vote who the want/defend who they want. So fishing like that just comes off as scummy to me.

Should we ignore dead people's posts?

yes but also no. Yes, mafia can and will kill players that suspect them but scum also kill players as a red herring so we'll go the wrong people. Kills aren't this black and white thing.

Welcome to your first game of mafia.

What are your actual thoughts about Elsa.

Nero,
What do you think are the odds of Wake and EXpressojet being members of scum?

somewhat low.

I'm buying into Wake's watcher claim. I'm not super fond of the "Wake coasts" on the watcher claim. And I have like 0 interest in lynching the only claimed PR. I had suspected Espresso early on but that sorta waned but he's voting Elsa with me and I don't think he'd buss that early.

[Nero Cain]

I could see an active lurking scum Maria. Still think Elsa is scum so I'll sit there but I could consolidate on Maria.

[Nero Cain]

sorry, I was a little sick lately

[Nero Cain]

I don't think it's more likely for someone saying they want to vote someone "for now" to come from scum than it is from town.
Unless Rabid is considering it a scumslip, in which case I still don't see it.

it's really weird wording but I think I agree with you,

[Nero Cain]

Why should we not flip you?

[Nero Cain]

As a guy that has mislynched LUV at least a dozen times (exaggeration lul) I'll say that his behavior has been no different than our other games. I don't remember if I've ever played with a scum him before. Players like LUV , Maria and Dunn (although Maria might be more proactive as town) that have a minimalistic "style" and are mainly useless are going to likely play the same regardless of alignment.

RE Dunn being the target. Other than a tinfoil about Luv/Dunn being scum together, I think Dunn is a perfectly acceptable check and I kinda hate Maria continuing to push LUV based on that.

[Nero Cain]

luv got ran up, claimed invest with an inno on Dunn, Lynch is prob between you are Maria thought Elsa is still scum.

[Nero Cain]

Dolly did some stupid JK fakeclaim and Frank and her are kinda getting into it but I don't think she's scum.

[Nero Cain]

never realized that DL is so close. If Elsa wants to bus, let her but it prob means Maria is something expendable like a goon or a 1-shot.

VOTE: Maria

L-1 claim time.

[Nero Cain]

I’d rather force scum to kill me,

or get caught by a watcher on LUV.

you're going to get caught by a watcher?

[Nero Cain]

I'd do Elsa. Doubt Dolly is scum.

[Nero Cain]

like part of me wants to not lynch Maria now but its maybe not a great reason b/c it is WIFOM and then I could easily see her as active lurk scum.

[Nero Cain]

it's rabid and maria. Still think all these "derp" moments are fake as shit.

[Nero Cain]

like rabid claimed hood mates with Maria an HOUR ago. An Hour. And you really couldn't remember something from an hour ago?

[Nero Cain]

I'm open for lynching Elsa but I don't think we have the #'s.

[Nero Cain]

Dunn’s untouchable right now because LUV.

I was about to ask why and then I remembered the inno b/c I legit hated how he did squat all but whine about being called useless and then voted Elsa.

[Nero Cain]

VOTE: Maria

[Nero Cain]

god I hated that. mostly.

[Nero Cain]

I also hate that I can't just c&p creatures vc b/c i had wanted to check it and make sure but i'll just leave my vote on Maria I guess

[Nero Cain]

I have a doctors appointment tomorrow so I won't be staying up

[Nero Cain]

eh? I'm a simple man that likes simple things. TBH, Creature's VC does look good but you can't C&P it without some heavy editting and that's kinda a bummer.

[Nero Cain]

jesus fuck, wake

[Nero Cain]

I think most mods are cool with that though I could see stricter ones not wanting a bunch of pms before night

[Nero Cain]

Maria was scumreading me? I am shocked. SHOCKED I SAY!

dudette reads me like clockwork. I could be an IC and she'd still scumread me.

but that appeal to authority is gross.

[Nero Cain]

So if I had to choose anyone elsa left, I'd say Nero

how cum?

Nero is potentially deep wolfing here.

I'd have to be a wolf to deep wolf so no.

Nero's post on Flav was gross

What post was this?

[Nero Cain]

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/wiki/Alien

even though this is from another site we use the same role right? I have no clue what the indecisive mod does. Elsa is claiming he targeted Dunn n2 and Dunn is claiming he sent a message to Frank n2?

[Nero Cain]

Same with Nero and a couple others.

you can't sit there and bark at me for not being online to talk. Look, I get that you are super excited that you have a result but this is not how it works.

[Nero Cain]

WAKE IS LURKING! CLEARLY SCUM!



silly noob

[Nero Cain]

I’m actually novice

Whats that mod do?

What was the point in lying about getting an inno on Dunn?

but in no way do I buy him as a vig kill

if I was a vig I would kill him.

[Nero Cain]

im a UB. There's way to much town power which means someone is lying. Most likely Elsa.

[Nero Cain]

rabid too.

[Nero Cain]

FN
UB
neo
2x neighbors
watcher
alien


7 town prs? WTF is this set up

[Nero Cain]

that confirms her role, not alignment

[Nero Cain]

tbh, I didn't join the hood so mayhaps its not considered a pr like you say but it still seems like a funky set up

[Nero Cain]

yes b/c I'd fakeclaim something that i knew couldn't be true. Are you a moron or just a moron?

[Nero Cain]

then out it

[Nero Cain]

Setup is confirmed to be Town vs Mafia. Thank god

I don't think town vs. mafia means a traitor can't be in this setup.

[Nero Cain]

you guys are silly. Me, an experienced player, claimed a role that I can't possibly be.

vote:frank

this is scum that knows I'm flipping town. Gun to my head, Dolly is the other scum. Dolly just keeps rando calling me scum without any reason and I don't think thats town.

I knoe Espresso thinks she's town b/c Zote tunneled her but that's exactly why scum tunnel each other.

[Nero Cain]

are you willing to vote Dolly then?

[Nero Cain]

I had intentionally fake claimed a role that I couldn't possibly be and your reaction was

But as far as my reads go, Nero is still a TR.

and then

do we really have to do nero instead of espresso

so it just kinda looks like you were avoiding my wagon. I.e. scum that knew I was town.

[Nero Cain]

are you willing to vote Dolly then?

I'm not going to be your counter wagon.

of course, the reason that you are voting me now is that I "fucked up my claim" but why did you keep calling me scum before without engaging me?

[Nero Cain]

watcher enabler

[Nero Cain]

Iirc I said something to the effect that you have deep wolf potential.

I know but that's very vague and catch-all. You could make that claim about anyone.

[Nero Cain]

I was never a UB. I just wanted to see who jumped and who didn't so I could try to solve.

[Nero Cain]

i don't get any results

[Nero Cain]

I've already said that I liked Dolly and Franks reaction the least.

I can get on board a piss wagon as his game entrance was not very stellar.

[Nero Cain]

yes, those were my feelings. Scum defend town for the cred all the time.

[Nero Cain]

Also, apparently my reaction was a the same as someone else according to rabid.

ok? I don't know what this is.

[Nero Cain]

Ah yes, the "there's something EZ so let me turn my brain off"

[Nero Cain]

like anyone that thinks I'm scum that fake claimed UB when I knew it couldn't possibly work is dumb as rocks

but I mean, the american school system is pretty poor these days...

[Nero Cain]

just b/c its something you'd do doesn't mean I would.

[Nero Cain]

I mean, you'll be down an investigation role but w/e's man

[Nero Cain]

VOTE: vote the piss

[Nero Cain]

Why am I getting lynched?

[Nero Cain]

aw man, i wanted to say words before i got lynched but oh well

[Nero Cain]

I think this game was bonkers town sided and wonder why it was 15 players over 13

its been this way for a while now and the NRG have been cranking out townsided setups so town would win more often. That's not to say that town didn't play well and we (mostly me) didn't play very well.

[Nero Cain]

Also scum could have killed the key PRs or WIFOMedd Elsa into roleblocking the investigative PRs.

u sure are trying to defend this setup.

[Nero Cain]

But did a bad and assumed 4 scum.

We all assumed 4 scum b/c town had alot of power. I had actually thought Maria was a traitor (and later Elsa)

[Nero Cain]

my original n2 shot was Jet and maybe for a shitty reason we killed you instead.

[Nero Cain]

We killed Amrun n1 b/c I felt like she was the only decent town player and n1 shots are just a crapshot. We didn't kill Wake b/c we were worried about him being protection.

I knew I should have been doing the kills. I

knew

it. But like Zote sent in the n1 kill and he was doing this flavorish thing that was cute (imo) and so I just went with it and then on n2 when I sent in the kill it just kinda slipped my mind. That's my bad, honestly. But would it have really changed that much? If we still kill FL and I get guilted the setup goes to

tracker
goon

vs.

alien
neo
watcher turned IC
neighbor
FN
3x vt

They could have pushed the neighbor and whichever VTs don't get inno'd.

When Luv claimed invest without clarifying what type of invest he was my first thought was that he was a hider. In hindsight, this makes no sense b/c he didn't crumb n2 but yeah, that's what I thought and Aaron didn't correct me (not that I'm blaming him) so yeah. But yeah, that was a good gambit by Luv and a good action by Wake that night.

It's at this point I stopped caring. Neither I or Piss even bothered sending in a kill. Should I have replaced out? EH. Like I think it's considered an acceptable reason but I kinda feel like replacing out in a bad spot and putting someone else in a not-great situation is kinda immature and unfair to others. The idea that I claimed UB without knowing that it was a scum claim is dumb. I just kinda wanted to die (and make the watcher invalid) and maybe get piss some town cred.

If we had done better kills would we have won?

Like, let's assume that n1 and d2 plays out the same way it did.

tracker
goon
enabler

vs.


watcher
neighbor
neo
alien
fn
4x vt

If we shot the neo or alien or the watcher. Killing Elsa would have prob been the best kill that night and get a vt lynched

So @ n3 we are at

tracker
goon
enabler

vs.


watcher
neighbor
neo
fn
1 confirmed vt
2x vt

If we kill the neo and assume that wake watched him and thus I get guilted and get lynched the next day and piss and zote kill the ic that night then we'd go into d5

tracker
goon

vs.

neighbor
fn
1 confirmed vt
2x vt

there are 3 lynchables. If the scum team avoids the lynch and lets say they kill a VT and kill Jet that night then

tracker
goon

vs.

neighbor
fn
1x vt

they'd have to push the neighbor and the unconfirmed VT as the scumteam so it seems like Jett or Dunn would just be a kingmaker. Like the scum path to victory is there but it's very very tight.

[Nero Cain]

This is balanced, in

a way

. I don't think that games are balanced unless vts are 50% +1 and there are 6. So according to this setup 2 neighbors=1 vt. I mean neighbors maybe don't add that much town power and

sometimes

they can be a source of paranoia.

If scum had played perfectly I think we'd have a fighting chance and we clearly didn't.

[Nero Cain]

how so?

[Nero Cain]

that's why I thought there was a traitor until Frost reminded me that we have to be informed.

What are your thoughts on the setup, leaf?

[Nero Cain]

Lol I knew Nero was scum from d1

you only scum read me b/c I was pushing you as scum.

[Nero Cain]

the link is in 2117